Re: Trying to get apache to run on two interfaces.. But get errors. Probable doing something wrong? or impossible. Thanks

[Mike Wright]

On 10/29/22 00:40, Michael D. Setzer II via users wrote:

Was trying to get the apache to run on two interfaces,
and thought it was work on both,
but checked and it wasn't running on either?


So questions:
Can apache work with 2 different IPs or can it only listen
to one? Is doing it with two Listen lines wrong, is syntax
wrong.



From the apache-2.4 docs:

The Listen directive tells the server to accept incoming requests only 
on the specified port(s) or address-and-port combinations. If only a 
port number is specified in the Listen directive, the server listens to 
the given port on all interfaces. If an IP address is given as well as a 
port, the server will listen on the given port and interface. Multiple 
Listen directives may be used to specify a number of addresses and ports 
to listen on. The server will respond to requests from any of the listed 
addresses and ports.


Mike Wright
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Re: Trying to get apache to run on two interfaces.. But get errors. Probable doing something wrong? or impossible. Thanks

[Tim via users]

On Sat, 2022-10-29 at 17:40 +1000, Michael D. Setzer II via users
wrote:
> Had two Listen lines in httpd.conf but commented the 
> second one and it is working on that ip/port.
> Listen 192.168.16.104:8081
> #Listen 192.168.24.104:8081

You could simplify that to just:

Listen 8081

If you want it to listen on any interface.
 
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Re: Trying to get apache to run on two interfaces.. But get errors. Probable doing something wrong? or impossible. Thanks

[Michael D. Setzer II via users]

On 29 Oct 2022 at 8:56, Barry wrote:

From:   Barry 
Subject:Re: Trying to get apache to run on two 
interfaces.. But get errors. Probable doing something 
wrong? or impossible. Thanks
Date sent:  Sat, 29 Oct 2022 08:56:50 +0100
To: mi...@guam.net,
Community support for Fedora users 

Send reply to:  Community support for Fedora 
users 

> 
> 
> > On 29 Oct 2022, at 08:41, Michael D. Setzer II via users 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > Was trying to get the apache to run on two interfaces, 
> > and thought it was work on both,
> > but checked and it wasn't running on either?
> > 
> > The two networks. One a wired on motherboard 
> > connection, and another being a USB wireless 5G
> > 
> > enp2s0: 
> > flags=4163  
> > mtu 1500
> >inet 192.168.16.104  netmask 255.255.255.0  
> > broadcast 192.168.16.255
> > 
> > wlp0s18f2u3: 
> > flags=4163  
> > mtu 1500
> >inet 192.168.24.14  netmask 255.255.255.0  
> > broadcast 192.168.24.255
> > 
> > The error message in messages was.
> > Oct 29 17:13:56 setzco setroubleshoot[1438]: SELinux is 
> > preventing httpd from name_bind access on the 
> > tcp_socket port 8081.
> 
> that says the problem is selinux policy. You need to fix that i assume.
> I would run with selinux not enforcing to see if that is the only issue.
> 
> Barry

I thought the same thing, but changed the selinux config 
file to have it completely disabled and rebooted, and the 
httpd status still showed failed?? Commenting out the 
2nd listen line had it restart successfully, and then 
reenable the SELINUX and rebooting had it start fine 
with boot rather than fail. So, think it is some combined 
issue.

Thanks for quick reply.


> 
> > 
> > Had two Listen lines in httpd.conf but commented the 
> > second one and it is working on that ip/port.
> > Listen 192.168.16.104:8081
> > #Listen 192.168.24.104:8081
> > 
> > Have a cable modem, and each port on it gets a different 
> > public IP.
> > 
> > The public IPs of two wireless/wired routers
> > xxx.xxx.234.251 (Netgear 2.4/5 newer)
> > xxx.xxx.233.11  (BLINK 2.5 older)
> > 
> > Was trying to get both options working before moving 
> > things to the newer router.
> > Have a dyndns name setup for each router mapped so 
> > accessing the public IP on port 8081 would map to port 
> > on machine.
> > Has worked fine for many years, and public IP on old 
> > router has not changed for many years, though it isn't 
> > static?
> > 
> > Seems ISP blocks many ports on non-static IPs, but port 
> > 8081 worked fine and still does.
> > 
> > So questions: 
> > Can apache work with 2 different IPs or can it only listen 
> > to one? Is doing it with two Listen lines wrong, is syntax 
> > wrong.
> > The USB 5G wireless doesn't work with default kernels, 
> > had to download git source code, and build modual for 
> > each kernel update.
> > 
> > Regular customer support of ISP doesn't have tech info. 
> > Probable need to get ahold of real tech at ISP, and 
> > probable get static IPs.
> > 
> > Use to have a Linux machine that had 9 ethernet ports 
> > long ago. One connected to College Backbone, and 8 
> > other ports connected to 8 different classrooms.
> > Back then the college backbone as 100M and clasroom 
> > were 100M as well (long ago). So classrooms ran on 
> > private IP blocks for each, and used a squid server that 
> > was seeing a 40% cache hit ratio.
> > Retired after 36+ years at college. 
> > Had another server on backbone that was running all the 
> > web and ftp stuff..
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ++
> > Michael D. Setzer II - Computer Science Instructor 
> > (Retired) 
> > mailto:mi...@guam.net
> > mailto:msetze...@gmail.com
> > Guam - Where America's Day Begins
> > G4L Disk Imaging Project maintainer 
> > http://sourceforge.net/projects/g4l/
> > ++
> > 
> > 
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Re: Trying to get apache to run on two interfaces.. But get errors. Probable doing something wrong? or impossible. Thanks

[Barry]

> On 29 Oct 2022, at 08:41, Michael D. Setzer II via users 
>  wrote:
> 
> Was trying to get the apache to run on two interfaces, 
> and thought it was work on both,
> but checked and it wasn't running on either?
> 
> The two networks. One a wired on motherboard 
> connection, and another being a USB wireless 5G
> 
> enp2s0: 
> flags=4163  
> mtu 1500
>inet 192.168.16.104  netmask 255.255.255.0  
> broadcast 192.168.16.255
> 
> wlp0s18f2u3: 
> flags=4163  
> mtu 1500
>inet 192.168.24.14  netmask 255.255.255.0  
> broadcast 192.168.24.255
> 
> The error message in messages was.
> Oct 29 17:13:56 setzco setroubleshoot[1438]: SELinux is 
> preventing httpd from name_bind access on the 
> tcp_socket port 8081.

that says the problem is selinux policy. You need to fix that i assume.
I would run with selinux not enforcing to see if that is the only issue.

Barry

> 
> Had two Listen lines in httpd.conf but commented the 
> second one and it is working on that ip/port.
> Listen 192.168.16.104:8081
> #Listen 192.168.24.104:8081
> 
> Have a cable modem, and each port on it gets a different 
> public IP.
> 
> The public IPs of two wireless/wired routers
> xxx.xxx.234.251 (Netgear 2.4/5 newer)
> xxx.xxx.233.11  (BLINK 2.5 older)
> 
> Was trying to get both options working before moving 
> things to the newer router.
> Have a dyndns name setup for each router mapped so 
> accessing the public IP on port 8081 would map to port 
> on machine.
> Has worked fine for many years, and public IP on old 
> router has not changed for many years, though it isn't 
> static?
> 
> Seems ISP blocks many ports on non-static IPs, but port 
> 8081 worked fine and still does.
> 
> So questions: 
> Can apache work with 2 different IPs or can it only listen 
> to one? Is doing it with two Listen lines wrong, is syntax 
> wrong.
> The USB 5G wireless doesn't work with default kernels, 
> had to download git source code, and build modual for 
> each kernel update.
> 
> Regular customer support of ISP doesn't have tech info. 
> Probable need to get ahold of real tech at ISP, and 
> probable get static IPs.
> 
> Use to have a Linux machine that had 9 ethernet ports 
> long ago. One connected to College Backbone, and 8 
> other ports connected to 8 different classrooms.
> Back then the college backbone as 100M and clasroom 
> were 100M as well (long ago). So classrooms ran on 
> private IP blocks for each, and used a squid server that 
> was seeing a 40% cache hit ratio.
> Retired after 36+ years at college. 
> Had another server on backbone that was running all the 
> web and ftp stuff..
> 
> 
> 
> ++
> Michael D. Setzer II - Computer Science Instructor 
> (Retired) 
> mailto:mi...@guam.net
> mailto:msetze...@gmail.com
> Guam - Where America's Day Begins
> G4L Disk Imaging Project maintainer 
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/g4l/
> ++
> 
> 
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Trying to get apache to run on two interfaces.. But get errors. Probable doing something wrong? or impossible. Thanks

[Michael D. Setzer II via users]

Was trying to get the apache to run on two interfaces, 
and thought it was work on both,
but checked and it wasn't running on either?

The two networks. One a wired on motherboard 
connection, and another being a USB wireless 5G

enp2s0: 
flags=4163  
mtu 1500
inet 192.168.16.104  netmask 255.255.255.0  
broadcast 192.168.16.255

wlp0s18f2u3: 
flags=4163  
mtu 1500
inet 192.168.24.14  netmask 255.255.255.0  
broadcast 192.168.24.255

The error message in messages was.
Oct 29 17:13:56 setzco setroubleshoot[1438]: SELinux is 
preventing httpd from name_bind access on the 
tcp_socket port 8081.

Had two Listen lines in httpd.conf but commented the 
second one and it is working on that ip/port.
Listen 192.168.16.104:8081
#Listen 192.168.24.104:8081

Have a cable modem, and each port on it gets a different 
public IP.

The public IPs of two wireless/wired routers
xxx.xxx.234.251 (Netgear 2.4/5 newer)
xxx.xxx.233.11  (BLINK 2.5 older)

Was trying to get both options working before moving 
things to the newer router.
Have a dyndns name setup for each router mapped so 
accessing the public IP on port 8081 would map to port 
on machine.
Has worked fine for many years, and public IP on old 
router has not changed for many years, though it isn't 
static?

Seems ISP blocks many ports on non-static IPs, but port 
8081 worked fine and still does.

So questions: 
Can apache work with 2 different IPs or can it only listen 
to one? Is doing it with two Listen lines wrong, is syntax 
wrong.
The USB 5G wireless doesn't work with default kernels, 
had to download git source code, and build modual for 
each kernel update.

Regular customer support of ISP doesn't have tech info. 
Probable need to get ahold of real tech at ISP, and 
probable get static IPs.

Use to have a Linux machine that had 9 ethernet ports 
long ago. One connected to College Backbone, and 8 
other ports connected to 8 different classrooms.
Back then the college backbone as 100M and clasroom 
were 100M as well (long ago). So classrooms ran on 
private IP blocks for each, and used a squid server that 
was seeing a 40% cache hit ratio.
Retired after 36+ years at college. 
Had another server on backbone that was running all the 
web and ftp stuff..



++
 Michael D. Setzer II - Computer Science Instructor 
(Retired) 
 mailto:mi...@guam.net
 mailto:msetze...@gmail.com
 Guam - Where America's Day Begins
 G4L Disk Imaging Project maintainer 
 http://sourceforge.net/projects/g4l/
++


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Re: Thanks

[batman 1337]

Hello! I'm BATMAN I'm 24 years old and live in Thailand. Let's be friends :)
i love playing games let's join with me https://jokergaming888.com/
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Thanks

[What Thecat]

Thanks for sharing a great article.
You are providing wonderful information, it is very useful to us.
Keep posting like this informative articles.
Thank you.

https://pgslot-game.info/
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I say thanks for another release (F32)

[sixpack13]

Hallo

official Release statement isn't out yet, but I say thanks for another 
nice Fedora release to *all* people made F32 happen.


Running F32 since beta was released without bugs on an pure Intel box.
 - some very minor though, but ... -

nice !

stay healthy
--
sixpack13
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I say thanks for F31

[sixpack13]

thanks for a new release of Fedora to all involved people that make this happen 
 [1]


to me F31 had been working since first beta without any error's, etc..
very nice !!!


[1] 
maybe it comes somewhat late, but...
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Thanks for: [OT] best (Linux based!) all-in-one NAS-VPN-firewall?

[M. Fioretti]

Many thanks to all who answered this request, and added very useful
general comments. I have synthesized all the feedback collected here
and elsewhere, and forwarded the result  to the client. We'll know how
it ends next month.

For the record, and to give more context: both the client and I know,
and agree with, that "putting all eggs in one basket" is a BAD
idea. No question about that. And I am not even supposed to be the one
who makes the final choice, or the one who eventually builds and
manages whatever is chosen. The question came out informally, while
chatting about other parts of my assignment, because neither I nor the
client (who was way more competent than me on this, until he changed
line of work) are not up to date on **specific** products and projects
in this field. And its meaning was "what is the most efficient way,
time-wise, to get this done well?" We needed help to refresh our view
of the "market", and you provided it.

Thanks!

Marco

On Sat, Jun 29, 2019 10:51:25 AM +0200, Marco Fioretti wrote:
> Greetings,
> 
> One of my jobs in the next months will be Free Software teaching/
> consulting for a small private school. Part of the consulting consists
> of helping the school to evaluate how to set up some infrastructure,
> using Linux/Free Software as much as possible.
> 
> I have been just asked to, quoting, "suggest an all-in-one
> NAS-VPN-firewall for the school". We are talking ~80 students in the
> 8/13 years age range, maybe more after summer, plus teachers and
> administration. The "all-in-one" part is the key requirement, and also
> the reason why I am asking for recommendations based on your
> real-world experience. I know how to handle this stuff the 100%
> DIY/hacker way, but that is not an option in this case. Me, I wouldn't
> mind but, while the school would like to use more FOSS also for
> administration and internal services, actual teaching has much higher
> priority this year.
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Re: I say thanks for a new release !

[Matthew Miller]

On Tue, Apr 30, 2019 at 07:35:05PM -,   sixpack13 wrote:
> anyone ?!

You're welcome. :) On behalf of everyone, thanks for the appreciation!
-- 
Matthew Miller

Fedora Project Leader
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I say thanks for a new release !

[sixpack13]

anyone ?!

;-)
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Re: just saying thanks for the reliability of fedora system upgrades

[Richard England]

On 11/3/18 12:57 PM, Robert P. J. Day wrote:

   other than the aforementioned VPN issue, i have to say, i've become
used to casually saying, "sure, system upgrade my laptop to the next
official release of fedora." man, that's convenient.

rday


+1 with out even the VPN issue :-)


--R

"One must learn by doing the thing. For though you think you know it,
you have no certainty until you try" - Sophocles
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Re: EXTERNAL: just saying thanks for the reliability of fedora system upgrades

[Wells, Roger K.]

On 11/3/18 3:58 PM, Robert P. J. Day wrote:
>   other than the aforementioned VPN issue, i have to say, i've become
> used to casually saying, "sure, system upgrade my laptop to the next
> official release of fedora." man, that's convenient.
>
> rday
>
+1

-- 
Roger Wells, P.E.
leidos
221 Third St
Newport, RI 02840
401-847-4210 (voice)
401-849-1585 (fax)
roger.k.we...@leidos.com

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Re: just saying thanks for the reliability of fedora system upgrades

[ToddAndMargo via users]

On 11/3/18 1:12 PM, Mark C. Allman wrote:

On 11/3/18 3:57 PM, Robert P. J. Day wrote:

   other than the aforementioned VPN issue, i have to say, i've become
used to casually saying, "sure, system upgrade my laptop to the next
official release of fedora." man, that's convenient.

rday


Second the "great job."  Upgraded four systems (one old desktop, one
laptop, two AWS) and no issues at all.


3+

Four so far.  They all went so stinkin' smooth, it almost
got a case of giggles.  (Okay no!  I said "almost"!)

Fedora is a shining example of Kaisen (Constant Improvement).

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Re: just saying thanks for the reliability of fedora system upgrades

[Mark C. Allman]

On 11/3/18 3:57 PM, Robert P. J. Day wrote:
>   other than the aforementioned VPN issue, i have to say, i've become
> used to casually saying, "sure, system upgrade my laptop to the next
> official release of fedora." man, that's convenient.
>
> rday
>
Second the "great job."  Upgraded four systems (one old desktop, one
laptop, two AWS) and no issues at all.

*Mark C. Allman, PMP, CSM*
Founder, See How You Ski, www.seehowyouski.com 
Sr. Project Manager, Allman Professional Consulting, Inc.,
www.allmanpc.com 
617-947-4263, Twitter: @allmanpc
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just saying thanks for the reliability of fedora system upgrades

[Robert P. J. Day]

  other than the aforementioned VPN issue, i have to say, i've become
used to casually saying, "sure, system upgrade my laptop to the next
official release of fedora." man, that's convenient.

rday

-- 


Robert P. J. Day Ottawa, Ontario, CANADA
  http://crashcourse.ca/dokuwiki

Twitter:   http://twitter.com/rpjday
LinkedIn:   http://ca.linkedin.com/in/rpjday

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Re: A note of thanks....

