Re: USB printer connection

2013-06-17 Thread Eddie G. O'Connor Jr.

On 06/18/2013 12:53 AM, Tim wrote:

Allegedly, on or about 17 June 2013, Eddie G. O'Connor Jr. sent:

I guess I'll have to ditch my SAMBA 3 whitepapers and look into
the NFS thingie some more!

Always explore the options.


And I assume the NFS has "workable" access and file permissioning?

Linux box to Linux box, it works virtually the same as using a local
hard drive.  I can't remember about Windows to Linux (it was long ago).

Samba, when you use some of the extensions can do apparently native
Linux to Linux behaviour, but I found it far more convoluted than using
NFS.

NFS has security implications, and it's not without reason it got known
as no f*g security.  Samba also has security implications, especially
when people set it up to have none (the same people who drop firewalls,
turn off SELinux, have everything world writeable...).


Hmmstill don't know why everyone thinks Windows is the best and
brightest?!

Brainwashing...  Or, given no choice, they just go with the flow.


Well thanks for the info! Time to hit the web and do some serious research!



Cheers!



EGO II


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Re: USB printer connection

2013-06-17 Thread Tim
Allegedly, on or about 17 June 2013, Eddie G. O'Connor Jr. sent:
> I guess I'll have to ditch my SAMBA 3 whitepapers and look into 
> the NFS thingie some more!

Always explore the options.

> And I assume the NFS has "workable" access and file permissioning?

Linux box to Linux box, it works virtually the same as using a local
hard drive.  I can't remember about Windows to Linux (it was long ago).

Samba, when you use some of the extensions can do apparently native
Linux to Linux behaviour, but I found it far more convoluted than using
NFS.

NFS has security implications, and it's not without reason it got known
as no f*g security.  Samba also has security implications, especially
when people set it up to have none (the same people who drop firewalls,
turn off SELinux, have everything world writeable...).

> Hmmstill don't know why everyone thinks Windows is the best and
> brightest?!

Brainwashing...  Or, given no choice, they just go with the flow.

-- 
[tim@localhost ~]$ uname -rsvp
Linux 3.8.13-100.fc17.x86_64 #1 SMP Mon May 13 13:36:17 UTC 2013 x86_64

All mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted, there is no point
trying to privately email me, I will only read messages posted to the
public lists.

George Orwell's '1984' was supposed to be a warning against tyranny, not
a set of instructions for supposedly democratic governments.



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Re: USB printer connection

2013-06-17 Thread Eddie G. O'Connor Jr.

On 06/17/2013 10:13 AM, Tim wrote:

Allegedly, on or about 17 June 2013, Eddie G. O'Connor Jr. sent:

why is SAMBA still around?,,,I always thought the Open Source Universe
was about finding and using software that "Just Worked"?

When it comes to interfacing your open source, open standards OS, with a
closed source, non-standard, ever-changing-standards, OS, implementing
something that works is a serious challenge.  It's the evil side of the
equation that's the real problem.

But you're trying to bridge together two systems that work in
fundamentally different ways.  So you've got to do things to handle the
differences, or lose out where there is no direct equivalent, and put up
with annoying workarounds.

File and directory permissions are one thing.  The evil OS doesn't have
execute permissions, so the simplistic solution is to treat all files as
if the execute permission is set.  That has annoying repercussions.

Some of the evil OS distributions had no concept of different users, so
everyfile was available to anyone.  Or no direct way of dealing with a
file owned by me, with different r/w permissions for a usergroup, and
different r/w permissions for other users.  So file permissions get
mangled into dopey defaults as they pass from one system to another.

User accounts are handled differently on each computer, so you need some
point of translation that "tim" on Linux is "Tim" on Windows.  Or
perhaps "tim" on Windows is "ts1201" on Linux, to be even more painful.

Windows SMB depends on a machine being in charge (the browse master),
that machine handles identifying which machine is which amongst all of
the clients.  They hold an election between all machines on the LAN, to
see who's the biggest and best, and that one wins.  If another machine
joins the network, an election gets held again.  If a machine leaves the
network (or drops off, leaving everyone else in the lurch, since it
doesn't have any concept of actually logging off), the rest of the
clients can get left in limbo for a quarter of an hour before another
browser master takes over.  It gets worse if anybody's IP changed in the
meantime, because you can't just simply find it a that the same IP you
used previously.  I've watched people end up having to reboot every
Windows box on a LAN just to get Windows file sharing working again.  To
quote part of an internet meme, it's designed by frickin' idiots.

