Re: Preupgrade doesn't work

[Marcel Rieux]

On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 4:09 AM, JB  wrote:

> Hi,
> it is a state of flux.
> I always managed to move to next Fedora with either preupgrade or 'yum 
> upgrade'
> methods, but other people are not always so lucky and hit an air pocket.

In my case hitting "air pockets" could mean catastrophe. I'm beginning
to grasp much better why some people advise non-geeks against using
Fedora.

> Right now there is a hectic time for Fedora devs due to F14 testing, so we 
> have
> to be patient with fixes to prior versions.

Yes, next December, F14 will be out, so I suppose it would be a nice
time to upgrade to F13.

> To be honest I read pretty heated reports about instability of kernels etc on
> tests mailing list and people saying Fedora is moving too much stuff too fast
> to be able to digest it properly.

Yeah... kernels. Does the instability of preupgrade have anything to
do with kernels?

I'm beginning to consider alternatives. I tried CentOS' LiveCD
yesterday but it ended on a blank screen. Of course, I could get
desktop Red Hat support for only $300/year. For professional support,
it's really cheap. Do you believe they would have solutions while
they're developing RHEL 6?

Another possibility would be adopting Ubuntu LTS, 6 months after
upgrade but I make so many goods friends all over the place giving my
frank opinion that I wonder how long its security would withstand the
attacks :)

> Based on my recent observation of my F13 problems and other people's reports
> I would agree.

Maybe I didn't check closely enough before going for an upgrade... I
just thought 3 months after the release, the bugs would be ironed out.
Maybe the development of F14 began the day after the F13 release?
Which would mean we will never get a stable upgrade process?

> I mean every dev knows that even in an agreed-upon fast-moving software dev
> environment it can reach a critical point that can make people (devs and
> testers) frustrated and demoralized.

Demoralized? You've got to be kidding! You know the motto is "Have
fun!", don't you?

> I would suggest to Fedora boyz and girls to ease, smell some flowers - life is
> not about constantly running ahead, without a pause, reflection, and 
> enjoyment.
> I hope they hear us.

Common! If Microsoft comes up with a new version of their OS every 5
years, I can't imagine the Red Hat boys not coming up with theirs
every 6 months.
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Re: Preupgrade doesn't work

[Marcel Rieux]

On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 11:40 AM, JB  wrote:
> Marcel Rieux  gmail.com> writes:
>
>> ...
> Hi,
> if you just care about upgrading to next Fedora, try this method:
> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/YumUpgradeFaq

Thanks for the suggestion but, I always thought preupgrade was the
recommended way for upgrading and, whereas many people had problems
upgrading with yum from F11 to F12, I had none at all with preupgrade.

Has the recommendation for upgrading changed? Is this the reason
preupgrade hasn't been fixed 3 months after F13 release?

Thanks!
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Preupgrade doesn't work

[Marcel Rieux]

I tried to upgrade to Fedora 13 with preupgrade, just as I had done
previously with Fedora 11 => 12.

First, I get this kind of result:


preupgrade
Loaded plugins: blacklist, whiteout
No plugin match for: rpm-warm-cache
No plugin match for: remove-with-leaves
No plugin match for: auto-update-debuginfo
preupgrade-main (mirrorlist)
  url: http://mirrors.fedoraproject.org/mirrorlist?repo=fedora-13&arch=$basearch
  now: http://mirrors.fedoraproject.org/mirrorlist?repo=fedora-13&arch=x86_64
preupgrade (mirrorlist)
  url: 
http://mirrors.fedoraproject.org/mirrorlist?path=pub/fedora/linux/releases/13/Fedora/$basearch/os
  now: 
http://mirrors.fedoraproject.org/mirrorlist?path=pub/fedora/linux/releases/13/Fedora/x86_64/os
preupgrade-adobe-linux-i386 (baseurl)
  url: http://linuxdownload.adobe.com/linux/i386/
  now: http://linuxdownload.adobe.com/linux/i386/
preupgrade-fedora (mirrorlist)
  url: https://mirrors.fedoraproject.org/metalink?repo=fedora-13&arch=x86_64
  now: https://mirrors.fedoraproject.org/metalink?repo=fedora-13&arch=x86_64
preupgrade-livna (mirrorlist)
  url: http://rpm.livna.org/mirrorlist
  now: http://rpm.livna.org/mirrorlist
Can't set up new repo preupgrade-livna - removing
preupgrade-rpmfusion-free (mirrorlist)
  url: http://mirrors.rpmfusion.org/mirrorlist?repo=free-fedora-13&arch=x86_64
  now: http://mirrors.rpmfusion.org/mirrorlist?repo=free-fedora-13&arch=x86_64
preupgrade-rpmfusion-free-updates (mirrorlist)
  url: 
http://mirrors.rpmfusion.org/mirrorlist?repo=free-fedora-updates-released-13&arch=x86_64
  now: 
http://mirrors.rpmfusion.org/mirrorlist?repo=free-fedora-updates-released-13&arch=x86_64
preupgrade-rpmfusion-nonfree (mirrorlist)
  url: 
http://mirrors.rpmfusion.org/mirrorlist?repo=nonfree-fedora-13&arch=x86_64
  now: 
http://mirrors.rpmfusion.org/mirrorlist?repo=nonfree-fedora-13&arch=x86_64
preupgrade-rpmfusion-nonfree-updates (mirrorlist)
  url: 
http://mirrors.rpmfusion.org/mirrorlist?repo=nonfree-fedora-updates-released-13&arch=x86_64
  now: 
http://mirrors.rpmfusion.org/mirrorlist?repo=nonfree-fedora-updates-released-13&arch=x86_64
unknown metadata being downloaded: repomdJlHPm9tmp.xml
preupgrade-updates (mirrorlist)
  url: 
https://mirrors.fedoraproject.org/metalink?repo=updates-released-f13&arch=x86_64
  now: 
https://mirrors.fedoraproject.org/metalink?repo=updates-released-f13&arch=x86_64
unknown metadata being downloaded: metalink.xml.tmp
unknown metadata being downloaded: MEMORY
Fetched treeinfo from
ftp://ftp.nrc.ca/pub/systems/linux/redhat/fedora/linux/releases/13/Fedora/x86_64/os//.treeinfo
treeinfo timestamp: Wed May 12 21:01:37 2010
unknown metadata being downloaded: MEMORY
unknown metadata being downloaded: MEMORY


Then, at the end, after rebooting, I have a message saying "Seeking
drives" or something like that. (Sorry, I should have taken a note.)
Then, the install process stalls and it seems to get into the same
course dor a reinstall. I find this problem all over the net. But no
solution, except somebody suggesting to modify the code of preupgrade,
which, 3 months after the release, I suppose Fedora developers would
have done if it indeed did the trick.

Anybody solution in sight?
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Re: Unable to disable wireless with latest NetworkManager-gnome

[Marcel Rieux]

I have a somewhat similar "problem" with a wired ADSL connection. I
used to disable the connection by right clicking the icon and
unclicking "Enable connection". Now "Enable connection" is checked and
grayed out. It's impossible to disable the connection by unchecking.
BUT, it you left click and choose disconnect, it disconnects. You then
click "System eth0" to connect.

So, it seems to work but I never saw any advice about this change.
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Re: Unpatched major kernel

[Marcel Rieux]

More on this issue:

http://lwn.net/Articles/400746/
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Unpatched major kernel

[Marcel Rieux]

eldavojohn writes

"On June 17th, the X.org team was notified by Invisible Things Lab of
a critical security flaw (PDF) that affected both x86_32 and x86_64
platforms. The flaw deals with escalated privileges of a user process
that has access to the X server. The founder of ITL said of the flaw,
'The attack allows a (unpriviliged) user process that has access to
the X server (so, any GUI application) to unconditionally escalate to
root (but again, it doesn't take advantage of any bug in the X
server!). In other words: any GUI application (think e.g. sandboxed
PDF viewer), if compromised (e.g. via malicious PDF document) can
bypass all the Linux fancy security mechanisms, and escalate to root,
and compromise the whole system.' This has apparently been a security
flaw since kernel 2.6 was released. From the article, 'On 13 August,
Linus Torvalds committed an initial fix, but several patches were
added afterward for various reasons. The problem has been addressed in
versions 2.6.27.52, 2.6.32.19, 2.6.34.4 and 2.6.35.2 of the kernel.'"

http://tech.slashdot.org/story/10/08/18/1534258/Linux-Xorg-Critical-Security-Flaw-Silently-Patched

==

August 13 is 10 days ago. Kernel.org now says the latest stable version is:

stable: 2.6.32.20   2010-08-20

http://www.all.kernel.org/

It was out 3 days ago.

Any reason Fedora is not updating the kernel on what looks like a major flaw.
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Re: Who's moderating this forum?

[Marcel Rieux]

On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 6:44 PM, Rahul Sundaram  wrote:
> On 07/20/2010 04:06 AM, Marcel Rieux wrote:
>> Did you notice that Sundaram's never replied to my message explaining
>> that pretending that OOo not having an autoreplace option because of
>> copyright matters is absolutely ridiculous since this replace option
>> is a basic high school exercise?
>>

> It is not about "copyright matters"  but software patents.

Seems I'll have to answer this one after all...

What's a software patent is not a copyright on code? How this moves
the discussion forward? Buzz off!

> I did actually reply to
> you twice explaining that patents even when they apply to basic ideas
> cannot be ignored as that is the unfortunate legal reality of it.
> Others have pointed out more details
>
> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/users/2010-July/378175.html

Did the courts ever allowed Microsoft to apply its "copyright" on
double-clicking?

> If you read another mail in that thread,   the specific details have
> been noted at
>
> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/users/2010-July/378243.html

> It seems you keep ignoring it and claim that I did not reply to you.
> That isn't true.

Rest assured I'm ignoring nothing but your nonsense. If Microsoft
asked for a patent  on "Autocorrecting text typed into a word
processing document", why should (formerly Sun), Oracle or Red Hat
care about this? As I explained it's only a high school exercise.
Microsoft has patented anything and everything it could think of. And
the stupid US patent office throws patents all over the place. It"s
when the patents come to court that the dealing is done.

These are the kind which Microsoft uses to pretend that Linux
infringes many of their patents. Who ever cared about this? Certainly
nopt Red Hat! I don't know how deep you are in India but you certainly
know this. You distribute Fedora as Omega with all the MS codecs
because the Indian government, though it receives subsidies from the
Bill and Melinda Gates foundation, rightfully doesn't give a shit
about software patents.

How come a Red Hat employee becomes so ignorant when it comes to
understanding patent issues?

Buzz off with your stupidities about copyright and patents. It doesn't
help you make a point. I really don't understand how come Red Hat
doesn't fire you on the spot.
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Re: Who's moderating this forum?

[Marcel Rieux]

On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 4:32 PM, Sam Sharpe  wrote:
> On 19 July 2010 21:09, Marcel Rieux  wrote:
>> This said, as this very message proves, it seems your only goal is to
>> add noise to this thread.
>
> There are 60 posts currently in this thread.
>
> Of those, the count per person is:
>
> Marcel Rieux - 20
> Rahul Sunderam - 9

As if I had only Sundaram's nonsense to reply to!

What's your opinion on Taibbi article? You wouldn't care about Red Hat
ripping off investors of hundreds of millions dollars? Do you really
believe it's only investor's craze that hiked shares from $14 to ~$300
when there was absolutely no reason to believe that Red Hat ever would
bring in such high revenue?

Did you notice that Sundaram's never replied to my message explaining
that pretending that OOo not having an autoreplace option because of
copyright matters is absolutely ridiculous since this replace option
is a basic high school exercise?

You sometimes have good technical solutions, I agreed with this, but,
otherwise, what do you care about?
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Re: Who's moderating this forum?

[Marcel Rieux]

On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 8:23 AM, Paul Frields  wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 6:57 PM, Marcel Rieux  wrote:

> It has little to do with the venue, and more to do with the tone
> you've brought to it, Marcel.

Yeah, of course, the tone! Whenever I try to bring people's attention
to matters they'd rather not care about, I'm told I don't have the
right tone. Isn't it funny that with all those people try to
intimidate me, finding absolutely necessary to add noise by telling
they filter me out, comparing me to a previous poster who was
apparently a troublemaker -- I have no idea if he really was -- or
spewing any nonsense like Rahul Sundaram does -- have you seen his
last post(1) where he pretends I'm sending him "abusive and rude
mails" while he doesn't change his return address --, isn't funny that
it's me that you find necessary to scold?

(1) http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/users/2010-July/378505.html

I believe those people are the ones you and Fedora/Red Hat should care
about... unless, of course, they're acting on "Fedora/Red Hat"
request. It's clear to me that if such is not the case, Rahul Sundaram
should be fired on the spot. How come he isn't?

Given those circumstances, I feel I'm acting pretty cool.

>>> The Board's information is located in a searchable
>>
>> I searched with constitution and statuses and never got to the page. How the
>> Board is elected should be part of a constitution or statuses or, as we say
>> in French Règlements de Régie interne.
>
> Just because you prefer those terms does not make them logical for
> everyone. A simple search for "Board" would provide everything you
> need, whether you search on the Mediawiki or through Google ("Fedora
> Board").

The constitution of the board should be part of the constitution or
statuses or Règlement de régie interne, whatever this is in english.
So it's normal to search for those terms. The fact that Fedora only
has rules for electing the board is not normal.

>> Unfortunately http://fedoraproject.org/wiki defaults to
>> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Project_Wiki and the words Board,
>> constitution or statuses are nowhere to be found on this page. I believe
>> there is still place for a little effort.

> The answer to every question is not to load yet more information on an
> already crowded front page.

Have you ever heard about links?

>>> Five seats on the Board are elected by the community at large, and
>>> four seats are appointed by the FPL.  In past cycles, the community has
>>> elected both Red Hat employees and volunteers to Board seats, and the
>>> FPL has appointed both Red Hat employees and volunteers to Board seats.
>>
>> Let's see the end result:

>> Doesn't work for RH:

(...)

>> Máirín Duffy -- a Boston-based Red Hatter who started as an unpaid intern in
>> 2004 and is now a senior interaction designer there.
>
> Máirín Duffy does work for Red Hat, as you indicate here.

So, "Red Hatter" means "working for Red Hat"? It's not everybody fond
of, or contributing to Red Hat? I must say I wondered about this one.
Since "there"  was used instead of "here", I thought Máirín Duffy was
working as "senior interaction designer" there, in Boston.

"Interaction designer"! Can you believe this title? Does Google have
"interaction designers"?

>> Chris Tyler is a professor at Seneca College
>>
>> So, that's 5 to 5. Of course, people who don't work for Red Hat are srill
>> pretty close to Red Hat, which is normal. You don't expect Debian developers
>> to be part of the Fedora board.
>
> Great, so we agree that the Board's comprised of Red Hat employees and
> volunteers, and there are no requirements regarding employment either
> way.

No requirement either way. Only that the FPL, named by Red Hat,
appoints 4 seat on the board and, whoever in the community happen to
elect Red Hat employees seem to vote in an "appropriate way" so that
Red Hat employes and unconditional supporters are well represented.
Now, you can go on discussing this as much as you want. but the fact
remains that, in the end, Fedora is Red Hat's thing.

If it wasn't we could discuss here how Red Hat's introduction to the
NASDAQ was made. Even here, in Montreal, I had some echoes. I learned
that the shares were to be sold $8 and then, G&S decided that they
could get $14. What does this look like?

It looks like there was a leak that shares were offered at $8 on a
laddering deal. I don't have the papers in hand, but it certainly
looks like it. This is most likely what allowed Bob Young and his wi

Re: Who's moderating this forum?

[Marcel Rieux]

On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 8:18 AM, Rahul Sundaram  wrote:
> On 07/19/2010 10:24 AM, Marcel Rieux wrote:
>>
>> you could ask Rahul Sundaram to use a correct return address. His
>> problem has been going on forever.
>>
>
> Is that your excuse to send abusive and rude mails in private?  I don't
> think it is a valid excuse.  Sorry.

