Re: statistics on Fedora and RHEL usage

[Samuel Sieb]

On 5/13/24 12:46 PM, Jeffrey Walton wrote:
On Mon, May 13, 2024 at 8:22 AM Michael D. Setzer II via users 
mailto:users@lists.fedoraproject.org>> 
wrote:


A quick note. There is a reverse VNC option with VNC that uses
port 5500 (I believe). Been a while since I used it. It is a kind of
reverse VNC. In which the client makes the connection to your
host. So, it doesn't require the port mapping.

Don't have it running much, but did with my mom many years ago.
Made connection from her machine in Nevada, to my machine and
Guam, and then I did the port mapping info to automate the
process. So, might be something to look at.


I think Michael answered a question you did not ask. But I think it's 
the question you should have asked: which remote administration tools 
are available for Fedora and Windows since AnyDesk does not support Fedora.


I'm guessing you would get a pretty good list based on practical 
experience. Lists like 
>, 
and Q's like 
> and >.


I will also recommend rustdesk.  It's what I use now for occasional 
windows remote support.  It's open source and they provide an rpm.  I 
run my own servers as well, so it's very secure.  The only issue with 
that is they have to adjust the network settings to point to my server, 
but that hasn't been an issue.  Hopefully, there will be an easier 
deployment method to automatically fill that in.

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Re: statistics on Fedora and RHEL usage

[jdow]

On 20240513 05:35:46, ToddAndMargo via users wrote:

On 5/13/24 05:22, Michael D. Setzer II wrote:

A quick note. There is a reverse VNC option with VNC that uses
port 5500 (I believe). Been a while since I used it. It is a kind of
reverse VNC. In which the client makes the connection to your
host. So, it doesn't require the port mapping.



That is fascinating.  It would require an change in my iptables
to let its unestablished packets through.

One of the other things I like about remote assistance
software is that I can doodle on the screen.  I love to
make a YUGE red arrow to what they say does not exist
on their screens.  I love to hear them say "oh".

A lot of what I do is teaching and Any Desk really
helps with that.



If you are facing double NAT CloudFlare offers an excellent solution. Search for 
"cloudflare double nat". It is a proxy server that relies on using their DNS 
servers.


Good luck. I've not tried it yet. It looks good. Lots of people on reddit seem 
to like it.


{^_^}   Joanne
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Re: statistics on Fedora and RHEL usage

[Jeffrey Walton]

On Mon, May 13, 2024 at 8:22 AM Michael D. Setzer II via users <
users@lists.fedoraproject.org> wrote:

> A quick note. There is a reverse VNC option with VNC that uses
> port 5500 (I believe). Been a while since I used it. It is a kind of
> reverse VNC. In which the client makes the connection to your
> host. So, it doesn't require the port mapping.
>
> Don't have it running much, but did with my mom many years ago.
> Made connection from her machine in Nevada, to my machine and
> Guam, and then I did the port mapping info to automate the
> process. So, might be something to look at.
>

I think Michael answered a question you did not ask. But I think it's the
question you should have asked: which remote administration tools are
available for Fedora and Windows since AnyDesk does not support Fedora.

I'm guessing you would get a pretty good list based on practical
experience. Lists like <
https://www.tecmint.com/best-remote-linux-desktop-sharing-software/>, and
Q's like <
https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/seeking-cross-platform-remote-access-software-recommendations/86862>
and <
https://www.reddit.com/r/Fedora/comments/vxmm3i/need_some_recommendations_for_remote_management/
>.

Jeff
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Re: statistics on Fedora and RHEL usage

[Tim via users]

On Mon, 2024-05-13 at 05:35 -0700, ToddAndMargo via users wrote:
> One of the other things I like about remote assistance
> software is that I can doodle on the screen.  I love to
> make a YUGE red arrow to what they say does not exist
> on their screens.  I love to hear them say "oh".

