Re: Happy Birthday from FedoraForum.org
On Sun, Dec 25, 2016 at 6:54 PM, Ed Greshko <ed.gres...@greshko.com> wrote: > > > On 12/25/16 16:41, Joel Rees wrote: >> I got a happy birthday e-mail just now that purports to be from >> fedoraforum@googlemail.com. >> >> Anyone know whether it is likely to be legit? > > Is that a ploy so we'd all reply with > > I have no idea, but if it is your B-Day then have a Happy One. > > :-) Well, thanks, but I was just a little concerned about whether I'd made myself the target of some rather carefully targeted spear-phishing. (In another world, I'd be complaining that automatic birthday greetings are a security issue, but it seems rather Grinchly to think such thoughts any more.) Anyway, sorry for the noise. Oh, and Merry Christmas to anybody on-list who celebrates the day. -- Joel Rees I'm imagining I'm a novelist: http://free-is-not-free.blogspot.jp/2016/03/economics-101-novel-ch00.html ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Happy Birthday from FedoraForum.org
On Sun, Dec 25, 2016 at 6:30 PM, Markku Kolkka <markku.kol...@pp.inet.fi> wrote: > 25.12.2016, 10.41, Joel Rees kirjoitti: >> I got a happy birthday e-mail just now that purports to be from >> fedoraforum@googlemail.com. >> >> Anyone know whether it is likely to be legit? > > Birthday messages are a feature of the vBulletin software used by > FedoraForum, so it should be "legit". > That's what I needed to know. Thanks. -- Joel Rees I'm imagining I'm a novelist: http://free-is-not-free.blogspot.jp/2016/03/economics-101-novel-ch00.html ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Happy Birthday from FedoraForum.org
I got a happy birthday e-mail just now that purports to be from fedoraforum@googlemail.com. Anyone know whether it is likely to be legit? -- Joel Rees I'm imagining I'm a novelist: http://joels-random-eikaiwa.blogspot.com/2016/11/simplife01-1-meet-the-pilots.html ___ users mailing list -- users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: [OT] Tim, Gil, et. al. (e-mail address settings)
Since gmail isn't letting me reply directly to Ed, On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 2:39 PM, Ed Greshko <ed.gres...@greshko.com> wrote: > > > On 07/01/16 13:16, Tim wrote: >> Well, you're participating on a list for Fedora, and many services are >> managed by those people. If it's the Fedora list that's misidentifying >> spam on the way through, its software needs looking at. But I seem to >> recall the conversation pointing the finger at gmail not properly >> understanding mailing lists and the to/from addressing being different >> from personal mail. > It is a "gmail" issue and it is *easily* solved within gmail. > > Simply create a file with "To:" equal to users@lists.fedoraproject.org and > check the box > that says "Never send to spam". Problem solved. I have a filter. Don't have a TV to watch baseball, FWIW. :) I didn't have "Never send to spam" checked. Guess I missed it somehow. :( Still, there is a problem with the way e-mail is handled. -- Joel Rees I'm imagining I'm a novelist: http://joel-rees-economics.blogspot.com/2016/06/econ101-novel-toc.html -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
[OT] Tim, Gil, et. al. (e-mail address settings)
To keep this off-list as much as possible, the rant is here: http://reiisi.blogspot.com/2016/07/to-gil-tim-fedora-et-al.html (The blame lies elsewhere. I wish I had the network and social cred to get a real movement started, away from the current faceless CA system and towards a different identity assurance system that depends on actual, existing day-to-day trust relationships.) -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/users@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: OT: Web server no longer works
2014/07/04 3:52 Jonathan Ryshpan jonr...@pacbell.net: On Thu, 2014-07-03 at 13:12 -0500, Kevin Martin wrote: On 07/03/2014 12:47 PM, Jonathan Ryshpan wrote: I run a small weather station that acts as a web server. Recently it's become impossible to access it via the web, though I can still access it over my local network. Do a google search for microsoft and no-ip. You may have gotten clobbered by microsoft. And I spent much of an evening trying to figure out what was going on. Another example of M$ arrogance and incompetence, the kind of thing that afflicts so many large organizations, public and private. I wish I could sue them for damages; but the money involved is vanishingly small. jon Don't admit it in public! Get a lawyer. And claim time lost and mental anguish and future earnings, ... (Yeah, if the big companies can claim future earnings, why can't the little guy?) -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: what just happened (time went backwards?)
On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 8:54 AM, Chris Murphy li...@colorremedies.com wrote: On Feb 27, 2014, at 12:28 PM, Lars E. Pettersson l...@homer.se wrote: On 02/26/14 19:23, lee wrote: What is the purpose of this log duplication? When systemd has its own logs, it doesn´t seem necessary to duplicate them by sending their contents to syslogd. One could also ask why systemd duplicates the logging formerly only done by syslogd. This has been answered many times already, it's an old argument. It's an old argument because someone who is scared of the argument is trying to define it away. [...] It's fine to want plain logs but that is a subset of the amount of information the journal can only retain with binary including checksumming so the logs can be verified, and universal time/date stamping that causes journalctl to report the even in local time even if the server is not local, the list of things that can be done are unlimited. So the superset log is a necessity in any case and if the plain text rsyslog is meeting your needs then why would you bother with journalctl at all? Every time I see a defense of systemd and its spawn, I see this kind of bunk. If information can be logged in binary form, it can be logged in human readable form. It's just a matter of pushing the data through appropriate filters, that's all. The real problem with logs is what to retain and what to strip out. And logs that can't be directly read by humans are not worth the having. Nobody will read them until long after the bad things happened and left the system corrupted. Enforced universalism is the last thing we want computers for. [...] -- Joel Rees Be careful where you see conspiracy. Look first in your own heart. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: OpenJRE or Oracle Jre
On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 7:44 AM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.netwrote: Am 13.05.2013 20:34, schrieb Bill Davidsen: Fernando Cassia wrote: On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 6:09 PM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote: do NOT install it if you are not really use it! I could be wrong, but I believe the current OpenJDK and Icedtea-web approach is NOT to run unsigned applets by default, and modern browsers (ie Mozilla's Firefox) now feature CLICK TO RUN on all plug-in content. So, while I know by now -due to your repetition at every opportunity- that you hate applets, that advice is not needed anymore. There's no way code could run if you do not click-enable the plugin in the browser + grant permission on a per-site basis in the plugin's own dialogs. What does it matter if he hate applets? His advice is good on this particular topic, forcing the user to be aware of the security issues and make good decisions about what to run is a bad thing, too many people follow the you have to click this stupid warning before you can run the neat _steal all my data_ game approach and the There's no way code could run attitude is naive there maybe in the future *a exploit* for the plugin itself leading to execute code *before* you have anything to click in case of security there is only one thumb rule: do not install and/or enable *anything* you do not *really* need and use, what is not there can not be affected by a security hole So, let's all do it right and use openBSD? Not being sarcastic. I use openBSD. And I agree with the sentiment. Java never really impressed me as the cure-all it was sold as, and it's only gone downhill since Oracle kidnapped it. But I find the conflicting directions in Fedora a bit perplexing, of late. -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Wondrous X bug for your amusement
I can't remember not having this sort of thing happen occasionally on Fedora. Also, the X11 session bouncing between virtual terminal 1 and 7, since at latest the switch from Fedora Core to Fedora. I've just tended to blow it off as apparently not worth the devs time. On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 6:05 AM, Tom Horsley horsley1...@gmail.com wrote: I'm not sure I think anyone will figure out what this is or how to fix it, but it seems strange enough to send to the list for the amusement value alone :-). https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=958326 At first, it looks like my system rebooted, but it is actually still running fine and a couple of console VT switch keyboard sequences gets everything back. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org -- -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: fedora 17 no wireless
On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 10:11 PM, Joel Rees joel.r...@gmail.com wrote: First time to try to use wireless since installing F17. Connects, but doesn't succeed at authorizing. Keeps trying to authorize for several minutes, then gives up. /var/log/messages shows stuff like NetworkManager[483]: info (wlan0): device state change: disconnected - prepare (reason 'none') [30 40 0] tries again and says things like ... has security, but secrets are required ... has security, and secrets exist. No new secrets required. Various stuff added, ... Stage 2 of 5 (Device Configure) complete. ... Config: set interface ap_scan to 1 ... supplicant interface state: disconnected - scanning scanning, authenticating, associating, handshake completed, beginning IP6 addrconf, and avahi-daemon[514]: Withdrawing address record for (IPv6 address, I think) on wlan0. IPv6 scheduled, started, completed, DHCPv4 request timed out. canceled DHCP transaction, and ... wlan0: deauthenticating from (MAC address) by local choice (reason=3) ... info (wlan0): device state change: ip-config - failed (reason 'ip-config-unavailable') [70 120 5] and so forth. I'm going to try to set up /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf by hand when I have time tomorrow, but I'm curious as to why I would need to do the set up by hand for F17 when F16 just did its thing and it worked. Found a thread suggesting IPv6 as one possible cause of this sort of behavior, so I disabled it (/etc/sysctl.conf, I think) and got rid of the IPv6 messages in the log. That made it clear that DHCP was timing out, so I just set a static address, and the problem is solved for me. (I prefer not to use DHCP, anyway.) -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
fedora 17 no wireless
First time to try to use wireless since installing F17. Connects, but doesn't succeed at authorizing. Keeps trying to authorize for several minutes, then gives up. /var/log/messages shows stuff like NetworkManager[483]: info (wlan0): device state change: disconnected - prepare (reason 'none') [30 40 0] tries again and says things like ... has security, but secrets are required ... has security, and secrets exist. No new secrets required. Various stuff added, ... Stage 2 of 5 (Device Configure) complete. ... Config: set interface ap_scan to 1 ... supplicant interface state: disconnected - scanning scanning, authenticating, associating, handshake completed, beginning IP6 addrconf, and avahi-daemon[514]: Withdrawing address record for (IPv6 address, I think) on wlan0. IPv6 scheduled, started, completed, DHCPv4 request timed out. canceled DHCP transaction, and ... wlan0: deauthenticating from (MAC address) by local choice (reason=3) ... info (wlan0): device state change: ip-config - failed (reason 'ip-config-unavailable') [70 120 5] and so forth. I'm going to try to set up /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf by hand when I have time tomorrow, but I'm curious as to why I would need to do the set up by hand for F17 when F16 just did its thing and it worked. -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
heads up xhost username on F17 -- manpage bug, I guess
A heads up notice: xhost user gives xhost: bad hostname user but, sudo -u user ls /home/user lists the user's home directory. So the username is valid. Searched the web and found an ancient thread on xhost on Ubuntu (see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/x11-xserver-utils/+bug/60040), and it suggested xhost SI:localuser:user which does what I wanted. This is a change since F16, and not mentioned in the manpage. (The manpage, kind of looks like someone started to bring it up to date and forgot it in the middle.) I'd check to see if there is a bug filed, but all the fussing with the upgrade that ate my winter break leaves me running way behind. No time. (And not a lot of motivation, frankly.) -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: F17: no keyboard response, mouse/trackpad okay, can ssh in
On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 7:57 AM, Geoffrey Leach ge...@hughes.net wrote: On 01/03/2013 04:03:57 AM, Joel Rees wrote: After the problems of the last weekend, starting getting strange stuff where the keyboard would freeze if sat on the screensaver login screen too long. Problem got worse, and after (finally) getting a good (?) yum update, and installing the GIMP, inkscape, libreoffice, and some others, a reboot and no keyboard response at all. Not even switching to a virtual screen. I can ssh in and systemctl isolate multi-user.target and get a console and the keyboard works just fine in the console, so it's an X11 issue. Found an old thread for F17 where reloading the evdev stuff and generating a new config (xorg -configure, I think) fixed a problem with no keyboard/mouse, and I tried reloading xorg-x11-drv-evdev and runing xorg -configure and got a segfault or something similar and no new configuration file. (No xorg.conf to start with, FWIW.) This sounds like the problem being tracked by this thread: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=816764 The problem appears to be related to a combination of XFWM and GDM. If that's what you have, depressing the Shift key for 20 seconds should re-enable the keyboard. Bingo. Now that I think of it, this started happening after I loaded gdm. And I have a bad habit of dozing off with my finger on the shift key, especially while trying to log in after midnight. However, knowing that's the bug doesn't help. Particularly since the bug is still open. I can't afford to have my laptop this unstable. Squeeze is replacing Fedora on this netbook tonight. I'll have to try to squeeze Fedora into a single spare partition (fitting since Fedora is going monolithic these days) on the big box for further studying. (Tried it once two days ago, but the security spin installed okay and then couldn't find the kernel after the first yum update.) Thanks, guys. -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: F17: no keyboard response, mouse/trackpad okay, can ssh in
On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 8:44 PM, Marko Vojinovic vvma...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, 4 Jan 2013 19:23:29 +0900 Joel Rees joel.r...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 7:57 AM, Geoffrey Leach ge...@hughes.net wrote: This sounds like the problem being tracked by this thread: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=816764 Bingo. Now that I think of it, this started happening after I loaded gdm. And I have a bad habit of dozing off with my finger on the shift key, especially while trying to log in after midnight. However, knowing that's the bug doesn't help. Particularly since the bug is still open. I can't afford to have my laptop this unstable. Squeeze is replacing Fedora on this netbook tonight. I'll have to try to squeeze Fedora into a single spare partition (fitting since Fedora is going monolithic these days) on the big box for further studying. (Tried it once two days ago, but the security spin installed okay and then couldn't find the kernel after the first yum update.) Fedora has nothing to do with this. If you read the bug report, the same issue has hit Debian and basically all distributions that use GDM. Ubuntu evaded the issue by switching their default display manager away from GDM. And so on... That's why I don't use sid. :-P (Have not seen this at all in squeeze.) Just switch the display manager to KDM, lightdm, LXDM, or xdm, and you're good. ;-) HTH, :-) Marko Okay, at your suggestion, I'm trying lightdm. I see it has both suspend and hibernate available in the login screen, which is a plus for me. Looks nice, slowkeys is not enabled. Does not erase all the other problems I've had moving from F16 to F17, or the roughly two weeks of winter holidays I've lost to Fedora when I should have been doing lots of stuff for my present job, cleaning up my resume for when the current contract ends, and following up on three job leads. Not to mention spending time with the family. Well, I did get some nice family time in today, which is why Fedora is still there. 8-/ -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
F17: no keyboard response, mouse/trackpad okay, can ssh in
After the problems of the last weekend, starting getting strange stuff where the keyboard would freeze if sat on the screensaver login screen too long. Problem got worse, and after (finally) getting a good (?) yum update, and installing the GIMP, inkscape, libreoffice, and some others, a reboot and no keyboard response at all. Not even switching to a virtual screen. I can ssh in and systemctl isolate multi-user.target and get a console and the keyboard works just fine in the console, so it's an X11 issue. Found an old thread for F17 where reloading the evdev stuff and generating a new config (xorg -configure, I think) fixed a problem with no keyboard/mouse, and I tried reloading xorg-x11-drv-evdev and runing xorg -configure and got a segfault or something similar and no new configuration file. (No xorg.conf to start with, FWIW.) Haven't find any relavent error messages in /var/log so far. Any ideas what's going on here? -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: blacklisting domains for yum?
On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 10:31 AM, Ed Greshko ed.gres...@greshko.com wrote: On 01/02/2013 08:19 AM, Joel Rees wrote: On Tue, Jan 1, 2013 at 8:57 PM, Tim ignored_mail...@yahoo.com.au wrote: Allegedly, on or about 29 December 2012, Joel Rees sent: I'm beginning to think the ISP has throttled me for yum. Could just be the time of the year, with more traffic than usual. Definitely a possibility, particularly considering the timing. New Year's morning here was impossible. But not for the whole net. Read in the newspapers there were some attacks in progress in the Chinese segment around that time, so that might have also been part of it. I live in Taiwan and work with folks in China. No problems for me to connect and transfer files. Also, my wife watches streaming video from China and she has had no problems during the times you were citing. I avoided making any comments at that time since this lists isn't a forum for political or country bashing. Even though they may not comment on this list, please note that folks in countries being bashed do read this list and some of them may take offense. Thanks for the different point of view. I should have been specific about the attacks being cyber attacks or internet attacks, but I didn't read the articles, just the headlines, so, who knows? Mea culpa. I'll look for the articles in the old newspaper pile if you're interested in what was being said. BTW, did you try pulling down updates on the 29th to 31st after about 11:00 pm? All I know for sure is that yum on my netbook kept getting hung up trying to read repositories on Chinese mirrors, so I installed fastestmirror and blocked .cn domains, and that seemed to help. It's the only box I have that runs Fedora right now. apt-get on my Debian systems had no issues, neither was there any particular problem getting to websites. Different set of mirrors. The Fedora mirrors in China that seemed to hang me up were all university mirrors. Possibilities that crossed my mind was that students were celebrating on the 'net or that the government's filters were hard at work against the universities. Saw the headlines the next day and assumed there had been DOS and other attacks going on. -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
yum in the tarpits (was Re: blacklisting domains for yum?)