[Sylvia Sánchez]

Hello,

I would like to add my own note of thanks. My laptop also has Nvidia (with
Nouveau) and had some glitches in F24 that were solved in F25, but only on
Workstation. KDE still had some quirky things. And now they're gone with
F26. It has been a great upgrade and everything works flawlessly.
Thanks!


Cheers,
Sylvia



On 12 July 2017 at 07:14, Ed Greshko  wrote:

> Just updated a dual monitor system from F25 to F26 and *everything* went
> smoothly
> with one nice surprise.
>
> I run the nVidia drivers from RPMfusion on this system.  I was expecting,
> as always
> happened in the past, that on reboot I'd be looking at a blank screen with
> a blinking
> cursor.  I was expecting to have to switch to a terminal, or ssh into the
> system, to
> type in the command to manually build the kmod-nvidia package.  But no,
> the system
> came up in graphics mode but without nvidia or nouveau loaded (forgot to
> check what
> it did load).
>
> So, I was able to login, bring up a konsole (I use KDE) and copy/paste the
> necessary
> command to rebuild kmod-nvidia.  Nice.
>
> --
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>
>
>
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A note of thanks....

[Ed Greshko]

Just updated a dual monitor system from F25 to F26 and *everything* went 
smoothly
with one nice surprise.

I run the nVidia drivers from RPMfusion on this system.  I was expecting, as 
always
happened in the past, that on reboot I'd be looking at a blank screen with a 
blinking
cursor.  I was expecting to have to switch to a terminal, or ssh into the 
system, to
type in the command to manually build the kmod-nvidia package.  But no, the 
system
came up in graphics mode but without nvidia or nouveau loaded (forgot to check 
what
it did load). 

So, I was able to login, bring up a konsole (I use KDE) and copy/paste the 
necessary
command to rebuild kmod-nvidia.  Nice.

-- 
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Re: Thanks, everyone, for your comments Re: CIA Outlaw Country attack against CentOS / Rhel (and Fedora?) Is this credible?

[Tim]

Tim: 
>> One day I noticed, while in the middle of browsing, that the "camera
>> is on" LED had lit up, though not noticing *when* it came on.  I
>> wasn't doing anything nefarious, so somewhere in the midst of a pile
>> of ordinary websites I'd browsed through, one of them was a nosey
>> parker.

stan:
> That's sobering.

Chances are it comes from content a website includes within itself from
an external source.  e.g. Advertising.  All someone has to do is inject
an active malware into the advertising that a plethora of websites
incorporate in their pages, and they've got an army of invaders.

>> The galling thing is that at no time was I asked to permit it to
>> happen, and my browser was set up so that it should.

> Yeah, the browser is really my main security risk.

I think it is for everyone.  It's a huge program full of errors, some of
them quite serious.  It's your main interface to the world, and you go
to all manner of places, most of them unplanned (unless you never use
search engines).  And you visit places which incorporate content from
other places (so even prudent browsing is more of a risk than you might
think it is).  And a web browser is a two-way mechanism (people really
forget that).

You've only got to do something like google how to make your printer do
some particular task to come up with a plethora of sites that purport to
provide that information.  These sites haven't written the help
information, though, they've just imported some other website's help
information, as an enticement to get you to load their nefarious page
wrapped up with the their own crap.

> I think it is also a manifestation of the convenience versus security
> trade-off.  Since most people surfing the web care more about
> convenience than security, browser market share is determined by that,
> and security plays second fiddle.

Yes, and as always, when *most* people don't give a damn, everyone
*else* suffers.

-- 
[tim@localhost ~]$ uname -rsvp
Linux 3.9.10-100.fc17.x86_64 #1 SMP Sun Jul 14 01:31:27 UTC 2013 x86_64 
(always current details of the computer that I'm writing this email on)

Boilerplate:  All mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted, there is
no point trying to privately email me, I only get to see the messages
posted to the mailing list.

I reserve the right to treat other people in exactly the same way that
they treat me.


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Re: Thanks, everyone, for your comments Re: CIA Outlaw Country attack against CentOS / Rhel (and Fedora?) Is this credible?

[stan]

On Sat, 01 Jul 2017 01:15:02 +0930
Tim  wrote:

> It's not as far-fetched as you might think.  
> 
> One day I noticed, while in the middle of browsing, that the "camera
> is on" LED had lit up, though not noticing *when* it came on.  I
> wasn't doing anything nefarious, so somewhere in the midst of a pile
> of ordinary websites I'd browsed through, one of them was a nosey
> parker.

That's sobering.

> The galling thing is that at no time was I asked to permit it to
> happen, and my browser was set up so that it should.

Yeah, the browser is really my main security risk.  Firefox used to
have plugins that let it be locked down pretty well, as well as be
customized. They're moving to a new model for plugins in order to
sandbox them, a model that is more restrictive for plugin actions,
harder to develop for, and vets them more closely before allowing them
into their download repository, and it has made many of those plugins
obsolete. The latest nightly tells me that it is turning off many of my
plugins because they are no longer compatible.  Goodbye
self-destructing-cookies, :-(.  They still work in the Fedora
version, but there is a major cutoff coming in August, I think. So, your
experience could become more common.

I think it is also a manifestation of the convenience versus security
trade-off.  Since most people surfing the web care more about
convenience than security, browser market share is determined by that,
and security plays second fiddle.
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Re: Thanks, everyone, for your comments Re: CIA Outlaw Country attack against CentOS / Rhel (and Fedora?) Is this credible?

[Tim]

Allegedly, on or about 29 June 2017, stan sent:
> after the comments in this thread, I think maybe I'm not paranoid
> enough.  That the IT security professionals are paranoid enough to
> cover their cameras? If they're that worried they're vulnerable, it's
> a good bet I should be.  :-) 

It's not as far-fetched as you might think.  

One day I noticed, while in the middle of browsing, that the "camera is
on" LED had lit up, though not noticing *when* it came on.  I wasn't
doing anything nefarious, so somewhere in the midst of a pile of
ordinary websites I'd browsed through, one of them was a nosey parker.

The galling thing is that at no time was I asked to permit it to happen,
and my browser was set up so that it should.

So, my laptop's built in camera is taped over, too.  If it weren't such
a near-impossible task, I'd unplug the damn thing.

-- 
[tim@localhost ~]$ uname -rsvp
Linux 3.9.10-100.fc17.x86_64 #1 SMP Sun Jul 14 01:31:27 UTC 2013 x86_64 
(always current details of the computer that I'm writing this email on)

Boilerplate:  All mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted, there is
no point trying to privately email me, I only get to see the messages
posted to the mailing list.

A positive attitude is worth the effort if it annoys enough people.


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Re: Thanks, everyone, for your comments Re: CIA Outlaw Country attack against CentOS / Rhel (and Fedora?) Is this credible?

[Dave Ihnat]

On Fri, Jun 30, 2017 at 09:40:30AM +0100, Gary Stainburn wrote:
> However, I still have a number of WinXP machines running – through
> necessity.

I'm so sorry for you.  I've gotten rid of all of them at my clients,
through a mixture of software/hardware upgrades, or in the absolute worst
cases running them as VMs on host systems so I can monitor and restrict any
external connections.

> As for wiping Windows boxes on a regular basis, I would be surprised
> if 10% of people did this.

Concur; I regularly have client workstations that run for 5-7 years from
the day we put them in service without ever reloading the OS--be it
Windows, OS X, or Linux.  Of course, I take care of them...

> There is no way that I would be able to resource such a project.

There is, but typically not for any office with fewer than, say, 100
workstations and with non-standard hardware platforms.  If you've the
luxury of using standardized hardware platforms, and enough installations
to make it worthwhile, you can create image libraries for deployment.  But
because of the management/administrative overhead of creating, inventorying
and updating stored images, it's just not worth the trouble for most SMBs.

> Having to wipe and reinstall because Windows is stuffed again
> happens far too often in my opinion.

Eh.  Not so much since Win7, provided the machine is properly managed--and
that means stomping on users who never meet a download they didn't like,
don't play in our (admin) sandbox, etc.

Cheers,
--
Dave Ihnat
dih...@dminet.com
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Re: Thanks, everyone, for your comments Re: CIA Outlaw Country attack against CentOS / Rhel (and Fedora?) Is this credible?

[Dave Ihnat]

On Fri, Jun 30, 2017 at 08:53:07AM -0400, Tom Horsley wrote:
> Which is why you can get computer cases that are physically
> secured with keypads and locks and hardware records of when
> case was opened, etc. (of course they get expensive :-).

Eh, not so much; most business-class machines have BIOS intrusion logs, and
the intrusion switch adds virtually nothing to the cost of the machine.
Case locks--most have a tab that would allow a cable or even padlock to be
installed that would require visible evidence of tampering.  FTM, just get
some frangible evidence tape, forget the lock--you can't stop someone from
getting in, you CAN make it evident it's been tampered with.

Cheers,
--
Dave Ihnat
dih...@dminet.com
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Re: Thanks, everyone, for your comments Re: CIA Outlaw Country attack against CentOS / Rhel (and Fedora?) Is this credible?

[Tom Horsley]

On Thu, 29 Jun 2017 23:05:09 -0400
William Oliver wrote:

> He was always amused
> by all this firewall and virus detection stuff; it doesn't mean
> anything when you have a keylogger, a warrant, a flashlight, and hands
> on a box.

Which is why you can get computer cases that are physically
secured with keypads and locks and hardware records of when
case was opened, etc. (of course they get expensive :-).
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Re: Thanks, everyone, for your comments Re: CIA Outlaw Country attack against CentOS / Rhel (and Fedora?) Is this credible?

[William Oliver]

On Thu, 2017-06-29 at 19:34 -0700, stan wrote:
> The consensus seems to agree with me, that this is a minor threat
> as threats go.
> 
> I thought I was paranoid about security.  But after the comments in
> this
> thread, I think maybe I'm not paranoid enough.  That the IT security
> professionals are paranoid enough to cover their cameras? If they're
> that worried they're vulnerable, it's a good bet I should be.  :-)
> 

Oh, and if you really want to be paranoid, one of my friends' first
jobs was to work for a contractor that worked for the federal
government.  His job (among other things) was to break into people's
houses and install keyloggers on their computers.  He was always amused
by all this firewall and virus detection stuff; it doesn't mean
anything when you have a keylogger, a warrant, a flashlight, and hands
on a box.

billo
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Re: Thanks, everyone, for your comments Re: CIA Outlaw Country attack against CentOS / Rhel (and Fedora?) Is this credible?

[Gary Stainburn]

On Friday 30 June 2017 03:59:59 William Oliver wrote:
> The thing that amazes me about the Window and Mac worlds is that people
> never seem to wipe their boxes.  I know people who run their machines
> for four or five years without ever doing a clean reinstall.  I worked
> at a place that ran Windows XP well beyond its out of service date --
> going as far as buying separate service contracts to keep it going.
>
> For *eight* years, as far as I know, the desktop box in my office never
> had its disk wiped.  Now, sure, I only used it for very limited stuff,
> but still, the entire organization -- hundreds and hundreds of machines
> -- was like that.
>
[snip lots of unsurprising stuff]

I could run this one as welcome to the real world.  I'm not the most nieve of 
SysOps nor am I the most switched on. However, I still have a number of WinXP 
machines running – through necessity.  

We even had Win3.11WfW running well past Y2K because we had to.  The programs 
we were running were not compatible with Win95.

As for wiping Windows boxes on a regular basis, I would be surprised if 10% of 
people did this.  There is no way that I would be able to resource such a 
project.  Having to wipe and reinstall because Windows is stuffed again 
happens far too often in my opinion.


-- 
Gary Stainburn
Group I.T. Manager
Ringways Garages
http://www.ringways.co.uk 

https://fundraise.cancerresearchuk.org/page/garys-march-march
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Re: Thanks, everyone, for your comments Re: CIA Outlaw Country attack against CentOS / Rhel (and Fedora?) Is this credible?

[William Oliver]

On Thu, 2017-06-29 at 19:34 -0700, stan wrote:
> The consensus seems to agree with me, that this is a minor threat
> as threats go.
> 
> I thought I was paranoid about security.  But after the comments in
> this
> thread, I think maybe I'm not paranoid enough.  That the IT security
> professionals are paranoid enough to cover their cameras? If they're
> that worried they're vulnerable, it's a good bet I should be.  :-)
> 


The thing that amazes me about the Window and Mac worlds is that people
never seem to wipe their boxes.  I know people who run their machines
for four or five years without ever doing a clean reinstall.  I worked
at a place that ran Windows XP well beyond its out of service date --
going as far as buying separate service contracts to keep it going.

For *eight* years, as far as I know, the desktop box in my office never
had its disk wiped.  Now, sure, I only used it for very limited stuff,
but still, the entire organization -- hundreds and hundreds of machines
-- was like that.

The interesting thing was they they were locked into it by the
government.  This was a healthcare organization, which dealt in private
health data.  Their case management system had FDA approval to run on
Windows XP, but did not have FDA approval for running on Win 7 or Win
10.  I was told it would cost around 15 million dollars and take two
years to go through the FDA approval process -- by which time the
validation would already be obsolete.  I *think* they were going to try
to skip all the way to Win 10, but the validation process was always
running behind the release of the new Windows.

It amazed me -- the FDA, by it's byzantine rules for validation and
such for protected health information, made it impossible for companies
to update their software in a timely manner in order to protect it.

I never actually tried to do an intrusion -- why ask for the hassle.
It's hard to do without leaving fingerprints if people are watching
hard enough.

owever, once in extremis I *did* unplug my desktop from the net and
boot up with a live fedora distro so I could use some linux software I
had. I had left my laptop at home that day, and needed to do some
processing on some images. I kept a bootable disk image of a recent
backup in my backpack all the time back then, so I could go places with
just a portable 1 TB drive instead of my laptop.   It came up fine, and
the Windows disk was not encrypted...

billo
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Thanks, everyone, for your comments Re: CIA Outlaw Country attack against CentOS / Rhel (and Fedora?) Is this credible?

[stan]

The consensus seems to agree with me, that this is a minor threat
as threats go.

I thought I was paranoid about security.  But after the comments in this
thread, I think maybe I'm not paranoid enough.  That the IT security
professionals are paranoid enough to cover their cameras? If they're
that worried they're vulnerable, it's a good bet I should be.  :-)
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Re: Thanks for a GREAT update to 23!

[Max Pyziur]

Just to join in the fun and dancing:

Three machines: one home-assembled desktop (i5, 8GG RAM, etc); two Dell 
laptops: D630 (Core 2 Duo CPU, 4GB RAM; E6220 - i5 CPU, 8GB RAM).



Started w/ the Desktop and made three efforts; on the first, it ended 
challenging me to remove a perl-DBD-Pg-Test-FC21 package; on the second, 
to remove google-earth-stable, on the third, it completed correctly.


However, on each try, a full download of all necessary packages was 
necessary, requiring two hours each time (old school Verizon DSL).


(Was it necessary to do complete downloads? Couldn't these things have 
been cached for the next effort?)


Having learned the lessons of upgrading the desktop, upgrading the E6220 
from F22 to F23 went correctly.


The D630 needed to move from F21->F22->F23. The problem there was that on 
F21, the Postgresql database version is incompatible (don't have the 
numbers in my head) w/ that of F22 and F23. Somewhere there should be a 
preamble on the next upgrade iteration that these sorts of things (those 
PostgreSQL upgrades that require a backup-and-restore) need to be done 
prior to advancing in Fedora releases. A nuisance (given that I have 
backups and some experience) that probably took 15 minutes to handle.


fyi,

MP

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Re: Thanks for a GREAT update to 23!

[François Patte]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Le 10/11/2015 17:07, Wade Hampton a écrit :
> Thanks for a GREAT update to 23!
> 
> For the first time in a long while, I had very few issues
> upgrading from earlier Fedora releases to the latest version.  Over
> the weekend, I updated two computers from F21 to F23 with only a
> few minor issues.
> 
> The F21 laptop was installed from F21 media a few months ago and
> the update was smooth except for changing the way the mouse 
> operated -- I had to click on the window bar to raise windows (now
> fixed).
> 
> The F21 desktop has been repeatedly updated since about F13.  Most
>  previous updates were painful.  This time, I had to remove a few
> programs including google-earth, then the update worked seamlessly.
>  (I have yet to test Xilinx, Arduino, Maple, and STM tools.)

Seems to be nice indeed! But, what did you exactly do?

- -- 
François Patte
UFR de mathématiques et informatique
Laboratoire CNRS MAP5, UMR 8145
Université Paris Descartes
45, rue des Saints Pères
F-75270 Paris Cedex 06
Tél. +33 (0)1 8394 5849
http://www.math-info.univ-paris5.fr/~patte
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Re: Thanks for a GREAT update to 23!

