Re: keyboard failure that doesn't seem to be hardware

[Paul Allen Newell]

On 10/19/2012 10:56 PM, Ed Greshko wrote:

I've not been paying to much attention to this thread recently.

Time to put the "failing" keyboard back on the F17 system to verify the problem 
still exists?



Ed:

Thanks for the reply. Understand that this isn't a problem that has alot 
of bearing for alot of users and I am grateful for what I've gotten from 
the list


I would rather not take another day of repeating the Microsoft Natural 
on F17 ... but you are probably right as POM needs to be excluded it.


Sunday will be that sanity check,
Paul

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Re: keyboard failure that doesn't seem to be hardware

[Ed Greshko]

On 10/20/2012 01:50 PM, Paul Allen Newell wrote:
>> On Mon, 15 Oct 2012 16:20:35 -0700
>> Paul Allen Newell  wrote:
>>
>>
>
> This is getting to be way too much "fun" ...
>
> A different keyboard (the one that came with the HP beast) does not have any 
> failure problems after a couple of days of testing. The original keyboard (a 
> MicroSoft Natural from @2001 ... I am under the impression that it has 
> changed since then?) and the HP keyboard show no failure on a F16 machine.
>
> Looks like I get to bring that F16 machine onto F17 and see if the Microsoft 
> Natural suddenly starts having problems.
>
> Obviously, I am beginning to think that a bug has been introduced into F17 
> that only shows up on my Microsoft Natural keyboard (mind you, I am not 
> assuming that the only two keyboards in the universe are an HP keyboard and 
> an old Microsoft Natural (smile)).
>
> I only post this "status update" in case anyone can see something new (and I 
> am thinking the old Microsoft Natural keyboard ...)
>
>

I've not been paying to much attention to this thread recently.

Time to put the "failing" keyboard back on the F17 system to verify the problem 
still exists?


-- 
Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger 
and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and 
better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning. -- Rick Cook, The Wizardry 
Compiled
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Re: keyboard failure that doesn't seem to be hardware

[Paul Allen Newell]

On Mon, 15 Oct 2012 16:20:35 -0700
Paul Allen Newell  wrote:




This is getting to be way too much "fun" ...

A different keyboard (the one that came with the HP beast) does not have 
any failure problems after a couple of days of testing. The original 
keyboard (a MicroSoft Natural from @2001 ... I am under the impression 
that it has changed since then?) and the HP keyboard show no failure on 
a F16 machine.


Looks like I get to bring that F16 machine onto F17 and see if the 
Microsoft Natural suddenly starts having problems.


Obviously, I am beginning to think that a bug has been introduced into 
F17 that only shows up on my Microsoft Natural keyboard (mind you, I am 
not assuming that the only two keyboards in the universe are an HP 
keyboard and an old Microsoft Natural (smile)).


I only post this "status update" in case anyone can see something new 
(and I am thinking the old Microsoft Natural keyboard ...)


Thanks,
Paul

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Re: keyboard failure that doesn't seem to be hardware

[Bob Marcan]

On Mon, 15 Oct 2012 16:20:35 -0700
Paul Allen Newell  wrote:

> On 10/15/2012 4:00 PM, Bob Marcan wrote:
> > It was occured to me on F16 several times.
> > Killing X restores the keyboard.
> > Reading this thread tried with holding shift key 20+ seconds restores
> > too.
> > It shouldn't be tied to WM, running Fvwm.
> >
> > BR, Bob
> 
> Bob:
> 
> Thanks for reply.
> 
> Should I interpret "Reading this thread tried with holding shift key 20+ 
> seconds restores
> too." means that in your case (F16), this worked? If so, given that my tests 
> with that didn't work, I think I ought to assume its a different issue.
> 
> But the killing X is the same solution (though now that I had the one time it 
> came back after @10-15 minutes I am wondering ...)
> 
> Paul

Yes,  holding shift key 20+ seconds make keyboard alive again.
BR, Bob
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Re: keyboard failure that doesn't seem to be hardware - SOLVED!!! (for me at least)

[Tim]

DJ Delorie:
>> Hey developers!  "hold shift key for 10 seconds" is common in many
>> video games (esp Minecraft).  You can't just change the user's
>> keyboard without warning!

Tim:
> It's also common for typing ALL CAPS words when you don't want to use
> the caps lock key.

Or batch selecting a group of icons on the desktop or file manager.
Or restricting X or Y movement in drawing programs...