So, I've sent you abusive and rude mails in private? You can post them
anytime you want since the only reason you received them is that I
once again forgot to change your return address for the group's. I
thought I'd do so myself but, since the nonsense you're posting is of
so little interest, I thought I'd refrain.

This said, as this very message proves, it seems your only goal is to
add noise to this thread. I don't know if you're doing this on
Fedora/Red Hat's instructions to turn off users' interest in
administrative questions, but you'll certainly receive less replies
from me from now on.

As one of their employees, you're really a shame to Red Hat, either
for Red Hat letting an employee post all this nonsense, or for asking
an employee to do so.
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Re: Who's moderating this forum?

[Marcel Rieux]

On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 9:29 PM, Darr  wrote:

> Since you won't stop using HTML quotes, I won't bother quoting you at all
> anymore.

David told me teh solution wasn't in Settings, but in the reply
interface. How long did it take to fix the problem? 2 days. Now, maybe
you could ask Rahul Sundaram to use a correct return address. His
problem has been going on forever.

> If ebay can't stop the site paypalsucks.com, I doubt there's much
> redhat can (or should) do about the fedorafaq or fedorasolved sites.

Fair use:

"Therefore, a trademark owner may attempt to prevent others from using
their mark in a number of situations such as when (1) the trademark is
being used on competing goods or services or the (2) consumer would
likely be confused by the dual use of the trademark. However, even
though trademark law protects the mark from "infringing" use the
trademark owner's rights are not absolute since they must co-exist
with our fundamental right of free expression."

http://www.publaw.com/fairusetrade.html

Do you believe that there's any chance paypalsucks could be confused
with paypal? What about fedorafaq, for a newbie?
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Re: Who's moderating this forum?

[Marcel Rieux]

On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 12:01 AM, David  wrote:
> On 7/18/2010 11:52 PM, Marcel Rieux wrote:
>> On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 9:34 PM, David  wrote:
>>> On 7/18/2010 9:29 PM, Darr wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> For some reason Gmail defaults to rtf. That can be easily changed in the
>>> 'compose mail' window. It is a toggle ao the setting sticks..
>>
>> Thanks! So this message should be formatted as simple text now.
>> Unfortunately if means the links won't be clickable, I suppose. Test:
>>
>> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/users/2010-July/
>>
>> Was RTF causing you problems too?
>
>
> No. Not really. But it bothered some and it looked like you needed the
> information.
>
> Glad if it helped.

Well, since even the formatting doesn't change, even links being
clickable, if it makes some people happier, I certainly have no
objection.
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Re: Bind downloads

[Marcel Rieux]

On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 11:53 PM, JD  wrote:
>  On 07/18/2010 08:36 PM, Marcel Rieux wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 8:54 PM, Marcel Rieux > <mailto:m.z.ri...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     Result:
>>
>>     
>> https://mail.google.com/mail/channel/bind?VER=(...)&it=(...)&SID=(...)&RID=(...)&AID=(..
>>     
>> <https://mail.google.com/mail/channel/bind?VER=%28...%29&it=%28...%29&SID=%28...%29&RID=%28...%29&AID=%28..>.)
>>
>>     Page displayed:
>>
>>
>>       Unknown SID
>>
>>
>>         Error 400
>>
>> Could you make anything of this to understand what is happening?
>
> I do not get that at all.
> I get a google login page.

This is because, as indicated as by (...). I removed the gibberish
after VER, &it &SID, &RID, &AID=
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Re: Who's moderating this forum?

[Marcel Rieux]

On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 9:34 PM, David  wrote:
> On 7/18/2010 9:29 PM, Darr wrote:
>> Since you won't stop using HTML quotes, I won't bother quoting you at all
>> anymore.
>>
>> If ebay can't stop the site paypalsucks.com, I doubt there's much
>> redhat can (or should) do about the fedorafaq or fedorasolved sites.
>
>
>
> For some reason Gmail defaults to rtf. That can be easily changed in the
> 'compose mail' window. It is a toggle ao the setting sticks..

Thanks! So this message should be formatted as simple text now.
Unfortunately if means the links won't be clickable, I suppose. Test:

http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/users/2010-July/

Was RTF causing you problems too?
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Re: Wo, I'm asking RPMfusion how to uninstall Kmod nvidia

[Marcel Rieux]

On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 3:08 AM, suvayu ali

> wrote:


> I couldn't help but notice, you didn't follow the instructions
> correctly as provided by Nicholas.


Please stop spreading this nonsense all over the place. I followed
instructions as long as I could but then had to find a solution to get out
of the problem they got me in.

See my post at:

http://lists.rpmfusion.org/pipermail/rpmfusion-users/2010-July/000705.html
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Re: Bind downloads

[Marcel Rieux]

On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 8:54 PM, Marcel Rieux  wrote:


> Result:
>
>
> https://mail.google.com/mail/channel/bind?VER=(...)&it=(...)&SID=(...)&RID=(...)&AID=(..<https://mail.google.com/mail/channel/bind?VER=%28...%29&it=%28...%29&SID=%28...%29&RID=%28...%29&AID=%28..>
> .)
>
> Page displayed:
> Unknown SID Error 400
>
Could you make anything of this to understand what is happening?
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Re: Who's moderating this forum?

[Marcel Rieux]

On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 6:03 PM, Christofer C. Bell <
christofer.c.b...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> The irony, Marcel, is that if your request was actually taken seriously,
> and this list became moderated (which is a headache anyway, since there is
> no "post-posted moderation" possible in a mailing list) is that you'd be the
> first to go.
>

You know what? You're quite right. I tend to think people in general have
common sense, or are, at least, able to read. As you've seen in this thread
even Red Hat employees can't read.
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Re: Who's moderating this forum?

[Marcel Rieux]

On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 10:14 PM, David  wrote:

> On 7/17/2010 9:58 PM, Marcel Rieux wrote:
> > On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 5:12 PM, Darr  > <mailto:d...@core.com>> wrote:
> >
> > On Friday, 16 July, 2010 @02:48 zulu, Marcel Rieux scribed:
> >
> > > and it will most probably prove my point that while Nouveau
> developers
> > > pretend they work really hard to get new users, installing Kmod is
> a
> > > one way ticket. Unless, of course, you're willing to spend a day or
> > > two trying suggestions that have never been tested such as the one
> I
> > > already received: yum remove, and that's it.
> >
> >
> > Since somebody from Nouveau told me here that installing Nvidia drivers
> > is not a one way ticket that will prevent users to get back to Nouveau
> > and that RPMfusion should provide instructions to remove kmod-nvidia,
> > I'm following the instructions provided by RPMfusion. But, since this
> > hasn't much to do with "Who's moderating this forum?", I'll repost your
> > answer in "Wo, I'm asking RPMfusion how to uninstall Kmod nvidia"
> > (Don't ask me what Wo is doing there, I supposed I forgot from a title I
> > previously wrote :)
>
> Knock. Knock. Anyone home?
>
> You should get a blog for this crap becasue no one here cares.
>
> I wouldn't say nobody, but next to nobody. To me this is a problem. When
people, including Fedora administrators, don't give a shit about trademark
matters or who the bank that underwrote Red Hat really is -- maybe you
noticed I never got a single comment for my link to rollingstone.org -- and
what kind of enterprise culture this sets, there really is a HUGE problem.

But that's what happens when geeks run a project.

If you want to filter any of my messages or all post from me, feel free.
Otherwise, why don't you just buzz off? People complain about my posts but
the number of posts like yours almost outnumber them. So what's the point,
except for preventing some people expressing matters they believe are
important, flooding their posts in heaps of nonsense?
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Re: Who's moderating this forum?

[Marcel Rieux]

On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 2:20 AM, Darr  wrote:

> On Saturday, 17 July, 2010 @23:44 zulu, Marcel Rieux scribed:
>
> > Where can I read the board's position on the name copyright?
>
> You're mixing nomenclatures...
> you can't copyright a name - names can be trademarked, though.
>

Right. A little confusion here.


> If you look closely on fedoraproject.org you might notice
> the little (tm) mark next to the fedora name,
>

If there's a tm on Fedora's name, how come everybody is using it? If Fedora
and fedoraproject is trademarked, is it lawful to use fedorafaq or
fedorasolved?
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Re: Who's moderating this forum?

[Marcel Rieux]

On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 5:55 AM, Andrew Haley  wrote:

>
> I think the best way for me to improve this list is to provide help
> where it's needed and try to avoid tedious arguments.  I don't think
> that anyone made me the hall monitor.
>
> In the end, the only real way to improve the signal to noise ratio is
> to add to the signal.  To that end, I'm out of here.
>

Absolutely! What I don't understand is why people who want to, in their
opinion, increase the signal to noise ratio feel necessary to post this shit
here. Everybody knows you can filter out a thread or a user. What's the use
of saying you're filtering my message if it's not for intimidation purposes?
Do you need to comfort yourself or other users in the decision you have
taken?

And you've got an address at redhat.com! Unbelievable! Red Hat is really
headed for a bright future with people like you.
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Re: Wo, I'm asking RPMfusion how to uninstall Kmod nvidia

[Marcel Rieux]

In the thread 'Who's moderating this forum? ", On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 5:12
PM, Darr  gave a few suggestions to remove the Nvidia driver
and to make Nouveau work.

Since somebody from Nouveau told me on this list that installing Nvidia
drivers is not a one way ticket that will prevent users to get back to
Nouveau and that RPMfusion should provide instructions to remove
kmod-nvidia, I'm following the instructions provided by RPMfusion. The
instructions are the following:

Disable or uninstall the nvidia driver

It is possible to disable the driver without uninstalling the nvidia
package.

nvidia-config-display disable
rm /etc/X11/xorg.conf

Or you can switch the Driver field from nvidia to nouveau in
/etc/X11/xorg.conf You also need to verify that /boot/grub/grub.conf doesn't
contain nomodeset or rdblacklist=nouveau anymore.

Then you will need to reboot. (or switch to init3 and manually
unloading/loading modules.).

Once done, if you really want to uninstall the driver:

yum remove xorg-x11-drv-nvidia\* livna-config-display

http://rpmfusion.org/Howto/nVidia#head-3fe8fc42e24a89aff36645e27644b1f6445a9ee6

==

Here's what Darr suggested:

>Did you undo the other steps, such as removing the blacklist
>   in /etc/modprobe.d/ and/or any parameters added to grub.conf
>  (e.g. rdblacklist=nouveau) ?

As you can see, Mr Chauvet, who wrote those instructions, didn't ask to
check anything in /etc/modprobe.d/ . So, I didn't.

>  Did you remake the initramfs file with dracut (or mv the
>  original one made before the kmod-nvidia drivers were
>  installed back to its original name) after undoing those steps?

As you can see again the word initramfs doesn't appear anywhere in the
instructions provided.

For now, I only tried to disable kmod-nvidia and, as you can see here:

http://lists.rpmfusion.org/pipermail/rpmfusion-users/2010-July/000702.html

I didn't have much success. Maybe the kernel panic was due to something I
did wrong, but I retried and I suppose things should have worked afterwards.
They didn't.

> Since the steps/methods vary according to whichever procedure
> you used, generic 'undo' instructions (other than "undo all the
> steps of the procedure[s] you followed") is pretty-much impossible.

I've used RPMfusion's instruction to install and I'm asking RPMfusion
instructions on how to uninstall.

If you want to make suggestions, you may write to Nicholas Chauvet at:

kwizart at 
gmail.com

Thanks for your contribution. I'm sure that with all the competent people on
this list, RPMfusion will soon have some fine instructions to remove the
kmod driver on its site.
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Re: Who's moderating this forum?

[Marcel Rieux]

On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 5:12 PM, Darr  wrote:

> On Friday, 16 July, 2010 @02:48 zulu, Marcel Rieux scribed:
>
> > and it will most probably prove my point that while Nouveau developers
> > pretend they work really hard to get new users, installing Kmod is a
> > one way ticket. Unless, of course, you're willing to spend a day or
> > two trying suggestions that have never been tested such as the one I
> > already received: yum remove, and that's it.
>

Since somebody from Nouveau told me here that installing Nvidia drivers is
not a one way ticket that will prevent users to get back to Nouveau and that
RPMfusion should provide instructions to remove kmod-nvidia, I'm following
the instructions provided by RPMfusion. But, since this hasn't much to do
with "Who's moderating this forum?", I'll repost your answer in "Wo, I'm
asking RPMfusion how to uninstall Kmod nvidia"  (Don't ask me what Wo is
doing there, I supposed I forgot from a title I previously wrote :)
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Re: Who's moderating this forum?

[Marcel Rieux]

On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 11:08 PM, Rahul Sundaram  wrote:

>
>  Governance in Fedora is rather light weight and board in particular does
> not interfere in day to day routine work which is led by contributors.
>

Sometimes, the problem is not what they do but what they don't do. There is
no instructions to install nvidia drivers on Fedora's site. Normal, since
Fedora doesn't encourage the use of proprietary software. So, a place like
FedoraFaq provides instructions, instructions that don't work (at least
until lately). I know by experience.  I know too that wrong instructions are
all over the place.

When something like this happens, maybe somebody of the Fedora board, or on
request from the board, should ask FedoraFaq to either modify or remove the
information. Once again, you'll say it's not Fedora's problem since the info
on Fedora's site is, it also seems to me, fairly accurate and Fedora doesn't
support proprietary software.

The problem is some people -- gamers and 3D users -- need the Nvidia driver
and, since the site that provides instructions has Fedora in it, they
believe it's a most official source they can get instructions from. If they
don't get correct instructions they're pissed off at Fedora, wrongfully, of
course, but pissed off nonetheless.

Steven Ballmer himself could be running FedoraFaq, he could bash the users
for not understanding his instructions, what would the Fedora board do?
People from the board or formerly from the board apparently read this list.
I expressed my concerns about FedoraFAQ, I said the FF guy doesn't answer
messages, doesn't correct the misinformation. Nobody ever said the info was
correct. What did the board do? If, as a simple user, I know about such
problems, how come the board doesn't?

Have you ever seen sites such as microsoftfaq, applefaq... or redhatfaq, or
even centosfaq? There are sites with Mac, such as macrumors or macworld. I
don't know these sites. They might be just some kind of Apple subsidiaries,
but maybe not(1). In such a case, if I was Apple, I wouldn't even allow
this. You could put Apple or Mac in the headers or the title of the page,
but not use apple or mac as a domain name... that is if the law allows this
interdiction.

(1) Here, Mac magazines just don't question how, with 100 millions of
equipment, Apple was never able to detect such a fundamental antenna
problem.:

http://www.macrumors.com/ (this page , of course, will eventually change).
Here's an excerpt for eventually searching:

"While the new section of Apple's site provides an interesting glimpse into
the company's $100 million investment in antenna design and testing labs,
Apple went one step further and invited 11 members of the media on a brief
tour of the previously-secret labs following today's event."

and here: http://www.macworld.com/article/152771/2010/07/wireless_lab.html

=

A copyrighted name is very important, not only for proprietary software but
for open source software too, I would say even more, because of the
resources multinational companies have at their disposal to set blogs, lists
or forums awry. I don't say if it's the case now, but I know it could
happen. In a word, if Linux can't be bought, it can be subverted easily by a
lack of regulation.

Where can I read the board's position on the name copyright? Last time I
enquired, I was told there there is no Fedora constitution or statuses
because, in the US, Fedora can't be considered as a separate entity from Red
Hat. Still, there could be internal regulation rules. Just having a way to
elect a board doesn't seem sufficient to me.

Geeks, like the all-programmers team of the board, think the less
regulation, the better. But it's when you write regulation that the
possibility of conflict of interests arises. Of course, as long as there's
no regulation, things can go on "as is" for a long time but, one fine day,
the rotten conflict blows out in the open and it's too late to fix it.

This is Red Hat's board of directors:

http://investors.redhat.com/directors.cfm

>From their biography, how many do you believe are programmers? Not too many
I would think. So, how come there are so many programmers on Fedora's board
and so little on Red Hat's. I'm sure, clever as programmers are, you noticed
this at first sight. So what is needed to run a software company or...
project, administrators or programmers?
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Re: Who's moderating this forum?