Well, Ed. I guess I have to look closer to home for my problems with yum. yum update, and the fedora/primary_db part goes just fine, maxes my connection. Then updates/primary_db bogs down to averaging a kilobyte per second. The mirror for both is riken this time, here in Japan, FWIW. Should unblock the .cn domain to see if I can find out more. HTTP access has no problems, even while yum is bogged down. Do we have problems in the mirrors, or has my database for updates/primary_db gone wonky? Clean all doesn't help. On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 11:07 PM, Joel Rees joel.r...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 10:31 AM, Ed Greshko ed.gres...@greshko.com wrote: On 01/02/2013 08:19 AM, Joel Rees wrote: On Tue, Jan 1, 2013 at 8:57 PM, Tim ignored_mail...@yahoo.com.au wrote: Allegedly, on or about 29 December 2012, Joel Rees sent: I'm beginning to think the ISP has throttled me for yum. Could just be the time of the year, with more traffic than usual. Definitely a possibility, particularly considering the timing. New Year's morning here was impossible. But not for the whole net. Read in the newspapers there were some attacks in progress in the Chinese segment around that time, so that might have also been part of it. I live in Taiwan and work with folks in China. No problems for me to connect and transfer files. Also, my wife watches streaming video from China and she has had no problems during the times you were citing. I avoided making any comments at that time since this lists isn't a forum for political or country bashing. Even though they may not comment on this list, please note that folks in countries being bashed do read this list and some of them may take offense. Thanks for the different point of view. I should have been specific about the attacks being cyber attacks or internet attacks, but I didn't read the articles, just the headlines, so, who knows? Mea culpa. I'll look for the articles in the old newspaper pile if you're interested in what was being said. BTW, did you try pulling down updates on the 29th to 31st after about 11:00 pm? All I know for sure is that yum on my netbook kept getting hung up trying to read repositories on Chinese mirrors, so I installed fastestmirror and blocked .cn domains, and that seemed to help. It's the only box I have that runs Fedora right now. apt-get on my Debian systems had no issues, neither was there any particular problem getting to websites. Different set of mirrors. The Fedora mirrors in China that seemed to hang me up were all university mirrors. Possibilities that crossed my mind was that students were celebrating on the 'net or that the government's filters were hard at work against the universities. Saw the headlines the next day and assumed there had been DOS and other attacks going on. -- Joel Rees -- -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: blacklisting domains for yum?
On Tue, Jan 1, 2013 at 8:57 PM, Tim ignored_mail...@yahoo.com.au wrote: Allegedly, on or about 29 December 2012, Joel Rees sent: I'm beginning to think the ISP has throttled me for yum. Could just be the time of the year, with more traffic than usual. Definitely a possibility, particularly considering the timing. New Year's morning here was impossible. But not for the whole net. Read in the newspapers there were some attacks in progress in the Chinese segment around that time, so that might have also been part of it. -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: yum group for the security spin?
On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 10:27 PM, Joel Rees joel.r...@gmail.com wrote: Is/are there any sort of yum group(s) that would aid in building an OS install that includes the security lab stuff? (Tried yum groupinfo Security Lab and got no carrot. Somehow I found the menu package, but that doesn't automatically populate the menu with installed packages.) Never mind, now that the internet is sane again, I'm doing a yum list installed on the (now old) liveusb of the F16 security spin I still have kicking around. Tempting to just sed that list into a yum install. (Heh.) But it will provide some of the clues I want in addition to the menus themselves. -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
yum group for the security spin?
Is/are there any sort of yum group(s) that would aid in building an OS install that includes the security lab stuff? (Tried yum groupinfo Security Lab and got no carrot. Somehow I found the menu package, but that doesn't automatically populate the menu with installed packages.) -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
min install to graphical, sans gnome, how to start graphical.target
Used the netinstall CD image on a USB stick to install the minimal install -- F17 64 bit. Boots to the text console. yum groupinstalled Window Managers, X Window System, and Xfce. /lib/systemd/system/default.target points to graphical.target . /lib/systemd/system//graphical.target.wants contains display.manager.service which is a link to /usr/lib/systemd/system/display.manager.service . I think I saw a message about gnome not being found at some point in the boot process. gdm is installed, for what it's worth, but man -k gdm doesn't tell me anything. I can login to the text console and do systemctl start graphical.target and get the X11 login and login to the xfce desktop. Functions fine from there. Reboot brings me back to the console login. switchdesk xfce says it switched to xfce. What do I need to look for? With all the earth moving under our feet because of /usr merge and systemd, I have no idea where else needs to be set up. -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: min install to graphical, sans gnome, how to start graphical.target
On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 9:25 PM, Ed Greshko ed.gres...@greshko.com wrote: On 12/30/2012 08:02 PM, Joel Rees wrote: Used the netinstall CD image on a USB stick to install the minimal install -- F17 64 bit. Boots to the text console. yum groupinstalled Window Managers, X Window System, and Xfce. /lib/systemd/system/default.target points to graphical.target . /lib/systemd/system//graphical.target.wants contains display.manager.service which is a link to /usr/lib/systemd/system/display.manager.service . I think I saw a message about gnome not being found at some point in the boot process. gdm is installed, for what it's worth, but man -k gdm doesn't tell me anything. I can login to the text console and do systemctl start graphical.target and get the X11 login and login to the xfce desktop. Functions fine from there. Reboot brings me back to the console login. switchdesk xfce says it switched to xfce. What do I need to look for? With all the earth moving under our feet because of /usr merge and systemd, I have no idea where else needs to be set up. It sounds as if /etc/systemd/system/default.target is symbolically linked to /lib/systemd/system/multi-user.target. I kept thinking /lib was not where I wanted to be looking. You'd want to change that to link to /lib/systemd/system/graphical.target Wonder which man entry had the typo that lead me down that garden path. (What with all the illogical things happening in the merge, I had no confidence they wouldn't put a setting in /lib.) Thanks. -- Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning. -- Rick Cook, The Wizardry Compiled Was he talking about intellectual property lawyers, there? -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: min install to graphical, sans gnome, how to start graphical.target
On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 9:22 PM, Maciek Borzęcki maciek.borze...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, 2012-12-30 at 21:02 +0900, Joel Rees wrote: What do I need to look for? With all the earth moving under our feet because of /usr merge and systemd, I have no idea where else needs to be set up. Check status of display-manager.service (i.e. check if it's linked to gdm): systemctl status display-manager.service Check the status of gdm: systemctl status gdm.service No file for that one. But, ... If it says that gdm is disabled do: systemctl enable gdm.service Link default.target to graphical target: ln -s /usr/lib/systemd/system/graphical.target /etc/systemd/system/default.target And then try rebooting - systemctl reboot That did the trick, (rm-ing the link to run-level-3 first). (run-level-3? That's supposed to be obsolete. I didn't set that. Must have been set by the minimal install? Or some buggy package in the groupinstalls?) -- Maciek Borzecki I'd report a bug if I had any idea what to report the bug against. -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: USB Live Install problem -
Well, since you've solved it using a real drive, this is a bit late, but, ... On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 3:33 AM, Bob Goodwin - Zuni, Virginia, USA bobgood...@wildblue.net wrote: On 29/12/12 13:14, Sam Varshavchik wrote: Bob Goodwin - Zuni, Virginia, USA writes: Is there a way I can install without using the USB flash drive? There is no optical drive in that box. Is there a scheme for installing over the LAN connection? Yes, but first you need to make sure that your target computer supports booting over the network. Poke in its BIOS, see if you can find some option that's described somewhere along the lines as being able to boot over the network. There's usually an option somewhere that sets the order in which the BIOS attempts to boot, whether the first device is the hard drive, or the CD/DVD ROM, or USB. If one of those options is a network boot, you're good to go. That's presuming that this is a network port on the motherboard. If you have a standalone network card, the card should have its own internal BIOS that you can enter during the boot, with an option to enable booting. The Fedora installation guide has instructions for installing Fedora over the network, using a network-based boot, so I guess you can follow along, but you'll need to verify that your motherboard supports a network-based boot, first, otherwise you'll be wasting your time. I use a different, slightly order method, BTW, of manually setting up DHCP, TFTP, and isolinux. Ok, I will save this and give it a try but for the present I tried livecreator with an external hard drive instead of the flash drive. For whatever reason the hard drive worked with out a hitch. usb drives are known to be pretty finicky. They are built cheap firstmost and foremost. But, something I found worked for me, after reading the warning about the reset mbr option, run it from the command line and add the reset master boot record option: liveusb-creator --reset-mbr I'm guessing this will be especially useful for drives that have been reformatted and such. (Use the --help option to find more options.) The installer was difficult for me to use, among other things gray text on a light gray background, I gave up and used the install defaults ... Thank you, (I've been thinking we need to re-emphasize the install processes that don't require rebooting just to start the install.) -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: blacklisting domains for yum?
On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 7:58 PM, Mika Suomalainen mka...@outlook.com wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 On 29.12.2012 01:07, Joel Rees wrote: So I want to block yum from going to any domain in .cn . Is there an easy way to do it, either in yum.conf or in yum.repos.d/* , short of disabling the metalinks and grabbing the list of mirrors from the mirrors page and deleting the Chinese servers? I think that yum-plugin-fastestmirror can do this. /etc/yum/pluginconf.d/fastestmirror.conf has commented line 11 which says #exclude=.gov, facebook and I believe that it means that it will not use mirrors that end with .gov or facebook. Apparently that's ends in .gov or includes facebook. yum install yum-plugin-fastestmirror But now I have it installed, yum is still dragging through a sandpit. Speeds in the range of 1 kb/s I'm beginning to think the ISP has throttled me for yum. yum was slow like this late last night and almost normal speed during the day today. Kind of like the servers are getting hit, but the servers seem okay via direct http or ftp. -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: upgrading f16 (32bit) to F17 (64bit) when /usr is is a partition
Never mind. I'll just chalk another one up to the wrecking crew, install fresh in a 15G partition and figure out where to go from there. And the engineers whose hubris pushed this accursed merge /usr project have my eternal disrespect. On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 1:31 PM, Joel Rees joel.r...@gmail.com wrote: Well, I looked around with the rescue mode, and it looks like the netinstall failed to install the kernel and associated files. And grub2 can only find f16 kernels. On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 9:56 AM, Joel Rees joel.r...@gmail.com wrote: I was planning things out, then I thought, just maybe it'll work, and tried the straight upgrade. Is there any way to recover? (Without losing my precious list of installed apps that started from the security live CD?) And is there any way to glue a separate /usr partition in so that the accursed thing can boot if I can get it to find the F17 kernel? (Before someone jumps all over me for daring to deny the new conventional wisdom that /usr should be an alias for / or whatever, I had to break it up like that to get around the stupid basic partitioning scheme forced by the OEM MSWindows home edition or whatever Microsoft calls their attempt to answer freedom with the dole-by-force. Not that I agree with combining /bin and /usr/bin, but in this case I had hard reasons, not just the ones that will become obvious next year when it all hits the fan.) -- -- Joel Rees -- -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: upgrading f16 (32bit) to F17 (64bit) when /usr is is a partition
(Sorry for the spam, Alan.) On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 8:24 PM, Alan Cox a...@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk wrote: On Fri, 28 Dec 2012 20:12:43 +0900 Joel Rees joel.r...@gmail.com wrote: Never mind. I'll just chalk another one up to the wrecking crew, install fresh in a 15G partition and figure out where to go from there. If you are trying to keep /usr separate the where to go answer I'm afraid is most probably Mint or Ubuntu. Alan My main computer's on Debian now. Shoot. openbsd's X11 configurations would take less time than messing with this. I think I actually like Debian. When I try something new I'm not always bumping into people in a hurry to re-invent the world. (Yeah, yeah, I'd like to get someone to pay me to re-invent the world, too.) But I need to keep a Fedora box for studying until I can take the new LPIC 2. Trapped between certification churn and the vendor lock-in tricks that resulted in a 15G boot partition and this kind of junk. Don't want to move the fourth basic partition, in case I have some reason to restore the restore partition sometime. I could just record the partition's start point, I suppose. I'm wondering if anyone has ventured to move /usr after the install. If so, how badly does it bite? -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
blacklisting domains for yum?
Looking in the man pages (man-db itself not in the minimal install? Wow! It's only 1.7M and not having it continually catches someone off-guard. I'm sure I'm not going to remember this next time I do a minimal install.) for yum, not finding a way to black-list domains. What I'm trying to do, the chinese servers get read early in the rotation, and they were dogs last night. 1KB/s and slowing down. Not sure if it's the censoring they are shooting themselves in the foot with or the line between here and there or overloading on a Friday night (Porn on the back channels? highly probable in totalitarian and near-totalitarian countries.) or what. Don't care. I don't trust any server in China right now, and I have reason not to right now, other than simple prejudice. (Such as baidu ignoring my no robots directives.) So I want to block yum from going to any domain in .cn . Is there an easy way to do it, either in yum.conf or in yum.repos.d/* , short of disabling the metalinks and grabbing the list of mirrors from the mirrors page and deleting the Chinese servers? (Or setting my own mirrors list up and refreshing it periodically from mirrors.fedoraproject.org, deleting the Chinese servers as I refresh them. That would be a lot of work, too.) -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: upgrading f16 (32bit) to F17 (64bit) when /usr is is a partition
On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 7:52 AM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote: Am 28.12.2012 23:43, schrieb Joel Rees: I'm wondering if anyone has ventured to move /usr after the install. If so, how badly does it bite? if selinux is disabled it should be quite easy to move anything with a livecd and also create the symlinks, what is more a problem in your subject is upgrade 32bit to 64bit lrwxrwxrwx1 root root7 2012-10-05 13:20 bin - usr/bin lrwxrwxrwx1 root root7 2012-10-05 13:20 lib - usr/lib lrwxrwxrwx1 root root9 2012-10-05 13:20 lib64 - usr/lib64 lrwxrwxrwx1 root root8 2012-10-05 13:20 sbin - usr/sbin Solved by a fresh minimal install of FC17 64 bit and starting over from scratch, rebuilding my package set. That is, those are soft links, aren't they? So crossing volume boundaries should be possible? Maybe? Or is there something else that, say, doing a selinux relabel wouldn't resolve? Yeah, using the netinstall CD image (live on USB because this netbook has no CD and I have no USB CD drive) to update from 32 bits to 64 bits at the same time as updating from F16 to F17 was a good way to shoot myself in the foot. I did it because I realized, worst case, I'd be left with the option of re-installing F17 from scratch and rebuilding my set of packages as I go, and that was the only other option any way. Lost a day to the gambit, but no data lost (yet). I don't know what all it missed. It seemed to handle the links into the /usr merge and the additional links to the 64 bit stuff okay. Near as I could tell, the only thing missing was the kernel and associated files. But I couldn't figure out how to only install the kernel set, and I guess I don't trust myself to know nothing else was missing. So it was a bad gamble from the outset. So, now I'm doing what I should have been doing yesterday. -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: upgrading f16 (32bit) to F17 (64bit) when /usr is is a partition
On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 8:43 AM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote: Am 29.12.2012 00:20, schrieb Joel Rees: On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 7:52 AM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote: Am 28.12.2012 23:43, schrieb Joel Rees: I'm wondering if anyone has ventured to move /usr after the install. If so, how badly does it bite? if selinux is disabled it should be quite easy to move anything with a livecd and also create the symlinks, what is more a problem in your subject is upgrade 32bit to 64bit lrwxrwxrwx1 root root7 2012-10-05 13:20 bin - usr/bin lrwxrwxrwx1 root root7 2012-10-05 13:20 lib - usr/lib lrwxrwxrwx1 root root9 2012-10-05 13:20 lib64 - usr/lib64 lrwxrwxrwx1 root root8 2012-10-05 13:20 sbin - usr/sbin Solved by a fresh minimal install of FC17 64 bit and starting over from scratch, rebuilding my package set. That is, those are soft links, aren't they? So crossing volume boundaries should be possible? Maybe? Or is there something else that, say, doing a selinux relabel wouldn't resolve? you CAN not put ALL libraries and binary on a other partition than rootfs and UsrMove means ANYTHING is under /usr So, their claims that ramfs was supposed to solve this problem were all so much humus. As we knew. Looking at /usr/share, which seems to be the next biggest block of stuff, I see plymouth (minor ouch) and systemd (woops) among other things. So that's a no-go, too. (Merging to /usr was the absolute last thing they should have done. The real solution was to put the executables in their own directories and provide finer-grained modulization with symbolic links. Wonder if RedHat would hire me to undo the damage. Not likely after all the noise I'm making. I'm marked as a trouble-maker, now. Stupid Microsoft envy.) Thanks for the heads-up. (Do I plug along with a minimal Fedora on this netbook, or do I put a minimal Fedora 32bit back on my main box that needs a 64 bit motherboard while I'm studying for the LPIC-2, and move the netbook to Debian? Or maybe Mint? But that's a question for me, not the list. What I'd really like to do is reverse engineer the update tool for my wireless router, so I could completely kick the gratis MSWindows junk to the curb and get rid of the partition limits without paying Microsoft money for an installable copy of MSWindows. Wonder if docomo does this kind of silly update-via MSWindows craziness for their tetherable Android phones? Also not a question for the list.) -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: blacklisting domains for yum?
