Re: Linux Format mag. article F14 vs ubuntu
On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 1:54 PM, William Henry wrote: > > I had bought the (expensive) Linux Format mag. while on a trip recently for > an article comparing Fedora and ubuntu. I managed to track > down a version > of a Linux Format mag article (ubuntu vs fedora) that doesn't require a > subscription with Linux Format. friends: although the discourse is intriguing, i must remark-- before putting much concern into the topic-- i'm having difficulty, presently, getting beyond what's inferred here from the introduction. I apologise: is [whenry] indicating an option exists for a free /print/ magazine subscription, "Linux Format"? i suspect i misunderstand, however, i'm interested in print-media periodicals RE Linux; any no-cost subscription to Linux print magazines. thanks. - js -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Linux Format mag. article F14 vs ubuntu
On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 10:11 AM, Craig White wrote: > On Tue, 2010-12-14 at 00:10 -0500, Robert Myers wrote: >> I used to be a samba stud. Once I saw that ubuntu would do it for me, >> I thought, "Why should I have to?" I have a pretty complicated >> network. One less application/server to configure is nice. >> >> Guys who used to mess with their cars, can't do it any more because of >> the electronics, and take it out on obscure command line options in >> Linux. They have "detail-oriented/OCD" confused with "smart." Linux >> fairly crawls with these types. Ubuntu understands that most of the >> world is not like that and doesn't want to be like that. > > when you automatically configure something like samba, a lot of > assumptions are made which may work for a majority of users but becomes > settings that MUST be changed for the minority of users in order for it > to work. Those are philosophical choices that each distribution is > obviously free to make for their users. Generally Fedora packagers will > distribute the settings as intended by upstream developers which will > match the documentation provided by the upstream developers. I think that the additional option that Ubuntu sets by default is "usershare allow guests". > I find that Ubuntu has an astounding number of documentation pages on > various wikis that are often out of date, do not track the upstream > packagers and sometimes add to the confusion of the users and while it > may work for some, it also fails and sometimes fails miserably for > others. Ubuntu's official documentation's so bad (except for that for its server edition) that they ought to outsource it to Fedora (or Arch or Gentoo...). -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Linux Format mag. article F14 vs ubuntu
On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 10:11 AM, Craig White wrote: > > I find that Ubuntu has an astounding number of documentation pages on > various wikis that are often out of date, do not track the upstream > packagers and sometimes add to the confusion of the users and while it > may work for some, it also fails and sometimes fails miserably for > others. > > Samba itself is an extremely complicated package because it is so > versatile. It operates both as a server and as a client, emulates > methods/protocols from Windows 98 through Windows NT, 2000, XP, Vista > and now Windows 7. It offers a variety of authentication systems whether > local, LDAP, an AD server etc. As a Samba team member, it seems foolish > for any distribution to put into place a customized smb.conf on each > install but again, each distribution is certainly free to do as they see > fit. > If Ballmer/Gates, Inc. could have found a way to do it, samba wouldn't work at all. No complaints to the samba team, which has done great things. As to documentation, I can't even imagine how most of the world deals with any of it. I no longer use the official documentation or the built-in "help" button for *anything*. The "help" button is google plus some smarts about searching. I suspect that computer documentation is now actually viral (person-to-person within communities), and that my old-fashioned need to rely on anything but a friend to show me how to do it is a measure of how isolated I am. Robert. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Linux Format mag. article F14 vs ubuntu
On Tue, 2010-12-14 at 00:10 -0500, Robert Myers wrote: > I used to be a samba stud. Once I saw that ubuntu would do it for me, > I thought, "Why should I have to?" I have a pretty complicated > network. One less application/server to configure is nice. > > >> These are not typical clueless "desktop" users. The same users > might > >> well be using CentOS or Fedora or RHEL on a huge cluster, but, when > >> they do, there's a gearhead to take care of all the really cool > stuff > >> that Linux studs love to obsess over. > > > > Studs? Gearhead? > > Guys who used to mess with their cars, can't do it any more because of > the electronics, and take it out on obscure command line options in > Linux. They have "detail-oriented/OCD" confused with "smart." Linux > fairly crawls with these types. Ubuntu understands that most of the > world is not like that and doesn't want to be like that. when you automatically configure something like samba, a lot of assumptions are made which may work for a majority of users but becomes settings that MUST be changed for the minority of users in order for it to work. Those are philosophical choices that each distribution is obviously free to make for their users. Generally Fedora packagers will distribute the settings as intended by upstream developers which will match the documentation provided by the upstream developers. I find that Ubuntu has an astounding number of documentation pages on various wikis that are often out of date, do not track the upstream packagers and sometimes add to the confusion of the users and while it may work for some, it also fails and sometimes fails miserably for others. Samba itself is an extremely complicated package because it is so versatile. It operates both as a server and as a client, emulates methods/protocols from Windows 98 through Windows NT, 2000, XP, Vista and now Windows 7. It offers a variety of authentication systems whether local, LDAP, an AD server etc. As a Samba team member, it seems foolish for any distribution to put into place a customized smb.conf on each install but again, each distribution is certainly free to do as they see fit. Craig -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Linux Format mag. article F14 vs ubuntu
