Re: Posting to the Fedora message boards

2016-06-02 Thread Tim
On Tue, 2016-05-31 at 14:23 -0400, Tom Horsley wrote:
> I would have thought it was just css setup by whoever runs the
> hyperkitty web site to make it looks like whatever they want.
> If it is hard coded and not css, then hyperkitty needs a much
>  much bigger enhancement request :-).

Could be handy if it recognised  & , and  and 
tags in plain text message, so writers could mark-up their samples.
Even to email readers sending and receiving plain text, marking up
special content helps to identify where it begins and ends.


-- 
tim@localhost ~]$ uname -rsvp

Linux 3.19.8-100.fc20.i686 #1 SMP Tue May 12 17:42:35 UTC 2015 i686

All mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted, there is no point trying
to privately email me, I will only read messages posted to the public lists.

George Orwell's '1984' was supposed to be a warning against tyranny, not
a set of instructions for supposedly democratic governments.
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Re: Posting to the Fedora message boards

2016-05-31 Thread Mike Wright

On 05/31/2016 11:23 AM, Tom Horsley wrote:

On Tue, 31 May 2016 12:11:40 -0400
Paul W. Frields wrote:


You might want to file an enhancement request for Hyperkitty to add a
feature for this.


I would have thought it was just css setup by whoever runs the
hyperkitty web site to make it looks like whatever they want.
If it is hard coded and not css, then hyperkitty needs a much
  much bigger enhancement request :-).


It is indeed css.  If you're comfortable with chrome's developer tools 
or firebug for firefox you need to find .email-body and add 
"font-family: monospace;".


If you'd prefer a Bookmarklet add this to your Bookmarks toolbar:

javascript:function loadJS(url,callback){var 
head=document.getElementsByTagName("head")[0],js=document.createElement("script"),done=false;js.src=url;js.onload=js.onreadystatechange=function(){if(!done&&(!this.readyState||this.readyState=="loaded"||this.readyState=="complete")){done=true;callback();js.onload=js.onreadystatechange=null;head.removeChild(js);}};head.appendChild(js);}loadJS("//code.jquery.com/jquery-2.2.4.js",function(){(function(){/***YOUR_CODE_FOLLOWS**/$('.email-body').css('font-family','monospace');/***YOUR_CODE_PRECEDES***/})()});


cut and paste that to an editor, remove the white space, then cut that 
and paste it to a bookmark and name it something like HyperKitty.


On click it loads jquery-2.2.4 and then uses that to add the css rule to 
the page.

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Re: Posting to the Fedora message boards

2016-05-31 Thread Tom Horsley
On Tue, 31 May 2016 12:11:40 -0400
Paul W. Frields wrote:

> You might want to file an enhancement request for Hyperkitty to add a
> feature for this.

I would have thought it was just css setup by whoever runs the
hyperkitty web site to make it looks like whatever they want.
If it is hard coded and not css, then hyperkitty needs a much
 much bigger enhancement request :-).
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Re: Posting to the Fedora message boards

2016-05-31 Thread Paul W. Frields
On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 09:51:23AM -0700, Mike Wright wrote:
> On 05/24/2016 09:46 AM, Tom Horsley wrote:
> > On Tue, 24 May 2016 10:53:01 -0400
> > Paul W. Frields wrote:
> > 
> > > later we hope to give
> > > you the option to see more of what you like, and less of what you
> > > don't.
> > 
> > Like maybe getting the plain text message bodies rendered in fixed width
> > fonts so code snippits and such come out displayed reasonably?
> 
> +1 - especially since they may contain code or command examples

You might want to file an enhancement request for Hyperkitty to add a
feature for this.  Maybe it could be a Javascript-y type feature,
where you can click to see the message in monospace text.  Monospace
isn't as readable in the general case, so it probably shouldn't be the
default.