I hate doing telephone tech support, even though I only do it for a
couple of people, it makes you want to throttle them.  I did a remote
desktop fix-up of a friend's PC many years ago, where I drove their
mouse while looking at their screen, but talking people though things
is such a huge damn waste of time.  Hours of your time to do a two
minute job.  It's less time to go there in person, or get them to bring
it over.

- Open the preferences or settings.
- Where is that?
- Look in the menu.  The menu for the application you're trying to fix,
not the desktop.  It's in the first menu, just look for it.
- I can't see preferences.

Then they start reading out loud everything they can see (and of course
don't see what they're supposed to be looking for, even when in the
right place to find it).  And then they randomly try out completely
unrelated things.

Me, sitting at home with the same software, looking at it and trying to
interrupt them talking to tell them them top left menu, second item
from the bottom it says preferences.

I have actually told them to "stop doing things I haven't told you to
do, and just do what I said."

What I want to say, but don't:  FFS read the menus, yourself, don't
dictate the whole damn thing to me!  When you find preferences open it,
tell me when you've done that.  Telling me a pile of other things
doesn't do any good.  You need to open the "preferences" not other
things.  Have you still got the box?  Well put it back in the box and
take it back.

And these people drive cars, through traffic, and could wipe out dozens
of lives from inability to use equipment sensibly...   Grrr!!

We have GUIs, with labels that tell the user what the function is. 
Apply a bit of thought and you can work things out for yourself.  They
have pop-up tool-tips that give a bit more info.  There's a manual full
of information.  There's preferences (or "settings") with labelled
functions.  It's in categories.  If you just looked at your options and
read them, you ought to be able to figure out how to do things.  That's
how I did it, it's not bloody magic.

Ever since I ditched Windows decades ago, that nightmare has almost
gone away for me.  They ask me for help and I say that I don't use
Windows any more, I can't advise them on windows-specific things.  No,
I can't tell you which anti-virus software is best, I don't use them. 
I don't need to.  My system isn't a plethora of security holes, and I
don't compromise my system through doing stupid things (that anti-virus
wouldn't stop, anyway - how many people just cancel all the warnings,
damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead).

I can't say I like helping people with Ubuntu, either.  It's desktop
and multitude of software install/update gadgets are a complete mess.

I remember when I first got on the internet.  I didn't need the ISPs
tech-support to waste forever and day trying to guide me through
configuring my settings to get online.  I just needed to be told the
DNS and mail server addresses for their systems.  I could figure out
where to type them in, it wasn't difficult.
 
-- 
 
NB:  All unexpected mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted.
I will only get to see the messages that are posted to the list.
 
The following system info data is generated fresh for each post:
 
uname -rsvp
Linux 6.2.15-100.fc36.x86_64 #1 SMP PREEMPT_DYNAMIC Thu May 11 16:51:53
UTC 2023 x86_64
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Re: statistics on Fedora and RHEL usage

[Michal Domonkos]

On Sat, May 11, 2024 at 07:58:33AM -0700, ToddAndMargo via users wrote:
> Anyone know of a source that gives the number of
> users of Fedora vs CentOS vs RHEL?

For Fedora specifically, there's this:
https://github.com/fedora-infra/mirrors-countme

-- 
Michal Domonkos / RPM / Red Hat, Inc.
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Re: statistics on Fedora and RHEL usage

[ToddAndMargo via users]

On 5/13/24 05:22, Michael D. Setzer II wrote:

A quick note. There is a reverse VNC option with VNC that uses
port 5500 (I believe). Been a while since I used it. It is a kind of
reverse VNC. In which the client makes the connection to your
host. So, it doesn't require the port mapping.



That is fascinating.  It would require an change in my iptables
to let its unestablished packets through.

One of the other things I like about remote assistance
software is that I can doodle on the screen.  I love to
make a YUGE red arrow to what they say does not exist
on their screens.  I love to hear them say "oh".

A lot of what I do is teaching and Any Desk really
helps with that.


