Re: Biting the bullet?

[Ranjan Maitra]

Matthew,

Thank you very much! This was very helpful and a learning experience (and you 
are right, I copied stuff from files here and there and did Hail-Mary passes to 
see which worked, sorry. I don't really have a lot of time to learn all this.

Anyway, I decided to go with pdf-stapler. (Though Philip Stark did not respond 
to my suggestions, I think something like pdfsmelter or pdfforge or pdfblender 
pdfsynthesizer or pdfripper would have been more appropriate given that the 
software does much more than electronically staple pdf's.) 


> Don't use "master" as the version. This is 0.3.0, according to the
> setup.py and readme, but there's no corresponding release at
> . You might ask
> upstream to _make_ one — that's the easiest way. Failing that, you
> should treat this as a snapshot package — see guidelines
> 

I guess the so-called easiest way involves me writing to Phil. I have done 
that. Let us see what he says. 

> >  Release:%{?dist}
> 
> There should be at least integer here, before the %{?dist}. It might
> also include snapshot info — see again the guidelines above.
> 

I am not completely sure about this but this may become clearer once a decision 
is made on whether to go for the snapshot package or not.

Btw, I have also posted the PyPDF2.spec (since that is also essential to this 
package). (I started by copying and modifying the SuSE spec file and then 
changed stuff to go with your e-mail here. I am not sure if I got everything.)


$ fpaste PyPDF2.spec
Uploading (2.6KiB)...
http://ur1.ca/kx26j -> http://paste.fedoraproject.org/221361/43149204

Many thanks again!

Best wishes,
Ranjan


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Re: Biting the bullet?

[Joe Zeff]

On 05/12/2015 04:25 PM, Roger wrote:


I learned a long time ago to not upgrade for at least a month or more
after release so that the initial new bugs are diminished and I've had
time to read the lists for gotchas and difficulties.


Yup!  Me too.  And, I've been known to skip various versions because I 
saw too many problems on the support forums I follow.  The one I 
remember best was F10, which was getting reports of install/upgrade 
problems right up until it hit EOL.

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Re: Biting the bullet?

[Roger]

It's not the upgrading process that's the problem. It's that the newer
> >software tends to be broken in anything but the default configuration.
> >I upgraded my girlfriend's desktop to F21 and it's literally unusable
> >now.


I learned a long time ago to not upgrade for at least a month or more 
after release so that the initial new bugs are diminished and I've had 
time to read the lists for gotchas and difficulties.

In all the years since RedHat 6 I haven't come unstuck this way.
One thing, most noticeable on this list over the years is that some 
laptops don't like some parts of Linux. But having said that, running 2 
partitions has bailed me out "provided" that grub is not overwritten by 
the new install. Word of warning here. Protect grub.

Roger
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Re: an idea about upgrades

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Tue, 2015-05-12 at 12:18 -0700, Gordon Messmer wrote:
> On 05/12/2015 11:25 AM, Neal Becker wrote:
> >> It would be a great idea if Fedora would provide
> >> >a way to downgrade to the immediately previous release
> >> >(from which the upgrade was performed), if the user
> >> >decides (for some reason) to return to the previous
> >> >release. This would completely obviate the need to
> >> >do a backup, and restore
> >> >
> > I'm hoping that my f22 install into a btrfs subvol will do this for me.
> 
> ...and that's exactly what the "snapper" plugin for yum and dnf is 
> intended to do.  Before upgrades, a (btrfs, ext4 or thin provisioned 
> LVM) snapshot is created for the purpose of rollback.

I only see a plugin for dnf. Is there also one for yum?

poc

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Re: an idea about upgrades

[Joe Zeff]

On 05/12/2015 04:03 PM, Rick Stevens wrote:


To do this sort of thing, I'd HIGHLY recommend a full backup and a full
reinstall followed by a restore of the home directories and such the OP
is interested in. Believe me, this will help preserve the OP's sanity.


I'm not disagreeing with you.  In fact, if you'll look back on this 
thread, I started out making that exact point.

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Re: an idea about upgrades

[Rick Stevens]

On 05/12/2015 01:41 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:

On 05/12/2015 01:30 PM, Ranjan Maitra wrote:

Well, I was talking about reinstalling. There is no fedup for that.
Folks like the OP on F17 can not fedup (and have to reinstall for an
upgrade) from what I understood.


There's always preupgrade.  Unlike fedup, I've never had that fail, and
would have preferred not to be forced to switch from something that
always worked to something that always fails on one of my two boxes.


Yes, the OP could preupgrade from F17 to F18. From there I think s/he
could preupgrade to F19. Once there, s/he'd need to fedup to F20, then
fedup to F21.

The important thing here is that a quantum leap from F17 to F21 really
isn't possible. One needs to upgrade one level at a time (there are
times where one could skip a step, but they were usually fraught with
issues). Skipping up four levels:

a) has never been supported in any standard upgrade mechanism,
and

b) there have been a LOT of internal changes that make such
an upgrade a bad idea.

To do this sort of thing, I'd HIGHLY recommend a full backup and a full
reinstall followed by a restore of the home directories and such the OP
is interested in. Believe me, this will help preserve the OP's sanity.
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Re: Biting the bullet?

[Matthew Miller]

On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 09:22:21AM -0500, Ranjan Maitra wrote:
> http://ur1.ca/kckv7 -> http://paste.fedoraproject.org/221087/14400891

Some comments inline; these will save you some time with the package
review.

>  Name:   stapler

I think pdf-stapler is a fine choice here, or pdfstapler.
python-stapler might also be okay.

>  Version:master

Don't use "master" as the version. This is 0.3.0, according to the
setup.py and readme, but there's no corresponding release at
. You might ask
upstream to _make_ one — that's the easiest way. Failing that, you
should treat this as a snapshot package — see guidelines



>  Release:%{?dist}

There should be at least integer here, before the %{?dist}. It might
also include snapshot info — see again the guidelines above.

>  Summary:Python-based PDF toolkit alternative to obsoleted pdftk

I'd suggest having this be a descriptive of what it is, rather than
what it is an alternative to. Something like:

Summary: tool for manipulating PDF documents from the command line

>  Group:  Applications/System

This tag is no longer used and should be omitted, unless you're going
to build for EPEL5.

>  License:BSD
>  URL:https://github.com/hellerbarde/stapler
>  Source0:https://github.com/hellerbarde/stapler/archive/master.zip

See note on the source URL in my other message; in short, follow
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging:SourceURL#Github

>  BuildRoot:  %{_tmppath}/%{name}-%{version}%{release}-root-%(%{__id_u} -n)

Another tag that's no longer needed.

>  BuildArch:  noarch
>  BuildRequires:  python-devel,PyPDF2,python-setuptools

pick one (or both) of python2-devel or python3-devel. Ideally, if it
works with python3, use that, since there's a plan to migrate all of
Fedora to Python 3 as default.

>  Requires:   PyPDF2


[...]

>  Like pdftk, stapler is a command-line tool. If you would like to add
>  a GUI, compile it into a binary for your favorite platform, or
>  contribute anything else, feel free to fork and send me a pull
>  request.

"Me" is unclear. Probably just remove that sentence.


>  %prep
>  %setup -q

as noted, probably '%setup -q -n stapler-%{version}' (I forgot the
version macro in my last message; sorry!)

[...]

>  %install
>  rm -rf $RPM_BUILD_ROOT

This rm line isn't necessary anymore. (Again, except for old epel)


> #desktop-file-validate
> # %{buildroot}/%{_datadir}/applications/%{name}.desktop
> #%find_lang %{name}

No desktop file or translations are included — just remove these line.