[Sylvia Sánchez]

Reading this makes me really happy. I used to make a clean install,
but now I think that I'll try an upgrade. When the time comes, I
already have Cinnamon Spin 23 and I must say that it works smoothly.
Except for Nemo that is failing randomly. But isn't Fedora fault,
happened the same and worse on Manjaro.



Cheers,
Sylvia
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Re: Thanks for a GREAT update to 23!

[Matthew Miller]

On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 11:07:52AM -0500, Wade Hampton wrote:
> Thanks for a GREAT update to 23!

Cool -- glad it went smoothly for you.

> The F21 desktop has been repeatedly updated since about F13.  Most

That's pretty impressive in itself!


-- 
Matthew Miller

Fedora Project Leader
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Thanks for a GREAT update to 23!

[Wade Hampton]

Thanks for a GREAT update to 23!

For the first time in a long while, I had very few issues upgrading
from earlier Fedora releases to the latest version.  Over the weekend,
I updated two computers from F21 to F23 with only a few minor issues.

The F21 laptop was installed from F21 media a few months ago
and the update was smooth except for changing the way the mouse
operated -- I had to click on the window bar to raise windows (now fixed).

The F21 desktop has been repeatedly updated since about F13.  Most
previous updates were painful.  This time, I had to remove a few programs
including google-earth, then the update worked seamlessly.
(I have yet to test Xilinx, Arduino, Maple, and STM tools.)

Thanks!
--
Wade Hampton
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5tFTW: Fedora 21 release on track, new leadership and thanks to the old; counting users; more... (2014-12-02)

[Matthew Miller]

Reposted from <http://fedoramagazine.org/5tftw-2014-12-02/>.


Fedora is a big project, and it’s hard to keep up with everything that
goes on. This series highlights interesting happenings in five
different areas every week. It isn’t comprehensive news coverage — just
quick summaries with links to each. Here are the five things for
December 2nd, 2014:


Fedora 21 on track for Dec. 9!
--

Things are looking good for our scheduled December 9th release. We’re
in the process of validating release candidates, and everything seems
in great shape. (And it's not too late to join in: see the announcement
on the test list if you're interested in helping.) Assuming no
unexpected showstoppers, we’ll approve this as official at the Thursday
“Go / No-Go” meeting, and then it’ll be off to the mirror network for
release next Tuesday morning!

  * 
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/test-announce/2014-December/000962.html


Presenting the New Fedora Council
-

With the conclusion of the first round of elections, the new Fedora
Council is in place! If you’ve missed it (perhaps you’re just coming by
to see what’s up with the new Fedora 21 release and this happened while
you weren’t watching), read up on it on the Fedora Council wiki
page.

Five of the six full-vote members are in place:

-   **Elected Representative:**Rex Dieter
-   **Elected Representative:**Langdon White
-   **Engineering Representative:**Josh Boyer
-   **Outreach Representative:**   Christoph Wickert
-   **Fedora Project Leader:** Matthew Miller

The sixth seat is the **Fedora Community Action and Impact
Coordinator**, which will be a full-time position hired and funded by
Red Hat’s Open Source and Standards group. (More on this job opening
here:  

  * 
http://fedoramagazine.org/fedora-community-action-and-impact-job-opening-red-hat-osas/

The council also includes a number of *auxiliary seats*. As the Council
charter explains:

> They are intended to have significant positive impact on the project
> as a whole, but in order to minimize the overall influence of
> appointed positions vs. those selected by the community, their votes
> in the consensus process are expected to be related to the scope of
> the respective role.

One of these is the **Fedora Program Manager** — Jaroslav Resnik.
Another is the **Diversity Advisor**, a position for which we will be
appointing a search committee shortly. And finally, the Council will
select **Objective Leads** — more on that on my previous Fedora
Magazine post about project objectives.

  * https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Council
  * http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:OSAS
  * http://fedoramagazine.org/lets-talk-about-fedora-project-objectives/


Thanks to the Outgoing Board


I want to offer a huge personal and also official thank you to all
previous members of the Fedora Project Board, whose care and dedication
have been instrumental in guiding Fedora to where we are today.

And I particularly want to thank the most recent board members —
Christoph Wickert, Garret Holmstrom, John Rose, Matthew Garrett, Eric
Chrstensen, Josh Boyer, Haïkel Guémar, and Neville Cross — and all
other project contributors who provided ideas, feedback, wisdom, and
significant effort in constructing the new governance model.


Fedora EMEA Gets Ready for F21
--

Jiří Eischmann has a blog post about getting the physical manifestation
of the Fedora release ready for the Europe / Middle East / Africa
region.

> I’ve been using Fedora 21 on my home computer since alpha, so it’s
> really nothing new for me, but I’m really excited about the release.
> In my opinion, it will be the most significant release since Fedora 7
> when Core and Extras got merged. It’s also been the most stable
> release of Fedora I’ve used.
>
> While Fedora QA guys are working on the final polishing as that F21
> can meet the final criteria, ambassadors are getting ready for the
> release. [...]

In addition to background notes about stickers, Jiří includes a preview
of the awesome F21 DVD sleeves designed by Alexander Smirnov (a.k.a.
“inkscaper”).

  * https://eischmann.wordpress.com/2014/11/27/getting-ready-for-fedora-21/


How many users does Fedora have?


Alec Leamas started an interesting discussion on the Fedora Devel list,
asking, “How many users does Fedora have?“. The answer is… we don’t
really know. This is notoriously hard to count, and Fedora has always
opted for more privacy-preserving options, something many in our
contributor community care very strongly about. Stephen Smoogen is
working on coming up with some graphs based on mirror traffic, but
that’s only part of the picture, and an imperfect one.

Finding useful metrics for progress towards project goals and then
iteratively acting to improve them is a 

Re: HD to SSD question. THANKS.

[Erik P. Olsen]

On 18/08/13 22:57, Erik P. Olsen wrote:

I plan to swap the HD on my laptop with an SSD of same size. Will it work OK if
I dd the HD to an external HD, swap the HD with the SSD and dd the contents back
to the SSD? I believe I can use knoppix to the process.



Thanks to everybody for providing such good advice.

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Re: F19 install wonked Solved, no thanks Nvidia

[poma]

On 07.08.2013 20:30, Les Howell wrote:
> On Wed, 2013-08-07 at 11:04 -0700, Les Howell wrote:
>> On Tue, 2013-08-06 at 12:37 -0700, Les Howell wrote:
>>> HELP!!!  I downloaded the F19 live Games DVD image, burnt the disk OK,
>>> installed OK.  Won't boot.  Mother board is ASUS UEFI system.  Don't get
>>> Grubby!!  
>>>
>>> Tried using the firmwire boot option to select the disk, no go.  So,
>>> what steps should I take to try and find this.  I can boot the live DVD
>>> OK, so tools are available.  How do I get the uefi to boot, and i want
>>> to make this system dual boot for windows for games.  I know how to set
>>> up the grub 2 after the work getting my F17 to work, so once I get
>>> grubby up, I should be able to handle the rest.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>> The system is an AMD with 6G ram, and nvidia GE FX-5200.  When I
>> attempted the install of the nvidia drivers using akmod-nvidia, I
>> mistyped the command and the numerical description had a space so I got
>> bare akmod-nvidia.  After several attempts to get to the text prompt,
>> and an attempt to get nomodeset into the boot script, I gave up and
>> nuked the installation and started over.  The system is installing again
>> now. 
>>
>> This is the most difficult installation I have yet had with Fedora,
>> fraught with issues from not being able to log in, to getting in, but
>> getting a blank screen, to having the screen go into spasms of blank
>> then slowly rebuilding the favorites sidebar, but with the mouse cursor
>> missing or a cursor and no capability to interact, to cursor
>> interacting, but giving repetitive screen wipes and rebuilds.
>>
>> Yeah, I know, ditch the Nvidia card, but my computer bucks are a bit
>> short right now.  Anyway, I am starting over, and will be sure to use
>> the efibootmgr command, and install the correct akmod-nvidia-173xx
>> driver.  Does anyone have any additional information that might help?
>>
>> by the way, even after the efibootmgr -c command, I kept getting the
>> secure mode disabled message.  There is little joy in the house right
>> now!!  Mama doesn't have her computer, and I am stymied on getting this
>> thing up and working.  
>>
>> Any and all help/pointers/etc... appreciated.
>>
>> I'm posting this message from a computer in another room, so it requires
>> that I go back and forth to look things up when the new install won't
>> bring up the internet for looking things up, just another aggravation.
>>
> Sorry to keep this single thread going, but success has reared its
> head... My wife bless her, kept the old card I pulled from one of the
> grandson's computers.  It is a radeon 7470.  Put that in and things are
> going swimmingly.  I like nvidia.  I wish they and the linux folks could
> work out some way of fully supporting their cards with acceleration and
> the whole works, directly.  But the Radeon will do the job, so Kudos to
> those guys.
> 
>  So we can call this solved, at least given a Radeon card.  Too bad,
>  nvidia, thanks for NOT playing.
> 
> 

lspci:
01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: NVIDIA Corporation NV34 [GeForce FX 5200]
Kernel driver in use: nouveau

dmesg:
nouveau  [  DEVICE][:01:00.0] Chipset: NV34 (NV34)
nouveau  [  DEVICE][:01:00.0] Family : NV30
agpgart-nvidia :00:00.0: AGP 3.0 bridge
agpgart-nvidia :00:00.0: putting AGP V3 device into 8x mode

xrandr:
DVI-I-1 connected 1920x1080+0+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y
axis) 477mm x 268mm
   1920x1080R 59.9*+

glxinfo:
name of display: :0
display: :0  screen: 0
direct rendering: Yes
server glx vendor string: SGI
server glx version string: 1.4
client glx vendor string: Mesa Project and SGI
client glx version string: 1.4
client glx extensions:
GLX version: 1.4
OpenGL vendor string: nouveau
OpenGL renderer string: Gallium 0.4 on NV34
OpenGL version string: 1.5 Mesa 9.2.0-devel

xfconf-query -c xfwm4 -p /general/use_compositing
true


poma


Ref.
http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/CodeNames
http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/FeatureMatrix


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Re: F19 install wonked Solved, no thanks Nvidia

[Les Howell]

On Wed, 2013-08-07 at 11:04 -0700, Les Howell wrote:
> On Tue, 2013-08-06 at 12:37 -0700, Les Howell wrote:
> > HELP!!!  I downloaded the F19 live Games DVD image, burnt the disk OK,
> > installed OK.  Won't boot.  Mother board is ASUS UEFI system.  Don't get
> > Grubby!!  
> > 
> > Tried using the firmwire boot option to select the disk, no go.  So,
> > what steps should I take to try and find this.  I can boot the live DVD
> > OK, so tools are available.  How do I get the uefi to boot, and i want
> > to make this system dual boot for windows for games.  I know how to set
> > up the grub 2 after the work getting my F17 to work, so once I get
> > grubby up, I should be able to handle the rest.
> > 
> > Thanks!
> > 
> The system is an AMD with 6G ram, and nvidia GE FX-5200.  When I
> attempted the install of the nvidia drivers using akmod-nvidia, I
> mistyped the command and the numerical description had a space so I got
> bare akmod-nvidia.  After several attempts to get to the text prompt,
> and an attempt to get nomodeset into the boot script, I gave up and
> nuked the installation and started over.  The system is installing again
> now. 
> 
> This is the most difficult installation I have yet had with Fedora,
> fraught with issues from not being able to log in, to getting in, but
> getting a blank screen, to having the screen go into spasms of blank
> then slowly rebuilding the favorites sidebar, but with the mouse cursor
> missing or a cursor and no capability to interact, to cursor
> interacting, but giving repetitive screen wipes and rebuilds.
> 
> Yeah, I know, ditch the Nvidia card, but my computer bucks are a bit
> short right now.  Anyway, I am starting over, and will be sure to use
> the efibootmgr command, and install the correct akmod-nvidia-173xx
> driver.  Does anyone have any additional information that might help?
> 
> by the way, even after the efibootmgr -c command, I kept getting the
> secure mode disabled message.  There is little joy in the house right
> now!!  Mama doesn't have her computer, and I am stymied on getting this
> thing up and working.  
> 
> Any and all help/pointers/etc... appreciated.
> 
> I'm posting this message from a computer in another room, so it requires
> that I go back and forth to look things up when the new install won't
> bring up the internet for looking things up, just another aggravation.
> 
Sorry to keep this single thread going, but success has reared its
head... My wife bless her, kept the old card I pulled from one of the
grandson's computers.  It is a radeon 7470.  Put that in and things are
going swimmingly.  I like nvidia.  I wish they and the linux folks could
work out some way of fully supporting their cards with acceleration and
the whole works, directly.  But the Radeon will do the job, so Kudos to
those guys.

 So we can call this solved, at least given a Radeon card.  Too bad,
 nvidia, thanks for NOT playing.


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Re: Special thanks to Fedora developers, this list, and the moderators...

[Ranjan Maitra]

This list is fabulous, I agree! I have learnt so much here.Fedora
is always my distro from F1 (circa 2003) for this very reason!

Ranjan

On Mon, 29 Jul 2013 10:00:45 -0400  wrote:

> I'm sitting here sipping coffee and feeling sentimental. I feel like 
> sharing a few of those sentiments:
> 
> 1) Thank you to all the fedora/linux developers who contribute all their 
> time and energy for FREE. It's a great OS and it's such a joy with which 
> to work. It is also brainfood, especially to those of us who are 
> clueless newbies. Your time and efforts are greatly appreciated...
> 
> 2) Thank you to this list for all the free help. This list is an 
> excellent "security blanket" for those of us who are less capable...
> 
> 3) Thanks to the moderators, who have the thankless task of enduring 
> crap from all sides. Many of us realize that you're frequently caught in 
> the middle and are frequently in no-win situations and must endure 
> insults, whining, etc..
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FREE 3D MARINE AQUARIUM SCREENSAVER - Watch dolphins, sharks & orcas on your 
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Check it out at http://www.inbox.com/marineaquarium


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Special thanks to Fedora developers, this list, and the moderators...

[linuxnutster]

I'm sitting here sipping coffee and feeling sentimental. I feel like 
sharing a few of those sentiments:


1) Thank you to all the fedora/linux developers who contribute all their 
time and energy for FREE. It's a great OS and it's such a joy with which 
to work. It is also brainfood, especially to those of us who are 
clueless newbies. Your time and efforts are greatly appreciated...


2) Thank you to this list for all the free help. This list is an 
excellent "security blanket" for those of us who are less capable...


3) Thanks to the moderators, who have the thankless task of enduring 
crap from all sides. Many of us realize that you're frequently caught in 
the middle and are frequently in no-win situations and must endure 
insults, whining, etc..

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Re: Thanks Tim for your nice guidance ?

[Ed Greshko]

I pretty much agree with Tim.

It sure sounds like you want to find out how you can circumvent your 
university's policies in Linux.

So, if we have misunderstood your intentions please enlighten us.
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Thanks Tim for your nice guidance ?

[Navdeep Singh Sidhu]

Respected Sir,

First of all i have posted this topic on this list because i want to gain
some knowledge on this topic , secondly i expected some help on this topic,
because of this problem in our university nobody is even ready to give a
try to Linux system. i just want to give them a reason to not to ignore
Linux & i'm getting bored of listening same stories what windows can do &
Linux can't do , again & again.

Just for reference if you want to see Facebook market in india you can go :
businesstoday.intoday.in/story/facebook-user-count-at-955-mn-84-per-cent-jump-in-india/1/186943.html

And just for knowledge isn't the basic (or what we can say motto?) of
internet is to provide Interconnection for Free or freedom to use
intercommunication. Same as open source's freedom.
Wisdom to Information is called knowledge. & I just want that knowledge.
And if somebody blocks us to do something it just makes us more curious to
do that. So, nothing can stop me getting knowledge.

And i'm not so dumb that i will compromise security of my university plus i
trust my mentors (network admins) they are skilled enough to secure our
networks.

If you are trying to threaten me. T give you assurance that it has no
effect on me. I'm a seeker of knowledge & lover of freedom. So if you think
you can stop me give it your best & Best of Luck from me. And a free advice
from me "where polite guidance can work, threatening can have reverse
effects on same place". So try to be polite & nice & never give advice to
others when you are pissed on somebody else.

I wonder what kind of a developer you are( also those whom you consider
with you while using 'WE') who don't the or don't respect the value of
knowledge & freedom.

Respectfully thanks again !

Regards
Navdeep Singh

Please if you want see a nice & positive answer see this reply.

