Re: Upgrading to F16 Beta
On 10 October 2011 04:07, Fernando Cassia fcas...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Oct 9, 2011 at 22:48, Craig White craigwh...@azapple.com wrote: Considering that Rahul is a tireless ambassador for Fedora and puts up with stupid comments like the above I apologize. Let me rephrase it in a more civilized manner, then: I strongly think that people in charge of a FOSS project saying that there is not a need for ready-made scripts that solve common problems is ´not needed´ hurts these FOSS projects more than they help. Why? Because I think it reverses the burden of proof, that people advocating such scripts which would result in an easier experience for end users, end up having to defend their idea. Comments like Rahul just in the end maintain the status quo, when he could just say ok, why don´t you do such a script and I´ll help it become a part of the distro. Fine now?. That´s the thoughts that crossed my mind before emotion kicked in and I wrote the previous comment. You must have missed Rahul's email then: You dont need any scripts. If you upgrade, the previous settings will be preserved and there is no need to change unless you want to. In any case, writing these scripts is not release engineering's job. If needed, it should be part of something like preupgrade. Everyone is welcome to volunteer and get it done. This seems to be a bizarre game of consequences played out over email -- imalone -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Upgrading to F16 Beta
On Mon, 2011-10-10 at 00:07 -0300, Fernando Cassia wrote: On Sun, Oct 9, 2011 at 22:48, Craig White craigwh...@azapple.com wrote: Considering that Rahul is a tireless ambassador for Fedora and puts up with stupid comments like the above I apologize. Let me rephrase it in a more civilized manner, then: I strongly think that people in charge of a FOSS project saying that there is not a need for ready-made scripts that solve common problems is ´not needed´ hurts these FOSS projects more than they help. Why? Because I think it reverses the burden of proof, that people advocating such scripts which would result in an easier experience for end users, end up having to defend their idea. Comments like Rahul just in the end maintain the status quo, when he could just say ok, why don´t you do such a script and I´ll help it become a part of the distro. Fine now?. That´s the thoughts that crossed my mind before emotion kicked in and I wrote the previous comment. Fedora has a mechanism called pre-upgrade and that is where all of the energy is directed for the purposes of upgrading in a live manner. The notion that you piled onto was about using yum for a live upgrade and if someone wants to somehow script that, by all means they should go for it but the project itself already has a mechanism. It seems that for the second time in as many weeks, you want to draw some illogical conclusion as if a particular topic provides some a priori proof about what is missing in FOSS and it seems obvious to me that some people are content to curse the darkness and some people light candles and you seem to want to fall into the former and not the latter. The real power of FOSS is about people who recognize a need and they fill it rather than waiting around for someone else to do the work. Craig -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Upgrading to F16 Beta
On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 07:11, Craig White craigwh...@azapple.com wrote: The real power of FOSS is about people who recognize a need and they fill it rather than waiting around for someone else to do the work. I don´t have the time (or health for that matter) to devote to any large-scale software project. I´m just saying what I observe: that Linux needs more BUILT-IN scripts in distros to solve common problems, and less cut and paste this blob of instructions to your shell *solution ´recipes´* that could be saved as a script with a helpful, human-readable name that states its function. And thanks for the clarification, yes I missed the part about Fedora having a built-in mechanism that fits the solution the OP asked for. My point still stands... look around on any Ubuntu or Fedora forum and you´ll see common questions answered by here´s how to (usually involves installing some propietary drivers to get some hardware to work, or obtain some system info or install some missing component, restore default configs, etc)... paste this into your terminal as root But don´t take my word for it: Proof: Google search: (Copy and paste this into a shell site: fedoraforum) http://ho.io/p9jv 5,890 results (Copy and paste this site: UbuntuForums.org) http://ho.io/p9jw 29,800 results copy and paste this linux terminal site:blogspot.com http://ho.io/p9jx 191,000 results From the trivial how to identify your sound card to how to install the speedtouch adsl modem passing thru how to reset and respawn gnome panels... all tutorials involve opening a shell and cutting and pasting a blob of commands, -even if only one or two but with a given set of switches and parameters to achieve a certain function). The techie would like to understand what is going on, so that´s good for him to see the certain incantation of a single comand or series of commands... The end user on the other hand just wants a solution. So why not provide a solution in the form of a script?. That´s my observation. Too many cut and paste this responses. Too few scripts included with distros. To take one example, I found a user asking on how to reset gnome panels. The answer: --- Code: gconftool --recursive-unset /apps/panel killall gnome-panel your panels should then reset , and respawn. Should fix most