--
~~
Computers are like air conditioners.
They malfunction when you open windows
~~
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Re: statistics on Fedora and RHEL usage

[ToddAndMargo via users]

On 5/13/24 01:29, Jeffrey Walton wrote:
We used to run Red Hat and CentOS web servers. We had to migrate away 
from them due to their antique software. Some (many?) enterprises may 
like the fact that the platform has 10 or 15 year old software so their 
20 year old web apps don't need to be refreshed. And trying to get 
updated software via Software Collection (SCL) knows it is the pits.


But we found the antique software too limiting. We could not even run 
modern MediaWiki software on our Red Hat and CentOS web servers. We use 
Fedora server nowadays. We get the latest versions of packages carried 
by the distro, and we get SElinux. And it runs a modern LAMPs stack.


And we avoid the antique software and its unknown and unfixed bugs. 
Hacking teams love that old software that is no longer being maintained. 
It means their exploits will usually work forever.


Jeff


Hi Jeff

That was very well stated.   About 10 years ago, I was
configuring a Linux server with CentOS for a customer.
To test all the hardware, I booted into the Live USB
tick I used to install the server.  It worked perfectly.
After installing, native would only work every 5 or
more boots.  What ??? Back in with the live USB.  Booted
perfectly every time.   The USB stick was slower.  It
was a timing issue.  Red Hat refused to fix it as
I was not a subscriber.

Out of desperation, I switched to Fedora.  It worked
perfectly.

Then I switched my office over to Fedora.  Everything that
did not work or worked poorly was fixed.  Well a few things
did not and I reported them, Fedora fixed the post haste.
I was in Linux heaven.  I still get the giggles every
time I boot up.  After the  S-T-R-E-S-S  of CentOS, I absolute
ADORE Fedora!

The thing about antique software, like RHEL and friends, is
that it is being used as an appliance, such as
a toaster or a microwave oven.  Set and forget.
Kaisen it is not.

Kaisen: continuously improve
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaizen

And if you want an "appliance", you can do that with ANY OS.
Just get you stuff going, lock it down.  Shut off all updates,
set and forget.  It is a much more reasonable way to do
an appliance rather than hope some defunct system will
actually work with your software.

A Windows colleague told me about an XP installation
he uses for some surveillance thing.  He minimized
it, took it off the network, installed just his
software.  Set and forget.  He has not rebooted
in years.  (For those of you not familiar with
Windows, it needs to be reboot about every three
days or it goes slowly screwy.  Windows is awful quality.)

-T
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Re: statistics on Fedora and RHEL usage

[Michael D. Setzer II via users]

A quick note. There is a reverse VNC option with VNC that uses 
port 5500 (I believe). Been a while since I used it. It is a kind of 
reverse VNC. In which the client makes the connection to your 
host. So, it doesn't require the port mapping. 

Don't have it running much, but did with my mom many years ago.
Made connection from her machine in Nevada, to my machine and 
Guam, and then I did the port mapping info to automate the 
process. So, might be something to look at. 

Thanks for the reply, and good luck on finding the best solution.


On 13 May 2024 at 0:27, ToddAndMargo via users wrote:

Date sent:  Mon, 13 May 2024 00:27:06 -0700
Subject:Re: statistics on Fedora and RHEL usage
To: Community support for Fedora users 