[Marcel Rieux]

On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 9:53 PM, Germán A. Racca

>
> Please, it would be nice if you stop sending html mails:
>
>
> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines#No_HTML_Mail.2C_Please
>

This page has a link on how to send text messages unfortunately it points
to  http://www.expita.com/nomime.html and I have a 404 error.

I did a research in Settings at Google mail and all that is available to
change is the text encoding.

Regards!
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Re: Bind downloads

[Marcel Rieux]

On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 1:01 AM, Kevin J. Cummings <
cummi...@kjchome.homeip.net> wrote:

> On 07/16/2010 12:12 AM, Marcel Rieux wrote:
> > On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 9:30 PM, Kevin J. Cummings
> > mailto:cummi...@kjchome.homeip.net>>
> wrote:
> >
> > On 07/15/2010 07:11 PM, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
> >
> > > This looks like you were at some site that had a 0 length file
> called
> > > 'bind' and when you clicked on it it downloaded... it uses the
> numbers
> > > each time you download it as a unique identifier, so you must have
> > > clicked on that thing 7 times.
> >
> >
> > I don't believe  I ever downloaded a bind file...
> >
> >
> > Try deleting all verions of this file directly from your downloads
> > window.  I can't remember if that helps or not.
> >
> >
> >
> > Delete them from the downloads window.
>

I did this and, as far as I can remember, it disappeared from Dolphin too.
Next morning the 7 bind files were back, only in Dolphin, not on the list. I
deleted them and got one more bind file today.

As I recall, if you right click on an entry in your download window, it
> will give you a pop-up with the following selections:
> (...)
>Copy Download Link
>
(...)

Interesting! Result:

https://mail.google.com/mail/channel/bind?VER=(...)&it=(...)&SID=(...)&RID=(...)&AID=(..
.)

Page displayed:
Unknown SID Error 400
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Re: Who's moderating this forum?

[Marcel Rieux]

2010/7/15 Kevin Fenzi 

> On Thu, 15 Jul 2010 22:48:08 -0400
> Marcel Rieux  wrote:
>
> ...snip...
>
> http://fedorasolved.org/Members/dcr226/nouveau-kmods-mesa-dri-exper
>

RPMFusion updated its site today. Here's what they suggest:
Disable or uninstall the nvidia driver

It is possible to disable the driver without uninstalling the nvidia
package.

nvidia-config-display disable
rm /etc/X11/xorg.conf

Or you can switch the Driver field from nvidia to nouveau in
/etc/X11/xorg.conf You also need to verify that /boot/grub/grub.conf doesn't
contain nomodeset or rdblacklist=nouveau anymore.

Then you will need to *reboot*. (or switch to init3 and manually
unloading/loading modules.).

Once done, if you really want to uninstall the driver:

yum remove xorg-x11-drv-nvidia\* livna-config-display


http://rpmfusion.org/Howto/nVidia#head-3fe8fc42e24a89aff36645e27644b1f6445a9ee6
=

Nothing about initramfs at rpmfusion and no mention of
mesa-dri-drivers-experimental.

rpmfusion being the official source, I'll follow these instructions...
but I'll keep fedorasolved handy :)

I'll do the removal after I test disabling. This will be when I have a day
or two free while I won't need my computer, in case problems arise.

Thanks!
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Re: Autocorrection in OOo 3.1.1 and shortcut for navigating in Firefox when zoomed in

[Marcel Rieux]

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 11:24 PM, Rahul Sundaram  wrote:


> You have a problem. Several people offered you solutions but you are
> reluctant to try it out.
>

What is the solution to a non-existing tab? One person said 3.2.1 would
settle the problem. I explained why I wouldn't install it now.

Maybe you should comment the answers you had suggesting that removing the
Replace Tab... since 2006 because of some software patent is completely
ludicrous.



>It is not clear why you ask for help if you are not willing to try the
> suggestions offered.
>
> Rahul
>
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Re: Who's moderating this forum?

[Marcel Rieux]

On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 1:29 PM, Paul W. Frields wrote:

> On Fri, 2010-07-16 at 13:13 -0400, Marcel Rieux wrote:
> > The prerequisite is that Red Hat employees have some common sense
> > themselves... Of course, we all know that Fedora being an entity
> > completely separate from Red Hat is just a figment of the imagination.
> > Fedora's constitution -- whose link should appear on the welcome page
> > but is very hard to find: I can't at the moment -- says that a
> > majority of the board members, including the Project Leader, should be
> > from Red Hat.
>
> Normally I wouldn't have spent time on this conversation


I'm really glad to hear that you don't lose your time in a users'
conversation  about RH where the likes of Rahul Sundaram and Alan Cox
participate.

> The Board's information is located in a searchable

I searched with constitution and statuses and never got to the page. How the
Board is elected should be part of a constitution or statuses or, as we say
in French Réglements de Régie interne.


> and easily found place:
>
> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board
>


Unfortunately 
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki<http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board>defaults
to
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Project_Wiki and the words Board,
constitution or statuses are nowhere to be found on this page. I believe
there is still place for a little effort.

>
> The Fedora Project Leader is a Red Hat employee, that much is true.
> There are *no* requirements that a majority of Board members be from Red
> Hat.


Thanks for clarifying this.


> Five seats on the Board are elected by the community at large, and
> four seats are appointed by the FPL.  In past cycles, the community has
> elected both Red Hat employees and volunteers to Board seats, and the
> FPL has appointed both Red Hat employees and volunteers to Board seats.
>

Let's see the end result:

Works for RH:

Christopher Aillon <http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ChristopherAillon> is the
Desktop Applications Engineering Team Lead for Red Hat

Stephen Smoogen <http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Smooge> -- Stephen is a
Fedora Infrastructure Minion for Red Hat, where he has worked since 2009.

Colin Walters <http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Walters> -- is a Software
Engineer on Red Hat's desktop team

Tom "spot" Callaway <http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/TomCallaway> has worked
for Red Hat since 2001

Additionally, there is a Chairman appointed by Red
Hat<http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FPL>,
also called Fedora project leader, who has veto power over any
decision. Jared K. Smith
<http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Jsmith>joined Red Hat in July 2010
as the Fedora Project Leader, taking over from Paul
Frields <http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Pfrields>.

Doesn't work for RH:

Jon Stanley <http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Jstanley> -- Jon is a
long-time contributor to Fedora

Rex Dieter <http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/RexDieter> works as Computer
System Administrator in the Mathematics Department at the University of
Nebraska Lincoln.

Matt Domsch <http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MattDomsch> is a Technology
Strategist in the Dell <http://linux.dell.com/> Office of the CTO.

Máirín Duffy <http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Duffy> -- a Boston-based
Red Hatter who started as an unpaid intern in 2004 and is now a senior
interaction designer there.

Chris Tyler <http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Ctyler> is a professor at
Seneca College

So, that's 5 to 5. Of course, people who don't work for Red Hat are srill
pretty close to Red Hat, which is normal. You don't expect Debian developers
to be part of the Fedora board.


> > So Red Hat can steer Fedora any way it wants, and that's OK to me. So,
> > why do we have silly bashing here as if it was a Debian list? Why
> > can't we discuss real things with respect, not only technical, but on
> > the organizational level?
>
> Since your premise is false


Which premise is false? That the board doesn't need to have to comprise a
majority of RH employees? Does this change anything to the fact that "Red
Hat can steer Fedora any way it wants", mainly that the Fedora Project
Leader is appointed by Red Hat and has veto power?
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Re: Autocorrection in OOo 3.1.1 and shortcut for navigating in Firefox when zoomed in

[Marcel Rieux]

On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 6:30 AM, Alan Cox  wrote:

> On Thu, 15 Jul 2010 22:14:07 -0400
> Marcel Rieux  wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 6:37 PM, Alan Cox 
> wrote:
> >
> > > > Ok, so that's why it's OK if it doesn't work! Windows at $35 (OEM)
> for
> > > 5-7
> > > > years seems a better alternative though. Red Hat salesmen must be
> really
> > > > competent. I certainly couldn't sell one Red Hat copy for sure.
> > >
> > > If you want to run Windows then do so.
> >
> >
> > Hey, that's exactly the answer I said wouldn't help Red Hat. Great! I'm
> > surprised it comes from a former kernel maintainer. Maybe that's the
> spirit
> > at Red Hat?
>
> I don't work for or speak for Red Hat.
>

Not anymore, but you certainly were close to Red Hat:

"Alan was employed by the Linux distributor Red Hat during 1999-2009. He is
as of 2010 employed by Intel."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Cox

That's not another Aln Cox, is it?

> > Fedora is a *project* not a product.
> > What's this supposed to mean? That you can escape all problems by sending
> > users to Bugzillas?
>
> It's like the difference between watching Germany lose at football, and
> playing football. In the former case you pay money for and it may or may
> not do what you want, in the latter case you are part of making something
> happen.
>

Do you really believe that the OEMs who use Android will tell their users:
"Buzz off, you don't contribute code" and refer them to some android_this or
that .org that nobody knows who the maintainer really is, that provide false
information for months, if not years? Fedora does this. It lets anybody use
their name, Google won't, unless an OEM puts its name on the product it has
modified.

This won't happen because whichever OEM treats users like shit will lose
market share. Open Source is a new game. It's not a developers' gizmo
anymore, it's now out in the open world and brings in lots of revenue. Users
problems will have to be taken into consideration.

>
> > management at Google's? They're people who have one thing in sight: the
> > user. And they succeed. People who have geek "projects" in mind fail. Of
>
> Oh yes - like the iphone where they don't allow users to install software
> they want ?
>

You really believe I'm an Apple apostle? :) I find Apple's business model is
just horrible. It's a plain rip-off. But they cater to know-nothing people
who are really willing to pay a fortune not to be sent searching all over
the web. It works. Why can't Red Hat develop a business model that is not a
rip-off for desktop users?

When a site such as fedorafaq.org provides wrong information to install
nvidia drivers, why doesn't Red Hat complain that somebody using its...
subsidiary (see my previous post) name is diffusing wrong info?

Why should they do this? Maybe they will sell contracts at
$320/year/desktop. Working against Fedora helps Red Hat sell contracts which
are really way too expensive. I would think they don't sell many, though.

Goldman $... oops & Sachs did a really bad job as a main underwriter for Red
Hat's introduction on the Stock Exchange. Do you remember how shares went
from $14 to ~$300?(1) This certainly made Bob Young and his wife -- you
remember Bob Young, don't you? -- fabulously rich, but it set a money
culture in Red Hat that, in my opinion, won't, in the long run, help Red Hat
stick to the straight and narrow.


(1) Someday, when you feel like reading  something else than code, learn
more about Goldman & Sachs, see:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/12697/64796?FORM=ZZNR3

A search on "laddering" is advised. Rolling Stone will certainly tell you
more than the Wall Street Journal, which would see all its revenue dwindle
if they ever published such an article. Mr Taibbi does a really good job!
==

Now, you can say if Bob Young got hundred of millions for next to nothing,
the present EO's are certainly worth a few millions a year but, meanwhile,
Shuttleworth not only doesn't make a cent, he puts some of his own to
accelerate Canonical development. And whereas all Red Hat offers is
$320/year support contracts, Ubuntu offers its users some music and films.
This makes more sense. How come Red Hat's multi-millionaires *EOs can't
figure this out? They're mighty slow!

> course, Red Hat is moving forward but is it at the right pace? Google, who
> went public five years after Red Hat now has 25x the market
capitalization.
> If your good friend :) Linux Torvalds had to entrust Linux's future to a
> company, which one  would it 

Re: Who's moderating this forum?

[Marcel Rieux]

On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 5:34 AM, Andrew Haley  wrote:

I'm sure plenty of people think it's obvious nonsense.  However, moderatiom
> rules don't forbid nonsense AFAIAA.
>

Absolutely but since this nonsense often degenerates in a flood of the same
kind, some very plain Fedora users just as myself refrain from posting their
problems here because they fear they will be served this kind of bullshit
from people who present themselves as real Linux experts and provide silly
advice as "reinstall", "Google some more", "don't bother us", etc.

I believe Fedora would fare better if users of this list tried to moderate
this kind of silliness mainly when you consider that Microsoft, Apple or
such could subsidize people to stir the pot. And though there is, of course,
no moderation on this list, wouldn't it be nice it people who are paid by
Red Hat took it to themselves to maintain some common sense on this list and
stopped evading the issue by pretending everyone is entitled to an opinion?

The prerequisite is that Red Hat employees have some common sense
themselves... Of course, we all know that Fedora being an entity completely
separate from Red Hat is just a figment of the imagination. Fedora's
constitution -- whose link should appear on the welcome page but is very
hard to find: I can't at the moment -- says that a majority of the board
members, including the Project Leader, should be from Red Hat.

So Red Hat can steer Fedora any way it wants, and that's OK to me. So, why
do we have silly bashing here as if it was a Debian list? Why can't we
discuss real things with respect, not only technical, but on the
organizational level?
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Re: Bind downloads

[Marcel Rieux]

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 9:30 PM, Kevin J. Cummings <
cummi...@kjchome.homeip.net> wrote:

> On 07/15/2010 07:11 PM, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
>
> > This looks like you were at some site that had a 0 length file called
> > 'bind' and when you clicked on it it downloaded... it uses the numbers
> > each time you download it as a unique identifier, so you must have
> > clicked on that thing 7 times.
>

I don't believe  I ever downloaded a bind file...

>
> Try deleting all verions of this file directly from your downloads
> window.  I can't remember if that helps or not.
>


> Delete them from the downloads window.  If that doesn't help, make sure
> that the next time you start firefox that its a new session (ie, don't
> try and restore the previous one).
>

 So far, I've deleted them from Dolphin. I'll try your method.

>
> And, Good Luck Marcel.
>
> Thanks.
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Re: Who's moderating this forum?

[Marcel Rieux]

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 11:21 PM, Rahul Sundaram  wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 8:38 AM, Marcel Rieux  wrote:
>
>>
>>> I was referring to the June post not to  answer it but to give a flagrant
>> example of some omnipresent nonsense. Of course, I might be wrong. It's very
>> important to state this, right? since everybody is entitled to an
>> "opinion".  But, so far, nobody maintained that reinstalling Linux made them
>> much more clever.
>>
>> So, in my opinion, it's not a split. Discussing moderation (not
>> censorship) in a thread about drivers would make no sense. Of course, this
>> is only my opinion...
>>
>
> --
>
> Let me restate this.   He is entitled to retain his opinion whatever is as
> long as it is expressed in a civil way.  You are free to consider it
> nonsense and your options are to try and convince him of your position or
> disagree and move on.  There is no scope of moderation in this discussion.
> If you want to talk to list admins,  do it privately and do not bother the
> list with it.
>
> May I ask if you read before you answer? All the message you're answering
to has to  do with whether I splited a thread or not. What does all your
restating have to do with this?
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Re: Autocorrection in OOo 3.1.1 and shortcut for navigating in Firefox when zoomed in

[Marcel Rieux]

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 8:05 PM, Rahul Sundaram  wrote:

> On 07/16/2010 05:27 AM, Christofer C. Bell wrote:
> > Is there any word (that you've heard by rumor) that indicates what the
> > possible immediate intellectual property problem may be?  The bug
> > report doesn't specify anything.
>
> I have no specific knowledge in this case but perhaps patents
>

Err... yes. When you talk intellectual property in software, you talk
patents. So what's the patent that could possibly pretend that you can't
replace "this" with "that". You need to find "this" in a list, that provide
the correction "that". Are there many more basic exercises in programming?

Have you heard that OOo 3.2.1 solves this problem? I hope the tab will be
removed before the final release! Man, patents on an equivalence list!
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Re: Autocorrection in OOo 3.1.1 and shortcut for navigating in Firefox when zoomed in

[Marcel Rieux]

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 7:03 PM, Frank Cox  wrote:

>
> On Thu, 2010-07-15 at 18:48 -0400, Marcel Rieux wrote:
> >
> > YOU say it's a solution. I don't know you, I don't deal with you. If
> > Fedora  believes it's a solution, I'll apply it.
>
> You don't "know" anyone on this mailing list.
>
> You're in the wrong place, and I'm not trying to provoke or anger you
> with this observation; it's a sincere attempt to help you (though you
> aren't making it particularly easy).
>

It might very well be but I've been very frustrated by the time I lost
installing Kmod. The solution I found at RPMFusion worked very well and it's
not a company. It's people dealing with said module installation.