On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 11:12 PM, Gilboa Davara wrote: > On Sun, 2010-12-12 at 16:20 -0500, Robert Myers wrote: >> On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 1:47 PM, Patrick O'Callaghan >> wrote: >> > On Fri, 2010-12-10 at 14:14 -0500, Jesse Palser wrote: >> >> >> >> >> I use Ubuntu 10.10 32bit Linux. >> >> Tried F14 and was very disappointed. >> > >> > That's not a useful comment unless you explain what you didn't like. >> > >> >> I'm running both Fedora and Ubuntu, right now, at this very second, on >> the same computer. There's an instance of XP running, too. God bless >> vmware and I hope fedora gets its own virtualization act together one >> of these days. I'm a little confused as to which OS is using which >> ethernet card to do what, but no matter. > > OK. > Not sure exactly what wrong with qemu-kvm and virt-manager (I use the > former daily), but OK. > Last time I tried was with FC12. Had to fiddle with a lot of networking files in /etc and poorly-explained stuff about bridges, blah, blah, blah. Never did get the network connectivity I wanted. I don't have time for that kind of baloney when vmware just plugs in and goes. >> >> I don't know if it's a pattern or not, but I'm running Ubuntu because >> packages that are very interesting to me appear more often first on >> Ubuntu as a part of the distribution than they do on Fedora. >> > > Care to name a few? > Sage and a related package cadabra. Those are the most recent. >> Did I mention that I have a lot of system administration to do? Even >> though the packages I'm using on Ubuntu are aimed at *really* savvy >> people, these savvy people want to use their savvy getting things >> done, not showing that they can keep up with Fedora studs. >> > > God I hope you're kidding. > (Or did I simply failed to understand a hidden joke?) > I used to be a samba stud. Once I saw that ubuntu would do it for me, I thought, "Why should I have to?" I have a pretty complicated network. One less application/server to configure is nice. >> These are not typical clueless "desktop" users. The same users might >> well be using CentOS or Fedora or RHEL on a huge cluster, but, when >> they do, there's a gearhead to take care of all the really cool stuff >> that Linux studs love to obsess over. > > Studs? Gearhead? Guys who used to mess with their cars, can't do it any more because of the electronics, and take it out on obscure command line options in Linux. They have "detail-oriented/OCD" confused with "smart." Linux fairly crawls with these types. Ubuntu understands that most of the world is not like that and doesn't want to be like that. Robert. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Linux Format mag. article F14 vs ubuntu
On Sun, 2010-12-12 at 16:20 -0500, Robert Myers wrote: > On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 1:47 PM, Patrick O'Callaghan > wrote: > > On Fri, 2010-12-10 at 14:14 -0500, Jesse Palser wrote: > > >> > >> I use Ubuntu 10.10 32bit Linux. > >> Tried F14 and was very disappointed. > > > > That's not a useful comment unless you explain what you didn't like. > > > > I'm running both Fedora and Ubuntu, right now, at this very second, on > the same computer. There's an instance of XP running, too. God bless > vmware and I hope fedora gets its own virtualization act together one > of these days. I'm a little confused as to which OS is using which > ethernet card to do what, but no matter. OK. Not sure exactly what wrong with qemu-kvm and virt-manager (I use the former daily), but OK. > > I don't know if it's a pattern or not, but I'm running Ubuntu because > packages that are very interesting to me appear more often first on > Ubuntu as a part of the distribution than they do on Fedora. > Care to name a few? > Did I mention that I have a lot of system administration to do? Even > though the packages I'm using on Ubuntu are aimed at *really* savvy > people, these savvy people want to use their savvy getting things > done, not showing that they can keep up with Fedora studs. > God I hope you're kidding. (Or did I simply failed to understand a hidden joke?) > These are not typical clueless "desktop" users. The same users might > well be using CentOS or Fedora or RHEL on a huge cluster, but, when > they do, there's a gearhead to take care of all the really cool stuff > that Linux studs love to obsess over. Studs? Gearhead? I'm lost... - Gilboa -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Linux Format mag. article F14 vs ubuntu