The underlying system that Samba lets us access is a complete mess, like
everything that Microsoft does.  If they ever did anything in a
sensible, and user-friendly manner, it'd be a shock.  So, I avoid it
like the plague.  I see no point in going through hell trying to
configure Samba to print, when I can simply configure the Windows
nuisance box to use the CUPS server, directly.  And it can be easier to
install a NFS client on Windows to access a Linux file server, than mess
around with Samba.

Using Windows is as much fun as going to the dentist.

WOW!.I guess I'll have to ditch my SAMBA 3 whitepapers and look into 
the NFS thingie some more! And I assume the NFS has "workable" access 
and file permissioning? in a bi-directional state? Hmmstill don't 
know why everyone thinks Windows is the best and brightest?!



EGO II
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Re: USB printer connection

2013-06-17 Thread Tim
Allegedly, on or about 17 June 2013, Eddie G. O'Connor Jr. sent:
> why is SAMBA still around?,,,I always thought the Open Source Universe
> was about finding and using software that "Just Worked"? 

When it comes to interfacing your open source, open standards OS, with a
closed source, non-standard, ever-changing-standards, OS, implementing
something that works is a serious challenge.  It's the evil side of the
equation that's the real problem.

But you're trying to bridge together two systems that work in
fundamentally different ways.  So you've got to do things to handle the
differences, or lose out where there is no direct equivalent, and put up
with annoying workarounds.

File and directory permissions are one thing.  The evil OS doesn't have
execute permissions, so the simplistic solution is to treat all files as
if the execute permission is set.  That has annoying repercussions.

Some of the evil OS distributions had no concept of different users, so
everyfile was available to anyone.  Or no direct way of dealing with a
file owned by me, with different r/w permissions for a usergroup, and
different r/w permissions for other users.  So file permissions get
mangled into dopey defaults as they pass from one system to another.

User accounts are handled differently on each computer, so you need some
point of translation that "tim" on Linux is "Tim" on Windows.  Or
perhaps "tim" on Windows is "ts1201" on Linux, to be even more painful.

Windows SMB depends on a machine being in charge (the browse master),
that machine handles identifying which machine is which amongst all of
the clients.  They hold an election between all machines on the LAN, to
see who's the biggest and best, and that one wins.  If another machine
joins the network, an election gets held again.  If a machine leaves the
network (or drops off, leaving everyone else in the lurch, since it
doesn't have any concept of actually logging off), the rest of the
clients can get left in limbo for a quarter of an hour before another
browser master takes over.  It gets worse if anybody's IP changed in the
meantime, because you can't just simply find it a that the same IP you
used previously.  I've watched people end up having to reboot every
Windows box on a LAN just to get Windows file sharing working again.  To
quote part of an internet meme, it's designed by frickin' idiots.

The underlying system that Samba lets us access is a complete mess, like
everything that Microsoft does.  If they ever did anything in a
sensible, and user-friendly manner, it'd be a shock.  So, I avoid it
like the plague.  I see no point in going through hell trying to
configure Samba to print, when I can simply configure the Windows
nuisance box to use the CUPS server, directly.  And it can be easier to
install a NFS client on Windows to access a Linux file server, than mess
around with Samba.

Using Windows is as much fun as going to the dentist.

-- 
[tim@localhost ~]$ uname -rsvp
Linux 3.8.13-100.fc17.x86_64 #1 SMP Mon May 13 13:36:17 UTC 2013 x86_64

All mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted, there is no point
trying to privately email me, I will only read messages posted to the
public lists.

George Orwell's '1984' was supposed to be a warning against tyranny, not
a set of instructions for supposedly democratic governments.



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Re: USB printer connection

2013-06-16 Thread Eddie G. O'Connor Jr.

On 06/16/2013 10:23 PM, Tim wrote:

Tim:

I've always found dealing with Samba's shenanigans much more effort
than configuring Windows to 

Eddie G. O'Connor Jr.:

I have never used SAMBAbut I've always been told (by Windows
admins no less!...LOL!) that it was the easiest thing in the world to
useis it not so?

Probably easier to manage than what they're used to doing (Windows
making you juggle straight razors, without handles, soaked in petrol,
above a naked flame).

While it wasn't too hard (using Samba) to share in one direction, it was
a nuisance to have to add users on each client (because Samba handled
users separately than the system), and the mucking around that was
needed to configure printer drivers to run a printer through it...

Everything about printing on Windows was a pain in the arse.  Each
client needed the printer set up on, and drivers configured on each
client.  Compared to Linux just needing the printer set up on the
computer it was attached to, and all the clients sending standard
printer data to the CUPS server that was automatically found by all the
clients.

