Re: system response issue
double oops. my thinking and typing were out of sync. On 07/13/15 23:16, g wrote: On 07/13/15 21:54, jd1008 wrote: On 07/13/2015 08:43 PM, g wrote: ok. you have now thrown in *pipe* and process *un-tar*. are you using tar to pass files to target and have them end up as separate files, or as a single archive file? ria, all i see in your original post is tar -C /sdc1 -xpvf which would indicate archiving to a single file. oops. -x = extract. just what is your actual command line? tar cf - BigDirArchive | tar -C /sdc1 -xpvf - should have read: ok. that does make for better understanding. as a suggestion; i stopped using tar years ago in favor of cpio, which has more advantages, when i was using tape for archiving. works well with usb memory and usb hdd drives. in fact, when i archive paths between hdd partitions or drives, i use cpio instead of cp -R. to perform same using cpio, command line would be; find path2BigDirArchive -depth -print0 | sort | cpio -p -adm /sdc1 or find . -depth -print0 | sort | cpio -p -adm /sdc1 in above, -p is 'copy-pass mode', equivalent to | and -x in tar. because you are having response time issues with usb, i believe you will find cpio to be more favorable than using tar. -- peace out. -+- If Bill Gates got a dime for every time Windows crashes... ...oh, wait. He does. THAT explains it! -+- in a world with out fences, who needs gates. -+- CentOS GNU/Linux 6.6 tc,hago. g . -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: system response issue
On 14/07/15 07:42, jd1008 wrote: On 07/13/2015 03:13 PM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: On Mon, 2015-07-13 at 13:50 -0600, jd1008 wrote: I started a tar command from one external eSATA drive (ext4), connected to eSATA port, out to a USB flash drive (with vfat). The USB stick is touted to support 50MB/s write, 160MB/s read. Have you actually measured its real write speed for large files? Try something like: time dd if=/dev/zero of=/the/usb/drive count=1000 bs=1M You might be surprised. poc As I just replied with the actual read/write performance data on this USB 3.0 SUperTalentExpress Drive (256GB), I am much more surprised by the fact that while tarring a large dir to it from a fast eSATA drive, the system becomes nearly unusable!!! So, if this shtick is so slow, why is writing to it killing the response time for everything else? I see the same sort of issue (F21, cinnamon desktop). If the disk write or read is getting backed up with a queue of info, then that should mean the desktop UI is more responsive, since the CPU is idle. But it doesn't seem to work that way. It quite often seems to be waiting on a large disk IO to complete. On mine, possibly having once connected to a windows7 machine and copied a mpg file from it to mine, but leaving the nemo window open might be a trigger. And an hour after boot, the prelink operation runs (again, should be set for tinniest priority, and rest of OS should be normal especially given / is on an SSD (with modified time writing disabled). Love to hear some things to try... -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: system response issue
On 07/14/2015 06:13 AM, David Timms wrote: On 14/07/15 07:42, jd1008 wrote: On 07/13/2015 03:13 PM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: On Mon, 2015-07-13 at 13:50 -0600, jd1008 wrote: I started a tar command from one external eSATA drive (ext4), connected to eSATA port, out to a USB flash drive (with vfat). The USB stick is touted to support 50MB/s write, 160MB/s read. Have you actually measured its real write speed for large files? Try something like: time dd if=/dev/zero of=/the/usb/drive count=1000 bs=1M You might be surprised. poc As I just replied with the actual read/write performance data on this USB 3.0 SUperTalentExpress Drive (256GB), I am much more surprised by the fact that while tarring a large dir to it from a fast eSATA drive, the system becomes nearly unusable!!! So, if this shtick is so slow, why is writing to it killing the response time for everything else? I see the same sort of issue (F21, cinnamon desktop). If the disk write or read is getting backed up with a queue of info, then that should mean the desktop UI is more responsive, since the CPU is idle. But it doesn't seem to work that way. It quite often seems to be waiting on a large disk IO to complete. On mine, possibly having once connected to a windows7 machine and copied a mpg file from it to mine, but leaving the nemo window open might be a trigger. And an hour after boot, the prelink operation runs (again, should be set for tinniest priority, and rest of OS should be normal especially given / is on an SSD (with modified time writing disabled). Love to hear some things to try... I wish I knew ... I find that the desktop kernel and scheduler are tuned more to server operations where FS buffers for all the threads are given priority as the desktop is either non-existent or not in operatio. memory is used mostly for these buffers (aka pagecache). -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: system response issue