> install -m 755 -d $RPM_BUILD_ROOT/%{_sbindir}
> ln -s ../bin/eject $RPM_BUILD_ROOT/%{_sbindir}
 
Uh, I assume these are copied from an example package you were
following. :)

But, to accomplish the rename, what you want here is:

mv $RPM_BUILD_ROOT/%{_bindir}/stapler $RPM_BUILD_ROOT/%{_bindir}/%{name}

>  %clean
>  rm -rf $RPM_BUILD_ROOT

This whole section not necessary for recent Fedora.


>  %files
>  %defattr(-,root,root,-)
>  %doc CONTRIBUTORS LICENSE

Make that

%doc README.md CONTRIBUTORS TODO
%license LICENSE

>  %{_bindir}/stapler

Make it 

%{_bindir}/%{name}

>  %{_sbindir}/*

^ nothing in sbindir... remove that.

>  %{python2_sitelib}/*

Better to do 

%{python2_sitelib}/staplelib/


>  %changelog
>  * Mon Feb 09 2015 stat.mai...@inbox.com
>  - initial packaging of 0.3 version

See the changelog formats allowed at
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging:Guidelines#Changelogs

Hope this helps!


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Re: Biting the bullet?

[Matthew Miller]

On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 10:19:39PM +0200, Suvayu Ali wrote:
> > I am sorry I do not quite understand. I presume that you mean that one 
> > should rename stapler (my packaged version) to something else. I tried 
> > doing this in the spec file. But it never worked because the spec file 
> > looks for that something else then. I could not figure out how to fix this 
> > so just created the file for my personal use.
> > If you or someone else would like to take a look, here it is:
> > fpaste pdf-stapler.spec 
> > Uploading (2.4KiB)...
> > http://ur1.ca/kckv7 -> http://paste.fedoraproject.org/221087/14400891
> Just rename the tarball to the new name and you are good.  The %{name}
> macro takes the value from the Name: field in the spec file.

Actually, please keep the upstream tarball name; renaming it shouldn't
be necessary. Also, the guidelines contain a recipe for source from
github: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging:SourceURL#Github


What you'll need is to provide the _original_ name to the %setup
macro. In this case, that'd be '%setup -q -n stapler'.


> If I recall correctly, Fedora packaging guidelines says the package name
> should be something like python-stapler.

It kind of depends. That is the case for python _modules_ — packages
intended to be used by other python programs. However, this is a
utility which happens to be written in Python — it doesn't need that
prefix (but you _could_ do that).


There a number of other issues in the spec file currently — I'll
address them separately.

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Wayland and display order (F21)

[Steven Stern]

Although my system isn't quite working with Wayland, I want to keep
playing with  it. How do I tell it to save a change in the order of the
displays? Right now, I have to use preferences -> displays with each
login.  With "regular Gnome", I used an xrandr commmand to order the
monitors.


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Re: Gonna be a little irritating again Sorry

[g]

On 05/12/2015 05:43 AM, Richard Z wrote:
> On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 01:20:59AM -0500, g wrote:
>> On 05/11/2015 09:12 AM, Glenn Holmer wrote:
>> <<>>
>>> Digital clock. The problem this causes for me is that if I add the
>>> short date display, the clock becomes too small unless I make the
>>> panel much taller than I would like. Without AM/PM, I don't think
>>> this would be a problem...
>>
>> instead of having panel horizontal, consider vertical along right
>> side of desktop.
>
> would love to have that as most monitors are insanely wide but so
> far in every release tested I had to resort to horizontal auto-hiding
> panels. There was always something that did not display/work
> acceptably in vertical panels.

are you talking about application/program icons or active window title?

i am taking this "off-list" because we are getting "off subject".

which might be a good idea before Matthew "drops by".


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g
.

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Re: an idea about upgrades

[M. Fioretti]

On 2015-05-12 21:50, Pete Travis wrote:

On May 12, 2015 11:54 AM, "jd1008"  wrote:
 >
 >
 > It would be a great idea if Fedora would provide
 > a way to downgrade to the immediately previous release
 > (from which the upgrade was performed), if the user
 > decides (for some reason) to return to the previous
 > release. This would completely obviate the need to
 > do a backup, and restore - especially for a 1TB or
 > more drives (I have a 4TB drive, for example).
 >
 > Cheers,
 > JD
 >
 > --

Any time you find yourself using phrases like "obviate the need for
backup" you should take a step back and rethink the situation.
The only thing that truly makes backups superfluous is exclusively
disposable data.


Pete beat me to this. There may be other valid reasons to have something
like this, but "completely obviate the need to do a backup" is...
terrible. What if the "way to downgrade" has a bug that wipes out
your data? Come on!

Marco



--Pete


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Re: an idea about upgrades

[Ranjan Maitra]

>  where no such issue exists.
> >>> Well, much of the concerns about upgrading/reinstalling are about "losing 
> >>> data". I have always had a separate /home partition and just mounted it 
> >>> unformatted and never noticed a difference from one install to the other 
> >>> (since the days of Fedora Core 1). If you do not have a separate mount, 
> >>> installing does involve a huge amount of time. Hence the suggestion for 
> >>> default behaviour above.
> >>>
> >>> Ranjan
> >>>
> >>>
> >> Har!
> >> Losing which data??
> >> fedup has not been know to destroy any "precious" data.
> >> Likewise, "fedown" !!
> > Well, I was talking about reinstalling. There is no fedup for that. Folks 
> > like the OP on F17 can not fedup (and have to reinstall for an upgrade) 
> > from what I understood.
> >
> > Ranjan
> >
> My thread said nothing about reinstalling.

Well, I was assuming that all this bubbled up in the context of the OP on 
another thread running F17 and not wanting to upgrade (which for him is really 
a reinstall). In any case, my suggested approach would help even when you are 
upgrading or performing the non-existent downgrade -- because that is not 
failsafe, and if things fail, often installing afresh is the only option. That 
said, I am not disavowing the importance of backups.

Ranjan


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Re: Cannot find combination.hpp in Fedora boost

[Suvayu Ali]

On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 11:06:40AM -0700, Susi Lehtola wrote:
> On 05/12/2015 12:08 AM, Paul Smith wrote:
> >Dear All,
> >
> >I have installed Boost with
> >
> >yum install boost-devel
> >
> >However, I cannot find
> >
> >combination.hpp.
> >
> >Could you please help me?
> 
> I don't think it's even part of Boost nowadays.

Indeed, it's not in the latest boost.  See:

http://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_58_0/libs/algorithm/doc/html/index.html
https://github.com/boostorg/algorithm

Cheers,

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Re: an idea about upgrades

[Joe Zeff]

On 05/12/2015 01:30 PM, Ranjan Maitra wrote:

Well, I was talking about reinstalling. There is no fedup for that. Folks like 
the OP on F17 can not fedup (and have to reinstall for an upgrade) from what I 
understood.


There's always preupgrade.  Unlike fedup, I've never had that fail, and 
would have preferred not to be forced to switch from something that 
always worked to something that always fails on one of my two boxes.

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Re: Biting the bullet?

[Ranjan Maitra]

> 
> Just rename the tarball to the new name and you are good.  The %{name}
> macro takes the value from the Name: field in the spec file.
> 
> If I recall correctly, Fedora packaging guidelines says the package name
> should be something like python-stapler.

Are you sure? It would make more sense to call it pdf-stapler or something 
similar to specify its utility. After all, this is not going to be used as a 
library. 

Is this considered to be a python module? I was thinking that it is more like 
an application, such as batti.


