Re: python3dist(sphinx-math-dollar)

[George N. White III]

On Sun, 23 Jan 2022 at 11:44, Tim via users 
wrote:

> [...]
> I can't fathom how anybody could be a computer user and have no
> experience with using a CLI.  It's staggering that there are computer
> users who've never written a program before (and the idea of non-
> computer nerds wanting to use computers is odd, too).  When I was
> young, we had no OS (beyond a disc loader), we had to create our own
> programs (usually on pen and paper, first).  And I find it impossible
> to believe the idea that someone could create software solely using
> GUI.
>

This is called "culture clash".  There is a lot of going around.  I grew up
in
a small town with the cultural variety of New York City but too few of any
group outside the indigenous locals to make it possible for anyone to avoid
daily contact with multiple other cultures.   Auto repair shops, for
example,
were mostly owned by Eastern Europeans but often had to hire and train
locals whose only experience was with horse drawn wagons, etc.  We all
learned to laugh about cultural differences when they came up.

Before retiring I tried to help some colleagues get started on Python using
"Learn Python the Hard Way" but they all gave up after a few lessons
and went back to Excel (it didn't help that IT had the attitude: "they can
do it all in Excel").

Now I work with big GUI systems from ESA and NASA that allow many
users to do their work without meeting a command-line, but the systems
are far from robust and as soon as something breaks, command-line
tools are required to sort them out.

-- 
George N. White III
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Re: python3dist(sphinx-math-dollar)

[Jonathan Billings]

On Jan 23, 2022, at 08:17, Dorian ROSSE  wrote:
> 
> Every time I miss a program python because I use the most Ubuntu instead 
> fedora I use 'pip3 install theprogrampython '
> 
> But I don't understand how to become more tough dnf,

Well, you are doing it in a way that will break your OS, eventually. It’s not a 
question of DNF becoming “tougher”. You are suggesting people use two different 
package managers, simultaneously, and neither knows about the other.

 Imagine hiring two builders to install a new furnace in a house, and not 
telling them about the other. You’d end up with two confused builders and a 
broken furnace. 

If you want to use pip as root and can’t be bothered to use virtual 
environments, install python outside of DNF, either from source into /usr/local 
or /opt, or use something like “conda”, which has its own prefix. Then, at 
least if it breaks something, it won’t prevent you from updating your OS. 

FWIW, in Centos 8 stream, DNF uses a python that isn’t installed as 
/usr/bin/python so it is less likely for ignorant people to break, although 
I’ve discovered that Ansible *does* find it and will happy install python 
modules in it and break things. 

--
Jonathan Billings___
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Re: python3dist(sphinx-math-dollar)

[Tim via users]

On Sat, 2022-01-22 at 09:32 -0400, George N. White III wrote:
> One of the "mission critical" packages has a "private" module called
> snappy, but a widely used Google compression package also called
> snappy has been installed on many systems.

I'm surprised this sort of thing (two different programs using the same
name) doesn't happen a lot more often.

With an environment under some kind of distribution control (Fedora and
its RPM repos), you could expect that to be managed (first in best
dressed, second person has to choose a different name).  Though there's
no one answer for how to deal with this across multiple distros.

And when you run a installed system with programs acquired from various
different sources you can't do that, either.  There's no one entity in
control.

> Envs are, however, problematic for the group of users who have never
> used a command-liine before.   They are often puzzled why their GUI
> tool doesn't find the package they just installed to a Python env.  

I can't fathom how anybody could be a computer user and have no
experience with using a CLI.  It's staggering that there are computer
users who've never written a program before (and the idea of non-
computer nerds wanting to use computers is odd, too).  When I was
young, we had no OS (beyond a disc loader), we had to create our own
programs (usually on pen and paper, first).  And I find it impossible
to believe the idea that someone could create software solely using
GUI.

 
-- 
 
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Re: python3dist(sphinx-math-dollar)

[James Szinger]

On Sat, 22 Jan 2022 07:48:47 -0500
Jonathan Billings  wrote:

> On Jan 22, 2022, at 06:35, Dorian ROSSE 
> wrote:
> > 
> > Have you tried 'pip3 install python3dist ' ?  
> 
> I never suggest Fedora users run ‘pip’ as root, except when in a
> virtualenv, dockerfile or some contained environment. 
> 
> It is far too easy for pip to overwrite or override a packaged python
> library and break system tools, such as the ones used in DNF. Once
> you’ve broken dnf, it is hard to fix those libraries since dnf is the
> tool to fix them. 