I know I've triggered that function, accidentally, quite a few times, on
older Fedora releases.  I've been left with no way to use keyboard, and
no apparent reason why.  At times I've found a requester windows has
popped up asking if I wanted to activate "sticky keys," but the
requester had appeared underneath current windows, and without any
indication that it was there in the window list on the bottom panel of
the Gnome screen.  And until that requester was answered, the keyboard
was unusable.

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Re: keyboard failure that doesn't seem to be hardware - SOLVED!!! (for me at least)

[Paul Allen Newell]

On 10/15/2012 7:00 PM, DJ Delorie wrote:

Paul Johnson  writes:

I am nearly certain this is accidental triggering of SLOW KEYS,

That was EXACTLY it for me.


Glad to hear your situation is solved ... I am certain I'll be able to 
figure mine out and post a "SOLVED" at some point (or at least a "I 
understand what it going on" ...)


Paul
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Re: keyboard failure that doesn't seem to be hardware - SOLVED!!! (for me at least)

[Tim]

On Mon, 2012-10-15 at 22:00 -0400, DJ Delorie wrote:
> Hey developers!  "hold shift key for 10 seconds" is common in many
> video games (esp Minecraft).  You can't just change the user's
> keyboard without warning!

It's also common for typing ALL CAPS words when you don't want to use
the caps lock key.

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Re: keyboard failure that doesn't seem to be hardware - SOLVED!!! (for me at least)

[Gordon Messmer]

On 10/15/2012 07:00 PM, DJ Delorie wrote:


If I find out which program turned that "feature" on, I'm taking it out
back and shooting it.


I wasn't paying attention earlier, so maybe this was already pointed 
out:  Open the Universal Access section of GNOME's settings.  Select the 
Typing tab and uncheck "turn on accessibility features from the keyboard"

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Re: keyboard failure that doesn't seem to be hardware - SOLVED!!! (for me at least)

[DJ Delorie]

Paul Johnson  writes:
> I am nearly certain this is accidental triggering of SLOW KEYS,

That was EXACTLY it for me.  Hey developers!  "hold shift key for 10
seconds" is common in many video games (esp Minecraft).  You can't just
change the user's keyboard without warning!

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=816764

BTW "xkbset -a" worked for me (yum install xkbset) and it's in my
.xsession now.

If I find out which program turned that "feature" on, I'm taking it out
back and shooting it.

Thanks!
DJ
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Re: keyboard failure that doesn't seem to be hardware

[Paul Allen Newell]

On 10/15/2012 4:57 PM, Paul Johnson wrote:





Hi!
I am nearly certain this is accidental triggering of SLOW KEYS , a 
feature to assist the physically impaired. It gets triggered if you 
rest your finger on the shift key for 10 seconds. The kb is not dead, 
but slow. Rest finger in shift 10 seconds again, slow keys turns off. 
 Ways exist to reconfigure, there is a long bug report in the reshot 
bugzilla. I can't send link from this phone,  but you should search . 
You'll find my name );

Pj




Pj:

Thanks for the reply. I have tried all the tests suggested regarding 
slow keys and nothing has come up positive. Multiple times this has 
happened while typing at a speed better than hunt and peck but slower 
than full-on "proper touch typing". I'll check out your suggestion with 
a search, but I am more inclined to believe it is related to X as others 
have suggested.


Paul
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Re: keyboard failure that doesn't seem to be hardware

[Paul Johnson]

On Monday, October 15, 2012, Paul Allen Newell wrote:

> On 10/15/2012 4:01 PM, JD wrote:
>
>>
>> One final, but remote chance - do you have  xorg.conf in /etc/X11 or any
>> of it's sub-dirs?
>> If yes, delete it or rename it, and reboot - it could be the cause by
>> loading wrong KB driver.
>>
>
> JD:
>
> Thanks for reply. I took a look and do not see any xorg.conf. That file
> was always a problem for me in the earlier days when it was necessary and I
> really am hoping I don't have to do one now!
>
> There is a /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/00-**system-setup-keyboard.conf (or
> something to that effect as I am writing from memory given the Fedora box
> is downstairs and I'm on my upstairs box)
>
> I compared the contents to the one on one of my F16 machines and they are
> the same


Hi!
I am nearly certain this is accidental triggering of SLOW KEYS , a feature
to assist the physically impaired. It gets triggered if you rest your
finger on the shift key for 10 seconds. The kb is not dead, but slow. Rest
finger in shift 10 seconds again, slow keys turns off.  Ways exist to
reconfigure, there is a long bug report in the reshot bugzilla. I can't
send link from this phone,  but you should search . You'll find my name );
Pj



> Paul
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Re: keyboard failure that doesn't seem to be hardware

[Paul Allen Newell]

On 10/15/2012 4:01 PM, JD wrote:


One final, but remote chance - do you have  xorg.conf in /etc/X11 or 
any of it's sub-dirs?
If yes, delete it or rename it, and reboot - it could be the cause by 
loading wrong KB driver.