> > > If you submit it, please post the BZ id here, I would like to follow it.
> > > In the meantime, could you point me to the home page?  I found this:
> > > https://github.com/hellerbarde/stapler/tree/master, is this correct?
> > 
> > Yes this is correct.
> > 
> > I even wrote to the author Philip Stark asking if he would mind changing 
> > the name to avoid conflicts with this other stapler. As an author and user 
> > of software, I feel that it is useful to have clearly defined names. 
> > (Besides, the name "stapler" does not quite do justice to the full 
> > capabilities of the software.) Anyway, he said he would if I came up with a 
> > good name so I suggested a bunch, but he never responded after that.
> 
> Hmm, are you sure?  The readme in the repo explicitly states that it is
> a fork of the version written by Philip Stark, and this one is written
> by Fred Wenzel.

Yes, I have talked to both. (Btw, Philip Stark **is** hellerbade.) The forks 
have now been merged back (but for one issue) according to Fred Wenzel. 

> > Btw, you will need PyPDF2 for which I have a working rpm (again a personal 
> > copy, no naming issues there) which I can provide to you. 
> > 
> > How do I submit this PyPDF2 to BZ?
> 
> Just create a bug report as a review request.
> 
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Package_Review_Process
> 

I read somewhere that I have to do some GPG signing? This does not appear to be 
on this webpage above. Also, can the files be submitted to BZ itself or does 
this have to be loaded somewhere else?


Ranjan


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Re: an idea about upgrades

[jd1008]

On 05/12/2015 02:30 PM, Ranjan Maitra wrote:

On Tue, 12 May 2015 14:10:19 -0600 jd1008  wrote:



On 05/12/2015 01:58 PM, Ranjan Maitra wrote:

On Tue, 12 May 2015 13:37:47 -0600 jd1008  wrote:


On 05/12/2015 01:23 PM, Rick Stevens wrote:

On 05/12/2015 11:52 AM, jd1008 wrote:

On 05/12/2015 12:26 PM, Ranjan Maitra wrote:

On Tue, 12 May 2015 11:53:38 -0600 jd1008  wrote:


It would be a great idea if Fedora would provide
a way to downgrade to the immediately previous release
(from which the upgrade was performed), if the user
decides (for some reason) to return to the previous
release. This would completely obviate the need to
do a backup, and restore - especially for a 1TB or
more drives (I have a 4TB drive, for example).

Also, and regardless, the default F setup should involve separate
partitions for /home and /usr/local in addition to / and then this
problem would not be a major issue.

Ranjan

You are making a universal assumption, which would not hold true
for most people.

Enforcing any rigid partitioning scheme is going to cause problems as
it won't (and can't) cover every possible scenario. We've already had a
huge flap about using a RAMdisk for /tmp (and dedicating 50% of your
RAM for it). This has caused MANY utilities to misbehave because they
were using /tmp for temporary files (as they should have) and it would
fill up because it was so damned tiny. Fortunately you can disable this
bit of lunacy and change /tmp back to a disk-based filesystem.

The unification of /usr/[s]bin with the root filesystem is another
biggie that's caused huge amounts of heartburn for admins. There's no
easy way around that one other than having a really big / partition to
hold everything. This one isn't as easy to crack.

Other than that unification thing, all you can do is make
recommendations as to partitioning and layout. Everyone's workload is
likely to be a bit different so "one size doesn't fit all".

Fedup does NO partitioning of any kind, at least none that I know of.
It simply makes use of the existing partition.
It does not modify directories like /home or /opt  etc.
So, it makes no difference if such directories are on
separate partitions. Someone tried ot make an issue
where no such issue exists.

Well, much of the concerns about upgrading/reinstalling are about "losing 
data". I have always had a separate /home partition and just mounted it unformatted 
and never noticed a difference from one install to the other (since the days of Fedora 
Core 1). If you do not have a separate mount, installing does involve a huge amount of 
time. Hence the suggestion for default behaviour above.

Ranjan



Har!
Losing which data??
fedup has not been know to destroy any "precious" data.
Likewise, "fedown" !!

Well, I was talking about reinstalling. There is no fedup for that. Folks like 
the OP on F17 can not fedup (and have to reinstall for an upgrade) from what I 
understood.

Ranjan


My thread said nothing about reinstalling.

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Re: an idea about upgrades

[Ranjan Maitra]

On Tue, 12 May 2015 14:10:19 -0600 jd1008  wrote:

> 
> 
> On 05/12/2015 01:58 PM, Ranjan Maitra wrote:
> > On Tue, 12 May 2015 13:37:47 -0600 jd1008  wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> On 05/12/2015 01:23 PM, Rick Stevens wrote:
> >>> On 05/12/2015 11:52 AM, jd1008 wrote:
> 
>  On 05/12/2015 12:26 PM, Ranjan Maitra wrote:
> > On Tue, 12 May 2015 11:53:38 -0600 jd1008  wrote:
> >
> >> It would be a great idea if Fedora would provide
> >> a way to downgrade to the immediately previous release
> >> (from which the upgrade was performed), if the user
> >> decides (for some reason) to return to the previous
> >> release. This would completely obviate the need to
> >> do a backup, and restore - especially for a 1TB or
> >> more drives (I have a 4TB drive, for example).
> > Also, and regardless, the default F setup should involve separate
> > partitions for /home and /usr/local in addition to / and then this
> > problem would not be a major issue.
> >
> > Ranjan
>  You are making a universal assumption, which would not hold true
>  for most people.
> >>> Enforcing any rigid partitioning scheme is going to cause problems as
> >>> it won't (and can't) cover every possible scenario. We've already had a
> >>> huge flap about using a RAMdisk for /tmp (and dedicating 50% of your
> >>> RAM for it). This has caused MANY utilities to misbehave because they
> >>> were using /tmp for temporary files (as they should have) and it would
> >>> fill up because it was so damned tiny. Fortunately you can disable this
> >>> bit of lunacy and change /tmp back to a disk-based filesystem.
> >>>
> >>> The unification of /usr/[s]bin with the root filesystem is another
> >>> biggie that's caused huge amounts of heartburn for admins. There's no
> >>> easy way around that one other than having a really big / partition to
> >>> hold everything. This one isn't as easy to crack.
> >>>
> >>> Other than that unification thing, all you can do is make
> >>> recommendations as to partitioning and layout. Everyone's workload is
> >>> likely to be a bit different so "one size doesn't fit all".
> >> Fedup does NO partitioning of any kind, at least none that I know of.
> >> It simply makes use of the existing partition.
> >> It does not modify directories like /home or /opt  etc.
> >> So, it makes no difference if such directories are on
> >> separate partitions. Someone tried ot make an issue
> >> where no such issue exists.
> > Well, much of the concerns about upgrading/reinstalling are about "losing 
> > data". I have always had a separate /home partition and just mounted it 
> > unformatted and never noticed a difference from one install to the other 
> > (since the days of Fedora Core 1). If you do not have a separate mount, 
> > installing does involve a huge amount of time. Hence the suggestion for 
> > default behaviour above.
> >
> > Ranjan
> >
> >
> Har!
> Losing which data??
> fedup has not been know to destroy any "precious" data.
> Likewise, "fedown" !!

Well, I was talking about reinstalling. There is no fedup for that. Folks like 
the OP on F17 can not fedup (and have to reinstall for an upgrade) from what I 
understood.

Ranjan


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Re: Biting the bullet?

[Suvayu Ali]

On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 09:22:21AM -0500, Ranjan Maitra wrote:
> > That is trivial to deal with.  There are many packages in fedora which
> > are renamed to meet packaging guidelines (e.g. many of the python-* or
> > perl-* packages).  I encourage you to submit it for review.
> 
> I am sorry I do not quite understand. I presume that you mean that one should 
> rename stapler (my packaged version) to something else. I tried doing this in 
> the spec file. But it never worked because the spec file looks for that 
> something else then. I could not figure out how to fix this so just created 
> the file for my personal use.
> 
> If you or someone else would like to take a look, here it is:
> 
> fpaste pdf-stapler.spec 
> Uploading (2.4KiB)...
> http://ur1.ca/kckv7 -> http://paste.fedoraproject.org/221087/14400891

Just rename the tarball to the new name and you are good.  The %{name}
macro takes the value from the Name: field in the spec file.

