Re: [IronPython] [Kamaelia-list] Kamaelia and IronPython (was: Hosting IronPython 2.X in .NET app)
M. David Peterson a écrit : On 7/20/07, *Michael Sparks* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, In the interests of you having a quiet life (who wants to be dealing with lawyers when writing code? :-)... Who wants to deal with lawyers *EVER*! ;-) I must admit though, after so many years in OSS, this is the first time I hear this sentence. Mind you this is not as if Microsoft was the only one doing so, I bet all the big companies do so. They have to. From a developer point of view though, it's a big WTF? :D Thanks Dino for the honesty nonetheless. - Sylvain ___ users mailing list users@lists.ironpython.com http://lists.ironpython.com/listinfo.cgi/users-ironpython.com
Re: [IronPython] [Kamaelia-list] Kamaelia and IronPython (was: Hosting IronPython 2.X in .NET app)
On 7/20/07, Sylvain Hellegouarch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I must admit though, after so many years in OSS, this is the first time I hear this sentence. How many OSS projects and/or the projects corporate sponsor generate 50 some odd billion a year in revenue and have at any given time 30-60 some odd billion in the bank? Couple this with the fact that for all intents and purposes MSFT has only been in the open source business for between 2-3 years (and its only the last year that they have really pushed the OSS power play button) and it makes sense as to why this is the first time you have heard this sentence. Mind you this is not as if Microsoft was the only one doing so, I bet all the big companies do so. They have to. Even if they were the only ones, how many big companies do you know that generate 50+/-billion... and have in the bank 30-60+/-billion...? The game changes when you have resources that rival the GNP of a small to medium sized nation. As much as I'm sure we all, to some extent, wish this wasn't the case, it really *IS* about the money. Maybe not in every respect, but again, when you're a target as big as MSFT, the game changes. Maybe its just MSFT being ultra sensitive, but again, when that much cash has to be constantly protected from a million different directions, attempting to convince the lawyers that yeah, but OSS communities are different than the rest of the world isn't going to be an easy task, especially when OSS luminaries such as Eric Raymond are making statements such as, I expect to be quite wealthy once the dust from the Linux IPOs has settled Doing It For The Causehttp://wearcam.org/esr_travelrules_speaking/esr_travelrules.html, December 12th, 1999 Like I said, it really is about the money. From a developer point of view though, it's a big WTF? :D Thus my comment who want's to deal with lawyers *EVER*. Generally speaking, its not in our genetic makeup to think of the world in such a way. Fortunately there *ARE* lawyers (even if I don't want to deal with them) who take interest in taking care of things like this for us so we can spend more of our time worrying about writing code, and less of our time dealing with the legalities of the trade. Thanks Dino for the honesty nonetheless. Ditto. -- /M:D M. David Peterson http://mdavid.name | http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/2354 | http://dev.aol.com/blog/3155 ___ users mailing list users@lists.ironpython.com http://lists.ironpython.com/listinfo.cgi/users-ironpython.com
Re: [IronPython] [Kamaelia-list] Kamaelia and IronPython (was: Hosting IronPython 2.X in .NET app)
On 7/17/07, M. David Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It now has 2 :D make that *10*, second only to importing pre-compiled modules on the request list. http://www.codeplex.com/IronPython/WorkItem/AdvancedList.aspx What's it gonna take to get you to click the above link, if necessary sign into Codeplex, and then click the Vote button? ;-) :D That was cheaper than I thought. :) Thanks, everyone! :D -- /M:D M. David Peterson http://mdavid.name | http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/2354 | http://dev.aol.com/blog/3155 ___ users mailing list users@lists.ironpython.com http://lists.ironpython.com/listinfo.cgi/users-ironpython.com
Re: [IronPython] [Kamaelia-list] Kamaelia and IronPython (was: Hosting IronPython 2.X in .NET app)