Samba may have improved since then, but the mentality of it was all
wrong (done in the Windows mindset).

Don't drag Linux down to their level.

WOW!going off of those statementsthen why is SAMBA still 
around?,,,I always thought the Open Source Universe was about finding 
and using software that "Just Worked"?...hmm.gonna have to look into 
this stuff!



EGO II
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Re: USB printer connection

2013-06-16 Thread Tim
Tim:
>> I've always found dealing with Samba's shenanigans much more effort
>> than configuring Windows to 

Eddie G. O'Connor Jr.:
> I have never used SAMBAbut I've always been told (by Windows
> admins no less!...LOL!) that it was the easiest thing in the world to
> useis it not so? 

Probably easier to manage than what they're used to doing (Windows
making you juggle straight razors, without handles, soaked in petrol,
above a naked flame).

While it wasn't too hard (using Samba) to share in one direction, it was
a nuisance to have to add users on each client (because Samba handled
users separately than the system), and the mucking around that was
needed to configure printer drivers to run a printer through it...

Everything about printing on Windows was a pain in the arse.  Each
client needed the printer set up on, and drivers configured on each
client.  Compared to Linux just needing the printer set up on the
computer it was attached to, and all the clients sending standard
printer data to the CUPS server that was automatically found by all the
clients.

Samba may have improved since then, but the mentality of it was all
wrong (done in the Windows mindset).

Don't drag Linux down to their level.

-- 
[tim@localhost ~]$ uname -rsvp
Linux 3.8.13-100.fc17.x86_64 #1 SMP Mon May 13 13:36:17 UTC 2013 x86_64

All mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted, there is no point
trying to privately email me, I will only read messages posted to the
public lists.

George Orwell's '1984' was supposed to be a warning against tyranny, not
a set of instructions for supposedly democratic governments.



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Re: USB printer connection

2013-06-16 Thread Eddie G. O'Connor Jr.

On 06/16/2013 07:21 AM, Tim wrote:

Allegedly, on or about 15 June 2013, Fred Smith sent:

Samba would be useful if you had windoze machines on the network that
wanted to use the printer, assuming wanted to share it out from a
linux box.

I've always found dealing with Samba's shenanigans much more effort than
configuring Windows to print to a printer using HTTP/IPP (i.e. CUPS).

Quite apart from the mess that you need to deal with to get a printer
going through Samba, it's yet another thing in the middle, and it's
completely unnecessary.

I have never used SAMBAbut I've always been told (by Windows admins 
no less!...LOL!) that it was the easiest thing in the world to useis 
it not so?



EGO II
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Re: USB printer connection

2013-06-16 Thread Tim
Allegedly, on or about 15 June 2013, Doug sent:
> I have put a JetDirect into an HP2200D and it works, mostly. But when
> I run a self-test, the paper shows an IP address of 192.168.0.149.
> If I ping that IP, I get inknown host. Anybody know any more about
> the JetDirect? If I had a static address for the printer that worked,
> I would set up the computer or the router to use that static IP. 

A printer doesn't have to respond to pings, it only has to print.  It
may respond to pings, but the network name you see on the command line,
if there is one, is how your computer has resolved the IP to a name.  If
you want to have a hostname associated with that IP, then either put it
into your /etc/hosts file, or into your DNS server (if you have one).
And, the printer will need to stay fixed to the same IP.

-- 
[tim@localhost ~]$ uname -rsvp
Linux 3.8.13-100.fc17.x86_64 #1 SMP Mon May 13 13:36:17 UTC 2013 x86_64

All mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted, there is no point
trying to privately email me, I will only read messages posted to the
public lists.

George Orwell's '1984' was supposed to be a warning against tyranny, not
a set of instructions for supposedly democratic governments.



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Re: USB printer connection

2013-06-16 Thread Tim
Allegedly, on or about 15 June 2013, Reindl Harald sent:
> these days printers with WLAN and Ethernet are cheap
> 
> why bother with workarounds while virtually nobody
> is still using non-network-capabale printers? 

Because many modern printers are crap?  They just get worse and worse
(short lifespan, expensive and miniscule ink or toner supplies).  My old
HP printer is old enough to legally drink and vote.

-- 
[tim@localhost ~]$ uname -rsvp
Linux 3.8.13-100.fc17.x86_64 #1 SMP Mon May 13 13:36:17 UTC 2013 x86_64

All mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted, there is no point
trying to privately email me, I will only read messages posted to the
public lists.

George Orwell's '1984' was supposed to be a warning against tyranny, not
a set of instructions for supposedly democratic governments.