ObXKCD: 

But seriously, I used to use the cpan command to install missing Perl
modules.  That led to many interesting problems, especially after
system updates.  I now build my own RPMs (cpanspec is great).  The has
many advantages: the same software is available on many computers,
system and package updates are easy, and the spec file documents how
thee software was built.  The current Fedora packaging tooling also
makes it easy to build Python packages as RPMs.


It would be great if the Fedora project were to emphasize the
advantages to sysadmins and developers of build their own RPMs.

Jim
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Re: python3dist(sphinx-math-dollar)

[Dorian ROSSE]

Every time I miss a program python because I use the most Ubuntu instead fedora 
I use 'pip3 install theprogrampython '

But I don't understand how to become more tough dnf,

Regards.


Dorian Rosse.

From: Tim via users 
Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2022 1:59:21 PM
To: users@lists.fedoraproject.org 
Cc: Tim 
Subject: Re: python3dist(sphinx-math-dollar)

On Sun, 2022-01-23 at 11:24 +, Dorian ROSSE wrote:
> dnf has need to become tough because pip and pip3 are the packager
> the most used by all import,

Little sir echo how do you do?

--

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Re: python3dist(sphinx-math-dollar)

[Tim via users]

On Sun, 2022-01-23 at 11:24 +, Dorian ROSSE wrote:
> dnf has need to become tough because pip and pip3 are the packager
> the most used by all import,

Little sir echo how do you do?

-- 
 
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Re: python3dist(sphinx-math-dollar)

[Dorian ROSSE]

dnf has need to become tough because pip and pip3 are the packager the most 
used by all import,

Regards.


Dorian Rosse.

From: Dorian ROSSE 
Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2022 12:23:19 PM
To: Community support for Fedora users 
Subject: Re: python3dist(sphinx-math-dollar)

dnf need to become tough because pip and pip3 are the packager the most used by 
all import,

Regards.


Dorian Rosse.

From: Dorian ROSSE 
Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2022 12:18:21 PM
To: Community support for Fedora users 
Subject: Re: python3dist(sphinx-math-dollar)

dnf need to become tough because pip and pip3 are the mostly packager used by 
all import,

Regards.


Dorian Rosse.

From: George N. White III 
Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2022 2:32:45 PM
To: Community support for Fedora users 
Subject: Re: python3dist(sphinx-math-dollar)

On Sat, 22 Jan 2022 at 08:49, Jonathan Billings 
mailto:billi...@negate.org>> wrote:
On Jan 22, 2022, at 06:35, Dorian ROSSE 
mailto:dorianbr...@hotmail.fr>> wrote:
>
> Have you tried 'pip3 install python3dist ' ?

I never suggest Fedora users run ‘pip’ as root, except when in a virtualenv, 
dockerfile or some contained environment.


It is far too easy for pip to overwrite or override a packaged python library 
and break system tools, such as the ones used in DNF. Once you’ve broken dnf, 
it is hard to fix those libraries since dnf is the tool to fix them.

I agree.   One of the "mission critical" packages has a "private" module called 
snappy, but
a widely used Google compression package also called snappy has been installed 
on many
systems.   Envs are, however, problematic for the group of users who have never 
used a
command-liine before.   They are often puzzled why their GUI tool doesn't find 
the package they just
installed to a Python env.

--
George N. White III

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Re: python3dist(sphinx-math-dollar)

[Dorian ROSSE]

dnf need to become tough because pip and pip3 are the packager the most used by 
all import,

Regards.


Dorian Rosse.

From: Dorian ROSSE 
Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2022 12:18:21 PM
To: Community support for Fedora users 
Subject: Re: python3dist(sphinx-math-dollar)

dnf need to become tough because pip and pip3 are the mostly packager used by 
all import,

Regards.


Dorian Rosse.

