capabilities of softwares on fedora vs on developper's platform

[François Patte]

Bonjour,

I am wondering why fedora packagers limit the capabilities of softwares:

I installed blender from fedora repo (f34) version 2.93.5. It is 
impossible to enable the graphical acceleration of my graphic card 
(nvidia GeForce GTX 1050 Ti).


I went to blender official site and got the same version of blender 
and graphical acceleration is set without any problem.


Why this difference?

Thank you.

--
François Patte
UFR de mathématiques et informatique
Laboratoire CNRS MAP5, UMR 8145
Université Paris Descartes
45, rue des Saints Pères
F-75270 Paris Cedex 06
Tél. +33 (0)6 7892 5822
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Re: Problem Fedora 33 installing fonts

[François Patte]

Le 2021-10-19 21:51, Michael Eager a écrit :

I'm trying to install the liberation fonts in F33.
I've run fc-cache after install, but xfontsel does
not see the new font.


fc-list | grep -i liberation

I am wondering why you have to install the liberation fonts, for me 
these fonts are installed by default...


Moreover when you install fonts in ~/.fonts you have nothing else to do! 
fc-list will show you the newly installed fonts.




--
François Patte
UFR de mathématiques et informatique
Laboratoire CNRS MAP5, UMR 8145
Université Paris Descartes
45, rue des Saints Pères
F-75270 Paris Cedex 06
Tél. +33 (0)6 7892 5822
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Re: capabilities of softwares on fedora vs on developper's platform

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Wed, 2021-10-20 at 10:26 +0200, François Patte wrote:
> 
> Bonjour,
> 
> I am wondering why fedora packagers limit the capabilities of
> softwares:
> 
> I installed blender from fedora repo (f34) version 2.93.5. It is 
> impossible to enable the graphical acceleration of my graphic card 
> (nvidia GeForce GTX 1050 Ti).
> 
> I went to blender official site and got the same version of blender 
> and graphical acceleration is set without any problem.
> 
> Why this difference?

Which Nvidia driver are you using? The Nouveau driver almost certainly
doesn't support this feature. The non-free binary Nvidia one might do
so (I haven't checked) but that's not an official Fedora package. You
need to get it from RPMfusion.

poc
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Re: capabilities of softwares on fedora vs on developper's platform

[François Patte]

Le 2021-10-20 11:37, Patrick O'Callaghan a écrit :

On Wed, 2021-10-20 at 10:26 +0200, François Patte wrote:


Bonjour,

I am wondering why fedora packagers limit the capabilities of
softwares:

I installed blender from fedora repo (f34) version 2.93.5. It is
impossible to enable the graphical acceleration of my graphic card
(nvidia GeForce GTX 1050 Ti).

I went to blender official site and got the same version of blender
and graphical acceleration is set without any problem.

Why this difference?


Which Nvidia driver are you using? The Nouveau driver almost certainly
doesn't support this feature. The non-free binary Nvidia one might do
so (I haven't checked) but that's not an official Fedora package. You
need to get it from RPMfusion.


I use nvidia driver from rpmfusion and this feature is enabled when I 
use blender from blender site but not from

 /pub/linux/fedora/linux/updates/34/Everything/x86_64/Packages/

on fedora mirrors.

--
François Patte
UFR de mathématiques et informatique
Laboratoire CNRS MAP5, UMR 8145
Université Paris Descartes
45, rue des Saints Pères
F-75270 Paris Cedex 06
Tél. +33 (0)6 7892 5822
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Re: capabilities of softwares on fedora vs on developper's platform

[Ed Greshko]

On 20/10/2021 17:37, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:

On Wed, 2021-10-20 at 10:26 +0200, François Patte wrote:

Bonjour,

I am wondering why fedora packagers limit the capabilities of
softwares:

I installed blender from fedora repo (f34) version 2.93.5. It is
impossible to enable the graphical acceleration of my graphic card
(nvidia GeForce GTX 1050 Ti).

I went to blender official site and got the same version of blender
and graphical acceleration is set without any problem.

