Re: Virtualization Recommendations?

2022-07-14 Thread Mauricio Tavares 
On Tue, Jul 12, 2022 at 12:31 PM Patrick O'Callaghan
 wrote:
>
> On Tue, 2022-07-12 at 12:07 -0400, Tom Horsley wrote:
> > On Tue, 12 Jul 2022 09:38:36 -0600
> > Sbob wrote:
> >
> > > Are there others?
> >
> > The native linux qemu/libvirt stuff works fine for me.
>
> Agreed. It's also the only game in town if you want to do GPU pass-
> through. On the downside, the documentation is spread out over a number
> of different projects (QEMU+KVM+libvirt) and not focused on the
> beginner. I think VirtualBox is much better in that respect.
>
  Not only GPU but any kind of passthrough. I need PCI/PCIe
passthrough for my research like politicians need clueless voters.
Doing that on ESXi was, to put it as nicely as I can, not possible
specially at the level I needed.

> poc
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Re: Virtualization Recommendations?

2022-07-14 Thread Patrick O'Callaghan 
On Wed, 2022-07-13 at 16:03 -0700, Samuel Sieb wrote:
> On 2022-07-13 03:07, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> > On Tue, 2022-07-12 at 17:37 -0400, Tom Horsley wrote:
> > > On Tue, 12 Jul 2022 22:31:44 +0100
> > > Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> > > 
> > > > try
> > > > figuring out how to share files between host and guest
> > > 
> > > I just use the same technique I'd use for a "real" machine: NFS
> > > or
> > > SMB :-).
> > 
> > Indeed, however that isn't obvious from the docs, especially for
> > those
> > coming to virt-manager from VBox, where it's much more pointy-
> > clicky.
> > It's also likely to involve fiddling with firewall rules (at least
> > it
> > was when I did it). Given that this is likely to be a basic
> > requirement
> > for many users, I feel it should be made easier, or at least better
> > documented, especially as there's more than one way to do it. See
> > for
> > example:
> 
> I've never had that requirement until recently when I was working
> with a 
> windows VM and needed to get a file in (or maybe out).  I ended up
> using 
> winscp which was much simpler.  I'm usually using Fedora in the VMs,
> so 
> transferring files is easy.

*Transferring* files and *sharing* files are not the same thing. I
specifically say "sharing" because I mean having two (or more) systems
accessing a common pool of files, not manually copying them back and
forth.

poc
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Re: Virtualization Recommendations?

2022-07-14 Thread George N. White III 
On Wed, Jul 13, 2022 at 8:03 PM Samuel Sieb  wrote:

> On 2022-07-13 03:07, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> > On Tue, 2022-07-12 at 17:37 -0400, Tom Horsley wrote:
> >> On Tue, 12 Jul 2022 22:31:44 +0100
> >> Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> >>
> >>> try
> >>> figuring out how to share files between host and guest
> >>
> >> I just use the same technique I'd use for a "real" machine: NFS or
> >> SMB :-).
> >
> > Indeed, however that isn't obvious from the docs, especially for those
> > coming to virt-manager from VBox, where it's much more pointy-clicky.
> > It's also likely to involve fiddling with firewall rules (at least it
> > was when I did it). Given that this is likely to be a basic requirement
> > for many users, I feel it should be made easier, or at least better
> > documented, especially as there's more than one way to do it. See for
> > example:
>
> I've never had that requirement until recently when I was working with a
> windows VM and needed to get a file in (or maybe out).  I ended up using
> winscp which was much simpler.  I'm usually using Fedora in the VMs, so
> transferring files is easy.
>

Coming from a job where Windows was the "corporate standard", I've often
needed to move files between Windows and linux. Windows 10 provides
C:\Windows\System32\OpenSSH\sftp.exe, and rsync is available as a
"standalone" install based on Cygwin, and from Msys2.   Rsync does need
some care with advanced options due to the differences in the underlying
filesystems  (well documented in Cygwin).

My former work was all IPv4, IPv6 support in Windows has some gaps (e.g.,
WSL2).

-- 
George N. White III
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Re: Virtualization Recommendations?

2022-07-13 Thread Samuel Sieb 

On 2022-07-13 03:07, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:

On Tue, 2022-07-12 at 17:37 -0400, Tom Horsley wrote:

On Tue, 12 Jul 2022 22:31:44 +0100
Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:


try
figuring out how to share files between host and guest


I just use the same technique I'd use for a "real" machine: NFS or
SMB :-).