issues. --- Then bloody hell why isn´t this coded as gnome-panels-reset.sh and placed in the path?. Then next time someone asks about this the answer could be a simple run gnome-panels-reset Am I to blame for not doing the scripts repository or Fedora project myself? Are you shooting the messenger? I´m just giving you an observation, now do whatever you want with it, ignore it, or do something about it if you believe my reasoning has merit. Or perhaps there is already an official Fedora-help-scripts effort going on. Is there? In that case my apologies in advance. If not, then, well, I see this as an opportunity. OK, here´s now a place to discuss this... https://sourceforge.net/p/linhelpscripts/ https://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/admin/linhelpscripts-discuss I should begin by inviting this guy. http://www.pixelbeat.org/scripts/ ;) FC -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Upgrading to F16 Beta
On 10 October 2011 12:57, Fernando Cassia fcas...@gmail.com wrote: To take one example, I found a user asking on how to reset gnome panels. The answer: --- Code: gconftool --recursive-unset /apps/panel killall gnome-panel your panels should then reset , and respawn. Should fix most issues. --- Then bloody hell why isn´t this coded as gnome-panels-reset.sh and placed in the path?. Then next time someone asks about this the answer could be a simple run gnome-panels-reset Think about what happens if you do this: the problem still exists, you still have to google or ask on a forum, you just get a shorter string to copy and paste. If it's really needed permanently that's one thing, but in most cases these kind of commands are to work round a particular issue in not always the best way and usually point to something that should be fixed somewhere else. -- imalone -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Upgrading to F16 Beta
On 10/10/2011 05:27 PM, Fernando Cassia wrote: On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 07:11, Craig White craigwh...@azapple.com wrote: The real power of FOSS is about people who recognize a need and they fill it rather than waiting around for someone else to do the work. I don´t have the time (or health for that matter) to devote to any large-scale software project. Yes, I am sure you are a busy person but is that a excuse for insulting me gratuitously in a mailing list without reading the thread entirely and understanding what I had posted at all? I don't think so. Rahul -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Upgrading to F16 Beta
On Sat, Oct 8, 2011 at 13:29, JD jd1...@gmail.com wrote: Right. Newbs and non-techies need scripts. User-friendly, they´ve heard of it. And I don´t mean the comic user-friendly.org Even IBM learned a thing or two in the transition from the business-centric OS/2 2.x to OS/2 Warp... hence scripts for common taks were included like rebuild.cmd to rebuild desktop icons in case of mess up or setvga.cmd to switch back to vga mode and drivers from the command line. Last I knew there was no such script to accomplish such mundane task in x.org (last time I needed to do that, which was a long time ago). But I´m getting older and I don´t feel the need to argue. Those that do not learn from past mistakes are doomed to repeat ´em.. FC -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Upgrading to F16 Beta
On Sat, Oct 8, 2011 at 19:49, Rahul Sundaram methe...@gmail.com wrote: No. it doesn't need to be a script. There is no technical reason it should be. Rahul Keep reasoning like this. Microsoft needs more people like you, FC -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Upgrading to F16 Beta
On Sun, 2011-10-09 at 06:35 -0300, Fernando Cassia wrote: On Sat, Oct 8, 2011 at 19:49, Rahul Sundaram methe...@gmail.com wrote: No. it doesn't need to be a script. There is no technical reason it should be. Rahul Keep reasoning like this. Microsoft needs more people like you, that you should equate an opinion to anything remotely related to Microsoft says nothing about Rahul but loads about Fernando's logic. Considering that Rahul is a tireless ambassador for Fedora and puts up with stupid comments like the above is exactly what Fedora needs more of and less of people who only see things a lens of 'us and them'. Craig -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Upgrading to F16 Beta
On Sun, Oct 9, 2011 at 22:48, Craig White craigwh...@azapple.com wrote: Considering that Rahul is a tireless ambassador for Fedora and puts up with stupid comments like the above I apologize. Let me rephrase it in a more civilized manner, then: I strongly think that people in charge of a FOSS project saying that there is not a need for ready-made scripts that solve common problems is ´not needed´ hurts these FOSS projects more than they help. Why? Because I think it reverses the burden of proof, that people advocating such scripts which would result in an easier experience for end users, end up having to defend their idea. Comments like Rahul just in the end maintain the status quo, when he could just say ok, why don´t you do such a script and I´ll help it become a part of the distro. Fine now?. That´s the thoughts that crossed my mind before emotion kicked in and I wrote the previous comment. FC -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Upgrading to F16 Beta