From: George N. White III 
Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2022 2:32:45 PM
To: Community support for Fedora users 
Subject: Re: python3dist(sphinx-math-dollar)

On Sat, 22 Jan 2022 at 08:49, Jonathan Billings 
mailto:billi...@negate.org>> wrote:
On Jan 22, 2022, at 06:35, Dorian ROSSE 
mailto:dorianbr...@hotmail.fr>> wrote:
>
> Have you tried 'pip3 install python3dist ' ?

I never suggest Fedora users run ‘pip’ as root, except when in a virtualenv, 
dockerfile or some contained environment.


It is far too easy for pip to overwrite or override a packaged python library 
and break system tools, such as the ones used in DNF. Once you’ve broken dnf, 
it is hard to fix those libraries since dnf is the tool to fix them.

I agree.   One of the "mission critical" packages has a "private" module called 
snappy, but
a widely used Google compression package also called snappy has been installed 
on many
systems.   Envs are, however, problematic for the group of users who have never 
used a
command-liine before.   They are often puzzled why their GUI tool doesn't find 
the package they just
installed to a Python env.

--
George N. White III

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Re: python3dist(sphinx-math-dollar)

[Dorian ROSSE]

dnf need to become tough because pip and pip3 are the mostly packager used by 
all import,

Regards.


Dorian Rosse.

From: George N. White III 
Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2022 2:32:45 PM
To: Community support for Fedora users 
Subject: Re: python3dist(sphinx-math-dollar)

On Sat, 22 Jan 2022 at 08:49, Jonathan Billings 
mailto:billi...@negate.org>> wrote:
On Jan 22, 2022, at 06:35, Dorian ROSSE 
mailto:dorianbr...@hotmail.fr>> wrote:
>
> Have you tried 'pip3 install python3dist ' ?

I never suggest Fedora users run ‘pip’ as root, except when in a virtualenv, 
dockerfile or some contained environment.


It is far too easy for pip to overwrite or override a packaged python library 
and break system tools, such as the ones used in DNF. Once you’ve broken dnf, 
it is hard to fix those libraries since dnf is the tool to fix them.

I agree.   One of the "mission critical" packages has a "private" module called 
snappy, but
a widely used Google compression package also called snappy has been installed 
on many
systems.   Envs are, however, problematic for the group of users who have never 
used a
command-liine before.   They are often puzzled why their GUI tool doesn't find 
the package they just
installed to a Python env.

--
George N. White III

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Re: python3dist(sphinx-math-dollar)

[George N. White III]

On Sat, 22 Jan 2022 at 08:49, Jonathan Billings  wrote:

> On Jan 22, 2022, at 06:35, Dorian ROSSE  wrote:
> >
> > Have you tried 'pip3 install python3dist ' ?
>
> I never suggest Fedora users run ‘pip’ as root, except when in a
> virtualenv, dockerfile or some contained environment.


>
> It is far too easy for pip to overwrite or override a packaged python
> library and break system tools, such as the ones used in DNF. Once you’ve
> broken dnf, it is hard to fix those libraries since dnf is the tool to fix
> them.


I agree.   One of the "mission critical" packages has a "private" module
called snappy, but
a widely used Google compression package also called snappy has been
installed on many
systems.   Envs are, however, problematic for the group of users who have
never used a
command-liine before.   They are often puzzled why their GUI tool doesn't
find the package they just
installed to a Python env.

-- 
George N. White III
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Re: python3dist(sphinx-math-dollar)

[Jonathan Billings]

On Jan 22, 2022, at 06:35, Dorian ROSSE  wrote:
> 
> Have you tried 'pip3 install python3dist ' ?

I never suggest Fedora users run ‘pip’ as root, except when in a virtualenv, 
dockerfile or some contained environment. 

It is far too easy for pip to overwrite or override a packaged python library 
and break system tools, such as the ones used in DNF. Once you’ve broken dnf, 
it is hard to fix those libraries since dnf is the tool to fix them. 

--
Jonathan Billings
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Re: python3dist(sphinx-math-dollar)

[Dorian ROSSE]

Hello everybody,


Have you tried 'pip3 install python3dist ' ?

Regards.


Dorian Rosse.