Send reply to:  Community support for Fedora users 

From:   ToddAndMargo via users 

Copies to:  mi...@guam.net, ToddAndMargo 


> On 5/12/24 06:22, Michael D. Setzer II wrote:
> > Watching thread, and wondering why you are looking at AnyDesk
> > if they don't want to support Fedora? Not sure if they have a
> > special feature you are looking at? Haven't used that Program at
> > all, but seems to be a remote desktop program.
> > 
> > I've used TightVNC, TigerVNC, and currently using TurboVNC.
> > 
> > TigerVNC is the somewhat default version for Fedora, but I've
> > currently had good results with the TurboVNC with the XFCE
> > desktop myself.
> 
> 
> Hi Michael,
> 
> I am providing remote support for many of my customers.
> They are mostly Windows users.  I wish I had more
> Linux customers, but it is what it is.  I would not
> have a job if not for Windows poor quality.
> 
> I first used Go To Assist, but dropped them for their lack
> of Linux support and ignoring bug and enhancement reports.
> I also did not care for having to run it out of a Windows
> virtual machine.
> 
> I looked at Team Viewer, but they are very, very expensive
> and "Woke" as well, which means they are no longer hiring
> based on merit and their product(s) will/are deteriorating
> because of it.
> 
> The reason for AnyDesk and such is that it get around
> firewalls/routers.  If a customer calls, there is no way
> I would be able to coach then through installing a port
> forward on their firewall/router which are required
> for the various VNC's.  I am lucky if most of my customers
> know how to use their keyboards. (I still have to assist
> them with finding the "Win" and "Esc" keys.  Sometimes
> even the "Enter" key.)
> 
> I landed on Any desk because it is reasonably priced,
> supports Linux, is quite snappy (fast), is able to get around
> several technical problems with Go To Assist, their
> tech support is responsive, they take bug reports.
> 
> Although, if the report is specifically Fedora, the
> second tier sends you back their supported linux spins.
> They support CentOS and RHEL.  So I am currently
> installing a Virtual Machine of CentOS to reproduce
> any issues, so second tier can not weasel out of it.
> 
> Any Desk's RHEL rpm works rather well (except for the
> lightdm issue) in Fedora and certainly gets around a
> ton of issues that Go To Assist plagued me with.
> AnyDesk's Multi Factor Authentication is rather easy
> to set up too.  I prefer Red Hat's FreeOTP (Cell phones)
> and Fedora's Keysmith for such.
> 
> -T
> 
> 
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++
 Michael D. Setzer II - Computer Science Instructor (Retired) 
 mailto:mi...@guam.net
 mailto:msetze...@gmail.com
 mailto:msetze...@gmx.com
 Guam - Where America's Day Begins
 G4L Disk Imaging Project maintainer 
 http://sourceforge.net/projects/g4l/
++


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Re: statistics on Fedora and RHEL usage

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Mon, 2024-05-13 at 11:26 +0100, Souji Thenria via users wrote:
> On Mon May 13, 2024 at 10:53 AM BST, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> > On Mon, 2024-05-13 at 04:29 -0400, Jeffrey Walton wrote:
> > > But we found the antique software too limiting. We could not even
> > > run
> > > modern MediaWiki software on our Red Hat and CentOS web servers.
> > > We
> > > use
> > > Fedora server nowadays. We get the latest versions of packages
> > > carried by
> > > the distro, and we get SElinux.
> > 
> > I don´t have a dog in this fight, but surely RHEL and Centos have
> > SElinux?
> 
> They do have SELinux, which should also be enabled by default (same
> as on Fedora)!

That's what I assumed.

poc
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Re: statistics on Fedora and RHEL usage

[Souji Thenria via users]

On Mon May 13, 2024 at 10:53 AM BST, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:

On Mon, 2024-05-13 at 04:29 -0400, Jeffrey Walton wrote:
> But we found the antique software too limiting. We could not even run
> modern MediaWiki software on our Red Hat and CentOS web servers. We
> use
> Fedora server nowadays. We get the latest versions of packages
> carried by
> the distro, and we get SElinux.

I don´t have a dog in this fight, but surely RHEL and Centos have
SElinux?


They do have SELinux, which should also be enabled by default (same as
on Fedora)!
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Re: statistics on Fedora and RHEL usage

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Mon, 2024-05-13 at 04:29 -0400, Jeffrey Walton wrote:
> But we found the antique software too limiting. We could not even run
> modern MediaWiki software on our Red Hat and CentOS web servers. We
> use
> Fedora server nowadays. We get the latest versions of packages
> carried by
> the distro, and we get SElinux.