Indeed, however that isn't obvious from the docs, especially for those
coming to virt-manager from VBox, where it's much more pointy-clicky.
It's also likely to involve fiddling with firewall rules (at least it
was when I did it). Given that this is likely to be a basic requirement
for many users, I feel it should be made easier, or at least better
documented, especially as there's more than one way to do it. See for
example:


I've never had that requirement until recently when I was working with a 
windows VM and needed to get a file in (or maybe out).  I ended up using 
winscp which was much simpler.  I'm usually using Fedora in the VMs, so 
transferring files is easy.

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Re: Virtualization Recommendations?

2022-07-13 Thread Patrick O'Callaghan 
On Tue, 2022-07-12 at 17:37 -0400, Tom Horsley wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Jul 2022 22:31:44 +0100
> Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> 
> > try
> > figuring out how to share files between host and guest
> 
> I just use the same technique I'd use for a "real" machine: NFS or
> SMB :-).

Indeed, however that isn't obvious from the docs, especially for those
coming to virt-manager from VBox, where it's much more pointy-clicky.
It's also likely to involve fiddling with firewall rules (at least it
was when I did it). Given that this is likely to be a basic requirement
for many users, I feel it should be made easier, or at least better
documented, especially as there's more than one way to do it. See for
example:

https://libvirt.org/kbase/virtiofs.html

poc
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Re: Virtualization Recommendations?

2022-07-13 Thread ja 
On Tue, 2022-07-12 at 09:38 -0600, Sbob wrote:
> All;
> 
> 
> I am frustrated with VMware, I am running Fedora35 and it refuses to 
> compile since kernel 5.17.14-200.fc35.x86_64 so I am stuck running a 
> kernel 3+ updates behind. At this point I have to exclude the kernel 
> from any updates so the only kernel that VMware works with does not get 
> removed.
> 
> 
> Are there any other virtualization tools that would continue to work, or 
> at least continue to work with more recent kernels? Is Xen an option? 
> Are there others?
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 

I have been using this for well over a year with VMware Workstaion
https://github.com/mkubecek/vmware-host-modules

Currently using
ja@harting ~ 1$ vmware -v
VMware Workstation 16.2.3 build-19376536
ja@harting ~ 3$ uname -r
5.18.10-200.fc36.x86_64


My idiots guide to myself looks like this - no guarantees!
I just cut/paste the commands into a bash terminal in suitable lumps.
It should be a script!

The following procedure works cleanly

Part 1
Down load the master component from github (Do this "Only Once"!)
mkdir /global/db/sw/VMware_16/mkubecek
https://github.com/mkubecek/vmware-host-modules Use the green "Code" 
button to download the zip version
vmware-host-modules-master.zip
unzip "in situ"
Read the Install notes if required
/global/db/sw/VMware_16/mkubecek/vmware-host-modules-master/Install
or just follow the following recipe

//-
Part 2
As user ja
Version="16.2.3"
cd /global/db/sw/VMware_16/mkubecek/Patches
wget 
https://github.com/mkubecek/vmware-host-modules/archive/workstation-$Version.tar.gz
If required
tar -xzf workstation-$Version.tar.gz
If 
required
cd 
/global/db/sw/VMware_16/mkubecek/Patches/vmware-host-modules-workstation-$Version

make clean maybe
make
su
make install

vmware  //To test 
things are OK
//Exit 
from vmware
Must do this to be sure
systemctl restart vmware.service
systemctl restart vmtoolsd.service
systemctl restart  vmware-USBArbitrator.service
exit

Test a virtual machine
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Re: Virtualization Recommendations?

2022-07-12 Thread ToddAndMargo via users 

On 7/12/22 08:38, Sbob wrote:

All;


I am frustrated with VMware, I am running Fedora35 and it refuses to 
compile since kernel 5.17.14-200.fc35.x86_64 so I am stuck running a 
kernel 3+ updates behind. At this point I have to exclude the kernel 
from any updates so the only kernel that VMware works with does not get 
removed.



Are there any other virtualization tools that would continue to work, or 
at least continue to work with more recent kernels? Is Xen an option? 
Are there others?



Thanks in advance


# dnf install kvm virt-manager libvirt
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Re: Virtualization Recommendations?