If I recall correctly, Fedora packaging guidelines says the package name
should be something like python-stapler.

> > If you submit it, please post the BZ id here, I would like to follow it.
> > In the meantime, could you point me to the home page?  I found this:
> > https://github.com/hellerbarde/stapler/tree/master, is this correct?
> 
> Yes this is correct.
> 
> I even wrote to the author Philip Stark asking if he would mind changing the 
> name to avoid conflicts with this other stapler. As an author and user of 
> software, I feel that it is useful to have clearly defined names. (Besides, 
> the name "stapler" does not quite do justice to the full capabilities of the 
> software.) Anyway, he said he would if I came up with a good name so I 
> suggested a bunch, but he never responded after that.

Hmm, are you sure?  The readme in the repo explicitly states that it is
a fork of the version written by Philip Stark, and this one is written
by Fred Wenzel.

  Philip Stark decided to look for an alternative and found pypdf, a PDF
  library written in pure Python. He couldn't find a tool which actually
  used the library, so he started writing his own.
  
  This version of stapler is Fred Wenzel's fork of the project, with a
  completely refactored source code, tests, and added functionality.

> Btw, you will need PyPDF2 for which I have a working rpm (again a personal 
> copy, no naming issues there) which I can provide to you. 
> 
> How do I submit this PyPDF2 to BZ?

Just create a bug report as a review request.

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Package_Review_Process

Cheers,

-- 
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Re: an idea about upgrades

[jd1008]

On 05/12/2015 01:58 PM, Ranjan Maitra wrote:

On Tue, 12 May 2015 13:37:47 -0600 jd1008  wrote:



On 05/12/2015 01:23 PM, Rick Stevens wrote:

On 05/12/2015 11:52 AM, jd1008 wrote:


On 05/12/2015 12:26 PM, Ranjan Maitra wrote:

On Tue, 12 May 2015 11:53:38 -0600 jd1008  wrote:


It would be a great idea if Fedora would provide
a way to downgrade to the immediately previous release
(from which the upgrade was performed), if the user
decides (for some reason) to return to the previous
release. This would completely obviate the need to
do a backup, and restore - especially for a 1TB or
more drives (I have a 4TB drive, for example).

Also, and regardless, the default F setup should involve separate
partitions for /home and /usr/local in addition to / and then this
problem would not be a major issue.

Ranjan

You are making a universal assumption, which would not hold true
for most people.

Enforcing any rigid partitioning scheme is going to cause problems as
it won't (and can't) cover every possible scenario. We've already had a
huge flap about using a RAMdisk for /tmp (and dedicating 50% of your
RAM for it). This has caused MANY utilities to misbehave because they
were using /tmp for temporary files (as they should have) and it would
fill up because it was so damned tiny. Fortunately you can disable this
bit of lunacy and change /tmp back to a disk-based filesystem.

The unification of /usr/[s]bin with the root filesystem is another
biggie that's caused huge amounts of heartburn for admins. There's no
easy way around that one other than having a really big / partition to
hold everything. This one isn't as easy to crack.

Other than that unification thing, all you can do is make
recommendations as to partitioning and layout. Everyone's workload is
likely to be a bit different so "one size doesn't fit all".

Fedup does NO partitioning of any kind, at least none that I know of.
It simply makes use of the existing partition.
It does not modify directories like /home or /opt  etc.
So, it makes no difference if such directories are on
separate partitions. Someone tried ot make an issue
where no such issue exists.

Well, much of the concerns about upgrading/reinstalling are about "losing 
data". I have always had a separate /home partition and just mounted it unformatted 
and never noticed a difference from one install to the other (since the days of Fedora 
Core 1). If you do not have a separate mount, installing does involve a huge amount of 
time. Hence the suggestion for default behaviour above.

Ranjan



Har!
Losing which data??
fedup has not been know to destroy any "precious" data.
Likewise, "fedown" !!
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Re: Biting the bullet?

[Michael Hennebry]

On Mon, 11 May 2015, Rolf Turner wrote:


I am currently running Fedora 17.  Which is of course antediluvian. But


The last version I succesfully installed was F17.

everything I have seen on this list with respect to upgrading terrifies 
me.  Disasters seem to lurk everywhere and I haven't the skills to cope 
with disasters.  Nor do I have access to any support in respect of Fedora.


I've never used FedUP, so do not know how reliable it is.

So, if you will bear with me, I'd like to start off with a preliminary 
question:


The seeming necessity for upgrading arises from a pressing need to 
upgrade "R" to version 3.2.0.  When I try to build this version I get a 
load of error messages (basically coming from gcc I think) like unto:



connections.o: In function `gzcon_write':
/home/rolf/Desktop/Rinst/R-3.2.0/src/main/connections.c:5469: undefined 

reference to `deflate'


Absent an upgrade, you will need to chase
down the undefined references and define them.
The source might have suggestions.

zip uses deflate.  Its source might be useful.

Given that the answer to my preliminary question is "No", can anyone be 
so kind as to provide me with a *recipe* for upgrading, expressed in 
simple-minded terms that I can understand?  Something of the form:


FedUp appears to be an answer.
I would need to trust it a lot to use it on an irreplaceable installation.

Copy /home and /etc to external storage.
From a live disk, make the partitions that you will need later.
Put empty filesystems on them.
If /home is not already a separate partition, make it so:
From a live disk:
mount F17's / read-only as /F17-slash
mount a partition with an empty filesystem as /home-new
cd /F17-slash/home ; cp -a  * .[^.]* ..?*  /home-new
To make F17 use it, would require editing /F17-slash/etc/fstab
/F17-slash would have to be remounted writeable
Boot the install disk.
Tell anaconda you want a custom install.
Do not tell it to format any partitions.
/ and /var should be separate, previously empty partitions.
/home should be your /home partition.

If you are lucky, all your ~/.configuration-whatever
files will still be useable by their respective applications.

If you run into trouble with global configuarations,
the contents of the old /etc might be some help.

--
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"SCSI is NOT magic. There are *fundamental technical
reasons* why it is necessary to sacrifice a young
goat to your SCSI chain now and then."   --   John Woods
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Re: an idea about upgrades

[Ranjan Maitra]

On Tue, 12 May 2015 13:37:47 -0600 jd1008  wrote:

> 
> 
> On 05/12/2015 01:23 PM, Rick Stevens wrote:
> > On 05/12/2015 11:52 AM, jd1008 wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> On 05/12/2015 12:26 PM, Ranjan Maitra wrote:
> >>> On Tue, 12 May 2015 11:53:38 -0600 jd1008  wrote:
> >>>
>  It would be a great idea if Fedora would provide
>  a way to downgrade to the immediately previous release
>  (from which the upgrade was performed), if the user
>  decides (for some reason) to return to the previous
>  release. This would completely obviate the need to
>  do a backup, and restore - especially for a 1TB or
>  more drives (I have a 4TB drive, for example).
> >>> Also, and regardless, the default F setup should involve separate
> >>> partitions for /home and /usr/local in addition to / and then this
> >>> problem would not be a major issue.
> >>>
> >>> Ranjan
> >> You are making a universal assumption, which would not hold true
> >> for most people.
> >
> > Enforcing any rigid partitioning scheme is going to cause problems as
> > it won't (and can't) cover every possible scenario. We've already had a
> > huge flap about using a RAMdisk for /tmp (and dedicating 50% of your
> > RAM for it). This has caused MANY utilities to misbehave because they
> > were using /tmp for temporary files (as they should have) and it would
> > fill up because it was so damned tiny. Fortunately you can disable this
> > bit of lunacy and change /tmp back to a disk-based filesystem.
> >
> > The unification of /usr/[s]bin with the root filesystem is another
> > biggie that's caused huge amounts of heartburn for admins. There's no
> > easy way around that one other than having a really big / partition to
> > hold everything. This one isn't as easy to crack.
> >
> > Other than that unification thing, all you can do is make
> > recommendations as to partitioning and layout. Everyone's workload is
> > likely to be a bit different so "one size doesn't fit all".
> Fedup does NO partitioning of any kind, at least none that I know of.
> It simply makes use of the existing partition.
> It does not modify directories like /home or /opt  etc.
> So, it makes no difference if such directories are on
> separate partitions. Someone tried ot make an issue
> where no such issue exists.