File issues here: --> https://gitlab.com/mailman/hyperkitty/issues

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Re: Posting to the Fedora message boards

2016-05-25 Thread Tim
Allegedly, on or about 25 May 2016, Stephen Morris sent:
> How do you work around the stated functionality of imap, that if you 
> have a mail sitting in your inbox in Tbird and that mail is deleted
> from the server mailbox it is automatically deleted from your Tbird
> inbox as well. When I mentioned to my isp's support that I wanted to
> retain old emails in my inbox and that functionality would not work
> for me, they told me if I wanted to do that then I would have to
> switch back to pop because I would not get it using Imap.? 

You won't, since that's not how IMAP is supposed to work.  But with the
right mail client you can set it to only show the last few days mail in
each folder.  The server has everything that you don't delete, you just
only *see* the most recent mail.

You have other options, that you could do with the appropriate software.
Such as moving so-many-days-old messages from your inbox to other
archiving folders, using automatic rules.

e.g. Using psuedo-code:  If mail is older than 7 days AND to
lists.fedoraproject.org move to fedora folder.

That lets you read through your inbox for new mail, and be able to
follow on-going threads, but not have a too-cluttered inbox.  If you
needed to see something older, you'd look through your archive folders.

-- 
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Linux 3.9.10-100.fc17.x86_64 #1 SMP Sun Jul 14 01:31:27 UTC 2013 x86_64

Boilerplate:  All mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted, there is
no point trying to privately email me, I only get to see the messages
posted to the mailing list.

Lucky for you I typed this, you'd never be able to read my handwriting.


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Re: Posting to the Fedora message boards

2016-05-24 Thread Ed Greshko
On 05/25/16 04:19, Stephen Morris wrote:

Yes, slightly off topic.  So, if you have additional questions feel free to 
make direct
contact.
>
> How do you configure Tbird for the way you use the mail service (different 
> retention
> periods on folders and only downloading mail you are interested in), as 
> relative to the
> retention period of mail on the remote server, the version of Tbird I am 
> using appears
> to only provide 1 setting relative to retention on the server which I have 
> set to 7
> days, rather than as I used to have it set to, to delete when downloaded (Are 
> you
> implementing it via folder level mail rules?). Experience also indicates that 
> this
> setting doesn't work properly anyway (I haven't determined yet whether this 
> failure was
> relative to imap or pop) as the mailbox at the isp's end retained mail that 
> was
> significantly older than than the retention period threshold. I also ran into 
> the issue
> when I switched to imap that for several days afterwards I got duplicate 
> emails in my
> Tbird inbox. My isp's support guys were unable to explain why, and also not 
> explain why
> it was the all the emails that were duplicated did not physically exist in 
> their mailbox
> and emails for the same days that were not duplicated still existed in their 
> mailbox.

The email retention policy is a function available in T-Bird.  It isn't an IMAP 
server
function.

Simply right-click on any folder and select "Properties".  One of the tabs will 
be
"Retention Policy" which you can set for each folder.

I have no problems with this feature.  Changes made to the policy may not have 
immediate
effect but can be "forced" by right-clicking on the folder and selecting 
"Compact".

When you have an issue with copies of the the same email appearing in a folder 
this is
normally resolved by going to the Properties of the folder and selecting 
"Repair Folder"
on the General Information tab.

>
> How do you work around the stated functionality of imap, that if you have a 
> mail sitting
> in your inbox in Tbird and that mail is deleted from the server mailbox it is
> automatically deleted from your Tbird inbox as well. When I mentioned to my 
> isp's
> support that I wanted to retain old emails in my inbox and that functionality 
> would not
> work for me, they told me if I wanted to do that then I would have to switch 
> back to pop
> because I would not get it using Imap.?
>
I don't have this problem since if I want to delete an email from my inbox or a 
folder I
actually want to delete it.  If I wanted to delete a message that was on the 
server but
retain a copy I would simply create a folder under "Local Folders" in T-Bird 
and copy/move
the email to that folder.

