Re: fedup: it's full of stars
El lun, 21-01-2013 a las 10:01 +0100, Roberto Ragusa escribió: > On 01/18/2013 11:57 AM, Wolfgang S. Rupprecht wrote: > > > > I assume that there is a human-factors study that indicates that > > non-technical users don't like to be reminded of how complicated things > > really are under the hood. At least that is why I thought such cover-up > > screens exist. > > Could we split the screen and have system messages in one part and > happy dancing puppies in the other part? > So users can concentrate their attention according to their preference. > > -- >Roberto Ragusamail at robertoragusa.it LOL! I like it very much. Cheers, Lailah -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: fedup: it's full of stars
On 01/21/2013 01:26 PM, Ian Malone wrote: On 21 January 2013 15:32, Tim wrote: Wolfgang S. Rupprecht: I assume that there is a human-factors study that indicates that non-technical users don't like to be reminded of how complicated things really are under the hood. At least that is why I thought such cover-up screens exist. I assumed that it's just stupidly copying Windows, in a monkey-see, monkey-do fashion. As seems to be the current trend of programmers wanting a free version of Windows, rather than an alternative OS. And I assumed it's a user-expectations thing. People expect a OS to look 'professional', if it starts up with rows of text it can look unfriendly and re-enforce the 'geeks-only' image. Though really I'm guessing and it may not be the reason. Would this be considered a "preference"?.since the OS actually works...does it matter if there's a splash screen or text scrolling up through the screen upon bootup?I've never really paid attention to the splash screens that muchI much prefer to keep it all "quiet" and just have a black screen, some people prefer to "see" what's going on while the machine is booting upothers want a pretty animation.I guess that's all moot hmmm? EGO II -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: fedup: it's full of stars
On 21 January 2013 15:32, Tim wrote: > Wolfgang S. Rupprecht: >>> I assume that there is a human-factors study that indicates that >>> non-technical users don't like to be reminded of how complicated things >>> really are under the hood. At least that is why I thought such cover-up >>> screens exist. > > I assumed that it's just stupidly copying Windows, in a monkey-see, > monkey-do fashion. As seems to be the current trend of programmers > wanting a free version of Windows, rather than an alternative OS. > And I assumed it's a user-expectations thing. People expect a OS to look 'professional', if it starts up with rows of text it can look unfriendly and re-enforce the 'geeks-only' image. Though really I'm guessing and it may not be the reason. -- imalone http://ibmalone.blogspot.co.uk -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: fedup: it's full of stars
Wolfgang S. Rupprecht: >> I assume that there is a human-factors study that indicates that >> non-technical users don't like to be reminded of how complicated things >> really are under the hood. At least that is why I thought such cover-up >> screens exist. I assumed that it's just stupidly copying Windows, in a monkey-see, monkey-do fashion. As seems to be the current trend of programmers wanting a free version of Windows, rather than an alternative OS. Roberto Ragusa: > Could we split the screen and have system messages in one part and > happy dancing puppies in the other part? > So users can concentrate their attention according to their preference. Needs "blinken lights." (That's not an application, but and old school notice.) -- [tim@localhost ~]$ uname -r 2.6.27.25-78.2.56.fc9.i686 Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I read messages from the public lists. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: fedup: it's full of stars
On 01/18/2013 11:57 AM, Wolfgang S. Rupprecht wrote: > > I assume that there is a human-factors study that indicates that > non-technical users don't like to be reminded of how complicated things > really are under the hood. At least that is why I thought such cover-up > screens exist. Could we split the screen and have system messages in one part and happy dancing puppies in the other part? So users can concentrate their attention according to their preference. -- Roberto Ragusamail at robertoragusa.it -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: fedup: it's full of stars
On Thu, Jan 17, 2013 at 3:06 PM, Wolfgang S. Rupprecht wrote: > One of the laptops I'm trying to upgrade to f18/x86_64 from f17/x86_64 > is printing row after row of asterisks after it rebooted into the fedup > boot environment. Sounds to me like you've encountered https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=896010. I know Ian Weller and Wil Woods were investigating this one at FUDCon tonight. -Jared -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: fedup: it's full of stars
On 01/20/2013 08:51 PM, Reindl Harald wrote: Am 21.01.2013 02:26, schrieb Joe Zeff: That's always possible, of course. Most of the time, the posters are complaining that they don't understand the boot messages and they don't want to see them; all they want is the animation back. That's not to fault them; most computer users neither understand those messages nor need to. and they will never understand anything if all is hidden i also started years ago with linux and never minded at this time that i would some times work as devleoper and sysadmin i was interested and i loved to see what my system is doing if someone don't give a damn what his computer does he could aslo use closed source I agree with that! Although I'm not 100% competent with reading and understanding the messages I get from boot or from a system problem, I would rather see them than to have my computer just "not work" mysteriously without telling me WHY! At least with an error message I can "start" to try to figure it out but going to the place that error message points me to! EGO II -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: fedup: it's full of stars