 --

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 11:50:06 +0530
From: Ninad Pundalik 
To: Ubuntu India Local Community 
Subject: Re: [ubuntu-in] Why proxy-chains doesn't works ? Is there any
full proof mathos to use local proxy on Linux ?
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Hi Navneet,

I'm not sure if anyone from this list should be responding to this email.

1. Ubuntu-in is not a place to discuss how to break rules. If your
college specifies rules, then they are applicable for your network,
and we will NOT help there.
2. Sending this list to the kernel team and ubuntu-devel is an
extremely bad idea. They have absolutely no relation with your issue.
3. Asking your IT admins nicely enough should be a good enough
solution. Have you tried figuring out why are Linux repos blocked? Is
it due to a bandwidth limit? If yes, you could convince someone from
the college IT to set up a local apt-proxy or apt-cacher (or the
equivalent yum servers) and provide you a way out.

Not all IT Admins are, some infact love to see you grow as a
hacker (the white hat sense, if there's any such sense). Get to know
them well, and they might even support you later in your Open Source
activities.

Ninad



--

-- Forwarded message --

> From: Tim 
> To: Community support for Fedora users 
> Cc:
> Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2012 08:55:24 +0930
> Subject: Re: Why proxy-chains doesn't works ? Is there any full proof
> mathos to use local proxy on Linux ?
> On Tue, 2012-09-04 at 00:41 +0530, Navdeep Singh Sidhu wrote:
> > there is a client management software (Cyberroam's Corporate Client)
> > is installed on our Internet system through which we access
> > internet. They have blocked many sites like packages.medibuntu.com &
> > other many sites like social networking sites. Actually i can access
> > all these sites using proxifier on windows using a local proxy & open
> > port. But on Linux i have no luck
>
> Properly speaking, we really should report you to your admin, rather
> than try and help you break the rules for using your network.  Think
> more about what you're wanting to do, before asking someone else to help
> you do anything like this.  Those restrictions are there for a reason.
>
> --
> [tim@localhost ~]$ uname -r
> 2.6.27.25-78.2.56.fc9.i686
>
> Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored.  I
> read messages from the public lists.
>
>
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Re: Thanks and one more XFCE question - USB devices, was Re: XFCE keyboard and windowing functionality loss

[Rick Stevens]

On 08/21/2012 10:56 AM, Max Pyziur uttered this comment:

On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 21:24:05 -0400 (EDT)
Max Pyziur  wrote:


[...]


I know that there is an oddity/bug  in XFCE that the keyboard stops
functioning if you hold down one of the shift keys for too long.

But this seems to be something very differt.

If anyone has experienced this problem and resolved it, please share
your solution.

Otherwise, it's into the Gnome 3 world.


Sounds like (as several other folks have mentioned) xfwm4 died.

If you can get to a terminal, do:

xfwm4 --replace &

If you cannot, you can try clearing your session out and logging in
again:

rm ~/.cache/sessions/xfce4-sessions*

Note that this will clear out things like what applications you had
running, etc.

Hope that helps.


Much thanks for this and similar replies. It looks as though this is the
course to take in order to correct this issue.

I have two machines where I have been using the Xfce desktop, a Dell
laptop (Inspiron 600m) and a home-built 64-bit dual-core.

When I insert a USB flash drive on the 64-bit machine, an icon shows up on
the desktop. Right-clicking on the icon shows a menu that allows me to
mount the drive.

On the i386 laptop, no icons appear when a USB flash drive is inserted. A
file browser window is opened; then clicking on the USB drive gets the
drive mounted.

Is there some place in the settings to make the behavior of the i386 more
like that of the x64?


Go to "Applications Menu->Settings->Removable Drives and Media" and
look at the "Storage" tab. Make sure both machines have the same
options set up. You can have drives automount, browse, etc. Odds are
you have differences between the machines.
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Thanks and one more XFCE question - USB devices, was Re: XFCE keyboard and windowing functionality loss

[Max Pyziur]

> On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 21:24:05 -0400 (EDT)
> Max Pyziur  wrote:

[...]

>> I know that there is an oddity/bug  in XFCE that the keyboard stops
>> functioning if you hold down one of the shift keys for too long.
>>
>> But this seems to be something very differt.
>>
>> If anyone has experienced this problem and resolved it, please share
>> your solution.
>>
>> Otherwise, it's into the Gnome 3 world.
>
> Sounds like (as several other folks have mentioned) xfwm4 died.
>
> If you can get to a terminal, do:
>
> xfwm4 --replace &
>
> If you cannot, you can try clearing your session out and logging in
> again:
>
> rm ~/.cache/sessions/xfce4-sessions*
>
> Note that this will clear out things like what applications you had
> running, etc.
>
> Hope that helps.

Much thanks for this and similar replies. It looks as though this is the
course to take in order to correct this issue.

I have two machines where I have been using the Xfce desktop, a Dell
laptop (Inspiron 600m) and a home-built 64-bit dual-core.

When I insert a USB flash drive on the 64-bit machine, an icon shows up on
the desktop. Right-clicking on the icon shows a menu that allows me to
mount the drive.

On the i386 laptop, no icons appear when a USB flash drive is inserted. A
file browser window is opened; then clicking on the USB drive gets the
drive mounted.

Is there some place in the settings to make the behavior of the i386 more
like that of the x64?

> kevin
> --

Much thanks.

Max Pyziur
p...@brama.com
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Thanks for: F17: trying to diagnose problem with external USB drive

[M. Fioretti]

On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 22:39:16 PM -0500, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:

> If you are trying to put 110 GB on a 128 GB drive, you are probably
> running out of room. Run "df -h" when the drive is mounted, and see
> how much space the drive has after things like the space used by
> formatting the drive, and possible differences in how 1 GB is
> figured are taken into account.

sorry, I forgot to answer this! I have not checked yet (haven't had
that drive with me in the last weeks, that's why), but thinking to
what kind of files were being transferred, you're very likely right,
and I just need a bigger drive.

Thanks to everybody who helped!

Marco
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Re: F16 rocks. Thanks.

[Lee]

>
> On 06/27/2012 04:02 PM, Hiisi wrote:
>>
>> On 27 June 2012 20:05, linux guy  wrote:
>>>
>>> I've been using F16 since before Christmas and I must say that it has
>>> become a very polished and powerful release.
>>>
>>> Kudos to those who have worked so hard on it.   We don't thank you
>>> people enough.  Your work is greatly appreciated.
>>>
>> F16 is from the previous century. Now is f17 era. Anyway, thank you,
developers.
>
>
> Even though Fedora 17 is the current release of Fedora, and F18 is on the
way I'm still using Fedora 16 and until I have a dire need to upgrade I
don't think I'll be doing so until it's EOL. I'm not going to keep jumping
from version to version just because they've been released. Especially when
sometimes they may have an adverse affect on some  piece of hardware of
some software. But I also want to echo the sentiment...so..."to the
individuals who struggle, toil, and beat away on an "almost perfect" OS
Many thanks and please don't EVER stop the great work you're doingO
>
> Cheers!
>
> EGO II
>
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Yes before finding Gentoo, it was my go to distro. For a binary based
distro, it's at the top of my list.

Terry
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Re: F16 rocks. Thanks.

[Eddie G.O'Connor Jr-I]

On 06/27/2012 04:02 PM, Hiisi wrote:

On 27 June 2012 20:05, linux guy  wrote:

I've been using F16 since before Christmas and I must say that it has
become a very polished and powerful release.

Kudos to those who have worked so hard on it.   We don't thank you
people enough.  Your work is greatly appreciated.


F16 is from the previous century. Now is f17 era. Anyway, thank you, developers.


Even though Fedora 17 is the current release of Fedora, and F18 is on 
the way I'm still using Fedora 16 and until I have a dire need to 
upgrade I don't think I'll be doing so until it's EOL. I'm not going to 
keep jumping from version to version just because they've been released. 
Especially when sometimes they may have an adverse affect on some  piece 
of hardware of some software. But I also want to echo the 
sentiment...so..."to the individuals who struggle, toil, and beat away 
on an "almost perfect" OS Many thanks and please don't EVER stop the 
great work you're doing!


Cheers!

EGO II
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Re: F16 rocks. Thanks.

[Hiisi]

On 27 June 2012 20:05, linux guy  wrote:
> I've been using F16 since before Christmas and I must say that it has
> become a very polished and powerful release.
>
> Kudos to those who have worked so hard on it.   We don't thank you
> people enough.  Your work is greatly appreciated.
>

F16 is from the previous century. Now is f17 era. Anyway, thank you, developers.
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F16 rocks. Thanks.

[linux guy]

I've been using F16 since before Christmas and I must say that it has
become a very polished and powerful release.

Kudos to those who have worked so hard on it.   We don't thank you
people enough.  Your work is greatly appreciated.
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[ALREADY SOLVED BUT THANKS FOR REPLY:] Re: dumb question

[Paul Allen Newell]

[inline:]

On 1/4/2012 6:00 PM, Mark LaPierre wrote:


Hey Paul,

If you want a file to be executable it must be +x.  If the file is 
read as input to another program it needs not be +x.


I've always known that to execute a file, it must be "+x". If I am not 
directly executing it, who needs the "+x". The leap of faith regarding 
makefiles came from the answers in this list. I just never really had a 
proper mindset to what the relationship of make to makefile and, given 
that there is no #! in the makefile yet it has lots of stuff which sure 
makes it feel like a "shell-style" script, I needed someone to tell me 
"this is how to look at a makefile". I got that thanks to this list and 
a bunch more info which is good for me.


Example 1:

[...]

Example 2:

[...].



I've know this for awhile (though I don't want to embarress myself too 
much by saying how long it took me to figure out "#! /bin/whatever" as I 
was stuck for the longest time on looking at it going "but the # means 
its a comment" (smile))


Now, to be specific to your question, the same principle applies.  
Your -x Makefile/makefile is not an executable file.  It contains a 
list of instructions the /usr/bin/make executable interprets.  The 
executable is /usr/bin/make.


I wish I had been able to think that through ... something about a 
makefile seemed different and I just didn't make the leap. Mental block, 
brain fart, whatever. Its been bugging me for a long time and I just got 
so frustrated at not being able to see it.





You do not have to supply the name of the makefile, as long its name 
is makefile, because /usr/bin/make defaults to that file name


I'm using Makefile solely out of habit and have created alternate "make 
files" of various names.


The makefile is not being executed but /usr/bin/make is executed and 
it is using the contents of the makefile as input to guide its 
processing.


Yup, it all makes sense now

Thanks,
Paul


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Re: Thanks Joel.. and "Does the computer "think"..?

[Joel Rees]

On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 8:00 AM, Linda McLeod  wrote:
> Much Thanks Dear Joel..

Erk.

> I am researching your great advice dude..

That's nice to know.

> The data I need to protect, is the new sciences I saw in the Bigfoot
> collective, [...]

No computer technology available to handle that one. Sorry.

Just use ordinary care, since nothing more will come close to doing the job.

> ___
>
>
> New topic:  Does the computer "think"..?

Yes, but not in the ways humans do.

> [...]
> In my working with computers, for a couple decades, there have been
> times the computer seemed to actually "think out" its problems, and
> solve them, more than just "juggling 1's and 0's"..

Sometimes random calculation is confused with thinking.

And sometimes limits on the programmed algebrae force the calculations
back to paths which stabilize themselves in ways that appear coherent
to us (and may even stay stable long enough for us to reboot the
system).

> I know it's just
> based on 1's and 0's, off's and on's.. but isn't that how the human
> brain works too..?

No. Binary logic is not natural to most of the human brain, nor to the
mind. It's something we have to coerce or train, although it also
turns out to be a failure mode in some of our cognitive pathways.

> and how the brain thinks in processing thought..?
> But most don't think because they just can't, or they once used the
> mind, and it frightened them, so now they boycott thinking, and prefer
> to create and run habits right to the end...
> Isn't the computer based on how the human brain works..?

No. See above. The computer is based on much simpler math than how our
brains work.

> [...]
> Look at how Fedora repairs itself...

See above about random calculation.

> [...]
> Ask yourself..  "Where does new science come from..?"..
> [...]

In order for us to converse coherently with each other on technical
topics here, we have all agreed not to talk about God (in other words,
the ultimate cause, and other such aspects thereof) here, but to do so
in other forums. Were God to provide us with a general, complete spec
sheet for the human mind, that would still be off-topic here because
Fedora and the hardware it runs on are much, much more restricted.

I'd point you to my blog, but I think you probably want to focus on
Shneier's work on secure systems for a while.
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Re: Thanks Joel.. and "Does the computer "think"..?

[Joel Rees]

LOL

On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 8:22 AM, Patrick Lists
 wrote:
> On 29-12-11 00:00, Linda McLeod wrote:
>
> Why is it possible for tens of thousands of subscribers to this list to
> follow the mailing list guidelines, respect the goal of this mailing list
> and show proper conduct when participating, except you?

Judging from the name, I'd guess Linda is female.

> What makes you so special that you think the rules do not apply to you? That
> you think you can show such blatant disrespect?

If Linda is female, this question is incorrect.
(Females are by definition special.)

> Why do you choose to ignore several posts that point out that you are out of
> line. Why do you continue your ridiculous behavior?

See above.

> It's time for you to leave.

And deny us the glory of her presence?

(Heh. Relax. Unfortunately, not all women who join tech lists have
figured men out to the degree that the Wilson sisters have. ;-)

(Or use your filters.)
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Re: Thanks Joel.. and "Does the computer "think"..?

[Patrick Lists]

On 29-12-11 00:00, Linda McLeod wrote:

Why is it possible for tens of thousands of subscribers to this list to 
follow the mailing list guidelines, respect the goal of this mailing 
list and show proper conduct when participating, except you?


What makes you so special that you think the rules do not apply to you? 
That you think you can show such blatant disrespect?


Why do you choose to ignore several posts that point out that you are 
out of line. Why do you continue your ridiculous behavior?


It's time for you to leave.

Patrick
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Re: Thanks Joel.. and "Does the computer "think"..?

[Joe Zeff]

On 12/28/2011 03:00 PM, Linda McLeod wrote:

Disclaimer:  All those who can't handle new stuff without freaking,

fnord

should not read this post.. Go to the next post.. Don't read my stuff..
It'll only cause you conditioning headaches, and make you want to hurt

fnord

the author..  Just don't read it if you can't handle newness without
being an AH..

fnord
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Re: Thanks Joel.. and "Does the computer "think"..?

[Reindl Harald]

Am 29.12.2011 00:00, schrieb Linda McLeod:
> Much Thanks Dear Joel..
> 
> I am researching your great advice dude..
> 
> The data I need to protect, is the new sciences I saw in the Bigfoot
> collective, after a female adolescent one touched my neck twice, which
> paralysed me for eight excruciating hours while she scanned my
> memories.. but I asked "may I scan you while you scan me?", and got
> permission..  I saw 14 layers of sciences, and made a copy for myself
> before they ejected me from their collective consciousness...  That's
> 1400 untapped sciences, 100+ technologies in each.. more than enough to
> get our Species to other healthy planets..

can you PLEASE stop wasting others time with your science-fiction
stories with no single relevance to fedora or computers at all?



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Thanks Joel.. and "Does the computer "think"..?

[Linda McLeod]

Much Thanks Dear Joel..

I am researching your great advice dude..

The data I need to protect, is the new sciences I saw in the Bigfoot
collective, after a female adolescent one touched my neck twice, which
paralysed me for eight excruciating hours while she scanned my
memories.. but I asked "may I scan you while you scan me?", and got
permission..  I saw 14 layers of sciences, and made a copy for myself
before they ejected me from their collective consciousness...  That's
1400 untapped sciences, 100+ technologies in each.. more than enough to
get our Species to other healthy planets..  But I can't do it alone..
and I sure can't do it with those mindless-kooks torturing me daily, to
appease their cocaine soaked psychotic bosses vengeances for me
publishing that we need to eliminate the coke-heads from our
government.. and they knows it...  Essentially "the apes are doing crime
for their handlers", but they don't have the mind to realize it...

___


New topic:  Does the computer "think"..?

Disclaimer:  All those who can't handle new stuff without freaking,
should not read this post.. Go to the next post.. Don't read my stuff.. 
It'll only cause you conditioning headaches, and make you want to hurt
the author..  Just don't read it if you can't handle newness without
being an AH..  This isn't for you.. Get that..  This is for the thinkers
only...  The gist of this post exposes the very reason there are free
Linux OS's in this world, for the good folk...  If thinking hurts your
head, just don't read it..  Quit comparing yourself to others, and quit
trying to break all that which is better than you..  I can process
thought that you cannot.. Get over it!.. If you break something, it
doesn't give that something to you, you breaks it only, you destroy the
good stuff in your future before you gets to it and you lose it
forever.. You breaks it "at the gate".. It isn't for you to eat!.. Get
it! & WAKE UP!..  I am just a tiny link in humanity's evolution.. Quit
trying to break it..  If you break this one, you don't get any more.. 
I'm the last...