On 07/13/2015 08:43 PM, g wrote: On 07/13/15 21:17, jd1008 wrote: On 07/13/2015 06:52 PM, g wrote: more for thought, is tar building finale file in memory, /tmp, or on the usb3 drive? :) Well, since I was using a pipe, I assume swap backed memory is used. However, the un-tar process is running in parallel, so the RAM pipe is shared between the producer tar and the consumer tar, which populates the destination directory with the contents of the source directory. That said, I do not think that the entirety of the source dir is first copied to the pipe, before it is then consumed by the untar process. I think the RAM pipe is being read (emptied), as the producer fills it (using thread synchronization primitives). Just my guess. I have not looked at tar's source code. ok. you have now thrown in *pipe* and process *un-tar*. are you using tar to pass files to target and have them end up as separate files, or as a single archive file? ria, all i see in your original post is tar -C /sdc1 -xpvf which would indicate archiving to a single file. just what is your actual command line? tar cf - BigDirArchive | tar -C /sdc1 -xpvf - -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: system response issue
On 07/13/15 21:54, jd1008 wrote: On 07/13/2015 08:43 PM, g wrote: ok. you have now thrown in *pipe* and process *un-tar*. are you using tar to pass files to target and have them end up as separate files, or as a single archive file? ria, all i see in your original post is tar -C /sdc1 -xpvf which would indicate archiving to a single file. oops. -x = extract. just what is your actual command line? tar cf - BigDirArchive | tar -C /sdc1 -xpvf - ok. that does make for better understanding. i stopped using tar years ago in favor of cpio, which has more advantages, when i was using tape for archiving. works well with usb memory and usb hdd drives. in fact, when i archive paths between hdd partitions or drives, i use cpio instead of cp -R. to perform same using cpio, command line would be; find path2BigDirArchive -depth -print0 | sort | cpio -p -adm /sdc1 or find . -depth -print0 | sort | cpio -p -adm /sdc1 in above, -p is 'copy-pass mode', equivalent to | and -x in tar. because you are having response time issues with usb, i believe you will find cpio to be more favorable than using tar. -- peace out. -+- If Bill Gates got a dime for every time Windows crashes... ...oh, wait. He does. THAT explains it! -+- in a world with out fences, who needs gates. -+- CentOS GNU/Linux 6.6 tc,hago. g . -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: system response issue
On 07/13/2015 06:52 PM, g wrote: more for thought, is tar building finale file in memory, /tmp, or on the usb3 drive? :) Well, since I was using a pipe, I assume swap backed memory is used. However, the un-tar process is running in parallel, so the RAM pipe is shared between the producer tar and the consumer tar, which populates the destination directory with the contents of the source directory. That said, I do not think that the entirety of the source dir is first copied to the pipe, before it is then consumed by the untar process. I think the RAM pipe is being read (emptied), as the producer fills it (using thread synchronization primitives). Just my guess. I have not looked at tar's source code. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: system response issue
On 07/13/15 21:17, jd1008 wrote: On 07/13/2015 06:52 PM, g wrote: more for thought, is tar building finale file in memory, /tmp, or on the usb3 drive? :) Well, since I was using a pipe, I assume swap backed memory is used. However, the un-tar process is running in parallel, so the RAM pipe is shared between the producer tar and the consumer tar, which populates the destination directory with the contents of the source directory. That said, I do not think that the entirety of the source dir is first copied to the pipe, before it is then consumed by the untar process. I think the RAM pipe is being read (emptied), as the producer fills it (using thread synchronization primitives). Just my guess. I have not looked at tar's source code. ok. you have now thrown in *pipe* and process *un-tar*. are you using tar to pass files to target and have them end up as separate files, or as a single archive file? ria, all i see in your original post is tar -C /sdc1 -xpvf which would indicate archiving to a single file. just what is your actual command line? -- peace out. -+- If Bill Gates got a dime for every time Windows crashes... ...oh, wait. He does. THAT explains it! -+- in a world with out fences, who needs gates. -+- CentOS GNU/Linux 6.6 tc,hago. g . -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: system response issue