Well, much of the concerns about upgrading/reinstalling are about "losing 
data". I have always had a separate /home partition and just mounted it 
unformatted and never noticed a difference from one install to the other (since 
the days of Fedora Core 1). If you do not have a separate mount, installing 
does involve a huge amount of time. Hence the suggestion for default behaviour 
above. 

Ranjan


FREE 3D MARINE AQUARIUM SCREENSAVER - Watch dolphins, sharks & orcas on your 
desktop!
Check it out at http://www.inbox.com/marineaquarium


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Re: an idea about upgrades

[Pete Travis]

On May 12, 2015 11:54 AM, "jd1008"  wrote:
>
>
> It would be a great idea if Fedora would provide
> a way to downgrade to the immediately previous release
> (from which the upgrade was performed), if the user
> decides (for some reason) to return to the previous
> release. This would completely obviate the need to
> do a backup, and restore - especially for a 1TB or
> more drives (I have a 4TB drive, for example).
>
> Cheers,
> JD
>
> --

Any time you find yourself using phrases like "obviate the need for backup"
you should take a step back and rethink the situation.  The only thing that
truly makes backups superfluous is exclusively disposable data.

--Pete
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Re: an idea about upgrades

[jd1008]

On 05/12/2015 01:29 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:

On 05/12/2015 12:12 PM, Steven Stern wrote:

The opposite of "fedup"... "UpChuck", perhaps?


Well, we already have the unofficial fedora-upgrade, so 
fedora-downgrade would make sense.


:)

What would be the antonym of fedup ?

How does fedown  sound?

I don't like feddown - too much typing :)
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Re: an idea about upgrades

[jd1008]

On 05/12/2015 01:23 PM, Rick Stevens wrote:

On 05/12/2015 11:52 AM, jd1008 wrote:



On 05/12/2015 12:26 PM, Ranjan Maitra wrote:

On Tue, 12 May 2015 11:53:38 -0600 jd1008  wrote:


It would be a great idea if Fedora would provide
a way to downgrade to the immediately previous release
(from which the upgrade was performed), if the user
decides (for some reason) to return to the previous
release. This would completely obviate the need to
do a backup, and restore - especially for a 1TB or
more drives (I have a 4TB drive, for example).

Also, and regardless, the default F setup should involve separate
partitions for /home and /usr/local in addition to / and then this
problem would not be a major issue.

Ranjan

You are making a universal assumption, which would not hold true
for most people.


Enforcing any rigid partitioning scheme is going to cause problems as
it won't (and can't) cover every possible scenario. We've already had a
huge flap about using a RAMdisk for /tmp (and dedicating 50% of your
RAM for it). This has caused MANY utilities to misbehave because they
were using /tmp for temporary files (as they should have) and it would
fill up because it was so damned tiny. Fortunately you can disable this
bit of lunacy and change /tmp back to a disk-based filesystem.

The unification of /usr/[s]bin with the root filesystem is another
biggie that's caused huge amounts of heartburn for admins. There's no
easy way around that one other than having a really big / partition to
hold everything. This one isn't as easy to crack.

Other than that unification thing, all you can do is make
recommendations as to partitioning and layout. Everyone's workload is
likely to be a bit different so "one size doesn't fit all".

Fedup does NO partitioning of any kind, at least none that I know of.
It simply makes use of the existing partition.
It does not modify directories like /home or /opt  etc.
So, it makes no difference if such directories are on
separate partitions. Someone tried ot make an issue
where no such issue exists.
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Re: an idea about upgrades

[Joe Zeff]

On 05/12/2015 12:12 PM, Steven Stern wrote:

The opposite of "fedup"... "UpChuck", perhaps?


Well, we already have the unofficial fedora-upgrade, so fedora-downgrade 
would make sense.

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Re: an idea about upgrades

[Rick Stevens]

On 05/12/2015 11:52 AM, jd1008 wrote:



On 05/12/2015 12:26 PM, Ranjan Maitra wrote:

On Tue, 12 May 2015 11:53:38 -0600 jd1008  wrote:


It would be a great idea if Fedora would provide
a way to downgrade to the immediately previous release
(from which the upgrade was performed), if the user
decides (for some reason) to return to the previous
release. This would completely obviate the need to
do a backup, and restore - especially for a 1TB or
more drives (I have a 4TB drive, for example).

Also, and regardless, the default F setup should involve separate
partitions for /home and /usr/local in addition to / and then this
problem would not be a major issue.

Ranjan

You are making a universal assumption, which would not hold true
for most people.


Enforcing any rigid partitioning scheme is going to cause problems as
it won't (and can't) cover every possible scenario. We've already had a
huge flap about using a RAMdisk for /tmp (and dedicating 50% of your
RAM for it). This has caused MANY utilities to misbehave because they
were using /tmp for temporary files (as they should have) and it would
fill up because it was so damned tiny. Fortunately you can disable this
bit of lunacy and change /tmp back to a disk-based filesystem.

The unification of /usr/[s]bin with the root filesystem is another
biggie that's caused huge amounts of heartburn for admins. There's no
easy way around that one other than having a really big / partition to
hold everything. This one isn't as easy to crack.

Other than that unification thing, all you can do is make
recommendations as to partitioning and layout. Everyone's workload is
likely to be a bit different so "one size doesn't fit all".
--
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Re: an idea about upgrades

[Gordon Messmer]

On 05/12/2015 11:25 AM, Neal Becker wrote:

It would be a great idea if Fedora would provide
>a way to downgrade to the immediately previous release
>(from which the upgrade was performed), if the user
>decides (for some reason) to return to the previous
>release. This would completely obviate the need to
>do a backup, and restore
>

I'm hoping that my f22 install into a btrfs subvol will do this for me.


...and that's exactly what the "snapper" plugin for yum and dnf is 
intended to do.  Before upgrades, a (btrfs, ext4 or thin provisioned 
LVM) snapshot is created for the purpose of rollback.

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Re: an idea about upgrades

[Steven Stern]

On 05/12/2015 01:47 PM, jd1008 wrote:
> 
> 
> On 05/12/2015 11:59 AM, Ronal B Morse wrote:
>> On 05/12/2015 11:53 AM, jd1008 wrote:
>>>
>>> It would be a great idea if Fedora would provide
>>> a way to downgrade to the immediately previous release
>>> (from which the upgrade was performed), if the user
>>> decides (for some reason) to return to the previous
>>> release. This would completely obviate the need to
>>> do a backup, and restore - especially for a 1TB or
>>> more drives (I have a 4TB drive, for example).
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> JD
>>>
>> JD, I get the idea, but not the mechanics. Are you saying the upgrader
>> should create an image of the system partition (ala clonezilla or
>> partimage) before starting the actual upgrade? Windows sort of does
>> this when you install a new version (and the backup store is a minor
>> pain to delete after a successful upgrade).
>>
>> RBM
>>
> No.
> Since an existing current installation has the rpm database,
> is not possible to save that in a fashion similar to what
> happens when you run fedup (which requires a reboot to
> actually finish up the upgrade).
> 
> So, a downgrade would involve the same process as the upgrade,
> but based on all the rpms saved (i.e. the downgrade would not start
> with the release iso image rpms, but would rather download the
> rpms according the list of rpms saved during fedup).
> 
> The only issue would be the conf files - and those are easy to
> backup and restore by the user prior to doing fedup.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> JD

The opposite of "fedup"... "UpChuck", perhaps?

