Re: PCI-E to PS2

2024-02-15 Thread Roger Heflin 
On Thu, Feb 15, 2024 at 6:35 AM George N. White III  wrote:
>
> On Tue, Feb 13, 2024 at 9:08 PM ToddAndMargo via users 
>  wrote:
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Fedora 39
>>
>> I am trying to find a PCI-E 1x to 2xPS2 adapter
>> that actually works.
>>
>> The only one I could find was
>> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07VB9TD6D
>> and it was dead on arrival: no power to the
>> keyboard.
>>
>> You guys know of one that is Fedora friendly
>> that actually works?
>
>
> I have used cheap PS2 to USB adapters.  If you have to
> have  PCI-E maybe there is a reliable PCI-E to USB card.
>
>

I would not count on any cards working early enough to be used by the bios.

I do remember a long time ago on early usb motherboards only certain
USB ports being usable for a keyboard(pre-bios needing a mouse) in the
bios.  Likely because not all of the USB chips were configured and/or
powered up early enough.
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Re: PCI-E to PS2

2024-02-15 Thread George N. White III 
On Tue, Feb 13, 2024 at 9:08 PM ToddAndMargo via users <
users@lists.fedoraproject.org> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Fedora 39
>
> I am trying to find a PCI-E 1x to 2xPS2 adapter
> that actually works.
>
> The only one I could find was
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07VB9TD6D
> and it was dead on arrival: no power to the
> keyboard.
>
> You guys know of one that is Fedora friendly
> that actually works?
>

I have used cheap PS2 to USB adapters.  If you have to
have  PCI-E maybe there is a reliable PCI-E to USB card.



>
> Many thanks,
> -T
>
>
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Re: PCI-E to PS2

2024-02-15 Thread Tim via users 
On Wed, 2024-02-14 at 22:04 -0600, Chris Adams wrote:
> I expect it's that motherboard firmware knows how to activate two kinds
> of input devices - PS/2 via the emulation of the legacy chips that date
> back to the 1980s, and USB.  A PCIe device is neither of those.  It's
> not just a matter of initializing the device, it has to be recognized
> and handled by the firmware, and it's such a rare thing, none do.

Until the last couple of days I don't think I've ever seen PS/2 ports
on a card.  I can only ever remember them as being directly on the
motherboard, and they'd be handled by firmware (at least pre-boot),
they're designed together.
 
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Re: PCI-E to PS2

2024-02-14 Thread Chris Adams 
Once upon a time, Tim  said:
> ToddAndMargo:
> > Just found this on their web site:
> > 
> >  "***Don't support CMOS or MS-DOS"
> > 
> > Even if it did not arrive dead, it would have still
> > required the OS to boot.  Lesson learned.
> 
> From what I'd read, that ought to be the case with any PCI-E based
> card.  Apparently the slots aren't dealt with early enough (they
> certainly can't be if they require drivers).  Although that doesn't
> make sense with other things - a graphics card can show a pre-boot
> screen, for instance (there's obviously some built-in functionality,
> even if it's more basic than post-boot).

I expect it's that motherboard firmware knows how to activate two kinds
of input devices - PS/2 via the emulation of the legacy chips that date
back to the 1980s, and USB.  A PCIe device is neither of those.  It's
not just a matter of initializing the device, it has to be recognized
and handled by the firmware, and it's such a rare thing, none do.

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Re: PCI-E to PS2

2024-02-14 Thread Tim via users 
ToddAndMargo:
> Just found this on their web site:
> 
>  "***Don't support CMOS or MS-DOS"
> 
> Even if it did not arrive dead, it would have still
> required the OS to boot.  Lesson learned.
> 

From what I'd read, that ought to be the case with any PCI-E based
card.  Apparently the slots aren't dealt with early enough (they
certainly can't be if they require drivers).  Although that doesn't
make sense with other things - a graphics card can show a pre-boot
screen, for instance (there's obviously some built-in functionality,
even if it's more basic than post-boot).

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Re: PCI-E to PS2

2024-02-14 Thread ToddAndMargo via users 

On 2/13/24 17:07, ToddAndMargo via users wrote:

The only one I could find was
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07VB9TD6D
and it was dead on arrival: no power to the
keyboard.