JD:

Thanks for reply. I took a look and do not see any xorg.conf. That file 
was always a problem for me in the earlier days when it was necessary 
and I really am hoping I don't have to do one now!


There is a /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/00-system-setup-keyboard.conf (or 
something to that effect as I am writing from memory given the Fedora 
box is downstairs and I'm on my upstairs box)


I compared the contents to the one on one of my F16 machines and they 
are the same.


Paul
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Re: keyboard failure that doesn't seem to be hardware

[Paul Allen Newell]

On 10/15/2012 4:00 PM, Bob Marcan wrote:

It was occured to me on F16 several times.
Killing X restores the keyboard.
Reading this thread tried with holding shift key 20+ seconds restores
too.
It shouldn't be tied to WM, running Fvwm.

BR, Bob


Bob:

Thanks for reply.

Should I interpret "Reading this thread tried with holding shift key 20+ 
seconds restores
too." means that in your case (F16), this worked? If so, given that my 
tests with that didn't work, I think I ought to assume its a different 
issue.


But the killing X is the same solution (though now that I had the one 
time it came back after @10-15 minutes I am wondering ...)


Paul
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Re: keyboard failure that doesn't seem to be hardware

[JD]

On 10/15/2012 04:46 PM, Paul Allen Newell wrote:

On 10/15/2012 3:43 PM, DJ Delorie wrote:

You could also try an F16 or F18 Live CD and see if the problem is
F17-specific...


Problem has not occurred on FC5, F9, F12, F14, or F16. It is only 
showing up now that I kicked one machine to F17. I will consider 
trying F18 Live once its released and I have eliminated the variables 
of "keyboard hardware" problem or "computer problem"


Thanks,
Paul
One final, but remote chance - do you have  xorg.conf in /etc/X11 or any 
of it's sub-dirs?
If yes, delete it or rename it, and reboot - it could be the cause by 
loading wrong KB driver.

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Re: keyboard failure that doesn't seem to be hardware

[Bob Marcan]

On Mon, 15 Oct 2012 15:46:06 -0700
Paul Allen Newell  wrote:

> On 10/15/2012 3:43 PM, DJ Delorie wrote:
> > You could also try an F16 or F18 Live CD and see if the problem is
> > F17-specific...
> 
> Problem has not occurred on FC5, F9, F12, F14, or F16. It is only showing up 
> now that I kicked one machine to F17. I will consider trying F18 Live once 
> its released and I have eliminated the variables of "keyboard hardware" 
> problem or "computer problem"
> 
> Thanks,
> Paul

It was occured to me on F16 several times.
Killing X restores the keyboard.
Reading this thread tried with holding shift key 20+ seconds restores
too.
It shouldn't be tied to WM, running Fvwm.

BR, Bob
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Re: keyboard failure that doesn't seem to be hardware

[Paul Allen Newell]

On 10/15/2012 3:43 PM, DJ Delorie wrote:

You could also try an F16 or F18 Live CD and see if the problem is
F17-specific...


Problem has not occurred on FC5, F9, F12, F14, or F16. It is only 
showing up now that I kicked one machine to F17. I will consider trying 
F18 Live once its released and I have eliminated the variables of 
"keyboard hardware" problem or "computer problem"


Thanks,
Paul
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Re: keyboard failure that doesn't seem to be hardware

[DJ Delorie]

You could also try an F16 or F18 Live CD and see if the problem is
F17-specific...
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Re: keyboard failure that doesn't seem to be hardware

[Paul Allen Newell]

On 10/15/2012 2:51 PM, DJ Delorie wrote:

I've had PS/2 keyboard problems in F17.  Two things to try:

1. Hold down a key and see if it starts auto-repeating.  In my case, the
first keypress is lost, but auto-repeat keypresses get through.

2. Ctrl-Alt-2 to a text terminal and see if the keyboard works outside
of X.  In my case, it did.

If your keyboard problems act like mine, you have the same problem, and
it's a bug in the X PS/2 keyboard driver.  Killing X resets it, and a
USB keyboard seems to work fine.

DJ:

Many thanks for this reply.

Sitting on a key does nothing per earlier tests.

Your comment about the X PS/2 keyboard driver would fit with the earlier 
advice I got. I've got a couple replies suggesting such.