_


Can the computer "think"..?

In my working with computers, for a couple decades, there have been
times the computer seemed to actually "think out" its problems, and
solve them, more than just "juggling 1's and 0's".. I know it's just
based on 1's and 0's, off's and on's.. but isn't that how the human
brain works too..? and how the brain thinks in processing thought..? 
But most don't think because they just can't, or they once used the
mind, and it frightened them, so now they boycott thinking, and prefer
to create and run habits right to the end...
Isn't the computer based on how the human brain works..?

Some firewalls have it to update themselves perfectly, and go around
problems by going right through them, as if solving them...  "Black Ice"
was good for that, in W-98... "WhooHH! just thinking of "thet thar W-98
nightmare", gives me a nasty icy cold shudder, "shivers me timbers" it
does...

Look into what "Maya" does.. That's got to be close to "thinking", or
maybe even better...

Look at how Fedora repairs itself...


Does anyone have any keen examples that made them wonder if the computer
is actually thinking..?

If the computer could think, what processes would it perform..?


This "skin-graft PC" keyboard, mouse, and screen obsoleted, just might
act as an accessory "human mind"..  I fear it's gonna be needed in the
near future, given that humanity's collective mind ems to be dying or
devolving, from various causes..  
For one, religion teaches that "an idle mind is bad".. An idle relaxed
mind is what our great scientists used, to get us all the science we
have today.. It ain't a bad thing..  It seem that religion just religion
stifles the mind and thinking.. Religion doesn't want its followers to
see and know any truth and reality "out of the tithing box"...  
That, and the fact that cellphone radiation is baking brains.. coke and
meth and prescription drugs are melting brain tissue.. the lead and
copper in the drinking water is poisoning brain tissue.. Alcohol is
desiccating brain tissue.. religion, politics, and TV, are programming
and conditioning brains and thought process to force the culture to be
as slave society.. and who knows what the pesticides in our food do to
us..? And the solvents in the air too.. Go outside and take-in a slow
deep full breath.. Notice toward the end of the in-breathe, the pungent
stings of the solvents hitting the nose sensors..  That's a lot of good
reasons to build a synthetic mind for humanity...

I had idea how to alpha-couple, and beta-couple, the P

Thanks for help / FOSS Java article

[fernando]

Hi there,

Thanks for all clarifications about Java in Fedora and FOSS Java. My
article is on-line on InfoQ Brasil (portuguese only, sorry) at:

http://www.infoq.com/br/articles/java-opensource
[]s, Fernando Lozano


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Re: Thanks to Fedora community; Installation & Disk Partitioning ISSUE

[Linux Tyro]

On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 11:51 AM, Tim  wrote:

Tim:
> >> Suspend does it to RAM.  So your computer needs (minimal) power
> >> continuously available to it, to keep what it's stuffed into memory.
> >> If the memory is lost, then the next boot will be a cold boot.
>
> Linux Tyro:
> > But without intentionally deleting memory, how could it be lost except
> > for the case that power has gone and I am not using UPSCold boot
> > simply means that it doesn't need credentials to log-on?
>
> Your power fails, your laptop battery goes flat, your laptop goes into a
> power save mode that's inadequate for keeping the RAM contents intact...
>
> I've always wondered about the last one, since computers use dynamic
> RAM, these days, you can't just keep supplying power to the RAM, it
> needs constantly refreshing.
>
>
> > But still how thief can log-in when I have encrypted password,
> > password necessary to boot in, disabled booting via CD-rom, disabled
> > booting via usb. Still chances are there that the thief can crack in ?
>
> With a cold boot, a thief would have to break all your encryption before
> they could attempt to hack in.  They've got to get it to boot, before
> they can hack it.
>
> With a resume, the drive is already mounted to the system in an
> un-encrypted manner, just there's no currently logged in user.  That's
> the state that a hibernated/suspended machine will resume to (running,
> but keyboard/mouse locked out until you login).
>
> They've only got to manage to log in.  If you've left servers running,
> there may be one that's vulnerable to a hack.  If you've left a mail
> client running, it may be spewing your password straight out the network
> port, every few minutes.
>
> Of course, if you have a computer that auto-logs you in without you
> entering any password, or you have suspend/hibernate not lock access
> away during the suspend/hibernate process, a resume/boot-up will let
> anybody straight in unchallenged.
> >
> >> Some sort of hardware token, such as a key that must be inserted
> >> while booting, but is kept separate from the computer, is the
> >> simplest way to avoid that problem.
> >
> > This I didn't understand how to achieve, but thanks for the above
> > explanation.
>
> You're welcome, and I don't have a ready answer for how one might go
> about doing it.  But it's the kind of thing you'd have to do (making
> booting and resuming dependent on something that you kept separate from
> the laptop).


Ah, got the diea, thanks.

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Re: Thanks to Fedora community; Installation & Disk Partitioning ISSUE

[Tim]

Tim:
>> Suspend does it to RAM.  So your computer needs (minimal) power
>> continuously available to it, to keep what it's stuffed into memory. 
>> If the memory is lost, then the next boot will be a cold boot.

Linux Tyro:
> But without intentionally deleting memory, how could it be lost except
> for the case that power has gone and I am not using UPSCold boot
> simply means that it doesn't need credentials to log-on?

Your power fails, your laptop battery goes flat, your laptop goes into a
power save mode that's inadequate for keeping the RAM contents intact...

I've always wondered about the last one, since computers use dynamic
RAM, these days, you can't just keep supplying power to the RAM, it
needs constantly refreshing.


> But still how thief can log-in when I have encrypted password,
> password necessary to boot in, disabled booting via CD-rom, disabled
> booting via usb. Still chances are there that the thief can crack in ?

With a cold boot, a thief would have to break all your encryption before
they could attempt to hack in.  They've got to get it to boot, before
they can hack it.

With a resume, the drive is already mounted to the system in an
un-encrypted manner, just there's no currently logged in user.  That's
the state that a hibernated/suspended machine will resume to (running,
but keyboard/mouse locked out until you login).

They've only got to manage to log in.  If you've left servers running,
there may be one that's vulnerable to a hack.  If you've left a mail
client running, it may be spewing your password straight out the network
port, every few minutes.

Of course, if you have a computer that auto-logs you in without you
entering any password, or you have suspend/hibernate not lock access
away during the suspend/hibernate process, a resume/boot-up will let
anybody straight in unchallenged.
> 
>> Some sort of hardware token, such as a key that must be inserted
>> while booting, but is kept separate from the computer, is the
>> simplest way to avoid that problem.
> 
> This I didn't understand how to achieve, but thanks for the above
> explanation.

You're welcome, and I don't have a ready answer for how one might go
about doing it.  But it's the kind of thing you'd have to do (making
booting and resuming dependent on something that you kept separate from
the laptop).
> 

-- 
[tim@localhost ~]$ uname -r
2.6.27.25-78.2.56.fc9.i686

Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored.  I
read messages from the public lists.



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Re: Thanks to Fedora community; Installation & Disk Partitioning ISSUE

[Linux Tyro]

On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 7:28 AM, Reindl Harald wrote:

> But without intentionally deleting memory, how could it be lost except
> for the case
> > that power has gone and I am not using UPSCold boot simply means
> that it doesn't
> > need credentials to log-on?
>
> cold boot means a normal boot from powered off state because if you lost
> power-supply
> while suspend to RAM is active your state IS powered off
>

Ah well.

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Re: Thanks to Fedora community; Installation & Disk Partitioning ISSUE

[Linux Tyro]

On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 6:17 AM, Tim  wrote:


> With suspend and hibernate, the computer stores everything that it's
> currently doing (documents your reading/editing, pages you're browsing,
> etc), so that when you wake the computer up, you resume from where you
> left off.
>
> Hibernate stores it to hard drive, and the next bootup will read this
> and resume, automatically.
>
> Suspend does it to RAM.  So your computer needs (minimal) power
> continuously available to it, to keep what it's stuffed into memory.  If
> the memory is lost, then the next boot will be a cold boot.
>

But without intentionally deleting memory, how could it be lost except for
the case that power has gone and I am not using UPSCold boot simply
means that it doesn't need credentials to log-on?


> When it works, resuming from a suspend can be quicker.  Hence why the
> riskier option exists.
>
> Both are security hazards, though.  If you have an encrypted system, to
> protect you against what a thief could do with your data, being able to
> resume makes it easier for them to crack in.  Because resume will only
> ask you for a log on password, the cold boot decrypt password query was
> answered, by you, when you originally booted up.
>

But still how thief can log-in when I have encrypted password, password
necessary to boot in, disabled booting via CD-rom, disabled booting via
usb. Still chances are there that the thief can crack in ?

Some sort of hardware token, such as a key that must be inserted while
> booting, but is kept separate from the computer, is the simplest way to
> avoid that problem.
>

This I didn't understand how to achieve, but thanks for the above
explanation. Now, I know the difference between Hibernation and Suspension.
Would prefer it now.

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Re: Thanks to Fedora community; Installation & Disk Partitioning ISSUE

[Tim]

On Mon, 2011-11-07 at 01:47 -0500, Linux Tyro wrote:
> Hibernation and Suspension of distro -- these options are a little
> typical for me at least, I just either logout or Shut down.
>  
> Logout - The current user logs out of the session.
> Restart - To restart the computer to get back the session.
> Shutdown - The machine is off now.
>  
> IN the definitions of the above form (the above three) can simple tell
> me the same about 'Hibernate' and 'Suspend', as simple as written
> above so that the broader non technical community can understand?

With suspend and hibernate, the computer stores everything that it's
currently doing (documents your reading/editing, pages you're browsing,
etc), so that when you wake the computer up, you resume from where you
left off.

Hibernate stores it to hard drive, and the next bootup will read this
and resume, automatically.

Suspend does it to RAM.  So your computer needs (minimal) power
continuously available to it, to keep what it's stuffed into memory.  If
the memory is lost, then the next boot will be a cold boot.

When it works, resuming from a suspend can be quicker.  Hence why the
riskier option exists.

Both are security hazards, though.  If you have an encrypted system, to
protect you against what a thief could do with your data, being able to
resume makes it easier for them to crack in.  Because resume will only
ask you for a log on password, the cold boot decrypt password query was
answered, by you, when you originally booted up.

Some sort of hardware token, such as a key that must be inserted while
booting, but is kept separate from the computer, is the simplest way to
avoid that problem.

-- 
[tim@localhost ~]$ uname -r
2.6.27.25-78.2.56.fc9.i686

Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored.  I
read messages from the public lists.



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Re: Thanks to Fedora community; Installation & Disk Partitioning ISSUE

[Linux Tyro]

On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 9:47 AM, Greg Woods  wrote:

All this was just an answer to the question "why would anybody ever want
> to boot from /home". I don't claim this is the optimal setup.
>

Yes, it was just a question for information point of view, and now cleared
that /home is for the data storage purpose and separate so that newer
installation(s) / up-gradation(s) doesn't show any data loss - that's why.

However, people with their different intention(s) separate even /var, /tmp,
/boot with their personal choice. I cannot do that until I get my legs
weight a little!

On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 2:02 PM, Greg Woods  wrote:

Yes, unfortunately, whether Linux suspend and/or hibernate will work
> well is a function of exactly what hardware you have. I think it's
> gotten a lot better, and it works on most anything I have tried it with,
> but as you point out, there are still some laptops where it just doesn't
> work.
>

Hibernation and Suspension of distro -- these options are a little typical
for me at least, I just either logout or Shut down.

Logout - The current user logs out of the session.
Restart - To restart the computer to get back the session.
Shutdown - The machine is off now.

IN the definitions of the above form (the above three) can simple tell me
the same about 'Hibernate' and 'Suspend', as simple as written above so
that the broader non technical community can understand?


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Re: Thanks to Fedora community; Installation & Disk Partitioning ISSUE

[Greg Woods]

On Mon, 2011-11-07 at 04:50 +1030, Tim wrote:

> Then you have funny things, like:  A laptop that will suspend and wake
> up, but goes permanently into a coma if you try to hibernate then wake
> up.  

Yes, unfortunately, whether Linux suspend and/or hibernate will work
well is a function of exactly what hardware you have. I think it's
gotten a lot better, and it works on most anything I have tried it with,
but as you point out, there are still some laptops where it just doesn't
work.

--Greg


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Re: Thanks to Fedora community; Installation & Disk Partitioning ISSUE

[Greg Woods]

On Mon, 2011-11-07 at 04:51 +1030, Tim wrote:
> On Sun, 2011-11-06 at 07:43 -0700, Greg Woods wrote:
> > The /boot partition is where Fedora boots from. It contains a
> > grub/grub.conf file for booting various Fedora kernels. I need some
> > other partition to use for the main boot loader.
> 
> You can have more than one boot partition

True enough, but again, the first time I did this was on a system that
didn't have any extra partitions or free space, so creating another
partition specifically to hold boot files wasn't an option (short of
dumping an entire FS, shrinking the partition to create space for
another partition, rebuilding the file system, and restoring the data.
That option just didn't really occur to me). I agree that, all other
things being equal, that would be a better way to do it.

--Greg


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Re: Thanks to Fedora community; Installation & Disk Partitioning ISSUE

[Joe Zeff]

On 11/06/2011 10:21 AM, Tim wrote:
> You can have more than one boot partition, you can even give them all
> the same name (which can be a nuisance to sort through), or different
> names (a bit more logical).

If that's what you want, you're probably best off giving them 
descriptive labels, such as Fedora_boot, Ubuntu_boot and so on and refer 
to them that way in your various distro's fstab.
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Re: Thanks to Fedora community; Installation & Disk Partitioning ISSUE

[Tim]

On Sun, 2011-11-06 at 07:43 -0700, Greg Woods wrote:
> The /boot partition is where Fedora boots from. It contains a
> grub/grub.conf file for booting various Fedora kernels. I need some
> other partition to use for the main boot loader.

You can have more than one boot partition, you can even give them all
the same name (which can be a nuisance to sort through), or different
names (a bit more logical).

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Re: Thanks to Fedora community; Installation & Disk Partitioning ISSUE

[Tim]

On Sun, 2011-11-06 at 07:59 -0700, Greg Woods wrote:
> Essentially, hibernation is a method of writing the contents of RAM
> and the CPU registers to the swap space, then powering down the
> computer. When the computer comes back on, it reloads the RAM and the
> CPU registers from the hard drive, and you can carry on from where you
> left off. ...
>  
> This is as opposed to suspend, which preserves the contents of RAM and
> only writes a little bit of additional information to RAM required to
> preserve the system state, then shuts down everything except the RAM.
> This is much faster than hibernation, but it does require that the RAM
> be kept powered. If you lose the power, your suspend image is lost,
> but resuming from suspend is much faster than resuming from
> hibernation.

Then you have funny things, like:  A laptop that will suspend and wake
up, but goes permanently into a coma if you try to hibernate then wake
up.  The converse would seem a more likely scenario, but not with my
laptop.

A few times I've managed to get it to un-hibernate, but that took almost
as long as a cold boot, only having the advantage of being able to
resume things I'd been doing, previously.

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Re: Thanks to Fedora community; Installation & Disk Partitioning ISSUE

[Greg Woods]

On Sat, 2011-11-05 at 11:50 -0400, Linux Tyro wrote:

> 
> I really don't know what is hibernation and all that. Can you step by
> step let me know or point me to the link what is hibdernation for
> beginners?

Sorry, I just can't resist:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=linux%20hibernation

Essentially, hibernation is a method of writing the contents of RAM and
the CPU registers to the swap space, then powering down the computer.
When the computer comes back on, it reloads the RAM and the CPU
registers from the hard drive, and you can carry on from where you left
off. This is oversimplified of course, but it isn't necessary to
understand the details of how hibernation works in order to use it.
Modern distros, including Fedora, will provide hibernation as an option
at shutdown time. (I am deliberately avoiding the Gnome 3 flame wars
here).

This is as opposed to suspend, which preserves the contents of RAM and
only writes a little bit of additional information to RAM required to
preserve the system state, then shuts down everything except the RAM.
This is much faster than hibernation, but it does require that the RAM
be kept powered. If you lose the power, your suspend image is lost, but
resuming from suspend is much faster than resuming from hibernation.
Suspend is very useful on laptops.

And both of these as opposed to shutdown, where the contents of RAM are
not preserved, and the computer boots again from scratch.

--Greg




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Re: Thanks to Fedora community; Installation & Disk Partitioning ISSUE

[Greg Woods]

On Sun, 2011-11-06 at 21:51 +1030, Tim wrote:

> 
> As you say, you only need to chainload through an extra location to be
> able to get around the "computer always resumes without giving me a
> choice" problem.  You could chainload to home, or to any other
> partition.  Using home would seem an odd choice.

