Re: Partition does not end on cylinder boundary
On Mon, 2011-06-06 at 21:11 +0930, Tim wrote: On Sun, 2011-06-05 at 17:07 +0100, Alan Cox wrote: It doesn't care whether that is flash, rotating media, or indeed cards pinned to donuts. Is there an RFC for the last one? ;-) Donuts are not particularly well suited for data storage. They tend to be hostile to input devices. That does remind me of a very funny joke though... Who is the most popular man at a nudist colony? The man who can carry 2 cups of coffee and a dozen doughnuts. Who is the most popular woman at this nudist colony? The woman who can eat all 12 doughnuts. Craig -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Partition does not end on cylinder boundary
On Wed, 08 Jun 2011 04:55:13 -0700 Craig White wrote: Donuts are not particularly well suited for data storage. They tend to be hostile to input devices. Nonsense! They were the first successful data storage technology: http://www.nzeldes.com/HOC/CoreMemory.htm Though they were donuts pinned to cards rather than cards pinned to donuts :-) -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Partition does not end on cylinder boundary
On Wed, 2011-06-08 at 04:55 -0700, Craig White wrote: Donuts are not particularly well suited for data storage. They tend to be hostile to input devices. I suppose they could lead to stale data... That does remind me of a very funny joke though... From data, to doughnuts, to nudist jokes? Whatever will happen next? ;-) -- [tim@localhost ~]$ uname -r 2.6.27.25-78.2.56.fc9.i686 Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I read messages from the public lists. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Partition does not end on cylinder boundary
On 06/08/2011 05:56 AM, Tom Horsley wrote: Though they were donuts pinned to cards rather than cards pinned to donuts :-) Unless my memory's faded, they had several different wires threaded to them which held them in place in a big square array. No pins, no card. At least that was true (IIRC) on the IBM 1620 I worked on when I was first learning programming. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Partition does not end on cylinder boundary
On 8 Jun 2011 at 7:22, Joe Zeff wrote: Date sent: Wed, 08 Jun 2011 07:22:36 -0700 From: Joe Zeff j...@zeff.us To: Community support for Fedora users users@lists.fedoraproject.org Subject:Re: Partition does not end on cylinder boundary Send reply to: Community support for Fedora users users@lists.fedoraproject.org mailto:users- requ...@lists.fedoraproject.org?subject=unsubscribe mailto:users- requ...@lists.fedoraproject.org?subject=subscribe On 06/08/2011 05:56 AM, Tom Horsley wrote: Though they were donuts pinned to cards rather than cards pinned to donuts :-) Unless my memory's faded, they had several different wires threaded to them which held them in place in a big square array. No pins, no card. At least that was true (IIRC) on the IBM 1620 I worked on when I was first learning programming. Back in the mid 70's I worked on a 1963 IBM 1130 in my high school in Guam, and it had core memory, and you could see the memory (all 4K of it), and had a little modual that you could plug in another section to actually read the memory. But that was like 35 years ago, so I may be thinking of somethinge else. Punched cards and 5M removable disks, no crt, teletype printer. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines +--+ Michael D. Setzer II - Computer Science Instructor Guam Community College Computer Center mailto:mi...@kuentos.guam.net mailto:msetze...@gmail.com http://www.guam.net/home/mikes Guam - Where America's Day Begins G4L Disk Imaging Project maintainer http://sourceforge.net/projects/g4l/ +--+ http://setiathome.berkeley.edu (Original) Number of Seti Units Returned: 19,471 Processing time: 32 years, 290 days, 12 hours, 58 minutes (Total Hours: 287,489) BOINC@HOME CREDITS SETI10854179.421156 | EINSTEIN 5995732.120851 ROSETTA 3228770.538737 | ABC 6219550.373227 -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Partition does not end on cylinder boundary