Why this difference?

Which Nvidia driver are you using? The Nouveau driver almost certainly
doesn't support this feature. The non-free binary Nvidia one might do
so (I haven't checked) but that's not an official Fedora package. You
need to get it from RPMfusion.


I can confirm the experience of the OP.

I'm using the rpmfusion nvidia packages which includes

xorg-x11-drv-nvidia-cuda-470.74-1.fc34.x86_64

The blender from the fedora repos doesn't detect a capable GPU.
But blender downloaded from the blender site does.

It shows:

CUDA - NVIDIA Geforce GTX 660(Display)

--
On Facebook it is called Vaguebooking.
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Re: capabilities of softwares on fedora vs on developper's platform

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Wed, 2021-10-20 at 18:17 +0800, Ed Greshko wrote:
> On 20/10/2021 17:37, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> > On Wed, 2021-10-20 at 10:26 +0200, François Patte wrote:
> > > Bonjour,
> > > 
> > > I am wondering why fedora packagers limit the capabilities of
> > > softwares:
> > > 
> > > I installed blender from fedora repo (f34) version 2.93.5. It is
> > > impossible to enable the graphical acceleration of my graphic
> > > card
> > > (nvidia GeForce GTX 1050 Ti).
> > > 
> > > I went to blender official site and got the same version of
> > > blender
> > > and graphical acceleration is set without any problem.
> > > 
> > > Why this difference?
> > Which Nvidia driver are you using? The Nouveau driver almost
> > certainly
> > doesn't support this feature. The non-free binary Nvidia one might
> > do
> > so (I haven't checked) but that's not an official Fedora package.
> > You
> > need to get it from RPMfusion.
> 
> I can confirm the experience of the OP.
> 
> I'm using the rpmfusion nvidia packages which includes
> 
> xorg-x11-drv-nvidia-cuda-470.74-1.fc34.x86_64
> 
> The blender from the fedora repos doesn't detect a capable GPU.
> But blender downloaded from the blender site does.
> 
> It shows:
> 
> CUDA - NVIDIA Geforce GTX 660(Display)

Yes, my nvidia-settings does show CUDA cores so it looks like a
packaging issue for blender.

poc
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Re: capabilities of softwares on fedora vs on developper's platform

[John Pilkington]

On 20/10/2021 11:12, François Patte wrote:

Le 2021-10-20 11:37, Patrick O'Callaghan a écrit :

On Wed, 2021-10-20 at 10:26 +0200, François Patte wrote:


Bonjour,

I am wondering why fedora packagers limit the capabilities of
softwares:

I installed blender from fedora repo (f34) version 2.93.5. It is
impossible to enable the graphical acceleration of my graphic card
(nvidia GeForce GTX 1050 Ti).

I went to blender official site and got the same version of blender
and graphical acceleration is set without any problem.

Why this difference?


Which Nvidia driver are you using? The Nouveau driver almost certainly
doesn't support this feature. The non-free binary Nvidia one might do
so (I haven't checked) but that's not an official Fedora package. You
need to get it from RPMfusion.


I use nvidia driver from rpmfusion and this feature is enabled when I 
use blender from blender site but not from

  /pub/linux/fedora/linux/updates/34/Everything/x86_64/Packages/

on fedora mirrors.

I posted recently on the rpmfusion list about using nvidia-settings in 
KDE plasma under Wayland and X11.   X11 seems largely ok;  Wayland says 
it can't find the display, but then still uses it.


I later found a thread on a similar topic on this list.   Doesn't 
explain the difference you see between the two builds of blender but 
might be related.


https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/VLAAUDCPVYBPI2QHNTFWZA455VVEIQ3T/

John P
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Re: Does the program llvm break all the hardware or only some of it ?

[Dorian ROSSE]

Thank you,

The page web can't have it own password and i can't publish on any forum but i 
have pass to publish,

Have a nice afternoon from France,

Regards.


Dorian Rosse.