Your solution might or might not work but, even if it did, it's going to be
just another one amongst the gazillions on the net. How would somebody with
the same desinstallation problem find the reference here? What's the limit
to "Google is your friend"? Is this new loss of time supposed to teach
something too? Why not put instructions in the right place?

You really think MY problem is I'm used to dealing with companies?
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Re: Who's moderating this forum?

[Marcel Rieux]

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 10:37 PM, Rahul Sundaram  wrote:

>
> > Check closely, I didn't split the thread. Somebody, unaware of the
> > result, I suppose, removed "OT:" from the title line. It's unfortunate
> > but those things happen.
>
> No.  You did split the thread by starting yet another discussion
> refererring to the old one.
>
> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/users/2010-July/thread.html
>
> I was referring to the June post not to  answer it but to give a flagrant
example of some omnipresent nonsense. Of course, I might be wrong. It's very
important to state this, right? since everybody is entitled to an
"opinion".  But, so far, nobody maintained that reinstalling Linux made them
much more clever.

So, in my opinion, it's not a split. Discussing moderation (not censorship)
in a thread about drivers would make no sense. Of course, this is only my
opinion...
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Re: Who's moderating this forum?

[Marcel Rieux]

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 7:14 PM, Kevin Fenzi  wrote:

>
> > On *Thu Jun 24 01:36:32 UTC 2010, **Joel Rees* wrote about there
> > being no instructions to revert from Nvidia to Nouveau drivers:
>
> I answered him with a link that answered his question, but he didn't
> reply if that solved his issue.


Rees was answering my post.


> Perhaps because there was too much
> noise in the thread that was not answering the question.
>
> I explained that I had found instructions that didn't work all over the net
for installing Kmod Nvidia. The instructions that worked were on RPMFusion.
So, I thought that, maybe, Fedora could provide instructions to install
Nouveau, which is open source software. But that wasn't their business.
Apparently, RPMFusion, which, of course, everybody hates from the bottom of
their heart, had fucked up my system and it was for them to fix it.

Today, I posted my message here:

http://lists.rpmfusion.org/pipermail/rpmfusion-users/2010-July/thread.html

and it will most probably prove my point that while Nouveau developers
pretend they work really hard to get new users, installing Kmod is a one way
ticket. Unless, of course, you're willing to spend a day or two trying
suggestions that have never been tested such as the one I already received:
yum remove, and that's it.

This is not the subject of this thread. I know, as usual, many people will
disagree, but I won't post anything more on the matter.
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Re: Who's moderating this forum?

[Marcel Rieux]

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 6:01 PM, Rishi Patel  wrote:

We all have it upon us to moderate this forum; in our own posts perhaps.


I agree, but what happens when it's not done? I had 9 replies in this thread
and I really didn't feel like getting involved in this nonsense at the time.
I thought maybe somebody would drop a few lines to protest this obvious
nonsense. 3 weeks later, nothing.

What usually happens is some people add more of the same.





>
> On 15 July 2010 22:46, Rahul Sundaram  wrote:
>
>> On 07/16/2010 03:00 AM, Marcel Rieux wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > I don't understand how come nobody responsible for this group tries to
>> > make discussions move forward to better results for Red Hat, whether
>> > it be about uninstalling Nvidia drivers or OOo not offering basic
>> > features that Red Hat should rely on to sell its support, etc. Who's
>> > teh Steve Jobs here who says "The user is right!" ?
>> >
>> > IMO, there is a flaw in this list's moderation. And that's my
>> > contribution.
>>
>> You are hearing opinions you don't like and want moderators to step in
>> and squash them even though none of the list guidelines have been
>> violated by the other party.  That isn't moderation but censorship.  As
>> long as opinions are politely expressed and aimed at the subject matter
>> instead of being personal, there is no reason not to tolerate dissent.
>> Besides,  if you want to enforce netiquette, I would have to point out
>> that you are splitting a single thread into multiple ones and that makes
>> it harder to follow discussions and ignore a thread if people are not
>> interested in hearing about the topic.
>>
>> Rahul
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Re: Who's moderating this forum?

[Marcel Rieux]

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 5:46 PM, Rahul Sundaram  wrote:

> On 07/16/2010 03:00 AM, Marcel Rieux wrote:
> >
> >
> > I don't understand how come nobody responsible for this group tries to
> > make discussions move forward to better results for Red Hat, whether
> > it be about uninstalling Nvidia drivers or OOo not offering basic
> > features that Red Hat should rely on to sell its support, etc. Who's
> > teh Steve Jobs here who says "The user is right!" ?
> >
> > IMO, there is a flaw in this list's moderation. And that's my
> > contribution.
>
> You are hearing opinions you don't like and want moderators to step in
> and squash them even though none of the list guidelines have been
> violated by the other party.  That isn't moderation but censorship.


Did I ask for this kind of opinion to be censored? This ridiculous opinion
that silly problems will make you wiser is too often expressed on Linux
groups. Maybe somebody with a higher status on this list than me could have
set the record straight once for all so that we don't have to bear this
nonsense for another 10 years.


>  As
> long as opinions are politely expressed and aimed at the subject matter
> instead of being personal, there is no reason not to tolerate dissent.
> Besides,  if you want to enforce netiquette, I would have to point out
> that you are splitting a single thread into multiple ones


Check closely, I didn't split the thread. Somebody, unaware of the result, I
suppose, removed "OT:" from the title line. It's unfortunate but those
things happen.
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Re: Autocorrection in OOo 3.1.1 and shortcut for navigating in Firefox when zoomed in

[Marcel Rieux]

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 6:37 PM, Alan Cox  wrote:

> > Ok, so that's why it's OK if it doesn't work! Windows at $35 (OEM) for
> 5-7
> > years seems a better alternative though. Red Hat salesmen must be really
> > competent. I certainly couldn't sell one Red Hat copy for sure.
>
> If you want to run Windows then do so.


Hey, that's exactly the answer I said wouldn't help Red Hat. Great! I'm
surprised it comes from a former kernel maintainer. Maybe that's the spirit
at Red Hat?


> We will be very happy for you to
> do so. Most sales people I know had a category for people like you -
> the "I hope he buys the competitors product" category.
>

It's true! But I know a software company who eliminated all competition
because they took good note of my comments... amongst many others. Why does
Apple make billions with a *NIX system while Linux cannot get much desktop
market share? Are you really sure there's not a problem of attitude and,
possibly, with the development model. Now that Red Hat knows -- because
you're pretty close to Red Hat, I believe :) -- how long will it take before
this bug gets fixed? Or is there some Bugzilla you'd like to refer me too to
explain the obvious so that Red Hat responsibility is not involved?

>
> Red Hat has big contracts with some very big very bright and successful
> companies.


And they ship OOo with such obvious bugs or do they make a special for
Fedora users?

Now it could be they are all collectively stupid and you are
> only the clueful person on the planet, but I umm doubt it somehow.
>

I don't care if people are stupid or not. I care about obvious bugs not
being fixed and I wonder how come this can possibly happen, mainly when the
competition -- read Google, Intel/Nokia -- is caring about users and
striving to provide quality software. Did it ever occured to you that, after
filling their search engine with Android users, Google could offer server
services as efficiently as Red Hat, and with a huge user base?

Tell me, dear developer, how do you see Red Hat's future otherwise than as a
remake of Sun's story? Developers are so clever one wonders how come Steve
Jobs, who never wrote a line of code in his life, runs Apple.

Also you have another thing confused:
>
> Fedora is a *project* not a product.


What's this supposed to mean? That you can escape all problems by sending
users to Bugzillas?

Its a bunch of people who together
> put in and get various things out of a common project for whatever reason
> makes sense to them.
>

What makes sense to them? Failing? OK, Red Hat is doing fine now, but the
scenery is changing fast. If you see the future as a continuation of
yesterday, you're doomed. Did you ever wonder who's Steve Jobs or the
management at Google's? They're people who have one thing in sight: the
user. And they succeed. People who have geek "projects" in mind fail. Of
course, Red Hat is moving forward but is it at the right pace? Google, who
went public five years after Red Hat now has 25x the market capitalization.
If your good friend :) Linux Torvalds had to entrust Linux's future to a
company, which one  would it be?

I strongly believe more attention should be given to users' problems and
wills. Ask Shuttleworth. No Goldman and Sachs will make you a millionaire in
his story. Not only is he putting every cent back into Canonical. but
instead of getting a pay, he adds some of his own, only to accelerate
growth. It's funny, I don't feel the same drive in Red Hat
multi-millionaires *EOs. On a lesser scale Red Hat is facing the same growth
problem as Microsoft.

Your buzz off answer won't solve this kind of problem. It never has and
never will. If your spirit is the kind that rules at Red Hat, no doubt Red
Hat is doomed.
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Re: Autocorrection in OOo 3.1.1 and shortcut for navigating in Firefox when zoomed in

[Marcel Rieux]

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 6:21 PM, Christofer C. Bell <
christofer.c.b...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 5:16 PM, Marcel Rieux  wrote:
>
>
>> But that's just me and, of course, I'm a troll. I mean, is there any logic
>> in what I'm saying? Of course,  everybody knows if you don't pay, you
>> shouldn't complain about flawed software whose bugs any idiot could identify
>> at first sight. You shouldn't complain about no instructions being provided
>> for uninstalling Nvidia drivers, and so on. You shouldn't complain.
>>
>
> The problem isn't that you complain, it's that you bitch.  If you'd like to
> stop being a troll, it's easy.  Go file your "complaints" as bugs in
> Bugzilla and stop bitching on fedora-users.
>

Sure! The day I believe that OOo developers never noticed the disappearance
of the tab or, at least, that this fundamental function doesn't work, I'll
file a bug report.

Meanwhile, if Red Hat wants to continue shipping its product with such an
obvious bug, so be it. That's unless Red Hat is well aware of the bug and
ships it with Fedora to entice users to use their commercial version. (Why
is it that I believe this won't work?)

Please everybody, stop nagging me with filling reports on bugs that can't
possibly have escaped developers attention: this problem is all over the
net.

Excuse me for being frank but your answer isn't a proof of much cleverness.
All others who have the same kind of answer, please refrain.
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Re: Bind downloads

[Marcel Rieux]

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 6:06 PM, Kevin Fenzi  wrote:

> On Thu, 15 Jul 2010 17:44:02 -0400
> Marcel Rieux  wrote:
>
> > Once in a while, a pop-up shines saying "Download complete" when I
> > downloaded nothing.
>
> From what application? Can you tell by it's window? Web browser perhaps?
>

Firefox. When I open Downloads, I see,

bind(some number to rename the file)

0 bytes -- google.com


> > So, I checked the Downloads directory where,
> > since 04:12 till 04:57 today I have 7 bind 0 byte files. I don't know
> > what time this is since I received that last download notice about an
> > hour ago and it is 17:43 local time.
>
> bind? what are they called exactly
>

Just bind, not .bind. See below.


> ls -lZ output of the directory for us?
>

-rw-r--r--. marcel marcel unconfined_u:object_r:user_home_t:s0 bind
-rw-r--r--. marcel marcel unconfined_u:object_r:user_home_t:s0 bind(1)
-rw-r--r--. marcel marcel unconfined_u:object_r:user_home_t:s0 bind(2)
-rw-r--r--. marcel marcel unconfined_u:object_r:user_home_t:s0 bind(3)
-rw-r--r--. marcel marcel unconfined_u:object_r:user_home_t:s0 bind(4)
-rw-r--r--. marcel marcel unconfined_u:object_r:user_home_t:s0 bind(5)
-rw-r--r--. marcel marcel unconfined_u:object_r:user_home_t:s0 bind(6)

> Anybody knows what's this, why the system automatically downloads 0
> byte bind files?

 No idea. I would suspect a web page doing something funky.
>
> It would have to be from Google but I'm not sure the appearance of the
files correspond to Google access. I'll check. Note: I use gmail.
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Re: Autocorrection in OOo 3.1.1 and shortcut for navigating in Firefox when zoomed in

[Marcel Rieux]

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 6:06 PM, Frank Cox  wrote:

>
> On Thu, 2010-07-15 at 17:49 -0400, Marcel Rieux wrote:
> > I only install Fedora's available downloads. I figure there might be
> > problems using the latest versions if there not made available. I hope
> > 3.2.1 comes soon, so I can see some basic features enabled.
>
> You presented an issue that you see as a problem.  I provided an
> easily-implemented solution (with rpm's and everything).  Now you don't
> want the solution.
>

YOU say it's a solution. I don't know you, I don't deal with you. If Fedora
believes it's a solution, I'll apply it.

Thanks.
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Re: Autocorrection in OOo 3.1.1 and shortcut for navigating in Firefox when zoomed in

[Marcel Rieux]

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 5:43 PM, Christofer C. Bell <
christofer.c.b...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 3:42 PM, Marcel Rieux  wrote:
>
>>
>> How does Red Hat manages to ask thousand of dollars from companies when
>> Linux's main word processing software doesn't offer such basic
>> functionalities?
>>
>> Excuse me for trolling with facts -- because anything that's not hip, hip,
>> hurrah is trolling -- but I wonder if I'm not daydreaming wasting my time on
>> the net for something that should exist I'm told everywhere... but doesn't.
>>
>
> First off, Red Hat isn't asking thousands of dollars from companies that
> are using Linux as a word processor.  The entitlement for Red Hat Enterprise
> Linux Desktop is like $320/year or so.
>

$320 for one or a thousand desktops? For one, it's rather expensive, mainly
when the software doesn't work and nobody gives a damn. For a thousand, if
the software worked, at 32¢ per year it would be really cheap. I would think
that it's rather $320 than 32¢ a year for software that, in both cases,
doesn't work well. Problem!


>
> Secondly, Red Hat doesn't charge anything at all (nor could they) for
> Fedora, which is what you're using -- the free consumer product.  Not only
> are you using a free product, you're using an old version of it.
>

Ok, so that's why it's OK if it doesn't work! Windows at $35 (OEM) for 5-7
years seems a better alternative though. Red Hat salesmen must be really
competent. I certainly couldn't sell one Red Hat copy for sure.

>
> Facts are never trolling, but attitude is.  When you march in here and sort
> of turn up your nose, snort, and act all disgusted that your free product
> doesn't offer the feature you want
>

It's not the feature I want. It's the standard feature everybody needs and
has been available for years. Whare the hell has the Replace tab gone? Who
the hell has removed it? Does anybody know who's making Linux go awry?


> and make noise like everyone who thinks it's great anyway is an idiot
>

As Chrome OS, Android and Meego are about to flood the market, I do believe
everyone who thinks flawed software is great anyways is an idiot. You got
thisi right.

But that's just me and, of course, I'm a troll. I mean, is there any logic
in what I'm saying? Of course,  everybody knows if you don't pay, you
shouldn't complain about flawed software whose bugs any idiot could identify
at first sight. You shouldn't complain about no instructions being provided
for uninstalling Nvidia drivers, and so on. You shouldn't complain. As
Ballmer explains, when it's free, it's necessarily flawed. You should fill
reports on bugs that developers couldn't possibly help escaping.

Once you understand that Google and Intel/Nokia are Linux's future... hum,
why not Oracle too? you should just shut your yap, be patient and never
complain.