I originally did this on a system that only had /, /home, swap, and
Windows as partitions, so /home was the only choice. Most distros now
will set up a separate /boot partition by default, and I typically add a
separate /var partition too.

All this was just an answer to the question "why would anybody ever want
to boot from /home". I don't claim this is the optimal setup.

--Greg



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Re: Thanks to Fedora community; Installation & Disk Partitioning ISSUE

[Greg Woods]

On Sat, 2011-11-05 at 08:55 -0700, Joe Zeff wrote:
> On 11/05/2011 08:42 AM, Greg Woods wrote:
>  The master boot block contains pointers to the /home boot
> > configuration that has nothing in it but chainloaders. Then grub inside
> > Fedora is installed only on the Fedora root partition
> 
> Wouldn't it make a lot more sense to put this on a /boot partition where 
> it belongs?

The /boot partition is where Fedora boots from. It contains a
grub/grub.conf file for booting various Fedora kernels. I need some
other partition to use for the main boot loader.

There are certainly other ways of organizing the system to do the same
kind of chainloader thing. I don't claim my way is the absolute best,
but it works for me. 

--Greg



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Re: Thanks to Fedora community; Installation & Disk Partitioning ISSUE

[Tim]

On Sat, 2011-11-05 at 09:42 -0600, Greg Woods wrote:
> I have a system with Windows dual boot, and I want to be able to
> hibernate Linux, boot into Windows, and then resume Linux from
> hibernation. With recent versions of Fedora, this is not possible from
> the standard grub configuration, because hibernating does something to
> the master boot loader block that causes it to boot immediately into
> the same Linux kernel that was hibernated, rather than presenting the
> usual boot menu. I do not have the option of booting Windows instead.
> This is done to prevent someone from accidentally booting the wrong
> kernel, thus clobbering their hibernation info. That is rather like
> shutting down the computer by pulling the plug out of the wall, which
> can obviously have bad consequences. 
>  
> Unfortunately, this safeguard does get in the way of my desire to
> hibernate Linux and boot into Windows. So I get around this by booting
> from /home. The master boot block contains pointers to the /home boot
> configuration that has nothing in it but chainloaders. Then grub
> inside Fedora is installed only on the Fedora root partition. This
> only requires that the contents of /boot/grub be copied
> to /home/boot/grub,  /home/boot/grub/grub.conf be edited
> appropriately, and that grub be installed on the master boot sector
> with root pointed at the /home partition.

As you say, you only need to chainload through an extra location to be
able to get around the "computer always resumes without giving me a
choice" problem.  You could chainload to home, or to any other
partition.  Using home would seem an odd choice.

Personally, I'd be inclined to keep *a* /boot partition as my first
loader, and have it just the basic choose what to boot, and it would
chainload whatever else you wanted (as you're doing).  And that second
chainload would be the roots for you other OSs, rather than home
userspace.  And, in the case of Linux, I'd be tempted to have a boot
*directory* for that Linux's root, rather than use the first boot
partition for it, or rather than having multiple boot partitions.
Certainly, if you were doing multiple boots (i.e. more than one Windows
and one Linux).

Though, I've done the multiple boot partitions approach when I've had
multiple drives in a system.  One drive per OS, all the normal
partitions for that OS on that drive.  The only exception being a
separate boot on the first drive to begin all the chainloading.



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Re: Thanks to Fedora community; Installation & Disk Partitioning ISSUE

[Joe Zeff]

On 11/05/2011 08:42 AM, Greg Woods wrote:
> Unfortunately, this safeguard does get in the way of my desire to
> hibernate Linux and boot into Windows. So I get around this by booting
> from /home. The master boot block contains pointers to the /home boot
> configuration that has nothing in it but chainloaders. Then grub inside
> Fedora is installed only on the Fedora root partition

Wouldn't it make a lot more sense to put this on a /boot partition where 
it belongs?
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Re: Thanks to Fedora community; Installation & Disk Partitioning ISSUE

[Linux Tyro]

On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 11:25 AM, Joe Zeff  wrote:

For a partition to be bootable, it has to have the appropriate files on
> it to boot your computer.  Can you give me one reason why you'd want to
> have those files in /home, even if it is on its own partition, as it is
> on my computers?
>

Not have but just asked for clarification.

On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 11:42 AM, Greg Woods  wrote:

Yes, I can. I have a system with Windows dual boot, and I want to be
> able to hibernate Linux, boot into Windows, and then resume Linux from
> hibernation. With recent versions of Fedora, this is not possible from
> the standard grub configuration, because hibernating does something to
> the master boot loader block that causes it to boot immediately into the
> same Linux kernel that was hibernated, rather than presenting the usual
> boot menu. I do not have the option of booting Windows instead. This is
> done to prevent someone from accidentally booting the wrong kernel, thus
> clobbering their hibernation info. That is rather like shutting down the
> computer by pulling the plug out of the wall, which can obviously have
> bad consequences.
>

I really don't know what is hibernation and all that. Can you step by step
let me know or point me to the link what is hibdernation for beginners?


> Unfortunately, this safeguard does get in the way of my desire to
> hibernate Linux and boot into Windows. So I get around this by booting
> from /home. The master boot block contains pointers to the /home boot
> configuration that has nothing in it but chainloaders. Then grub inside
> Fedora is installed only on the Fedora root partition. This only
> requires that the contents of /boot/grub be copied
> to /home/boot/grub,  /home/boot/grub/grub.conf be edited appropriately,
> and that grub be installed on the master boot sector with root pointed
> at the /home partition.
>
> Doing it this way, when I fire up the machine, I am given a choice of
> Fedora or Windows. If I select Windows, then Windows will boot and run
> normally. If I select Fedora, then the boot block from the Fedora
> partition is loaded, the hibernated kernel immediately boots, and all is
> as I want it to be. That can also work with multiple Linux systems
> booting, as long as they do not share any swap partitions.
>
> So this is at least one reason why someone might want to boot
> from /home. It does, of course, require that you be comfortable playing
> around with boot loaders, and be comfortable reinstalling the master
> boot block from a rescue CD or DVD (in case you screw up, which of
> course I have done and had to recover this way).
>

I guess this much advanced and I am not able to understand all this - a
typical thoery. If you can explain step by step, I can understand. THANX
but a bit of it was understood by me.

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Re: Thanks to Fedora community; Installation & Disk Partitioning ISSUE

[Greg Woods]

On Sat, 2011-11-05 at 08:25 -0700, Joe Zeff wrote:

> For a partition to be bootable, it has to have the appropriate files on 
> it to boot your computer.  Can you give me one reason why you'd want to 
> have those files in /home, even if it is on its own partition, as it is 
> on my computers?

Yes, I can. I have a system with Windows dual boot, and I want to be
able to hibernate Linux, boot into Windows, and then resume Linux from
hibernation. With recent versions of Fedora, this is not possible from
the standard grub configuration, because hibernating does something to
the master boot loader block that causes it to boot immediately into the
same Linux kernel that was hibernated, rather than presenting the usual
boot menu. I do not have the option of booting Windows instead. This is
done to prevent someone from accidentally booting the wrong kernel, thus
clobbering their hibernation info. That is rather like shutting down the
computer by pulling the plug out of the wall, which can obviously have
bad consequences. 

Unfortunately, this safeguard does get in the way of my desire to
hibernate Linux and boot into Windows. So I get around this by booting
from /home. The master boot block contains pointers to the /home boot
configuration that has nothing in it but chainloaders. Then grub inside
Fedora is installed only on the Fedora root partition. This only
requires that the contents of /boot/grub be copied
to /home/boot/grub,  /home/boot/grub/grub.conf be edited appropriately,
and that grub be installed on the master boot sector with root pointed
at the /home partition.

Doing it this way, when I fire up the machine, I am given a choice of
Fedora or Windows. If I select Windows, then Windows will boot and run
normally. If I select Fedora, then the boot block from the Fedora
partition is loaded, the hibernated kernel immediately boots, and all is
as I want it to be. That can also work with multiple Linux systems
booting, as long as they do not share any swap partitions.

So this is at least one reason why someone might want to boot
from /home. It does, of course, require that you be comfortable playing
around with boot loaders, and be comfortable reinstalling the master
boot block from a rescue CD or DVD (in case you screw up, which of
course I have done and had to recover this way).

--Greg



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Re: Thanks to Fedora community; Installation & Disk Partitioning ISSUE

[Joe Zeff]

On 11/05/2011 07:01 AM, Linux Tyro wrote:
> I was confused since I thought earlier that partitions are always
> bootable, but we can have /home as partition which is still not booted
> (for clarification).

For a partition to be bootable, it has to have the appropriate files on 
it to boot your computer.  Can you give me one reason why you'd want to 
have those files in /home, even if it is on its own partition, as it is 
on my computers?
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Re: Thanks to Fedora community; Installation & Disk Partitioning ISSUE

[Linux Tyro]

On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 9:33 AM, Marko Vojinovic  wrote:


> In principle one probably could tweak a system into booting from the /home
> partition, but I see no reason to ever want such a configuration.


> You want to think of the /home partition as your working area --- it is
> used
> for storing useful personal data, custom configurations of your favorite
> apps,
> local e-mail folders, etc. Something like the "Documents and settings"
> folder
> in Windows, only much more useful.
>

Ah well, asked just for information, not going to do that, really there is
not reason to do that. But why I asked because everytime we do partition on
the hard disk when we can boot from each partition so just thought in that
way that /home is a partition but still it is there to have data only...

I was confused since I thought earlier that partitions are always bootable,
but we can have /home as partition which is still not booted (for
clarification).


> Some people also separate other parts of the filesystem into separate
> partitions, like /boot, /etc, /var, /tmp. /srv, and so on, depending on the
> planned purpose of the system, and their personal preferences for how to
> use
> it.


Well, I could have all the separate partitions like you say, but as you
said to have only the separate partitions of '/' and 'home', so now I have
only Three partitions:-

linuxworld@linux-g34l:~> sudo /sbin/fdisk -l


Disk /dev/sda: 250.1 GB, 250059350016 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 30401 cylinders, total 488397168 sectors
Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes

Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disk identifier: 0xfedcfedc

   Device Boot  Start End  Blocks   Id  System
/dev/sda1  63   245106699   122553318+   7  HPFS/NTFS/exFAT
/dev/sda2   *   245108734   488396799   1216440335  Extended
/dev/sda5   478427136   488396799 4984832   82  Linux swap / Solaris
/dev/sda6   245108736   28704972720970496   83  Linux
/dev/sda7   287051776   47841484795681536   83  Linux

Partition table entries are not in disk order

But I don't know having separate all the partitions would server a good
purpose for initial tasks...? Perhaps they (people) might be using it  for
their personal reasons... (whatever those reasons are...).

One more thing amazing me is that, (however it could be a silly doubt, I
don't know...) when I typed in Ubuntu:

sudo fdisk -l

it worked. But here when I type the above command it doesn't work, but
rather what I need to type here is as follows:

sudo /sbin/fdisk -l

Now, why that /sbin/ is coming, is it a bug (please don't laugh if it is
not...).

Thanks man.

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Re: Thanks to Fedora community; Installation & Disk Partitioning ISSUE

[Linux Tyro]

On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 9:33 AM, Marko Vojinovic  wrote:


> In principle one probably could tweak a system into booting from the /home
> partition, but I see no reason to ever want such a configuration.


> You want to think of the /home partition as your working area --- it is
> used
> for storing useful personal data, custom configurations of your favorite
> apps,
> local e-mail folders, etc. Something like the "Documents and settings"
> folder
> in Windows, only much more useful.
>

Ah well, asked just for information, not going to do that, really there is
not reason to do that. But why I asked because everytime we do partition on
the hard disk when we can boot from each partition so just thought in that
way that /home is a partition but still it is there to have data only...

I was confused since I thought earlier that partitions are always bootable,
but we can have /home as partition which is still not booted (for
clarification).


> Some people also separate other parts of the filesystem into separate
> partitions, like /boot, /etc, /var, /tmp. /srv, and so on, depending on the
> planned purpose of the system, and their personal preferences for how to
> use
> it.


Well, I could have all the separate partitions like you say, but as you
said to have only the separate partitions of '/' and 'home', so now I have
only Three partitions:-

linuxworld@linux-g34l:~> sudo /sbin/fdisk -l

Disk /dev/sda: 250.1 GB, 250059350016 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 30401 cylinders, total 488397168 sectors
Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disk identifier: 0xfedcfedc

   Device Boot  Start End  Blocks   Id  System
/dev/sda1  63   245106699   122553318+   7  HPFS/NTFS/exFAT
/dev/sda2   *   245108734   488396799   1216440335  Extended
/dev/sda5   478427136   488396799 4984832   82  Linux swap / Solaris
/dev/sda6   245108736   28704972720970496   83  Linux
/dev/sda7   287051776   47841484795681536   83  Linux

Partition table entries are not in disk order

But I don't know having separate all the partitions would server a good
purpose for initial tasks...? Perhaps they (people) might be using it  for
their personal reasons... (whatever those reasons are...).

One more thing amazing me is that, (however it could be a silly doubt, I
don't know...) when I typed in Ubuntu:

sudo fdisk -l

it worked. But here when I type the above command it doesn't work, but
rather what I need to type here is as follows:

sudo /sbin/fdisk -l

Now, why that /sbin/ is coming, is it a bug (please don't laugh if it is
not...).

Thanks man.

-- 
THX
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Re: Thanks to Fedora community; Installation & Disk Partitioning ISSUE

[Marko Vojinovic]

On Friday 04 November 2011 11:11:56 Linux Tyro wrote:
> Well, since (now) /home is a separate partition, but we cannot boot from
> /home only because it is not containing the required file to get booted and
> it is only for storing the data.?

In principle one probably could tweak a system into booting from the /home 
partition, but I see no reason to ever want such a configuration.

You want to think of the /home partition as your working area --- it is used 
for storing useful personal data, custom configurations of your favorite apps, 
local e-mail folders, etc. Something like the "Documents and settings" folder 
in Windows, only much more useful.

In Windows people do not have a developed culture of storing their personal 
files in their personal folder, while keeping the system files in system 
folders. One typically logs in with administrator privileges, and puts files 
whereever one sees fit at the moment.

In Linux the culture of separating personal from system is much more 
developed. First, Linux inherited the Unix tradition of multi-user systems, 
that didn't exist in Windows until recently. The filesystem is organized so 
that every usesr's privacy is respected. Second, this is good security-wise 
--- an ordinary user is not allowed to put files in system folders or in home 
folders of other users, since that could compromise the system security. 
Finally, a typical user on a multi-user system does *not* have a root 
password, so the *only* part of the disk he can actually access is his piece 
of /home. Those users who *do* have the root password know that they should 
use it *only* for system administration, ie. when there is no other choice.

Think of the /home as your back-yard space where you can do whatever you want. 
The rest of the filesystem is locked-out exclusively for root access (with a 
few exceptions). Therefore, it makes sense to physically separate /home from 
/. In addition, you can save your personal stuff across system reinstallations, 
have it on removable media (such as an usb flash memory stick), etc.

Some people also separate other parts of the filesystem into separate 
partitions, like /boot, /etc, /var, /tmp. /srv, and so on, depending on the 
planned purpose of the system, and their personal preferences for how to use 
it.

You can read more about all this on

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filesystem_Hierarchy_Standard

Best, :-)
Marko



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Re: Thanks to Fedora community; Installation & Disk Partitioning ISSUE

[Linux Tyro]

On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 11:55 AM, Marko Vojinovic  wrote:

This is how bootloading works...
>

Well, since (now) /home is a separate partition, but we cannot boot from
/home only because it is not containing the required file to get booted and
it is only for storing the data.?

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Re: Thanks to Fedora community; Installation & Disk Partitioning ISSUE

[Linux Tyro]

On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 11:55 AM, Marko Vojinovic  wrote:


> Nothing is permanent, of course, it would just be a hassle to fix. Neither
> Windows nor Linux would boot, and you would need to boot from the
> installation
> DVD or something called the "Rescue CD", and use the rescue environment to
> reinstall both stages of the Linux bootloader (or reinstall Linux
> completely).
> You would need to know how to use the rescue environment and how to
> reconfigure
> the GRUB (the Linux bootloader) so that it loads everything correctly. This
> requires reading the documentation, which is on the Internet and you can
> have
> a hard time accessing it, since your computer doesn't boot...