On Thu, 2011-06-09 at 02:03 +1000, Michael D. Setzer II wrote: Back in the mid 70's I worked on a 1963 IBM 1130 in my high school in Guam, and it had core memory, and you could see the memory (all 4K of it), and had a little modual that you could plug in another section to actually read the memory. But that was like 35 years ago, so I may be thinking of somethinge else. Punched cards and 5M removable disks, no crt, teletype printer. Bah, I remember when we used pen and paper... ;-) (And we used far less paper than when computers were around.) -- [tim@localhost ~]$ uname -r 2.6.27.25-78.2.56.fc9.i686 Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I read messages from the public lists. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Partition does not end on cylinder boundary
On 06/09/2011 01:05 AM, Tim wrote: On Thu, 2011-06-09 at 02:03 +1000, Michael D. Setzer II wrote: Back in the mid 70's I worked on a 1963 IBM 1130 in my high school in Guam, and it had core memory, and you could see the memory (all 4K of it), and had a little modual that you could plug in another section to actually read the memory. But that was like 35 years ago, so I may be thinking of somethinge else. Punched cards and 5M removable disks, no crt, teletype printer. Bah, I remember when we used pen and paper... ;-) A quill? Parchment? (And we used far less paper than when computers were around.) Steve -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Partition does not end on cylinder boundary
On Sun, 2011-06-05 at 17:07 +0100, Alan Cox wrote: It doesn't care whether that is flash, rotating media, or indeed cards pinned to donuts. Is there an RFC for the last one? ;-) -- [tim@localhost ~]$ uname -r 2.6.27.25-78.2.56.fc9.i686 Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I read messages from the public lists. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Partition does not end on cylinder boundary
On 6 June 2011 12:41, Tim ignored_mail...@yahoo.com.au wrote: On Sun, 2011-06-05 at 17:07 +0100, Alan Cox wrote: It doesn't care whether that is flash, rotating media, or indeed cards pinned to donuts. Is there an RFC for the last one? ;-) Maybe next April? Though the pigeons might eat them. -- imalone -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Partition does not end on cylinder boundary
On Sat, 04 Jun 2011 12:50:12 +0100 Timothy Murphy gayle...@eircom.net wrote: Does this matter? If so, what can you do about it? I get it after partitioning with fdisk, choosing partitions of size 50GB, etc. Is it really better to give the block count? Traditional boot loader stuff and BIOS depends on cylinder counts but modern systems don't really care so it's no longer that important. It's probably a good idea to keep any bootable partition cylinder aligned just in case. Incidentally, I notice that lshal takes a block as 512B, while fdisk has 1kB blocks. The physical block size of a traditional hard disk is 512 bytes and each block is fixed that size. The block size used by ext2/3 is usually 1K or 4K and maps to a set of adjacent hard disk blocks. Various tools report 1K blocks. In truth it's even more complicated than that nowdays Firstly - drives haven't truely had a heads/cylinders/sectors geometry model for years, they fake a geometry for compatibility with old OS. Seocndly the physical block size of many modern drives is 4K or so and they fake 512 byte sectors. The OS partitioning tools also try to align things on the boundary of a 'real' sector so that a 4K linux ext3 block maps to a real 4K disk block in order to get the best performance. Alan -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Partition does not end on cylinder boundary
On Sun, Jun 5, 2011 at 6:49 AM, Alan Cox a...@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk wrote: On Sat, 04 Jun 2011 12:50:12 +0100 Timothy Murphy gayle...@eircom.net wrote: Does this matter? If so, what can you do about it? I get it after partitioning with fdisk, choosing partitions of size 50GB, etc. Is it really better to give the block count? Traditional boot loader stuff and BIOS depends on cylinder counts but modern systems don't really care so it's no longer that important. It's probably a good idea to keep any bootable partition cylinder aligned just in case. Incidentally, I notice that lshal takes a block as 512B, while fdisk has 1kB blocks. The physical block size of a traditional hard disk is 512 bytes and each block is fixed that size. The block size used by ext2/3 is usually 1K or 4K and maps to a set of adjacent hard disk blocks. Various tools report 1K blocks. In truth it's even more complicated than that nowdays Firstly - drives haven't truely had a heads/cylinders/sectors geometry model for years, they fake a geometry for compatibility with old OS. Seocndly the physical block size of many modern drives is 4K or so and they fake 512 byte sectors. The OS partitioning tools also try to align things on the boundary of a 'real' sector so that a 4K linux ext3 block maps to a real 4K disk block in order to get the best performance. would you say then, that best practise would be to let anaconda create the /boot, / and other partitions? fdisk wouldn't align properly right? -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Partition does not end on cylinder boundary
