Re: 2 part question
On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 08:03:28PM +0530, Sudhir Khanger wrote: > ship a default upgrade mechanism. I started using Fedora 20 and I have > done clean installs for both F21 and F22. Among other reasons whenever > I have searched about how to upgrade Fedora I often end up with > outdated wiki or blog written for F16. In a nutshell, you have too > much information which leads to unnecessary confusion. This is completely incorrect. Upgrade instructions have lived on the same page for about 7 years now! And this is only the time since Fedora wiki moved from MoinMoin to Mediawiki. Just look at the history of this page: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Upgrading I have to admit the search on the wiki is kinda broken, because of all the heavy subpage use, but then with modern search engines, that is not really a problem. -- Suvayu Open source is the future. It sets us free. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: 2 part question
On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 8:22 PM, Matthew Miller wrote: > When it's time to upgrade, you want to make sure to have the latest > version anyway. Why ship it when it, by definition, won't be used for > the life of that installation? People often complain that Fedora is not a user friendly distro. I disagree but it certainly makes you jump hoops in order get something done. This is a classic example of that. When other distributions and operating system offer one-click graphical upgrade tool we don't even ship a default upgrade mechanism. I started using Fedora 20 and I have done clean installs for both F21 and F22. Among other reasons whenever I have searched about how to upgrade Fedora I often end up with outdated wiki or blog written for F16. In a nutshell, you have too much information which leads to unnecessary confusion. Are dnf or fedup not capable of ensuring that the upgrade tool is in fact the latest version of itself? Consider same scenario on Android or iOS 1. Search how to upgrade the system. 2. Download apk or install an app from Play Store. 3. Open the app and check if upgrade is available. 4. Upgrade. Or 1. System asks you to upgrade when an upgrade is available. Which one would you prefer? -- Regards, Sudhir Khanger, sudhirkhanger.com, github.com/donniezazen, 5577 8CDB A059 085D 1D60 807F 8C00 45D9 F5EF C394. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: 2 part question
Allegedly, on or about 28 May 2015, Kevin Cummings sent: > What's the benefit of *any* update? Whenever they happen, the > software gets updated, so that when it gets used, the latest copy is > used. It may be an essential step to install any new software. Say, for instance, you want to install some new software that does something that you want to do, but you previously had nothing to do the job. More than likely, that software was built expecting, and relying on, new versions of other software that you already have installed. -- [tim@localhost ~]$ uname -rsvp Linux 3.9.10-100.fc17.x86_64 #1 SMP Sun Jul 14 01:31:27 UTC 2013 x86_64 All mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted, there is no point trying to privately email me, I will only read messages posted to the public lists. George Orwell's '1984' was supposed to be a warning against tyranny, not a set of instructions for supposedly democratic governments. ZNQR LBH YBBX -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: 2 part question
On 05/28/2015 01:25 PM, Matthew Miller wrote: > On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 11:39:09AM -0400, Kevin Cummings wrote: >> Seems like silly reasoning to me. Why not just install it, so that it >> gets updated during the normal lifetime of that release, so that when it >> comes time to upgrade to the next release, it is already there and updated? > > What's the benefit of (potentially) all of those updates? What's the benefit of *any* update? Whenever they happen, the software gets updated, so that when it gets used, the latest copy is used. Whether or not the update is a security update, or a functionality update, the Fedora mindset is to update your software regularly from the updates channel. If/when a new fedup becomes available, it will be installed on the user's machine. > Apparently this is, however, a moot point, as Will Woods, the fedup > developer, just announced that it's going away. :) And what will be the approved replacement? fedora-upgrade? The same should apply to that. Whatever the approved upgrade utility is, it should already be installed on everyones machine (at least at the time of initial installation), so that it is available (and up-to-date) when the user needs to use it. You can argue that not every user will use it. I can understand that argument, but it doesn't hurt them to have it installed, and it helps those of us who will want to use it. It should be a part of the base system. -- Kevin J. Cummings kjch...@verizon.net cummi...@kjchome.homeip.net cummi...@kjc386.framingham.ma.us Registered Linux User #1232 (http://www.linuxcounter.net/) -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: 2 part question
On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 11:39:09AM -0400, Kevin Cummings wrote: > Seems like silly reasoning to me. Why not just install it, so that it > gets updated during the normal lifetime of that release, so that when it > comes time to upgrade to the next release, it is already there and updated? What's the benefit of (potentially) all of those updates? Apparently this is, however, a moot point, as Will Woods, the fedup developer, just announced that it's going away. :) -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: 2 part question
On Thu, 2015-05-28 at 11:39 -0400, Kevin Cummings wrote: > On 05/28/2015 10:52 AM, Matthew Miller wrote: > > On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 02:20:25PM +0530, Sudhir Khanger wrote: > > > On Tue, May 26, 2015 at 11:06 AM, bitlord > > > wrote: > > > > fedup [1] which is officially supported, > > > Why isn't fedup shipped by default in all Fedora installs? > > > > When it's time to upgrade, you want to make sure to have the latest > > version anyway. Why ship it when it, by definition, won't be used > > for > > the life of that installation? > > OK, let me get this straight. You don't originally get it. When it > comes time to use it, its not there. The user must now install it. > The > user then uses it to upgrade to the next release. Now, it is there. > It > gets updated during the course of the use of the next release. Now, > when it is time to go to the *next* new release, it is there and > already > updated from any/all updates performed just prior to the 2nd upgrade. > > Seems like silly reasoning to me. Why not just install it, so that > it > gets updated during the normal lifetime of that release, so that when > it > comes time to upgrade to the next release, it is already there and > updated? Perhaps because (IIRC) in the past people have been told to get the latest fedup from updates-testing before upgrading their system, something that not everyone does for their regular updates. Shipping it by default should never preclude getting the latest one since not everyone does regular updates anyway. poc -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: 2 part question