On 7/18/07, M. David Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 7/17/07, M. David Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED]https://mail.google.com/mail?view=cmtf=0[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It now has 2 :D make that *10*, second only to importing pre-compiled modules on the request list. http://www.codeplex.com/IronPython/WorkItem/AdvancedList.aspx Did I say 10? I meant *12*!http://www.cbs.com/latenight/lateshow/wahoo/index/php/20050926.phtml 5 more votes and Implement import of pre-compiled moduleshttp://www.codeplex.com/IronPython/WorkItem/View.aspx?WorkItemId=358 gets its a$$ kicked to the curb! (wait, thats a good thing, right? ;-) Well, regardless: Come on folks! 5 more votes and the only thing standing between us and support for nested yield statements is, umm, the time between now + the time that some PM at MSFT asks for a status report on the most active bugs + the 30 seconds before the report is delivered to quickly fix the top three bugs + the next release that follows the report being delivered to the now satisfied MSFT PM that is now convinced this community thing is *REALLY* working! That shouldn't be very long, should it? ;-) (Dear IronPython team: I kid, I kid. I worked on campus for enough years to understand how hard you guys work and how much is expected of you. Keep up the great work! And smile. A lot! :D) -- /M:D M. David Peterson http://mdavid.name | http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/2354 | http://dev.aol.com/blog/3155 ___ users mailing list users@lists.ironpython.com http://lists.ironpython.com/listinfo.cgi/users-ironpython.com
Re: [IronPython] [Kamaelia-list] Kamaelia and IronPython (was: Hosting IronPython 2.X in .NET app)
Awesome, this will have to be fixed soon. I don’t know that any of our PMs are tracking the list, it’s more like “time to fix bugs, let’s look at the list!” ☺. To make this even better we’ve been running into some of our own issues w/ this which provide us w/ additional motivation to fix this. I’m betting it won’t make it into the next release (Alpha 3?), but hopefully the release after that. Thanks everyone who voted for this. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of M. David Peterson Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 6:09 AM To: Discussion of IronPython Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Peter Fisk; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [IronPython] [Kamaelia-list] Kamaelia and IronPython (was: Hosting IronPython 2.X in .NET app) On 7/18/07, M. David Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 7/17/07, M. David Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED]https://mail.google.com/mail?view=cmtf=0[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It now has 2 :D make that *10*, second only to importing pre-compiled modules on the request list. http://www.codeplex.com/IronPython/WorkItem/AdvancedList.aspx Did I say 10? I meant *12*!http://www.cbs.com/latenight/lateshow/wahoo/index/php/20050926.phtml 5 more votes and Implement import of pre-compiled moduleshttp://www.codeplex.com/IronPython/WorkItem/View.aspx?WorkItemId=358 gets its a$$ kicked to the curb! (wait, thats a good thing, right? ;-) Well, regardless: Come on folks! 5 more votes and the only thing standing between us and support for nested yield statements is, umm, the time between now + the time that some PM at MSFT asks for a status report on the most active bugs + the 30 seconds before the report is delivered to quickly fix the top three bugs + the next release that follows the report being delivered to the now satisfied MSFT PM that is now convinced this community thing is *REALLY* working! That shouldn't be very long, should it? ;-) (Dear IronPython team: I kid, I kid. I worked on campus for enough years to understand how hard you guys work and how much is expected of you. Keep up the great work! And smile. A lot! :D) -- /M:D M. David Peterson http://mdavid.name | http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/2354 | http://dev.aol.com/blog/3155 ___ users mailing list users@lists.ironpython.com http://lists.ironpython.com/listinfo.cgi/users-ironpython.com
Re: [IronPython] [Kamaelia-list] Kamaelia and IronPython (was: Hosting IronPython 2.X in .NET app)