On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 8:24 AM, Tom Horsley horsley1...@gmail.com wrote: I know you can do it with the yum-plugin-fastestmirror plugin. /etc/yum/pluginconf.d/fastestmirror.conf has some comments about how to prevent access to certain mirrors. In that same directory is a blacklist.conf file, but there are no comments in it so I have no idea what it might blacklist. (It is apparently installed by the anaconda-yum-plugins rpm). That's the package I want. Thanks. (If the new government in China relaxes its attempts at controlling the internet and territorial expansionism, I would not want to do this, but for the time being, it's very useful.) -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
upgrading f16 (32bit) to F17 (64bit) when /usr is is a partition
I was planning things out, then I thought, just maybe it'll work, and tried the straight upgrade. Is there any way to recover? (Without losing my precious list of installed apps that started from the security live CD?) And is there any way to glue a separate /usr partition in so that the accursed thing can boot if I can get it to find the F17 kernel? (Before someone jumps all over me for daring to deny the new conventional wisdom that /usr should be an alias for / or whatever, I had to break it up like that to get around the stupid basic partitioning scheme forced by the OEM MSWindows home edition or whatever Microsoft calls their attempt to answer freedom with the dole-by-force. Not that I agree with combining /bin and /usr/bin, but in this case I had hard reasons, not just the ones that will become obvious next year when it all hits the fan.) -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: upgrading f16 (32bit) to F17 (64bit) when /usr is is a partition
Well, I looked around with the rescue mode, and it looks like the netinstall failed to install the kernel and associated files. And grub2 can only find f16 kernels. On Fri, Dec 28, 2012 at 9:56 AM, Joel Rees joel.r...@gmail.com wrote: I was planning things out, then I thought, just maybe it'll work, and tried the straight upgrade. Is there any way to recover? (Without losing my precious list of installed apps that started from the security live CD?) And is there any way to glue a separate /usr partition in so that the accursed thing can boot if I can get it to find the F17 kernel? (Before someone jumps all over me for daring to deny the new conventional wisdom that /usr should be an alias for / or whatever, I had to break it up like that to get around the stupid basic partitioning scheme forced by the OEM MSWindows home edition or whatever Microsoft calls their attempt to answer freedom with the dole-by-force. Not that I agree with combining /bin and /usr/bin, but in this case I had hard reasons, not just the ones that will become obvious next year when it all hits the fan.) -- -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: criminal use of linux
On 8/2/12, Christopher Svanefalk christopher.svanef...@gmail.com wrote: Best, Christopher Svanefalk On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 7:37 AM, Richard Vickery richard.vicker...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 7:44 PM, Joe Wulf joe_w...@yahoo.com wrote: Correct... Micro$loth has never passed up an opportunity to bully. -- *From:* Digimer li...@alteeve.ca *To:* Community support for Fedora users users@lists.fedoraproject.org *Sent:* Wednesday, August 1, 2012 12:54 PM *Subject:* Re: criminal use of linux snip Legal fights with companies sitting on the kind of cash MS has is a nearly impossible battle to win, unless you can match them. So this has nothing to do with facts and more to do with bullying. Digimer As one who studies laws, and the abuse of political power, I wouldn't worry about this; there is absolutely nothing MS can do - it's just a mere scare tactic. Richard, please do not see this as a personal criticism, but if that was indeed the case, then would not the legal departments of the affected companies (especially Oracle, who most likely has a legal war machine easily on par with MS) have dismissed it rather than letting the company succumb to the demands? Oracle is clearly aligning itself against Google here. Having lost the battle over Java in court, they now think their interests will be best served if Microsoft can succeed in getting a sideways tax on Android through Linux. -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: upgrading to F16 or F17 with /var and/or /usr on LVM volumes?
On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 1:23 AM, Mateusz Marzantowicz mmarzantow...@osdf.com.pl wrote: On 20.06.2012 16:13, Joel Rees wrote: Tried preupgrade, but it can't find my old system, and kicks the upgrade process to the curb. Then I tried the netinstall CD and it can't find my old system, either. Looking around, I see a bit of discussion of problems with the install process recognizing LVM partitions. Rescue mode boot of the netinstall CD appears to be unable to mount LVM partitions. Does anyone know of a work-around short of backing up /etc and /home and doing a fresh install? -- Joel Rees Fedora LiveCD should recognize partitions on LVM and RAID even with encryption. And what good does that do me? Or is there a LiveCD that does upgrades? Well, the netinstall CD does have lvm command line tools on it. Right now I'm reading the device mapper commands. If I find the right commands to activate the logical partitions, I still need to know the name of the install command so I can re-start the install/upgrade process after dropping out to a shell. The command does not seem to be called install, at any rate. (Can't remember whether I've done this on Fedora. Last time I did this kind of thing on openBSD, it was just install there, as I recall.) It's not recommended to have /usr on different partition so perhaps you'd like to change your partition layout. Yeah, I know all about that trash. More about /usr: http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/separate-usr-is-broken I'm familiar with the issues. And the arguments. You don't fix broken semantics by breaking everything. The split is useful and is used. And having no split at all between required system binaries and optional system binaries is just tempting fate. It's the kind of technical activity that Microsoft engineers call engineering. The best one might hope it could be is an excuse for getting a paycheck when you can't think of anything really useful to do. And it's a shame, because there is breakage there that could actually be fixed if there weren't a fixation on merging. Mateusz Marzantowicz I'm not attacking you, by the way, I'm just using your reply as a vehicle to vent my disgust with what Poettering is doing. -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: upgrading to F16 or F17 with /var and/or /usr on LVM volumes?
On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 6:55 AM, Mateusz Marzantowicz mmarzantow...@osdf.com.pl wrote: On 22.06.2012 19:29, Joel Rees wrote: On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 1:23 AM, Mateusz Marzantowicz mmarzantow...@osdf.com.pl wrote: On 20.06.2012 16:13, Joel Rees wrote: Tried preupgrade, but it can't find my old system, and kicks the upgrade process to the curb. Then I tried the netinstall CD and it can't find my old system, either. Looking around, I see a bit of discussion of problems with the install process recognizing LVM partitions. Rescue mode boot of the netinstall CD appears to be unable to mount LVM partitions. Does anyone know of a work-around short of backing up /etc and /home and doing a fresh install? -- Joel Rees Fedora LiveCD should recognize partitions on LVM and RAID even with encryption. And what good does that do me? Or is there a LiveCD that does upgrades? I'm not sure because I've installed my Fedora form netinstall cd but as I remember there is an option to fresh install form Live CD (maybe an upgrade is also available.) I couldn't find an upgrade option the last time I looked, but it was the security spin (F16), not the basic F16 Live CD. so maybe there's a difference. But my original answer was to your need of doing backup, so Live CD seemed to be perfect for this job. Well, checking my original post, I left off the detail that I can still boot in the old F15 system. But thanks, anyway. Well, the netinstall CD does have lvm command line tools on it. Right now I'm reading the device mapper commands. If I find the right commands to activate the logical partitions, I still need to know the name of the install command so I can re-start the install/upgrade process after dropping out to a shell. The command does not seem to be called install, at any rate. (Can't remember whether I've done this on Fedora. Last time I did this kind of thing on openBSD, it was just install there, as I recall.) I'm really surprised that anaconda doesn't recognized your LVM partitions. I had a problem with broken installation so I restarted it (reboot) and I was able to partition my disk again (including LVM changes etc.) I was also surprised. Booting the netinstall CD, I notice that there is an unnamed daemon that systemd can't get started, leaving a message on the top of the screen somewhere along the way to multiuser. To see the command, start the installer (anaconda) by booting your computer and then drop to shell and type in ps command. That should give you the command to start anaconda again. You might also try to do what's needed in parallel with the installer on that additional terminals. OH, YES! Now I remember using the virtual console during installs in the past. Let's see what that buys me. Found this with Google: http://docs.redhat.com/docs/en-US/Red_Hat_Enterprise_Linux/6/html/Logical_Volume_Manager_Administration/cluster_activation.html Elsewhere in there it mentions vgscan and lvscan, which give me the logical paths I need for the argument to lvchange -aly . And running lvchange -aly 'dev/volumeLabel' with the appropriate volumeLabels gets my lvm volumes activated (confirmed with another quick lvscan). And, of course, since I'm there, ps a shows me that that the install program would appear to be anaconda (in /usr/sbin, where it should be) being interpreted by python (in /usr/bin, where it should be). And ps wwaux gives me the full set of options, a bit hard to see through all the other processes. For me, that's /usr/bin/python /usr/bin/anaconda --graphical --selinux --lang ja_JP.UTF-8 --keymap jp106 since I let it go graphical and told it I was working in Japanese and my keyboard is Japanese, etc. anaconda. Now I remember having to restart anaconda by hand before, too. Wish my memory were better. [... my short rant about the works of Poettering ...] No offense taken. Thanks. And thanks for reminding me about the virtual console being available during the dedicated install session. Let's see how it plays out. -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Grub Error - Boot failure
On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 5:11 AM, Arthur Dent misc.li...@blueyonder.co.uk wrote: On Mon, 2012-06-18 at 12:47 -0700, Joe Zeff wrote: On 06/18/2012 12:32 PM, Arthur Dent wrote: Can anyone guide me through troubleshooting and hopfully fixing this without hosing my system? Two questions: first, can you boot into an earlier kernel? Second, if you can't, do you have access to a LiveCD? (Doesn't even have to be Fedora; just something that can get you to a working system.) Well this is weird! I was thinking along the same lines. I found a F14 liveCD and that booted just fine. Had a little poke around the disks using the disk utility (which reported both hard drives as healthy) and then decided to try the original F16 installation disk (not a liveCD) as a rescue disk. Rescue mode failed with a Fatal error (Sorry I didn't write it down) but I just saw a strange error about mounting one of the other partitions on the disk (I have this partition mounted from fstab). So I went back to the liveCD, and edited the fstab, commenting out the relevant entry and... The system boots fine! (Here's the weird bit) I then uncommented the same line (so it once again tries to mount the partition) and... It still works fine! So what gives? In F3 or so to F15, I have some partitions that, if they boot a little slower than others, block the boot process. Sometimes, specifying those partitions noauto in /etc/fstab helps, sometimes it blocks anyway. Once it boots, I can generally mount the problem child partitions by hand. Answering your first question - no I could not boot into an earlier kernel. The grub failure seemed to be before that choice even came up - so why would grub be worried about a partition mounted from fstab which is surely much later in the boot process? Why do I have a working system again simply by changing fstab and then changing it back again? I have a working system and that's the main thing - but if anyone can shed any light as to what went wrong I would be very grateful. Joe, thanks for your help. Thanks again to all. Mark -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org -- -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
upgrading to F16 or F17 with /var and/or /usr on LVM volumes?
Tried preupgrade, but it can't find my old system, and kicks the upgrade process to the curb. Then I tried the netinstall CD and it can't find my old system, either. Looking around, I see a bit of discussion of problems with the install process recognizing LVM partitions. Rescue mode boot of the netinstall CD appears to be unable to mount LVM partitions. Does anyone know of a work-around short of backing up /etc and /home and doing a fresh install? -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: what name does com1 rs232 get in F16+ ?
On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 9:05 PM, Fernando Cassia fcas...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 8:59 AM, Tim ignored_mail...@yahoo.com.au wrote: There probably was some option for me to set in the network configuration whether any user could bring the interface up and down, rather than requiring root to do it. I don't really know, but it sounds familiar, and makes sense. http://mirrors.fedoraproject.org/publiclist/Fedora/4/ If you have some old hardware you're not using, you can take a look. FC4 didn't really require much RAM, CPU, or disk. Although the widget in question may not be part of what's still in the archives. Of course it made sense. The current situation doesn't. :) Depending on what the widget did, maybe it did and maybe it didn't. What happens is SUSE is what happens in SUSE. A lot of what happened in Linspire shouldn't have happened. If the widget allowed an admin user to give modem access to a regular user, that might have been a useful feature in a GUI widget. If the widget set the modem port to be world accessible, well, that is a definite mis-feature in the current world. Such things may have seemed to make sense to some people (you mentioned Linspire?) in the old days, but we know better now. Unless we're talking about a server configuration where you might want things pretty much locked tight as default. :) ... Every modern computer system runs servers. That kind of distinction is not good when talking about system security, especially in these days when so many feature-full tools are availale to the skr!pt kiddies. Thanks Tim for proving my memory isn't that bad... I'd have remembered if I had to fiddle with permissions to get access to the serial port. Anyway... moving on I'm trying to find what else I need to do to have *any* program talk to my dial-up modem. Do you mean, any program that takes a mind to it (world read/write), or any program at all (group access, adding specific users to the relevant group)? My plan is to set up a dial-in server, but first I need to know if the POTS RJ11 port of my FTTH ONT supports data calls, as I suspect it does, and to do that I need to try dialing some dial-up ISP So far the modem is laughing at me. see?, Linux guys and their permissions! it said. ;) FC The world is not as simple as some people thought back then. Anyway, did you try figuring out what group owns the modem port and adding your user to that group? -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: The death of Hibernate?
On Sat, May 26, 2012 at 5:20 PM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote: Am 26.05.2012 07:45, schrieb Joel Rees: Do you understand the reason you still set up swap, even though your entire workload working set fits into RAM? there is no single reason if you have enough RAM In an ideal world, RAM would not consume energy. This is a real world, what energy I have on the train is a small Lithium ion battery. why in the world do you wake up this thread after weeks again? The after three weeks part is that I have a day job and a night job, and trying to keep up with the mailing list is not top priority for me. The wake it up part, I guess, is that I really, really think hibernate is important. And technical accuracy is also important to me. You contribute some good things to the list, Riendl, but your field of vision seems severely limited to your own working set. And some of the things you say (nothing but greedy RAM policies in any Unix-like OS? No reason to use a low-power netbook running Fedora on the train?) are just plain wrong. -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: The death of Hibernate?
On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 9:36 PM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote: Am 17.05.2012 14:29, schrieb Joel Rees: you can guess how long it takes dump 16 GB to disk and load it Guess, Or calculate? calculate it I'd like to see your calculations, although I got a clue from your comment about slow disks. it takes way too long There is a reason for that, other than your harping about how booting fits your needs better than suspending or hibernating. it may acceptable on machines with real fast RAID10 but they are booting also much faster and are up in 10-15 seconds 5 seconds for login and a few seconds for session-restore Well, on my lenovo S100 ideapaddy or whatever this piece of junk is called, I have problems getting a good session restore on reboot. It can wedge xfce4 so that I have to use some workaround to get a shell and use the --replace option. Bugs. Cheap hardware that I could actually buy, instead of dream about, to replace the iBook that died permanently a bit before Christmas. But, as far as which is faster, I have 1G of RAM. I don't run database servers or web servers on it. Go ahead, guess or calculate. I mostly use it on the train for e-mail, text editing, and some translation work that I'm hoping will stretch the paycheck through the last week of the month before payday. Sometimes I use it at work to do things that are not allowed on the computers at work. (Yeah, tacit permission that could bite me, so I only use it for emergencies.) An Android phone or tablet would be more appropriate, but I could not afford that, period. Economic realities, here. Boot time is not what I want to do on the train. Suspend takes maybe five seconds to sleep, about the same to wake up. Hibernate takes, actually, not much more, ten seconds max. Cold boot takes somewhere between thirty seconds and more than a minute. Do you understand the reason you still set up swap, even though your entire workload working set fits into RAM? there is no single reason if you have neough RAM In an ideal world, RAM would not consume energy. This is a real world, what energy I have on the train is a small Lithium ion battery. Better than a set of NiCd cells, but still quite limited. And even just 1G of RAM consumes quite a bit less suspended than running, and even less hibernated. Enough that I can suspend, shut the lid, get off the train, work all morning, and my work state doesn't disappear in a power-down before lunch. Leaving it running, it might force power-down by the time I walk twenty minutes from the station to work. By the way, in an ideal world (my version), the netbook I'm carrying would not be a lenovo Intel. It wouldn't even be a cold-fire or ARM-based unit. It'd be running a port of Linux or one of the BSDs on a swarm of Forth processors. And nothing but the currently active apps would keep state in RAM, which would save huge time on hibernate and restore, because you wouldn't be trying to dump and restore the entire system RAM. (Maybe there's a hint in there as to why your experience with hibernate seems to have you thinking you don't want to do that.) compared with a full boot between 10 and 30 seconds (30 seconds with a LOT of services like mail, www, mysql...) The Gimp? GIMP starts in around 5 seconds on recent machines Modulo your definition of recent. But you missed the point. LibreOffice, Inkscape, whatever. If I power down the netbook before I get off the train, I have to save whatever I'm working on and quit the apps. (Yeah, actually, I've broken the gimp out and worked a little on graphics on the train once or twice.) That takes time. Then, after I boot back up, I have to open whatever it was I was working on, both starting the apps and loading the documents. With suspend or hibernate, yeah, it's safest to save, but I don't have to quit. And I don't have to start the apps back up after booting back up. By the way, even at home, running the 40W netbook all day long would cost about half of what we spend on lighting for the month. It adds up, and in Japan, it's not as cheap as some other places. I am glad you find you don't need hibernate or suspend. But this thread started with someone talking about kernel devs that want to get rid of suspend and hibernate. If they did remove those from the kernel, I would need something to replace them. -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: The death of Hibernate?