Right now I am trying another keyboard (PS/2) to confirm that it is not 
a hardware issue. I was planning on bringing up another box under F17, 
but I've got to understand these replies regarding X server first.


Its taking me awhile to get back to this problem and I apologize to all 
if it looks like I've dropped the ball on my end. Plumbing in bathroom 
is taking priority ...


Paul
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Re: keyboard failure that doesn't seem to be hardware

[DJ Delorie]

I've had PS/2 keyboard problems in F17.  Two things to try:

1. Hold down a key and see if it starts auto-repeating.  In my case, the
   first keypress is lost, but auto-repeat keypresses get through.

2. Ctrl-Alt-2 to a text terminal and see if the keyboard works outside
   of X.  In my case, it did.

If your keyboard problems act like mine, you have the same problem, and
it's a bug in the X PS/2 keyboard driver.  Killing X resets it, and a
USB keyboard seems to work fine.
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Re: keyboard failure that doesn't seem to be hardware

[Joe Zeff]

On 10/13/2012 12:24 PM, Paul Allen Newell wrote:


All keyboards and all computers are PS2, so I won't have that variable.
And I am already leaning to the problem being on my end, not F17's, now
that I saw the keyboard "rise from the dead" after 10-15 minutes.


Good!  As you say, that's one less possible issue.  I hadn't known that 
(you may have mentioned it before, but if so, I'd forgotten.)  Depending 
on what this test shows, you might want to get a PS2/USB adapter and see 
if it makes any difference.  Then, if it's the port that's unreliable, 
you don't need to buy a new keyboard.

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Re: keyboard failure that doesn't seem to be hardware

[Paul Allen Newell]

On 10/13/2012 12:20 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:


An excellent idea.  Then, once you find that the new machine works 
fine[1] you can swap keyboards and see if the issue follows the 
keyboard.  Just remember, however, if one of them's PS2 and the 
other's USB, that in itself might be significant.


[1]F17 would never have gotten out of beta with such a big 
show-stopper bug.


Joe:

All keyboards and all computers are PS2, so I won't have that variable. 
And I am already leaning to the problem being on my end, not F17's, now 
that I saw the keyboard "rise from the dead" after 10-15 minutes.


Paul
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Re: keyboard failure that doesn't seem to be hardware

[Joe Zeff]

On 10/13/2012 11:56 AM, Paul Allen Newell wrote:



I'll find out that one when I rotate keyboardsper Ed's suggestion. My
gut doesn't feel like its the keyboard given the problem showed up only
when I installed that machine with F17, but I am suspect of the computer
itself. I'm going to bring a second machine up on F17 to see what happens.


An excellent idea.  Then, once you find that the new machine works 
fine[1] you can swap keyboards and see if the issue follows the 
keyboard.  Just remember, however, if one of them's PS2 and the other's 
USB, that in itself might be significant.


[1]F17 would never have gotten out of beta with such a big show-stopper bug.
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Re: keyboard failure that doesn't seem to be hardware

[Paul Allen Newell]

On 10/13/2012 6:25 AM, Tim wrote:

Does sound suspiciously like a broken keyboard.



Tim:

I'll find out that one when I rotate keyboardsper Ed's suggestion. My 
gut doesn't feel like its the keyboard given the problem showed up only 
when I installed that machine with F17, but I am suspect of the computer 
itself. I'm going to bring a second machine up on F17 to see what happens.


For the record, with the exception of the keyboard, the F17 install was 
one of the easiest "moving to the new Fedoras" I've had (Xfce)


Paul
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Re: keyboard failure that doesn't seem to be hardware

[Tim]

On Fri, 2012-10-12 at 19:26 -0700, Paul Allen Newell wrote:
> somewhere around the 15th minute when I was mousing in one of the dead
> shells to scroll my history to make sure I had got everything, I 
> accidentally brushed a key and, lo and behold, the keyboard was
> alive. 

Does sound suspiciously like a broken keyboard.

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Re: keyboard failure that doesn't seem to be hardware

[Paul Allen Newell]

On 10/10/2012 10:28 PM, Paul Allen Newell wrote:

On 10/10/2012 6:35 PM, Kevin Fenzi wrote:

When this happens, can you try holding down the shift key for say
15-20seconds? Do you see a notice then about 'slow keys' being disabled
and it starts working again?

kevin



Kevin:

[...]

This test will be the first I will try when I start again tomorrow.

Paul



It behaved all day yesterday and I was into my 7th hour today when, 
finally, it happened again. Top shows no cpu hogging (near idle as far 
as I can see) and /var/log/messages doesn't report anything.