From: Andy Paterson via users 
Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2021 8:33:15 PM
To: Community support for Fedora users 
Cc: Andy Paterson 
Subject: Re: Does the program llvm break all the hardware or only some of it ?

Hi Dorian,
You should send to

http://www.fedora-fr.org/

Where you will get more French
Help

On 19 Oct 2021, at 19:20, Dorian ROSSE  wrote:


Patrick : Roger has the good answer i think

Have a nice evening from the France it is twenty past twenty here,

Regards.


Dorian Rosse.

From: Patrick O'Callaghan 
Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2021 7:48:13 PM
To: users@lists.fedoraproject.org 
Subject: Re: Does the program llvm break all the hardware or only some of it ?

On Tue, 2021-10-19 at 16:24 +, Dorian ROSSE wrote:
> " Those are not scripts, they are source and header files. It's
> important "
>
> Are you answer thoses are big scripts who are crash the fedora server
> ?

To repeat what several people have already said: *I have absolutely no
idea what you are talking about*. Your question is badly phrased and
gives very little information on which to base an answer.

poc
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Re: capabilities of softwares on fedora vs on developper's platform

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Wed, 2021-10-20 at 11:38 +0100, John Pilkington wrote:
> On 20/10/2021 11:12, François Patte wrote:
> > Le 2021-10-20 11:37, Patrick O'Callaghan a écrit :
> > > On Wed, 2021-10-20 at 10:26 +0200, François Patte wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > Bonjour,
> > > > 
> > > > I am wondering why fedora packagers limit the capabilities of
> > > > softwares:
> > > > 
> > > > I installed blender from fedora repo (f34) version 2.93.5. It
> > > > is
> > > > impossible to enable the graphical acceleration of my graphic
> > > > card
> > > > (nvidia GeForce GTX 1050 Ti).
> > > > 
> > > > I went to blender official site and got the same version of
> > > > blender
> > > > and graphical acceleration is set without any problem.
> > > > 
> > > > Why this difference?
> > > 
> > > Which Nvidia driver are you using? The Nouveau driver almost
> > > certainly
> > > doesn't support this feature. The non-free binary Nvidia one
> > > might do
> > > so (I haven't checked) but that's not an official Fedora package.
> > > You
> > > need to get it from RPMfusion.
> > 
> > I use nvidia driver from rpmfusion and this feature is enabled when
> > I 
> > use blender from blender site but not from
> >   /pub/linux/fedora/linux/updates/34/Everything/x86_64/Packages/
> > 
> > on fedora mirrors.
> > 
> I posted recently on the rpmfusion list about using nvidia-settings
> in 
> KDE plasma under Wayland and X11.   X11 seems largely ok;  Wayland
> says 
> it can't find the display, but then still uses it.
> 
> I later found a thread on a similar topic on this list.   Doesn't 
> explain the difference you see between the two builds of blender but 
> might be related.
> 
> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/VLAAUDCPVYBPI2QHNTFWZA455VVEIQ3T/

That was me, with feedback from Ed. I now have no issues running Nvidia
under KDE/X11 (not using Wayland until other stuff is fixed, such as
session saving), but as I said I don't use Blender.

poc
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Re: Problem Fedora 33 installing fonts

[George N. White III]

On Wed, 20 Oct 2021 at 05:34, François Patte <
francois.pa...@mi.parisdescartes.fr> wrote:

> Le 2021-10-19 21:51, Michael Eager a écrit :
> > I'm trying to install the liberation fonts in F33.
> > I've run fc-cache after install, but xfontsel does
> > not see the new font.
>
> fc-list | grep -i liberation
>
> I am wondering why you have to install the liberation fonts, for me
> these fonts are installed by default...
>
> Moreover when you install fonts in ~/.fonts you have nothing else to do!
> fc-list will show you the newly installed fonts.
>

I think the OP wants the liberation fonts for a legacy motif app, so wants
the font to be supported by X Logical Font Description (XLFD)
.