And without rescue CD (in this case of non-boot-ability), there is no other
option like booting from the installation CD (allocating the whole space to
one distro, like Fedora/SUSE)

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Re: Thanks to Fedora community; Installation & Disk Partitioning ISSUE

[Linux Tyro]

 permanent, of course, it would just be a hassle to fix. Neither
> Windows nor Linux would boot, and you would need to boot from the
> installation
> DVD or something called the "Rescue CD", and use the rescue environment to
> reinstall both stages of the Linux bootloader (or reinstall Linux
> completely).
> You would need to know how to use the rescue environment and how to
> reconfigure
> the GRUB (the Linux bootloader) so that it loads everything correctly. This
> requires reading the documentation, which is on the Internet and you can
> have
> a hard time accessing it, since your computer doesn't boot...
>
> It happened to me once, back in the day --- I had to go to a nearby
> Internet
> caffe to read the docs, pay them to print me the details, go back home
> only to
> find out that I was reading the docs for the wrong version of the
> software, so
> I had to visit the Internet caffe once more, pay again for the printing of
> new
> docs, and then go home and fix it. I wasted a whole afternoon, realizing
> in the
> end that it is a Good Idea to learn about these things *before* I make a
> mess... ;-)
>

Ah, thanks, it is pretty nice explanation and I would definitely read the
docs - not only for rescue but also other details you pointed, the matter
is only of time... I would do that.

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Re: Thanks to Fedora community; Installation & Disk Partitioning ISSUE

[Marko Vojinovic]

On Thursday 03 November 2011 14:14:46 Linux Tyro wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 7:44 AM, Marko Vojinovic  wrote:
> What earlier I used to think is that, "BIOS only send the instructions to
> the boot-loader (probably or whatever it sends the signal to) to just boot,
> BIOS has not such a bigger memory to have the hard-disk, so hard-disk is
> always beyond the hands of BIOS, but rather BIOS just sends the signal that
> ***IT*** should be booted and ***THAT*** gets booted.

This is how bootloading works... First, there is bios, which is programmed to 
look for and execute the boot code in the MBR, and it does so at some point. 
The "look for and execute" means that bios needs to access the MBR of the 
disk, read it into RAM memory, analyze whether the data contained there is 
executable, and if it is to point the processor to execute it.

The "program" that gets executed like that is called the stage 1 bootloader, 
and it is very very small (like 512 bytes or so), since the MBR doesn't have 
more space available. What this program does is to tell the bios to access 
some physical part of the hard disk, load it into memory and execute it. The 
bios knows nothing about partitions and filesystems, so it cannot be just 
pointed to "beginning of the partition /dev/sda6", but rather it must be given 
"physical" address of the place where it should look for data. This is 
explained in more detail in

   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_block_addressing

The stage 1 bootloader has the LBA address of the beginning of the /dev/sda6 
partition, the LBA address of the end of the data to be read in, and the code 
to instruct the bios to go there, read that much data into memory, and execute 
it. If the bios is not designed to access the LBA address that far on the 
disk, it will fail and the machine won't boot. If it can, it goes there, reads 
the data into memory, and executes it.

This data is called the stage 2 bootloader. It is a larger and more 
complicated program. It understands filesystems, it has a configuration file 
(in 
Fedora it is the /boot/grub/grub.conf file, feel free to take a look), it can 
interact with a user and offer various choices for the OS to boot. Once the 
bios loads it into memory and executes it, the stage 2 bootloader reads up its 
configuration file, on the /dev/sda6 partition. If the file isn't there, the 
boot 
fails (so the Ubuntu bootloader won't work if you deleted the Ubuntu system 
partition). Once the configuration is processed, the user is presented with 
options to load various OS's. Once the user makes a choice, the bootloader 
will do whatever is specified for that OS in the config file. Typically, it 
will 
load the kernel file (/boot/vmlinuz-something) into memory, and execute it. It 
doesn't need the bios for this anymore, since it knows how to access the disk 
itself.

Another typical situation is to not load a kernel, but instead read some other 
stage 2 bootloader that resides on, say, /dev/sda1, and let that take over and 
repeat the whole thing for another OS. This is called chainloading, and that 
is how Windows gets booted from the Linux bootloader.

At any rate, eventually some kernel gets loaded into memory, and the 
bootloader instructs the processor to execute that. And that's where the 
*real* fun begins... ;-) But that's another story,,, :-)
 
> > Of course, once the OS gets booted,
> 
> from which location?

In Linux, the kernel is typically a file called vmlinuz-, and it 
resides in the /boot directory of the filesystem tree. This directory can be 
basically anywhere --- on its own partition, on the / partition, on some other 
disk, etc...  The stage 2 bootloader just needs to know where to look for it.

In Windows, the kernel is (IIRC) the file C:\Windows\ntoskrnl.exe, or something 
like that. The stage 2 bootloader of Windows knows where and how to find it. 
The Windows' stage 2 bootloader gets loaded into memory and gets executed by 
the Linux stage 2 bootloader, if you choose to boot Windows when asked (the 
chainloading process).

In other OS's the kernel file may be called whatever and be situated whereever, 
depending on the OS. ;-)

> SUSE would automatically delete the MBR (which right now points to Ubuntu)
> and would set the other defaults.in it?

Yes, SuSE would wipe and rework the MBR so that it contains the stage 1 
bootloader that points to SuSE's new stage 2 bootloader, instead of the old 
Ubuntu's stage 2 bootloader (which was deleted during SuSE installation). 
Otherwise the transition from stage 1 to stage 2 in the boot sequence above 
would be broken.

> > Since you are going to delete Ubuntu, its bootloader in MBR will fail to
> > work.
> > You want to let SuSE set up the MBR, and leave the / partition alone.
> > SuSE will take care of itself, and it will take care of Windows via
> > chainloading its bootloader on /dev/sda1. You *don't* want to leave
> > Ubuntu's bootloader in
> > the MBR.
> 
> This is a small typical, what I got

Re: Thanks to Fedora community; Installation & Disk Partitioning ISSUE

[Linux Tyro]

On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 7:44 AM, Marko Vojinovic  wrote:

 > "The boot loader is installed on a partition that doesn't lie entirely
> > below 128 GB. The system might not boot is BIOS support only lba24
> (result
> > is error 18 during install grub MBR)."
> >  __
> >
> > What does it ('the installation process') want to say?
>
> Ok, you need to learn a bit or two about booting a PC. Dual-booting is a
> nontrivial thing to setup, so you need to be aware of what is actually
> going
> on inside.
>
> You want to read about that on
>
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Booting#Boot_sequence_on_standard_PC_.28IBM-
> PC_compatible.29
>

I am going to read this all as soon as I get the time.


> When you turn on a computer, the very first thing that happens is that the
> motherboard oscillator clock stats ticking. This invokes a piece of
> hardware
> that sends a reset signal to the processor. The processor than resets
> itself
> and starts executing commands from a fixed predetermined position in
> memory.
> This is where the bios resides.
>
> The bios gets loaded, does a bunch of initialization and self-testing
> stuff,
> and eventually looks up the MBR (master boot record) of your hard disk, to
> load an operating system.
>
> The MBR is located at the very beginning of the hard drive, and is 512
> bytes
> long. It contains the partition table of the disk, and a "stage 1"
> bootloader
> --- a small piece of code which knows "where to look" for an operating
> system
> to load. Now comes the catch --- this piece of code is very
> size-constrained,
> so it relies on bios routines to access the remainder of the hard disk. The
> bios, however, may be old, and not have built-in support to access the
> whole
> space of the 250 GB hard drive. Or maybe it can. It depends on your
> particular
> bios, and the SuSE installation cannot check whether bios is capable of
> this
> or not.
>

Oh I see.


> In the end, you get the warning that the "stage 2" bootloader, which is to
> be
> positioned at the beginning of the /dev/sda6 partition, might be out of
> reach
> of bios. If it is, your system would fail to boot the SuSE installation.
> Windows would be bootable no problem, because its "stage2" bootloader is at
> the beginning of the /dev/sda1, which is on the "near end" of the hard
> drive,
> and thus certainly within the reach of bios.
>

What earlier I used to think is that, "BIOS only send the instructions to
the boot-loader (probably or whatever it sends the signal to) to just boot,
BIOS has not such a bigger memory to have the hard-disk, so hard-disk is
always beyond the hands of BIOS, but rather BIOS just sends the signal that
***IT*** should be booted and ***THAT*** gets booted.

Of course, once the OS gets booted,


from which location?


> it can see the whole disk with no
> problems, because the OS kernel (both the Windows and Linux one) is much
> more
> powerful than the bios, and does not rely on the bios to access the disk.
>

Okay.

You have two options:
>
> (1) To look up the docs/specifications of your bios version on the
> Internet,
> and read wheter or not it supports large hard drives (and how large).
>
(2) To experiment --- proceed with the installation of SuSE and hope that
> bios
> can access the disk that far. My bet is that it can, since Ubuntu had no
> problems booting from the same place on the disk. ;-)
>

You are absolutely correct and I got booted with SUSE, installed it with
all that default options and it got booted!


>  > Now the partition table (which came BY DEFAULT, at the step at which the
> > above error (in red) came) was as follows:
> >  __
> >
> > /dev/sda 232.89 GB
> > /dev/sda1   116.88 GB   HPFS/NTFSNTFS  /windows/c
> > /dev/sda1   116.01 GB   Extended
> > /dev/sad5   4.75 GB   Linux swapSwap Swap
> > /dev/sda6   20.00   GBF Linux native  Ext4   /
> > /dev/sda7   91.25   GBF Linux native  Ext4   /home
> >  __
> >
> > First line: Well, /dev/sda is the whole of hard disk and its capacity is
> > 232.89 GB. Its well understood. But when I bought, the vendor told me the
> > capacity of 250 GB, so remaining (250-232.89) GB=17.11 GB are where, I
> > don't know.
>
> Q: How many meters are there in a kilometer?
> A: 1024 --- ask any programmer! :-)
>
> You want to read about that on
>
>   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byte#Unit_multiples
>
> When a disk manufacturer says 1GB, they typically mean 1 000 000 000 bytes,
> which is 1000^3. When an OS says 1 GB (or more precisely 1GiB), it means
> 1 073 741 824 bytes, which is 1024^3. Hence the difference.
>
> Also, some of the space on the disk is used up for filesystem data (and its
> backups), some of it may be reserved for root (for administration
> purposes),
> etc.
>

Ah well.


>  > Second line: /dev/sda1 is the Windows partition, and I guess it is
> taking
> > nu

Re: Thanks to Fedora community; Installation & Disk Partitioning ISSUE

[Marko Vojinovic]

On Thursday 03 November 2011 07:33:33 Linux Tyro wrote:
> Inserted the CD in the CD-ROM (yes it was the first boot option).
> Everything was going on smooth but after some time I came to the windows
> where I have to do something regarding 'partitioning'. The CD, by default
> showed with the following output. It said me as followed:
>  __
> 
> -Delete partition /dev/sda5 (111.25 GB)
> -Create root volume /dev/sda6 (20.00 GB) with ext4
> -Create volume /dev/sda6 (91.25 GB) for /home with ext4
> -Use /dev/sda5 as swap
>  -Set mount point of /dev/sda1 to /widows/c
>  __

SuSE is telling you here what it is about to do. It wants to delete the big 
Ubutu partition (/dev/sda5), and replace it with two partitions, one 
(/dev/sda6) for / and the other (/dev/sda7, I believe you mistyped the "6" 
above) for /home, all for SuSE (deleting Ubutnu in the process). In addition, 
it intends to recreate /dev/sda5 to use it as the swap partition, and to 
create a mount point for the Windows partition (/dev/sda1), so that you can 
access your Windows files in the directory /windows/c from within SuSE.

I am not sure whether you retyped the /dev/sdaX numbers correctly, the /home 
entry is probably /dev/sda7.

There is nothing wrong with this setup, and IMHO having separate / and /home 
is better than what Ubuntu installed (just a single big / and no separate 
/home). I recommend that you accept this setup.

> I continued with this (the above) default scheme which it took and didn't
> click to 'edit the partition'. Finally arrived at the page where the
> summary of what the distro is going to do in finally (for installation). At
> this page/step was written in red, the following message:
>  __
> 
> "The boot loader is installed on a partition that doesn't lie entirely
> below 128 GB. The system might not boot is BIOS support only lba24 (result
> is error 18 during install grub MBR)."
>  __
> 
> What does it ('the installation process') want to say?

Ok, you need to learn a bit or two about booting a PC. Dual-booting is a 
nontrivial thing to setup, so you need to be aware of what is actually going 
on inside.

You want to read about that on

   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Booting#Boot_sequence_on_standard_PC_.28IBM-
PC_compatible.29

When you turn on a computer, the very first thing that happens is that the 
motherboard oscillator clock stats ticking. This invokes a piece of hardware 
that sends a reset signal to the processor. The processor than resets itself 
and starts executing commands from a fixed predetermined position in memory. 
This is where the bios resides.

The bios gets loaded, does a bunch of initialization and self-testing stuff, 
and eventually looks up the MBR (master boot record) of your hard disk, to 
load an operating system.

The MBR is located at the very beginning of the hard drive, and is 512 bytes 
long. It contains the partition table of the disk, and a "stage 1" bootloader 
--- a small piece of code which knows "where to look" for an operating system 
to load. Now comes the catch --- this piece of code is very size-constrained, 
so it relies on bios routines to access the remainder of the hard disk. The 
bios, however, may be old, and not have built-in support to access the whole 
space of the 250 GB hard drive. Or maybe it can. It depends on your particular 
bios, and the SuSE installation cannot check whether bios is capable of this 
or not.

In the end, you get the warning that the "stage 2" bootloader, which is to be 
positioned at the beginning of the /dev/sda6 partition, might be out of reach 
of bios. If it is, your system would fail to boot the SuSE installation. 
Windows would be bootable no problem, because its "stage2" bootloader is at 
the beginning of the /dev/sda1, which is on the "near end" of the hard drive, 
and thus certainly within the reach of bios.

Of course, once the OS gets booted, it can see the whole disk with no 
problems, because the OS kernel (both the Windows and Linux one) is much more 
powerful than the bios, and does not rely on the bios to access the disk.

You have two options:

(1) To look up the docs/specifications of your bios version on the Internet, 
and read wheter or not it supports large hard drives (and how large).
(2) To experiment --- proceed with the installation of SuSE and hope that bios 
can access the disk that far. My bet is that it can, since Ubuntu had no 
problems booting from the same place on the disk. ;-)

> Now the partition table (which came BY DEFAULT, at the step at which the
> above error (in red) came) was as follows:
>  __
> 
> /dev/sda 232.89 GB
> /dev/sda1   116.88 GB   HPFS/NTFSNTFS  /windows/c
> /dev/sda1   116.01 GB   Extended
> /dev/sad5   4.75 GB   Linux swapSwap Swap
> /dev/sda6   20.00   GBF Linux native  

Thanks to Fedora community; Installation & Disk Partitioning ISSUE

[Linux Tyro]

On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 11:45 AM, T.C. Hollingsworth <
tchollingswo...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

I am really thankful to all of you, Marko Vojinovic, Tim and all the
members for such great suggestions.

However, it was a coincidence that I have some Ubuntu LTS CD and just
installed it. Everything was okay and I have only some small issues. Well I
aslo had an CD of openSUSE 11.4, which I was installing (trying to). I had
some issues in it. I am writing these issues here, please elucidate it.

[FEDORA CORE IS GETTING DOWNLOADING as you suggested, I am going to give
live CDs a chance] But before I could successfully Install Fedora (after
downloading), I just clear my some doubts I had with the installation of
openSUSE which are as follows:

Thanks and Regards.

_


I installed Unbuntu LTS (had its CD). But I have planned to go with .rpm
side (whatever be the reasons, Fedora is under downloading process). Well,
right now I am having one CD of openSUSE 11.4 too. I just want to see how
openSUSE looks, before again installing Fedora. A couple of things,
confusing me a lot here are as follows. I am going step by step what I did
and what exactly I found in this operation of installing openSUSE 11.4.

Inserted the CD in the CD-ROM (yes it was the first boot option).
Everything was going on smooth but after some time I came to the windows
where I have to do something regarding 'partitioning'. The CD, by default
showed with the following output. It said me as followed:
 __

-Delete partition /dev/sda5 (111.25 GB)
-Create root volume /dev/sda6 (20.00 GB) with ext4
-Create volume /dev/sda6 (91.25 GB) for /home with ext4
-Use /dev/sda5 as swap
 -Set mount point of /dev/sda1 to /widows/c
 __

I continued with this (the above) default scheme which it took and didn't
click to 'edit the partition'. Finally arrived at the page where the
summary of what the distro is going to do in finally (for installation). At
this page/step was written in red, the following message:
 __

"The boot loader is installed on a partition that doesn't lie entirely
below 128 GB. The system might not boot is BIOS support only lba24 (result
is error 18 during install grub MBR)."
 __

What does it ('the installation process') want to say?

Further, I was confused with what partitions to delete with. So I am giving
here that table also (which came at the same step on which above error
came). But before I give, I just want to tell that my requirement was to
install openSUSE only in the space in which current Ubuntu is residing and
making Windows XP remain intact (only my sis uses it).