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Re: Posting to the Fedora message boards

2016-05-24 Thread Patrick O'Callaghan
On Wed, 2016-05-25 at 06:19 +1000, Stephen Morris wrote:
> How do you configure Tbird for the way you use the mail service 
> (different retention periods on folders and only downloading mail
> you 
> are interested in), as relative to the retention period of mail on
> the 
> remote server, the version of Tbird I am using appears to only
> provide 1 
> setting relative to retention on the server which I have set to 7
> days, 
> rather than as I used to have it set to, to delete when downloaded
> (Are 
> you implementing it via folder level mail rules?). Experience also 
> indicates that this setting doesn't work properly anyway (I haven't 
> determined yet whether this failure was relative to imap or pop) as
> the 
> mailbox at the isp's end retained mail that was significantly older
> than 
> than the retention period threshold. I also ran into the issue when
> I 
> switched to imap that for several days afterwards I got duplicate
> emails 
> in my Tbird inbox. My isp's support guys were unable to explain why,
> and 
> also not explain why it was the all the emails that were duplicated
> did 
> not physically exist in their mailbox and emails for the same days
> that 
> were not duplicated still existed in their mailbox.

I don't know why you're having this problem, but it has nothing to do
with IMAP per se. IMAP has no concept of a retention period. Looks like
your difficulties arise from something in your TBird configuration but
as I use Evolution I couldn't say what it is.

poc
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Re: Posting to the Fedora message boards

2016-05-24 Thread Stephen Morris

On 24/05/16 10:59, Ed Greshko wrote:

On 05/24/16 08:53, Ed Greshko wrote:


No.  I should have mentioned that I have a retention policy set for each list.  
Some for
30 days, some for 14.

Oh, the policy is set in my T-Bird client.   I don't think gmail itself offers 
this.

But since I use IMAP all clients I use see the same contents.

(Sorry to have left off that detail.  A bit distracted this AM)
Hi Ed, just to be a bit off topic here, I used Thunderbird as well, and 
as of the last couple of months, using Imap, mainly because of not being 
able to get pop to work when I upgraded my internet service from adsl to 
cable, and my isp not understanding that when you connect your cable 
service to a different domain to what their adsl services are connected 
to, and they create a userid in the new domain of the same name as the 
orginal one, that in Tbird to continue to use the original mailbox you 
have to add the domain name to your login credentials. Using Imap does 
not alleviate this, I just found this when I couldn't get Imap to work 
for the same reason, and the isp's support guys were of no help in 
identifying this.


How do you configure Tbird for the way you use the mail service 
(different retention periods on folders and only downloading mail you 
are interested in), as relative to the retention period of mail on the 
remote server, the version of Tbird I am using appears to only provide 1 
setting relative to retention on the server which I have set to 7 days, 
rather than as I used to have it set to, to delete when downloaded (Are 
you implementing it via folder level mail rules?). Experience also 
indicates that this setting doesn't work properly anyway (I haven't 
determined yet whether this failure was relative to imap or pop) as the 
mailbox at the isp's end retained mail that was significantly older than 
than the retention period threshold. I also ran into the issue when I 
switched to imap that for several days afterwards I got duplicate emails 
in my Tbird inbox. My isp's support guys were unable to explain why, and 
also not explain why it was the all the emails that were duplicated did 
not physically exist in their mailbox and emails for the same days that 
were not duplicated still existed in their mailbox.


How do you work around the stated functionality of imap, that if you 
have a mail sitting in your inbox in Tbird and that mail is deleted from 
the server mailbox it is automatically deleted from your Tbird inbox as 
well. When I mentioned to my isp's support that I wanted to retain old 
emails in my inbox and that functionality would not work for me, they 
told me if I wanted to do that then I would have to switch back to pop 
because I would not get it using Imap.?


regards,
Steve



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Re: Posting to the Fedora message boards

2016-05-24 Thread Mike Wright

On 05/24/2016 09:46 AM, Tom Horsley wrote:

On Tue, 24 May 2016 10:53:01 -0400
Paul W. Frields wrote:


later we hope to give
you the option to see more of what you like, and less of what you
don't.


Like maybe getting the plain text message bodies rendered in fixed width
fonts so code snippits and such come out displayed reasonably?


+1 - especially since they may contain code or command examples
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Re: Posting to the Fedora message boards

2016-05-24 Thread Tom Horsley
On Tue, 24 May 2016 10:53:01 -0400
Paul W. Frields wrote:

> later we hope to give
> you the option to see more of what you like, and less of what you
> don't.