I don´t have a dog in this fight, but surely RHEL and Centos have
SElinux?

poc
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Re: statistics on Fedora and RHEL usage

[Jeffrey Walton]

On Sun, May 12, 2024 at 6:36 AM George N. White III 
wrote:

> On Sun, May 12, 2024 at 6:19 AM Patrick O'Callaghan 
> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 2024-05-11 at 22:55 -0700, ToddAndMargo via users wrote:
>> > I am looking for evidence as to why AnyDesk should
>> > start officially supporting Fedora.  They already
>> > support RHEL and CentOS (I use RHEL's RPM), so it
>> > would not be much of a leap.
>>
>> They might argue that Fedora is much more of a moving target than RHEL
>> or Centos, and possibly less likely to be used in corporate settings (I
>> don't know if the latter is true of course).
>>
>
> I think that is very likely the reason, and would add that a) software
> that runs on
> CentOS or RHEL needs minimal or zero changes to run on the other OS while
> Fedora would often need changes, and b) Fedora has a higher percentage of
> new to linux users so tech support requires more "hand-holding".
>

We used to run Red Hat and CentOS web servers. We had to migrate away from
them due to their antique software. Some (many?) enterprises may like the
fact that the platform has 10 or 15 year old software so their 20 year old
web apps don't need to be refreshed. And trying to get updated software via
Software Collection (SCL) knows it is the pits.

But we found the antique software too limiting. We could not even run
modern MediaWiki software on our Red Hat and CentOS web servers. We use
Fedora server nowadays. We get the latest versions of packages carried by
the distro, and we get SElinux. And it runs a modern LAMPs stack.

And we avoid the antique software and its unknown and unfixed bugs. Hacking
teams love that old software that is no longer being maintained. It means
their exploits will usually work forever.

Jeff
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Re: statistics on Fedora and RHEL usage

[ToddAndMargo via users]

On 5/12/24 06:22, Michael D. Setzer II wrote:

Watching thread, and wondering why you are looking at AnyDesk
if they don't want to support Fedora? Not sure if they have a
special feature you are looking at? Haven't used that Program at
all, but seems to be a remote desktop program.

I've used TightVNC, TigerVNC, and currently using TurboVNC.

TigerVNC is the somewhat default version for Fedora, but I've
currently had good results with the TurboVNC with the XFCE
desktop myself.



Hi Michael,

I am providing remote support for many of my customers.
They are mostly Windows users.  I wish I had more
Linux customers, but it is what it is.  I would not
have a job if not for Windows poor quality.

I first used Go To Assist, but dropped them for their lack
of Linux support and ignoring bug and enhancement reports.
I also did not care for having to run it out of a Windows
virtual machine.

I looked at Team Viewer, but they are very, very expensive
and "Woke" as well, which means they are no longer hiring
based on merit and their product(s) will/are deteriorating
because of it.

The reason for AnyDesk and such is that it get around
firewalls/routers.  If a customer calls, there is no way
I would be able to coach then through installing a port
forward on their firewall/router which are required
for the various VNC's.  I am lucky if most of my customers
know how to use their keyboards. (I still have to assist
them with finding the "Win" and "Esc" keys.  Sometimes
even the "Enter" key.)

I landed on Any desk because it is reasonably priced,
supports Linux, is quite snappy (fast), is able to get around
several technical problems with Go To Assist, their
tech support is responsive, they take bug reports.

Although, if the report is specifically Fedora, the
second tier sends you back their supported linux spins.
They support CentOS and RHEL.  So I am currently
installing a Virtual Machine of CentOS to reproduce
any issues, so second tier can not weasel out of it.

Any Desk's RHEL rpm works rather well (except for the
lightdm issue) in Fedora and certainly gets around a
ton of issues that Go To Assist plagued me with.
AnyDesk's Multi Factor Authentication is rather easy
to set up too.  I prefer Red Hat's FreeOTP (Cell phones)
and Fedora's Keysmith for such.

-T


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Re: statistics on Fedora and RHEL usage

[Tim via users]

ToddAndMargo:
>> Anyone know of a source that gives the number of users of
>> Fedora vs CentOS vs RHEL?