On 10/07/2011 03:21 PM, Fernando Cassia wrote: On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 07:42, JDjd1...@gmail.com wrote: I vote for an upgrade script for all the steps suggested on http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Upgrading_Fedora_using_yum Wow, progress being made!. I remember suggesting here that the Linux community should embrace scripts, instead of posting howto recipes that the users then have to cut and paste, and got some string opinions thrown at me. ;) This example is just what I meant... more scripts, less howtos please. :) +1 FC Right. Newbs and non-techies need scripts. Of course no one is forcing the techies to use them :) -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Upgrading to F16 Beta
On 10/07/2011 03:21 PM, Fernando Cassia wrote: On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 07:42, JDjd1...@gmail.com wrote: I vote for an upgrade script for all the steps suggested on http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Upgrading_Fedora_using_yum Wow, progress being made!. I remember suggesting here that the Linux community should embrace scripts, instead of posting howto recipes that the users then have to cut and paste, and got some string opinions thrown at me. ;) This example is just what I meant... more scripts, less howtos please. :) +1 FC OK - here I report what happened when I tried to follow the instructions at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Upgrading_Fedora_using_yum to perform a live upgrade. 0. ran all the steps specified on the URL. 1. running yum to do distro-sync failed to resolve conflicts with several of the existing fc14 packages. 2. yum update failed for the same reason. Conclusion: F16 Beta not ready for live upgrades and/or I just have too many packages installed (more than 4000). So, I restored back from saved partition image and rebooted back to F14. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Upgrading to F16 Beta
On 10/07/2011 02:47 PM, JD wrote: Seems to me that the upgrade process itself should be better scripted on the release DVD/CD to take care of such problems, including cleaning up of orphaned packages, and synching of packages. Such a script would be a great help to newbs and non-techies. I hope someone on the fedoraproject's release engineering team notices this post. You dont need any scripts. If you upgrade, the previous settings will be preserved and there is no need to change unless you want to. In any case, writing these scripts is not release engineering's job. If needed, it should be part of something like preupgrade. Everyone is welcome to volunteer and get it done. Rahul -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Upgrading to F16 Beta
On 10/08/2011 01:13 PM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: On 10/07/2011 02:47 PM, JD wrote: Seems to me that the upgrade process itself should be better scripted on the release DVD/CD to take care of such problems, including cleaning up of orphaned packages, and synching of packages. Such a script would be a great help to newbs and non-techies. I hope someone on the fedoraproject's release engineering team notices this post. You dont need any scripts. If you upgrade, the previous settings will be preserved and there is no need to change unless you want to. In any case, writing these scripts is not release engineering's job. If needed, it should be part of something like preupgrade. Everyone is welcome to volunteer and get it done. Rahul I was addressing a live upgrade. A live upgrade does indeed need to be a script so that newbs and non-techies will be able to perform without having to read a how-to procedure and make accidental mistakes, no matter who creates it and submits it for inclusion in the repos. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Upgrading to F16 Beta
On 10/09/2011 02:52 AM, JD wrote: I was addressing a live upgrade. A live upgrade does indeed need to be a script so that newbs and non-techies will be able to perform without having to read a how-to procedure and make accidental mistakes, no matter who creates it and submits it for inclusion in the repos. No. it doesn't need to be a script. There is no technical reason it should be. Rahul -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Upgrading to F16 Beta
On 10/08/2011 03:49 PM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: On 10/09/2011 02:52 AM, JD wrote: I was addressing a live upgrade. A live upgrade does indeed need to be a script so that newbs and non-techies will be able to perform without having to read a how-to procedure and make accidental mistakes, no matter who creates it and submits it for inclusion in the repos. No. it doesn't need to be a script. There is no technical reason it should be. Rahul But there is every reason to make the live upgrade of fedora as user friendly as possible. Your opinion sounds rather insensitive to newbs and non-techies, who would like to perform such a live upgrade. Clearly, Fedora needs more people who are willing to address this issue to give fedora a wider appeal and make it more user friendly. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Upgrading to F16 Beta
On 10/09/2011 04:26 AM, JD wrote: But there is every reason to make the live upgrade of fedora as user friendly as possible. Your opinion sounds rather insensitive to newbs and non-techies, who would like to perform such a live upgrade. Clearly, Fedora needs more people who are willing to address this issue to give fedora a wider appeal and make it more user friendly. You haven't given any single reason why it should be a script. What exactly does such a live upgrade do that preupgrade doesn't and why can't be it be a part of preupgrade? Rahul -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Upgrading to F16 Beta