Am 21.01.2013 02:26, schrieb Joe Zeff: > That's always possible, of course. Most of the time, the posters are > complaining that they don't understand the > boot messages and they don't want to see them; all they want is the animation > back. That's not to fault them; most > computer users neither understand those messages nor need to. and they will never understand anything if all is hidden i also started years ago with linux and never minded at this time that i would some times work as devleoper and sysadmin i was interested and i loved to see what my system is doing if someone don't give a damn what his computer does he could aslo use closed source signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: fedup: it's full of stars
On 01/20/2013 05:16 PM, Eddie G. O'Connor Jr. wrote: Not all of those complaints are about a simple animation, sometimes it becomes a matter of not wanting to risk losing some important settings and configuration files too...!! That's always possible, of course. Most of the time, the posters are complaining that they don't understand the boot messages and they don't want to see them; all they want is the animation back. That's not to fault them; most computer users neither understand those messages nor need to. All they want is a computer That Just Works and if they don't see the animation, they're (understandably) worried that somethings wrong. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: fedup: it's full of stars
On 01/18/2013 01:54 PM, Joe Zeff wrote: On 01/18/2013 05:03 AM, Tim wrote: On Fri, 2013-01-18 at 02:57 -0800, Wolfgang S. Rupprecht wrote: >I hate them too, but we probably aren't the intended audience. Which raises the question of what the hell is the thought process behind that? Are they creating a distro to suit the people actually using it, or for people who aren't using it? All I know is that there are regular complaints on fedoraforum.org from people who lost their pretty little animations during boot and want them back NOW. Not all of those complaints are about a simple animation, sometimes it becomes a matter of not wanting to risk losing some important settings and configuration files too...!! EGO II -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: fedup: it's full of stars
On 01/18/2013 05:03 AM, Tim wrote: On Fri, 2013-01-18 at 02:57 -0800, Wolfgang S. Rupprecht wrote: >I hate them too, but we probably aren't the intended audience. Which raises the question of what the hell is the thought process behind that? Are they creating a distro to suit the people actually using it, or for people who aren't using it? All I know is that there are regular complaints on fedoraforum.org from people who lost their pretty little animations during boot and want them back NOW. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: fedup: it's full of stars
On Fri, 2013-01-18 at 02:57 -0800, Wolfgang S. Rupprecht wrote: > I hate them too, but we probably aren't the intended audience. Which raises the question of what the hell is the thought process behind that? Are they creating a distro to suit the people actually using it, or for people who aren't using it? > I assume that there is a human-factors study that indicates that > non-technical users don't like to be reminded of how complicated > things really are under the hood. At least that is why I thought such > cover-up screens exist. Where you sit there staring at the computer wondering what it's doing, will it actually finish if I just wait a bit longer, or should hit reset and see if a reboot actually helps. -- [tim@localhost ~]$ uname -r 2.6.27.25-78.2.56.fc9.i686 Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I read messages from the public lists. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: fedup: it's full of stars
On 01/18/2013 04:06 AM, Wolfgang S. Rupprecht wrote: Joe Zeff writes: I must admit that your subject line gave me a major Stanley Kubrick moment. ;-) I had to get people to read the msg. Try turning up your speaker volume. Listen for a computer voice saying, "I'm sorry Wolfgang, I'm afraid I can't do that." -CB -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: fedup: it's full of stars
Reindl Harald writes: > and that is why in my opinion "rhgb quiet" is a dumb default > > you should never hit anything to see what is > going on with a proper free operating system I hate them too, but we probably aren't the intended audience. I assume that there is a human-factors study that indicates that non-technical users don't like to be reminded of how complicated things really are under the hood. At least that is why I thought such cover-up screens exist. -wolfgang -- g+: https://plus.google.com/114566345864337108516/about -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: fedup: it's full of stars
Phil Meyer writes: > Its a Plymouth bug, I think. Caused by hitting > ESC before Plymouth is ready for you to. :) It is confirmed. That is all it was for me too. I just hit too early. The second time around I just let it be and it upgraded all by itself. I suppose there is a wise saying in there about watched computers never upgrading. -wolfgang -- g+: https://plus.google.com/114566345864337108516/about -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: fedup: it's full of stars
