Re: Improving the list climate [was Re: Fwd: Fedora Weekly News 228]
2010/6/3 Máirín Duffy : > On Thu, 2010-06-03 at 21:01 -0700, Alan Evans wrote: >> Not all of the feedback from this list was unconstructive. Not all of >> the responses were abusive or confrontational. But after reviewing the >> thread in question, I have to say that *many* of your responses were >> confrontational and many were, frankly, condescending. It didn't seem >> to matter whether the person you were replying to was trying to be >> constructive or snarky; your responses seemed designed to pour more >> fuel on the fire almost every time. > > This is an unfair personal attack, and is not constructive especially > given the topic of the thread. Please let's talk about making things > better, and stop pointing fingers and making accusations. > I have to agree with Alan here. Speaking of the intelligence of people who use torrents should also know they have to google for it does not speak well for you at all. Also pointing out the actions of a person is not a personal attack. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Fwd: Fedora Weekly News 228
On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 5:27 PM, g wrote: > Craig White wrote: > > >> George - I think that you are very offensive towards people who >> volunteer their time. It's easy to understand why Fedora contributors >> don't actually want to participate on the user lists and get abused by >> unappreciative, sarcastic and combative users. > > craig, > > for someone who tends to make offensive remarks, no association to above, > i accept your judgment of what may appear, in your opinion, as meant to > be offensive. > > but do know this, neither my intent, nor desire, was meant to be offending. > > i do appreciate what fedora contributors do, both programmers and designers > of web pages. just as i appreciate contributors to this list. > > i even complimented mairin on her abilities. her reply contained no > recognition of such, only irateness to my using 'ladies home journal' > strictly as a reference to where i felt her design would better fit. > > if, in your opinion, what i wrote is 'unappreciative, sarcastic and combative' > towards any of contributers, then so be it, your opinion. > > in other thread, i asked same question, where was notice of changing of web > page http://fedoraproject.org/get-fedora, as i did in this thread. > > thru all of this, an answer to my question was evaded with only replies of > pages that had nothing to do with my question. > > > now, if you wish to bat this back and forth, go ahead. > > but do be aware that my intent was not as you seem to be in thinking. > I think the fact that you do not put your full name in the from line in your posts shows at the very least you subconsciously do not want your words attributed back to you. Your posts are offensive, and your compliments are not sincere which negates any positive they may have otherwise had. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Why are 0 karma updates still being released?
Here is a sampling of the recent updates that have been pushed to stable. There are more, I didn't look at every update. Released straight to stable: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/gdb-7.0.1-47.fc12 https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/ClanLib-2.1.1-1.fc12 https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/fuse-convmvfs-0.2.5-1.fc12 Pushed to testing and then to stable a few days later with zero karma. https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/bti-026-1.fc12 https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/vidalia-0.2.9-1.fc12 https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/EekBoek-2.00.02-1.fc12 https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/fsarchiver-0.6.10-1.fc12 Why are we still pushing to stable or submitting directly to stable without people other than the packager testing it? -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: radeon to nvidia to radeon produces pain
On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 6:45 AM, Michael Hennebry wrote: > On Mon, 31 May 2010, Suvayu Ali wrote: > >> On Monday 31 May 2010 08:48 PM, Michael Hennebry wrote: >>> A friend suggested that I need a radeonhd driver. >>> yum provides '*radeonhd*' >>> lists at least two. >>> Do I need a radeonhd driver, and, if so, >>> how do I tell which one will work? >>> >> radeonhd has been abandoned and is not being maintained any more. The >> radeon stack is the prescribed open source driver for all ATI cards now. > > The radeon stack (why is it called a stack?) People might call it a stack because there are multiple components (xorg, mesa, etc.) > seems not to like my Radeon HD 3650. > To get it to work at all, I had to install FC11 again. > Though the card is still being overclocked, all I get is vesa. > > Did any version of radeonhd ever work for Radeon HD 3650? > If so, how do I install it? > The radeonhd driver is unmaintained. It has been removed from later versions of fedora. try booting with "nomodeset" in the kernel command line (hint: press "e" while in the grub boot menu) I recommend updating to a newer version of fedora. It will have a newer version of the radeon driver. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: What is "nomodeset" SUPPOSED to do?