Where do we get these recruits? On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 7:35 AM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote: Am 06.03.2012 22:49, schrieb Rex Dieter: Geoffrey Leach wrote: It appears that among some kernel maintainers there's an opinion that the hibernate (suspend to disk) capability is of insufficient interest to users to justify the difficulty of maintenance. It's not an issue about users' interest at all. Obviously its a useful feature. on machines these days? Netbook? you can guess how long it takes dump 16 GB to disk and load it Guess, Or calculate? Do you understand the reason you still set up swap, even though your entire workload working set fits into RAM? compared with a full boot between 10 and 30 seconds (30 seconds with a LOT of services like mail, www, mysql...) The Gimp? -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: XFCE Login Freeze
I had the disappearing title bar problem again just now and thought of another thing you might try, referencing the thread I post a link to several weeks ago: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/users/2011-December/411290.html We used to set the default run level to 3 to keep X11 from starting, or use telinit 3 to shut X11 down. I'm not sure how systemctld does that now, but it looks like either the stop or isolate command is what you would use instead of telinit, ... (crud. I'm looking at man systemd.unit and I see something I'd suspected, but hadn't seen before: The syntax is inspired by XDG Desktop Entry Specification[1] .desktop files, which are in turn inspired by Microsoft Windows .ini files. Who turned this guy loose in our source tree? Man, I wish I had enough money to go back and fork Fedora from before he get allowed in. Even just enough money to pay my rent and feed the kids and set up some servers in the other room or something until I got it going. Maybe it is time to bite the bullet and start moving my stuff to Debian, or check out how far Cent has gone down this road.) Anyway, if you don't want to take the time to look up the unit names for X11 services or whatever he's calling that, I think telinit 3 will still work in F16. With X11 down, log in to the account for the user that is having problems, and use startx or the current equivalent, and see if you can start that way. If you can, get a virtual terminal and run xfwm4 --replace Running that in a virtual console, without X11 running, probably doesn't do much good. Or, if you have xde or gnome installed, try logging in on one of those instead, and run the above command, as a swag. It should reset a number of defaults for you, which should be less brutal than what I outlined below. On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 10:31 AM, Joel Rees joel.r...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 8:06 PM, Jonathan Allen jonat...@barumtrading.co.uk wrote: Joe Zeff said: /home/user/.xsession-errors would be another good place to check. Here is it - should that tell me how to go forward? The signal 15 is when I terminated the xfce session from a root console session. Jonathan +++ /usr/bin/startxfce4: X server already running on display :0 Hmm. ssh-agent is already running; starting gpg-agent without ssh support xfdesktop[1438]: starting up xfce4-settings-helper: Another instance is already running. Leaving... Huh? Initializing tracker-miner-fs... Tracker-Message: Setting up monitor for changes to config file:'/home/tabitha/.config/tracker/tracker-miner-fs.cfg' Starting log: File:'/home/tabitha/.local/share/tracker/tracker-miner-fs.log' GNOME_KEYRING_CONTROL=/tmp/keyring-gzQ2UL GNOME_KEYRING_CONTROL=/tmp/keyring-gzQ2UL SELinux Troubleshooter: Applet requires SELinux be enabled to run. Initializing tracker-store... ** Message: applet now removed from the notification area Tracker-Message: Setting up monitor for changes to config file:'/home/tabitha/.config/tracker/tracker-store.cfg' abrt-applet: glib 2.31 - init threading Tracker-Message: Setting up monitor for changes to config file:'/home/tabitha/.config/tracker/tracker-store.cfg' Starting log: File:'/home/tabitha/.local/share/tracker/tracker-store.log' GNOME_KEYRING_CONTROL=/tmp/keyring-gzQ2UL GPG_AGENT_INFO=/tmp/keyring-gzQ2UL/gpg:0:1 (tracker-store:1541): Tracker-CRITICAL **: D-Bus service name:'org.freedesktop.Tracker1' is already taken, perhaps the daemon is already running? Yeah, something is left over, here, too. GNOME_KEYRING_CONTROL=/tmp/keyring-gzQ2UL GPG_AGENT_INFO=/tmp/keyring-gzQ2UL/gpg:0:1 SSH_AUTH_SOCK=/tmp/keyring-gzQ2UL/ssh (xfce4-settings-helper:1569): libxfce4ui-WARNING **: ICE I/O Error (xfce4-settings-helper:1569): libxfce4ui-WARNING **: Disconnected from session manager. /etc/xdg/xfce4/xinitrc: line 221: 1426 Terminated xfce4-session At this point, you're stuck, I'm thinking. running 'pkill -INT ^gpg-agent$; rm -f /home/tabitha/.cache/gpg-agent-info' There's a cache that you want to look at. See what's there, and either delete it or move it to someplace like /home/isolationward/.cache . Re-boot and see what happens. xfsettingsd: Fatal IO error 11 (Resource temporarily unavailable) on X server :0. Thunar: Fatal IO error 11 (Resource temporarily unavailable) on X server :0.0. xfce4-settings-helper: Fatal IO error 11 (Resource temporarily unavailable) on X server :0.0. (polkit-gnome-authentication-agent-1:1447): Gdk-WARNING **: polkit-gnome-authentication-agent-1: Fatal IO error 11 (Resource temporarily unavailable) on X server :0.0. g_dbus_connection_real_closed: Remote peer vanished with error: Underlying GIOStream returned 0 bytes on an async read (g-io-error-quark, 0). Exiting. Received signal:15 (nm-applet:1457): Gdk-WARNING **: nm-applet: Fatal IO error 11 (Resource temporarily unavailable) on X server :0.0. abrt-applet: Fatal IO error 11 (Resource
Re: XFCE Login Freeze
On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 8:06 PM, Jonathan Allen jonat...@barumtrading.co.uk wrote: Joe Zeff said: /home/user/.xsession-errors would be another good place to check. Here is it - should that tell me how to go forward? The signal 15 is when I terminated the xfce session from a root console session. Jonathan +++ /usr/bin/startxfce4: X server already running on display :0 Hmm. ssh-agent is already running; starting gpg-agent without ssh support xfdesktop[1438]: starting up xfce4-settings-helper: Another instance is already running. Leaving... Huh? Initializing tracker-miner-fs... Tracker-Message: Setting up monitor for changes to config file:'/home/tabitha/.config/tracker/tracker-miner-fs.cfg' Starting log: File:'/home/tabitha/.local/share/tracker/tracker-miner-fs.log' GNOME_KEYRING_CONTROL=/tmp/keyring-gzQ2UL GNOME_KEYRING_CONTROL=/tmp/keyring-gzQ2UL SELinux Troubleshooter: Applet requires SELinux be enabled to run. Initializing tracker-store... ** Message: applet now removed from the notification area Tracker-Message: Setting up monitor for changes to config file:'/home/tabitha/.config/tracker/tracker-store.cfg' abrt-applet: glib 2.31 - init threading Tracker-Message: Setting up monitor for changes to config file:'/home/tabitha/.config/tracker/tracker-store.cfg' Starting log: File:'/home/tabitha/.local/share/tracker/tracker-store.log' GNOME_KEYRING_CONTROL=/tmp/keyring-gzQ2UL GPG_AGENT_INFO=/tmp/keyring-gzQ2UL/gpg:0:1 (tracker-store:1541): Tracker-CRITICAL **: D-Bus service name:'org.freedesktop.Tracker1' is already taken, perhaps the daemon is already running? Yeah, something is left over, here, too. GNOME_KEYRING_CONTROL=/tmp/keyring-gzQ2UL GPG_AGENT_INFO=/tmp/keyring-gzQ2UL/gpg:0:1 SSH_AUTH_SOCK=/tmp/keyring-gzQ2UL/ssh (xfce4-settings-helper:1569): libxfce4ui-WARNING **: ICE I/O Error (xfce4-settings-helper:1569): libxfce4ui-WARNING **: Disconnected from session manager. /etc/xdg/xfce4/xinitrc: line 221: 1426 Terminated xfce4-session At this point, you're stuck, I'm thinking. running 'pkill -INT ^gpg-agent$; rm -f /home/tabitha/.cache/gpg-agent-info' There's a cache that you want to look at. See what's there, and either delete it or move it to someplace like /home/isolationward/.cache . Re-boot and see what happens. xfsettingsd: Fatal IO error 11 (Resource temporarily unavailable) on X server :0. Thunar: Fatal IO error 11 (Resource temporarily unavailable) on X server :0.0. xfce4-settings-helper: Fatal IO error 11 (Resource temporarily unavailable) on X server :0.0. (polkit-gnome-authentication-agent-1:1447): Gdk-WARNING **: polkit-gnome-authentication-agent-1: Fatal IO error 11 (Resource temporarily unavailable) on X server :0.0. g_dbus_connection_real_closed: Remote peer vanished with error: Underlying GIOStream returned 0 bytes on an async read (g-io-error-quark, 0). Exiting. Received signal:15 (nm-applet:1457): Gdk-WARNING **: nm-applet: Fatal IO error 11 (Resource temporarily unavailable) on X server :0.0. abrt-applet: Fatal IO error 11 (Resource temporarily unavailable) on X server :0.0. ABRT service is not running applet.py: Fatal IO error 11 (Resource temporarily unavailable) on X server :0.0. g_dbus_connection_real_closed: Remote peer vanished with error: Underlying GIOStream returned 0 bytes on an async read (g-io-error-quark, 0). Exiting. xfwm4: Fatal IO error 2 (No such file or directory) on X server :0.0. (xfdesktop:1438): libxfce4ui-WARNING **: ICE I/O Error (xfdesktop:1438): libxfce4ui-WARNING **: Disconnected from session manager. migrate: Fatal IO error 0 (Success) on X server :0.0. No protocol specified -- I'm wondering if this is related to a problem I'm having where the input method processes leak over a logout and then when I log in again (any user), I have two input method icons in the task bar panel. -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: XFCE Login Freeze
On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 4:47 PM, Jonathan Allen jonat...@barumtrading.co.uk wrote: Joe, No-one else can get a graphical session on that box because the graphical console is taken with the stalled session, but console logins are still fine and other users can freely start graphic sessions on other machines on the network. What happens if somebody else tries to log on just after a reboot? That too is fine; any other user, either after a reboot or after the frozen XFCE session has been taken out by kill -15 Jonathan Well, then, the user should try to log in on a regular X11 session (usual graphical login), get the freeze, then log in immediately via ssh or a virtual console and look at his hidden files under the home directory: ls -lart ~/ or /home/username if the admin is checking for the user. These options will show the most recently changed hidden directories, which may or may not provide a clue. Just for grins, check /var/log immediately with the same options. You might see some new logs with some clues from the stalled login. One hidden directory to check in would be .cache . Notice the contents of .cache/sessions and .cache/menus . Another hidden directory to check would be .config . There might be others. How to tell what to delete? Go by sense of smell. Stuff in caches should not be too much of a concern, but stuff in configurations, you might want to check the man pages and think about once or twice first. Anyway, try emptying the obvious caches first. That is, kill the stalled session, empty a cache, try logging in again. -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Grub2 MBR issues
On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 5:46 AM, Jeffrey Ross j...@bubble.org wrote: My concern is if I were to loose /dev/sda I want to be able to boot via /dev/sdb. yes, because /dev/sda does NOt have GRUB, /dev/sdb has Or am I reading the output from file wrong and its actually /dev/sda that doesn't have grub2 installed on it? you see GRand Unified Bootloader on /dev/sdb and not on /dev/sda no idea howyou are interpreting your outputs ok, misinformation from this post? http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/users/2012-February/414336.html Now the question is who is right? I'm starting to believe the post I quoted above is incorrect. Jeff The information you will be missing when grub2 is loaded is the string GRUB version 0.94 when you do it that way. Also, grub2 is a work in progress. Things will change. But the particularly post you were referring to was probably misinterpreting something, most likely the drive letters (which, as you might know, tend not to be stable, and, particularly not the same letters when grub sees them at boot as when the OS, including the grub tools, see them after the boot-up process is complete). -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: XFCE Login Freeze
Since it has been two days with no response, and this kind of reminds me of a problem I had several months back (but who knows if it is related, thread at http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/users/2011-December/thread.html#411240), On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 6:15 PM, Jonathan Allen jonat...@barumtrading.co.uk wrote: Hi list, We have a multi-workstation network, with several nodes running F16/XFCE on remote-mounted home directories. Is the remote mounted home directory for the affected user accessible? All users can log in and out without any difficulty except one. This user gives name and password but then freezes indefinitely. Can the user log in non-X11 via ssh or on a virtual console? How about logging in from a different box? 'ps' shows a variety of tasks running, but nothing appears on screen except the standard wallpaper; time is present but nothing else. Running are startxfce, xfce-session, etc. How about xfwm4? User can be cleared by kill -15 startxfce-pid and other users can log then log in. Are other users blocked on the one box or all over the network? What might be causing the freeze - is there some lockfile that needs removing to unlock the user's account? Jonathan Have you tried the brutal method of deleting the caches or the xfce state? -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: flash updated (11.2 r202) yesterday, strange permissions stuff, no youtube
On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 10:34 PM, Ed Greshko ed.gres...@greshko.com wrote: On 04/14/2012 09:11 PM, Joel Rees wrote: With the old flash plugin, youtube works fine. May put flash in one account on the box I'm using here, to see if it's perhaps a CPU or other hardware issue but not now. Okay, the current flash plugin and yesterdays both work on this box. Except that http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_GpxCUg9Vo (heart playing heartless on TV back in the 70s) doesn't. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a03S9o4sFxE B52s playing Roam, does play. html5 setting doesn't make any difference on this box, either. This box is a netbook with the accursed Intel Atom N455, 32 bit fedora. That box is AMD Sempron 2600, all 32 bit. Guess I need to file a bug somewhere. (Specifically, with Adobe, not Fedora.) I am unable to follow what you are doing. I thought there was one box...your daughter's. Now there are 2. This and that. Well, I'd blame it on my age, but several members of the list trump me on that. 8-P My wife tells me I've always been hard to follow. :- There was one box, and then there are two. That is, since I'm having problems on the one box, I thought I'd see what happens on the other. FWIW, both of those URLs you cite play just fine under F16/Firefox/HTML5 on my Intel i5 system. I seem to be missing support for HTML5 somewhere. But I'm not really looking to fix that just now. As I said, and as Sam has also pointed out, there really is no reason to mess with the tar file. Nobody I know jumps through hoops longer. Same thing as using sudo and xhost to sandbox FF without depending on SELinux. I don't follow the crowed. Here are my reasons for not enabling the repository and yumming the thing: (1) I don't care to have lots of repositories enabled. Not for mpeg stuff, not for Adobe. (2) I don't want to have to use Adobe's settings tools to disable Flash in my admin and banking accounts. I only want Flash to run in the account the kids surf from and the account I sometimes use for testing those kinds of things. I suppose I could Yeah, I'm baroque enough to have separate accounts for surfing, work, admin, and money. And I don't surf in bad water, either. A former co-worker bragged about how much malware he had to remove from his PC, back in the days of MSW95. I'm kind of the opposite. I've seen hints that I could use yum or RPM locally to the two users in question, I suppose I should nose around for more on that sometime. Good luck. -- Never be afraid to laugh at yourself, after all, you could be missing out on the joke of the century. -- Dame Edna Everage Heh. -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: flash updated (11.2 r202) yesterday, strange permissions stuff, no youtube
On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 2:10 PM, Ed Greshko ed.gres...@greshko.com wrote: On 04/14/2012 01:03 PM, Joel Rees wrote: Anyone else having issues with this version of flash? -- Shockwave Flash 11.2 r202. No problems at all with flash/youtube on firefox. However, I'm installing from the adobe-linux-i386.repo and only have system-wide files installed... Well, I just downloaded the tarball once more, and took a look. cmp says today's tarball is different from yesterdays. Unpacking the tarball and doing a diff -r reveals that they differ in the contents of the readme (version goes up from .228 to .233) and the kde library, /usr/lib/kde4/kcm/adobe/flash_player.so . So, the versions shouldn't be at issue here. I guess I'll tell my daughter that youtube is isn't going to work for a few days, until I get more information, at least. Adobe's failure to provide cryptographic checksums for those further undermines my trust in their processes. -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: flash updated (11.2 r202) yesterday, strange permissions stuff, no youtube
On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 3:30 PM, Ed Greshko ed.gres...@greshko.com wrote: On 04/14/2012 02:15 PM, Joel Rees wrote: Well, I just downloaded the tarball once more, and took a look. cmp says today's tarball is different from yesterdays. Unpacking the tarball and doing a diff -r reveals that they differ in the contents of the readme (version goes up from .228 to .233) and the kde library, /usr/lib/kde4/kcm/adobe/flash_player.so . Noticed that libflashplayer is also different, so I went ahead and moved today's libflashplayer in to see what would happen. No change. (Guess I'm still not up to speed on reading diffs.) I should note that some videos work, either way. (Live video of Heart doing Heartless and another of B-52s doing Roam. The Roam video claims to be a conversion to Theora.) Probably Theora/ogg and other free stuff works and non-free stuff that depends on Flash to get around the codec issue doesn't. So, the versions shouldn't be at issue here. I guess I'll tell my daughter that youtube is isn't going to work for a few days, until I get more information, at least. Adobe's failure to provide cryptographic checksums for those further undermines my trust in their processes. Why don't you switch your youtube experience to hmtl5? http://www.youtube.com/html5 and join Great idea! Doesn't seem to make any difference, however. I'm seeing some messages that may be related in /var/log/messages, I'll have to copy paste them into this thread. And I'll try moving the old Flash plugin back in to see if that tells me anything. May put flash in one account on the box I'm using here, to see if it's perhaps a CPU or other hardware issue but not now. Have some family business. -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: flash updated (11.2 r202) yesterday, strange permissions stuff, no youtube
On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 5:08 PM, Joel Rees joel.r...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 3:30 PM, Ed Greshko ed.gres...@greshko.com wrote: On 04/14/2012 02:15 PM, Joel Rees wrote: Well, I just downloaded the tarball once more, and took a look. cmp says today's tarball is different from yesterdays. Unpacking the tarball and doing a diff -r reveals that they differ in the contents of the readme (version goes up from .228 to .233) and the kde library, /usr/lib/kde4/kcm/adobe/flash_player.so . Noticed that libflashplayer is also different, so I went ahead and moved today's libflashplayer in to see what would happen. No change. (Guess I'm still not up to speed on reading diffs.) I should note that some videos work, either way. (Live video of Heart doing Heartless and another of B-52s doing Roam. The Roam video claims to be a conversion to Theora.) Probably Theora/ogg and other free stuff works and non-free stuff that depends on Flash to get around the codec issue doesn't. So, the versions shouldn't be at issue here. I guess I'll tell my daughter that youtube is isn't going to work for a few days, until I get more information, at least. Adobe's failure to provide cryptographic checksums for those further undermines my trust in their processes. Why don't you switch your youtube experience to hmtl5? http://www.youtube.com/html5 and join Great idea! Doesn't seem to make any difference, however. I'm seeing some messages that may be related in /var/log/messages, I'll have to copy paste them into this thread. And I'll try moving the old Flash plugin back in to see if that tells me anything. With the old flash plugin, youtube works fine. May put flash in one account on the box I'm using here, to see if it's perhaps a CPU or other hardware issue but not now. Okay, the current flash plugin and yesterdays both work on this box. Except that http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_GpxCUg9Vo (heart playing heartless on TV back in the 70s) doesn't. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a03S9o4sFxE B52s playing Roam, does play. html5 setting doesn't make any difference on this box, either. This box is a netbook with the accursed Intel Atom N455, 32 bit fedora. That box is AMD Sempron 2600, all 32 bit. Guess I need to file a bug somewhere. -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: F16, XFCE/LXDE and hibernate button
Proof my brain has not been working right lately -- On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 11:42 AM, Joel Rees joel.r...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 9:50 AM, Rick Stevens rstev...@corp.alldigital.com wrote: On 04/10/2012 03:55 PM, Joel Rees wrote: Anybody using XFCE or LXDE who are missing their hibernate button in the logout dialog after the recent kernel upgrade? Which new kernel? I'm running 3.3.1-3.fc16.x86_64 and I see it. 3.3.1-3.fc16.i686 If you're getting yours, it probably is not the kernel, so, ... Or should I suspect that moving the /home partition to a new partition yesterday is to blame? Possibly. (Need to look up what I have to do with SELinux after a move like this. I remember there's something that needs to be done, don't remember exactly what.) restorecon -R -v /home I believe. Yeah. Restore context. That's one thing I need to do. Reset a bunch of context. but there's still no hibernate. Durn. Today, I finally did what I should've done four days ago: STW on hibernate setting xfce Google gave me some nice threads on xfconf-query: http://forum.xfce.org/viewtopic.php?id=4781 http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1830829 No man entry for xfconf-query, but --help gives enough clues for what I might have needed in another case, but not here. setting the hibernate setting to true with xfconf-query -c xfce4-session -np '/shutdown/ShowHibernate' -t 'bool' -s 'true' didn't help. But this topic give me the clue I really needed: http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=197t=97684 Really simple. on4aa pointed out that I need a functional swap for hibernate to work. Since I had moved both /home and swap, I thought maybe I should check, and, sure enough, swapon -s listed no active swap. Checking /etc/fstab (Significantly cleaner on this netbook with a fresh f16 than on my aging tower with an install that I've been upgrading since F10 or before.) showed the entry for swap, so I tried swapon -a and got a message about the UUID not matching. Yep. Never fixed it after the move. I guess the dd on the /home partition restored the UUID, since it matches what is in fstab. Anyway, ls -l /dev/disk/by-uuid showed me the new UUID, and I checked the swap partition again with gparted because my memory just ain't what it used to be, and edited the fstab swap entry with the new UUID and now swapon -a turns the swap on and, yay! there is my hibernate button. Thanks for the suggestions, Rick and Bruno. -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
flash updated (11.2 r202) yesterday, strange permissions stuff, no youtube
Per the subject, updated the local copies of flash yesterday (Friday the thirteenth here). No time to check the results yesterday, and today, when my daughter tried to listen to youtube, no joy. So, i checked my shell history yesterday, and I'm pretty sure I skipped the chown step. Checking the permissions/owner flags, however, reveals something very odd. Group was set according to the user. Owner was set to a numerical value 5000+owner. Putting real numbers on this, given the user user519, numerical userid:groupid 519:519, the owner:group for /home/user519/.mozilla/plugin/libflashplayer.so was 5519:519 when I checked this morning. Now, I did not erase the previous version of libflashplayer, so the usual rules for cp without -p or a similar option (as I recall, and I don't see the specifics in the man entry right now) would be to leave the existing owner:group when overwriting. So I should not be surprised had the owner:group been 519:519 in the example above. Needless to say, I don't know of anything but a bug that would give me owner+5000. (Unless I dozed off while my fingers were still typing, as I sometimes do these days. Hate it when I do that. Gotta get more sleep. But I still can't imagine what I might have done, sleep-typing, to end up with that, and I don't see any record of such a thing in my .history file.) And, having chown-ed to (per the example above) user519, flash still refuses to run youtube for us. Anyone else having issues with this version of flash? -- Shockwave Flash 11.2 r202. And anyone have an idea why the owner of a file would end up 5000+userid? -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Login on Fedora 17
On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 12:06 AM, Mark Haney ma...@abemblem.com wrote:
On 04/11/2012 10:34 AM, Paul W. Frields wrote:
You can still login at this prompt with your 'root' account and
password. From that point, you can look at /var/log/Xorg.0.log to see
what happened that caused your X Window System to fail. If you want
to post that for people here to look at and offer advice, please
*don't* attach the file to your email. It will probably be too big
and your message won't come through. Instead, post it somewhere like
http://fpaste.org and send a link to your paste here.
