Re: How much cache does keepcache keeps?

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Wed, 2015-11-18 at 17:12 +1030, Tim wrote:
> Allegedly, on or about 17 November 2015, Patrick O'Callaghan sent:
> >    boolean
> > 
> > This is a data type with only two possible values.
> > One of following options can be used: 1, 0, True,
> > False, yes, no 
> 
> Ha!  I count six.

Well spotted. Certainly the man page could be better expressed.

poc
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Re: How much cache does keepcache keeps?

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Tue, 2015-11-17 at 01:28 -0600, Porfirio Andres Paiz Carrasco wrote:
> I don't know which effects has keepcache=1, I don't use this since
> last time I used yum.

From dnf.conf(5):

       boolean

            This is a data type with only two possible values.
One of following options can be used: 1, 0, True, False,
yes, no

poc

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Re: How much cache does keepcache keeps?

[Tim]

Allegedly, on or about 17 November 2015, Patrick O'Callaghan sent:
>boolean
> 
> This is a data type with only two possible values.
> One of following options can be used: 1, 0, True,
> False, yes, no 

Ha!  I count six.

-- 
[tim@localhost ~]$ uname -rsvp
Linux 3.9.10-100.fc17.x86_64 #1 SMP Sun Jul 14 01:31:27 UTC 2013 x86_64

All mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted, there is no point
trying to privately email me, I will only read messages posted to the
public lists.

I don't think it's pure coincidence that "officialdom" sounds the same
as "official dumb."



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How much cache does keepcache keeps?

[Sudhir Khanger]

Hi,

I learned it the hard way that dnf undo/rollback will fail if packages to 
rollback to are missing. DNF devs don't think it is their problem that packages 
go missing. Even keepcache is set to false so that the chances of losing 
packages go high. I don't follow the logic that you write a feature but it's 
requirements are left to be fulfilled by fate of luck.


 keepcache
 Keeps downloaded packages in the cache when set to True.


How much cache is kept? Is there a size limit? Is there a number of packages 
limit? Is there a number-of-versions-of-a-package limit?


 Even if it is set to False and packages have not been installed they will 
still persist until next successful transaction. The default is False.


Does that mean if I upgrade to pkg-1.0 to pkg-2.0 to pkg-3.0, pkg-1.0 is kept 
when it is upgraded to pkg-2.0 and when pkg-2.0 is upgraded to pkg-3.0 it 
deletes pkg-1.0 and keeps pkg-2.0 in cache? Basically the last version is kept 
and all previous are deleted. How is this changed when a user sets keepcache to 
1?


It probably seems it is best to setup dnf-local-plugin which keeps all the 
packages ever installed on my system.

Regards,
Sudhir Khanger,
sudhirkhanger.com.



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Re: How much cache does keepcache keeps?

[Porfirio Andres Paiz Carrasco]

2015-11-16 22:28 GMT-06:00 Sudhir Khanger :
> Hi,
>
> I learned it the hard way that dnf undo/rollback will fail if packages to
> rollback to are missing. DNF devs don't think it is their problem that
> packages go missing. Even keepcache is set to false so that the chances of
> losing packages go high. I don't follow the logic that you write a feature
> but it's requirements are left to be fulfilled by fate of luck.
>
In the memorables yum days, yum was able to manage the installation
and upgrades from local packages and local repos build from
/var/cache/yum cached packages.

I read somewhere, that this feature is set false to prevent normal
users cache from growing up out of control (space).

>> keepcache
>> Keeps downloaded packages in the cache when set to True.
>
Yeaps, after adding this line to /etc/dnf/dnf.conf:
keepcache=true

> How much cache is kept? Is there a size limit? Is there a number of packages
> limit? Is there a number-of-versions-of-a-package limit?
>
There is not a unique answer to this question, since the amount of
data you can download through a Fedora cycle is determined by the
amount of times that a package receive an update.

If from the very start, after installing from a live media install if
you set it true, maybe at the end of a Fedora cycle you may end with
some gigas stored in your /var/cache/dnf, I still conserve my fedora
17 cache and is about 4 GB even when I reinstalled it because of
unconformity with Fedora 18.

So the unique limit you have is delimited by the space you have to
store data on your /var/cache/dnf, many people recommends having /var/
in a dedicated partition, even on a dedicated disk. The are not limit
on the size apart from the size of the disk/partition, there are not
limit on the number of packages nor it's numbers of versions.