-- 
George N. White III
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Re: capabilities of softwares on fedora vs on developper's platform

[George N. White III]

On Wed, 20 Oct 2021 at 05:26, François Patte <
francois.pa...@mi.parisdescartes.fr> wrote:

>
> Bonjour,
>
> I am wondering why fedora packagers limit the capabilities of softwares:
>
> I installed blender from fedora repo (f34) version 2.93.5. It is
> impossible to enable the graphical acceleration of my graphic card
> (nvidia GeForce GTX 1050 Ti).
>
> I went to blender official site and got the same version of blender
> and graphical acceleration is set without any problem.
>
> Why this difference?
>

Distribution packages for complex software often use a basic
configuration that lacks some of the features needed for some
use cases.  I use remote sensing software from NASA and ESA.
These include versions of 3rd party software configured to the
requirements of the applications because they can't assume the
distro packages will work.  In some cases, features involve
licenses or export restrictions that prevent including in a distro
package, but enabling fewer features also minimizes bloat
with features many users don't need.

-- 
George N. White III
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Re: capabilities of softwares on fedora vs on developper's platform

[Gordon Messmer]

On 10/20/21 01:26, François Patte wrote:
Why this difference? 



As Ed and Patrick point out, the difference is probably CUDA. The CUDA 
client libraries are not licensed appropriately for redistribution, 
therefore they are not packaged in Fedora.  And since they aren't 
packaged, they aren't available in the build root, and it isn't possible 
to build software that uses CUDA.


You could ask NVidia to re-license the CUDA libraries, or you could ask 
Blender developers if they'd consider an OpenCL implementation, since 
OpenCL does appear to be supported in Fedora.  Or, as you've done, you 
can use the not-entirely-Free release that Blender publishes.  I'd 
imagine you could get it from Flathub, too.

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Re: capabilities of softwares on fedora vs on developper's platform

[Richard Shaw]

On Wed, Oct 20, 2021 at 10:13 AM Gordon Messmer 
wrote:

> On 10/20/21 01:26, François Patte wrote:
> > Why this difference?
>
>
> As Ed and Patrick point out, the difference is probably CUDA. The CUDA
> client libraries are not licensed appropriately for redistribution,
> therefore they are not packaged in Fedora.  And since they aren't
> packaged, they aren't available in the build root, and it isn't possible
> to build software that uses CUDA.
>

This is not technically true but may be practically true, my google search
was not conclusive.

It looks like Blender has a build time option to dynamically load (i.e.,
dlopen) the cuda library but the first link was from 2018 and said that it
crashed blender. I would hope this has been fixed by now but I didn't look
any further.

Searching the blender spec file[1] I don't see any reference to the
dynaload option but I'm not sure if it's on or off by default.

Thanks,
Richard

[1] https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/blender/blob/rawhide/f/blender.spec
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Re: Problem Fedora 33 installing fonts

[Michael Eager]

On 10/20/21 1:34 AM, François Patte wrote:

Le 2021-10-19 21:51, Michael Eager a écrit :

I'm trying to install the liberation fonts in F33.
I've run fc-cache after install, but xfontsel does
not see the new font.


fc-list | grep -i liberation


Yes, fc-list shows the Liberation-* fonts.

xfontsel and the X11/Motif application do not find them.


--
Michael Eager
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Re: Problem Fedora 33 installing fonts

[George N. White III]

On Wed, 20 Oct 2021 at 14:16, Michael Eager  wrote:

> On 10/20/21 1:34 AM, François Patte wrote:
> > Le 2021-10-19 21:51, Michael Eager a écrit :
> >> I'm trying to install the liberation fonts in F33.
> >> I've run fc-cache after install, but xfontsel does
> >> not see the new font.
> >
> > fc-list | grep -i liberation
>
> Yes, fc-list shows the Liberation-* fonts.
>
> xfontsel and the X11/Motif application do not find them.
>

Nor should they, as X11/Motif uses freetype2.

It has been years since I installed scalable fonts (PFB) on SGI IRIX64.
The hard part was constructing the XLFD files.

https://twiserandom.com/unix/x11-fonts-a-tutorial/index.html

has a lot of detail that looks familiar.

