Re: Ugly Text
On 08/11/2010 11:59 PM, Christofer C. Bell wrote: On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 9:31 PM, Timignored_mail...@yahoo.com.au wrote: On Wed, 2010-08-11 at 17:34 -0700, Jonathan Ryshpan wrote: The link is: http://www.tnr.com/print/article/politics/76822/the-look-time That actually looks reasonably good, on screen, here. Though grey writing on white background can be a printing headache, as printers have to dither black ink to make grey, so you get fuzzy printing. But there may be an option to always print text in full black. The page looks absolutely perfect here, both in the main Firefox display and in Print Preview. That said, I do have the msttcore-fonts package installed. Could the reason it looks like garbage for the OP be simply that? Same here and I also have msttcore-fonts installed. FireFox v3.6.7 uname: 2.6.33.6-147.2.4.fc13.x86_64 roger wells msttcore-fonts-2.0-3.noarch -- Roger Wells, P.E. SAIC 221 Third St Newport, RI 02840 401-847-4210 (voice) 401-849-1585 (fax) roger.k.we...@saic.com -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Ugly Text
On 08/12/2010 12:30 PM, Roger K. Wells wrote: On 08/11/2010 11:59 PM, Christofer C. Bell wrote: snip That said, I do have the msttcore-fonts package installed. Could the reason it looks like garbage for the OP be simply that? Same here and I also have msttcore-fonts installed. FireFox v3.6.7 uname: 2.6.33.6-147.2.4.fc13.x86_64 i do not have msttcore-fonts installed and i get a good print preview. Firefox v3.0.19 running in 2.6.18-164.11.1.el5 -- peace out. tc,hago. g . in a free world without fences, who needs gates. ** help microsoft stamp out piracy - give linux to a friend today. ** to mess up a linux box, you need to work at it. to mess up an ms windows box, you just need to *look* at it. ** learn linux: 'Rute User's Tutorial and Exposition' http://rute.2038bug.com/index.html 'The Linux Documentation Project' http://www.tldp.org/ 'LDP HOWTO-index' http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/HOWTO-INDEX/index.html 'HowtoForge' http://howtoforge.com/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Ugly Text
On Wed, 2010-08-11 at 22:59 -0500, Christofer C. Bell wrote: On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 9:31 PM, Tim ignored_mail...@yahoo.com.au wrote: On Wed, 2010-08-11 at 17:34 -0700, Jonathan Ryshpan wrote: The link is: http://www.tnr.com/print/article/politics/76822/the-look-time That actually looks reasonably good, on screen, here. Though grey writing on white background can be a printing headache, as printers have to dither black ink to make grey, so you get fuzzy printing. But there may be an option to always print text in full black. The page looks absolutely perfect here, both in the main Firefox display and in Print Preview. That said, I do have the msttcore-fonts package installed. Could the reason it looks like garbage for the OP be simply that? msttcore-fonts-2.0-3.noarch I have installed this, and rendering for print is better, though still not quite perfect. jon -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Ugly Text
On 11/08/10 21:46, Jonathan Ryshpan wrote: Text to be printed by Firefox has disastrously bad text layout, and has had bad layout for years. An example is attached. The only way to get text well laid out is to copy it into a word processor (I use Open Office) and to print it out from there. Who else has noticed this? Is there a known cure, say by downloading fonts, or font layout tables? Thanks - jon You have not provided a link? -- Regards, Frank Murphy UTF_8 Encoded Friend of Fedora -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Ugly Text
On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 4:46 PM, Jonathan Ryshpan jonr...@pacbell.net wrote: Text to be printed by Firefox has disastrously bad text layout, and has had bad layout for years. An example is attached. The only way to get text well laid out is to copy it into a word processor (I use Open Office) and to print it out from there. Who else has noticed this? Is there a known cure, say by downloading fonts, or font layout tables? You've hit it.. It's often missing fonts that cause bad rendering. There are some web core font packages you can install that will improve it. You can also override the web page settings. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Ugly Text