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Re: an idea about upgrades

[jd1008]

On 05/12/2015 12:26 PM, Ranjan Maitra wrote:

On Tue, 12 May 2015 11:53:38 -0600 jd1008  wrote:


It would be a great idea if Fedora would provide
a way to downgrade to the immediately previous release
(from which the upgrade was performed), if the user
decides (for some reason) to return to the previous
release. This would completely obviate the need to
do a backup, and restore - especially for a 1TB or
more drives (I have a 4TB drive, for example).

Also, and regardless, the default F setup should involve separate partitions 
for /home and /usr/local in addition to / and then this problem would not be a 
major issue.

Ranjan

You are making a universal assumption, which would not hold true
for most people.





Cheers,
JD

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Re: an idea about upgrades

[jd1008]

On 05/12/2015 11:59 AM, Ronal B Morse wrote:

On 05/12/2015 11:53 AM, jd1008 wrote:


It would be a great idea if Fedora would provide
a way to downgrade to the immediately previous release
(from which the upgrade was performed), if the user
decides (for some reason) to return to the previous
release. This would completely obviate the need to
do a backup, and restore - especially for a 1TB or
more drives (I have a 4TB drive, for example).

Cheers,
JD

JD, I get the idea, but not the mechanics. Are you saying the upgrader 
should create an image of the system partition (ala clonezilla or 
partimage) before starting the actual upgrade? Windows sort of does 
this when you install a new version (and the backup store is a minor 
pain to delete after a successful upgrade).


RBM


No.
Since an existing current installation has the rpm database,
is not possible to save that in a fashion similar to what
happens when you run fedup (which requires a reboot to
actually finish up the upgrade).

So, a downgrade would involve the same process as the upgrade,
but based on all the rpms saved (i.e. the downgrade would not start
with the release iso image rpms, but would rather download the
rpms according the list of rpms saved during fedup).

The only issue would be the conf files - and those are easy to
backup and restore by the user prior to doing fedup.

Cheers,

JD
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Re: F21 user core files

[Matthew Miller]

On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 02:34:33PM -0400, Tom Horsley wrote:
> > I'm unable to obtain a user-readable core file from a user
> > application under Fedora 21.  The core files are being saved
> > under /var/lib/systemd/coredump, and are owned by root.
> This will disable all the magic core file and abrt processing:
> ln -sf  /dev/null /usr/lib/sysctl.d/50-coredump.conf
> (might want to put it in rc.local since a systemd update
> will probably replace the file with a non-null version).


To avoid that happening, simply make that link in /etc/sysctl.d/
instead of under /usr/lib. See `man sysctl.d` for details.


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Re: F21 user core files

[Tom Horsley]

On Tue, 12 May 2015 11:06:57 -0700
Michael Eager wrote:

> I'm unable to obtain a user-readable core file from a user
> application under Fedora 21.  The core files are being saved
> under /var/lib/systemd/coredump, and are owned by root.

This will disable all the magic core file and abrt processing:

ln -sf  /dev/null /usr/lib/sysctl.d/50-coredump.conf

(might want to put it in rc.local since a systemd update
will probably replace the file with a non-null version).

You have to reboot after making the link to restore the
default core file processing.
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Re: an idea about upgrades

[Fred Smith]

On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 02:25:30PM -0400, Neal Becker wrote:
> jd1008 wrote:
> 
> > 
> > It would be a great idea if Fedora would provide
> > a way to downgrade to the immediately previous release
> > (from which the upgrade was performed), if the user
> > decides (for some reason) to return to the previous
> > release. This would completely obviate the need to
> > do a backup, and restore - especially for a 1TB or
> > more drives (I have a 4TB drive, for example).
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > JD
> > 
> 
> I'm hoping that my f22 install into a btrfs subvol will do this for me.  
> I'll see what happens when I try it.

well, at the risk of seeming curmudgeonly, I can play Devil's Advocate
and point out that you already have full control over this, all you
gotta do is make a full backup before you do the installation. Use
'dd' to make a bitwise image of the partition (or drive) then if the
updgrade/installation fails, just use 'dd' to pour the bits back in 
place.

 :)

> 
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Re: an idea about upgrades

[Zoltan Hoppar]

Hi,

This would be a great idea, but I would like to have only as an
opportunity, to create full image backup or files to the user local
storage, or cloud storage along within some 'Hiren's boot cd'-like
tools from the boot menu.
Earlier we have given such tools, but never the opportunity to have
incremental backups.
IMHO, BTW would be a great idea to shoot a list of questions, that
gives back to the devs what we are using, and what we don't as hw.

Zoltan

2015-05-12 20:08 GMT+02:00 Ralf Corsepius :
> On 05/12/2015 07:53 PM, jd1008 wrote:
>>
>> This would completely obviate the need to
>> do a backup, and restore - especially for a 1TB or
>> more drives (I have a 4TB drive, for example).
>
> Off-topic, but do you consider using a 1TB or 4TB "/" partition to be a
> reasonable idea? I don't.
>
> Ralf
>
>
>
>
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Re: an idea about upgrades

[Ranjan Maitra]

On Tue, 12 May 2015 11:53:38 -0600 jd1008  wrote:

> 
> It would be a great idea if Fedora would provide
> a way to downgrade to the immediately previous release
> (from which the upgrade was performed), if the user
> decides (for some reason) to return to the previous
> release. This would completely obviate the need to
> do a backup, and restore - especially for a 1TB or
> more drives (I have a 4TB drive, for example).

Also, and regardless, the default F setup should involve separate partitions 
for /home and /usr/local in addition to / and then this problem would not be a 
major issue.

Ranjan

> 
> Cheers,
> JD
> 
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Re: an idea about upgrades

[Neal Becker]

jd1008 wrote:

> 
> It would be a great idea if Fedora would provide
> a way to downgrade to the immediately previous release
> (from which the upgrade was performed), if the user
> decides (for some reason) to return to the previous
> release. This would completely obviate the need to
> do a backup, and restore - especially for a 1TB or
> more drives (I have a 4TB drive, for example).
> 
> Cheers,
> JD
> 

I'm hoping that my f22 install into a btrfs subvol will do this for me.  
I'll see what happens when I try it.

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Re: an idea about upgrades

[Ralf Corsepius]

On 05/12/2015 07:53 PM, jd1008 wrote:

This would completely obviate the need to
do a backup, and restore - especially for a 1TB or
more drives (I have a 4TB drive, for example).
Off-topic, but do you consider using a 1TB or 4TB "/" partition to be a 
reasonable idea? I don't.


Ralf



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F21 user core files

[Michael Eager]

I'm unable to obtain a user-readable core file from a user
application under Fedora 21.  The core files are being saved
under /var/lib/systemd/coredump, and are owned by root.

None of the configuration changes I've made to
/etc/systemd/coredump.conf appear to make any difference.

Has anyone else seen this problem?  Does anyone have
a fix?  Is there an open bug report?

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1960 Park Blvd., Palo Alto, CA 94306  650-325-8077
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Re: Cannot find combination.hpp in Fedora boost

[Susi Lehtola]

On 05/12/2015 12:08 AM, Paul Smith wrote:

Dear All,

I have installed Boost with

yum install boost-devel

However, I cannot find

combination.hpp.

Could you please help me?


I don't think it's even part of Boost nowadays.
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Re: F21 - NetworkManager "hotspot.txt" TLS Failure Message

[Tom Rivers]

On 5/8/2015 09:24, Tom Rivers wrote:

Good morning!