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Re: USB printer connection

2013-06-16 Thread Tim
Allegedly, on or about 15 June 2013, Fred Smith sent:
> Samba would be useful if you had windoze machines on the network that
> wanted to use the printer, assuming wanted to share it out from a
> linux box. 

I've always found dealing with Samba's shenanigans much more effort than
configuring Windows to print to a printer using HTTP/IPP (i.e. CUPS).  

Quite apart from the mess that you need to deal with to get a printer
going through Samba, it's yet another thing in the middle, and it's
completely unnecessary.

-- 
[tim@localhost ~]$ uname -rsvp
Linux 3.8.13-100.fc17.x86_64 #1 SMP Mon May 13 13:36:17 UTC 2013 x86_64

All mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted, there is no point
trying to privately email me, I will only read messages posted to the
public lists.

George Orwell's '1984' was supposed to be a warning against tyranny, not
a set of instructions for supposedly democratic governments.



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Re: USB printer connection

2013-06-15 Thread Timothy Murphy
Fred Smith wrote:

>>  I have a printer (HP Officejet J4580)
>>  which only has a USB interface.
>>  What is the simplest way to connect this printer
>>  to a WiFi LAN?

>> I should have said that it is too far from the server
>> for a direct USB connection.
>> Incidentally, why would I need to use Samba?
> 
> Samba would be useful if you had windoze machines on the network that
> wanted to use the printer, assuming wanted to share it out from a linux
> box.

I haven't found any problem printing from Windows machines on the LAN
without using Samba.
(The server is running on CentOS.)

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Re: USB printer connection

2013-06-15 Thread Reindl Harald


Am 15.06.2013 21:25, schrieb Timothy Murphy:
> I should have said that it is too far from the server
> for a direct USB connection.
> Incidentally, why would I need to use Samba?
> 
> At present, I just carry my laptop to the printer,
> which is not too onerous.
> I just wondered if there was a simple alternative,
> but it seems not.

these days printers with WLAN and Ethernet are cheap

why bother with workarounds while virtually nobody
is still using non-network-capabale printers?

http://www.shopping.hp.com/en_US/home-office/-/products/Printers/HP-Deskjet/CZ044A?HP-Deskjet-3510-e-All-in-One-Printer

Features:
Print and share wirelessly,[2] and connect to your wireless network quickly and 
easily



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Re: USB printer connection

2013-06-15 Thread Fred Erickson
On Sat, 15 Jun 2013 21:25:55 +0200
Timothy Murphy  wrote:

> Mark LaPierre wrote:
> 
>  I have a printer (HP Officejet J4580)
>  which only has a USB interface.
>  What is the simplest way to connect this printer
>  to a WiFi LAN?
> >>>
> >>> "Simplest" is probably through an access point or router that has
> >>> a USB port on it, specifically for connecting your printer to a
> >>> WLAN.  It's been a while since I've seen one, so I can't offer a
> >>> recommendation.
> >>
> >> Asus RT-N16 apparently supports that configuration, though I have
> >> no need to use mine for that since my printer is already
> >> networked. YMMV.
> 
> > Or, you could plug it into a USB port on your computer and share it
> > with the network with Samba for no money.
> 
> I should have said that it is too far from the server
> for a direct USB connection.
> Incidentally, why would I need to use Samba?
> 
> At present, I just carry my laptop to the printer,
> which is not too onerous.
> I just wondered if there was a simple alternative,
> but it seems not.

Raspberry Pi as print server & usb wifi dongle ?
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Re: USB printer connection

2013-06-15 Thread Fred Smith
On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 09:25:55PM +0200, Timothy Murphy wrote:
> Mark LaPierre wrote:
> 
>  I have a printer (HP Officejet J4580)
>  which only has a USB interface.
>  What is the simplest way to connect this printer
>  to a WiFi LAN?
> >>>
> >>> "Simplest" is probably through an access point or router that has a USB
> >>> port on it, specifically for connecting your printer to a WLAN.  It's
> >>> been a while since I've seen one, so I can't offer a recommendation.
> >>
> >> Asus RT-N16 apparently supports that configuration, though I have no
> >> need to use mine for that since my printer is already networked. YMMV.
> 
> > Or, you could plug it into a USB port on your computer and share it with
> > the network with Samba for no money.
> 
> I should have said that it is too far from the server
> for a direct USB connection.
> Incidentally, why would I need to use Samba?