George N. White III:
> Anyone can make up numbers.  There may be good numbers for RHEL 
> installations, but not numbers of users (at my former work lots of people 
> had RHEL logins that were rarely used, e.g. updates to a database).  For 
> CentOS and Fedora there can be large numbers of "managed" workstations 
> in a cubicle farm with very little visibility into the OS being used outside 
> the 
> enterprise.

I think you'd need statistics from something that's very commonly used
by (nearly) everybody all over the world.  Such as, everyone who makes
a google search.

Just looking at some of the stats from my website, which isn't going to
be very representative of anything, you can see what OS *some* users
use from the web agent strings.  But, at times, you can also see that
many user agents have obscurred data.  I see that a lot of spiders
crawled the site last week, it seems there's more of them than real
people.

Top 15 of 785 Total User Agents

#  Hits  User   Agent 
1  1652  5.12%  Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Ubuntu; Linux x86_64; rv:72.0) Gecko/20100101 
Firefox/72.0
2  1153  3.57%  Go-http-client/1.1
3  1133  3.51%  Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; AhrefsBot/7.0; 
http://ahrefs.com/robot/)
4   896  2.78%  Mozilla/5.0 AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko; compatible; 
bingbot/2.0; +http://www.bing.com/bingbot.htm) Chrome/116.0.19
5   865  2.68%  Mozilla/5.0 AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko; compatible; 
ClaudeBot/1.0; +claude...@anthropic.com)
6   588  1.82%  Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; Trident/7.0; rv:11.0) like 
Gecko
7   522  1.62%  python-requests/2.31.0
8   502  1.55%  facebookexternalhit/1.1 
(+http://www.facebook.com/externalhit_uatext.php)
9   482  1.49%  FriendlyCrawler/Nutch-1.20-SNAPSHOT
10  455  1.41%  Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; Bytespider; 
spider-feedb...@bytedance.com) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) 
Chrome/70.0.0.0 Sa
11  364  1.13%  Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64) AppleWebKit/537.36 
(KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/74.0.3729.169 Safari/537.36
12  317  0.98%  Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; Googlebot/2.1; 
+http://www.google.com/bot.html)
13  306  0.95%  Googlebot-Image/1.0
14  305  0.94%  Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; Barkrowler/0.9; 
+https://babbar.tech/crawler)
15  296  0.92%  Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; Android 11; vivo 1906; wv) 
AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Chrome/87.0.4280.141 Mobile


Another stats analysis program comes up with these visitor results,
with some amusing zeros in places but non-zero further along the line:

Operating Systems  (HTTP accesses)
==

Versions   Pages  Percent  Hits   Percent
=
Macintosh  31515.6 %   85613.5 % 
-
OS X 10.9 Mavericks1  0 %  2  0 %
OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion1  0 %  10 0.1 %
Mac OS X 10.7 Lion 0  0 %  7  0.1 %
Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard 0  0 %  8  0.1 %
Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard  1  0 %  1  0 %
macOS 10.15 Catalina   23211.5 %   69010.9 %
macOS 10.14 Mojave 6  0.2 %6  0 %
macOS 10.13 High Sierra27 1.3 %80 1.2 %
macOS 10.12 Sierra 18 0.8 %19 0.3 %
OS X 10.11 El Capitan  8  0.3 %8  0.1 %
OS X 10.10 Yosemite3  0.1 %3  0 %
Mac OS X others18 0.8 %22 0.3 %


Linux  1296.4 %2,058  32.5 % 

Ubuntu 11 0.5 %1,667  26.3 %
GNU Linux (Unknown)1185.8 %3916.1 %


iOS1195.9 %3465.4 % 
---
iOS (iPhone)   1195.9 %3425.4 %
iOS (iPad) 0  0 %  4  0 %