On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 6:30 PM, Tom Horsley wrote: > On Mon, 31 May 2010 20:04:53 -0500 > Steven P. Ulrick wrote: > >> What is "nomodeset" SUPPOSED to do? > > The newest kernels have (God knows why) moved the video > mode setting into the kernel (the only explanation I've > ever seen for why this is a good idea is that the monitor > goes "click" less often that way). So all the programming > of the hardware specific clock rates and registers on the > video card happen in the kernel during initial boot http://lwn.net/Articles/268378/ http://lwn.net/Articles/316274/ For a better understanding, you'll want to read both articles above. -- (And consider paying for a subscription to LWN. It is one of the best sources of news in the Linux community.) -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Abrt doesn't capture traces for segfault type 6
On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 1:46 AM, Frank Murphy wrote: > On 01/06/10 09:38, Mike Fedyk wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I looked for a component in bugzilla for abrt, and it isn't listed so >> I'd like to know where I should file this bug report. >> > > http://tinyurl.com/264s8hn (same link as below) > > > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/enter_bug.cgi?product=Fedora&version=13&component=abrt > Thanks, looks like I didn't notice the button to update the list of components... :-/ Bug filed: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=598391 -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Abrt doesn't capture traces for segfault type 6
Hi, I looked for a component in bugzilla for abrt, and it isn't listed so I'd like to know where I should file this bug report. > May 27 13:42:16 dt01 kernel: epiphany[9989]: segfault at f7f0 ip > 00391f474b8c sp 7fffdf2c4d90 error 4 in > libc-2.11.1.so[391f40+16f000] > May 27 13:42:18 dt01 abrt[9990]: saved core dump of pid 9989 > (/usr/bin/epiphany) to /var/cache/abrt/ccpp-1274992936-9989.new/coredump > (54530048 bytes) Notice the "error 4" part and that abrt captures a backtrace for it. > May 28 01:08:43 dt01 kernel: tecnoballz[12747]: segfault at 10132ddf0 ip > 0042f5e0 sp 7fffe99b21f0 error 6 in tecnoballz[40+68000] Notice the "error 6" part and that abrt does not capture a backtrace for it. http://lkml.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0512.1/2406.html The link above says that the error codes are processor dependent. Maybe there is something generic that can determine whether to attempt processing a backtrace. Is this a kernel issue, abrt issue or both? Where should I file the bug report? -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Regarding Get Fedora page
2010/5/31 Máirín Duffy : > On Sun, 2010-05-30 at 11:30 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: >> I suspect there's a (possibly subconscious) view among many of us that >> website design means "making the website look pretty" > > I certainly hope you don't mean to imply that is the position of the > folks who worked on the page, because it most certainly is not and never > has been. Seriously. > I see nothing in Patrick's wording that implies that he is speaking for the designers. It looks like he is speaking for users and attempting to explain why people may have ignored the new web site design announcement when it went out. I think most people don't think about design until it gets in their way. > Let's drop this thread, okay folks? It's completely unproductive. > It could have been more productive if you weren't so defensive. In this example, Patrick's comment was quite benign, but you posted an inflammatory reply. I post this not to stir up any animosity, but to give a specific example where the original poster was quite polite and you replied with the wrong assumptions of intent. Everyone makes mistakes, though you make fewer mistakes when you learn from the past. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Regarding Get Fedora page