2022-07-12 Thread Sam Varshavchik 

Sbob writes:


All;


I am frustrated with VMware, I am running Fedora35 and it refuses to compile  
since kernel 5.17.14-200.fc35.x86_64 so I am stuck running a kernel 3+  
updates behind. At this point I have to exclude the kernel from any updates  
so the only kernel that VMware works with does not get removed.



Are there any other virtualization tools that would continue to work, or at  
least continue to work with more recent kernels? Is Xen an option? Are there  
others?



Thanks in advance


dnf install virt-manager

?

qemu and virt-manager works fine for me. Win10 a bit sluggish, but is  
perfectly fine for my purposes.


I even got Win10 to work with UEFI and TPM emulation, when trying to update  
it to Win11. In the end I couldn't because of the CPU requirement, and I'm  
just too lazy to figure out how to hack around it.


pgp4YTpTDzXLI.pgp
Description: PGP signature
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Re: Virtualization Recommendations?

2022-07-12 Thread Tom Horsley 
On Tue, 12 Jul 2022 22:31:44 +0100
Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:

> try
> figuring out how to share files between host and guest

I just use the same technique I'd use for a "real" machine: NFS or SMB :-).
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Re: Virtualization Recommendations?

2022-07-12 Thread Patrick O'Callaghan 
On Tue, 2022-07-12 at 09:58 -0700, Samuel Sieb wrote:
> On 2022-07-12 09:29, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> > On Tue, 2022-07-12 at 12:07 -0400, Tom Horsley wrote:
> > > On Tue, 12 Jul 2022 09:38:36 -0600
> > > Sbob wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Are there others?
> > > 
> > > The native linux qemu/libvirt stuff works fine for me.
> > 
> > Agreed. It's also the only game in town if you want to do GPU pass-
> > through. On the downside, the documentation is spread out over a
> > number
> > of different projects (QEMU+KVM+libvirt) and not focused on the
> > beginner. I think VirtualBox is much better in that respect.
> 
> It's been extremely rare that I need to use any documentation for it
> and 
> only because I'm trying to do something unusual.  Normally, it just 
> works with no problems.  Run virt-manager to get started.

Just one example: using only the libvirt docs and virt-manager GUI
(which appears to be essentially
undocumented, https://virt-manager.org/ being largely useless), try
figuring out how to share files between host and guest. Compare this
with the instructions for VirtualBox.

poc
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Re: Virtualization Recommendations?

2022-07-12 Thread Samuel Sieb 

On 2022-07-12 09:29, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:

On Tue, 2022-07-12 at 12:07 -0400, Tom Horsley wrote:

On Tue, 12 Jul 2022 09:38:36 -0600
Sbob wrote:


Are there others?


The native linux qemu/libvirt stuff works fine for me.


Agreed. It's also the only game in town if you want to do GPU pass-
through. On the downside, the documentation is spread out over a number
of different projects (QEMU+KVM+libvirt) and not focused on the
beginner. I think VirtualBox is much better in that respect.


It's been extremely rare that I need to use any documentation for it and 
only because I'm trying to do something unusual.  Normally, it just 
works with no problems.  Run virt-manager to get started.


There's also Gnome Boxes which might be a simpler way to start, but it's 
still the same VM system underneath.

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Re: Virtualization Recommendations?

2022-07-12 Thread Sbob 

Thanks!


On 7/12/22 10:05, Mark C. Allman wrote:

On 7/12/22 11:38, Sbob wrote:

All;


I am frustrated with VMware, I am running Fedora35 and it refuses to 
compile since kernel 5.17.14-200.fc35.x86_64 so I am stuck running a 
kernel 3+ updates behind. At this point I have to exclude the kernel 
from any updates so the only kernel that VMware works with does not 
get removed.



Are there any other virtualization tools that would continue to work, 
or at least continue to work with more recent kernels? Is Xen an 
option? Are there others?



Thanks in advance

I completely share your frustration. I run Windows 11 in a VM. I've 
looked into switching in the past but ran into all kinds of license 
issues for Windows and other tools. All the tools think I'm running 
everything on a different system. I tried to explain to Microsoft what 
I was doing -- no luck. Like talking to a brick wall.


I wrote up the patches for kernel 5.18. Check out 
https://medium.com/@allmanpc/vmware-workstation-player-16-2-and-linux-kernels-5-18-5cdc10a4d32a. 
It doesn't fix the larger problem but it would help to get around the 
immediate issue.