Just found this on their web site:

"***Don't support CMOS or MS-DOS"

Even if it did not arrive dead, it would have still
required the OS to boot.  Lesson learned.
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Re: PCI-E to PS2

2024-02-14 Thread ToddAndMargo via users 

On 2/14/24 06:37, murph nj wrote:

Monoproce USB-PS/2


Just found this one:
https://www.amazon.com/Jaquiain-Expansion-Adapter-External-Driver-Free/dp/B0BW89P678

Supports hot-swappable, plug-and-play and driver-free
peripherals SE-U2M9990A-P2 adopts ASIX MCS9990 chip solution,
stable transmission, compatible with line force, used for
all other external PS/2 interface devices such as mouse and
keyboard

Hmmm/  Cheap enought bu there is also:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/175132100313

• Drive-free, plug and play
• Windows, Linux, MAC operating system

If is also support MAC, it really does seem driver free.
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Re: PCI-E to PS2

2024-02-14 Thread murph nj 
The system that I built in 2020 has a PS/2 port, and an IBM model M
works great on it.

I've also had good luck with the Monoproce USB-PS/2 adapters on a
variety of systems.

On Wed, Feb 14, 2024 at 9:23 AM Tim via users
 wrote:
>
> Tim:
> >> I'm kind of surprised someone still has PS/2 keyboard/mouse that they'd
> >> like to keep using.
>
> ToddAndMargo:
> > One word.  It is a "Unicomp".  Best typist keyboard ever made.
>
> I was always partial to the IBM Selectric typewriter keyboards.  But,
> these days, I'm using $30 mechanical gaming cheapies from Kmart.  For a
> touch-typist (me) they're reasonably good.  Better than many of the
> pretend high quality $100+ ones you see in many stores.  They're
> probably *ALL* made for $3 in China, anyway.  About the only things
> I'd complain about them on them are too noisy and too sharp edges on
> the keys.  I do prefer keyboards that clunk rather than squoosh, but
> clackety-clack ones drive me around the bend.
>
> You might just have to try a few different *active* converters, then.
> Or, go the whole hog, and get one of those overblown Raspberry Pi kits
> just used as a keyboard converter.
>
> That, or get yourself a newer Unicomp...
>
> At least an old-school keyboard doesn't have those extra media keys
> which are a non-standard extension to deal with.  Though the really old
> ones are the 5-pin DIN connectors (XT/AT), not PS/2, and may require
> more power to run.
>
> I was surprised that my 2017/2018-era motherboard still had PS/2 ports
> on it.  I dunno if any motherboards have hidden ones (jumpers on the
> motherboard for a flylead to a socket panel).  Daughterboard PCI-E
> interfaces may allow you to use PS/2 keyboards once booted up, but
> aren't likely to be working before that.  Boot menus may be a problem.
> You could keep a crappy cheapy USB keyboard stashed away for if you
> need to change BIOS or UEFI settings.
>
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Re: PCI-E to PS2

2024-02-14 Thread Tim via users 
Tim:
>> I'm kind of surprised someone still has PS/2 keyboard/mouse that they'd
>> like to keep using.

ToddAndMargo:
> One word.  It is a "Unicomp".  Best typist keyboard ever made.

I was always partial to the IBM Selectric typewriter keyboards.  But,
these days, I'm using $30 mechanical gaming cheapies from Kmart.  For a
touch-typist (me) they're reasonably good.  Better than many of the
pretend high quality $100+ ones you see in many stores.  They're
probably *ALL* made for $3 in China, anyway.  About the only things
I'd complain about them on them are too noisy and too sharp edges on
the keys.  I do prefer keyboards that clunk rather than squoosh, but
clackety-clack ones drive me around the bend.

You might just have to try a few different *active* converters, then. 
Or, go the whole hog, and get one of those overblown Raspberry Pi kits
just used as a keyboard converter.

That, or get yourself a newer Unicomp...

At least an old-school keyboard doesn't have those extra media keys
which are a non-standard extension to deal with.  Though the really old
ones are the 5-pin DIN connectors (XT/AT), not PS/2, and may require
more power to run.

I was surprised that my 2017/2018-era motherboard still had PS/2 ports
on it.  I dunno if any motherboards have hidden ones (jumpers on the
motherboard for a flylead to a socket panel).  Daughterboard PCI-E
interfaces may allow you to use PS/2 keyboards once booted up, but
aren't likely to be working before that.  Boot menus may be a problem. 
You could keep a crappy cheapy USB keyboard stashed away for if you
need to change BIOS or UEFI settings.