Since shortly after 4PM EDT on May 5, 2015 I have been seeing the 
following message in my system logs every 5 minutes:


NetworkManager[768]:   Connectivity check for uri 
'https://fedoraproject.org/static/hotspot.txt' failed with 'Peer 
failed to perform TLS handshake'.


I know this relates to the "Captive Portal" feature, 
https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1337, but what I don't 
understand is why the TLS handshake is failing. For example, wget 
works without issue to retrieve the file:


wget --secure-protocol=TLSv1 https://fedoraproject.org/static/hotspot.txt
wget --secure-protocol=TLSv1_1 
https://fedoraproject.org/static/hotspot.txt
wget --secure-protocol=TLSv1_2 
https://fedoraproject.org/static/hotspot.txt


Has anyone else seen this?


This is still happening.  Anyone else experiencing this?  Anyone? Bueller?


Tom
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Re: an idea about upgrades

[Ronal B Morse]

On 05/12/2015 11:53 AM, jd1008 wrote:


It would be a great idea if Fedora would provide
a way to downgrade to the immediately previous release
(from which the upgrade was performed), if the user
decides (for some reason) to return to the previous
release. This would completely obviate the need to
do a backup, and restore - especially for a 1TB or
more drives (I have a 4TB drive, for example).

Cheers,
JD

JD, I get the idea, but not the mechanics. Are you saying the upgrader 
should create an image of the system partition (ala clonezilla or 
partimage) before starting the actual upgrade? Windows sort of does this 
when you install a new version (and the backup store is a minor pain to 
delete after a successful upgrade).


RBM

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Re: Cannot find combination.hpp in Fedora boost

[Greg Woods]

On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 1:08 AM, Paul Smith  wrote:

> Dear All,
>
> I have installed Boost with
>
> yum install boost-devel
>
> However, I cannot find
>
> combination.hpp.
>

It doesn't appear that this file is part of any package. The way to tell is
with something like this:

# yum whatprovides */combination.hpp

When I do this (on both F20 and F21), the result is no matches found,
meaning that no known Fedora package provides a file with that name.

--Greg
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Re: an idea about upgrades

[Tom Horsley]

On Tue, 12 May 2015 11:53:38 -0600
jd1008 wrote:

> It would be a great idea if Fedora would provide
> a way to downgrade to the immediately previous release

I always keep two system partitions. One with this
release, and one with the previous release.
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an idea about upgrades

[jd1008]

It would be a great idea if Fedora would provide
a way to downgrade to the immediately previous release
(from which the upgrade was performed), if the user
decides (for some reason) to return to the previous
release. This would completely obviate the need to
do a backup, and restore - especially for a 1TB or
more drives (I have a 4TB drive, for example).

Cheers,
JD

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Re: How To preserve file attributes (chattr/lsattr) when copy it to another location

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Tue, 2015-05-12 at 17:13 +0200, Dario Lesca wrote:
> I must copy a dir with some file with 'i' attribute set, but rsync (or
> cp) do not copy this attribute.
> 
> See this little example:
> 
> # touch testfile
> # chattr +i testfile
> # rsync -aAX testfile testfile2
> # lsattr testfile*
> i-- testfile
> --- testfile2
> 
> There is a way to copy all attribute?

Apologies for my earlier reply. After hitting Send I noticed that you
had in fact tried the archive option.

poc

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Re: How To preserve file attributes (chattr/lsattr) when copy it to another location

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Tue, 2015-05-12 at 17:13 +0200, Dario Lesca wrote:
> I must copy a dir with some file with 'i' attribute set, but rsync (or
> cp) do not copy this attribute.
> 
> See this little example:
> 
> # touch testfile
> # chattr +i testfile
> # rsync -aAX testfile testfile2
> # lsattr testfile*
> i-- testfile
> --- testfile2
> 
> There is a way to copy all attribute?

You don't say what options you tried. According to rsync(1) archive mode
copies attributes.

poc

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How To preserve file attributes (chattr/lsattr) when copy it to another location

[Dario Lesca]

I must copy a dir with some file with 'i' attribute set, but rsync (or
cp) do not copy this attribute.

See this little example:

# touch testfile
# chattr +i testfile
# rsync -aAX testfile testfile2
# lsattr testfile*
i-- testfile
--- testfile2

There is a way to copy all attribute?

Many thanks

-- 
Dario Lesca
(inviato dal mio Linux Fedora 21 con Gnome 3.14)


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Re: F20: YUM - failure: repodata/repomd.xml from updates

[M. Fioretti]

On 2015-05-11 16:52, Kevin Fenzi wrote:


OK, I'll wait until I see that announcement here then, no big deal
for me.


Things should be back to normal now since last night. ;)


confirmed, thanks.

Marco
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Re: How to keep up to date users with distributions way past EOL (Was Re: Biting the bullet?)

[Ranjan Maitra]

On Mon, 11 May 2015 23:07:33 -0700 Joe Zeff  wrote:

> On 05/11/2015 09:03 PM, Ranjan Maitra wrote:
> > FREE 3D MARINE AQUARIUM SCREENSAVER - Watch dolphins, sharks & orcas on 
> > your desktop!
> > Check it out athttp://www.inbox.com/marineaquarium
> 
> I followed that link and it tried to install Windows-specific "Spyware 
> Removal" software.  Naturally, I refused, but I thought you should know 
> because I suspect any site that tries to launch a drive-by download to 
> be installing malware.

Thanks! This trailer is added by inbox.com (the mailer) as you can see in the 
signature. I have no control over what they add and would ignore such things in 
others e-mail trailers also.

Having said that, it would be disappointing. I really like inbox.com. Compared 
to the big mailers, they do not mine e-mails (as per their statement) and above 
all, they are fast.

Ranjan


FREE 3D EARTH SCREENSAVER - Watch the Earth right on your desktop!
Check it out at http://www.inbox.com/earth


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Re: Biting the bullet?

[Ranjan Maitra]

> That is trivial to deal with.  There are many packages in fedora which
> are renamed to meet packaging guidelines (e.g. many of the python-* or
> perl-* packages).  I encourage you to submit it for review.

I am sorry I do not quite understand. I presume that you mean that one should 
rename stapler (my packaged version) to something else. I tried doing this in 
the spec file. But it never worked because the spec file looks for that 
something else then. I could not figure out how to fix this so just created the 
file for my personal use.

If you or someone else would like to take a look, here it is:

fpaste pdf-stapler.spec 
Uploading (2.4KiB)...
http://ur1.ca/kckv7 -> http://paste.fedoraproject.org/221087/14400891

> If you submit it, please post the BZ id here, I would like to follow it.
> In the meantime, could you point me to the home page?  I found this:
> https://github.com/hellerbarde/stapler/tree/master, is this correct?

Yes this is correct.

I even wrote to the author Philip Stark asking if he would mind changing the 
name to avoid conflicts with this other stapler. As an author and user of 
software, I feel that it is useful to have clearly defined names. (Besides, the 
name "stapler" does not quite do justice to the full capabilities of the 
software.) Anyway, he said he would if I came up with a good name so I 
suggested a bunch, but he never responded after that.

Btw, you will need PyPDF2 for which I have a working rpm (again a personal 
copy, no naming issues there) which I can provide to you. 

How do I submit this PyPDF2 to BZ?

Many thanks.
Ranjan



> Cheers,
> 
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> Suvayu
> 
> Open source is the future. It sets us free.
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Re: WiFi restoration

[g]

On 05/12/2015 04:52 AM, Timothy Murphy wrote:
<<>>

> I tried all the mechanisms suggested in the manual, and none worked.
> If I were writing the manual, I would say on page 1,
> "The first step has to be to access the device web-page.
> If you aren't able to do this you cannot set up the repeater.
> To see the web-page you must set the IP address 
> of your ethernet interface to 192.168.10.n for some n > 1."


try 192.163.10.254 for router web interface.