*Mark C. Allman, PMP, CSM, SSM*
Sr. Project Manager/Scrum Master, Allman Professional Consulting, 
Inc., www.allmanpc.com 
Founder, See How You Ski, www.seehowyouski.com 


Ultra Runner, www.bostonorbust.run 
617-947-4263, Twitter: @allmanpc, LinkedIn: 
www.linkedin.com/in/allmanpc 




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Re: Virtualization Recommendations?

2022-07-12 Thread Mike Wright 

On 7/12/22 08:38, Sbob wrote:

All;


I am frustrated with VMware, I am running Fedora35 and it refuses to 
compile since kernel 5.17.14-200.fc35.x86_64 so I am stuck running a 
kernel 3+ updates behind. At this point I have to exclude the kernel 
from any updates so the only kernel that VMware works with does not get 
removed.



Are there any other virtualization tools that would continue to work, or 
at least continue to work with more recent kernels? Is Xen an option? 


If you're interested in running servers and don't need a gui or audio 
and ssh is good enough I'd recommend LXC.  Lightweight container system 
that shares the kernel and uses cgroups for resource limiting and 
isolation.  Can accept pass-thru devices and/or virtual devices.


I've been using LXC for years and it has never crashed although I have 
managed to crash a VM or two while experimenting :/


It doesn't do Windows.

:m
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Re: Virtualization Recommendations?

2022-07-12 Thread Tom Horsley 
On Tue, 12 Jul 2022 17:29:58 +0100
Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:

> It's also the only game in town if you want to do GPU pass-
> through.

And if you need 3D graphics in your Windows VM, you have to do GPU
pass through :-). (Unless various virtual 3D drivers for Windows
have made progress I haven't noticed).
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Re: Virtualization Recommendations?

2022-07-12 Thread Patrick O'Callaghan 
On Tue, 2022-07-12 at 12:07 -0400, Tom Horsley wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Jul 2022 09:38:36 -0600
> Sbob wrote:
> 
> > Are there others?
> 
> The native linux qemu/libvirt stuff works fine for me.

Agreed. It's also the only game in town if you want to do GPU pass-
through. On the downside, the documentation is spread out over a number
of different projects (QEMU+KVM+libvirt) and not focused on the
beginner. I think VirtualBox is much better in that respect.

poc
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Re: Virtualization Recommendations?

2022-07-12 Thread Tom Horsley 
On Tue, 12 Jul 2022 09:38:36 -0600
Sbob wrote:

> Are there others?

The native linux qemu/libvirt stuff works fine for me.
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Re: Virtualization Recommendations?

2022-07-12 Thread Mark C. Allman via users 

On 7/12/22 11:38, Sbob wrote:

All;


I am frustrated with VMware, I am running Fedora35 and it refuses to 
compile since kernel 5.17.14-200.fc35.x86_64 so I am stuck running a 
kernel 3+ updates behind. At this point I have to exclude the kernel 
from any updates so the only kernel that VMware works with does not 
get removed.



Are there any other virtualization tools that would continue to work, 
or at least continue to work with more recent kernels? Is Xen an 
option? Are there others?



Thanks in advance

I completely share your frustration. I run Windows 11 in a VM. I've 
looked into switching in the past but ran into all kinds of license 
issues for Windows and other tools. All the tools think I'm running 
everything on a different system. I tried to explain to Microsoft what I 
was doing -- no luck. Like talking to a brick wall.


I wrote up the patches for kernel 5.18. Check out 
https://medium.com/@allmanpc/vmware-workstation-player-16-2-and-linux-kernels-5-18-5cdc10a4d32a. 
It doesn't fix the larger problem but it would help to get around the 
immediate issue.



*Mark C. Allman, PMP, CSM, SSM*
Sr. Project Manager/Scrum Master, Allman Professional Consulting, Inc., 
www.allmanpc.com 

Founder, See How You Ski, www.seehowyouski.com 
Ultra Runner, www.bostonorbust.run 
617-947-4263, Twitter: @allmanpc, LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/allmanpc 



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Virtualization Recommendations?

2022-07-12 Thread Sbob 

All;


I am frustrated with VMware, I am running Fedora35 and it refuses to 
compile since kernel 5.17.14-200.fc35.x86_64 so I am stuck running a 
kernel 3+ updates behind. At this point I have to exclude the kernel 
from any updates so the only kernel that VMware works with does not get 
removed.



Are there any other virtualization tools that would continue to work, or 
at least continue to work with more recent kernels? Is Xen an option? 
Are there others?



Thanks in advance

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