Like maybe getting the plain text message bodies rendered in fixed width
fonts so code snippits and such come out displayed reasonably?
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Re: Posting to the Fedora message boards

2016-05-24 Thread Peter G.
Tim wrote:

> As far as I'm
> concerned, they're only of use for someone who wants to 
solve a
> particular problem, and not be part of any on-going 
participation.

I participate where I think my input could be useful, but Iǘe 
learned to stay out of conversations where the extent of my 
knowledge isn't going to add to the conversation. As such, 
aside from some newbie help and testing feedback, my use is 
primarily for problem-solving h/t

Yes, I think Hyperkitty has potential, PWF :-) I like the FAS 
account (I've had one for years, but there is getting to be a 
bit more that one can do with the login :-)
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Re: Posting to the Fedora message boards

2016-05-24 Thread Paul W. Frields
On Mon, May 23, 2016 at 07:56:28PM -, Peter Gueckel wrote:
> While a long-time user, I never liked getting all of the messages in
> my email box, considering that only 5% or so are relevant to me. The
> digest form has the additional problem of how to reply to a
> post. Then, I discovered Gmane a few years back.I was bothered
> somewhat by using a third party interface and, it seemed, that not
> 100% of the posts ever showed up, depending on who posted where. It
> has worked well for me, but I had to set up the news program,
> typically knode, which also took a fair bit of time. Nothing ever
> seemed satisfactory.
> 
> This morning I discovered Fedora's own web interface. I never even
> knew it existed!!! I think it could be the best solution
> yet... although sometimes it seems slow.

I'm assuming you mean Hyperkitty, for example via this very thread:
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/EMTHXHLEKP3KAAEX3433KKKINLZAW4WO/

> What have you found to be he easiest, most convenient, etc. method
> of accessing the message boards?

This really differs by person.  The great thing about Hyperkitty is it
doesn't change the use of email for those who prefer that old school
method.  In fact, I'm writing a response to you right now on Mutt, my
text based email client, where I read mail and compose replies.

But I could just as easily login to Hyperkitty, and compose a reply
there.  There are also ways to rank messages; later we hope to give
you the option to see more of what you like, and less of what you
don't.

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Re: Posting to the Fedora message boards

2016-05-24 Thread maderios

On 05/23/2016 09:56 PM, Peter Gueckel wrote:

What have you found to be he easiest, most convenient, etc. method of accessing 
the message boards?

Hi
I use gmail imap account with thunderbird, it works fine.

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Re: Posting to the Fedora message boards

2016-05-24 Thread Tim
On Mon, 2016-05-23 at 19:56 +, Peter Gueckel wrote:
> I discovered Gmane a few years back.I was bothered somewhat by using a
> third party interface and, it seemed, that not 100% of the posts ever
> showed up, depending on who posted where. It has worked well for me,
> but I had to set up the news program, typically knode, which also took
> a fair bit of time.

I can't see that setting up gmail and filtering is going to be any
*easier* than using a news client with a news server (like gmane).  But
it *may* be more practical, if it gives you a better searching ability.

For what it's worth, I always found usenet the most practical for the
kind of thing this mailing list does.  News clients tended to be geared
towards handling masses of mail (proper threading, auto purging,
ignoring, watching, etc), most mail clients are awful at it, and awful
at quoting.  And usenet doesn't require you to expose an email address
to abuse.

Websites are a pain, you can manage the odd one, but having to
separately log into several different websites to keep abreast of a
number of things is a major chore.  And you have to deal with designers
who like to continuously re-engineer the service.  As far as I'm
concerned, they're only of use for someone who wants to solve a
particular problem, and not be part of any on-going participation.


-- 
tim@localhost ~]$ uname -rsvp

Linux 3.19.8-100.fc20.i686 #1 SMP Tue May 12 17:42:35 UTC 2015 i686

All mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted, there is no point trying
to privately email me, I will only read messages posted to the public lists.

