Re: Export restrictions legalese in Fedora scare would-be local mirror
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 4:45 AM, Fernando Cassia wrote: > , I think the normal site sheesh, can't write before my morning coffee. I meant "the main site". FC -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Export restrictions legalese in Fedora scare would-be local mirror
On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 7:17 PM, Ian Malone wrote: > Nice work! Let's not open the champagne until the mirror is formal and announced. Just looked and they seem to have run out of space while populating the mirror, apparently they did a rsync of F1* so they got from 10 to 15 :). I have now emailed them with details about an exclude.txt and how to exclude FCx to F15 and just mirror F16 and F17. By the way, I think the normal site should put all obsoleted versions under an /obsolete subdir... Or conversely, put the actively supported releases under /Fedora/current. Although I think the first approach is clearer. That way no mirror would decide to mirror "obsolete" releases unless they *really* intend to... Whatd'ya think?. FC -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Export restrictions legalese in Fedora scare would-be local mirror
On 23 July 2012 15:28, Fernando Cassia wrote: > My half-italian genes kicked in and I wrote a somewhat unpolite email > telling "oh rly?" ;) and pointing at export restrictions legalese in > the apache.org site too (that they mirror), along with the CentOS > discussion. > > Result: he apologized and told me there would be a local mirror during > the week. :) > I also suggested them they could mirror it from Chilean or Brazilian > existing mirrors so there would be no connection to US based > servers... > > Sometimes carrying a hatchet works. ;)) Nice work! -- imalone http://ibmalone.blogspot.co.uk -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Export restrictions legalese in Fedora scare would-be local mirror
On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 7:20 PM, jdow wrote: > > Remember what the old saw said about Yankee traders that they'd sell you > the rope to hang them with? Well, if you think about it the Open Source > ethos is to give them that rope with the source and instructions to make > more rope. This strikes me as being just a skosh unwise. Not sure I' m catching your drift JD. FC -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Export restrictions legalese in Fedora scare would-be local mirror
On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 9:41 AM, Fernando Cassia wrote: > Just got a reply from a local would-be mirror telling me they > discarded Fedora from the local Linux mirror lists because of the > "export restrictions" > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal/Export > http://fedoraunity.org/export-restrictions > > However, they carry Debian and CentOS, implying that the same > restrictions do not apply to those projects. > > I think that is a silly excuse and that they´re full of s... as I > don´t see any fundamental differences between Fedora and CentOS... > > Specially after reading > http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/2008-October/066853.html > > Thoughts? Comments? > > FC > PS: they´re a goverment-owned telecomms firm > http://mirrors.dcarsat.com.ar/ so they might be more paranoid to > legalese and fear of Uncle Sam getting after them (or us as a country) > if they don´t police access restrictions to the mirror site as per the > wishes of the us govt. > -- > users mailing list > users@lists.fedoraproject.org > To unsubscribe or change subscription options: > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users > Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org If anything it's their loss...they'll just miss out on helping to spread a well-known and widely used OS that is truly free of charge. EGO II -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Export restrictions legalese in Fedora scare would-be local mirror
On 2012/07/23 07:32, Fernando Cassia wrote:
On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 11:22 AM, Andy Blanchard wrote:
Alternatively, they *are* a telco, and a state-owned one at that - not
exactly a combination known for adopting a flexible approach!
we´ve lived it all... state owned monopoly (service sucks), privatized
monopoly (prices suck), and now the govt wants to become another
player alongside the private players (they´re building a national
fiber backbone reaching out places that the private sector never
covered, sort of mirroring the Australian NBN approach).
FC
Remember what the old saw said about Yankee traders that they'd sell you
the rope to hang them with? Well, if you think about it the Open Source
ethos is to give them that rope with the source and instructions to make
more rope. This strikes me as being just a skosh unwise.