On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 4:22 PM, David Boles wrote: > On 5/28/2010 4:32 PM, Bill Crawford wrote: >> On 28 May 2010 18:40, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: >>> On Fri, 2010-05-28 at 17:48 +0100, Bill Crawford wrote: >>> >>> Well, we aren't talking about desktop vs netbook vs server but I guess >>> it's immaterial. >> >> Uh, good point. Sorry. More like Ubuntu vs Kubuntu etc. Mm. Please >> excuse my momentary burst of idiocy ... > > > SHUT UP! > > None of you was here when this was talked about? Since October? And now > you want to bitch becasue the site does NOT fit YOUR needs. REALLY! > > All of you (three? four? of you are unhappy and have attacked and > insulted the person that tried really hard to provide this site. > > SHUT UP! > > All of you have spent more effort and time bitching about this than you > did to help this person with this. > > Where were you four people the *MONTHS* that this was debated? And *NOW* > you want to bitch? > > You are joking? The Earth obits the Sun. Linux orbits and survives on > the work of the many. not you few. Those that bitch. > Let's see here. There are a *lot* of different communities around each component that can affect you. A short list of what a browser depends upon: w3c, gecko/webkit, qt/gtk, xlib/xcb, xorg, gcc, glibc, linux kernel. Are you subscribed to all of those lists and monitor them? One of them broke your browser. You say "We put out notices *months ago* and now you're complaining?" Well so can any of the communities mentioned above. At least by what you are stating here. So please count to 10, or maybe 20 and realize that there are many circles of people outside and within fedora that don't watch all other parts of the whole. It just wouldn't scale that way. My recommendation is after the designer SIG has hashed it over, attempt getting feedback from the intended audience, and that audience is the users list and then the general public. === Off topic: My personal view is that torrents should be the first option presented, and direct downloads from http or ftp should be moved to a secondary page. === Off topic2: IMO, introducing another operating system at the same time as introducing open source applications is a mistake. People are already changing habits enough by using a new app, adding another set of possible complications leads to the high probability that the app will get a negative association if something goes wrong. For this reason I've been watching for a OSS distro based on MS Windows that includes package management, updates, etc. Its sole purpose would be to build a critical mass of OSS app usage and findability (if a user knows about firefox, how are they going to know about inkscape, gimp and OOo?) so that people will easily be able to install the apps and then realize that every app they use is OSS, why keep around Windows? Let's face it, right now keeping even OSS 10 apps, working together, updated and integrated is a major task in of itself right now on windows. Disclaimer: I have no love for windows, but making life easier for people just starting with the apps can only grow the pool of OSS users and developers. === Off topic3: torrent download should be integrated into the update system (yum) with a fallback for when torrents fail -- if torrents are blocked by corporate firewalls for instance. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
A better name for spins... (was: Regarding Get Fedora page)
On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 8:26 PM, Tim wrote: > Ed Greshko >>> I don't believe "Activities" has much meaning either... > > Mike Fedyk: >> I agree. I think the word "edition" is better. Fedora KE (KDE >> Edition) Fedora GE (Gnome Edition) etc... > > Activities doesn't mean anything about discs to me, either. It sounds > more like where you'd find out about user group meetings. If you were > going to name differently oriented disc releases, there's three names > that spring to mind: discs, releases, versions, and editions. > > e.g. Fedora Gnome disc > Fedora Gnome release > Fedora Gnome edition In the USA, spin has a negative connotation. See "spin doctor". Is the name "spin" in fedora open to be changed? Hopefully a word can be chosen that doesn't have a pejorative use in some area... -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Regarding Get Fedora page
On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 5:03 PM, Ed Greshko wrote: > On 05/28/2010 07:46 AM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: >> On 05/28/2010 05:12 AM, Ed Greshko wrote: >> >>> "Activities" doesn't mean much to me either. >>> >> The design isn't based on a single user, especially not skewed towards >> technical users. It is based on a survey that suggests that activities >> are better leading term than spins for new users. >> >> >> > IMHO, you trim too much and in doing so ignore the underlying question. > > But, what I should have said was > > I don't believe "Activities" has much meaning either... I agree. I think the word "edition" is better. Fedora KE (KDE Edition) Fedora GE (Gnome Edition) etc... -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