George Orwell's '1984' was supposed to be a warning against tyranny, not
a set of instructions for supposedly democratic governments.
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Re: Posting to the Fedora message boards

2016-05-24 Thread Patrick O'Callaghan
On Mon, 2016-05-23 at 18:23 -0600, Peter G.  wrote:
> I'll look into how IMAP might help me manage it all. Gmail 
> claims they 'do' mailing lists, so maybe there's a way to 
> make it do what I want.

Gmail don't do mailing lists in the sense we usually mean here. They
have something called Google Groups, which is fairly different.

That said, I access Gmail via IMAP and use Evolution to read my mailing
lists, which works fine.

poc
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Re: Posting to the Fedora message boards

2016-05-23 Thread Ed Greshko
On 05/24/16 08:53, Ed Greshko wrote:

> No.  I should have mentioned that I have a retention policy set for each 
> list.  Some for
> 30 days, some for 14.

Oh, the policy is set in my T-Bird client.   I don't think gmail itself offers 
this. 

But since I use IMAP all clients I use see the same contents.

(Sorry to have left off that detail.  A bit distracted this AM)

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Re: Posting to the Fedora message boards

2016-05-23 Thread Ed Greshko


On 05/24/16 08:44, Peter Gueckel wrote:
> That means you are storing the entire contents of all of the lists you read!?

No.  I should have mentioned that I have a retention policy set for each list.  
Some for
30 days, some for 14.

>
> Well, Google does say you never need to delete anything, don't they? ;-)

They say that...but I don't follow their "recommendation".  :-)


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Re: Posting to the Fedora message boards

2016-05-23 Thread Peter Gueckel
That means you are storing the entire contents of all of the lists you read!?

Well, Google does say you never need to delete anything, don't they? ;-)
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Re: Posting to the Fedora message boards

2016-05-23 Thread Ed Greshko
On 05/24/16 08:23, Peter G. wrote:

> I'll look into how IMAP might help me manage it all. Gmail 
> claims they 'do' mailing lists, so maybe there's a way to 
> make it do what I want.

I use the message filtering of gmail to put messages from mailing lists in their
individual folders which are labeled with the name of the list.  Then I simply 
access them
via IMAP capable email clients.  This way the lists are available no matter 
what platform
I'm using at the time.

I've used this method for *years* and it serves my needs.  YMMV.

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You're Welcome Zachary Quinto
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Re: Posting to the Fedora message boards

2016-05-23 Thread Peter G.
Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:

> What message boards? If you mean the mailing lists, then I 
use a mail
> client with IMAP (Evolution in my case).
> 
> poc

Mailing lists, I meant.

I was hoping someone knew of some super cool way of dealing 
with this dated messaging system.

I'll look into how IMAP might help me manage it all. Gmail 
claims they 'do' mailing lists, so maybe there's a way to 
make it do what I want.

Thanks :-)
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Re: Posting to the Fedora message boards

2016-05-23 Thread Patrick O'Callaghan
On Mon, 2016-05-23 at 19:56 +, Peter Gueckel wrote:
> While a long-time user, I never liked getting all of the messages in
> my email box, considering that only 5% or so are relevant to me. The
> digest form has the additional problem of how to reply to a post. 

Most digests are now in MIME format, so replying to a post is easy with
a modern mail client, while preserving threading.

However using digests isn't going to reduce the amount of mail you get.
It's really an obsolete method with little to recommend it any more.
Just subscribe normally and use filters. With IMAP you don't even need
to download the messages you aren't interested in.

> Then, I discovered Gmane a few years back.I was bothered somewhat by
> using a third party interface and, it seemed, that not 100% of the
> posts ever showed up, depending on who posted where. It has worked
> well for me, but I had to set up the news program, typically knode,
> which also took a fair bit of time. Nothing ever seemed satisfactory.
> 
> This morning I discovered Fedora's own web interface. I never even
> knew it existed!!! I think it could be the best solution yet...
> although sometimes it seems slow.

It didn't exist until fairly recently, and I find it clunky compared to
mail. YMMV of course.

> What have you found to be he easiest, most convenient, etc. method of
> accessing the message boards?

What message boards? If you mean the mailing lists, then I use a mail
client with IMAP (Evolution in my case).

poc
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