On 06/05/11 03:49, Alan Cox wrote: On Sat, 04 Jun 2011 12:50:12 +0100 Timothy Murphygayle...@eircom.net wrote: Does this matter? If so, what can you do about it? I get it after partitioning with fdisk, choosing partitions of size 50GB, etc. Is it really better to give the block count? Traditional boot loader stuff and BIOS depends on cylinder counts but modern systems don't really care so it's no longer that important. It's probably a good idea to keep any bootable partition cylinder aligned just in case. Incidentally, I notice that lshal takes a block as 512B, while fdisk has 1kB blocks. The physical block size of a traditional hard disk is 512 bytes and each block is fixed that size. The block size used by ext2/3 is usually 1K or 4K and maps to a set of adjacent hard disk blocks. Various tools report 1K blocks. In truth it's even more complicated than that nowdays Firstly - drives haven't truely had a heads/cylinders/sectors geometry model for years, they fake a geometry for compatibility with old OS. Seocndly the physical block size of many modern drives is 4K or so and they fake 512 byte sectors. The OS partitioning tools also try to align things on the boundary of a 'real' sector so that a 4K linux ext3 block maps to a real 4K disk block in order to get the best performance. Alan Right. Also, modern drives have variable sectors per track. But the FS code still organizes disk blocks into cylinder groups. Even though these cylinder groups are virtual (i.e. just the FS driver's way of organizing the disk blocks, it has remained within the FS code for various reasons, such as distributing the inodes to be interspersed over the disk to reduce head movement, and to allocate new blocks as close to the file's or dir's inode as possible. So, even if the a disk cylinder is now a virtual thing, it still helps in organizing the disk blocks into a manageable collection. Perhaps someone will write a new FS that will completely get away from blocks and cylinders. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Partition does not end on cylinder boundary
would you say then, that best practise would be to let anaconda create the /boot, / and other partitions? fdisk wouldn't align properly right? I don't know the fdisk included with Fedora is aware of or not. Probably best to let Anaconda do it in general. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Partition does not end on cylinder boundary
to the file's or dir's inode as possible. So, even if the a disk cylinder is now a virtual thing, it still helps in organizing the disk The notion of a cylinder group comes from BSD, and in 4.2 BSD FFS they were indeed physically laid out to match the media. Linux has never done that because by the time Linux existed it made no sense. Perhaps someone will write a new FS that will completely get away from blocks and cylinders. The only notion a Linux file system abstraction uses is a block number, where 0 is one end of the media and [large number] the other. It doesn't care whether that is flash, rotating media, or indeed cards pinned to donuts. There are some file systems which don't deal with abstract blocking in quite the same way - those are the raw flash file systems that use MTD (eg JFFS2). They have to have a deeper knowledge of the underlying media because of the complex rules about age wearing and erase block sizes on flash media. Alan -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Partition does not end on cylinder boundary