That's true it is a fairly generic question, however, the OP did state he'd
tried to login with root and failed. Sounds to me like X wasn't the only
thing that is having issues.
Although it could be the password he used. I noticed one time that the
password I was using simply wouldn't work on the initial install of Fedora
no matter how many times I installed it. It did work however after changing
it once I got it installed.
Maybe keyboard definition issues?
My hardware tends to be Japanese, and sometimes the difference in key
positions has left me with a root password set assuming US English
layout. Some of the punctuation keys move when the full system boots
and the keyboard definition is correctly set. If I work out what moved
where, I can log in.
But sometimes it's easier to just boot single user and set the
password again. (Don't have all the layouts memorized.)
Lately, I am beginning to doubt the wisdom of always hiding the
password when you're setting it, especially now that proper passwords
are generally understood to be long and convoluted. It would sometimes
be nice to have a Debug keyboard or I've checked, nobody's looking
over my shoulder, and I need to see what I'm typing. button.
Setting up a new system is, statistically speaking, sometimes going to
require some debugging until we can put the WINTEL-pseudo-standard
infected hardware behind us. (And I don't even see Apple trying to do
that, now.)
Of course, you can always try the keys that might have moved --
()[]{}'=;:+*-_\| and so forth -- where you'd type a user name. You
often have to think in reverse, of course, as in, I thought I was
typing left-bracket, what would that have been?
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Re: [OT] Re: Login on Fedora 17
On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 6:07 AM, Joe Zeff j...@zeff.us wrote: On 04/11/2012 01:45 PM, Fernando Cassia wrote: But let's respect the wishes of the list rules enforcers, please. :) And in writing that, you've completely ignored the reason people get pointed to the test list and insulted those doing the pointing. He says you've misinterpreted him, which is another communication sin (in that it doesn't lead to communication) that we are all sometimes prone to. And my purpose in pointing this out is to argue in favor of a little more latitude in general. The test list is intended for people who are using the next, un-released version of Fedora to help one another with issues and find out how to get everything working. Heh. I tend to like to think of that as more as debugging the next version than using it. Which is part of the point I'm going to try to make. All of them are using it, at least part of the time and they're familiar with its issues, quirks and shortfalls. If I'm going to be pedantic, I would say something like, familiar with the issues of debugging, and might have seen the quirks, bugs, and shortfalls. We aren't, because the vast majority of us aren't interested in playing around with beta versions; Technically speaking, we are playing around with the beta versions of Enterprise. we're just interested in getting things done so we stick with the currently supported, officially released versions. Well, some of us are interested in heads-ups and such. But this particular question, the issues and work-arounds are not exactly limited to the test version. In cases where a somewhat experienced user is deciding to take the next step up and be a noob with debugging, he or she is going to want to come back here to ask basic questions from time to time, but the fact that the basic question came up on a test system is still relevant. You don't go to a Linux list to ask Windows questions, so why should you go to a list for the production versions of Fedora to ask about a beta version? Heh. If we were doing stand-up comedy here, that would be a great straight line. I've been itching to say this for several months: Oh, do you mean to say that we should consider MSWindows the alpha version of Fedora? (erk. I really should control myself. If my kids were listening, they would be making the cold, lonely, desert wind sound now.) To me, and probably most of the people reading this, the sensible thing to do is to pick a list where the readers are using the same version you are, and right now, if you're working with F17, that's the test list. If it were just a test question, I'd agree. And, of course, he needs to be communicating with the test and devel lists, so that someone can say, Oh. Sorry. That was my fault. Grab the next version of the image in about an hour. or, Huh? What did I do? Hang on a minute. In the meantime, can you try typing this here and see what happens? or something like that. (I gather that IRC is often better than the mailing list for that, BTW.) But when it comes to, I'm lost! Can someone tell me to turn left or right now in this twisty maze? kinds of questions, we need to be willing to pick up the slack here. The devel and test crew don't need to waste their time suggesting single user mode. Believe it or not, like it or not, pointing members asking about F17 toward the test list *is* helping them because it's telling them where they can get their questions answered. But arguing about what is appropriate here probably doesn't help anyone on either list. Probably doesn't vent the real frustrations, either. -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Login on Fedora 17
On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 8:40 AM, Joe Zeff j...@zeff.us wrote:
On 04/11/2012 04:02 PM, Joel Rees wrote:
Of course, you can always try the keys that might have moved --
()[]{}'=;:+*-_\| and so forth -- where you'd type a user name. You
often have to think in reverse, of course, as in, I thought I was
typing left-bracket, what would that have been?
I don't know if it's practical, but you might be able to print out a
cheat-sheet showing what character maps to what key, possibly from a
different computer. If so, you could use that to get the password in
correctly that one time.
Yeah, if I have another Fedora system handy, I can often nose around
in the X11 setings and other places and get the keyboard definitions
up on a screen.
But, since I know which keys tend to move, it's usually just much
faster to type the password in the wrong place. (I didn't say that
very clearly the first time, did I?)
In other words, where the system prompts for the user name/id, type
the password, instead, and see what actually gets typed in.
(Resisting the habit of hitting the enter key will save some time. If
you're doing this sort of thing for remote login, you never want to
hit enter when you've done this, of course.)
(Especially, if you are doing this kind of thing on a web page
password form, don't hit enter with the password in the user field. If
you do, you want to be able to clear the browser's memory of what you
typed in, or your password becomes visible to a lot of people.)
Or, when someone might be watching, just type the parts that might
have moved. (That would usually be just certain punctuation keys.) Or
type a few characters at a time. You usually don't have to type the
whole password to figure out which keys got moved, or even just see
that keys got moved, so you know you want to fix the password.
If you're not familiar with which keys moved, then, yeah, you may want
to have another system handy for checking what keys are supposed to be
where in the default keyboard map. The first few times take a bit of
effort, which is why it's often quicker to just boot single and fix
the password.
--
Joel Rees
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Re: [OT] Re: Login on Fedora 17
On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 8:50 AM, Joe Zeff j...@zeff.us wrote: On 04/11/2012 04:36 PM, Joel Rees wrote: He says you've misinterpreted him, which is another communication sin (in that it doesn't lead to communication) that we are all sometimes prone to. As I wrote before, I wasn't personally offended by it, Yeah, I was thinking I maybe should have put a I'm not talking to you, Jeff. at the top. but I've seen enough people on this list recently being (what I consider) unreasonably thin-skinned that I was fairly sure that somebody was going to find it offensive. I also know full well that if the OP was, in fact, trying to be insulting he wouldn't care when I pointed it out, but if it was accidental my comment might be all that was needed to avoid further incidents. The danger with sarcasm. Heh. (I'm NEVER sarcastic, right?) And, yes, in this case, the question wasn't F17 specific, just phrased that way and in any event, I don't mind the occasional question of that nature although I rarely if ever have anything to contribute to such discussions. The whole point of my post, in fact, was to point out that we're getting more questions about the next Fedora release than we usually do and to wonder why. Any thoughts about that? Well, we could use the positive mental attitude approach and assume that more of the users are getting the courage up to go help test? (Which is a good thing. Wish I had time and hardware.) -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: [OT] Re: Login on Fedora 17
On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 8:50 AM, Joe Zeff j...@zeff.us wrote: On 04/11/2012 04:36 PM, Joel Rees wrote: He says you've misinterpreted him, which is another communication sin (in that it doesn't lead to communication) that we are all sometimes prone to. As I wrote before, I wasn't personally offended by it, Yeah, I was thinking I maybe should put a I'm not talking to you, Jeff. at the top. but I've seen enough people on this list recently being (what I consider) unreasonably thin-skinned that I was fairly sure that somebody was going to find it offensive. I also know full well that if the OP was, in fact, trying to be insulting he wouldn't care when I pointed it out, but if it was accidental my comment might be all that was needed to avoid further incidents. The danger with sarcasm. Heh. And, yes, in this case, the question wasn't F17 specific, just phrased that way and in any event, I don't mind the occasional question of that nature although I rarely if ever have anything to contribute to such discussions. The whole point of my post, in fact, was to point out that we're getting more questions about the next Fedora release than we usually do and to wonder why. Any thoughts about that? Well, I could use the positive mental attitude approach and assume that more of the users are getting the courage up to go help test? -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
F16, XFCE/LXDE and hibernate button
Anybody using XFCE or LXDE who are missing their hibernate button in the logout dialog after the recent kernel upgrade? Or should I suspect that moving the /home partition to a new partition yesterday is to blame? (Need to look up what I have to do with SELinux after a move like this. I remember there's something that needs to be done, don't remember exactly what.) -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: F16, XFCE/LXDE and hibernate button
On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 9:50 AM, Rick Stevens rstev...@corp.alldigital.com wrote: On 04/10/2012 03:55 PM, Joel Rees wrote: Anybody using XFCE or LXDE who are missing their hibernate button in the logout dialog after the recent kernel upgrade? Which new kernel? I'm running 3.3.1-3.fc16.x86_64 and I see it. 3.3.1-3.fc16.i686 If you're getting yours, it probably is not the kernel, so, ... Or should I suspect that moving the /home partition to a new partition yesterday is to blame? Possibly. (Need to look up what I have to do with SELinux after a move like this. I remember there's something that needs to be done, don't remember exactly what.) restorecon -R -v /home I believe. Yeah. Restore context. That's one thing I need to do. Reset a bunch of context. but there's still no hibernate. Durn. But thanks. -- - Rick Stevens, Systems Engineer, AllDigital ri...@alldigital.com - - AIM/Skype: therps2 ICQ: 22643734 Yahoo: origrps2 - - - - If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, - - in five years there'd be a shortage of sand. - - -- Milton Friedman - -- I know what Friedman meant, and it sure would be nice if we could put the Feds in charge of keeping the nuclear waste from going away, but I don't think that would really work the way we want it too. Heh. (Sigh.) Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: users, private groups, and The Unix Way (was, Re: Is it me or is it sudo?)
On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 3:27 PM, Tim ignored_mail...@yahoo.com.au wrote: Tim: It always struck me that personal files ought to have no group or world permissions set by default. If you wanted your files to have those extra permission set, then it ought to be done as a deliberate choice. Joel Rees: Maybe user-id is mis-named. There are sure a lot of people who tend to see user-id and expect the one-to-one correspondence. I know the conflation caused me some frustration back in college, and I'm not In case it helps: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/conflation sure I got it properly worked out until I put together a few openbsd systems. I don't see any reason why it should be anything else, and that it's more of a conflagration to try and do it any other way. Well, there is a reason some people don't want universal ID, for example. It's a lot broader topic than you may want to believe. It's similar to the reason your httpd and ftpd (ntpd, nfs daemon, database daemons, etc.) are operating as separate users, and are run by yet another daemon operating as yet another user. Sure, there's /some/ added security in separated accounts for different activities, and some added privacy s/some/a lot of/ if you set it up right. (just recently it's become even more annoying how if you've logged into one service, you suddenly find that other things you're looking at have you logged in as a user rather than an anonymous browser). Not a particularly recent phenomenon. But there's a lot of mess in when you need to be able to bridge between those different accounts (read and write to the files you saved in the other account). Unless you have per-user groups and set the permissions right, in which case it becomes a small, non-repetitive matter of navigation. And if you make that dead easy to do, you've negated the point of using different accounts. And sudoers.d, of course. Otherwise, I'd have to say s/some/no/ above. And I certainly don't want to log in three times over, how ever you organise it, to read my email, browse web pages (related, or not, to the email I'm reading), write in a word processor (which may involve browsing some webpages, and copying and pasting), simultaneously. I don't log in as three separate users to surf, mail, and work. Just one. xhost local:subuser-id; sudo -u subuser-id does pretty well with current applications. Now, if I'm going to my bank site, I do log out and log in as a different user, just to be extra safe. If I have to start shopping on line, I'm going to have to re-examine my setup. Unfortunately, shopping sites don't seem to understand that a person might want to remain anonymous while filling his or her basket, until the point where money has to be paid. I'll probably set up a shopping login account, with child accounts for different on-line stores, or perhaps different classes of stores. -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: users, private groups, and The Unix Way (was, Re: Is it me or is it sudo?)