-- 

peace out.

in a world with out fences, who needs gates.

CentOS GNU/Linux 6.6

tc,hago.

g
.

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Re: WiFi restoration

[Tim]

Doug:
>> You should be able to access the device over the network in wifi mode
>> simply by entering the ip address in the address line of your router.
> 
Timothy Murphy:
> I get the web-page of my router when I do that.

Depending on how your wireless extender works, it could just act like a
switch, passing things through.  Or, it could act like a router.  You
really need to check its manual.

It can even be that some devices configuration control aren't on the
standard HTTP port 80, so you browse to another port to configure them.


> I'm not clear if the repeater has an IP address once it is working.
> If it does, it is not mentioned in "arp -a" or in /var/log/messages .

If you have a DHCP server on your LAN, monitoring it for changes can
show addresses of things being attached to your LAN.

I have a wireless access point that can be operated in two modes, either
as an access point that's similar to a switch, or as a router using NAT.
It does have an ethernet address in both modes, but behaves peculiarly
in access point mode, all the ethernet ports seem to have the same MAC.

Some devices are just damn peculiar, and you really do need to read
their manual.

> I have read it, several times.
> It does not mention that you must change your ethernet IP address
> to 192.168.10.n.

I really do hate devices that insist you change your network to suit
itself.  More so, when they use an unusually different one.

> Its first suggestion, to use WPS, did not work in my case,
> possibly because my router's version of WPS, SecureEasySetup,
> is incompatible with the repeater's WPS.

I was under the impression that all devices using WPS were supposed to
be compatible.  I'm also under the impression that it's a security risk,
in itself.
> 

-- 
tim@localhost ~]$ uname -rsvp

Linux 3.19.5-100.fc20.i686 #1 SMP Mon Apr 20 20:28:39 UTC 2015 i686

All mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted, there is no point trying
to privately email me, I will only read messages posted to the public lists.

George Orwell's '1984' was supposed to be a warning against tyranny, not
a set of instructions for supposedly democratic governments.

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Re: WiFi restoration

[Timothy Murphy]

Doug wrote:

>> In any case, I managed to see the device's web-page briefly,
>> by switching off WiFi on my laptop, connecting the device
>> to the laptop by ethernet, and changing the laptop's ethernet address
>> to 192.168.10.5 .
>> Now I could see the web-page at 192.168.10.1 for about 30 seconds,
>> before it disappeared and my laptop lost its ethernet IP address
>> (ifconfig just gave an IPv6 address).

> You should be able to access the device over the network in wifi mode
> simply by entering the ip address in the address line of your router.

I get the web-page of my router when I do that.

> In Firefox, it says "Search or enter address" so on that line enter
> 192.168.10.1. That should bring up the range extender.

The repeater is working now.
I just tried reaching 192.168.10.1 under Firefox, and it does not connect.

I'm not clear if the repeater has an IP address once it is working.
If it does, it is not mentioned in "arp -a" or in /var/log/messages .

> Meanwhile, have you looked at the user manual?

I have read it, several times.
It does not mention that you must change your ethernet IP address
to 192.168.10.n.
Its first suggestion, to use WPS, did not work in my case,
possibly because my router's version of WPS, SecureEasySetup,
is incompatible with the repeater's WPS.

> I suggest you print the whole manual out and read it starting
> after all the safety stuff, and then you will be able to use the device
> and know it's working.

I tried all the mechanisms suggested in the manual, and none worked.
If I were writing the manual, I would say on page 1,
"The first step has to be to access the device web-page.
If you aren't able to do this you cannot set up the repeater.
To see the web-page you must set the IP address 
of your ethernet interface to 192.168.10.n for some n > 1."




-- 
Timothy Murphy  
gayleard /at/ eircom.net
School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin


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Re: WiFi restoration

[Timothy Murphy]

Tim wrote:

>> The manual says the device has IP address 192.168.10.1,
>> but as far as I can see you have to have a machine
>> running 192.168.10.something to see the device's web-page?
>> I know 192.168.10.* is an allowed address,
>> but is it so popular that one can assume it is in use?

> Within a totally isolated LAN, you can use almost any IP that you want
> to.  But once you join other networks (LAN, WAN, or internet), you have
> to use the ones reserved for private use (such as 192.168.x.y, but there
> are a few others, as well - 10.x.y.z, 172.16.x.y to 172.31.x.y).
> 
> Taking the common 192.168.x.y one, the first three quads have to be the
> same (for the usual 255.255.255.0 netmask) to be able to talk between
> themselves (the netmask sets the boundary between what's considered
> inside or outside; and to reach what's outside, you have to go through
> the gateway).
> 
> So, if you want to talk to something at 192.168.10.1, you'll either need
> to be in the same 192.168.10.x subnet, or you'd need to change the
> netmasks on both devices to 255.255.0.0.

Thanks very much, that clarifies the situation completely.

Actually, the repeater is now working, surprisingly well.
The secret was that I had to run the wizard on the repeater's web-page,
which asked me for the router password.

But as you say, I had to set the ethernet IP address on my laptop 
to 192.168.10.5 or similar.

> You could create a network connection on your laptop that doesn't use
> DHCP, so you can preset your laptop to be 192.168.10.something, to play
> with that device, while you configure things.

Yes, I probably should have edited /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-*
to turn off DHCP.
(NetworkManager has the annoying habit of inventing new entries here -
I see there is one for ifcfg-New_802-3-ethernet_connection.)

Anyway, all's well that ends well.

-- 
Timothy Murphy  
gayleard /at/ eircom.net
School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin


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Re: Biting the bullet?

[M. Fioretti]

On 2015-05-11 18:40, jd1008 wrote:

On 05/11/2015 12:45 AM, M. Fioretti wrote:

Why not backup everything,
then completely ERASE the old installation, installing over it
the current version from SCRATCH, then configure it to work as you 
need?


Seriously. Wouldn't it be a much more reliable path, and consume much 
less

time in the end?



Well, for one thing, installing from scratch requires possibly a large
number of config files, which would require remembering which ones
they are, search for them in the backup and overwrite the newly 
installed
config files, or worse: merge them into the new config files, or go 
through

a painful edit to see what setting from the old make sense in the new,
since not all settings in the old would make sense in the new.


I DO know and confirm that things are exactly like that, because,
as somebody else in this thread put it:


It's not the upgrading process that's the problem. It's that the newer
software tends to be broken in anything but the default configuration.


My point is simply that all this "remembering which old configuration 
files
should be reused, or painfully edited to merge them into the new ones" 
etc..


still is, in many real world cases, much less painful, frustrating, time 
consuming...


than forcing an obsolete system to morph into something else, all by
yourself, with nobody, from mailing lists to online tutorials, able
to help you. You get MUCH, MUCH more help and answers to questions like:

1) "I just installed the CURRENT version of this software. It doesn't do 
X,

 how can I configure it for that task too?"

than to questions like

2) "I have this 5-year old sw, with a config file in a format long 
abandoned,

how do I make it run just as it is, but in a totally new environment?"

because, if nothing else, when you ask type-1 questions there are way 
more
people online with the same questions, and the related answers, in the 
same

moment, than with type-2 questions.

That's why, in my experience, reinstalling from scratch, then "painfully 
editing"
ends up being quicker, more reliable and MUCH less painful than 
upgrades. At

least with upgrades that are NOT to the immediately next version.

Marco
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Cannot find combination.hpp in Fedora boost

[Paul Smith]

Dear All,

I have installed Boost with

yum install boost-devel

However, I cannot find

combination.hpp.

Could you please help me?

Thanks in advance,

Paul
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