On Mon, 2015-07-13 at 13:50 -0600, jd1008 wrote: I started a tar command from one external eSATA drive (ext4), connected to eSATA port, out to a USB flash drive (with vfat). The USB stick is touted to support 50MB/s write, 160MB/s read. Have you actually measured its real write speed for large files? Try something like: time dd if=/dev/zero of=/the/usb/drive count=1000 bs=1M You might be surprised. poc -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
system response issue
I started a tar command from one external eSATA drive (ext4), connected to eSATA port, out to a USB flash drive (with vfat). The USB stick is touted to support 50MB/s write, 160MB/s read. The USB port itself is USB 2.0 (480MBits/s). The desktop (Mate) response goes down the tubes. I ran top and found that cpu is only 3% usage by firefox. rest are a few at 1%, and rest showing 0%. Load average: load average: 5.95, 5.81, 6.05 Wow Why? I ran iotop -d 3 and found 3263 be/4 root0.00 B/s0.00 B/s 0.00 % 99.99 % [kworker/u16:3] 61 be/4 root0.00 B/s0.00 B/s 0.00 % 99.99 % [kswapd0] 3180 be/4 root 335.95 B/s3.62 M/s 0.00 % 99.99 % tar -C /sdc1 -xpvf - 4071 be/4 root0.00 B/s0.00 B/s 0.00 % 27.36 % [kworker/0:2] Processes that are started but idle: 1 instance of smplayer (idle - nothing being played) 2 instances of TB (for 2 different profiles) - idle - no incoming or outgoing emails. both check for mail every so many minutes. 1 instance of FF with a total of 6 tabs - all of them idle (no videos, no audios on them and no animations.). So, it seems that the scheduler is letting the disk io pretty much commandeer and hijack system response time for the DT. Is there a configuration tweak to grant more cycles to the DT (mouse, KB) interaction with other GUI based programs? -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: system response issue
On Mon, 2015-07-13 at 15:37 -0600, jd1008 wrote: On 07/13/2015 03:13 PM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: On Mon, 2015-07-13 at 13:50 -0600, jd1008 wrote: I started a tar command from one external eSATA drive (ext4), connected to eSATA port, out to a USB flash drive (with vfat). The USB stick is touted to support 50MB/s write, 160MB/s read. Have you actually measured its real write speed for large files? Try something like: time dd if=/dev/zero of=/the/usb/drive count=1000 bs=1M You might be surprised. poc Well, I am not surprised, but disappointed (seriously!!!) $ time dd if=/dev/zero of=/run/media/jd/USB3_ST1-2K/test-wr-speed.txt bs=1M count=1000 1000+0 records in 1000+0 records out 1048576000 bytes (1.0 GB) copied, 57.6116 s, 18.2 MB/s real0m57.88s user0m0.00s sys 0m1.28s So much for 50MB/s write speed USB flash drives only work efficiently at multiples of their internal block size, which is not usually directly visible to the host (Google for info on how flash drives actually work; hint: every write requires the entire block to be zeroed and then overwritten). The claimed I/O speed of these devices is achievable, just not under real conditions with a generic driver. poc -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: system response issue
On Mon, 2015-07-13 at 15:42 -0600, jd1008 wrote: On 07/13/2015 03:13 PM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: On Mon, 2015-07-13 at 13:50 -0600, jd1008 wrote: I started a tar command from one external eSATA drive (ext4), connected to eSATA port, out to a USB flash drive (with vfat). The USB stick is touted to support 50MB/s write, 160MB/s read. Have you actually measured its real write speed for large files? Try something like: time dd if=/dev/zero of=/the/usb/drive count=1000 bs=1M You might be surprised. poc As I just replied with the actual read/write performance data on this USB 3.0 SUperTalentExpress Drive (256GB), I am much more surprised by the fact that while tarring a large dir to it from a fast eSATA drive, the system becomes nearly unusable!!! So, if this shtick is so slow, why is writing to it killing the response time for everything else? IIRC USB drives are not DMA driven, i.e. each filesystem block written to the drive has to be pushed over the serial bus and handled by the CPU. Also, check if the drive is mounted with the 'flush' option, which sacrifices speed for greater integrity (i.e. less damage of the user pulls the drive without ejecting it). poc -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: system response issue