Windows   1,061   52.7 %   1,638  25.9 % 

Windows XP28  1.3 %85 1.3 %
Windows Vista (LongHorn)  10  0.4 %18 0.2 %
Windows 8.1   15  0.7 %15 0.2 %
Windows 8 6   0.2 %33 0.5 %
Windows 7 117 5.8 %1872.9 %
Windows 2003  1   0 %  1  0 %
Windows 2000  1   0 %  1  0 %
Windows 10883 43.8 %   1,298  20.5 %


Android   143 7.1 %4817.6 % 
---
Google Android 8.x5   0.2 %25 0.3 %
Google Android 7.x15  0.7 %27 0.4 %
Google Android 6.x70  3.4 %73 1.1 %
Google Android 5.x0   0 %  1  0 %
Google Android 4.41   0 %  1  0 %
Google 

Re: statistics on Fedora and RHEL usage

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Sun, 2024-05-12 at 10:31 -0400, Jonathan Billings wrote:
> 
> 
> > On May 12, 2024, at 09:39, Michael D. Setzer II via users
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > https://truelist.co/blog/linux-statistics/
> > Has some info. #18 topic has Ubuntu listed at just under 34%.
> > Debian at 16%, CentOS at 9.3%, RedHat at 0.8%, Gentoo at 0.5%,
> > and then Fedora at 0.2%. But no real clue on how they came up
> > with those numbers, or what kind of users those are.
> 
> Those numbers are based on public web servers running those distros,
> and there are a lot of caveats to even that breakdown, see the
> methodology of the research:
> 
> https://w3techs.com/technologies
> 
> While Fedora can and is used for web services (and is much more
> common in the cattle-not-pets style of container web services), a lot
> of the more traditional server practices requires a stable,
> unchanging web service platform which you see in RHEL and other LTS
> distros. 
> 
> It’s unlikely you’ll ever get good stats on desktop distro usage
> breakdown, if you consider how angry the community got when Fedora
> simply *proposed* tracking. The only thing I can think of: Ubuntu can
> track their snap store because it’s their own proprietary product and
> so there aren’t mirrors or alternate stores to obfuscate results, so
> I imagine they’ll always have ways to track users and post numbers. 

I guess Fedora repo accesses would be one way, though it wouldn't
account for varying IP addresses or VPNs.

poc
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Re: statistics on Fedora and RHEL usage

[Jonathan Billings]

> On May 12, 2024, at 09:39, Michael D. Setzer II via users 
>  wrote:
> 
> https://truelist.co/blog/linux-statistics/
> Has some info. #18 topic has Ubuntu listed at just under 34%.
> Debian at 16%, CentOS at 9.3%, RedHat at 0.8%, Gentoo at 0.5%,
> and then Fedora at 0.2%. But no real clue on how they came up
> with those numbers, or what kind of users those are.

Those numbers are based on public web servers running those distros, and there 
are a lot of caveats to even that breakdown, see the methodology of the 
research:

https://w3techs.com/technologies

While Fedora can and is used for web services (and is much more common in the 
cattle-not-pets style of container web services), a lot of the more traditional 
server practices requires a stable, unchanging web service platform which you 
see in RHEL and other LTS distros. 

It’s unlikely you’ll ever get good stats on desktop distro usage breakdown, if 
you consider how angry the community got when Fedora simply *proposed* 
tracking. The only thing I can think of: Ubuntu can track their snap store 
because it’s their own proprietary product and so there aren’t mirrors or 
alternate stores to obfuscate results, so I imagine they’ll always have ways to 
track users and post numbers. 

-- 
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Re: statistics on Fedora and RHEL usage

[Michael D. Setzer II via users]

On 12 May 2024 at 4:51, ToddAndMargo via users wrote:

Date sent:  Sun, 12 May 2024 04:51:11 -0700
Subject:Re: statistics on Fedora and RHEL usage
To: users@lists.fedoraproject.org
Send reply to:  Community support for Fedora users 

From:   ToddAndMargo via users 

Copies to:  ToddAndMargo 

> On 5/12/24 03:36, George N. White III wrote:
> > Fedora has a higher percentage of
> > new to linux users
> 
> Do you know what those numbers are?

https://truelist.co/blog/linux-statistics/
Has some info. #18 topic has Ubuntu listed at just under 34%.
Debian at 16%, CentOS at 9.3%, RedHat at 0.8%, Gentoo at 0.5%, 
and then Fedora at 0.2%. But no real clue on how they came up 
with those numbers, or what kind of users those are.