I ran your test and sat on the Shift Key for over a minute. No notices.

Figuring that was that, I ssh-ed into the machine to salvage what I was 
doing before killing the session. That took about 20 minutes and, 
somewhere around the 15th minute when I was mousing in one of the dead 
shells to scroll my history to make sure I had got everything, I 
accidentally brushed a key and, lo and behold, the keyboard was alive. 
Everything that had been typed while testing its dead-ness was not 
there, so all the input was not buffered waiting to be processed (as 
though the characters never made it to the computer).


So now I have to consider that "something" (be it hardware or software) 
is causing the keyboard to not exist to the computer for an unknown 
period of time. On one of the earlier tests, I waited about 10 minutes 
before killing and hadn't gotten the keyboard back by then.


I will try Ed's idea of a different keyboard, but I do want to ask if 
this new "experiment result" indicates additional things to consider in 
trying to fix it.


Thanks,
Paul

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Re: keyboard failure that doesn't seem to be hardware

[Paul Allen Newell]

On 10/10/2012 10:44 PM, Paul Allen Newell wrote:
==

The keyboard knows I am getting good help at trying to solve this ... it 
behaved like a champ today. If it doesn't act up through the beginning 
of next week, I will consider that it is a POM issue caused by something 
in my install F17 process that worked itself out.


Once again, thanks to everyone for the suggestions ... I've got them 
ready and waiting when it happens next

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Re: keyboard failure that doesn't seem to be hardware

[Tim]

On Wed, 2012-10-10 at 19:10 -0700, Joe Zeff wrote:
> I was wondering about the PS2 keyboard, but my memory told me that you
> had to reboot if it came unplugged.  Guess that must be 
> Windows-specific.

As far as I know, yes, it was a Windows problem that some couldn't
handle a keyboard being unplugged/replugged.  Though, I recall that was
a problem on the old large 5-pin DIN connected keyboards, not the PS/2
keyboards.  Any Windows PC that I've hot-plugged the PS/2 keyboard,
worked.  Perhaps there was a moment or two of thumb twiddling as Windows
did the dopey hardware detection thing, but it'd work.

However, the PS/2 keyboard system wasn't designed for hot-plugging, and
it was possible to wreck the input circuitry, if the particular
manufacturer hadn't taken into account that users may try hot-plugging.

On top of that, the plugs are notoriously fragile.  Pins got bent and
broken very easily, when people didn't plug them in straight.  And the
usual trick of rotating the plug around trying to line the pins up with
the socket holes, instead of actually using your eyes, was very
destructive to the plug.

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Re: keyboard failure that doesn't seem to be hardware

[Paul Allen Newell]

On 10/10/2012 10:36 PM, Ed Greshko wrote:

OK  I should have pointed out that I am speculating you *may* have a wonky 
wire or connection which results in a momentary disconnect.  I've had several 
of these over they years.  All caused by cats either gnawing on cables or 
ripping them out while playing a game of tag.  :-) :-)


Ed:

Actually, I am speculating that it may be something more interesting. 
4-5 years ago, I got a newer model of my favorite keyboard and it would 
not work with Fedora (either FC5 or F9). I don't have cats to gnaw on 
them and the only tag that get played near the computer is writing html.


The keyboard I like is *old* .. as in 2002. Seeing another keyboard 
behave the same is important.


For what it is worth, the next test will be a serious couple of long 
days on one of my other F16 machines with the keyboard in question. 
Then, I convert that box to F17 and if I see the problem, your sentence 
of X server means alot more to me (or at least in my limited sense of 
vision)


Paul

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Re: keyboard failure that doesn't seem to be hardware

[Paul Allen Newell]

On 10/10/2012 8:20 PM, Frantisek Hanzlik wrote:

It was discused here somtimes about 27.-28.8., You can search 'dead
keyboard' in list archive. It is probably some X server problem.


Frantisek:

Thanks for info. I've found the post and will check it out once I have 
coffee in the morning (my brain turned off about an hour ago)


Paul
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Re: keyboard failure that doesn't seem to be hardware

[Ed Greshko]