There are some font packages that start with ttf (if I remember correctly) that fix this problem cleanly. On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 17:33:47 -0400 Kwan Lowe k...@digitalhermit.com wrote: On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 4:46 PM, Jonathan Ryshpan jonr...@pacbell.net wrote: Text to be printed by Firefox has disastrously bad text layout, and has had bad layout for years. An example is attached. The only way to get text well laid out is to copy it into a word processor (I use Open Office) and to print it out from there. Who else has noticed this? Is there a known cure, say by downloading fonts, or font layout tables? You've hit it.. It's often missing fonts that cause bad rendering. There are some web core font packages you can install that will improve it. You can also override the web page settings. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines -- Jonathan Beatty jonathan.bea...@gallaudet.edu -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Ugly Text
On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 01:46:02PM -0700, Jonathan Ryshpan wrote: Text to be printed by Firefox has disastrously bad text layout, and has had bad layout for years. An example is attached. The only way to get text well laid out is to copy it into a word processor (I use Open Office) and to print it out from there. Who else has noticed this? Is there a known cure, say by downloading fonts, or font layout tables? Thanks - jon Having not yet viewed your attached images, I need to ask: is it ugly characters/symbols, or is it the horrid layout? I have this ongoing pet peeve with firefox in which it will take a web page that looks one way, and re-renders it horribly for layout on the printer. often a page that fits compactly on the screen will come out of the printer as 3 separate pages with stuff spread out vertically that was in parallel on the screen. -- Fred Smith -- fre...@fcshome.stoneham.ma.us - For him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy--to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen. - Jude 1:24,25 (niv) - -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Ugly Text
On Wed, 2010-08-11 at 22:04 +0100, Frank Murphy wrote: On 11/08/10 21:46, Jonathan Ryshpan wrote: Text to be printed by Firefox has disastrously bad text layout, and has had bad layout for years. An example is attached. The only way to get text well laid out is to copy it into a word processor (I use Open Office) and to print it out from there. Who else has noticed this? Is there a known cure, say by downloading fonts, or font layout tables? You have not provided a link? Quite right. Sorry. The link is: http://www.tnr.com/print/article/politics/76822/the-look-time On Wed, 2010-08-11 at 16:54 -0400, Paul Cartwright wrote: just curious, why would you want to print a web page? I usually copy paste any web page info to a word processor, and save it as a text file, or just print then delete.. That saves printing all the stupid ads, etc, on the web page. Or am I missing something? Often the page doesn't have any such garbage on it, like the one linked to above. On Wed, 2010-08-11 at 14:01 -0700, JD wrote: Perhaps (I conjecture here) that the web page being viewed was created using Microsoft web tools which use features or attributes in the resulting web content, that FF simply does not know what to do with or implements them incorrectly. Perhaps MS is highjacking the web page standards in the same way they had tried to highjack java. Probably not. The page linked to is from The New Republic. I have similar problems printing from the NY Times. On Wed, 2010-08-11 at 17:33 -0400, Kwan Lowe wrote: You've hit it.. It's often missing fonts that cause bad rendering. There are some web core font packages you can install that will improve it. You can also override the web page settings. Are these the ttf.. packages mentioned below by JB? On Wed, 2010-08-11 at 17:06 -0500, Jonathan Beatty wrote: There are some font packages that start with ttf (if I remember correctly) that fix this problem cleanly. No useful looking packages starting ttf. Here's a list of all packages with ttf in their names: SDL_ttf.i686 SDL_ttf.x86_64 SDL_ttf-debuginfo.x86_64 SDL_ttf-devel.i686 SDL_ttf-devel.x86_64 baekmuk-ttf-dotum-fonts.noarch baekmuk-ttf-fonts-common.noarch baekmuk-ttf-fonts-ghostscript.noarch baekmuk-ttf-gulim-fonts.noarch baekmuk-ttf-hline-fonts.noarch batik-ttf2svg.noarch brettfont-fonts.noarch perl-Font-TTF.noarch scottfree.x86_64 ttf2pt1.x86_64 ttf2pt1-debuginfo.x86_64 Which do you think are the ones wanted? On Wed, 2010-08-11 at 20:14 -0400, fred smith wrote: Having not yet viewed your attached images, I need to ask: is it ugly characters/symbols, or is it the horrid layout? It's horrid layout. Thanks to all - jon -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Ugly Text