Samba would be useful if you had windoze machines on the network that
wanted to use the printer, assuming wanted to share it out from a linux
box.
> 
> At present, I just carry my laptop to the printer,
> which is not too onerous.
> I just wondered if there was a simple alternative,
> but it seems not.
> 
> 
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  The eyes of the Lord are everywhere, 
keeping watch on the wicked and the good.
- Proverbs 15:3 (niv) -
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Re: USB printer connection

2013-06-15 Thread Timothy Murphy
Mark LaPierre wrote:

 I have a printer (HP Officejet J4580)
 which only has a USB interface.
 What is the simplest way to connect this printer
 to a WiFi LAN?
>>>
>>> "Simplest" is probably through an access point or router that has a USB
>>> port on it, specifically for connecting your printer to a WLAN.  It's
>>> been a while since I've seen one, so I can't offer a recommendation.
>>
>> Asus RT-N16 apparently supports that configuration, though I have no
>> need to use mine for that since my printer is already networked. YMMV.

> Or, you could plug it into a USB port on your computer and share it with
> the network with Samba for no money.

I should have said that it is too far from the server
for a direct USB connection.
Incidentally, why would I need to use Samba?

At present, I just carry my laptop to the printer,
which is not too onerous.
I just wondered if there was a simple alternative,
but it seems not.


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Re: USB printer connection

2013-06-15 Thread Doug

On 06/15/2013 09:21 AM, Fred Smith wrote:

On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 07:43:02PM +0930, Tim wrote:

Allegedly, on or about 15 June 2013, Timothy Murphy sent:

I have a printer (HP Officejet J4580)
which only has a USB interface.
What is the simplest way to connect this printer
to a WiFi LAN?


"Simplest" is probably through an access point or router that has a USB
port on it, specifically for connecting your printer to a WLAN.  It's
been a while since I've seen one, so I can't offer a recommendation.


Asus RT-N16 apparently supports that configuration, though I have no
need to use mine for that since my printer is already networked. YMMV.

alternatively, if you don't mind spending a little money, you might look
around for a HP JetDirect add-on card for your printer.


I have put a JetDirect into an HP2200D and it works, mostly. But when
I run a self-test, the paper shows an IP address of 192.168.0.149.
If I ping that IP, I get inknown host. Anybody know any more about
the JetDirect? If I had a static address for the printer that worked,
I would set up the computer or the router to use that static IP.

--doug

--
Blessed are the peacemakers..for they shall be shot at from both sides. 
--A.M.Greeley

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Re: USB printer connection

2013-06-15 Thread Mark LaPierre

On 06/15/2013 09:21 AM, Fred Smith wrote:

On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 07:43:02PM +0930, Tim wrote:

Allegedly, on or about 15 June 2013, Timothy Murphy sent:

I have a printer (HP Officejet J4580)
which only has a USB interface.
What is the simplest way to connect this printer
to a WiFi LAN?


"Simplest" is probably through an access point or router that has a USB
port on it, specifically for connecting your printer to a WLAN.  It's
been a while since I've seen one, so I can't offer a recommendation.


Asus RT-N16 apparently supports that configuration, though I have no
need to use mine for that since my printer is already networked. YMMV.

alternatively, if you don't mind spending a little money, you might look
around for a HP JetDirect add-on card for your printer.



Or, you could plug it into a USB port on your computer and share it with 
the network with Samba for no money.


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Re: USB printer connection

2013-06-15 Thread Fred Smith
On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 07:43:02PM +0930, Tim wrote:
> Allegedly, on or about 15 June 2013, Timothy Murphy sent:
> > I have a printer (HP Officejet J4580)
> > which only has a USB interface.
> > What is the simplest way to connect this printer
> > to a WiFi LAN?
> 
> "Simplest" is probably through an access point or router that has a USB
> port on it, specifically for connecting your printer to a WLAN.  It's
> been a while since I've seen one, so I can't offer a recommendation.

Asus RT-N16 apparently supports that configuration, though I have no
need to use mine for that since my printer is already networked. YMMV.

alternatively, if you don't mind spending a little money, you might look
around for a HP JetDirect add-on card for your printer.

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 Those who do what is right can run to him for safety.
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Re: USB printer connection

2013-06-15 Thread Tim
Allegedly, on or about 15 June 2013, Timothy Murphy sent:
> I have a printer (HP Officejet J4580)
> which only has a USB interface.
> What is the simplest way to connect this printer
> to a WiFi LAN?

"Simplest" is probably through an access point or router that has a USB
port on it, specifically for connecting your printer to a WLAN.  It's
been a while since I've seen one, so I can't offer a recommendation.

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USB printer connection

2013-06-15 Thread Timothy Murphy
I have a printer (HP Officejet J4580)
which only has a USB interface.
What is the simplest way to connect this printer
to a WiFi LAN?


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