On 05/28/2015 10:52 AM, Matthew Miller wrote: > On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 02:20:25PM +0530, Sudhir Khanger wrote: >> On Tue, May 26, 2015 at 11:06 AM, bitlord wrote: >>> fedup [1] which is officially supported, >> Why isn't fedup shipped by default in all Fedora installs? > > When it's time to upgrade, you want to make sure to have the latest > version anyway. Why ship it when it, by definition, won't be used for > the life of that installation? OK, let me get this straight. You don't originally get it. When it comes time to use it, its not there. The user must now install it. The user then uses it to upgrade to the next release. Now, it is there. It gets updated during the course of the use of the next release. Now, when it is time to go to the *next* new release, it is there and already updated from any/all updates performed just prior to the 2nd upgrade. Seems like silly reasoning to me. Why not just install it, so that it gets updated during the normal lifetime of that release, so that when it comes time to upgrade to the next release, it is already there and updated? -- Kevin J. Cummings kjch...@verizon.net cummi...@kjchome.homeip.net cummi...@kjc386.framingham.ma.us Registered Linux User #1232 (http://www.linuxcounter.net/) -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: 2 part question
On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 02:20:25PM +0530, Sudhir Khanger wrote: > On Tue, May 26, 2015 at 11:06 AM, bitlord wrote: > > fedup [1] which is officially supported, > Why isn't fedup shipped by default in all Fedora installs? When it's time to upgrade, you want to make sure to have the latest version anyway. Why ship it when it, by definition, won't be used for the life of that installation? -- Matthew Miller Fedora Project Leader -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: 2 part question
On Tue, May 26, 2015 at 11:06 AM, bitlord wrote: > fedup [1] which is officially supported, Why isn't fedup shipped by default in all Fedora installs? -- Regards, Sudhir Khanger, sudhirkhanger.com, github.com/donniezazen, 5577 8CDB A059 085D 1D60 807F 8C00 45D9 F5EF C394. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: 2 part question
On 05/25/2015 11:52 PM, William Biggs wrote: > I have a 2 part question . 1st I would like to know how to back up f21 > to upgrade to f22 ? the 2nd question is how do I do and upgrade to f22 > gnome ver from f21 ? > I just did that last week using fedup.. # fedup --network 22 I always have a cron backup for "/" and /home, so that isn't an issue. all of your settings for your apps are under your home directory, some in "." files, like .thunderbird /etc also has config files for apt, yum, dnf. I was having an issue with f21, my keyboard & mouse were going dead, non-responsive. the upgrade to f22 seems to have made that issue go away, so I am happy. F22 also has the 4.0 kernel.. over 2,000 RPMs got updated, so I hope you have a good steady internet connection... and when you reboot, it has also modified grub and continues the upgrade process AFTER the reboot. -- Paul Cartwright Registered Linux User #367800 and new counter #561587 -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: 2 part question
Allegedly, on or about 26 May 2015, William Biggs sent: > I want to back up the the conf files and the home folder... If the config files you want to back up pertain to personal settings (your browser, your screen mode, screen background, things you've set for your desktop and your login, et cetera), those settings are all stored in your homespace. If you mean system reconfiguration, those are in the /etc directory. -- [tim@localhost ~]$ uname -rsvp Linux 3.9.10-100.fc17.x86_64 #1 SMP Sun Jul 14 01:31:27 UTC 2013 x86_64 All mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted, there is no point trying to privately email me, I will only read messages posted to the public lists. George Orwell's '1984' was supposed to be a warning against tyranny, not a set of instructions for supposedly democratic governments. ZNQR LBH YBBX -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: 2 part question
what I want to back up the the conf files and the home folder so when I reload if I have to f22 all the software I installed will be install auto and all my setting are there if I can do it if not that fine I just back home folder On Tue, 2015-05-26 at 07:36 +0200, bitlord wrote: > On Mon, 25 May 2015 23:52:47 -0400 > William Biggs wrote: > > > I have a 2 part question . 1st I would like to know how to back up f21 > > to upgrade to f22 ? the 2nd question is how do I do and upgrade to f22 > > gnome ver from f21 ? > > > > For backup it depends what you want, some people only care about data, > so you backup /home/, and possibly config files you changed /etc/ ..., > also there are other ways, making complete disk image, or archiving > complete installation while taking care that permissions are > preserved ... > > For upgrade [0], you can use few methods > fedup [1] which is officially supported, > or yum/dnf which is not (but also works ok (at least for me, that is > only method I used for upgrading)) > > > > [0] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Upgrading > [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedUp > [2] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Upgrading_Fedora_using_yum -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: 2 part question
On Mon, 25 May 2015 23:52:47 -0400 William Biggs wrote: > I have a 2 part question . 1st I would like to know how to back up f21 > to upgrade to f22 ? the 2nd question is how do I do and upgrade to f22 > gnome ver from f21 ? > For backup it depends what you want, some people only care about data, so you backup /home/, and possibly config files you changed /etc/ ..., also there are other ways, making complete disk image, or archiving complete installation while taking care that permissions are preserved ... For upgrade [0], you can use few methods fedup [1] which is officially supported, or yum/dnf which is not (but also works ok (at least for me, that is only method I used for upgrading)) [0] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Upgrading [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedUp [2] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Upgrading_Fedora_using_yum -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
2 part question
I have a 2 part question . 1st I would like to know how to back up f21 to upgrade to f22 ? the 2nd question is how do I do and upgrade to f22 gnome ver from f21 ? -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