On 10/11/2012 01:32 PM, Paul Allen Newell wrote:
> On 10/10/2012 6:43 PM, Ed Greshko wrote:
>> I see.   It has been a long time since I've used a wired PS2 keyboard.   
>> However, when I had a RHELv4 system with a wired PS2 keyboard I noticed that 
>> the keyboard would become non-responsive if it were unplugged/plugged.  The 
>> X server would lose connection to it and would not re-establish a connection 
>> until a logout (which restarts the X server).
>>
>> Frankly, the first thing I would do is find another keyboard and see if that 
>> helps.  I may be unique in that I've got an old keyboard on the shelf for 
>> emergencies.  :-) :-)
>>
>
> Ed:
>
> I've only seen the problem under circumstances when there has been no 
> unplug/plug, but your information that X server would not re-establish a 
> connection until logout fits what I am seeing.
>
> I've got a couple old keyboards (actually, the one I am using is an old 
> keyboard, too).
>
> Once I try Kevin's suggestion of holding down the shift for 15-20 seconds, I 
> will swap out keyboards and use the one that came with the machine (HP)
>

OK  I should have pointed out that I am speculating you *may* have a wonky 
wire or connection which results in a momentary disconnect.  I've had several 
of these over they years.  All caused by cats either gnawing on cables or 
ripping them out while playing a game of tag.  :-) :-)

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Re: keyboard failure that doesn't seem to be hardware

[Paul Allen Newell]

On 10/10/2012 7:30 PM, Geoffrey Leach wrote:

This would appear to be an instance of a fairly well documented
problem. Bugzilla # 816764. If holding down the shift key does not
work, try toggling Slow Keys in Settings->Accessibility. I've found
that toggle followed by the shift key usually works. But, alas, YMMV.


Geoffrey:

As soon as I can get a failure, this is the first test. I think the 
issue knows I am getting help on trying to figure it out as it decided 
to "play nice" the rest of the evening (smile)


Paul

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Re: keyboard failure that doesn't seem to be hardware

[Paul Allen Newell]

On 10/10/2012 6:43 PM, Ed Greshko wrote:

I see.   It has been a long time since I've used a wired PS2 keyboard.   
However, when I had a RHELv4 system with a wired PS2 keyboard I noticed that 
the keyboard would become non-responsive if it were unplugged/plugged.  The X 
server would lose connection to it and would not re-establish a connection 
until a logout (which restarts the X server).

Frankly, the first thing I would do is find another keyboard and see if that 
helps.  I may be unique in that I've got an old keyboard on the shelf for 
emergencies.  :-) :-)



Ed:

I've only seen the problem under circumstances when there has been no 
unplug/plug, but your information that X server would not re-establish a 
connection until logout fits what I am seeing.


I've got a couple old keyboards (actually, the one I am using is an old 
keyboard, too).


Once I try Kevin's suggestion of holding down the shift for 15-20 
seconds, I will swap out keyboards and use the one that came with the 
machine (HP)


Thanks,
Paul
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Re: keyboard failure that doesn't seem to be hardware

[Paul Allen Newell]

On 10/10/2012 6:35 PM, Kevin Fenzi wrote:

When this happens, can you try holding down the shift key for say
15-20seconds? Do you see a notice then about 'slow keys' being disabled
and it starts working again?

kevin



Kevin:

Of course, it decided to work for a long time so I was unable to try it 
(plus I had to vanish for a bit this evening).


This test will be the first I will try when I start again tomorrow.

Paul

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Re: keyboard failure that doesn't seem to be hardware

[Kevin Fenzi]

On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 19:30:28 -0700
Geoffrey Leach  wrote:

> On 10/10/2012 06:35:58 PM, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
> > On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 18:05:07 -0700
> > Paul Allen Newell  wrote:
> > 
> > > Given the fact that I was able to type once I selected New login
> > > on the "locked screen" dialog and, at the splash for which user
> > > to log in as, the keyboard works, I figured the keyboard was not
> > > the
> > problem.
> > 
> > When this happens, can you try holding down the shift key for say
> > 15-20seconds? Do you see a notice then about 'slow keys' being
> > disabled
> > and it starts working again?
> 
> This would appear to be an instance of a fairly well documented 
> problem. Bugzilla # 816764. If holding down the shift key does not 
> work, try toggling Slow Keys in Settings->Accessibility. I've found 
> that toggle followed by the shift key usually works. But, alas, YMMV.

Well, thats what I was trying to determine yes... we will have to wait
for the orig reporter to reply to see if this is really the case. ;) 

kevin




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Re: keyboard failure that doesn't seem to be hardware

[Frantisek Hanzlik]

Joe Zeff wrote:
> On 10/10/2012 06:43 PM, Ed Greshko wrote:
>> I see.   It has been a long time since I've used a wired PS2
>> keyboard.   However, when I had a RHELv4 system with a wired PS2
>> keyboard I noticed that the keyboard would become non-responsive if it
>> were unplugged/plugged.  The X server would lose connection to it and
>> would not re-establish a connection until a logout (which restarts the
>> X server).
> 
> Interesting.  I was wondering about the PS2 keyboard, but my memory told
> me that you had to reboot if it came unplugged.  Guess that must be
> Windows-specific.