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Re: PCI-E to PS2

2024-02-13 Thread jdow 

On 20240213 18:55:08, ToddAndMargo via users wrote:

On 2/13/24 18:32, Tim via users wrote:

On Tue, 2024-02-13 at 20:22 -0500, Felix Miata wrote:
I too would much rather have a working PCIe card, though I have found 
USB-to-PS/2
dongles generally more reliable. I haven't bought one in over a decade, so 
can't

recommend against any in particular that don't work.


*Some* of those only work with certain keyboards and mice.  The
plug/socket adaptor doesn't actually have any electronics in them, they
just rewire the pins from one to the other, misusing the USB connector.
The keyboards and mice they came with are dual-function and need an
adaptor that specifically suits them.

You want to look for keywords like "standalone" or "active" adaptors or
converters.  Something like how this advertises itself:

https://www.amazon.com/SANOXY-USB-Active-Adapter-Electronics/dp/B000I97N1M


I got one of those on my shop machine.  Does the same thing as my
office star tech.  Rats!


I have no idea about whether this particular one is any good, but it's
a cheap experiment and describes itself in the manner that seems
promising.  The reviews are mixed, but that could easily be due to the
specific keyboards that they're trying to use.

I'm kind of surprised someone still has PS/2 keyboard/mouse that they'd
like to keep using.


One word.  It is a "Unicomp".  Best typist keyboard
ever made.

:-)

One brand we have lying around is "Perixx". Another that is in happy service 
with an original IBM PS2 PC keyboard is branded by Monoprice.


{^_^}
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Re: PCI-E to PS2

2024-02-13 Thread ToddAndMargo via users 

On 2/13/24 18:32, Tim via users wrote:

On Tue, 2024-02-13 at 20:22 -0500, Felix Miata wrote:

I too would much rather have a working PCIe card, though I have found 
USB-to-PS/2
dongles generally more reliable. I haven't bought one in over a decade, so can't
recommend against any in particular that don't work.


*Some* of those only work with certain keyboards and mice.  The
plug/socket adaptor doesn't actually have any electronics in them, they
just rewire the pins from one to the other, misusing the USB connector.
The keyboards and mice they came with are dual-function and need an
adaptor that specifically suits them.

You want to look for keywords like "standalone" or "active" adaptors or
converters.  Something like how this advertises itself:

https://www.amazon.com/SANOXY-USB-Active-Adapter-Electronics/dp/B000I97N1M


I got one of those on my shop machine.  Does the same thing as my
office star tech.  Rats!


I have no idea about whether this particular one is any good, but it's
a cheap experiment and describes itself in the manner that seems
promising.  The reviews are mixed, but that could easily be due to the
specific keyboards that they're trying to use.

I'm kind of surprised someone still has PS/2 keyboard/mouse that they'd
like to keep using.


One word.  It is a "Unicomp".  Best typist keyboard
ever made.

:-)
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Re: PCI-E to PS2

2024-02-13 Thread Tim via users 
On Tue, 2024-02-13 at 20:22 -0500, Felix Miata wrote:
> I too would much rather have a working PCIe card, though I have found 
> USB-to-PS/2
> dongles generally more reliable. I haven't bought one in over a decade, so 
> can't
> recommend against any in particular that don't work.

*Some* of those only work with certain keyboards and mice.  The
plug/socket adaptor doesn't actually have any electronics in them, they
just rewire the pins from one to the other, misusing the USB connector.
The keyboards and mice they came with are dual-function and need an
adaptor that specifically suits them.

You want to look for keywords like "standalone" or "active" adaptors or
converters.  Something like how this advertises itself:

https://www.amazon.com/SANOXY-USB-Active-Adapter-Electronics/dp/B000I97N1M

I have no idea about whether this particular one is any good, but it's
a cheap experiment and describes itself in the manner that seems
promising.  The reviews are mixed, but that could easily be due to the
specific keyboards that they're trying to use.

I'm kind of surprised someone still has PS/2 keyboard/mouse that they'd
like to keep using.

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Re: PCI-E to PS2

2024-02-13 Thread Felix Miata 
ToddAndMargo via users composed on 2024-02-13 17:35 (UTC-0800):

> Felix Miata wrote:

>> ToddAndMargo via users composed on 2024-02-13 17:07 (UTC-0800):

>>> Fedora 39

>>> I am trying to find a PCI-E 1x to 2xPS2 adapter
>>> that actually works.

>>> The only one I could find was
>>>  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07VB9TD6D
>>> and it was dead on arrival: no power to the
>>> keyboard.