On 06/04/11 04:50, Timothy Murphy wrote: Does this matter? If so, what can you do about it? I get it after partitioning with fdisk, choosing partitions of size 50GB, etc. Is it really better to give the block count? Incidentally, I notice that lshal takes a block as 512B, while fdisk has 1kB blocks. What tool did you use to create the partition in the first place. I thought that fdisk, sfdisk and gparted always round up (or down) to end of cylinder. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Partition does not end on cylinder boundary
On Sat, 04 Jun 2011 09:02:48 -0700 JD wrote: What tool did you use to create the partition in the first place. I thought that fdisk, sfdisk and gparted always round up (or down) to end of cylinder. Over the years, I have used lots of different partitioning tools, and one thing I have found is that every one of them just knows the rules that ought to be applied to partitions to put them on the right boundaries, and every one of those tools has different rules and screams and hollers about the partitioning generated any of the other tools :-). Every once in a while, I have tried to search for some definitive statement of what the rules really are, and I've never found one. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Partition does not end on cylinder boundary
On 06/04/11 09:54, Tom Horsley wrote: On Sat, 04 Jun 2011 09:02:48 -0700 JD wrote: What tool did you use to create the partition in the first place. I thought that fdisk, sfdisk and gparted always round up (or down) to end of cylinder. Over the years, I have used lots of different partitioning tools, and one thing I have found is that every one of them just knows the rules that ought to be applied to partitions to put them on the right boundaries, and every one of those tools has different rules and screams and hollers about the partitioning generated any of the other tools :-). Every once in a while, I have tried to search for some definitive statement of what the rules really are, and I've never found one. So my question still stands. What did you use to create the partition :) -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Partition does not end on cylinder boundary
On Sat, 2011-06-04 at 10:00 -0700, JD wrote: On 06/04/11 09:54, Tom Horsley wrote: On Sat, 04 Jun 2011 09:02:48 -0700 JD wrote: What tool did you use to create the partition in the first place. I thought that fdisk, sfdisk and gparted always round up (or down) to end of cylinder. Over the years, I have used lots of different partitioning tools, and one thing I have found is that every one of them just knows the rules that ought to be applied to partitions to put them on the right boundaries, and every one of those tools has different rules and screams and hollers about the partitioning generated any of the other tools :-). Every once in a while, I have tried to search for some definitive statement of what the rules really are, and I've never found one. So my question still stands. What did you use to create the partition :) Hi I've been using gdisk recently - no hiccups so far Just installed F15 on an SSD, pre-configuring the disk with gdisk (F14 version) Just normal partitions (No LVs, ...) John -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Partition does not end on cylinder boundary
On 4 June 2011 21:50, Timothy Murphy gayle...@eircom.net wrote: [Partition does not end on cylinder boundary] Does this matter? If so, what can you do about it? I get it after partitioning with fdisk, choosing partitions of size 50GB, etc. The message refers to an attempt to describe the end sector using an assumed/fictional number of cylinders, heads, sectors/track. Probably there are not enough bits in the CHS fields to accomodate a disk of the size you are using. Linux uses LBA and does not care about CHS. Some bootloaders require correct CHS values but only to locate the start, not the end. There is no known operating system that requires this restriction. However, there exists software that tries to guess the disk geometry by looking at the CHS start and end values in a partition table. Note that with large disks CHS values are entirely meaningless. [1] In a DOS type partition table the starting offset and the size of each partition is stored in two ways: as an absolute number of sectors (given in 32 bits) and as a Cylinders/Heads/Sectors triple (given in 10+8+6 bits). The former is OK - with 512-byte sectors this will work up to 2 TB. The latter has two different problems. First of all, these C/H/S fields can be filled only when the number of heads and the number of sectors per track are known. Secondly, even