It was discused here somtimes about 27.-28.8., You can search 'dead
keyboard' in list archive. It is probably some X server problem.

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Re: keyboard failure that doesn't seem to be hardware

[Geoffrey Leach]

On 10/10/2012 06:35:58 PM, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 18:05:07 -0700
> Paul Allen Newell  wrote:
> 
> > Given the fact that I was able to type once I selected New login on
> > the "locked screen" dialog and, at the splash for which user to log
> > in as, the keyboard works, I figured the keyboard was not the
> problem.
> 
> When this happens, can you try holding down the shift key for say
> 15-20seconds? Do you see a notice then about 'slow keys' being
> disabled
> and it starts working again?

This would appear to be an instance of a fairly well documented 
problem. Bugzilla # 816764. If holding down the shift key does not 
work, try toggling Slow Keys in Settings->Accessibility. I've found 
that toggle followed by the shift key usually works. But, alas, YMMV.


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Re: keyboard failure that doesn't seem to be hardware

[Joe Zeff]

On 10/10/2012 06:43 PM, Ed Greshko wrote:

I see.   It has been a long time since I've used a wired PS2 keyboard.   
However, when I had a RHELv4 system with a wired PS2 keyboard I noticed that 
the keyboard would become non-responsive if it were unplugged/plugged.  The X 
server would lose connection to it and would not re-establish a connection 
until a logout (which restarts the X server).


Interesting.  I was wondering about the PS2 keyboard, but my memory told 
me that you had to reboot if it came unplugged.  Guess that must be 
Windows-specific.

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Re: keyboard failure that doesn't seem to be hardware

[Ed Greshko]

On 10/11/2012 09:05 AM, Paul Allen Newell wrote:
> PS2, wired.
>
> Given the fact that I was able to type once I selected New login on the 
> "locked screen" dialog and, at the splash for which user to log in as, the 
> keyboard works, I figured the keyboard was not the problem. 

I see.   It has been a long time since I've used a wired PS2 keyboard.   
However, when I had a RHELv4 system with a wired PS2 keyboard I noticed that 
the keyboard would become non-responsive if it were unplugged/plugged.  The X 
server would lose connection to it and would not re-establish a connection 
until a logout (which restarts the X server). 

Frankly, the first thing I would do is find another keyboard and see if that 
helps.  I may be unique in that I've got an old keyboard on the shelf for 
emergencies.  :-) :-)

-- 
Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger 
and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and 
better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning. -- Rick Cook, The Wizardry 
Compiled
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Re: keyboard failure that doesn't seem to be hardware

[Kevin Fenzi]

On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 18:05:07 -0700
Paul Allen Newell  wrote:

> Given the fact that I was able to type once I selected New login on
> the "locked screen" dialog and, at the splash for which user to log
> in as, the keyboard works, I figured the keyboard was not the problem.

When this happens, can you try holding down the shift key for say
15-20seconds? Do you see a notice then about 'slow keys' being disabled
and it starts working again?

kevin


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Re: keyboard failure that doesn't seem to be hardware

[Paul Allen Newell]

On 10/10/2012 05:58 PM, Paul Allen Newell wrote:
 I just realized that I haven't tried using the logout dialog to kill 
that user and then seeing if I can come back in fresh ... next test 
when the failure happens


Paul


Just died again and I was able to try this

Using logout dialog to end the session, it allowed me to come back as a 
new user and keyboard was working. Remembered my layout from when I 
logged out (little good that does me)


Paul

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Re: keyboard failure that doesn't seem to be hardware

[Joe Zeff]

On 10/10/2012 05:58 PM, Paul Allen Newell wrote:


I ran that test earlier but saw pretty much no cpu activity so I didn't
get the sense I was pegging out at 100%. Forgot to mention in my
original email, sorry


That's OK.  If nothing else, we've eliminated a possibility.
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Re: keyboard failure that doesn't seem to be hardware

[Paul Allen Newell]

On 10/10/2012 05:58 PM, Ed Greshko wrote:


You fail to mention what type of keyboard you have.  PS2, USB, Wireless USB, 
Bluetooth?

I have a Wireless USB that becomes non-responsive from time to time.  
Unplug/plug receiver clears the problem.




Ed:

Thanks for response

PS2, wired.

Given the fact that I was able to type once I selected New login on the 
"locked screen" dialog and, at the splash for which user to log in as, 
the keyboard works, I figured the keyboard was not the problem.