>>> You guys know of one that is Fedora friendly
>>> that actually works?

>> I too would much rather have a working PCIe card, though I have found 
>> USB-to-PS/2
>> dongles generally more reliable. I haven't bought one in over a decade, so 
>> can't
>> recommend against any in particular that don't work. This card is 
>> functionally
>> worthless too:

>> 

>> It only works a keyboard after an OS driver loads, so can't be used to get 
>> into
>> BIOS, BBS menu or Grub menu.

> It need to work in  bios too.  My USB dongle will flash
> my keyboard very couple of minutes and trash what I am
> writing.

One of the three dongles I have that work has a Belkin part number:

F5U119-E
-- 
Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion,
based on faith, not based on science.

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata
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Re: PCI-E to PS2

2024-02-13 Thread jdow 

On 20240213 17:35:05, ToddAndMargo via users wrote:

On 2/13/24 17:22, Felix Miata wrote:

ToddAndMargo via users composed on 2024-02-13 17:07 (UTC-0800):


Fedora 39



I am trying to find a PCI-E 1x to 2xPS2 adapter
that actually works.



The only one I could find was
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07VB9TD6D
and it was dead on arrival: no power to the
keyboard.



You guys know of one that is Fedora friendly
that actually works?


I too would much rather have a working PCIe card, though I have found 
USB-to-PS/2

dongles generally more reliable. I haven't bought one in over a decade, so can't
recommend against any in particular that don't work. This card is functionally
worthless too:

 



It only works a keyboard after an OS driver loads, so can't be used to get into
BIOS, BBS menu or Grub menu.



It need to work in  bios too.  My USB dongle will flash
my keyboard very couple of minutes and trash what I am
writing.

-T


You get the same problems on any OS. Loren and I bought several different models 
over the years. For some models two dongles will behave differently from each 
other, usually with different bugs. All I can recommend is "keep trying". Um, I 
suppose crafting your own out of a small SOC might be the best way. Then when 
you see a bug you can fix it in your code. It took Loren about5 or 6 tries to 
find one that worked. Ageing memory suggests the one that worked best was not a 
cheap one.


Good luck with it.

{^_^}   Joanne
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Re: PCI-E to PS2

2024-02-13 Thread ToddAndMargo via users 

On 2/13/24 17:22, Felix Miata wrote:

ToddAndMargo via users composed on 2024-02-13 17:07 (UTC-0800):


Fedora 39



I am trying to find a PCI-E 1x to 2xPS2 adapter
that actually works.



The only one I could find was
 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07VB9TD6D
and it was dead on arrival: no power to the
keyboard.



You guys know of one that is Fedora friendly
that actually works?


I too would much rather have a working PCIe card, though I have found 
USB-to-PS/2
dongles generally more reliable. I haven't bought one in over a decade, so can't
recommend against any in particular that don't work. This card is functionally
worthless too:



It only works a keyboard after an OS driver loads, so can't be used to get into
BIOS, BBS menu or Grub menu.



It need to work in  bios too.  My USB dongle will flash
my keyboard very couple of minutes and trash what I am
writing.

-T
~~
Computers are like air conditioners.
They malfunction when you open windows
~~
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Re: PCI-E to PS2

2024-02-13 Thread Felix Miata 
ToddAndMargo via users composed on 2024-02-13 17:07 (UTC-0800):

> Fedora 39

> I am trying to find a PCI-E 1x to 2xPS2 adapter
> that actually works.

> The only one I could find was
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07VB9TD6D
> and it was dead on arrival: no power to the
> keyboard.

> You guys know of one that is Fedora friendly
> that actually works?

I too would much rather have a working PCIe card, though I have found 
USB-to-PS/2
dongles generally more reliable. I haven't bought one in over a decade, so can't
recommend against any in particular that don't work. This card is functionally
worthless too:



It only works a keyboard after an OS driver loads, so can't be used to get into
BIOS, BBS menu or Grub menu.
-- 
Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion,
based on faith, not based on science.

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata
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PCI-E to PS2

2024-02-13 Thread ToddAndMargo via users 

Hi All,

Fedora 39

I am trying to find a PCI-E 1x to 2xPS2 adapter
that actually works.

The only one I could find was
   https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07VB9TD6D
and it was dead on arrival: no power to the
keyboard.

You guys know of one that is Fedora friendly
that actually works?

Many thanks,
-T


--
~~
Computers are like air conditioners.
They malfunction when you open windows
~~
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