{o.o}
--
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Re: Export restrictions legalese in Fedora scare would-be local mirror
On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 12:00 PM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > Questions about the export restrictions should probably be posted to > the legal list instead: > > le...@lists.fedoraproject.org > http://lists.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/legal Thanks Paul. Hopefully the issue has been solved. (the initial reluctance to host a local mirror). FC -- During times of Universal Deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act Durante épocas de Engaño Universal, decir la verdad se convierte en un Acto Revolucionario - George Orwell -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Export restrictions legalese in Fedora scare would-be local mirror
On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 11:45 AM, Andy Blanchard wrote: > Bravo! Have a Fedora Community Gold Star award! > > OK, I made that up, but personally getting a new mirror established in an > area where there are not a great deal to choose from in the first place at > least deserves some kind of honerable mention in Fedora Weekly News or some > such, IMHO. Chasing sysadmins to get local mirrors has been a hobby of mine for the last decade. I started with Sun and its former "SunSite"... who told me 11 yrs ago that they had donated a server for that purpose to UBA.ar university but that they ended up repurposing the server for another project. (go figure). Then this year I contacted scientific body CONICET (whom host CentOS mirrors at centos.mirror.mendoza-conicet.gob.ar) but they replied they lacked enough bandwidth. Then I approached a local FTTH ISP (http://www.phonevision.com.ar) whom first balked at the idea due to disk space concerns. I later told them they could mirror just f16, f17 for a fraction of the total space using ´excludes´)... they were open to the idea and forgot to follow-up with them... So, let´s cross fingers and wait until ArSat does something... it´d be very great news if they do. I admit my interest is purely egotistical, as all I want is faster downloads and installs from a local repo. ;) FC -- During times of Universal Deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act - George Orwell -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Export restrictions legalese in Fedora scare would-be local mirror
On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 10:41:55AM -0300, Fernando Cassia wrote: > Just got a reply from a local would-be mirror telling me they > discarded Fedora from the local Linux mirror lists because of the > "export restrictions" > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal/Export > http://fedoraunity.org/export-restrictions > > However, they carry Debian and CentOS, implying that the same > restrictions do not apply to those projects. > > I think that is a silly excuse and that they´re full of s... as I > don´t see any fundamental differences between Fedora and CentOS... > > Specially after reading > http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/2008-October/066853.html > > Thoughts? Comments? > > FC > PS: they´re a goverment-owned telecomms firm > http://mirrors.dcarsat.com.ar/ so they might be more paranoid to > legalese and fear of Uncle Sam getting after them (or us as a country) > if they don´t police access restrictions to the mirror site as per the > wishes of the us govt. Questions about the export restrictions should probably be posted to the legal list instead: le...@lists.fedoraproject.org http://lists.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/legal -- Paul W. Frieldshttp://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ The open source story continues to grow: http://opensource.com -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Export restrictions legalese in Fedora scare would-be local mirror
> > Result: he apologized and told me there would be a local mirror during > the week. :) > I also suggested them they could mirror it from Chilean or Brazilian > existing mirrors so there would be no connection to US based > servers... > Bravo! Have a Fedora Community Gold Star award! OK, I made that up, but personally getting a new mirror established in an area where there are not a great deal to choose from in the first place at least deserves some kind of honerable mention in Fedora Weekly News or some such, IMHO. -- Andy *The only person to have all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe* -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Export restrictions legalese in Fedora scare would-be local mirror
On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 11:22 AM, Andy Blanchard wrote: > Alternatively, they *are* a telco, and a state-owned one at that - not > exactly a combination known for adopting a flexible approach! we´ve lived it all... state owned monopoly (service sucks), privatized monopoly (prices suck), and now the govt wants to become another player alongside the private players (they´re building a national fiber backbone reaching out places that the private sector never covered, sort of mirroring the Australian NBN approach). FC -- During times of Universal Deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act Durante épocas de Engaño Universal, decir la verdad se convierte en un Acto Revolucionario - George Orwell -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Export restrictions legalese in Fedora scare would-be local mirror
On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 11:22 AM, Andy Blanchard wrote: > Maybe, having pointed out that they continue to host CentOS/Debian, you > could request clarification of what makes them exempt and take it from > there? > > Alternatively, they *are* a telco, and a state-owned one at that - not > exactly a combination known for adopting a flexible approach! Although I > admire your efforts in establishing a local Argentinian mirror, I suspect > this may just be a matter of time before you end up calling it a day and > using an alternative mirror. My half-italian genes kicked in and I wrote a somewhat unpolite email telling "oh rly?" ;) and pointing at export restrictions legalese in the apache.org site too (that they mirror), along with the CentOS discussion. Result: he apologized and told me there would be a local mirror during the week. :) I also suggested them they could mirror it from Chilean or Brazilian existing mirrors so there would be no connection to US based servers... Sometimes carrying a hatchet works. ;)) FC -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Export restrictions legalese in Fedora scare would-be local mirror
I also call that they are full of it on grounds that they continue to host Debian and CentOS. The question is whether "it" is just paranoia or something else... Argentina (presumably your local mirror is hosted in the same geographic locale as their ccTLD) is not currently listed in the Export Administration Regulations cited on the two pages you linked. That means that their only grounds for doing this is that they fear that they may be, or already have been, used as a mirror by someone covered by the EAR and that they will incur the wrath of the US as a result. Along with, presumably, every other Fedora mirror in the world that doesn't vet their downloads. Also, as you point out, the EAR restrictions apply to both CentOS and Debian - indeed, Debian has a discussion on this very topic here, albeit a little dated: http://www.debian.org/legal/cryptoinmain - I think the crypto export restrictions have now actually been lifted, but I'm not 100% sure on that. The sole possible exception would be if there is a specific set of packages present in the default Fedora distro that are both not present in CentOS/Debian and subject to the export restrictions. Maybe, having pointed out that they continue to host CentOS/Debian, you could request clarification of what makes them exempt and take it from there? Alternatively, they *are* a telco, and a state-owned one at that - not exactly a combination known for adopting a flexible approach! Although I admire your efforts in establishing a local Argentinian mirror, I suspect this may just be a matter of time before you end up calling it a day and using an alternative mirror. -- Andy *The only person to have all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe* -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