>> Even if it is set to False and packages have not been installed they will
>> still persist until next successful transaction. The default is False.
>
They persist until the transaction and installation/upgrading process ends.

> Does that mean if I upgrade to pkg-1.0 to pkg-2.0 to pkg-3.0, pkg-1.0 is
> kept when it is upgraded to pkg-2.0 and when pkg-2.0 is upgraded to pkg-3.0
> it deletes pkg-1.0 and keeps pkg-2.0 in cache? Basically the last version is
> kept and all previous are deleted. How is this changed when a user sets
> keepcache to 1?
>
Nop, on the /var/cache/dnf/ is kept every all of package you download
as a result of installing it or dnf downloading it as an update.

> It probably seems it is best to setup dnf-local-plugin which keeps all the
> packages ever installed on my system.
>
You may keep all of the installed package un /var/cache, but not
having many diferent version installed at the same time.

> Regards,
> Sudhir Khanger,
> sudhirkhanger.com.
>
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Re: How much cache does keepcache keeps?

[Ralf Corsepius]

On 11/17/2015 05:28 AM, Sudhir Khanger wrote:

Hi,

I learned it the hard way that dnf undo/rollback will fail if packages
to rollback to are missing.


I would recommend not to waste time on rollbacks, because a package 
based rollback will only work when a package's installation is 
non-stateful. This applies to many "trivial packages", but does not 
apply in general.


Ralf


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Re: How much cache does keepcache keeps?

[Sudhir Khanger]

On Monday 16 Nov 2015 11:23:30 PM Porfirio Andres Paiz Carrasco wrote:
> So the unique limit you have is delimited by the space you have to
> store data on your /var/cache/dnf, many people recommends having /var/
> in a dedicated partition, even on a dedicated disk. The are not limit
> on the size apart from the size of the disk/partition, there are not
> limit on the number of packages nor it's numbers of versions.
> 

Do you mean that keepcache=1 will keep all versions of all packages, even from 
3rd party repos and manually installed rpms, in cache '/var/cache/dnf' forever 
as long as storage permits it?

That sounds exactly like python-dnf-plugins-extras-local. What is the 
difference between keepcache=1 and the local plugin.

Can the cache location be saved in any other location like home folder which 
as a lot more space than / folder which in my case is only 20 GiB?

> > It probably seems it is best to setup dnf-local-plugin which keeps all the
> > packages ever installed on my system.
> 
> You may keep all of the installed package un /var/cache, but not
> having many diferent version installed at the same time.
> 

I am not very clear on what you are trying to say. dnf-plugins-extras-local 
will create a local repo, at a location of your choice, and keep all packages 
including all versions ever installed/updated on your system.

-- 
Regards,
Sudhir Khanger,
sudhirkhanger.com.

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Re: How much cache does keepcache keeps?

[Porfirio Andres Paiz Carrasco]

2015-11-16 23:53 GMT-06:00 Sudhir Khanger :
> On Monday 16 Nov 2015 11:23:30 PM Porfirio Andres Paiz Carrasco wrote:
>> So the unique limit you have is delimited by the space you have to
>> store data on your /var/cache/dnf, many people recommends having /var/
>> in a dedicated partition, even on a dedicated disk. The are not limit
>> on the size apart from the size of the disk/partition, there are not
>> limit on the number of packages nor it's numbers of versions.
>>
>
> Do you mean that keepcache=1 will keep all versions of all packages, even from
> 3rd party repos and manually installed rpms, in cache '/var/cache/dnf' forever
> as long as storage permits it?
>
> That sounds exactly like python-dnf-plugins-extras-local. What is the
> difference between keepcache=1 and the local plugin.
>
> Can the cache location be saved in any other location like home folder which
> as a lot more space than / folder which in my case is only 20 GiB?
>
>> > It probably seems it is best to setup dnf-local-plugin which keeps all the
>> > packages ever installed on my system.
>>
>> You may keep all of the installed package un /var/cache, but not
>> having many diferent version installed at the same time.
>>
>
> I am not very clear on what you are trying to say. dnf-plugins-extras-local
> will create a local repo, at a location of your choice, and keep all packages
> including all versions ever installed/updated on your system.
>
This is how I created local repos on a usb with the cache in the
memorables yum days. Slides are in spanish:
https://yn1v.fedorapeople.org/Slides/repos_en_usb.pdf

This is a video tutorial based on the slides:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnrvXbFxJfY

I have not tried to create a local repo using dnf, I don't know how
dnf will handle this task or if dnf is able to handle it, I will test
it and share the news in this thread.