if we know what these numbers should be, the 24 bits that are available do not suffice. DOS uses C/H/S only, Windows uses both, Linux never uses C/H/S. If possible, fdisk will obtain the disk geometry automatically. This is not necessarily the physical disk geometry (indeed, modern disks do not really have anything like a physical geometry, certainly not something that can be described in simplistic Cylinders/Heads/Sectors form), but is the disk geometry that MS-DOS uses for the partition table. Usually all goes well by default, and there are no problems if Linux is the only system on the disk. However, if the disk has to be shared with other operating systems, it is often a good idea to let an fdisk from another operating system make at least one partition. When Linux boots it looks at the partition table, and tries to deduce what (fake) geometry is required for good cooperation with other systems. [2] [1] http://www.win.tue.nl/~aeb/partitions/partition_types-2.html [2] man fdisk -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Partition does not end on cylinder boundary
On Sat, 2011-06-04 at 12:50 +0100, Timothy Murphy wrote: Does this matter? If so, what can you do about it? I get it after partitioning with fdisk, choosing partitions of size 50GB, etc. Is it really better to give the block count? Incidentally, I notice that lshal takes a block as 512B, while fdisk has 1kB blocks. It would be better if partition ends on a cylinder boundary but the system will still work. The block size is determined during the formatting of the partition. -- === People who go to conferences are the ones who shouldn't. === Aaron Konstam telephone: (210) 656-0355 e-mail: akons...@sbcglobal.net -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Partition does not end on cylinder boundary
On 5 June 2011 10:19, Aaron Konstam akons...@sbcglobal.net wrote: On Sat, 2011-06-04 at 12:50 +0100, Timothy Murphy wrote: Does this matter? If so, what can you do about it? I get it after partitioning with fdisk, choosing partitions of size 50GB, etc. It would be better if partition ends on a cylinder boundary but the system will still work. I am curious about *how* specifically that it would be better. In what situation is a end cylinder boundary important or relevant? -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Partition does not end on cylinder boundary
On 06/04/11 17:19, Aaron Konstam wrote: On Sat, 2011-06-04 at 12:50 +0100, Timothy Murphy wrote: Does this matter? If so, what can you do about it? I get it after partitioning with fdisk, choosing partitions of size 50GB, etc. Is it really better to give the block count? Incidentally, I notice that lshal takes a block as 512B, while fdisk has 1kB blocks. It would be better if partition ends on a cylinder boundary but the system will still work. The block size is determined during the formatting of the partition. I believe that if the partition does not end on a cylinder boundary, then the file system will end at the immediately previous cylinder boundary. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Partition does not end on cylinder boundary
On 06/04/11 17:36, David wrote: On 5 June 2011 10:19, Aaron Konstamakons...@sbcglobal.net wrote: On Sat, 2011-06-04 at 12:50 +0100, Timothy Murphy wrote: Does this matter? If so, what can you do about it? I get it after partitioning with fdisk, choosing partitions of size 50GB, etc. It would be better if partition ends on a cylinder boundary but the system will still work. I am curious about *how* specifically that it would be better. In what situation is a end cylinder boundary important or relevant? The filesystem builds it's map of blocks in groups of cylinders. You can see this clearly when you create a partition which will use up the rest of the disk (ie, to end of disk). often about 8mb always remains unused at end of disk because it is not a complete cylinder. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Partition does not end on cylinder boundary