Ah, go ahead and ask in #fedora. They know the exact package names; I had this problem for the first fifteen minutes. They're font packages. Try searching for tahoma. On 8/11/10, Jonathan Ryshpan jonr...@pacbell.net wrote: On Wed, 2010-08-11 at 22:04 +0100, Frank Murphy wrote: On 11/08/10 21:46, Jonathan Ryshpan wrote: Text to be printed by Firefox has disastrously bad text layout, and has had bad layout for years. An example is attached. The only way to get text well laid out is to copy it into a word processor (I use Open Office) and to print it out from there. Who else has noticed this? Is there a known cure, say by downloading fonts, or font layout tables? You have not provided a link? Quite right. Sorry. The link is: http://www.tnr.com/print/article/politics/76822/the-look-time On Wed, 2010-08-11 at 16:54 -0400, Paul Cartwright wrote: just curious, why would you want to print a web page? I usually copy paste any web page info to a word processor, and save it as a text file, or just print then delete.. That saves printing all the stupid ads, etc, on the web page. Or am I missing something? Often the page doesn't have any such garbage on it, like the one linked to above. On Wed, 2010-08-11 at 14:01 -0700, JD wrote: Perhaps (I conjecture here) that the web page being viewed was created using Microsoft web tools which use features or attributes in the resulting web content, that FF simply does not know what to do with or implements them incorrectly. Perhaps MS is highjacking the web page standards in the same way they had tried to highjack java. Probably not. The page linked to is from The New Republic. I have similar problems printing from the NY Times. On Wed, 2010-08-11 at 17:33 -0400, Kwan Lowe wrote: You've hit it.. It's often missing fonts that cause bad rendering. There are some web core font packages you can install that will improve it. You can also override the web page settings. Are these the ttf.. packages mentioned below by JB? On Wed, 2010-08-11 at 17:06 -0500, Jonathan Beatty wrote: There are some font packages that start with ttf (if I remember correctly) that fix this problem cleanly. No useful looking packages starting ttf. Here's a list of all packages with ttf in their names: SDL_ttf.i686 SDL_ttf.x86_64 SDL_ttf-debuginfo.x86_64 SDL_ttf-devel.i686 SDL_ttf-devel.x86_64 baekmuk-ttf-dotum-fonts.noarch baekmuk-ttf-fonts-common.noarch baekmuk-ttf-fonts-ghostscript.noarch baekmuk-ttf-gulim-fonts.noarch baekmuk-ttf-hline-fonts.noarch batik-ttf2svg.noarch brettfont-fonts.noarch perl-Font-TTF.noarch scottfree.x86_64 ttf2pt1.x86_64 ttf2pt1-debuginfo.x86_64 Which do you think are the ones wanted? On Wed, 2010-08-11 at 20:14 -0400, fred smith wrote: Having not yet viewed your attached images, I need to ask: is it ugly characters/symbols, or is it the horrid layout? It's horrid layout. Thanks to all - jon -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Ugly Text
On Wed, 2010-08-11 at 13:46 -0700, Jonathan Ryshpan wrote: Text to be printed by Firefox has disastrously bad text layout, and has had bad layout for years. An example is attached. The only way to get text well laid out is to copy it into a word processor (I use Open Office) and to print it out from there. I can't say that I've noticed it being that terrible. Most browsers are rather poor at printing, and Firefox actually seemed a bit better. Of course it doesn't help that most pages were constructed for some stupid fixed layout on the screen, that doesn't really translate to paper (portrait versus landscape orientation, etc.). Usually, there's two problems: 1. The author is trying to specify a layout like a magazine using a technology (HTML) that's not meant for it. And often, choosing a layout that looks like a 9 year old designed it. Not to mention that the page is often constructed with badly broken HTML. 2. The author is specifying fonts that you do not have, and your system is using poor substitutions. Fixing the first problem tends to involve doing what you've done (use something else to fix up the page). Fixing the second one can be as simple as installing more fonts. I've tried installing the Microsoft fonts, in the past, and that hasn't always been a good idea. Some of them just look bad. More recently, I went with installing the Liberation fonts. They're designed as replacements for the Microsoft fonts, having the same metrics as them (so they fit the space), but not being identical in looks (so they don't look crap). That tends to make most pages look good. Or, at least, better, since the fonts designed for low resolution screens are different than those designed to look good on high resolution printers. Printing screen fonts often looks like everything's been done in bold type. -- [...@localhost ~]$ uname -r 2.6.27.25-78.2.56.fc9.i686 Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I read messages from the public lists. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Ugly Text
On Wed, 2010-08-11 at 17:34 -0700, Jonathan Ryshpan wrote:
The link is:
http://www.tnr.com/print/article/politics/76822/the-look-time
That actually looks reasonably good, on screen, here. Though grey
writing on white background can be a printing headache, as printers have
to dither black ink to make grey, so you get fuzzy printing. But there
may be an option to always print text in full black.