Thanks for your opinion, but I do believe I've heard it once or twice from
topmost so-called Linux advocates on this group. Nothing new.
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Re: Autocorrection in OOo 3.1.1 and shortcut for navigating in Firefox when zoomed in

[Marcel Rieux]

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 5:01 PM, Frank Cox  wrote:

>
> On Thu, 2010-07-15 at 16:47 -0400, Marcel Rieux wrote:
> > You have OOo 3.2.1 available on CentOS 5 when only 3.1.1 is available
> > on Fedora 12? Rather surprising!
>
> OO 3.2.1 is readily available for download directly from the
> openoffice.org website.  It comes as a set of rpm files that can be
> easily installed on Centos, RedHat and Fedora.  I not aware of any
> reason why you couldn't install OO 3.2.1 from the openoffice.org website
> on Fedora 12, though I've never actually tried it.
>
> I only install Fedora's available downloads. I figure there might be
> problems using the latest versions if there not made available. I hope 3.2.1
> comes soon, so I can see some basic features enabled.
>
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Bind downloads

[Marcel Rieux]

Once in a while, a pop-up shines saying "Download complete" when I
downloaded nothing. So, I checked the Downloads directory where, since 04:12
till 04:57 today I have 7 bind 0 byte files. I don't know what time this is
since I received that last download notice about an hour ago and it is 17:43
local time.

Anybody knows what's this, why the system automatically downloads 0 byte
bind files?
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Who's moderating this forum?

[Marcel Rieux]

Since I'm in rant mode, I might as well continue. There's a lot to be said
about how Fedora doesn't work!

On *Thu Jun 24 01:36:32 UTC 2010, **Joel Rees* wrote about there being no
instructions to revert from Nvidia to Nouveau drivers:

"No, re-installing to clear up a mess that may take more time to clear
up by hand than simply backing up your data and re-installing.

"Either way, it's an education, and you didn't come to Fedora
expecting not to be educated, did you?



Since when is reinstalling "an education"? Is this how Alan Cox, who
sometimes writes on this group, got educated? Of course, if you never
installed Linux, you might learn a few things. What swap,  / and home
partitions are, for instance. But if you ever installed Linux, what does
finding where are the data files for Firefox, Thunderbird, Evolution, etc,
will learn you about Linux? Nobody ever learned Linux this way.

I you want to learn Linux, you go linuxcommand.org and you learn bash. You
learn awk, sed, python, perl, php, C, assembler, whatever. This will get you
somewhere, not reinstalling.

Of course, the guy was bash-ing :) a so-called troll who doesn't howl with
the wolf pack. Is this the kind of attitude that will move Fedora and Red
Hat forward? Is the "You pay for Fedora in part with your time, in part with
some  sacrifice, relative to things like drivers and such." the attitude
that prevails at Ubuntu, even if Ubuntu users sometimes have to solve
problems too?

How come, when such comments occur, nobody says: "Sorry, this is full
bullshit. There's a problem." How come there's never any problem when normal
users say there is. Is the user always being wrong  the right attitude that
will move Fedora/Red Hat forward? I said it isn't Ubuntu's attitude, it's
certainly even less at Google's Chrome OS. Is this how Apple got so popular
with a *NIX system?

The typical answer to this is "You don't like Fedora? Go away. Use Ubuntu,
Chrome OS, whatever you like." Who's contributing this kind of nonsense that
will eventually leave Red Hat in some kind of Sun bubble?

I don't understand how come nobody responsible for this group tries to make
discussions move forward to better results for Red Hat, whether it be about
uninstalling Nvidia drivers or OOo not offering basic features that Red Hat
should rely on to sell its support, etc. Who's teh Steve Jobs here who says
"The user is right!" ?

IMO, there is a flaw in this list's moderation. And that's my contribution.
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Re: Autocorrection in OOo 3.1.1 and shortcut for navigating in Firefox when zoomed in

[Marcel Rieux]

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 4:30 PM, Frank Cox  wrote:

>
> On Thu, 2010-07-15 at 15:17 -0500, Christofer C. Bell wrote:
> > It's no mystery why "no one knows how to make autocorrections," the
> > functionality doesn't exist.  It's documented in the help files how to
> > something similar, but the necessary configuration tab doesn't exist
> > on the AutoCorrect Options control panel (there is no "Replace" tab
> > available).
>
> I run Ooenoffice 3.2.1 (downloaded directly from openoffice.org) on this
> Centos 5 machine and I have a Replace tab on the Tools-Autocorrect
> window.
>
> You have OOo 3.2.1 available on CentOS 5 when only 3.1.1 is available on
Fedora 12? Rather surprising!
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Re: Autocorrection in OOo 3.1.1 and shortcut for navigating in Firefox when zoomed in

[Marcel Rieux]

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 4:17 PM, Christofer C. Bell <
christofer.c.b...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 2:49 PM, Marcel Rieux  wrote:
> >
> > No. as the tile and the line above say, I mean in OOo 3.3.1
> >
> > Still no answer to this question. Isn't it amazing that that no Fedora
> user,
> > including me, knows how to make autocorrections in OOo 3.1.1? No doubt I
> > should register to OOo forums to be fed some more nonsence.
>
> It's no mystery why "no one knows how to make autocorrections," the
> functionality doesn't exist.  It's documented in the help files how to
> something similar, but the necessary configuration tab doesn't exist on the
> AutoCorrect Options control panel (there is no "Replace" tab available).
>
> I have automatically Check Spelling enabled. That's not what I want. I want
AutoCorrection, a very basic functionality in word processors nowadays. From
the documentation on the net, it even seems the "feature" was  once offered.
Who removed the tab? Should I write to Oracle about this? Maybe they're
unaware of the tab disappearance because they use MS Office?

How does Red Hat manages to ask thousand of dollars from companies when
Linux's main word processing software doesn't offer such basic
functionalities?

Excuse me for trolling with facts -- because anything that's not hip, hip,
hurrah is trolling -- but I wonder if I'm not daydreaming wasting my time on
the net for something that should exist I'm told everywhere... but doesn't.
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Wo, I'm asking RPMfusion how to uninstall Kmod nvidia

[Marcel Rieux]

As everybody suggested I wrote to RPMFusion on how to make a clean uninstall
of Kmod Nvidia. E.g.: suggested by:

*Alan Evans, who wrote:
*

"It is their responsibility to explain how to uninstall that software. Simple."

http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/users/2010-June/376088.html*

Todd Zullinger, who wrote:
*

"If that causes you problems, please talk to the folks at RPMfusion and
offer to help."

http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/users/2010-June/375863.html*
*
*Bruno Wolff III, who wrote:

*"All of this stuff should be taken up with the RPMFusion developers."

http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/users/2010-June/375971.html*
*

*Dennis Gilmore, who wrote:

*"Please take up any issue you have with the nvidia drivers with either nvidia
itself or the provider of the kernel module you are using."

http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/users/2010-June/375864.html

*Michael Cronenworth, who wrote:*

"Please stop posting in this off-topic thread."

http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/users/2010-June/375943.html

*Mikkel, who wrote:*

"Do you get the feeling that people have stopped taking you seriously?"

http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/users/2010-June/376095.html

I wrote the following message to RPMFusion's list:

How do I uninstall Kmod Nvidia to make a clean Nouveau install on
Fedora 12? 


http://lists.rpmfusion.org/pipermail/rpmfusion-users/2010-July/thread.html

In July, there are 6 posts on this list, 3 by me.

Fedora''s support is great so, I'm hopeful. Let's see what happens.
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Re: Autocorrection in OOo 3.1.1 and shortcut for navigating in Firefox when zoomed in

[Marcel Rieux]

On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 10:04 PM, Rick Stevens  wrote:

> On 07/14/2010 03:54 PM, Marcel Rieux wrote:
> > On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 4:40 PM, Smith, Herb
>  wrote:
> >
> >> *From:* users-boun...@lists.fedoraproject.org [mailto:
> >> users-boun...@lists.fedoraproject.org] *On Behalf Of *Marcel Rieux
> >> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 14, 2010 3:26 PM
> >> *To:* Community support for Fedora users
> >> *Subject:* OT: Autocorrection in OOo 3.1.1 and shortcut for navigating
> in
> >> Firefox when zoomed in
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I often type voyels too fast so I'd like errors such as "teh" to be
> >> automatically corrected to "the". I searched the web but all the
> solutions I
> >> found involved using menu entries that are not in OOo 3.1.1. Does
> anybody
> >> know how to do this?
>
> If you mean in Firefox
>

No. as the tile and the line above say, I mean in OOo 3.3.1

Still no answer to this question. Isn't it amazing that that no Fedora user,
including me, knows how to make autocorrections in OOo 3.1.1? No doubt I
should register to OOo forums to be fed some more nonsence.

One wonders how MS Office is doing so good... Sabotage somewhere? Will
anybody now pretend that Oracle is not sabotaging Open Solaris? So why not
sabotage OOo in one fell swoop?

Fortunately Red Hat doesn't offer any service to companies using OOo :)
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Re: Crashes

[Marcel Rieux]

On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 4:46 PM, Kevin J. Cummings <
cummi...@kjchome.homeip.net> wrote:

> On 07/14/2010 04:33 PM, Marcel Rieux wrote:
> > Firefox is often killed by signal 11:
> >
> > Package:firefox-3.5.10-1.fc12
> > Latest Crash:Mon 12 Jul 2010 11:45:16 PM
> > Command:/usr/lib64/firefox-3.5/firefox --sm-config-prefix
> > /firefox-P8PZv6/ --sm-client-id
> > 10a7781fec216fecbb1278870778770015530047 --screen 0
> > Reason: Process /usr/lib64/firefox-3.5/firefox was killed by
> > signal 11 (SIGSEGV)
> > Comment:None
> > Bug Reports:
> >
> > Today, abrt even reported a kernel crash... with no detail:
> >
> > Package:kernel
> > Latest Crash:Tue 13 Jul 2010 09:29:07 PM
> > Command:not_applicable
> > Reason: [ cut here ]
> > Comment:None
> > Bug Reports:
> >
> > But the system stayed stable. Is this any cause for concern. Is this
> > really the kind of stuff that should be reported? I wonder if, for
> > know-nothing liek me, abrt is more than a nuisance.
>
> If you are absolutely sure that the program in question is good, then
> SIG11 probably means you have a hardware problem.  In this case, it
> could be a RAM problem, either a bad RAM stick, or one that fails under
> stress, and firefox can certainly be stressful when it wants to be.  B^)
>

Firefox, stressful? When you're reading text or loading a page, no video? I
wonder what your smiley is supposed to mean. I tested the memory about 6
months ago. It was OK.

But I have lots of problems with electricity. 3 power failures last weekend.
The switch of a lamp that I changed 2 years ago is still dead. I turn the
light on only once or twice at night. About 15 minutes after I open it, my
LCD TV makes a very loud nosie and the image disappears making place to some
heavy "snow". It lasts a few seconds, then the image and sound come back to
normal. There's no correspondence between these problems and the computer
problems though.

I'll continue the inquiry. Thanks for your help. I saved the page and I'll
check when I have time.
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Re: Autocorrection in OOo 3.1.1 and shortcut for navigating in Firefox when zoomed in

[Marcel Rieux]

On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 4:40 PM, Smith, Herb  wrote:

> *From:* users-boun...@lists.fedoraproject.org [mailto:
> users-boun...@lists.fedoraproject.org] *On Behalf Of *Marcel Rieux
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 14, 2010 3:26 PM
> *To:* Community support for Fedora users
> *Subject:* OT: Autocorrection in OOo 3.1.1 and shortcut for navigating in
> Firefox when zoomed in
>
>
>
> I often type voyels too fast so I'd like errors such as "teh" to be
> automatically corrected to "the". I searched the web but all the solutions I
> found involved using menu entries that are not in OOo 3.1.1. Does anybody
> know how to do this?
>
> I often use the zoom in Firefox, Is there any way to make Firefox remember
> a default zoom? Is there a keyboard shortcut to navigate to the right of the
> screen when zoomed in? Always using the bottom scrollbar is a pain.
>
> TIA
>
>
>
> Tools -> AutoCorrect Options -> Replace tab
>
> You can set up automatic replacements for various errors in typing there...
>

This has been my problem all along: I don't find the tabs, here, the replace
tab.

I use the french interface and, under Autocorrection, I have (translated
when needed):

 1st tab: Exceptions

 2nd tab: Options

 3rd tab: Typographic quotes

 4th tab: Automatic insertion

I see nothing anywhere under these tabs to make autocorrections.
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Re: OT: Autocorrection in OOo 3.1.1 and shortcut for navigating in Firefox when zoomed in

[Marcel Rieux]

On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 4:37 PM, Sam Sharpe wrote:

> On 14 July 2010 21:25, Marcel Rieux  wrote:
>


> > I often use the zoom in Firefox, Is there any way to make Firefox
> remember a default zoom?
> > Is there a keyboard shortcut to navigate to the right of the screen when
> zoomed in? Always
> > using the bottom scrollbar is a pain.
>
> Zooming: Natively, no.
>  With an addon, yes:
> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/2592/
>

Ok. Works fine!

>
> Panning: Yes, unless you don't have direction arrows on your keyboard. Try
> hitting the Right
>   arrow a couple of times.
>

Arrrgh! I Must have tried every combination with the right arrow, except the
arrow alone.

Thanks!
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Crashes

[Marcel Rieux]

Firefox is often killed by signal 11:

Package:firefox-3.5.10-1.fc12
Latest Crash:Mon 12 Jul 2010 11:45:16 PM
Command:/usr/lib64/firefox-3.5/firefox --sm-config-prefix
/firefox-P8PZv6/ --sm-client-id
10a7781fec216fecbb1278870778770015530047 --screen 0
Reason: Process /usr/lib64/firefox-3.5/firefox was killed by signal
11 (SIGSEGV)
Comment:None
Bug Reports:

Today, abrt even reported a kernel crash... with no detail:

Package:kernel
Latest Crash:Tue 13 Jul 2010 09:29:07 PM
Command:not_applicable
Reason: [ cut here ]
Comment:None
Bug Reports:

But the system stayed stable. Is this any cause for concern. Is this really
the kind of stuff that should be reported? I wonder if, for know-nothing
liek me, abrt is more than a nuisance.
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OT: Autocorrection in OOo 3.1.1 and shortcut for navigating in Firefox when zoomed in

[Marcel Rieux]

I often type voyels too fast so I'd like errors such as "teh" to be
automatically corrected to "the". I searched the web but all the solutions I
found involved using menu entries that are not in OOo 3.1.1. Does anybody
know how to do this?

I often use the zoom in Firefox, Is there any way to make Firefox remember a
default zoom? Is there a keyboard shortcut to navigate to the right of the
screen when zoomed in? Always using the bottom scrollbar is a pain.

TIA
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Re: Another funny update?

[Marcel Rieux]

On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 11:39 PM, Bruno Wolff III  wrote:

>
> One way is to back up your data and reinstall Fedora. That's simple to
> explain and reliable. It's an annoying amount of work, but it might have
> taken less of your time as things turned out.
>

Reinstalling to install a driver? Are you serious! That's worst than being
back to the Windows days!
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Re: Another funny update?

[Marcel Rieux]

On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 11:52 PM, Dennis Gilmore  wrote:

> On Tuesday, June 22, 2010 10:39:16 pm Marcel Rieux wrote:
> > On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 6:34 PM, Dennis Gilmore  wrote:
> > > reverse whatever it was you did to enable the nvidia driver, then you
> get
> > > Nouveau since its the default.
> >
> > How do you, for instance, reverse:
> >
> > su -
> > mv /boot/initramfs-$(uname -r).img /boot/initramfs-$(uname
> -r)-nouveau.img
>
> one command
>
> mv  /boot/initramfs-$(uname -r)-nouveau.img  /boot/initramfs-$(uname
> -r).img
>


Oops! One MORE command. Before, Rahul Sundaram suggested that all you had to
do was

yum remove kmod-nvidia.

Kevin Fensi suggests I use these instructions on installing
mesa-dri-drivers-experimental:

http://fedorasolved.org/Members/dcr226/nouveau-kmods-mesa-dri-exper/

Whose's right?

What I get from all this is that moving from NVIDIA drivers to Nouveau will
be the same kind of pain that I went through when I tried to install the
Nvidia drivers with the "help" from FedoraFAQ. It just didn't work and the
wrong information was never corrected.

What does this spell? When you want to get instructions to install  NV
drivers, you go to the place that provides said drivers: RPMFusion. When you
want to install NOuveau drivers, you should go to the place that provides
Nouveau drivers.

Tell me, are they there to be found?

Once again, and this is bound to be the last answer I give. (Michael
Cronenworth is finally turning out right about the excessive lenght of this
thread, not about the OT status, though.