On 5 June 2011 10:59, JD jd1...@gmail.com wrote: On 06/04/11 17:36, David wrote: On 5 June 2011 10:19, Aaron Konstamakons...@sbcglobal.net wrote: It would be better if partition ends on a cylinder boundary but the system will still work. I am curious about *how* specifically that it would be better. In what situation is a end cylinder boundary important or relevant? The filesystem builds it's map of blocks in groups of cylinders. You can see this clearly when you create a partition which will use up the rest of the disk (ie, to end of disk). often about 8mb always remains unused at end of disk because it is not a complete cylinder. Thanks for your interest and reply. because it is not a complete CYLINDER (my emphasis added) I am curious if you can cite a reference for this? What filesystem are you referring to? So (assuming some linux filesystem) if we looked at its mkfs code, we would see that it cares about obsolete (and meaningless under linux, not to mention irrevocably broken for large disks) MSDOS cylinders? Just asking because I feel that this is unlikely but would be pleased to be corrected by any authoritative facts you can cite :-) -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Partition does not end on cylinder boundary
On 06/04/11 18:18, David wrote: On 5 June 2011 10:59, JDjd1...@gmail.com wrote: On 06/04/11 17:36, David wrote: On 5 June 2011 10:19, Aaron Konstamakons...@sbcglobal.netwrote: It would be better if partition ends on a cylinder boundary but the system will still work. I am curious about *how* specifically that it would be better. In what situation is a end cylinder boundary important or relevant? The filesystem builds it's map of blocks in groups of cylinders. You can see this clearly when you create a partition which will use up the rest of the disk (ie, to end of disk). often about 8mb always remains unused at end of disk because it is not a complete cylinder. Thanks for your interest and reply. because it is not a complete CYLINDER (my emphasis added) I am curious if you can cite a reference for this? What filesystem are you referring to? So (assuming some linux filesystem) if we looked at its mkfs code, we would see that it cares about obsolete (and meaningless under linux, not to mention irrevocably broken for large disks) MSDOS cylinders? Just asking because I feel that this is unlikely but would be pleased to be corrected by any authoritative facts you can cite :-) I think you can read the kernel source code as well as anyone. So you have to do some homework :) -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Partition does not end on cylinder boundary
On 5 June 2011 11:42, JD jd1...@gmail.com wrote: I think you can read the kernel source code as well as anyone. So you have to do some homework :) [david@kablamm partition]$ rpm -qf /sbin/mkfs.ext3 e2fsprogs-1.41.9-5.fc12.i686 kernel ? -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Partition does not end on cylinder boundary
On 06/04/11 19:02, David wrote: On 5 June 2011 11:42, JDjd1...@gmail.com wrote: I think you can read the kernel source code as well as anyone. So you have to do some homework :) [david@kablamm partition]$ rpm -qf /sbin/mkfs.ext3 e2fsprogs-1.41.9-5.fc12.i686 kernel ? Well, you can peruse the latest mainline kernel source: http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.6/linux-2.6.39.1.tar.bz2 By the way: Kernel 3.0 RC1 is out! Yeay! We break away from 2.X :) http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v3.0/testing/linux-3.0-rc1.tar.bz2 -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Partition does not end on cylinder boundary
On 5 June 2011 12:07, JD jd1...@gmail.com wrote: On 06/04/11 19:02, David wrote: On 5 June 2011 11:42, JDjd1...@gmail.com wrote: I think you can read the kernel source code as well as anyone. So you have to do some homework :) [david@kablamm partition]$ rpm -qf /sbin/mkfs.ext3 e2fsprogs-1.41.9-5.fc12.i686 kernel ? Well, you can peruse the latest mainline kernel source: http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.6/linux-2.6.39.1.tar.bz2 Partitioning is done by mkfs variants. Nothing to do with the kernel. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Partition does not end on cylinder boundary
On 5 June 2011 12:15, David bouncingc...@gmail.com wrote: Partitioning is done by mkfs variants. Nothing to do with the kernel. s/Partitioning/Filesystem creation -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Partition does not end on cylinder boundary