(woops, missed the user list) On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 5:47 PM, Bryn M. Reeves b...@redhat.com wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 04/03/2012 08:10 AM, Joel Rees wrote: On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 3:27 PM, Tim ignored_mail...@yahoo.com.au wrote: s/some/a lot of/ if you set it up right. It can still do a fair amount of nasty stuff. xhost local:subuser-id; sudo -u subuser-id does pretty well with current applications. You're allowing the local sandbox user to connect to the local X server so any process running in one of your sandboxes can start a connection to X and start looking for vulnerabilities to exploit. Of which X11 still has its share, we are told. Humor me. Does running firefox this way, as a different user on the same machine, increase risks, as compared to running firefox as the user you are logged in as? If so, how? Due to the elevated privilege with which X runs this could include privilege escalations. Okay, so why doesn't Fedora drop privileges on Xorg like a certain BSD does? There have been vulnerabilities of this kind in the past that allowed an attacker to quickly gain a root shell given the ability to connect to the X server. Well, sure. That's going to happen when you run a server as root. But does it open holes to run the application accessing X as a different user? ergo, holes that wouldn't be open when running the same application as the user you logged in as? Now, if I'm going to my bank site, I do log out and log in as a different user, just to be extra safe. Now, I want to make it clear that I recognize that, if the bad guys have succeeded in taking over the bank site, restricting my internet banking access to an account that I do nothing else with doesn't protect me, relative to that bank. It may keep up some speed bumps and low walls relative to attacks on my machine, of course. I think you'd be better off taking a look at Daniel Walsh's blog posts on confining X applications with the SELinux sandbox. The first post introduces and explains the general sandbox concept: I am familiar with the sandbox principle, in several versions, thank you. Not that one more point of view or version ever hurt. http://danwalsh.livejournal.com/28545.html This blog could help me figure out SELinux's ACL tools, which, if I continue to use Fedora, it looks like I'll have to learn to use. In self-defense, if for no other reason. And the follow up looks at extending this to untrusted X applications using a temporary xguest account (with dynamic $HOME and $TMP) and the Xephyr X-on-X server to provide much stronger separation between the sandbox and the rest of the system: http://danwalsh.livejournal.com/31146.html I notice that he is using mount-over tricks to augment the protections. Fancy or funky? I'll have to re-read that when I have time. Fedora already provides contexts to use with the sandbox such as sandbox_x_t, sandbox_web_t, sandbox_net_t etc. depending on the particular resources you want to allow the sandbox to access. You know, one of the problems with ACLs (and capabilities) is getting them set up right. And you know how it ends up? Well, as you say, and as Walsh acknowledges, The post discusses future improvements to simplify retrieving files from the sandbox when the application exits but I'm not sure of the current status of that work. I've been trying to avoid what I'm sure amounts to blasphemy in the eyes of some on these lists, but I am not particularly fond of SELinux. Way too many convolutions to hide bugs in. If X11 must be assumed to have bugs, so much more, the more recent and more complicated SELinux, especially in the patterns by which the tools to set policy are run. I'm going to prefer to trust tools I can understand. -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: users, private groups, and The Unix Way (was, Re: Is it me or is it sudo?)
On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 9:31 PM, Tim ignored_mail...@yahoo.com.au wrote: On Tue, 2012-04-03 at 16:10 +0900, Joel Rees wrote: Well, there is a reason some people don't want universal ID, for example. It's a lot broader topic than you may want to believe. It's similar to the reason your httpd and ftpd (ntpd, nfs daemon, database daemons, etc.) are operating as separate users, and are run by yet another daemon operating as yet another user. But those /are/ separate users, to apply the user analogy to machines rather than people. On my personal machines, they are me, doing separate tasks. If I insist on looking at everything I do on the computer as me. Of course, I suppose you could say that the httpd is the author of the daemon doing stuff on your computer that you asked him to, in which case, the httpd is clearly not the user-id he would log in to on your machine if he had some reason to do so. There are different ways of looking at things, and, yes, I'm advocating a point of view you aren't used to or don't like or something. On the other hand, when I'm browsing, typing, reading, mailing, downloading, whatever, I am just one person. Maybe, maybe not. But did I say I would use a different user-id for each application? If so, I misspoke. (I don't think I said that, however.) I know that when I go to Amazon, for instance, I usually do not want them to know who I am. Thus, when I'm browsing Amazon's web pages, I probably will use a different subuser than when I am writing e-mail on the list here (using Google Mail's web interface). You seem to be advocating changing user logons from what they are, to something else. Muddying things up with application sandboxing. I'm advocating returning them back to what they were in early Unix, IDs under which to run a set of related tasks. Sometimes those related tasks happened to have an approximate one-to-one correspondence to physical humans. Definitely not always, except on systems that had BOFH admins. (Those admins were seriously lacking in understanding of the systems they were supposed to be administrating, thus the tendency to refer to them as BOsFH.) But the term user-id came, not from the human user, but from a bit of jargon in which user tasks were anything not system, and, in Unix, the concept was that the system was another user task, thus the root user. Tim: Sure, there's /some/ added security in separated accounts for different activities, and some added privacy s/some/a lot of/ if you set it up right. Until you have to do something that crosses over from one to the other (such as an email that requires website confirmation), and at that point all your quarantining gets instantly negated, past and present. I've done exactly that, numerous times. I prefer the reply method over the web browser URL method, but when the former is not offered, I just copy the URL into the clipboard and paste it into the browser running as a subuser. Yeah, I am aware that the fact of the shared paste buffer is evidence that the wall is porous. But if a web site downloads something into the subuser's browser, it goes into the subuser's download folder or cookies or whatever. Oh, I forget, flash is a pig. Doesn't run in the subuser. So I don't go to sites that require flash in my work user. Yeah, when I shift to that mode, I log out of the work user and log in to my play user. That is no fun, because I can't listen to Heart or APP on youtube while I'm logged in as my work user. But, really, if I want to listen to music while I work, I don't have to be listening off of youtube. There are other ways. (just recently it's become even more annoying how if you've logged into one service, you suddenly find that other things you're looking at have you logged in as a user rather than an anonymous browser). Not a particularly recent phenomenon. I know it's not a new thing, but *recently* it seemed to have become worse. In the past, there was the outcry against Microsoft's Passport, as the universal logon, and one login to the system, of which people will probably remain logged into during their entire session, fingerprints everything that they do. Between then and now, it seemed that most major online services were quite independent from each other (e.g. what you did on eBay wasn't reflected on Amazon, etc.). More recently, the same sort of thing (as Passport) happened again with Google, YouTube, Yahoo, and probably some others becoming joined in one way or another, behind the scenes, as they've bought into each other. You log into one, e.g. so you can leave a comment on something in YouTube, and suddenly you notice that you're logged into Google, databasing every thing you do from then on, personally. Well, Blogspot and youtube are Google, so it's not unreasonable for those logins to be shared. You can turn the sharing off, IIRC. Between Google and Yahoo, you have to tell both that you want to share logins. At least, that's
Re: users, private groups, and The Unix Way (was, Re: Is it me or is it sudo?)
On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 2:05 AM, Bryn M. Reeves b...@redhat.com wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 04/03/2012 04:56 PM, Joel Rees wrote: Good point. I don't visit those sites, and it's important for me to mention that. No p0rn, period, and many of the moral reasons are in There are a lot of perfectly family-friendly websites whose administrators I do not trust as far as I could throw them (even if I knew where they were). Exactly. I guess, though, that I am willing to use a separate login on those sites, rather than separate hardware on a separate segment of the internal network at home. At work, it would depend on what I'm working on. in the subuser's directory tree. Again not perfect, but a bit of a higher wall than a speed bump. If the payload targets an X vulnerability there is no difference. I assume that payloads that target the X vulnerability are significantly fewer. Not perfect, but you match the measures with the threat and your budget. License issues? Getting the source should be now problem. Upstream first - Fedora goes out of its way to get new features into the distribution by getting them into the projects it packages upstream (often by doing the work upstream). There are occasional exceptions but it's very unusual for Fedora to take a large set of changes from another downstream packager before they get merged. Woops. Guess I was forgetting that Fedora is not maintaining its own X11. address space the X server can access Theo de Raadt has said this is just the best we can do. What he means by that is a bit different from what you would mean by that. Thank you for enlightening as to what I meant (although what you assume I mean by that may not be the same as what I actually meant when I wrote it). Well, from where I sit, I have to guess that the openbsd engineers doing the aperture work are a bit more on top of the technical details than you. And I think you admit that. That's the gap I'm talking about. It is a relatively high wall, compared to some walls. to defeat, enough so that social engineering or bruteforcing tend to be preferred. Unless you have someone specifically targeting your network, in which case, you really have to restrict what you do on That's not the case at all. It's just a more constrained interface to the same thing (and Linux is fairly restrictive about that these days too). A smaller attack surface doesn't mean that you need targeted attacks; almost certainly if someone discovered an exploitable flaw in this it could be developed into an easily deployed local exploit just like any other. But tell me about real exploits. What I understood from Theo's statement is that while it tightens some avenues for exploit development the basic model of exposing hardware to a userspace process (privileged or not) is broken. Not everybody agrees but there is a lack of a usable alternative right now. Theo is dead right on that. Intel failed us on the processor design and only recently accepted the responsibility of providing MMU functions to enable making executable store non-writeable. There's a long way to go there, and, while the old 68K had the MMU capability in the architecture, competing with INTEL pushed the industry to fail to support it in the circuitry external to the CPU. And then, when the graphics processor manufacturers started up, there was no pressure to get it right, and a lot of pressure to not bother. Excessive competition is as much a sin as deliberate fraud. As is complacency (and collaboration) on the part of the OS vendors. (I say plural because there were alternatives to Microsoft in the mid-80s.) He also goes on to state that X: violates all the security models you will hear of in a university class. due to the exposure of the device registers, memory space and I/O ports to userspace (drivers in userspace model) and that the X developers are a bunch of shameless vendor-loving lapdogs who sure are taking their time at solving this 10 year old problem. I am sure such words would motivate me to help him if I worked on X. Since soft words have failed to motivate the vendors, hard words are necessary. Yeah, it's going to be relatively slow. But it would be nice to have that as an option. (Most of what I do would not suffer significantly.) There are vesa drivers in Fedora. I have no idea how difficult it would be to coax them into running unprivileged but if it interests you you might want to look into it. Wish I had time. I don't really have time to be writing this. Kind of like seatbelts. You have to regularly ask yourself if they encourage dangerous driving, and check your habits if you're getting sloppy. The evidence base disagrees here. Multiple studies find large declines in casualty figures following introduction of mandatory seatbelt laws: http://jech.highwire.org/content/43/3/218.full.pdf http://tinyurl.com/bu6ymdn [jstor] I'm not going to log
Re: sugar-desktop group? (idle question)
On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 2:56 PM, Danishka Navin danis...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 11:22 AM, Joel Rees joel.r...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 10:52 AM, Danishka Navin danis...@gmail.com wrote: yum groupinstall 'Sugar Desktop Environment' Not exactly the question I was asking, but, hmm. Okay, sugar-desktop shows up on the group list command on F16. But not on my F15 box, even though I did a groupinstall of sugar-desktop on F15. Unless I've been consistently mis-typing sugar-desktop on F15. i have tested about command before giving to you here for me it appears under 'Installed Groups:' for yum grouplist Okay, now I see. yum grouplist | grep sugar is case sensitive, and I guess I didn't notice that the list does not output in the sugar-desktop format. Sorry to bother you. And, thanks. On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 5:10 AM, Joel Rees joel.r...@gmail.com wrote: Not a really important question, but does anyone know why sugar-desktop doesn't show when you do a yum grouplist? (I suppose I should get back on the sugar lists.) -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
users, private groups, and The Unix Way (was, Re: Is it me or is it sudo?)
On Sat, Mar 31, 2012 at 7:04 PM, Tim ignored_mail...@yahoo.com.au wrote: On Fri, 2012-03-30 at 20:39 +0100, James Wilkinson wrote: From there, it follows that the easiest way to do this is to make 002 the default umask, which means that all new files and directories created by normal users have these permissions. That means that if you want files that only their owner can write to, you need a per-user group. It always struck me that personal files ought to have no group or world permissions set by default. If you wanted your files to have those extra permission set, then it ought to be done as a deliberate choice. Maybe user-id is mis-named. There are sure a lot of people who tend to see user-id and expect the one-to-one correspondence. I know the conflation caused me some frustration back in college, and I'm not sure I got it properly worked out until I put together a few openbsd systems. Anyway, it should be clear that a system administrator should not be logged in as a system administrator when he or she is just writing an e-mail scheduling meetings or something. But even ordinary (human) users should not be surfing the web as the user they logged in as, and I'm not talking about keeping my boss from checking my cache for visits to slashdot or whatever. As the system administrator for my home box, I want to be able to log in as a normal user that is not tainted by my the web sites I visited last time I logged in. That means I have a separate administrator user. I want one user-id/group-id pair for each bank I have to visit, so that, even if we can't get the banks to use special-purpose browsers for the money transactions, I can protect the bank data from the guys that want to mine my data for their gain, including the other banks. (Special purpose browsers are preferred, of course.) And when I need to go surfing through blogs for news, I don't want to do that with the user I logged in as. Even if/when we can get rid of the sloppy programming practices Microsoft and their ilk promote, we can't be sure we have every hole plugged, so it's just going to be safer to do that as a user that isn't allowed to log in. That means that, even though I log out of my worker user and log back in as my play user, I still want to spawn a nologin user from there to surf. (This is not pure paranoia. I checked out a company for a job and discovered that Google had flagged their site as containing malware, and the guy who ran the company did not have the financial means or motivation to hire someone to clean the server up. Scared of having to move off the vulnerable tools he was using, trying to meet a market window that was fast disappearing, all the excuses.) Incidentally, I'm doing this much now, using xhost local and sudo. (If you're curious, http://reiisi.blogspot.jp/2011/08/simple-sandbox-for-firefox.html is my blog from when I first got it running. I need to re-write that explanation, which is part of the reason I'm writing this long-winded post now. But I still have issues with the input method that I need to solve. And I need to write some scripts so I don't have to all the tweaks by hand every time.) And I glue it together with per-user groups. Without per-user groups, I would have to go through serious admin-level contortions to grab a download. Does that make sense? -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: F16 security spin, LibreOffice instabilities
On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 12:53 PM, nomnex nom...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 15:18:00 +0900 Joel Rees joel.r...@gmail.com wrote: Lenovo S-100 pseudo-netbook (intel 64 running 32 bit) with Fedora installed from the F16 Security spin (LXDE) live USB. Posted earlier, no response, about it generally hanging the X11 session on logout if I switch to a virtual console to do something while logged in on an X11 session. Can telinit 2 and 5 to get it back once or twice. Trying to use LibreOffice, if I open more than one document, quitting tends to kill the panel, leaving things in an awkward, partially functioning state. Can keep doing things I don't need the panel for. I'm sure I need some library for LibreOffice that didn't get picked up in the dependency check when I installed it. Anyone have a suggestion? The cause is likely the LXPanel only. You could search for the thread: Re: [PM] lxpanel keeps crashing with Libre Office, on the lxde mailing archive list. There is a workaround (but it is not very productive). Or: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=803098 for information. Okay, that does look like it's not a LibreOffice issue. LXDE panel has currently no maintainer Oh. Not good news. Kind of wish I had time to volunteer, but I have too many other things at higher priority, so that's never going to happen. and I was collecting all the bugs on this particular notebook, among which: LO, ibus, Firefox icons were making the panel freeze. I have installed xfce-panel, at last. And everything works fine now. I've been happy with XFCE, so I just installed that (and sugar, for fun) yesterday, and there are no problems in XFCE sessions. -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
sugar-desktop group? (idle question)
Not a really important question, but does anyone know why sugar-desktop doesn't show when you do a yum grouplist? (I suppose I should get back on the sugar lists.) -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: sugar-desktop group? (idle question)
On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 10:52 AM, Danishka Navin danis...@gmail.com wrote: yum groupinstall 'Sugar Desktop Environment' Not exactly the question I was asking, but, hmm. Okay, sugar-desktop shows up on the group list command on F16. But not on my F15 box, even though I did a groupinstall of sugar-desktop on F15. Unless I've been consistently mis-typing sugar-desktop on F15. On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 5:10 AM, Joel Rees joel.r...@gmail.com wrote: Not a really important question, but does anyone know why sugar-desktop doesn't show when you do a yum grouplist? (I suppose I should get back on the sugar lists.) -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
F16 security spin, LibreOffice instabilities
Lenovo S-100 pseudo-netbook (intel 64 running 32 bit) with Fedora installed from the F16 Security spin (LXDE) live USB. Posted earlier, no response, about it generally hanging the X11 session on logout if I switch to a virtual console to do something while logged in on an X11 session. Can telinit 2 and 5 to get it back once or twice. Trying to use LibreOffice, if I open more than one document, quitting tends to kill the panel, leaving things in an awkward, partially functioning state. Can keep doing things I don't need the panel for. I'm sure I need some library for LibreOffice that didn't get picked up in the dependency check when I installed it. Anyone have a suggestion? -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora disimprovements: am I alone?