> --
> Regards,
> Sudhir Khanger,
> sudhirkhanger.com.
>
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Re: How much cache does keepcache keeps?

[Porfirio Andres Paiz Carrasco]

2015-11-16 23:53 GMT-06:00 Sudhir Khanger :
> On Monday 16 Nov 2015 11:23:30 PM Porfirio Andres Paiz Carrasco wrote:
>> So the unique limit you have is delimited by the space you have to
>> store data on your /var/cache/dnf, many people recommends having /var/
>> in a dedicated partition, even on a dedicated disk. The are not limit
>> on the size apart from the size of the disk/partition, there are not
>> limit on the number of packages nor it's numbers of versions.
>>
>
> Do you mean that keepcache=1 will keep all versions of all packages, even from
> 3rd party repos and manually installed rpms, in cache '/var/cache/dnf' forever
> as long as storage permits it?
>
Yes, even from 3rd party repos like frpm-fusion and google-chrome
cache. The correct line is:
keepcache=true

I don't know which effects has keepcache=1, I don't use this since
last time I used yum.

Yes as long a storage permits it or as long you want to keep it, a
"dnf clean all" will delete all of the packages stored on the cache.

> That sounds exactly like python-dnf-plugins-extras-local. What is the
> difference between keepcache=1 and the local plugin.
>
I don't know, this is the first time that I hear of
python-dnf-extras-local, not sure what it does or for what is intended
for.

> Can the cache location be saved in any other location like home folder which
> as a lot more space than / folder which in my case is only 20 GiB?
>
In yum days... yes, now days... yes, but I don't know if it is
possible to create a local repo, in a usb for example, starting from
these files.

>> > It probably seems it is best to setup dnf-local-plugin which keeps all the
>> > packages ever installed on my system.
>>
>> You may keep all of the installed package un /var/cache, but not
>> having many diferent version installed at the same time.
>>
>
> I am not very clear on what you are trying to say. dnf-plugins-extras-local
> will create a local repo, at a location of your choice, and keep all packages
> including all versions ever installed/updated on your system.
>
Sorry, my bad, what I mean is:
1. You install a package foo-1.0.fc23.x86_64.rpm
2. The package is running on your system, version:1.0, and also the
rpm file from which you installed, is stored on /var/cache/dnf.
3. An update come, foo-1.1.fc23.x86_64.rpm.
4. After updating you end up with: foo-1.1fc23.x86_64.rpm running on
your system, foo-1.1.fc23.x86_64.rpm stored on /var/cache/dnf/
alongside foo-1.0.fc23.x86_64.rpm.

> --
> Regards,
> Sudhir Khanger,
> sudhirkhanger.com.
>
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Re: How much cache does keepcache keeps?

[Ralf Corsepius]

On 11/17/2015 08:44 AM, Porfirio Andres Paiz Carrasco wrote:

2015-11-16 23:41 GMT-06:00 Ralf Corsepius :

On 11/17/2015 05:28 AM, Sudhir Khanger wrote:


Hi,

I learned it the hard way that dnf undo/rollback will fail if packages
to rollback to are missing.



I would recommend not to waste time on rollbacks, because a package based
rollback will only work when a package's installation is non-stateful. This
applies to many "trivial packages", but does not apply in general.


Rollbacks works the same like downgrading?, Is the same task?


I am not sufficiently familiar with dnf's internals, but AFAICT, yes.


Downgrading is important when, for example you need to use xorg 1.17
instead of xorg 1.18 in order to install a nvidia privative driver
because nvidia does not works with the new xorg version.


The same consideration here: It's mere luck, if a downgrade works.
It's just that most packages are non-stateful, which lets downgrading 
most packages succeed.


Ralf

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Re: How much cache does keepcache keeps?

[Porfirio Andres Paiz Carrasco]

2015-11-16 23:41 GMT-06:00 Ralf Corsepius :
> On 11/17/2015 05:28 AM, Sudhir Khanger wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I learned it the hard way that dnf undo/rollback will fail if packages
>> to rollback to are missing.
>
>
> I would recommend not to waste time on rollbacks, because a package based
> rollback will only work when a package's installation is non-stateful. This
> applies to many "trivial packages", but does not apply in general.
>
Rollbacks works the same like downgrading?, Is the same task?

Downgrading is important when, for example you need to use xorg 1.17
instead of xorg 1.18 in order to install a nvidia privative driver
because nvidia does not works with the new xorg version.

> Ralf
>
>
>
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