Now the partition table (which came BY DEFAULT, at the step at which the
above error (in red) came) was as follows:
 __

/dev/sda 232.89 GB

/dev/sda1   116.88 GB   HPFS/NTFSNTFS  /windows/c

/dev/sda1   116.01 GB   Extended

/dev/sad5   4.75 GB   Linux swapSwap Swap

/dev/sda6   20.00   GBF Linux native  Ext4   /

/dev/sda7   91.25   GBF Linux native  Ext4   /home
 __

In this partition table,

First line: Well, /dev/sda is the whole of hard disk and its capacity is
232.89 GB. Its well understood. But when I bought, the vendor told me the
capacity of 250 GB, so remaining (250-232.89) GB=17.11 GB are where, I
don't know.

Second line: /dev/sda1 is the Windows partition, and I guess it is taking
number '1' since it is the default boot option...? It has been formated by
NTFS file system as shown clearly.

Third line: /dev/sda1 extended? Is it windows only? If yes, why its size is
116.01 GB? and not 116.88 GB (which is in the line just above it). What
does it mean?

Fourth line: /dev/sda5 Okay Linux swap, understood and it is separate
partition. I don't know where /dev/sda2, /dev/sda3, /dev/sda4 have gone??
>From '1' it has jumped to -->> '5'...!

Fifth line: /dev/sda6 is the root, since at the last symbol '/' is coming
and again its a separate partition. But why it is calling Linux native? And
why there is coming a 'F' written just after 20.00 GB, what is it
representing?

Sixth line: /dev/sda7 ok its /home (written at the last), but it is also
'Linux native' and again that 'F'.

On the same stage (on which the partition table and the error in red was
being displayed), I had one more thing interesting, it is as follows. It
was under the heading 'Change Location':-
 __

-Boot from MBR is disabled (enable)
-Boot from "/" partition is disabled (enable)
 __

I don&#

Thanks for responding

[Aaron Konstam]

Thanks to those who of you who spent the time to straighten me out on my
confusions about Gnome3.
For example , I now know how to use more than 2 workspaces.
-- 
===
"Atomic batteries to power, turbines to speed." -- Robin, The Boy Wonder
===
Aaron Konstam telephone: (210) 656-0355 e-mail: akons...@sbcglobal.net

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Re: Fastest shutdown or what? thanks - that did the trick.

[Genes MailLists]

On 05/30/2011 01:51 PM, Joe Feely wrote:

> 
> I removed the 2 offending lines and, guess what, problem solved.
> 
> I'm not sure that you might think you solved this, but I am quite
> certain that I wouldn't have done what I did without your questions, so
> just to be clear you're to blame for solving this for me.
> 
> Thanks very much, now I can move on to break bigger and better things!!
> Joe
> 

  Ok glad things are ok for you now ..

  I accept some appropriate amount of blame too :-)
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Big thanks for Fedora-15

[Clemens Eisserer]

Hi,

Just wanted to say thanks for Fedora-15.

Using xfce and lxdm, my laptop boots from grub to desktop in 13-15s,
which is really impressive.

Thanks again, Clemens
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[OT] Can anyone send me a invitation of QUORA thanks

[cheng chen]

I am curious about the QUORA, but it need invitation to sign in. Can anyone
help? Thx.

-- 
Cheng(誠)

Fedora Project Contributor -- Ambassador
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Freakrobot
___

My Page: http://freakrobot.blogbus.com/
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Re: thanks fedora

[Mr. Teo En Ming (Zhang Enming) 张恩鸣 o f Singapore]

I am using my Fedora 11 x86_64 system as a HTPC (Home Theater PC). I can 
watch DVD Videos, playback video and audio files, surf the World Wide 
Web, access emails, run s...@home, watch Singapore's Mediacorp 
Television (TV) channels using MythTV and Hauppage WinTV-PVR USB2, 
record TV programs, connect a Firewire-based digital video camera to 
capture and render videos using the open source kdenlive non-linear 
video editor, chat on the Windows Live Messenger network and IRC, watch 
Youtube videos, burn data to DVD+R/DVD-R/DVD-RW/DVD+RAM/CD-R/CD-RW using 
k3b, play Windows-based PC games with Wine and Steam, experiment with 
VGA passthrough using the open source Xen virtualization, scan documents 
with my USB scanner, run Linux, UNIX and Windows virtual machines using 
Xen, Oracle VM VirtualBox, and VMware Player/Workstation (Evaluation 
expired), perform word processing tasks with Sun/Oracle OpenOffice, read 
PDF documents, and much more...

Linux has come a long way.

-- 
Yours sincerely,

Mr. Teo En Ming (Zhang Enming) 张恩鸣 Dip(Mechatronics) BEng(Hons)(Mechanical 
Engineering)
Citizenship: Singapore Citizen/Singaporean
Alma Maters:
[1] Singapore Polytechnic (Graduated 1998)
[2] National University of Singapore (Graduated 2006)
Facebook account: Teo En Ming (Zhang Enming)
Facebook link: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=10750083982
Facebook photos: 
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=10750083982#!/profile.php?id=10750083982&v=photos
Facebook videos: 
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=10750083982&v=app_2392950137
Mobile Phone (Starhub pre-paid): +65-8369-2618
Windows Live Messenger: teoenming-at-hotmail.com
Location: Bedok Reservoir Road, Singapore
ZIP: 470103
My Open Letter (Plea for Medical Help/Assistance) to World Leaders (Updated 28 
August 2010):-
http://lists.mcs.anl.gov/pipermail/mpich-discuss/2010-August/007811.html
http://mythtv.org/pipermail/mythtv-users/2010-August/295952.html
http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-user/msg_f6a341d9623fda17880159b137c07335.xml
Photo of Mr. Teo En Ming (Zhang Enming) 张恩鸣 of Singapore: 
http://i53.tinypic.com/207tamp.jpg


On 09/20/2010 02:44 AM, zico banerjee wrote:
> guys i installed the vlc music player in my fedora13. and now while
> hearing to it i cant belive in my ears that i am listening music in a
> linux operating system. even i cant belive it just an week ago. but
> after using fedora13 i can do it...its too goodand user
> friendly too..
> so i just want  to thank u guys for helping me whenevr i got stuck and
> fedora team for giving us such a powerfull but user friendly operating
> system.
>


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thanks fedora

[zico banerjee]

guys i installed the vlc music player in my fedora13. and now while
hearing to it i cant belive in my ears that i am listening music in a
linux operating system. even i cant belive it just an week ago. but
after using fedora13 i can do it...its too goodand user
friendly too..
so i just want  to thank u guys for helping me whenevr i got stuck and
fedora team for giving us such a powerfull but user friendly operating
system.
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Re: vlc streaming tantalizingly close - thanks - that worked.

[Joe Feely]

Thanks Stefan - that worked - it was simple, even obvious - and I missed
it!! (well done me)


> From: stefan riemens  
> Have you opened your firewall? You can use the system-config-firewall
utility for that.
>
> Joe Feely :
>> > I suspect I'm missing something obvious / simple.
>> > Streaming with vlc (music mp3 files) with:-
>> > [...@f12onofficedt rips]$ vlc --sout udp://192.168.0.3:1234 *
>> >
>> > while on the other desktop the usb wireless stick flashes away seemingly
>> > happily.
>> > Run gui vlc - in open Network dialog box - enter Protocol UDP , Address
>> > 192.168.0.3 , and port 1234
>> > Hit play and not much. No error messages; no indications of activity in
>> > status boxes; no sound.
>> >
>> > I'm afraid I'm not smart enough to know if the "problem" is vlc or some
>> > other setting(s).
>> >
>> > BTW vlc works fine with local stuff and online radio.
>> >
>> > (I'm running F12 on streaming box and F11 on receiving box)
>> >
>> > Any ideas?






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Re: firefox rant, thanks for konqueror to the KDE devs.

[Antonio Olivares]

> > Do you package firefox?  if you do, I am sorry,
> but I still don't like the way it has been behaving.
> >   
> 
> Nope and while I understand you don't like Firefox, 
> kernel oopses are
> usually a kernel issue regardless of the program triggering
> it.   You
> should just file it against the Red Hat bugzilla, against
> the kernel.
> 
> Rahul
> 

Fair enough.
I sent it via abrt, but I don't know for sure where it went?  I used my 
Bugzilla account though.

Regards,

Antonio 


  
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Re: firefox rant, thanks for konqueror to the KDE devs.

[Rahul Sundaram]

On 04/11/2010 02:34 AM, Antonio Olivares wrote:
>
> Do you package firefox?  if you do, I am sorry, but I still don't like the 
> way it has been behaving.
>   

Nope and while I understand you don't like Firefox,  kernel oopses are
usually a kernel issue regardless of the program triggering it.   You
should just file it against the Red Hat bugzilla, against the kernel.

Rahul
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Re: firefox rant, thanks for konqueror to the KDE devs.

[Antonio Olivares]

--- On Sat, 4/10/10, Rahul Sundaram  wrote:

> From: Rahul Sundaram 
> Subject: Re: firefox rant, thanks for konqueror to the KDE devs.
> To: "Community support for Fedora users" 
> Cc: "Antonio Olivares" 
> Date: Saturday, April 10, 2010, 1:51 PM
> On 04/11/2010 02:13 AM, Antonio
> Olivares wrote:
> > Dear fellow Fedora users,
> >
> > \begin{rant}
> > I have tried to use firefox on/off for a while, and I
> know since it is opensource, Fedora will stick with it even
> though it has become a big and ugly resource taker :(.
> >
> > The other day I was giving it a chance and browsing
> the web happily, and then all of a sudden my machine died on
> me, I could not move the mouse, I could not CTRL+ALT+F2 to
> get a terminal(since CTRL+ALT+BACKSPACE was removed by
> Xorg(thanks guys))
> This functionality was disabled by default but never
> removed.  
> 
> > I submitted it and it says it went to the kernel and
> not to FIREFOX.  How sad it was a kernel oops and not a
> FIREFOX oops.  I beg to differ.  
> >   
> 
> What you have shown is quite clearly a kernel bug although
> Firefox might
> have triggered it.  It seems a misdirected rant to
> me.
> 
> Rahul
> 

Things were and have been working great, no crashes just the unharmful oops 
that I have shown SLEEPING BUG, but just when I tried to give firefox a chance 
this happens.  Firefox did trigger it, that is the problem, thus the rant.  I 
am sorry if you took it wrong

> It seems a misdirected rant to
> me.

Do you package firefox?  if you do, I am sorry, but I still don't like the way 
it has been behaving.  Sorry if you take it in a bad way.  I just vented my 
frustrations.  Guess I needed to have it out of my system.  I needed a breath 
of fresh air.  I am doing better now.  Thanks.

Regards,

Antonio  


  
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Re: firefox rant, thanks for konqueror to the KDE devs.

[Mail Lists]

On 04/10/2010 05:10 PM, Antonio Olivares wrote:

>> even though it has become a big and ugly resource taker :(.

  That is certainly true .. tho' not as bad as it once was.


 The other day I was giving it a chance and
>> browsing the web happily, and then all of a sudden my
>> machine died on me, I could not move the mouse, I could not
>

  Clerarly a kernel oops - even if triggered by ff.


>> I happen to think that Firefox does a lot of things for me
>> that 
>> Konqueror cannot handle. For example, Konqueror cannot
>> handle the many 
>


  These days, I have found that google-chrome is hands down the best
browser - its way faster and works with java[script].

  Good luck ...
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Re: firefox rant, thanks for konqueror to the KDE devs.

[Antonio Olivares]

--- On Sat, 4/10/10, Temlakos  wrote:

> From: Temlakos 
> Subject: Re: firefox rant, thanks for konqueror to the KDE devs.
> To: users@lists.fedoraproject.org
> Date: Saturday, April 10, 2010, 2:00 PM
> On 04/10/2010 04:51 PM, Rahul
> Sundaram wrote:
> > On 04/11/2010 02:13 AM, Antonio Olivares wrote:
> >
> >> Dear fellow Fedora users,
> >>
> >> \begin{rant}
> >> I have tried to use firefox on/off for a while,
> and I know since it is opensource, Fedora will stick with it
> even though it has become a big and ugly resource taker :(.
> >>
> >> The other day I was giving it a chance and
> browsing the web happily, and then all of a sudden my
> machine died on me, I could not move the mouse, I could not
> CTRL+ALT+F2 to get a terminal(since CTRL+ALT+BACKSPACE was
> removed by Xorg(thanks guys))
> >>  
> > This functionality was disabled by default but never
> removed.
> >
> >
> >> I submitted it and it says it went to the kernel
> and not to FIREFOX.  How sad it was a kernel oops and
> not a FIREFOX oops.  I beg to differ.
> >>
> >>  
> > What you have shown is quite clearly a kernel bug
> although Firefox might
> > have triggered it.  It seems a misdirected rant
> to me.
> >
> > Rahul
> >
> 
> The kernel has had this very odd bug since version
> 2.6.32.10, but once 
> even 2.6.32.9 did it--though it had not done this before I
> used 
> 2.6.32.10 for the first time. And it happened just a couple
> of hours or 
> so ago with 2.6.32.11. And it usually happens when I have
> Firefox 
> running, especially in the foreground, and move the cursor
> to the bottom 
> of the screen to reveal the panel, which I keep hidden.
> 
> But I have not been able to capture any debugging
> information.
> 
> I happen to think that Firefox does a lot of things for me
> that 
> Konqueror cannot handle. For example, Konqueror cannot
> handle the many 
> Java scripts that, say, Digg.com has. "Digging," even when
> I am logged 
> on, always seems to go nowhere in Konqueror.
> 
> Temlakos
> -- 

Bless you sir!  I am thankful that I am not the only one that this has happened 
to.  

It would be nice that konqueror become more feature rich to accomodate those 
Java scripts that you mention in Digg, but that has to come from upstream I 
believe(KDE.org itself) and in no way blame Fedora packagers for it, right?

Regards,

Antonio 


  
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Re: firefox rant, thanks for konqueror to the KDE devs.

[Temlakos]

On 04/10/2010 04:51 PM, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
> On 04/11/2010 02:13 AM, Antonio Olivares wrote:
>
>> Dear fellow Fedora users,
>>
>> \begin{rant}
>> I have tried to use firefox on/off for a while, and I know since it is 
>> opensource, Fedora will stick with it even though it has become a big and 
>> ugly resource taker :(.
>>
>> The other day I was giving it a chance and browsing the web happily, and 
>> then all of a sudden my machine died on me, I could not move the mouse, I 
>> could not CTRL+ALT+F2 to get a terminal(since CTRL+ALT+BACKSPACE was removed 
>> by Xorg(thanks guys))
>>  
> This functionality was disabled by default but never removed.
>
>
>> I submitted it and it says it went to the kernel and not to FIREFOX.  How 
>> sad it was a kernel oops and not a FIREFOX oops.  I beg to differ.
>>
>>  
> What you have shown is quite clearly a kernel bug although Firefox might
> have triggered it.  It seems a misdirected rant to me.
>
> Rahul
>

The kernel has had this very odd bug since version 2.6.32.10, but once 
even 2.6.32.9 did it--though it had not done this before I used 
2.6.32.10 for the first time. And it happened just a couple of hours or 
so ago with 2.6.32.11. And it usually happens when I have Firefox 
running, especially in the foreground, and move the cursor to the bottom 
of the screen to reveal the panel, which I keep hidden.

But I have not been able to capture any debugging information.

I happen to think that Firefox does a lot of things for me that 
Konqueror cannot handle. For example, Konqueror cannot handle the many 
Java scripts that, say, Digg.com has. "Digging," even when I am logged 
on, always seems to go nowhere in Konqueror.

Temlakos
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Re: firefox rant, thanks for konqueror to the KDE devs.

[Rahul Sundaram]

On 04/11/2010 02:13 AM, Antonio Olivares wrote:
> Dear fellow Fedora users,
>
> \begin{rant}
> I have tried to use firefox on/off for a while, and I know since it is 
> opensource, Fedora will stick with it even though it has become a big and 
> ugly resource taker :(.
>
> The other day I was giving it a chance and browsing the web happily, and then 
> all of a sudden my machine died on me, I could not move the mouse, I could 
> not CTRL+ALT+F2 to get a terminal(since CTRL+ALT+BACKSPACE was removed by 
> Xorg(thanks guys))
This functionality was disabled by default but never removed.  

> I submitted it and it says it went to the kernel and not to FIREFOX.  How sad 
> it was a kernel oops and not a FIREFOX oops.  I beg to differ.  
>   

What you have shown is quite clearly a kernel bug although Firefox might
have triggered it.  It seems a misdirected rant to me.

Rahul
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