The print preview looks a bit worse, mostly for being a bad font.
Inter-character spacing seems too much, inter-word spacing is too
little, and inter-line space being too little, as well. The first two
being quite noticeably different between the original webpage and
print-preview, with the line spacing being something that becomes really
noticeable because of the other two issues.
For a permanent solution, I'd be inclined to try the following:
Locate your userContent-example.css file (inside the .mozilla directory,
in your home space). Read it, and create a new userContent.css file in
the same place. Put some overrides in for print media to use a font
that you find easy to read. Then restart the browser to use your CSS.
e.g. Start off with the following, and customise it.
@media print {
/*
Most printers impose margins already; and some
browsers do, too. Stop even more margins
being added to them. And reset some other
parameters for all elements.
*/
html, body {
margin: 0 !important;
padding: 0 !important;
color: black !important;
background: white !important;
}
/* Set all text to be this font, by default. */
* {
font-family: liberation-serif !important;
}
/*
Set some elements to use a different font, if you want,
for various types of headings.
*/
h1, h2, h3, h4, h5, th, caption, label, legend, dt
{font-family: liberation-sans !important;}
code, pre, tt {
font-family: monospace !important;
font-style: normal !important;
}
/*
Get rid of the underlining of links that you can't click on,
any more, because they're on paper.
*/
a {text-decoration: none !important;}
}
--
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Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I
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Re: Ugly Text
On Thu, 2010-08-12 at 11:32 +0930, Tim wrote: I can't say that I've noticed it being that terrible. Well, not for a long time (several years)... I do remember some rather stupid renderings, not dependent on font or webpage. e.g. 12'34 would print as 12 ' 34 -- [...@localhost ~]$ uname -r 2.6.27.25-78.2.56.fc9.i686 Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I read messages from the public lists. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Ugly Text
On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 9:31 PM, Tim ignored_mail...@yahoo.com.au wrote: On Wed, 2010-08-11 at 17:34 -0700, Jonathan Ryshpan wrote: The link is: http://www.tnr.com/print/article/politics/76822/the-look-time That actually looks reasonably good, on screen, here. Though grey writing on white background can be a printing headache, as printers have to dither black ink to make grey, so you get fuzzy printing. But there may be an option to always print text in full black. The page looks absolutely perfect here, both in the main Firefox display and in Print Preview. That said, I do have the msttcore-fonts package installed. Could the reason it looks like garbage for the OP be simply that? msttcore-fonts-2.0-3.noarch -- Chris -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Ugly Text
On Wed, 2010-08-11 at 22:59 -0500, Christofer C. Bell wrote: I do have the msttcore-fonts package installed. Could the reason it looks like garbage for the OP be simply that? Quite likely. In the absence of the requested font, the system will try to find a replacement. That may be done by name matching, or you may configure a list. Some automatically chosen replacements might look bad, because they're not intended as a general body font (e.g. they're a heading font), or their a bitmap at a different size. Most fonts look good at certain sizes, but not so good when you go beyond that, if you simply scale them up or down. Scaling bitmaps is going to be awful. -- [...@localhost ~]$ uname -r 2.6.27.25-78.2.56.fc9.i686 Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I read messages from the public lists. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