The day Nouveau developers give enough of a shit about their product to do a
test on uninstalling the Nvidia drivers and providing precise instruction on
a Fedora page... I'll give it a thought.
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Re: Another funny update?

[Marcel Rieux]

On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 11:52 PM, Dennis Gilmore  wrote:

>
> there are multiple ways to install nvidias drivers. Its really not simple
> to
> cover them all. some ways like using the installer directly from nvidia
> replace a bunch of Xorg bits
>

It's most likely that people who have installed with the installer provided
by NVIDIA are not newbies. Am I right in thinking that installing an
executable that is not part of Fedora would make SELinux cry out loud?

Most people have installed with rpmfusion. That's the reverse emthod that
should be provided.
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Re: Another funny update?

[Marcel Rieux]

On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 11:54 PM, Dennis Gilmore  wrote:

> On Tuesday, June 22, 2010 05:34:05 pm Marcel Rieux wrote:
> > As a simple user, I'm not in a position to fight RPMFusion. So, if the
> > Nouveau developers don't want to provide instructions on how to install
> > Nouveau when NVIDIA is installed, people like Dennis Gilmore  will find
> the
> > hard way what "fight[ing] a tough battle" really means.
>
> Why are you attacking me for?
>

I'm not attacking you, I'm stating a very plain fact. If RPMfusion says
"Sure, we'll help you move from Nouveau to NIVDIA" and, when people want to
come back to Nouveau, Nouveau developers answer "Ah, you fucked up your
system? Good luck!" the people who adopted the NVIDIA module will be stuck
with a one way ticket. And, whatever happens with Nouveau, some people will
always want to try the module provided by NVIDIA.

I don't know where RPMFsion stands on this issue, but they might not want to
make your life easier by providing instructions on how to remove their blob.
So, what I'm saying is that it's for you to decide if you want to make your
battle tougher with one way tickets to NVIDIA.
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Re: Another funny update?

[Marcel Rieux]

On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 6:34 PM, Dennis Gilmore  wrote:

>
>
> reverse whatever it was you did to enable the nvidia driver, then you get
> Nouveau since its the default.
>

How do you, for instance, reverse:

su -
mv /boot/initramfs-$(uname -r).img /boot/initramfs-$(uname -r)-nouveau.img
dracut /boot/initramfs-$(uname -r).img $(uname -r)

YOU probably know. I don't. Many Fedora users don't, I'm sure.

The day you provide instructions on a page belonging to Fedora/Nouveau
on how to install Nouveau the same way RPMFusion does for the NVIDIA module,
I'll give some thought to Nouveau. For now, I must say that I'm quite
discouraged by your attitude. I feel as if I was discussing nonsense
on a Debian group.
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Re: Another funny update?

[Marcel Rieux]

On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 4:21 PM, Bruno Wolff III  wrote:

> On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 15:55:32 -0400,
>   Marcel Rieux  wrote:
> >
> > And  RPMfusion provides instructions on how to get Nouveau out of the way
> to
> > do a clean install. Why, as I was explaining to Dennis Gilmore, shouldn't
> > the Nouveau developers provide instructions to do the opposite?
>
> No I don't think so. Fedora is designed to be self consistent. If third
> party packages mess it up, there isn't any way for the Fedora developers to
> know any special magic needed to fix things without having detailed
> knowledge
> of the third party packages. (Other than the standard uninstall the problem
> package or reinstall from scratch, neither of which are good solutions in
> this case.) Whereas RPMFusion is meant to be an add on to Fedora and the
> combination of the two is meant to be self consistent. They need to know
> both systems (though more detail about their stuff). They should be able to
> tell you how to go back from having the nVidia kmod doing graphics to
> nouveau.
>

Ok, I'll take your POV. They should say why the module was 4-5 late... but
they don't.

They must surely be aware that, now that Nouveau offers at least some basic
3D, some users, given the quirks that sometimes happen with kmod, must be
interested to switch back to Nouveau, but they don't provide the info.

As a simple user, I'm not in a position to fight RPMFusion. So, if the
Nouveau developers don't want to provide instructions on how to install
Nouveau when NVIDIA is installed, people like Dennis Gilmore  will find the
hard way what "fight[ing] a tough battle" really means.

Until I got to RPMFusion's site, I had many problems installing the kmod
module. This site had this recipe and the other had this one and nothing
worked. But I could rely on Nouveau meanwhile. Now, Nouveau is disabled and
I won't spend a month searching on the net with possibly the most basic Xorg
driver.

If Nouveau developers want to make their fight even tougher, they have the
right recipe: just don't tell how to revert from NVIDIA to Nouveau. Keep it
secret! Not our business! Let the user have all the fun of searching and
pestering.

Once again, I wonder why Fedora is doing so poorly on the desktop...
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Re: Another funny update?

[Marcel Rieux]

On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 3:55 PM, Marcel Rieux  wrote:
>
>
> I'll check.
>

The question has been asked here on the 17th:

http://lists.rpmfusion.org/pipermail/rpmfusion-users/2010-June/000682.html

There's one reply to the message, it's somebody explaining Fedora 12 has the
same problem as 13.
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Re: Another funny update?

[Marcel Rieux]

On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 2:59 AM, Bruno Wolff III  wrote:

>
> That makes no sense. If you ask them for information about why this
> particular kmod package was delayed, I doubt that they would give you
> an answer anything like you suggest.
>

Oops, sorry! I read too fast and thought, because of previous messages, we
were talking about how to uninstall NVIDIA Module. Yes I suppose i could
register and ask. But i wrote to a certain Dan at RPMFusion about this. If
the problem isn't already mentioned on the forum, i doubt I'll get any
answer: it would mean the forum is dead.

I'll check.

> If the people who provide Nouveau weren't on an ego trip and cared about
> > their product, they'd provide instructions on how to install it, just as
> > RPMFusion does. The fact that the NVIDIA driver is not open source is
> > irrelevant.
>
> This makes no sense. Nouveau is installed by default in Fedora.
>

And  RPMfusion provides instructions on how to get Nouveau out of the way to
do a clean install. Why, as I was explaining to Dennis Gilmore, shouldn't
the Nouveau developers provide instructions to do the opposite?
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Re: Another funny update?

[Marcel Rieux]

On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 12:11 AM, Dennis Gilmore  wrote:


> We have developers working really hard to make things just work in a
> completely free and open way.  they are fight a tough battle that is part
> of
> what defines fedora for what it is.


The best way to win this "tough battle" is to provide precise instructions
on how to get rid of NVIDIA kernel modules once there're installed. If you
can't dig this I don't believe it's any use discussing.



> I honestly don't care if you think we
> should support nvidia binary blobs or not.


Where did I say you should "support nvidia binary blobs"? Is giving
instructions on how to uninstall the module any way to support NVIDIA
drivers?

In my world, if you explain how to install the NVIDIA driver and get teh
Nouveau driver out of the way -- and RPMFusion does this! -- you support
NVIDIA. If you do the opposite, you support Nouveau.

If Nouveau developers can't understand this, my take is that, as bad as
NVIDIA support can be, Nouveau's going to be worst. Providing instructions
on how to install a driver seems to me like a bare minimum.
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Re: Another funny update?

[Marcel Rieux]

On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 3:37 PM, Bruno Wolff III  wrote:

> On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 15:17:14 -0400,
>  Marcel Rieux  wrote:
> > (Snip) So, finally, 4 days after the kernel update, a corresponding
> nvidia
> > kernel module was provided. Not a word anywhere as to why the module
> wasn't
> > provided with the kernel as usual.
>
> Did you ask on the RPMFusion lists?
>

No, but I have a pretty good idea of what I'd be told there. They'd say that
their business is to teach how to install kmod-nvidia correctly and that if
I want to install Nouveau, I should ask Fedora. Wouldn't it make sense?

If the people who provide Nouveau weren't on an ego trip and cared about
their product, they'd provide instructions on how to install it, just as
RPMFusion does. The fact that the NVIDIA driver is not open source is
irrelevant.
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Re: Another funny update?

[Marcel Rieux]

(Snip) So, finally, 4 days after the kernel update, a corresponding nvidia
kernel module was provided. Not a word anywhere as to why the module wasn't
provided with the kernel as usual.
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Re: Another funny update?

[Marcel Rieux]

On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 4:31 PM, Bruno Wolff III  wrote:

> On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 16:25:38 -0400,
>   Marcel Rieux  wrote:
> >
> > Another thing that would be nice is an howto on disinstalling nvidia
> drivers
> > made available on Fedora's or rpmfusion's site. Last time I looked there
> > were none, if I remember well.
>
> This page has some of what you want:
> http://rpmfusion.org/RPMFusionSwitcher
>

This paeg says:

You should also use this tool manually if you want to temporarily switch
back to the Xorg driver without uninstalling the Nvidia driver. Just run as
root:

  /usr/sbin/nvidia-config-display disable

Nothing on how to uninstall the nvidia driver, just on how to disable it.
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Re: Another funny update?

[Marcel Rieux]

On Sat, Jun 19, 2010 at 12:16 AM, Bruno Wolff III  wrote:

> On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 22:02:49 -0400,
>   Marcel Rieux  wrote:
> >
> > As I said, I don't believe rpmfusion, a repository not supported by Red
> > Hat/Fedora,  could block a kernel update.
>
> They can using 'conflicts' in the spec file.


What's this spec file? How do you use conflicts?


> If the kmod is installed first,
>

How do I make "if" less iffy?

You'll have to explain this whole process. I'd be very surprised if a
repository not belonging to Red Hat/Fedora could prevent a kernel upgrade or
any upgrade. This could eb dangerous.


> You can also set your system so that the default boot kernel doesn't change
> when there is a kernel update. This protects you from the kmod being
> released
> late problem at the cost of having to manually switch boot kernels after
> every kernel + kmod update.
>

If you remember the beginning of this discussion, we were talking about the
problems the missing kmod could occcasion to newbies. I always check
that the corresponding kmod is there and if I'd ever forget, it would be no
problem reverting to the previous kernel. But a newbie might decide that
"this thing doesn't work" and go back to Windows.

Your "solution" is not a solution for newbies.

Now, here's the upgrade suggestion I received today:

Package kernel.x86_64 0:2.6.32.14-127.fc12 set to be installed
---> Package kernel-firmware.noarch 0:2.6.32.14-127.fc12 set to be updated
---> Package kernel-headers.x86_64 0:2.6.32.14-127.fc12 set to be updated
---> Package kmod-nvidia.x86_64 1:195.36.24-1.fc12.3 set to be updated
--> Processing Dependency: kmod-nvidia-2.6.32.14-127.fc12.x86_64 >=
1:195.36.24-1.fc12.3 for package: 1:kmod-nvidia-195.36.24-1.fc12.3.x86_64

kernel x86_64 2.6.32.14-127.fc12 updates 21 M
kernel-firmware noarch 2.6.32.14-127.fc12 updates 973 k
kernel-headers x86_64 2.6.32.14-127.fc12 updates 754 k
kmod-nvidia x86_64 1:195.36.24-1.fc12.3 rpmfusion-nonfree-updates 31 k

It somehow doesn't seem to me like a standard upgrade...
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Re: Another funny update?

[Marcel Rieux]

On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 8:18 PM, Bruno Wolff III  wrote:


> If you think that getting an updated
> kernel installed without the corresponding nVidia kmod being installed is
> a problem, you could suggest that they use conflicts to block those
> updates.


As I said, I don't believe rpmfusion, a repository not supported by Red
Hat/Fedora,  could block a kernel update.


> They may counter suggest that people who feel this is a problem
> should be using amods in stead of kmods


I used akmod once because kmod wasn't provided. It didn't work.,, for me,
though it seems that it worked for some peopke on this list. I have no idea
how theses things work but maybe they have problems making kmod work for
every card??? Anyway, working with akmod was not a pleasant experience for
me and I've sworn I'd never get back to it,

It's now 4 days that the latest kernel has been released and the equivalent
quernel module is still not available.
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Re: Another funny update?

[Marcel Rieux]

On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 12:27 AM, Craig White wrote:

>
> the way it works is that rpmfusion cannot build their kmod's until
> Fedora ships a new kernel. So there is a lag of time between the kernel
> update and the packages from rpmfusion
>

No. Usually, the kernel and the module arrive at the same time. That's why I
think RPMfusion gets some idea of the upcoming kernel somewhere.
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Re: Another funny update?

[Marcel Rieux]

On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 11:02 PM, Bruno Wolff III  wrote:

> On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 19:52:49 -0400,
>   Marcel Rieux  wrote:
> >
> > Isn't RPMfusion preparing its upcoming module according to the kernel
> > version that is in Testing? I would think that RPMfusion has a nice
> working
> > module for kernel 2.6.32.10-92.fc12. Since Fedora decided instead to
> update
> > with 2.6.32.14-127.fc12 without a warning ,they might decide to never
> > provide the module for this kernel.
>
> They have other ways to see what kernels are being built. They also should
> notice that the testing version is older and that some sort of oops occured
> and not waste their time making a kmod for it.
>

I have since checked what kernel were lately installed. I have:

2.6.32.10-90.fc12.x86_64
2.6.32.11-99.fc12.x86_64
2.6.32.12-115.fc12.x86_64

So the kernel in testing is definitely a big oops! You're right, they
shouldn't have wasted their time on this.

> If there was no way, Fedora should provide excuses. Or, if Fedora doesn't
> want to play the game with RPMfusion because NVIDIA drivers are not open
> source, they should say so and everybody will move to Nouveau. People
using
> Fedora will know that NVIDIA drivers are not available.

 Fedora pretty much does say people should use Nouveau.


Pretty much... Now hat it has some basic 3D support.


> You continue to complain to the wrong people. RPMFusion supports the
> rpms for the proprietary nVidia drivers and if you want anything to
> change, you should be complaining to them, as they are the ones that
> need to fix things.
>

I wrote to a certain Dan at rpmfusion, but I dougt I'll get an answer. I'm
sure rpmfusion is fully aware that they don't offer teh nvidia module for
the present kernel. and I would make a bet that people at Fedora are well
aware of what's going on.
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Re: Klipper search box doesn't disappear

[Marcel Rieux]

On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 12:23 AM, Ed Greshko  wrote:

> On 06/17/2010 07:07 AM, Marcel Rieux wrote:
> > So, neither you nor Ed Grashko have the problem with Fedora 13. Rex
> > Dieter doesn't say which version he's using. (I use F12).
> >
> > I suppose, after a search, I'll use CTRL + V to paste until I upgrade
> > to Fedora 13. Since Ed says he doesn't have the problem with F11, the
> > problem is definitely not widespread.
> FWIW, I resurrected an F12 system and fully updated itabout 1GB of
> download...and tested.  No problem for me.
>
> Starting to wonder if the problem you are seeing is related to your
> video hardware.  A long time ago I did have an issue where  areas of the
> screen didn't clear.  But, was random and not consistently repeatable.
>

I doubt it. It's the oznly thing that doesn't clear and it's repeatable. It
happens every time.

I'll see what happens when I upgrade to F13. Also, by that time, maybe I'll
have found reliable instructions on how to uninstall --not disable!--
kmod-nvidia.
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Re: Another funny update?

[Marcel Rieux]

On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 11:23 PM, Bruno Wolff III  wrote:

> On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 19:03:41 -0400,
>   Marcel Rieux  wrote:
> >
> > How can rpmfusion provide the module for a kernel it's not expecting
> because
> > the one in testing -- posted yesterday -- is an earlier kernel? This
> > seems to me like an important post and everybody ignores it.
>
> Accidentally pushing an earlier version of the kernel to testing isn't
> going to cause a problem for people using kmod's because it won't be
> installed as an update. Someone would have to manually install that
> specific version.
>

Isn't RPMfusion preparing its upcoming module according to the kernel
version that is in Testing? I would think that RPMfusion has a nice working
module for kernel 2.6.32.10-92.fc12. Since Fedora decided instead to update
with 2.6.32.14-127.fc12 without a warning ,they might decide to never
provide the module for this kernel.

But I not fully aware of the development process. Is there any way RPMfusion
could have known which kernel was to be released when it was not the one in
testing?