On 10/08/2011 04:09 PM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: On 10/09/2011 04:26 AM, JD wrote: But there is every reason to make the live upgrade of fedora as user friendly as possible. Your opinion sounds rather insensitive to newbs and non-techies, who would like to perform such a live upgrade. Clearly, Fedora needs more people who are willing to address this issue to give fedora a wider appeal and make it more user friendly. You haven't given any single reason why it should be a script. What exactly does such a live upgrade do that preupgrade doesn't and why can't be it be a part of preupgrade? Rahul Well, for one, I have tried pre-upgrade and it simply did not yield the expected result - system was left with many unresolved conflicts. Also, a good live upgrade requires just one reboot and the machine is then running the new version. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Upgrading to F16 Beta
On Sat, 2011-10-08 at 17:49 -0700, JD wrote: On 10/08/2011 04:09 PM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: You haven't given any single reason why it should be a script. What exactly does such a live upgrade do that preupgrade doesn't and why can't be it be a part of preupgrade? Rahul Well, for one, I have tried pre-upgrade and it simply did not yield the expected result - system was left with many unresolved conflicts. Also, a good live upgrade requires just one reboot and the machine is then running the new version. of course you made a bug report so you could help fix whatever didn't work in pre-upgrade so it was fixed right? Craig -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Upgrading to F16 Beta
On Thu, Oct 06, 2011 at 13:13:32 -0700, JD jd1...@gmail.com wrote: Besides backing up the system first, before attempting this, is it possible to fully upgrade to F16 while booted into current F14? In theory. You will probably need to do some fooling around with dropped packages that may block updates. The base procedure is to do yum update -y --releasever=16 fedora-release yum update -y If you have a kitchen sink install, probably the update will fail or just not update a lot of packages. Typically you need to remove some old packages and try again. Eventually you want to run yum distro-sync to catch packages that have a higher NVR in F14 than F16. I don't like to start with that, because the choices yum distro-sync makes for trying to sync things up is often not what I want when doing an upgrade. Once things are pretty much there it is nice to help clean things up. Afterwards you'll want to run package-cleanup --orphans to find orphaned packages and then decide how you want to handle them. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Upgrading to F16 Beta
JD wrote: Besides backing up the system first, before attempting this, is it possible to fully upgrade to F16 while booted into current F14? If you are going to try it, I would recommend that you familiarize yourself with how to change the UID and GID of the users on your computer. Your old account will have been 500:500, but on Fedora 16 it will be 1000:1000. I believe you should change your UID/GID before you upgrade. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Upgrading to F16 Beta
On 10/07/2011 10:30 AM, Peter Gueckel wrote: JD wrote: Besides backing up the system first, before attempting this, is it possible to fully upgrade to F16 while booted into current F14? If you are going to try it, I would recommend that you familiarize yourself with how to change the UID and GID of the users on your computer. Your old account will have been 500:500, but on Fedora 16 it will be 1000:1000. I believe you should change your UID/GID before you upgrade. Thanx. A good point. I wish the upgrade process would actually prompt the user for performing such steps. Seems to me that the upgrade process itself should be better scripted on the release DVD/CD to take care of such problems, including cleaning up of orphaned packages, and synching of packages. Such a script would be a great help to newbs and non-techies. I hope someone on the fedoraproject's release engineering team notices this post. Cheers, JD -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Upgrading to F16 Beta
On Fri, Oct 07, 2011 at 11:30:18 -0600, Peter Gueckel pguec...@gmail.com wrote: JD wrote: Besides backing up the system first, before attempting this, is it possible to fully upgrade to F16 while booted into current F14? If you are going to try it, I would recommend that you familiarize yourself with how to change the UID and GID of the users on your computer. Your old account will have been 500:500, but on Fedora 16 it will be 1000:1000. I believe you should change your UID/GID before you upgrade. The uids don't get changed. I did have some problems when this was changed in rawhide, as it replaced /etc/login.defs that was then used by gdm when displaying the login list and my account wasn't listed. But later machines that I upgraded to F16 didn't run into that problem. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Upgrading to F16 Beta
On 10/07/2011 02:17 AM, JD wrote: Thanx. A good point. I wish the upgrade process would actually prompt the user for performing such steps. Even better would be for the upgrade process to offer to do this for the user so that people wouldn't have to worry about getting it right. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Upgrading to F16 Beta
On 10/7/2011 11:25 AM, Joe Zeff wrote: On 10/07/2011 02:17 AM, JD wrote: Thanx. A good point. I wish the upgrade process would actually prompt the user for performing such steps. Even better would be for the upgrade process to offer to do this for the user so that people wouldn't have to worry about getting it right. Part of me is wary of trying to automate this process as I trust people to get it right more than a generic script(s). Maybe tools to do parts of the task that can be safely isolated, but not the whole shebang. Given this thread, I intend to manually do it on my F14 before going to F16 so I can make sure I have everything right before upgrading. A bit more work? Probably. But worth it in my opinion -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Upgrading to F16 Beta