Paul

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Re: keyboard failure that doesn't seem to be hardware

[Paul Allen Newell]

On 10/10/2012 05:53 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:

On 10/10/2012 05:43 PM, Paul Allen Newell wrote:

Any ideas about where to start? Everything I spotted online didn't seem
to relate ... and I am having a hard time figuring out what a good set
of search terms for this problem is.


Try opening a terminal and running top in it.  Then, when this happens 
you can look at the terminal and see if something's hogging the cpu.

Joe:

Thanks for prompt reply.

I ran that test earlier but saw pretty much no cpu activity so I didn't 
get the sense I was pegging out at 100%. Forgot to mention in my 
original email, sorry


The mouse and its buttons are totally responsive during this time ... 
its just the keyboard. I even tried unplugging and plugging back in.


I can ssh into the machine from another box and have no problems after 
the keyboard has locked up for the keyboard of that machine. This has 
become my "fallback" so I can try to get things stable before I restart 
the system. I just realized that I haven't tried using the logout dialog 
to kill that user and then seeing if I can come back in fresh ... next 
test when the failure happens


Paul

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Re: keyboard failure that doesn't seem to be hardware

[Ed Greshko]

On 10/11/2012 08:43 AM, Paul Allen Newell wrote:
> Hello:
>
> I am doing my first F17 install on i686 Xfce and, for the most part, 
> everything is coming up nicely. However, I am noticing that sometimes the 
> keyboard becomes unresponsive. I can't seem to find a reason, it just 
> happens. My first sense was that it was a hardware problem.
>
> However, one time I decided to let the session time out so that when I had 
> moved the mouse, I got the "re-enter passwd" dialog box to get back to my 
> session. As could be expected, I couldn't type my password in. So I tried 
> selecting new user login and, lo and behold, if I clicked on myself, it let 
> me enter a password. However, it then immediately went back to the "re-enter 
> passwd" from the session time out and the keyboard was dead.
>
> Net result is I find it hard to believe that the hardware is the problem. But 
> I can't figure out what would be locking up the keyboard so that it would 
> appear dead. I also note that I had multiple windows open plus firefox and 
> the keyboard wouldn't work in any of them, so it isn't shell based. One time 
> I ran a tail of /var/log/messages and nothing showed up in it once the 
> keyboard died and it did give me other standard messages when I waited about 
> a half hour to new messages to be flushed to the file.
>
> Any ideas about where to start? Everything I spotted online didn't seem to 
> relate ... and I am having a hard time figuring out what a good set of search 
> terms for this problem is.
>

You fail to mention what type of keyboard you have.  PS2, USB, Wireless USB, 
Bluetooth?

I have a Wireless USB that becomes non-responsive from time to time.  
Unplug/plug receiver clears the problem.


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Re: keyboard failure that doesn't seem to be hardware

[Joe Zeff]

On 10/10/2012 05:43 PM, Paul Allen Newell wrote:

Any ideas about where to start? Everything I spotted online didn't seem
to relate ... and I am having a hard time figuring out what a good set
of search terms for this problem is.


Try opening a terminal and running top in it.  Then, when this happens 
you can look at the terminal and see if something's hogging the cpu.

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keyboard failure that doesn't seem to be hardware

[Paul Allen Newell]

Hello:

I am doing my first F17 install on i686 Xfce and, for the most part, 
everything is coming up nicely. However, I am noticing that sometimes 
the keyboard becomes unresponsive. I can't seem to find a reason, it 
just happens. My first sense was that it was a hardware problem.


However, one time I decided to let the session time out so that when I 
had moved the mouse, I got the "re-enter passwd" dialog box to get back 
to my session. As could be expected, I couldn't type my password in. So 
I tried selecting new user login and, lo and behold, if I clicked on 
myself, it let me enter a password. However, it then immediately went 
back to the "re-enter passwd" from the session time out and the keyboard 
was dead.


Net result is I find it hard to believe that the hardware is the 
problem. But I can't figure out what would be locking up the keyboard so 
that it would appear dead. I also note that I had multiple windows open 
plus firefox and the keyboard wouldn't work in any of them, so it isn't 
shell based. One time I ran a tail of /var/log/messages and nothing 
showed up in it once the keyboard died and it did give me other standard 
messages when I waited about a half hour to new messages to be flushed 
to the file.


Any ideas about where to start? Everything I spotted online didn't seem 
to relate ... and I am having a hard time figuring out what a good set 
of search terms for this problem is.


Thanks in advance,
Paul
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