I had the same problem and what I did was to disable plymouth entirely when upgrading. I edited the linux line in the System upgrade menu, removing the plymouth theme option (I can't recall its exact name). Then it ran flawless. Greetings, -- Jorge Martínez López http://www.jorgeml.net -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: fedup: it's full of stars
Am 18.01.2013 00:59, schrieb Wolfgang S. Rupprecht: >> Yes, happened to me. Its a Plymouth bug, I think. Caused by hitting >> ESC before Plymouth is ready for you to. :) > > Ah. That make sense. Thanks! That laptop is one of the two computers > here that still have "rhgb quiet" appended to the boot lines. I did hit > to see what is going on. and that is why in my opinion "rhgb quiet" is a dumb default you should never hit anything to see what is going on with a proper free operating system signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: fedup: it's full of stars
Phil Meyer writes: > On 01/17/2013 02:06 PM, Wolfgang S. Rupprecht wrote: >> One of the laptops I'm trying to upgrade to f18/x86_64 from f17/x86_64 >> is printing row after row of asterisks after it rebooted into the fedup >> boot environment. >> >> Has anyone seen this before? Is there a fix or do I have to do a >> wipe/reinstall from some other source? >> >> -wolfgang > > > Yes, happened to me. Its a Plymouth bug, I think. Caused by hitting > ESC before Plymouth is ready for you to. :) Ah. That make sense. Thanks! That laptop is one of the two computers here that still have "rhgb quiet" appended to the boot lines. I did hit to see what is going on. -wolfgang -- g+: https://plus.google.com/114566345864337108516/about -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: fedup: it's full of stars
On 01/17/2013 02:06 PM, Wolfgang S. Rupprecht wrote: One of the laptops I'm trying to upgrade to f18/x86_64 from f17/x86_64 is printing row after row of asterisks after it rebooted into the fedup boot environment. Has anyone seen this before? Is there a fix or do I have to do a wipe/reinstall from some other source? -wolfgang Yes, happened to me. Its a Plymouth bug, I think. Caused by hitting ESC before Plymouth is ready for you to. :) Also, if you let it go and watch the progress bar move for a bit, hit ESC, then hit ESC again to go back, the progress bar resets and does not ever progress any more. :) -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: fedup: it's full of stars
On Thu, Jan 17, 2013 at 01:06:28PM -0800, Wolfgang S. Rupprecht wrote: > One of the laptops I'm trying to upgrade to f18/x86_64 from f17/x86_64 > is printing row after row of asterisks after it rebooted into the fedup > boot environment. I think that's what it does when it's working. -- Matthew Miller ☁☁☁ Fedora Cloud Architect ☁☁☁ -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: fedup: it's full of stars
On 01/17/2013 02:36 PM, Wolfgang S. Rupprecht wrote: Not in the long run. There was some initially, but after a few seconds it stopped. I let the installer run for half an hour or so, but all it did was print stars and run the fan at high speed doing its best hairdryer imitation. Thank you. There was the possibility that the program was printing the stars to show that it wasn't hung, but I guess not. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: fedup: it's full of stars
On Thu, 2013-01-17 at 13:27 -0800, Joe Zeff wrote: > On 01/17/2013 01:06 PM, Wolfgang S. Rupprecht wrote: > > One of the laptops I'm trying to upgrade to f18/x86_64 from f17/x86_64 > > is printing row after row of asterisks after it rebooted into the fedup > > boot environment. > > > > Has anyone seen this before? Is there a fix or do I have to do a > > wipe/reinstall from some other source? > > I must admit that your subject line gave me a major Stanley Kubrick > moment. Are there any signs of disk activity or is this all that happens? Arthur C. Clarke moment in fact. "It's full of stars" is from the book of 2001, not the movie. Also, the Discovery goes to Saturn, not Jupiter, but Kubrick thought Saturn's rings would be too hard to film. Just thought I'd throw that in :-) poc -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: fedup: it's full of stars
Joe Zeff writes: > I must admit that your subject line gave me a major Stanley Kubrick > moment. ;-) I had to get people to read the msg. > Are there any signs of disk activity or is this all that happens? Not in the long run. There was some initially, but after a few seconds it stopped. I let the installer run for half an hour or so, but all it did was print stars and run the fan at high speed doing its best hairdryer imitation. I'm running fedup from f17 again. The fedup directory in /var/tmp seems to be gone now. There is a small chance that a local shell script which cleans /var/tmp was to blame. (It didn't effect the other 4 machines I updated with fedup, so I'm not entirely sure what was going on.) I'll report back whenever the fedup install gets to the point of trying a reboot again. -wolfgang -- g+: https://plus.google.com/114566345864337108516/about -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: fedup: it's full of stars
On 01/17/2013 01:06 PM, Wolfgang S. Rupprecht wrote: One of the laptops I'm trying to upgrade to f18/x86_64 from f17/x86_64 is printing row after row of asterisks after it rebooted into the fedup boot environment. Has anyone seen this before? Is there a fix or do I have to do a wipe/reinstall from some other source? I must admit that your subject line gave me a major Stanley Kubrick moment. Are there any signs of disk activity or is this all that happens? -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