I'll just note that you are not alone in questioning the wisdom of the current directions. (Yeah, plural. That's part of the problem.) Not alone in your frustrations, either. -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: openbox not fully logging out
On Sun, Mar 11, 2012 at 8:38 AM, Joel Rees joel.r...@gmail.com wrote: Filed a bug on this, redhat bugzilla 80286 On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 10:01 AM, Joel Rees joel.r...@gmail.com wrote: I have openbox (from the F16 security live image via live USB install) on a lenovo s100 and, sometime in the last couple of kernel updates, it likes to hang up on logging out. Switch to a virtual console and do a ps, and openbox is there's a leftover process that won't die. I've been able to do telinit 2 and then log back in and telinit 5 to bring it back, but the next time I tried that without re-booting, it just hung. (Not sure what target I would be specifying for systemctl Not sure what to look for in /var/log. Okay, at a suggestion concerning issues with Libreoffice, I decided to SWAG and re-install LXDE. yum group erase LXDE you group install LXDE It now logs out okay. I also (group) installed XFCE on a whim, so I am not sure whether that might have something to do with it. (Silly me.) -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: openbox not fully logging out
Erk. Za Bog Numer. Ji baggu no bango. On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 6:34 PM, Joel Rees joel.r...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Mar 11, 2012 at 8:38 AM, Joel Rees joel.r...@gmail.com wrote: Filed a bug on this, redhat bugzilla 80286 Make that bugzilla 802086. On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 10:01 AM, Joel Rees joel.r...@gmail.com wrote: I have openbox (from the F16 security live image via live USB install) on a lenovo s100 and, sometime in the last couple of kernel updates, it likes to hang up on logging out. Switch to a virtual console and do a ps, and openbox is there's a leftover process that won't die. I've been able to do telinit 2 and then log back in and telinit 5 to bring it back, but the next time I tried that without re-booting, it just hung. (Not sure what target I would be specifying for systemctl Not sure what to look for in /var/log. Okay, at a suggestion concerning issues with Libreoffice, I decided to SWAG and re-install LXDE. yum group erase LXDE you group install LXDE It now logs out okay. I also (group) installed XFCE on a whim, so I am not sure whether that might have something to do with it. (Silly me.) -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: F16 security spin, LibreOffice instabilities
On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 4:00 PM, Joe Zeff j...@zeff.us wrote: On 03/29/2012 11:18 PM, Joel Rees wrote: I'm sure I need some library for LibreOffice that didn't get picked up in the dependency check when I installed it. Anyone have a suggestion? Try having yum reinstall it. First I tried re-installing LXDE, and that actually may have taken care of the problem with LXDE freezing on logout. Then I tried yum group erase Office/Productivity (checking yum group list) and the corollary group install. No change for LibreOffice. Still kills the panel on the way out. -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Is it me or is it sudo?
On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 10:48 PM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote: Am 28.03.2012 15:43, schrieb suvayu ali: On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 15:35, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote: Am 28.03.2012 15:26, schrieb suvayu ali: On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 15:18, Mark Haney ma...@abemblem.com wrote: markh ALL=(ALL) NOPASSWD: ALL This should be: %markh ALL=(ALL) NOPASSWD: ALL why? this would mean GROUP markh see examples in /etc/sudoers! Because I did _mean_ group markh. I had overlooked that you could specify individual users too. Since by default all users belong to a group named after itself, specifying as a group should work too. one of the odd defaults many are not using why should i have a group with the name of my user if it has only one user - or why should i put the user caroline in group harry except for chaos no idea who invented this silly default, however, do not assume all people are using defaults all the time It was invented by a number of people who understood how to get along without ACLs and capabilities and all the stupid machinery necessary to support them. Adding ACLs and capabilities to a *nix system is like giving the car owner a rope to tie his car door shut when there's already a perfectly good lock on the door. Or screen doors on a submarine, take your pick. -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Is it me or is it sudo?
On Sat, Mar 31, 2012 at 4:39 AM, James Wilkinson fed...@aprilcottage.co.uk wrote: Reindl Harald wrote: sounds more you do not understand what ACLs are for how could a private user group replace ACLs? if you have different users and groups which needs defined permissions you will always need ACLs because chmod can only reflect the primary group for restrict access to a single user you need no ACL chmod 600 does this for you It was in the old Red Hat Linux manuals (for example, section 6.4.1 of ftp://archive.download.redhat.com/pub/redhat/linux/7.3/en/doc/RH-DOCS/pdf-en/rhl-rg-en.pdf): IF you want a shared directory (say a project directory) writeable by some but not all users, AND IF you don’t want to use ACLs¹, THEN you need to have that directory and everything in it owned by a suitable group (and set to be group-writeable). IF you don’t want to have users having to play around with ownership and permissions all the time, THEN you need to have the setgid bit on the folder set (which makes all new files and directories automatically have the appropriate group) AND you need to have umask set to 002 (which makes all new files and directories group-writeable). From there, it follows that the easiest way to do this is to make 002 the default umask, which means that all new files and directories created by normal users have these permissions. That means that if you want files that only their owner can write to, you need a per-user group. It makes perfect sense. James. ¹ This predated Linux ACLs, anyway. And, of course, there are plenty of other ways to use per-user groups, once you get your head around the idea that there is no one-to-one relationship between user-ids and physical users. One thing we didn't write back then, that we should have, was a sub-user tool similar to the user tool -- subuser add/edit/delete/etc It would have to incorporate user types, implicit/default quota heuristics and other stuff that we didn't want to deal with then, but find ourselves dealing with now, and it would use the setuid bit, so each user could set up and get rid of his/her own private user/group combos. Combine that with sudo, and we could have had sandboxed apps years and years ago. (With a bit of work, but not near what ACLs and their ilk cost us.) That was the unix way, and we have parted from it to our detriment. -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: US ISPs become 'copyright cops' starting July 12
On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 6:46 AM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote: Am 17.03.2012 22:30, schrieb Jim: On 03/17/2012 01:24 PM, Reindl Harald wrote: Am 17.03.2012 14:34, schrieb Jim: I know this may not be the place for this post, but when it comes to software, how are these ISP's going to treat Open Source Softwre ? http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2012/03/17/us-isps-become-copyright-cops-starting-july-12/?intcmp=features what exactly let you imagine taht this has ANYTHING to do with OpenSource? What exactly does anyone think this has not to do with open source? Freedom is freedom. When it comes to downloading how do they know the difference between OSS and a copy of MS software. That is what concerns me. jesus christ Are you praying? If not, to what purpose do you invoke this name? and when it comes to play a self-made video or big images are ona webpage so someone thinks it could be a download leads also to a problem? You like deep inspection of your packets? what me really scares are people like you which really believe there is sitting the whole day someone analyzing each transfer and blocking randomly things Perhaps it scares you so much to think of such things that you ignore the daily news? NSA anyone? To non-geeks, software is about what happens in the mind, and there are definitely plenty of people who are silly enough to want to control what's happening in your mind. That they are silly does not make them any less dangerous when the governments of the various countries are giving their efforts a listening ear. If you want to be able to use a free-as-in-freedom OS ten years down the road, this kind of stuff is relevant. Sure, long discussions here are kind of off-topic, but the heads-up is not. (And those who complained about the post being OT are the ones who dragged the list into the discussion, if you ask me.) -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: openbox not fully logging out
Filed a bug on this, redhat bugzilla 80286 On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 10:01 AM, Joel Rees joel.r...@gmail.com wrote: I have openbox (from the F16 security live image via live USB install) on a lenovo s100 and, sometime in the last couple of kernel updates, it likes to hang up on logging out. Switch to a virtual console and do a ps, and openbox is there's a leftover process that won't die. I've been able to do telinit 2 and then log back in and telinit 5 to bring it back, but the next time I tried that without re-booting, it just hung. (Not sure what target I would be specifying for systemctl Not sure what to look for in /var/log. -- Joel Rees -- -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
openbox not fully logging out
I have openbox (from the F16 security live image via live USB install) on a lenovo s100 and, sometime in the last couple of kernel updates, it likes to hang up on logging out. Switch to a virtual console and do a ps, and openbox is there's a leftover process that won't die. I've been able to do telinit 2 and then log back in and telinit 5 to bring it back, but the next time I tried that without re-booting, it just hung. (Not sure what target I would be specifying for systemctl Not sure what to look for in /var/log. -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: GRUB2 / Kernel-Parameters
ramdisk ...' initrd /initramfs-3.2.9-2.fc16.x86_64.img } ### END /etc/grub.d/10_linux.save ### ### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/20_linux_xen ### ### END /etc/grub.d/20_linux_xen ### ### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/30_os-prober ### ### END /etc/grub.d/30_os-prober ### ### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/40_custom ### # This file provides an easy way to add custom menu entries. Simply type the # menu entries you want to add after this comment. Be careful not to change # the 'exec tail' line above. ### END /etc/grub.d/40_custom ### ### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/41_custom ### if [ -f $prefix/custom.cfg ]; then source $prefix/custom.cfg; fi ### END /etc/grub.d/41_custom ### ### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/90_persistent ### ### END /etc/grub.d/90_persistent ### done -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org -- -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: ...kernel module signing on x86??? Why?
On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 7:58 PM, Joshua C. joshua...@googlemail.com wrote: 2012/3/9 Alan Cox a...@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk: So you can stop a third party tampering with the modules on your system, while keeping the ability to do so yourself. It's all about who owns the keys. If you own the keys it becomes a useful security feature to some users. Alan Put in other words: You cannot do anything with the distro-realeased modules because they should be signed. If the distro key is publicly available then any third party can use it and sign his modules. So I have to recompile the whole kernel (all modules inclusive) and resign them with my own key so that only I can temper with them. In both cases I need to recomplie the kernel once again... just for nothing. Honestly I think this is an extra burden for the developers/people who modifiy often their kernels. --joshua Another case of making things harder than they should be so that ordinary people won't jump through the hoops, but more so that the people with the money to sue with can use the threat of lawsuits against the people who would dare act independently. As long as the DMCS stands, people are going to keep re-inventing things to add patented and copyrighted junk in an effort to force as many people as possible into their revenue stream. Waste the world away building a society of plenty, then lock it down with artificial scarcity. So that they think they can make everyone pay them to tell them what to do. Demigods and IP demagogues. -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
unusable encrypted volume on a live USB
This was my second try at a live USB, and I decided to experiment with an encrypted volume for /home. Used a bunch of leetsp3@k substitutions without thinking about the keyboard, so I can't mount the partition on boot. So, I'm wondering how hard it would be to reclaim the part of the flash disk being used for the encrypted volume, or whether it might just be easier to wipe the live image and start over. Can someone point me to the stuff the live images use to put encrypted volumes on these FAT disks? I tend to get lost in all the interesting side paths when I dig into the wiki without guidance. -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: unusable encrypted volume on a live USB (because of passphrase)
(I wish I would quit forgetting important details.) On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 5:47 PM, Joel Rees joel.r...@gmail.com wrote: This was my second try at a live USB, and I decided to experiment with an encrypted volume for /home. Used a bunch of leetsp3@k substitutions ... I mean, for the passphrase ... without thinking about the keyboard, so I can't mount the partition on boot. So, I'm wondering how hard it would be to reclaim the part of the flash disk being used for the encrypted volume, or whether it might just be easier to wipe the live image and start over. Can someone point me to the stuff the live images use to put encrypted volumes on these FAT disks? I tend to get lost in all the interesting side paths when I dig into the wiki without guidance. -- Joel Rees -- -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: tr equivalent to sed command
2012/2/25 夜神 岩男 supergiantpot...@yahoo.co.jp: On 02/25/2012 12:43 PM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: On Fri, 2012-02-24 at 21:22 +0900, 夜神 岩男 wrote: I'm trying to move a script from invoking lots of sed and awk to bash builtins and I'm stumped on something I'm sure is simple. Is there a tr equivalent to the following? [...] You realize that tr is not a Bash builtin, right? No, I didn't check, actually, thanks for pointing that out. The tr command is probably easier for some of the younger folks who will have to read this later on[1]. Now I'm curious and might run some tests on the two versions and see which is quicker -- though that's totally not the point with scripting (well, isn't supposed to be, anyway). -IY 1. Rantesque continuation: ...as they seem so allergic to learning one or two sed commands that they will instead implement a parse/convert library from scratch in their favorite vanity language complete with intermediate working files and locks... and viola, new dependencies, attack vectors, opportunities for frozen jobs, etc are born. Hey, come on, no need to blame that all on the younger guys. Some of us old codgers like to do that, too. :-/ [...] (What seems clear one day for me is not the next. And I was hoping to grow old gracefully. :() -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Neal Becker Software Package..?
On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 4:48 AM, Christopher Svanefalk christopher.svanef...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 12:30 PM, Tim ignored_mail...@yahoo.com.au wrote: Tim: I participate in no web forums, because they're such a pain. And I've yet to see a single one to convince me otherwise. (insert word able between one and to) Joe Zeff: And as long as you never look, you never will. I said participate. Of course I've *seen* forums, that's how I *know* they're a pain. Forums, when implemented properly, are superior to any kind of mailing list. I would potentially agree that forums could be done right. I haven't seen many. Actually, google does a fairly nice job with theirs, but they miss a few points. Blogged about it recently (look me up if you're interested in what some random maniac said), but I think I didn't really get my blog right, either. We need to set up a new newsgroup protocol that combines both, and adds the option of allowing registered users to post through a newsgroup-only address. Then the users don't have to expose their private addresses. And the archive web pages, which should be part of the protocol, should provide thread headers, so that you can keep the threads intact. which means that your reader/MUA needs to be able to add those headers. Google gets close with their webmail, but not quite, really. Gmane also almost gets there, but they don't have enough horse power to cover all the newsgroups they cover. (Haven't figured out how to add headers with sylpheed, yet, but I'm sure it's in there somewhere.) (Hmm. The more we add to this thread, the higher Linda's post thread gets ranked in searches, but the less damage to the innocent bystander -- statistically -- it does. I was going to suggest breaking/stopping the thread, but burying it seems like a good option, too.) -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: dumb question [on scripting]
On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Paul Allen Newell pnew...@cs.cmu.edu wrote: [inline] On 1/4/2012 10:08 PM, g wrote: 'wiz kids' of today have no concept of what 'the good old days' where like. That may be a blessing as quite a few of the good old day were really bad old days. you had things easier than i because you worked 'mainframe' where you at least had someone to ask. i had myself and an s100 box with dialup bbs and an 'outside dialin' to access local college 'mainframe' to search it's files and out thru arpanet to other colleges to search. slow, but it usually got results. but I bet you learned more about how to survive with a computer given the availability of someone to ask wasn't something you could count on. if you look at 10th hit, 'Bash Guide for Beginners', 'Table of Contents', you will see it is main for 5th hit. wherein 'Introduction 1.', 1st paragraph gives a good description of what it is all about. 'Table of Contents' does show a good breakdown of sections and should lend to quick finding of what you may need. i have never really found anything short for what i wanted to know about bash or anything else that i needed to find out more about, but i can say that 'tdlp' has covered pretty much of what i was looking for. I suspect (and hope) this material will keep me off the list for awhile (smile) most all of my assembler work has been for controllers and c and c++ where just too much bloat to do what i needed. plus, with al, i never had to worry of stack or buffer over flow. ;) My machine code was when there was nothing else and my assembler was in the early video games days where all you got was a 4K cartridge and most of the time was spent trying to pack a much larger program into that bloody cartridge. But assembler was good for me in that it taught me alot about being clever and where one needed to be really clever. i look at it another way, 'why reinvent the wheel'. if you can make what is already written work with scripts, use it, do not write it new. :) With all due respect, this feels like you are throwing the classic cliche over the problem. My comment was much more about effort/gain ratio at an age where effort really has to be looked at whether it advances the main chance. I think we ought to put this thread to bed, its beginning to drift OT What, and deny me the chance to reminisce about an old 6800 protyping board, building (though not desgining) my own high-speed cassette interface, designing and building my own dRAM refresh circuit, hand-assembling and typing in a FORTH interpreter in hex, by hand, and ... Oh, never mind. -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Yum update/bug alert
On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 10:30 PM, Robert Moskowitz r...@htt-consult.com wrote: Where is it with f16/G3? I once saw that poor excuse of a popup at the bottom of the screen saying something about updates available. But if that all there is, who watches there screen all the time Am I the only one who runs a yum update before I have breakfast every morning? ;) -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Neal Becker Software Package..?
Linda, I share your concern for the internet. But you need to learn how to use a search engine properly before you start finding shadows in the mailing list here. Basically, you got upset over one Neal Becker and shot (metaphorically) another. Admitted, the shot was (metaphorically) a paint bullet, but now he has paint all over one of his best shirts, so to speak. And you completely missed the Neal Becker at which you got upset. On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 8:05 AM, Linda McLeod lindavald...@fastmail.fm wrote: [a bunch of stuff that does not need repeating] -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Moving to Forums (was Re: [Linda's mistake about a] Software Package..?