If there was an official way RPMfusion could know the number of the upcoming
kernel, what is it? In this case, RPMfusion didn't do its job properly.

If there was no way, Fedora should provide excuses. Or, if Fedora doesn't
want to play the game with RPMfusion because NVIDIA drivers are not open
source, they should say so and everybody will move to Nouveau. People using
Fedora will know that NVIDIA drivers are not available.

What is unacceptable is the present situation, where you can't get a shade
of an explanation as to what happened. From a serious distro, this is
totally unacceptable.

So, let me ask: why wasn't the kernel in testing released? If the one that
has finally been offered was deemed better, why wasn't it put in testing
before release?
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Re: Another funny update?

[Marcel Rieux]

On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 7:22 PM, Kevin Martin  wrote:

>
> This has nothing to do with "who broke what".  This has everything to do
> with attempting to make Fedora, and other Linux variants, mainstream
> enough for the common person to use.
>

Have you seen Taxi Driver? There's a reply where De Niro says "Do like me."
So people here can't think beyond their own view. They believe "the
druggist  *from Toledo*" should do like them.

Red Hat may be behaving like it's following Sun's road, Ubuntu and Google
might be reaping newcomers by the thousands, they don't give a shit. They're
the real ones and they'll be fighting until the last stand.

It's no use to try to make them understand that a distro needs a user base
as wide as possible. Their only answer will be: if you like Windows, why
don't you use it?

I decided to lose as little time as possible discussing with these people.
It only adds noise to the discussion.
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Re: Klipper search box doesn't disappear

[Marcel Rieux]

On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 10:24 PM, Steven P. Ulrick <
lists-fed...@afolkey2.net> wrote:

> > On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 6:45 PM, Ed Greshko 
> wrote:
> >
> > > On 06/16/2010 04:54 AM, Marcel Rieux wrote:
> > > >
> > > > So. if somebody could fill the bug report, I would appreciate. It's
> > > > not an activity I'll ever get really good at, I afraid.
> > > >
> > > > P.s.: Maybe you can wait for Ed Gresko to confirm if he really
> doesn't
> > > > have a problem.
> > > I don't see the problem in either GNOME or KDE in either F11 or F13.
> > >
> > > Here, with Fedora 12, GNOME (KDE installed, not used) the search box
> hides
> > first entry.
> >
> > Maybe somebody else could check? I suppose we're not only 3 using Klipper
> on
> > this group.
>
> On Fedora 13, fully updated from the official repos, Klipper does NOT hide
> the
> first entry with the search box.  I have not had any issues with this in
> KDE, and
> I logged into Gnome just to check it out.  The first search entry is never
> hidden
> by the search box on my system.
>

So, neither you nor Ed Grashko have the problem with Fedora 13. Rex Dieter
doesn't say which version he's using. (I use F12).

I suppose, after a search, I'll use CTRL + V to paste until I upgrade to
Fedora 13. Since Ed says he doesn't have the problem with F11, the problem
is definitely not widespread.
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Re: Klipper search box doesn't disappear

[Marcel Rieux]

On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 6:45 PM, Ed Greshko  wrote:

> On 06/16/2010 04:54 AM, Marcel Rieux wrote:
> >
> > So. if somebody could fill the bug report, I would appreciate. It's
> > not an activity I'll ever get really good at, I afraid.
> >
> > P.s.: Maybe you can wait for Ed Gresko to confirm if he really doesn't
> > have a problem.
> I don't see the problem in either GNOME or KDE in either F11 or F13.
>
> Here, with Fedora 12, GNOME (KDE installed, not used) the search box hides
first entry.

Maybe somebody else could check? I suppose we're not only 3 using Klipper on
this group.
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Re: Another funny update?

[Marcel Rieux]

On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 5:05 PM, David Boles  wrote:

> On 6/15/2010 4:35 PM, Kevin Martin wrote:
> > On 06/15/2010 02:30 PM, mike cloaked wrote:
> >> On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 7:33 PM, Bruno Wolff III 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> I used to use kmod-nvidia(-PAE) and what I used to do was:
> >> yum check-update
> >>
> >> Then if there was a kernel but no kmod update listed then I did an
> >> update excluding the kernel -
> >>
> >> Later in the day do it again and if the kmod is then available do a
> >> complete update -
> >> Is that so difficult?
> >>
> >> I also used to use akmod-nvidia and found after some trial and error
> >> that there was no -PAE version whereas there was a -PAE version of
> >> kmod-nvidia-PAE so one had to be a little careful about exactly which
> >> package to use!
> >>
> >> Hope this helps.
> >>
> >>
> > Not so difficult, just seems like it should be unnecessary.  If there
> > are dependencies in installed components that will be broken by an
> > update then the update shouldn't be offered/shown by yum/packagekit
> > until the an updated dependency is satisfied (that sounds odd to me but
> > I hope you understand what I mean).
>
>
>
> Fedora provides you, free of charge, a perfectly good, working,
> operating system. And they maintain that system. As provided.
>
> You modified it by adding a package, or packages, from a non Fedora
> site(s). Fedora provided improvements and bug fixes for the system that
> they provide and maintain that 'broke' when you modified that system?
>
> You modified your system. So you should fix it.
>

Have you read this message:

http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/users/2010-June/375289.html

How can rpmfusion provide the module for a kernel it's not expecting because
the one in testing -- posted yesterday -- is an earlier kernel? This
seems to me like an important post and everybody ignores it.

rpmfusion is not at fault. Unless it's admissible for Fedora to play tricks
on rpmfusion, the whole problem lies with Fedora.

If there's something I don't get, what is it?
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Re: Another funny update?

[Marcel Rieux]

On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 5:05 PM, David Boles  wrote:

>
> Fedora provides you, free of charge, a perfectly good, working,
> operating system. And they maintain that system. As provided.
>
> You modified it by adding a package, or packages, from a non Fedora
> site(s). Fedora provided improvements and bug fixes for the system that
> they provide and maintain that 'broke' when you modified that system?
>
> You modified your system. So you should fix it.
>

Did you read this message:

http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/users/2010-June/375289.html

How can rpmfusion provide the module for a kernel it's not expecting because
the one in testing -- posted yesterday -- is an earlier kernel? This
seems to me like an important post and everybody ignores it.

rpmfusion is not at fault. Unless it's admissible for Fedora to play tricks
on rpmfusion, the whole problem is with Fedora.

If there's something I don't get, what is it?

As for your "did you know", I said I know all that. Here, no doubt. I just
believe that updates should work without any problem. This unannounced new
kernel business is just crazy. There's no need for this.
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Re: Klipper search box doesn't disappear

[Marcel Rieux]

On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 11:00 AM, Rex Dieter  wrote:

> Marcel Rieux wrote:
>
> > I use Klipper in Gnome. When I do a search in Klipper, the search box
> > doesn't disappear and hides the first entry until the computer is
> > rebooted. I found no instructions anywhere on how to close it. Is there a
> > default way to close boxes?
>
> Confirmed (in kde too), smells like a bug to me.  Mind filing one?
>

Me, it's in GNOME, so if the bug is in KDE too, maybe it would be better if
you filled the bug? You might have more experience than me for filling bugs?

Also, I don't really like to add this, but it's a fact that the community
will have to deal with: I'm mighty sick. Today, I saw a lung specialist, an
internist and an endocrinologist. This is exceptional, but I see about 3
doctors a month. I take lots of medication. I sleep about 6 hours in a 12
hour night. Just bending makes me dizzy. And I have to write a summary of
the evolution of my health problems in the last ten years for all my doctors
who have changed along the years and who do not always keep seriously in
touch.

So. if somebody could fill the bug report, I would appreciate. It's not an
activity I'll ever get really good at, I afraid.

P.s.: Maybe you can wait for Ed Gresko to confirm if he really doesn't have
a problem.
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Re: Another funny update?

[Marcel Rieux]

On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 2:20 PM, Kevin Martin  wrote:

> 
>
> Shouldn't there be a way for yum/packagekit to understand the
> interdependencies when kmod packages are installed such that a new
> kernel update is *not* offered if the corresponding kmod package that
> uses it is not available?
>

Something like this, offered by default to nvidia driver users would be
nice. It would have prevented the present mess.

Another thing that would be nice is an howto on disinstalling nvidia drivers
made available on Fedora's or rpmfusion's site. Last time I looked there
were none, if I remember well.

I do understand Fedora can't tell how to install nvidia drivers but it could
tell how to uninstall them.

If I upgrade to Fedora 13, will I be given a choice as to which driver I
want to use?
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Re: Another funny update?

[Marcel Rieux]

On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 12:27 AM, Craig White wrote:

>
> the way it works is that rpmfusion cannot build their kmod's until
> Fedora ships a new kernel. So there is a lag of time between the kernel
> update and the packages from rpmfusion because they need the kernel
> source to build their packages.
>

Usually, at least for teh last few months, both arrived together. But, as
Darr noted, it seems Fedora didn't get everything right this time.
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Re: Another funny update?

[Marcel Rieux]

On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 10:13 AM, Darr  wrote:

> On Monday, 14 June, 2010 @ 23:13 zulu, Marcel Rieux scribed:
>
> > Here's the last update suggestion I received today:
> >
> [snip]
> > kernel  x86_64  2.6.32.14-127.fc12
>
>
> Most of the other replies have focused on RPMFusion...  but
> what's funny to me is the version that went into updates-testing
> just yesterday is kernel-2.6.32.10-92.fc12.x86_64.rpm
>
> See http://mirrors.kernel.org/fedora/updates/testing/12/x86_64/
>
> Huh???
>

Huh, indeed! Then it isn't hard to figure how come rpmfusion doesn't come up
with corresponding kmods.
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Re: Another funny update?

[Marcel Rieux]

On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 7:37 PM, Rahul Sundaram  wrote:

> On 06/15/2010 04:43 AM, Marcel Rieux wrote:
> > =
> >
> > So, the oldest kmod-nvidia is removed with the oldest kernel and it
> > will still be possible to boot with the present kernel. .. but not
> > with the new kernel because the new kmod-nvidia is not installed.
> > Which means newbies will be completely dumbfounded as to why their
> > system suddenly doesn't boot after an update.
>
> Fedora doesn't really target newbies


Google does, Ubuntu does, Mandriva does. Pretty much every distribution
does. But Red Hat doesn't have to? Does Red Hat want to become the next Sun?

Removing a kmod and a kernel doesn't make a system
> unbootable.


It will just make the system unbootable to a GUI with the default kernel,
which will get the newbie completely confused. Never had this problem with
Windows. Understand the topo?

If you prefer to, you can switchover to using akmod


I've had my fair share of problems with akmod and decided to stick with
kmod. Here's what a newbie would have to learn in order to use akmod:

http://fedorasolved.org/Members/zcat/akmods

from "Doing the Work".

Just past the first paragraph, he'll be back to Windows. Akmod is no excuse
for kmod not working. If this excuse comes up every time a kmod is not in
sysn with a new kernel, you might as well scrap kmod and tell new users that
Fedora kernel updates are only possible after RTFM. Final.

or set
> yum to preserve more kernels by default or never remove older kernels at
> all.  Look up /etc/yum.conf for that.
>

That's not the problem. 3 kernel are kept. So you still have 2 kernels that
you can theoritically boot from. Will the newbie figure out that if the
latest kernel doesn't work, the former might?

> Is this done on purpose in order to chase new users away? Is somebody
> working for Ubuntu here?

This sort of rhetoric is unnecessary if you are looking for help.
>

This rhetoric makes sense only if you think that going the Sun way is  not
the way to go for Red Hat. And if you want newbies to join the Red Hat's
ecosystem, telling them to RTFM just won't work. Things are going to have to
work without RTFM.

But does Red Hat want to build an ecosystem to sustain newbies' support?
Where is it headed?  Soon Google will have its tablet out. applications will
work in the browser. You tap this, you tap that and it works. Hardware and
software are going to be devised as one. A chip with its own ID will make
security stronger. (Of course, we all know what this means
confidentiality-wise, but will the newbie care? I doubt it. ) Without
security, the cloud would be just that, a cloud.

They're going to sell music, movies, whatever. Ubuntu plays the same game:
they're going to have their tablet too:
http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2010/06/13/ubuntu_for_tablets/

So, you might think that Fedora/Red Hat will survive staying on idle
simple-user-wise, asking its users to RTFM like ArchLinux does and caring
about Sun's former customers?

I doubt it and I certainly believe that having the kernels and the kmods
appearing in sync would be the lesser step in the good direction.

Excuse me for being a non-programmer and stating the obvious like I've done
so many times, Try to understand it can get frustrating and that, short of
rewriting the whole diatribe, sometimes a knee jerk comes handy.
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Re: Another funny update?

[Marcel Rieux]

On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 7:32 PM, Dale J. Chatham  wrote:

> On 06/14/2010 06:29 PM, Bruno Wolff III wrote:
> > On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 19:13:59 -0400,
> >    Marcel Rieux  wrote:
> >
> > For this issue you are really complaining to the wrong people.
> kmod-nvidia
> > is from their repository. If lack of an updated kmod-nvidia update needs
> > to block a kernel update, it needs to be handled in that repo.
> >
>
> Some might argue that those who might be blamed by the unenlightened
> should do something to keep people from crashing their new systems and
> not knowing why or how to work around it.
>
> While you are correct in what you say, at the end of the day, really
> doesn't matter.  Gonna have a lot of people angry and blaming Fedora.
>

Exactly. It's no use trying to find culprits: it must work.
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Re: Another funny update?

[Marcel Rieux]

On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 7:29 PM, Bruno Wolff III  wrote:

> On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 19:13:59 -0400,
>  Marcel Rieux  wrote:
> >
> > So, the oldest kmod-nvidia is removed with the oldest kernel and it will
> > still be possible to boot with the present kernel. .. but not with the
> new
> > kernel because the new kmod-nvidia is not installed. Which means newbies
> > will be completely dumbfounded as to why their system suddenly doesn't
> boot
> > after an update.
> >
> > Is this done on purpose in order to chase new users away? Is somebody
> > working for Ubuntu here?
>
> For this issue you are really complaining to the wrong people. kmod-nvidia
> is from their repository. If lack of an updated kmod-nvidia update needs
> to block a kernel update, it needs to be handled in that repo.
>

Are you really sure that the maintainers of a repository that doesn't belong
to Fedora could stop a Fedora kernel upgrade?
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Re: Klipper search box doesn't disappear

[Marcel Rieux]

On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 7:34 PM, Rahul Sundaram  wrote:


> Perhaps or perhaps you are seeing problems others have not.  In either
> case, file a bug report with the details would be useful.
>

Thanks to Ed's answer, I could figure this is a possibility. So, I made a
few tests.

1) I rebooted.

I still had to select the first entry before I could paste it. In OOo, I
could now paste, also after reselecting the fisrt entry,  but a new line was
added.

2) So, I shut down the computer and rebooted with the modem (which is
configured as a router, shut down. Everything worked perfectly except that I
couldn't get rid of the search box, as usual. But pasting in gedit or OOo
was OK.

I never had problems pasting in Thunderbird. When I rebooted with the modem
on, it seemed to me that the PC and TX/RX lights flashed for a long time --
maybe 3 seconds -- after logging in.

Since the problem doesn't exist when I cold boot with the modem closed, it
seems the problem is not on my system. IOW, it looks like a hack. If I file
a bug report, I'll probably be the only one with this problem and it won't
be taken into consideration.
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Re: Klipper search box doesn't disappear

[Marcel Rieux]

On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 7:34 PM, Ed Greshko  wrote:

> On 06/15/2010 07:00 AM, Marcel Rieux wrote:
> > More fun with Klipper!
> >
> > Just as it used to do before, most of the time, it's impossible to
> > paste in gedit unless the first entry is reselected.
> >
> > In OOo, either using the middle mouse button or CTRL + V, what appears
> > are a empty spaces or  ^^^  ^
> >
> > Please don't tell me I'm a ranter. I know. I know that no Klipper
> > developer uses OOo and no OOo developer uses Klipper. I'm the only one.
> Even though using klipper, a KDE application, is a bit unusual in Gnome
> I gave it a try
>
> Able to close search box by simply clicking anywhere else on the desktop.
>

Not here. You're really sure that if you select something after you made teh
search it will appear at the top of the list?