> 
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++
 Michael D. Setzer II - Computer Science Instructor (Retired) 
 mailto:mi...@guam.net
 mailto:msetze...@gmail.com
 mailto:msetze...@gmx.com
 Guam - Where America's Day Begins
 G4L Disk Imaging Project maintainer 
 http://sourceforge.net/projects/g4l/
++


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Re: statistics on Fedora and RHEL usage

[ToddAndMargo via users]

On 5/12/24 03:36, George N. White III wrote:

Fedora has a higher percentage of
new to linux users


Do you know what those numbers are?

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Re: statistics on Fedora and RHEL usage

[George N. White III]

On Sun, May 12, 2024 at 6:19 AM Patrick O'Callaghan 
wrote:

> On Sat, 2024-05-11 at 22:55 -0700, ToddAndMargo via users wrote:
> > I am looking for evidence as to why AnyDesk should
> > start officially supporting Fedora.  They already
> > support RHEL and CentOS (I use RHEL's RPM), so it
> > would not be much of a leap.
>
> They might argue that Fedora is much more of a moving target than RHEL
> or Centos, and possibly less likely to be used in corporate settings (I
> don't know if the latter is true of course).
>

I think that is very likely the reason, and would add that a) software that
runs on
CentOS or RHEL needs minimal or zero changes to run on the other OS while
Fedora would often need changes, and b) Fedora has a higher percentage of
new to linux users so tech support requires more "hand-holding".

-- 
George N. White III
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Re: statistics on Fedora and RHEL usage

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Sat, 2024-05-11 at 22:55 -0700, ToddAndMargo via users wrote:
> I am looking for evidence as to why AnyDesk should
> start officially supporting Fedora.  They already
> support RHEL and CentOS (I use RHEL's RPM), so it
> would not be much of a leap.

They might argue that Fedora is much more of a moving target than RHEL
or Centos, and possibly less likely to be used in corporate settings (I
don't know if the latter is true of course).

poc
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Re: statistics on Fedora and RHEL usage

[ToddAndMargo via users]

On 5/11/24 11:26, George N. White III wrote:
On Sat, May 11, 2024 at 11:58 AM ToddAndMargo via users 
mailto:users@lists.fedoraproject.org>> 
wrote:


Hi All,

Anyone know of a source that gives the number of
users of Fedora vs CentOS vs RHEL?


Anyone can make up numbers.  There may be good numbers for RHEL
installations, but not numbers of users (at my former work lots of people
had RHEL logins that were rarely used, e.g. updates to a database).  For
CentOS and Fedora there can be large numbers of "managed" workstations
in a cubicle farm with very little visibility into the OS being used 
outside the

enterprise.

--
George N. White III


Hi George,

I am looking for evidence as to why AnyDesk should
start officially supporting Fedora.  They already
support RHEL and CentOS (I use RHEL's RPM), so it
would not be much of a leap.

-T
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Re: statistics on Fedora and RHEL usage

[George N. White III]

On Sat, May 11, 2024 at 11:58 AM ToddAndMargo via users <
users@lists.fedoraproject.org> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Anyone know of a source that gives the number of
> users of Fedora vs CentOS vs RHEL?
>

Anyone can make up numbers.  There may be good numbers for RHEL
installations, but not numbers of users (at my former work lots of people
had RHEL logins that were rarely used, e.g. updates to a database).  For
CentOS and Fedora there can be large numbers of "managed" workstations
in a cubicle farm with very little visibility into the OS being used
outside the
enterprise.

-- 
George N. White III
--
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