De : Samuel Sieb 
Envoyé : samedi 22 janvier 2022 à 09:44
À : users@lists.fedoraproject.org
Objet : Re: python3dist(sphinx-math-dollar)

On 1/22/22 00:39, José Abílio Matos wrote:
> On Friday, 21 January 2022 18.34.17 WET Patrick Dupre wrote:
>  > How can I get
>
>  > python3dist(sphinx-math-dollar)
>
>  > python3dist(wurlitzer)
>
> Hi Patrick,
>
>repoquery is your friend. :-)
>
>
> # repoquery --whatprovides 'python3dist(wurlitzer)'

Even simpler, you can directly install it:
dnf install 'python3dist(wurlitzer)'
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Re: python3dist(sphinx-math-dollar)

[Patrick Dupre]

Thanks

===
 Patrick DUPRÉ | | email: pdu...@gmx.com
 Laboratoire interdisciplinaire Carnot de Bourgogne
 9 Avenue Alain Savary, BP 47870, 21078 DIJON Cedex FRANCE
 Tel: +33 (0)380395988| | Room# D114A
===


> Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2022 at 9:43 AM
> From: "Samuel Sieb" 
> To: users@lists.fedoraproject.org
> Subject: Re: python3dist(sphinx-math-dollar)
>
> On 1/22/22 00:39, José Abílio Matos wrote:
> > On Friday, 21 January 2022 18.34.17 WET Patrick Dupre wrote:
> >  > How can I get
> > 
> >  > python3dist(sphinx-math-dollar)
> > 
> >  > python3dist(wurlitzer)
> > 
> > Hi Patrick,
> > 
> >    repoquery is your friend. :-)
> > 
> > 
> > # repoquery --whatprovides 'python3dist(wurlitzer)'
> 
> Even simpler, you can directly install it:
> dnf install 'python3dist(wurlitzer)'
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Re: python3dist(sphinx-math-dollar)

[Samuel Sieb]

On 1/22/22 00:39, José Abílio Matos wrote:

On Friday, 21 January 2022 18.34.17 WET Patrick Dupre wrote:
 > How can I get

 >     python3dist(sphinx-math-dollar)

 > python3dist(wurlitzer)

Hi Patrick,

   repoquery is your friend. :-)


# repoquery --whatprovides 'python3dist(wurlitzer)'


Even simpler, you can directly install it:
dnf install 'python3dist(wurlitzer)'
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Re: python3dist(sphinx-math-dollar)

[José Abílio Matos]

On Friday, 21 January 2022 18.34.17 WET Patrick Dupre wrote:
> ello,
> 
> How can I get
> python3dist(sphinx-math-dollar)
> python3dist(wurlitzer)
> ?
> 
> Thanks

Hi Patrick,
  repoquery is your friend. :-)

# repoquery --whatprovides 'python3dist(wurlitzer)'
Last metadata expiration check: 1:00:21 ago on Sat 22 Jan 2022 07:32:37 AM WET
python3-wurlitzer-0:1.0.3-8.fc35.noarch

# repoquery --whatprovides 'python3dist(sphinx-math-dollar)'
Last metadata expiration check: 1:03:31 ago on Sat 22 Jan 2022 07:32:37 AM WET
python3-sphinx-math-dollar-0:1.2-4.fc35.noarch

Repoquery uses the dnf mechanism and so the usual options can be used. As an 
example sometimes I need to see what packages provides a dependency in 
Rawhide:

# repoquery --disablerepo=* --enablerepo=rawhide --whatprovides 
'python3dist(sphinx-math-dollar)'
Last metadata expiration check: 0:07:43 ago on Sat 22 Jan 2022 08:31:15 AM WET
python3-sphinx-math-dollar-0:1.2-5.fc36.noarch

I hope that this helps. :-)
-- 
José Matos___
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python3dist(sphinx-math-dollar)

[Patrick Dupre]

Hello,

How can I get
python3dist(sphinx-math-dollar) 
python3dist(wurlitzer) 
?

Thanks

===
 Patrick DUPRÉ | | email: pdu...@gmx.com
 Laboratoire interdisciplinaire Carnot de Bourgogne
 9 Avenue Alain Savary, BP 47870, 21078 DIJON Cedex FRANCE
 Tel: +33 (0)380395988| | Room# D114A
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