On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 8:27 PM, Alan Cox a...@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk wrote: On Wed, 4 Jan 2012 10:51:05 + Richard Hughes hughsi...@gmail.com wrote: On 3 January 2012 23:05, Linda McLeod lindavald...@fastmail.fm wrote: (Would have elided that, but is there a real .fm TLD?) users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org Either the moderators ban this user, or I'm unsubscribing. The signal-to-noise ratio is just too low at the moment and it's wasting my time. Most people already left for fedora forum and the like. The list is basically not managed so its useless. If you want to fix that you need to take it up with the fedora board I believe. The reason I'm not using the forums is that they are clumsy and full of people who don't seem to be able to use man. I like them for the not having to delete stuff from my mail box, and for reducing the overall burden on the web, but the signal-to-noise ratio there is not what I would call low. Don't have time to write a full analysis here, but this touches on something I posted a riff on yesterday: http://defining-computers.blogspot.com/2012/01/mailing-lists-vs-e-mail-e.html Anyway, as several have noted already, the mass migration to the forums is not what it would seem, for several reasons. -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: login dialog doesn't scroll in F15
I finally added a bug for this to the Fedora bugzilla: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=771284 On Fri, Dec 23, 2011 at 6:24 PM, Joachim Backes joachim.bac...@rhrk.uni-kl.de wrote: On 12/23/2011 09:46 AM, Joel Rees wrote: On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 2:57 PM, Joachim Backes joachim.bac...@rhrk.uni-kl.de wrote: On 12/22/2011 02:26 AM, Joel Rees wrote: Has this been fixed? Anyone besides me with a login user list long enough to make this bug show up? Is it possibly just a configuration file issue? Joel Rees Hi Joel, after having added 10 users and restarting gdm (so I have totally 11 users), I get a *scrollable* list on the gdm login screen: the problem you described does not appear on my box (fully updated F16). Okay, that's a data point. Thanks. Anyone with F15 interested in checking for me? Hi Joel, if checking my old F15, I have the same problems as you described: *No* scrollable user list, but a fixed one not showing all users. I think that's the point you need to have confirmed. Kind regards Joachim Backes If people with F15 aren't seeing this either, then I can be pretty sure I need to dig deeper in /etc . You don't need :-) -- Joachim Backes joachim.bac...@rhrk.uni-kl.de http://www.rhrk.uni-kl.de/~backes -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: getting the nologin users out of the login dialog
A bug for the change in /bin/nologin default shell behavior has been recently added to the freedesktop bugzilla: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=44408 On Fri, Dec 23, 2011 at 6:08 PM, Joel Rees joel.r...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 1:19 PM, Craig White craigwh...@azapple.com wrote: On Thu, 2011-12-22 at 12:57 +0900, Joel Rees wrote: On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 12:20 PM, Joe Zeff j...@zeff.us wrote: On 12/21/2011 05:24 PM, Joel Rees wrote: In fedora14 users whose login shell (in /etc/passwd) is specified as /sbin/nologin do not show up in the login dialog. In Fedora15, they do. Does any one know of a setting to fix this? It's quite possible it's a bug in the login manager. If you're using gdm, try switching to kdm, or the other way around. If it only shows up in one, report it. Okay, that sounds like a fun thing to try. (Well, since Bruno reported it, I can just track the bug, instead.) Any idea where I should start on switching to kdm? I kept reading something about a switcher application, I suppose I should look at that some more? http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/kde/2011-May/009431.html Thanks! Okay, so I created /etc/sysconfig/desktop with the lines DESKTOP=KDE DISPLAYMANAGER=KDE and X11 gives me gives me the kde login screen. (At least, I've never seen the gnome login screen provide all those great options, like restarting the X server. :-) But I don't get a user list. Just the user name and password fields, which is not bad, and my family can probably get used to it, but it doesn't really tell me what's happening. Nosing around the web, I found the kdm docs, http://docs.kde.org/stable/en/kdebase-workspace/kdm/kdm-files.html and there's a UserList option in there. So I go edit /etc/kde/kdm/kdmrc , change UserList to true and it ignores me. Must be some file that overrides that in Fedora. The description of the options tells me a lot, however. It looks like the new specification here is to show all users in a specified range which have a defined password. Or you can hard-wire your list of users. That's a serious spec bug, and I guess I'll have to go hassle the freedesktop group about it. The previous chapter describes KDE's GUI configuration tool, which I have not got, I suppose I should load that and see if I can get it to change something for me. -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: [mosty OT] trollfilter software
On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 1:44 AM, Craig White craigwh...@azapple.com wrote: [...] not disputing access issues requiring Internet connection or security concerns w/r/t others handling the storage and ignoring the basic fact that e-mail is essentially an insecure medium to begin with [1] but... Well, while we argue about which existing access protocol is superior, we could be discussing new protocols and UI that could let us adjust the level of security we want to apply, let us decide where we want to store particular threads, let us tweak our spam filters and storage so that the false positives stand out for a few days before they disappear forever, etc. In the 1990's computers and internet access were slow and expensive, now storage, computers and Internet access is considerably less expensive and thus the tendency to use more than 1 computer/device to access e-mail is relatively common and is something that POP3 was never well equipped to handle. And on the other hand, we can have a Sheeva plug or something similar sitting in our living room, under the phone, giving us access across the net to our e-mail and family/SOHO BBS, etc. (Shoot, with a little hardware hacking, a little ARM prototyping kit could be the phone itself. (And I look in my pocket at something that could be the same kind of thing, wireless, if the carriers weren't so fixated on trying to capture/maintain their cash flow. (They don't seem to understand that the whole principle that validates tapping the cash flow is premised on service, and service is where the value is generated. Slipping off topic there.) Thus my statement that POP3 is so 1990's. 1990s? Nonsense. From my point of view, the entire internet, including IMAP4 is so 1960s. But POP3 enables relatively unsophisticated users to access e-mail in an unsophisticated fashion and manage their e-mail in an unsophisticated way and if that suits them, then by all means, they should use it... heck, I'm driving a car from before and a motorcycle from just after the turn of the century ;-) Automatic or manual tranny/clutch? ;-) (Fondly remembering the 1600cc Mitusbishi-made Dodge Colt 4-speed I drove in High School.) Craig [1] There are some who believe that the US Government has already indexed/read your e-mails... http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/oct/11/us-government-secretly-reads-your-email Given that Linux itself is considered a subversive activity by many of our CongressCritters, I'd say that the odds are pretty high that all the regulars on this list are, indeed, scanned and indexed. Be nice if they'd let me look in their indexes for that e-mail that my calibrated eyeball filter missed last week before dumping the spambox. (I have a copy of the message, but I like to keep the envelopes around for a while.) -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: creating all users with one primary group?
On Sun, Jan 1, 2012 at 12:21 AM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote: Am 31.12.2011 16:11, schrieb Dave Ihnat: On Sat, Dec 31, 2011 at 02:31:04PM +0100, Reindl Harald wrote: what have /etc/login.defs to do with the fact that there is simply no need to have a personal group for a user at all? You're probably not thinking about multiple users on a relatively secure system. oh yes i consider I *think*, if I recall correctly, that ATT System III V put everyone in the same group. This is a possible security breach, since any executable/directory/file that might grant rights to that group would be open to exploit by anyone in the group yes and no if i need that i do chmod 700 for folders and chmod 600 for files no need to create a group for each user So, from a security point of view, it makes a lot more sense to assign each user to their own group, and only let them in shared groups by deliberate assignment. It doesn't cost anything in terms of resources or performance. froma security point of view abvoe chmod's are making much more sense and if you need finer restrictions you need ACL's where groups for each user does not make sense at all - you need in this case groups for several roles and assing matching ACL's In other words, you really, really like ACLs. own groups for each user does not make sense at all You keep asserting that. I find them quite useful, because slapping ACLs on everything requires a lot of processor time and disk space to support, and you think your programs that update those lists have all the corner cases, and they don't. It's a lot easier to define non-login users for certain activities and then share those groups, and when you do that, it makes total sense to basically have every user in his own primary group. That was the traditional way to do things in Unix since way before ACLs were added to any large distribution of Unix. Having every login user in its own primary group also helps when you want to do certain kinds of sandboxing using sudo. You apparently don't like to do things that way. -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: creating all users with one primary group?
On Sat, Dec 31, 2011 at 9:29 PM, Frantisek Hanzlik fra...@hanzlici.cz wrote: Has anyone experience with situation, when all users on Fedora distro have same primary group (i.e. is not created extra group for every user? It's common in some distributions. (Mac OS X, 10.0 - 10.2 had a common staff group into which all login users went. From 10.3, I think, they went with making a primary group per user. Of course, that's BSD, no Linux.) Namely I'm asking when all programs will be working without problems. I want use for all users predefined group users (GID=100), which seems be intended for that situation; in /etc/default/useradd is this group defined. I think that group has been used both ways, actually -- primary or secondary group for login users. Diferent requirements do different things there. I'm little confused from two things too: - according to useradd man page, USERGROUPS_ENAB variable in /etc/login.defs controls, when by default will be for users created their own primary group or not. Thus set USERGROUPS_ENAB no should disable this feature. But in this file on Fedora distros (F14-F16) is weird comment This enables userdel to remove user groups if no members exist According to some admin techniques, which are not universal. The user series of user admin tools are by no means the only ways to manage users. - /etc/login.defs defines variable GID_MIN 500. In F16 are min UID/GID raised to 1000 and arrives two new variables SYS_UID_MIN 201 SYS_UID_MAX 999 Which seems both sensible and weird to me. Sensible because it's nice to have lots of headroom for inventing system users, and weird because it wasn't so long since they added GID_MIN and set it at 500, and made the associated move from masking users out of the login dialog by their login shell to masking them out by lack of password -- which looks to me like a vulnerability just waiting to happen. Poses this that what GID=100 are still normal user GID and may be used as primary (and only) user group ID? Probably something they forgot to change. On the other hand, if you have a default user group, whether assigned primary or secondary, you don't want to ever assign a login user the same uid number. Thanks, Franta -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: creating all users with one primary group?
On Sat, Dec 31, 2011 at 9:29 PM, Frantisek Hanzlik fra...@hanzlici.cz wrote: Has anyone experience with situation, when all users on Fedora distro have same primary group (i.e. is not created extra group for every user? It's common in some distributions. (Mac OS X, 10.0 - 10.2 had a common staff group into which all login users went. From 10.3, I think, they went with making a primary group per user. Of course, that's BSD, no Linux.) Namely I'm asking when all programs will be working without problems. I want use for all users predefined group users (GID=100), which seems be intended for that situation; in /etc/default/useradd is this group defined. I think that group has been used both ways, actually -- primary or secondary group for login users. Diferent requirements do different things there. I'm little confused from two things too: - according to useradd man page, USERGROUPS_ENAB variable in /etc/login.defs controls, when by default will be for users created their own primary group or not. Thus set USERGROUPS_ENAB no should disable this feature. But in this file on Fedora distros (F14-F16) is weird comment This enables userdel to remove user groups if no members exist According to some admin techniques, which are not universal. The user series of user admin tools are by no means the only ways to manage users. - /etc/login.defs defines variable GID_MIN 500. In F16 are min UID/GID raised to 1000 and arrives two new variables SYS_UID_MIN 201 SYS_UID_MAX 999 Which seems both sensible and weird to me. Sensible because it's nice to have lots of headroom for inventing system users, and weird because it wasn't so long since they added GID_MIN and set it at 500, and made the associated move from masking users out of the login dialog by their login shell to masking them out by lack of password -- which looks to me like a vulnerability just waiting to happen. Poses this that what GID=100 are still normal user GID and may be used as primary (and only) user group ID? Probably something they forgot to change. On the other hand, if you have a default user group, whether assigned primary or secondary, you don't want to ever assign a login user the same uid number. Thanks, Franta -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: It's time for you to leave.
On Sat, Dec 31, 2011 at 1:26 AM, Patrick Lists fedora-l...@puzzled.xs4all.nl wrote: On 30-12-11 07:29, Joel Rees wrote: Reading her posts often reminds me of trying to teach my sisters how to use something on the computer. All of them at once, on a day when they definitely have their wires crossed. I solved that by advising my sister she should get a MacBook :) Did she? I got one of my sisters an iBook 12 G4 some seven years back, she's still using it, and we are puzzled what to do to upgrade her by remote because it's still sometimes the best she can do to remember how to bring up e-mail. Fortunately, she's on good terms with the sales crew at one of the local Apple specialist shops. (3rd party, would not ask her to put up with a visit to the Apple Store.) If we were to update her to the current version, I'd have to fly across the ocean (because I'm the closest to free to do it) and babysit her use the first few days. (Not a bad idea, really, for when we can scrape together the money and time.) All of my sisters have different places that they can deal with, which can be confusing at times. But the also all think laterally, which means that walking any of them through a problem involves a lot of side trips (including teleportation and aliens and strange bugs at times). Women are not all one kind, but they have certain tendencies more than men do, and Linda is just extreme in that way. If she's real. I don't really care. Her questions do touch on a lot of the most difficult usability (Stupid spell checker reminding me that useability is not standard spelling. Yes, lateral thinking runs pretty strong in my family.) issues. The only way to tell if she is real is to try to help her long enough to see if she stumbles. If you don't care to participate, you can leave her alone. I'm personally interested in partial solutions to the NP-complete UI problems that she brings up. Well, some of them. Wish I had time for actually tackling them, but NP-complete problems tend to require lateral thinking and lots of letting things sit on the back burner, so it's not so bad to not really have time now. She could be a relatively thoroughly constructed troll, I'll grant that. But I've known women who were just like this. (I've known a few guys whose thought streams were as hard to follow, too, really.) Can't say I share that experience. I think, if you thought about it, you could think of a few. If not, you may need to get out more often. (Half kidding.) But my children are mad at me for wanting them to shut off the game machine. Leaving it playing the theme song in demo mode seems to help calm their nerves so they can study, where it makes it hard for me to work. I know, cooperation requires a bit of give-and-take, so I'm not saying we can't ask people like Linda to tone it down, and, I admit, she crosses over the edge at times when she sees a problem that looks like something she's trying to figure out and then starts talking about conspiracy theories, but at least she has half-rational posts, as well. [...] -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: It's time for you to leave.
On Sat, Dec 31, 2011 at 2:50 AM, Joe Zeff j...@zeff.us wrote: On 12/30/2011 05:28 AM, Craig White wrote: I think it's reasonable to presume contempt when you tell someone it's time for them to leave. No. Linda has severe issues that cause her to start new threads that have nothing to do with Fedora or Linux even and do nothing but waste everybody's time. Not only that, she keeps dumping her issues into other threads, hijacking them and, again, wasting people's time. This list is for tech support, not for discussing a member's delusions and if she can't accept that, she doesn't belong here. Linda clearly needs help and I hope she gets it. If and when she can behave herself here, she'll be welcome to return and I'll be glad to see it. Some people don't know how to ask questions without going off-topic. I seem to be one of them, myself. It takes practice and experience to figure out how to approach the list seamlessly. It takes being criticized. Sometimes it takes sticking around in spite of being asked to leave. I've spent my share of time on the openbsd lists. Very good lists if you can learn to ride with the flow over there. I've seen them rail at minor nuisances that this list puts up with every day. I've also seen them say, Don't let the door hit you on your way out. But that one's for people who are already threatening to take their unwelcome attentions and leave. I've also seen them turn around and help lots of people who finally figured out the right questions to ask about the problems they were having. I don't want to see this list become an alt.religion.aliens newsgroup or a m...@openbsd.org mailing list. Linda is kind of extreme. But she is not telling us we all have to switch to distro Y or warning us how Steve Ballmer is going to pull the fat out of the fire and then watch out for Microsoft because of XYZ. And the question of what happens when you plug six USB drives in, well, we know better, hopefully she now realizes that's too much of a good thing and not the way to do backup, but it does help us think a bit about the edge cases we want to ignore. If I worked HR for a company that wanted to start a Home Edition commercial Linux OS product, I'd be looking for people like Linda to help in the usability testing department. She can be a useful influence here if we'll let her. (And being useful is good therapy, but that's not really relevant here, is it?) -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: No title bar on app windows under XFCE in one user
On Sat, Dec 31, 2011 at 3:02 AM, Kevin Fenzi ke...@scrye.com wrote: On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 07:43:30 +0900 Joel Rees joel.r...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 11:56 AM, Joel Rees joel.r...@gmail.com wrote: [...] Also, Gnome's fallback has the same issues with loss of title bar. No idea there. Haven't checked yet to see if that's fixed. As Aaron indicates, Gnome is fixed, too. Now, what I am curious about is what kind of thing I might have done to talk XFCE out of starting its own window manager in the first place. Anyone with the time to enlighten me? There's an outstanding bug where if you have multiple windows that ask to save state, xfwm4 will timeout and not save the session correctly. You might have hit this... I've definitely hit it. I know I've logged the thing out several times with multiple browsers windows, multiple tabs, etc. Okay, I can set aside the paranoia about the web sites my kids are visiting, relative to AdobeFlash. (Well, all except for one, which I've asked my daughter to give up on. It keeps interrupting her digimon videos with ads, some of which are not for children, and then re-seeking the video. I think it's on purpose, although the pipes are under holiday stress, too, of course.) Thanks. -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: No title bar on app windows under XFCE in one user
On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 11:56 AM, Joel Rees joel.r...@gmail.com wrote: [...] Also, Gnome's fallback has the same issues with loss of title bar. No idea there. Haven't checked yet to see if that's fixed. As Aaron indicates, Gnome is fixed, too. Now, what I am curious about is what kind of thing I might have done to talk XFCE out of starting its own window manager in the first place. Anyone with the time to enlighten me? -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: No title bar on app windows under XFCE in one user
On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 12:47 PM, Craig White craigwh...@azapple.com wrote: On Thu, 2011-12-29 at 11:56 +0900, Joel Rees wrote: Logged in as a different user, XFCE is running on that user. One difference is that I have flash installed locally in the user that has the problems. (It's about time to see if Adobe has a more recent update, I guess.) I'd advise using the adobe yum repo for that reason. You can get updates much easier. Can you set that up to only load libflashplayer.so to the user's local .mozilla/plugins to limit the damage every time another exploit is found? I prefer to keep it out of the accounts I do real work on, just load it in my kids' account for playing and an account I use for accessing sites that insist on using flash. Don't like having their setup stuff loaded globally, but I decided it was not the same level risk. you can 'disable' any plugins at the 'profile' level thus achieving the same thing. In other words, the plugin is installed and available to all users but some users can simply disable the plugin. Well, yes and no. Locally installed code tends to be more limited in the damage it can do. Specifically, if a bad-guy website succeeds somehow in modifying the global library, everyone is hurt. But if there's no global library, well, there's no global library for the intruder to modify (if she gets that far). Sure, you don't want to forget and leave it writeable by the user, and you may want to change the owner to a non-existent user. Ultimately, it's a low wall and not very wide, but we need every low wall we can get for something like Flash. -- Joel Rees -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