On 10/07/2011 11:53 AM, Paul Allen Newell wrote: On 10/7/2011 11:25 AM, Joe Zeff wrote: On 10/07/2011 02:17 AM, JD wrote: Thanx. A good point. I wish the upgrade process would actually prompt the user for performing such steps. Even better would be for the upgrade process to offer to do this for the user so that people wouldn't have to worry about getting it right. Part of me is wary of trying to automate this process as I trust people to get it right more than a generic script(s). Maybe tools to do parts of the task that can be safely isolated, but not the whole shebang. Given this thread, I intend to manually do it on my F14 before going to F16 so I can make sure I have everything right before upgrading. A bit more work? Probably. But worth it in my opinion The gist of all this is that non-techies and newbs have no knowledge of such things and this makes Fedora (and perhaps all distros) rather difficult to upgrade. A script to perform the upgrade would be a great help to automate the process. The suggestion that the script would/might get it wrong, while you would/might get it right, is a a mater of personal preference. I vote for an upgrade script for all the steps suggested on http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Upgrading_Fedora_using_yum -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Upgrading to F16 Beta
On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 3:42 AM, JD jd1...@gmail.com wrote: On 10/07/2011 11:53 AM, Paul Allen Newell wrote: On 10/7/2011 11:25 AM, Joe Zeff wrote: On 10/07/2011 02:17 AM, JD wrote: Thanx. A good point. I wish the upgrade process would actually prompt the user for performing such steps. Even better would be for the upgrade process to offer to do this for the user so that people wouldn't have to worry about getting it right. Part of me is wary of trying to automate this process as I trust people to get it right more than a generic script(s). Maybe tools to do parts of the task that can be safely isolated, but not the whole shebang. Given this thread, I intend to manually do it on my F14 before going to F16 so I can make sure I have everything right before upgrading. A bit more work? Probably. But worth it in my opinion The gist of all this is that non-techies and newbs have no knowledge of such things and this makes Fedora (and perhaps all distros) rather difficult to upgrade. A script to perform the upgrade would be a great help to automate the process. The suggestion that the script would/might get it wrong, while you would/might get it right, is a a mater of personal preference. I vote for an upgrade script for all the steps suggested on http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Upgrading_Fedora_using_yum Non-techies and newbs really should be using preupgrade instead of trying to do a live upgrade. It saves countless headaches. -T.C. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Upgrading to F16 Beta
On 10/07/2011 02:32 PM, T.C. Hollingsworth wrote: On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 3:42 AM, JDjd1...@gmail.com wrote: On 10/07/2011 11:53 AM, Paul Allen Newell wrote: On 10/7/2011 11:25 AM, Joe Zeff wrote: On 10/07/2011 02:17 AM, JD wrote: Thanx. A good point. I wish the upgrade process would actually prompt the user for performing such steps. Even better would be for the upgrade process to offer to do this for the user so that people wouldn't have to worry about getting it right. Part of me is wary of trying to automate this process as I trust people to get it right more than a generic script(s). Maybe tools to do parts of the task that can be safely isolated, but not the whole shebang. Given this thread, I intend to manually do it on my F14 before going to F16 so I can make sure I have everything right before upgrading. A bit more work? Probably. But worth it in my opinion The gist of all this is that non-techies and newbs have no knowledge of such things and this makes Fedora (and perhaps all distros) rather difficult to upgrade. A script to perform the upgrade would be a great help to automate the process. The suggestion that the script would/might get it wrong, while you would/might get it right, is a a mater of personal preference. I vote for an upgrade script for all the steps suggested on http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Upgrading_Fedora_using_yum Non-techies and newbs really should be using preupgrade instead of trying to do a live upgrade. It saves countless headaches. -T.C. Pre-upgrade is not without it's own headaches. Furthermore, it does not alleviate the manual steps outlined in http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Upgrading_Fedora_using_yum that non-techies and newbs will be required to undertake, such as deleting the leaves (orphans), and running synch ... etc. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: Upgrading to F16 Beta
On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 07:42, JD jd1...@gmail.com wrote: I vote for an upgrade script for all the steps suggested on http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Upgrading_Fedora_using_yum Wow, progress being made!. I remember suggesting here that the Linux community should embrace scripts, instead of posting howto recipes that the users then have to cut and paste, and got some string opinions thrown at me. ;) This example is just what I meant... more scripts, less howtos please. :) +1 FC -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