> Always able to select and paste any entry in gedit.
> No problems whatsoever pasting into OpenOffice application
>

More on this in my Answer to Rahul.


> All this on a fully updated F13 system.
>

I use fedora 12 fully updated... except the last update.

I hope you realise that, despite nothing works on your system like on mine,
I really appreciate your answer. From there I made other tests.
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Another funny update?

[Marcel Rieux]

Here's the last update suggestion I received today:

==
 PackageArch
Version   RepositorySize
==
Installing:
 kernel x86_64
2.6.32.14-127.fc12updates   21 M
Updating:
 fuse   x86_64
2.8.4-1.fc12  updates   71 k
 fuse-libs  x86_64
2.8.4-1.fc12  updates   74 k
 kernel-firmwarenoarch
2.6.32.14-127.fc12updates  973 k
 kernel-headers x86_64
2.6.32.14-127.fc12updates  754 k
 sane-backends  x86_64
1.0.21-2.fc12 updates  1.0 M
 sane-backends-libs x86_64
1.0.21-2.fc12 updates  2.0 M
 xscreensaver-base  x86_64
1:5.11-4.1.fc12.respin1   updates  406 k
Removing:
 kernel x86_64
2.6.32.10-90.fc12 @updates 103 M
Removing for dependencies:
 kmod-nvidia-2.6.32.10-90.fc12.x86_64   x86_64
1:195.36.15-1.fc12.1  @rpmfusion-nonfree-updates13 M

Transaction Summary
==

So, the oldest kmod-nvidia is removed with the oldest kernel and it will
still be possible to boot with the present kernel. .. but not with the new
kernel because the new kmod-nvidia is not installed. Which means newbies
will be completely dumbfounded as to why their system suddenly doesn't boot
after an update.

Is this done on purpose in order to chase new users away? Is somebody
working for Ubuntu here?
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Re: Klipper search box doesn't disappear

[Marcel Rieux]

More fun with Klipper!

Just as it used to do before, most of the time, it's impossible to paste in
gedit unless the first entry is reselected.

In OOo, either using the middle mouse button or CTRL + V, what appears are a
empty spaces or  ^^^  ^

Please don't tell me I'm a ranter. I know. I know that no Klipper developer
uses OOo and no OOo developer uses Klipper. I'm the only one.
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Klipper search box doesn't disappear

[Marcel Rieux]

I use Klipper in Gnome. When I do a search in Klipper, the search box
doesn't disappear and hides the first entry until the computer is rebooted.
I found no instructions anywhere on how to close it. Is there a default way
to close boxes?

Klipepr's help says:

"You can search through the clipboard history by opening it (click on
Klipper) and typing your query. The results are updated as you type. In case
you're wondering how to use the accelerator keys in the Klipper menu, just
press Alt and the accelerator you want. For example, to clear the clipboard
history when the Klipper menu is open, press Alt+L."

Nothing on how to close the search box.
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PYCURL ERROR 6 and slow tranfer rates

[Marcel Rieux]

New updates today and the PYCURL ERROR 6 comes back again.

It looks like this:

Total download size: 87 M
Is this ok [y/N]: y
Downloading Packages:
http://mirror.pnl.gov/fedora/linux/updates/12/x86_64/kdebase-4.4.3-2.fc12.1.x86_64.rpm:
[Errno 14] PYCURL ERROR 6 - ""
Trying other mirror.
http://mirror.liberty.edu/pub/fedora/linux/updates/12/x86_64/kdebase-4.4.3-2.fc12.1.x86_64.rpm:
[Errno 14] PYCURL ERROR 6 - ""
Trying other mirror.
(1/21):
kdebase-4.4.3-2.fc12.1.x86_64.rpm
| 3.5 MB 00:13
(2/21):
kdebase-libs-4.4.3-2.fc12.1.x86_64.rpm
| 265 kB 00:09
(3/21): kdebase-runtime-4.4.3-1.fc12.1.x86_64 (8%) 56%
[]  25 kB/s | 3.9 MB 02:07 ETA

(...)

(18/21): oxygen-icon-theme-4.4.3-1.fc12.noarc (76%) 13%
[-  ]  417 B/s | 2.9 MB770:33 ETA

And sometimes the transfer rate goes up tp 450kB/s for a few seconds. Then
down to a few hundred bytes again.
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Re: Problem with Akamai's INET6?

[Marcel Rieux]

On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 6:53 AM, Marko Vojinovic  wrote:

> On Friday 07 May 2010 06:06:39 you wrote:
> > > If I were you, I'd complain to the cbc.ca webmaster and tell him to
> fix it.
> >
> > It's going to be an uphill battle:
> > Linux
> >
> >- At this time Linux is not supported.
> >
> > http://www.cbc.ca/video/help.html#T02
> >
> > Which, of course, it totally unacceptable for a state television. I'll
> try
> > nonetheless.
>
> This is not about Linux support, the link is just plain broken. It doesn't
> work under Windows either.
>
> I just tested it in virtual machine, WinXP loads media player in the
> browser
> window, says "connecting", than says "ready", and when I click on play it
> says
> again "connecting" and "ready". It's an obvious loop, the playlist file
> pointing to itself. It's just that under Windows you have no idea what is
> going on, while mplayer actually gives some details... :-)
>
> You should complain to the webmaster and tell him to fix it, even without
> mentioning what OS/browser/player you use. It doesn't work anywhere.
>

I'll wait until Wednesday to see if the problem is corrected. Then, I'll
contact them again.
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Re: This page crashes konqueror ?

[Marcel Rieux]

On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 9:47 AM, Linuxguy123  wrote:

> I'm finding that this page crashes konqueror.
>
> http://jeffhoogland.blogspot.com/2010/05/pandora-radio-on-n900-pypianobar.html
>
> Can anyone confirm this ?
>

No problem with Fedora 12, Konqueror or Firefox.
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Re: Problem with Akamai's INET6?

[Marcel Rieux]

On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 4:19 PM, Marko Vojinovic  wrote:

> On Wednesday 05 May 2010 14:21:06 Marcel Rieux wrote:
> > I try to view this video:
> >
> > http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/lies/video.html
> >
> > and don't succeed.
> >
> > I was able to get an mms URL at Akamai, but here's what happens, even
> using
> > mplayer directly:
> >
> > mplayer mms://
> >
> a1866.v8752c.c8752.g.vm.akamaistream.net/7/1866/8752/0/origin.media.cbc.ca/
> > windows/fifth/media/lies2.wmv
>
> If you try mplayer with -v option (verbose mode), it will eventually say
> (among other things):
>
> Parsing playlist
>

I don't get the same error messages as you:

mplayer -v http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/lies/video.html | grep -i 'parsing
playlist'
mplayer: could not connect to socket
mplayer: No such file or directory
Failed to open LIRC support. You will not be able to use your remote
control.
Couldn't resolve name for AF_INET6: www.cbc.ca

If I were you, I'd complain to the cbc.ca webmaster and tell him to fix it.
>

It's going to be an uphill battle:
Linux

   - At this time Linux is not supported.

http://www.cbc.ca/video/help.html#T02

Which, of course, it totally unacceptable for a state television. I'll try
nonetheless.
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Re: Preupgrade??

[Marcel Rieux]

On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 7:56 AM, Timothy Murphy  wrote:

> Peter Larsen wrote:
>
> > Generally, "users" shouldn't care about how/where things are stored.
> > They use OpenOffice, mail, browsers and applications. It's not the users
> > job to configure the box and do system administration.
>
> I find this view bizarre.
> Most Fedora users _are_ their system administrators.
>

You got this right on the soft spot! This is exactly my problem :) Still,
you know, there's a positive side to this. It's like when you fix your bike:
if anything goes wrong, the ass to kick is never too far.
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Problem with Akamai's INET6?

[Marcel Rieux]

I try to view this video:

http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/lies/video.html

and don't succeed.

I was able to get an mms URL at Akamai, but here's what happens, even using
mplayer directly:

mplayer mms://
a1866.v8752c.c8752.g.vm.akamaistream.net/7/1866/8752/0/origin.media.cbc.ca/windows/fifth/media/lies2.wmv
MPlayer SVN-r29800-4.4.2 (C) 2000-2009 MPlayer Team
mplayer: could not connect to socket
mplayer: No such file or directory
Failed to open LIRC support. You will not be able to use your remote
control.

Playing mms://
a1866.v8752c.c8752.g.vm.akamaistream.net/7/1866/8752/0/origin.media.cbc.ca/windows/fifth/media/lies2.wmv
.
STREAM_ASF, URL: mms://
a1866.v8752c.c8752.g.vm.akamaistream.net/7/1866/8752/0/origin.media.cbc.ca/windows/fifth/media/lies2.wmv
Resolving a1866.v8752c.c8752.g.vm.akamaistream.net for AF_INET6...
Couldn't resolve name for AF_INET6: a1866.v8752c.c8752.g.vm.akamaistream.net
Resolving a1866.v8752c.c8752.g.vm.akamaistream.net for AF_INET...
Connecting to server a1866.v8752c.c8752.g.vm.akamaistream.net[96.6.121.61]:
1755...
Connected
read error:: Operation now in progress
pre-header read failed
Resolving a1866.v8752c.c8752.g.vm.akamaistream.net for AF_INET6...
Couldn't resolve name for AF_INET6: a1866.v8752c.c8752.g.vm.akamaistream.net
Resolving a1866.v8752c.c8752.g.vm.akamaistream.net for AF_INET...
Connecting to server a1866.v8752c.c8752.g.vm.akamaistream.net[96.6.121.55]:
80...
Server returned 404:Not Found
Failed to parse header.
Failed, exiting.
Resolving a1866.v8752c.c8752.g.vm.akamaistream.net for AF_INET6...
Couldn't resolve name for AF_INET6: a1866.v8752c.c8752.g.vm.akamaistream.net
Resolving a1866.v8752c.c8752.g.vm.akamaistream.net for AF_INET...
Connecting to server a1866.v8752c.c8752.g.vm.akamaistream.net[96.6.121.61]:
80...
Cache size set to 320 KBytes


Playing
http://a1866.v8752c.c8752.g.vm.akamaistream.net/7/1866/8752/0/origin.media.cbc.ca/windows/fifth/media/lies2.wmv?MSWMExt=.asf
.
Resolving a1866.v8752c.c8752.g.vm.akamaistream.net for AF_INET6...
Couldn't resolve name for AF_INET6: a1866.v8752c.c8752.g.vm.akamaistream.net
Resolving a1866.v8752c.c8752.g.vm.akamaistream.net for AF_INET...
Connecting to server a1866.v8752c.c8752.g.vm.akamaistream.net[96.6.121.55]:
80...
Cache size set to 320 KBytes



Any help appreciated.
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Re: Preupgrade??

[Marcel Rieux]

On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 10:58 AM, Peter Larsen <
plar...@famlarsen.homelinux.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 2010-05-03 at 22:58 -0400, Marcel Rieux wrote:
> > That's not what I said.  I said I've been using Fedora and
> > RedHat long
> > before things like LVM existed.  I'm more comfortable without
> > them at
> > times, especially after I got burned by a disk failure while
> > using LVM.
> >
> > Oops! Disk failures happen. You had problems doing a restore?
> >
> > Whatever the case may be, it seems to me LVM shouldn't be thrown at
> > newbies for the desktop. I certainly will keep away from it as much as
> > I can.
>
> I could not disagree more. LVM is essential to solve problems like
> resizing issues; backup and generally solve all the problems that static
> partition tables has had since their inception.
>

I'm glad to learn that Beartooth finally found somebody to help him out!


> Generally, "users" shouldn't care about how/where things are stored.
> They use OpenOffice, mail, browsers and applications. It's not the users
> job to configure the box and do system administration.
>

That's certainly the way Mac users think. The problem is when something goes
awry. It sometimes takes a hell of a lot of time before you get out of the
forest that eases things out.


> The problem here seems to be, that Fedora isn't using a Grub version
> that supports LVM. Is there any plans on switching to grub2 on install
> so we can get rid of the /boot partition and help resolve issues like
> upgrade needing more space temporarily.
>

Oops! No help for Beartooth, then? Are you saying that LVM has been pushed
onto unsuspecting users something like 2 or 3 versions too soon? You'll need
somebody more competent than me to comment on this but that's pretty much
the reason I'm not too fond of Fedora's novelties.
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Re: Preupgrade??

[Marcel Rieux]

On Sun, May 2, 2010 at 11:41 PM, Kevin J. Cummings <
cummi...@kjchome.homeip.net> wrote:

> On 05/02/2010 11:23 PM, Marcel Rieux wrote:
> > I have selected my disk partitioning for a long time and  when new
> > wizardry comes along, I always wonder how much help it's going to be. In
> > most cases, for a desktop, here, I'd say "none".
> >
> > > I believe there should be a page on FedoraProject to explain how
> > to get
> > > rid of that ext3 /boot partition. Of course, for most people, I
> > suppose
> > > it won't be much of an issue for most users but, when a 500 MB boot
> > > partition is now suggested for /boot -- which 25 times my first
> > HD! --,
> > > it certainly doesn't look very clean.
> >
> > Knowledge of this sort is a dangerous weapon.  It is known by those
> who
> > understand it and are willing to possibly shoot themselves in the
> foot
> > because they know what they are doing.  When you get to that stage,
> you
> > will understand.
> >
> >
> > There are some solutions here:
> >
> >
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_use_PreUpgrade#Not_enough_space_in_.2Fboot
> >
> > but you think they're unsafe?
>
> That's not what I said.  I said I've been using Fedora and RedHat long
> before things like LVM existed.  I'm more comfortable without them at
> times, especially after I got burned by a disk failure while using LVM.
>

Oops! Disk failures happen. You had problems doing a restore?

Whatever the case may be, it seems to me LVM shouldn't be thrown at newbies
for the desktop. I certainly will keep away from it as much as I can.


> You decide what you are willing to live with
>

I, as most desktop users, am willing to live with as little problems as
possible. :) I don't believe LVM is part of this.
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Re: Preupgrade??

[Marcel Rieux]

On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 1:40 PM, Hugh Caley  wrote:

>  LVM can be very handy for desktops.  If you run out of space on / (or any
> other mount that uses LVM) you can attach another disk, add it to LVM, and
> expand the filesystem with resize2fs.  Easy and quick.
>

Before I bought my present computer about 1 year ago,  I had 2 8GB drives
given by a friend and... I used only one. All / was on a 4GB partition and I
didn't run out of space. Now, that I have a 19GB root partition on a 680 GB
drive -- nowadays you get 1TB for less than $100! -- , I install this and
that on every whim and

/dev/sdaX  19G  7.7G   11G  43% /

So, I'd rather not bother with fancy stuff like LVM.
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Re: Preupgrade??

[Marcel Rieux]

On Sat, May 1, 2010 at 3:01 AM, Kevin J. Cummings <
cummi...@kjchome.homeip.net> wrote:

>
> On 05/01/2010 01:08 AM, Marcel Rieux wrote:
>
> You can always choose to not use LVM when you install Fedora, but you
> have to be comfortable with selecting the advanced disk partitioning and
> using the tools provided.  Not everyone is.


I have selected my disk partitioning for a long time and  when new wizardry
comes along, I always wonder how much help it's going to be. In most cases,
for a desktop, here, I'd say "none".

> I believe there should be a page on FedoraProject to explain how to get
> > rid of that ext3 /boot partition. Of course, for most people, I suppose
> > it won't be much of an issue for most users but, when a 500 MB boot
> > partition is now suggested for /boot -- which 25 times my first HD! --,
> > it certainly doesn't look very clean.
>
> Knowledge of this sort is a dangerous weapon.  It is known by those who
> understand it and are willing to possibly shoot themselves in the foot
> because they know what they are doing.  When you get to that stage, you
> will understand.
>

There are some solutions here:

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_use_PreUpgrade#Not_enough_space_in_.2Fboot

but you think they're unsafe?
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