On 06/04/2011 10:15 PM, David wrote: On 5 June 2011 12:07, JD jd1...@gmail.com wrote: On 06/04/11 19:02, David wrote: On 5 June 2011 11:42, JDjd1...@gmail.com wrote: I think you can read the kernel source code as well as anyone. So you have to do some homework :) [david@kablamm partition]$ rpm -qf /sbin/mkfs.ext3 e2fsprogs-1.41.9-5.fc12.i686 kernel ? Well, you can peruse the latest mainline kernel source: http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.6/linux-2.6.39.1.tar.bz2 Partitioning is done by mkfs variants. Nothing to do with the kernel. David no need to keep teasing the mouse .. :-) Nothing cares about cylinders on a hard drive after windows 95 (maybe windows 98) ... everything since then uses LBA so cylinders are completely irrelevant - its just a historical quirk. So fuggit about it .. .:-) -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Partition does not end on cylinder boundary
On 5 June 2011 12:21, Genes MailLists li...@sapience.com wrote: On 06/04/2011 10:15 PM, David wrote: On 5 June 2011 12:07, JD jd1...@gmail.com wrote: On 06/04/11 19:02, David wrote: On 5 June 2011 11:42, JDjd1...@gmail.com wrote: I think you can read the kernel source code as well as anyone. So you have to do some homework :) [david@kablamm partition]$ rpm -qf /sbin/mkfs.ext3 e2fsprogs-1.41.9-5.fc12.i686 kernel ? Well, you can peruse the latest mainline kernel source: http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.6/linux-2.6.39.1.tar.bz2 Partitioning is done by mkfs variants. Nothing to do with the kernel. David no need to keep teasing the mouse .. :-) Nothing cares about cylinders on a hard drive after windows 95 (maybe windows 98) ... everything since then uses LBA so cylinders are completely irrelevant - its just a historical quirk. So fuggit about it .. .:-) Awww, not teasing, fighting FUD about CHS! But yeah, agree, enuf :-) -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Partition does not end on cylinder boundary
On 06/04/11 19:15, David wrote: On 5 June 2011 12:07, JDjd1...@gmail.com wrote: On 06/04/11 19:02, David wrote: On 5 June 2011 11:42, JDjd1...@gmail.comwrote: I think you can read the kernel source code as well as anyone. So you have to do some homework :) [david@kablamm partition]$ rpm -qf /sbin/mkfs.ext3 e2fsprogs-1.41.9-5.fc12.i686 kernel ? Well, you can peruse the latest mainline kernel source: http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.6/linux-2.6.39.1.tar.bz2 Partitioning is done by mkfs variants. Nothing to do with the kernel. Read the filesystem code to understand why partitions must start and end at cylinder boundary :) -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Partition does not end on cylinder boundary
On 06/04/11 19:28, David wrote: On 5 June 2011 12:21, Genes MailListsli...@sapience.com wrote: On 06/04/2011 10:15 PM, David wrote: On 5 June 2011 12:07, JDjd1...@gmail.com wrote: On 06/04/11 19:02, David wrote: On 5 June 2011 11:42, JDjd1...@gmail.comwrote: I think you can read the kernel source code as well as anyone. So you have to do some homework :) [david@kablamm partition]$ rpm -qf /sbin/mkfs.ext3 e2fsprogs-1.41.9-5.fc12.i686 kernel ? Well, you can peruse the latest mainline kernel source: http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.6/linux-2.6.39.1.tar.bz2 Partitioning is done by mkfs variants. Nothing to do with the kernel. David no need to keep teasing the mouse .. :-) Nothing cares about cylinders on a hard drive after windows 95 (maybe windows 98) ... everything since then uses LBA so cylinders are completely irrelevant - its just a historical quirk. So fuggit about it .. .:-) Awww, not teasing, fighting FUD about CHS! But yeah, agree, enuf :-) Excerpts from Kernel code commentary: ext2/inode.c * Rules are: *+ if there is a block to the left of our position - allocate near it. *+ if pointer will live in indirect block - allocate near that block. *+ if pointer will live in inode - allocate in the same cylinder group. ext3/inode.c * Rules are: *+ if there is a block to the left of our position - allocate near it. *+ if pointer will live in indirect block - allocate near that block. *+ if pointer will live in inode - allocate in the same * cylinder group. ext4/inode.c * Rules are: *+ if there is a block to the left of our position - allocate near it. *+ if pointer will live in indirect block - allocate near that block. *+ if pointer will live in inode - allocate in the same * cylinder group. Blocks are mapped (or organized in) cylinder groups. Or, you can just ignore that and fuggit about it :) -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