On 07/13/2015 03:13 PM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: On Mon, 2015-07-13 at 13:50 -0600, jd1008 wrote: I started a tar command from one external eSATA drive (ext4), connected to eSATA port, out to a USB flash drive (with vfat). The USB stick is touted to support 50MB/s write, 160MB/s read. Have you actually measured its real write speed for large files? Try something like: time dd if=/dev/zero of=/the/usb/drive count=1000 bs=1M You might be surprised. poc Well, I am not surprised, but disappointed (seriously!!!) $ time dd if=/dev/zero of=/run/media/jd/USB3_ST1-2K/test-wr-speed.txt bs=1M count=1000 1000+0 records in 1000+0 records out 1048576000 bytes (1.0 GB) copied, 57.6116 s, 18.2 MB/s real0m57.88s user0m0.00s sys 0m1.28s So much for 50MB/s write speed Testing the read speed: $ time dd if=/run/media/jd/USB3_ST1-2K/F3296296960 of=/dev/null bs=8M 392+1 records in 392+1 records out 3296296960 bytes (3.3 GB) copied, 106.6 s, 30.9 MB/s real1m46.62s user0m0.00s sys 0m4.48s So much for 160MB/s read. I am going to diss this piece of ... [expletive/deleted] -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: system response issue
On 07/13/2015 03:13 PM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: On Mon, 2015-07-13 at 13:50 -0600, jd1008 wrote: I started a tar command from one external eSATA drive (ext4), connected to eSATA port, out to a USB flash drive (with vfat). The USB stick is touted to support 50MB/s write, 160MB/s read. Have you actually measured its real write speed for large files? Try something like: time dd if=/dev/zero of=/the/usb/drive count=1000 bs=1M You might be surprised. poc As I just replied with the actual read/write performance data on this USB 3.0 SUperTalentExpress Drive (256GB), I am much more surprised by the fact that while tarring a large dir to it from a fast eSATA drive, the system becomes nearly unusable!!! So, if this shtick is so slow, why is writing to it killing the response time for everything else? -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: system response issue
On 07/13/2015 05:15 PM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: On Mon, 2015-07-13 at 15:42 -0600, jd1008 wrote: On 07/13/2015 03:13 PM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: On Mon, 2015-07-13 at 13:50 -0600, jd1008 wrote: I started a tar command from one external eSATA drive (ext4), connected to eSATA port, out to a USB flash drive (with vfat). The USB stick is touted to support 50MB/s write, 160MB/s read. Have you actually measured its real write speed for large files? Try something like: time dd if=/dev/zero of=/the/usb/drive count=1000 bs=1M You might be surprised. poc As I just replied with the actual read/write performance data on this USB 3.0 SUperTalentExpress Drive (256GB), I am much more surprised by the fact that while tarring a large dir to it from a fast eSATA drive, the system becomes nearly unusable!!! So, if this shtick is so slow, why is writing to it killing the response time for everything else? IIRC USB drives are not DMA driven, i.e. each filesystem block written to the drive has to be pushed over the serial bus and handled by the CPU. Also, check if the drive is mounted with the 'flush' option, which sacrifices speed for greater integrity (i.e. less damage of the user pulls the drive without ejecting it). poc Good tip. I will check next time when I rerun the test. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: system response issue
On 07/13/15 19:38, jd1008 wrote: On 07/13/2015 05:15 PM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: IIRC USB drives are not DMA driven, i.e. each filesystem block written to the drive has to be pushed over the serial bus and handled by the CPU. Also, check if the drive is mounted with the 'flush' option, which sacrifices speed for greater integrity (i.e. less damage of the user pulls the drive without ejecting it). poc Good tip. I will check next time when I rerun the test. i agree with 'poc' 100% with both of his statements. also, i think you might want to rethink your thinking. you say you are connecting to a usb2 port and device is a usb3. near all reading of spec for usb3 devices that will work on usb2 have a statement that thru put speeds will be less if used on usb2. more for thought, is tar building finale file in memory, /tmp, or on the usb3 drive? -- peace out. -+- If Bill Gates got a dime for every time Windows crashes... ...oh, wait. He does. THAT explains it! -+- in a world with out fences, who needs gates. -+- CentOS GNU/Linux 6.6 tc,hago. g . -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