Your time might better be spent finding a current application for your
use case.

-- 
George N. White III
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Re: How did I get a flatpack installed?

[Chris Murphy]

On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 10:30 AM Chris Murphy  wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I think it's a bug, so I filed one.
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2015569

Yep. So the bug is that the RPM and flatpak versions use different
ID's for the same application, therefore Software lists them in search
results as separate apps. There should be only one result for
Thunderbird and Firefox. And then there's a drop down menu on the
upper right side that let's you choose whether to install RPM or
flatpak and if flatpak from which source because it could be from
flathub.org or fedoraproject.org. I think any confusion in this area
is at least suspicious of a bug (or suboptimal UI/UX). So I recommend
constructive criticism with bug reporting for this. My understanding
is the intent is to favor RPM on conventional desktop edition/spins.
And to favor flatpak on rpm-ostree spins (Silverblue, Kinoite).


-- 
Chris Murphy
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Re: capabilities of softwares on fedora vs on developper's platform

[Gordon Messmer]

On 10/20/21 08:32, Richard Shaw wrote:


As Ed and Patrick point out, the difference is probably CUDA. The
CUDA
client libraries are not licensed appropriately for redistribution,
therefore they are not packaged in Fedora.  And since they aren't
packaged, they aren't available in the build root, and it isn't
possible
to build software that uses CUDA.


This is not technically true but may be practically true, my google 
search was not conclusive.


It looks like Blender has a build time option to dynamically load 
(i.e., dlopen) the cuda library



As far as I can tell, the CUDA libraries must be present in the build 
environment in order to build that support:


https://wiki.blender.org/wiki/Building_Blender/CUDA

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Re: capabilities of softwares on fedora vs on developper's platform

[Gordon Messmer]

On 10/20/21 19:08, Gordon Messmer wrote:


It looks like Blender has a build time option to dynamically load 
(i.e., dlopen) the cuda library



As far as I can tell, the CUDA libraries must be present in the build 
environment in order to build that support:



Though I could be wrong... there are some hints in the build log that 
CUDA support is being built (including -DWITH_CUDA -DWITH_CUDA_DYNLOAD 
in some build arguments):


https://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org//packages/blender/2.93.5/1.fc36/data/logs/x86_64/build.log

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Startup recovery

[Dave Close]

Not sure how to title this issue but I'd appreciate advice. A laptop
running F34 crashed last night and won't start properly since. The
only errors I can see and find in the logs indicate some unknown
issue mounting the /home filesystem. The system has /boot and an LVM
partition with / and /home. / and /boot mount successfully but the
startup drops to emergency mode. After I enter the root password,
I can run "vgchange -a y; mount /home" and /home is immediately
mounted successfully, no problem. I can then issue ^D and the boot
seems to complete. However, the network is not started and no gettys
are running on other PTYs.

It seems apparent to me that there is no problem with the LVM partition
or the /home filesystem. So I don't understand why startup is failing
nor how to discover the true cause.

BTW, and not likely related, but if I try to boot from the latest
kernel (5.14.11), the screen goes very dim after the mode is changed,
making it very hard to see what is going on, and the keys to brighten
the display seem inoperative. Booting from kernel 5.13.19 doesn't
have that effect though the same startup problem happens.

Off to get a COVID booster in the morning so further investigation will
continue after I return.
-- 
 Dave Close, Compata, Irvine CA   +1 714 434 7359
   d...@compata.com  dhcl...@alumni.caltech.edu
"Quantum computing is a marvelous way to show the non-
 intuitive nature of quantum mechanics." -Gordon Moore
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Re: Startup recovery

[Joe Zeff]

On 10/20/21 10:01 PM, Dave Close wrote:

It seems apparent to me that there is no problem with the LVM partition
or the /home filesystem. So I don't understand why startup is failing
nor how to discover the true cause.


I'm not familiar with LVM, but I'm sure there's an equivalent to fsck 
for it.  You might want to boot from a LiveUSB and running it while the 
partition isn't mounted to make sure there aren't any problems there.

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