On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 1:47 PM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > On Fri, 2010-12-10 at 14:14 -0500, Jesse Palser wrote: >> >> I use Ubuntu 10.10 32bit Linux. >> Tried F14 and was very disappointed. > > That's not a useful comment unless you explain what you didn't like. > I'm running both Fedora and Ubuntu, right now, at this very second, on the same computer. There's an instance of XP running, too. God bless vmware and I hope fedora gets its own virtualization act together one of these days. I'm a little confused as to which OS is using which ethernet card to do what, but no matter. I don't know if it's a pattern or not, but I'm running Ubuntu because packages that are very interesting to me appear more often first on Ubuntu as a part of the distribution than they do on Fedora. Did I mention that I have a lot of system administration to do? Even though the packages I'm using on Ubuntu are aimed at *really* savvy people, these savvy people want to use their savvy getting things done, not showing that they can keep up with Fedora studs. These are not typical clueless "desktop" users. The same users might well be using CentOS or Fedora or RHEL on a huge cluster, but, when they do, there's a gearhead to take care of all the really cool stuff that Linux studs love to obsess over. Robert. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Linux Format mag. article F14 vs ubuntu
On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 11:54 AM, William Henry wrote: > > I had bought the (expensive) Linux Format mag. while on a trip recently for > an article comparing Fedora and ubuntu. I managed to track down a version of > a Linux Format mag article (ubuntu vs fedora) that doesn't require a > subscription with Linux Format. > > http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/ubuntu-vs-fedora-which-is-best--907546 > > Spoiler: Fedora wins overall though falls short on desktop. Thanks for sharing. I'm going to forward this one on to the marketing team mailing list. -Robyn > > William > -- > users mailing list > users@lists.fedoraproject.org > To unsubscribe or change subscription options: > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users > Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Linux Format mag. article F14 vs ubuntu
On Fri, 2010-12-10 at 14:14 -0500, Jesse Palser wrote: > On 12/10/2010 01:54 PM, William Henry wrote: > > I had bought the (expensive) Linux Format mag. while on a trip recently for > > an article comparing Fedora and ubuntu. I managed to track down a version > > of a Linux Format mag article (ubuntu vs fedora) that doesn't require a > > subscription with Linux Format. > > > > http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/ubuntu-vs-fedora-which-is-best--907546 > > > > Spoiler: Fedora wins overall though falls short on desktop. > > > > William > > Hi, > > I use Ubuntu 10.10 32bit Linux. > Tried F14 and was very disappointed. That's not a useful comment unless you explain what you didn't like. poc -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Linux Format mag. article F14 vs ubuntu
On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 6:31 AM, Joe Zeff wrote: > On 12/10/2010 11:14 AM, Jesse Palser wrote: >> I use Ubuntu 10.10 32bit Linux. >> Tried F14 and was very disappointed. >> Thanks! > > I'm sorry to read that. What didn't you like? Remember, Fedora isn't > for everybody and doesn't try to be. If you want a distro where > everything Just Works you're not going to be happy with Fedora, > especially after Ubuntu, because there's not as much hand-holding here. > (e.g., Ubuntu installs the nVidia drivers for you and reinstalls them > after every kernel update; Fedora expects you to know how to do it > yourself.) > -- well, one point in that comparison is very fair "The truth is that there is a distro for everyone." *If you want some of the latest technologies, especially in terms of underlying system code, virtual machines and other of-themoment tech, Fedora is a good bet." "If you want to have a friendlier desktop experience where your every whim is catered for, Ubuntu would be better for your needs." I have used Fedora for many years. I tried Ubuntun a few times and found it is very easy to use. but I prefer stick with Fedora. -- Linux Toys http://linuxishbell.wordpress.com/ -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Linux Format mag. article F14 vs ubuntu
On 12/10/2010 11:14 AM, Jesse Palser wrote: > I use Ubuntu 10.10 32bit Linux. > Tried F14 and was very disappointed. > Thanks! I'm sorry to read that. What didn't you like? Remember, Fedora isn't for everybody and doesn't try to be. If you want a distro where everything Just Works you're not going to be happy with Fedora, especially after Ubuntu, because there's not as much hand-holding here. (e.g., Ubuntu installs the nVidia drivers for you and reinstalls them after every kernel update; Fedora expects you to know how to do it yourself.) -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Linux Format mag. article F14 vs ubuntu
On 12/10/2010 01:54 PM, William Henry wrote: > I had bought the (expensive) Linux Format mag. while on a trip recently for > an article comparing Fedora and ubuntu. I managed to track down a version of > a Linux Format mag article (ubuntu vs fedora) that doesn't require a > subscription with Linux Format. > > http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/ubuntu-vs-fedora-which-is-best--907546 > > Spoiler: Fedora wins overall though falls short on desktop. > > William Hi, I use Ubuntu 10.10 32bit Linux. Tried F14 and was very disappointed. Thanks! Jesse -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Linux Format mag. article F14 vs ubuntu
I had bought the (expensive) Linux Format mag. while on a trip recently for an article comparing Fedora and ubuntu. I managed to track down a version of a Linux Format mag article (ubuntu vs fedora) that doesn't require a subscription with Linux Format. http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/ubuntu-vs-fedora-which-is-best--907546 Spoiler: Fedora wins overall though falls short on desktop. William -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