On 7/18/07, Dino Viehland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Awesome, this will have to be fixed soon. I don't know that any of our PMs are tracking the list, And if they were, I would question why in the hell that particular PM is getting in the way of progress! ;-) it's more like time to fix bugs, let's look at the list! J. Which makes the 16 votes this bug currently has that much more exciting! :D To make this even better we've been running into some of our own issues w/ this which provide us w/ additional motivation to fix this. Nice! I'm betting it won't make it into the next release (Alpha 3?), but hopefully the release after that. All I hope for is that it gets fixed in time for the first beta such that it can be properly and thoroughly tested before the final release. Thanks for all of your efforts with this! One thing: Would it be helpful if myself or someone else were to pull together a test suite composed of Axon/Kamaelia and all non-C API-based Kamaelia components? Not sure if providing external test suites is considered kosher, but if yes and it would be helpful, I'd be happy to put forth the effort. Thanks everyone who voted for this. I second the thanks. Thanks everyone! :D -- /M:D M. David Peterson http://mdavid.name | http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/2354 | http://dev.aol.com/blog/3155 ___ users mailing list users@lists.ironpython.com http://lists.ironpython.com/listinfo.cgi/users-ironpython.com
Re: [IronPython] [Kamaelia-list] Kamaelia and IronPython (was: Hosting IronPython 2.X in .NET app)
I know both Martin and I have wanted to fix this bug in the past and just haven’t gotten the time to do it yet and haven’t seen anyone w/ a pressing need for it. The bug for this (3410, http://www.codeplex.com/IronPython/WorkItem/View.aspx?WorkItemId=3410) currently only has 1 vote so if we get votes for it then it will rise to the top of our priorities. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of M. David Peterson Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 12:01 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Discussion of IronPython; Peter Fisk Subject: Re: [IronPython] [Kamaelia-list] Kamaelia and IronPython (was: Hosting IronPython 2.X in .NET app) On 7/11/07, Michael Sparks [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wednesday 11 July 2007 10:25, M. David Peterson wrote: File HTTPClient, line unknown, in Initialize SyntaxError: yield in more than one try blocks This is a bug in the IronPython implementation of python's generators - this has been legal in python since python 2.2.2. I'm guessing it's a known bug by the sounds of things. Yep, I believe so. IronPython team: Are there any known concerns that might keep this from making into the final IP2.0 release? The reason incidentally we focus on compatibility with python 2.2.2 is because that also happens to be the version of python ported to Nokia mobile phones, and we'd like to retain the option of running Kamaelia on such platforms. (Having done so in the past and found we can do some fun things as a result! :) Which leads me to wonder how much of an impact Silverlight/DLR in the mobile device space might have? The notion of decentralized concurrent inbox/outbox operations taking place over, for example, a Kamaelia-based mesh network sounds WAY TOO COOL not to get excited about. Michael: FYI The Dynamic Language Runtime is what IronPython 2.0 as well as IronRuby, a new JScript.NET implementation, as well as a new language referred to as Dynamic VB are built upon. If not mistaken, once Kamaelia can be run successfully on IronPython 2.0, then all of Kamaelia would be accessible via this same base of languages as well as other DLR-based projects such as Vista Smalltalk/DLR The nice thing about the above code is that it looks pretty linear, but has the cross platform scalabilty benefits of state machine approach. (which is *why* we use generators rather than threads) Nice! I wasn't aware of this until now, but it makes complete sense! -- /M:D M. David Peterson http://mdavid.name | http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/2354 | http://dev.aol.com/blog/3155 ___ users mailing list users@lists.ironpython.com http://lists.ironpython.com/listinfo.cgi/users-ironpython.com
Re: [IronPython] [Kamaelia-list] Kamaelia and IronPython (was: Hosting IronPython 2.X in .NET app)
On 7/17/07, Dino Viehland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The bug for this (3410, http://www.codeplex.com/IronPython/WorkItem/View.aspx?WorkItemId=3410) currently only has 1 vote so if we get votes for it then it will rise to the top of our priorities. It now has 2 :D Everyone else in the community: *PLEASE* oh *PLEASE* take a second and vote for this bug. The very thought of being able to gain access to Axon/Kamaelia via IronPython is enough for me to turn to bribery if the need arises, so lets just cut to the chase, What's it gonna take to get you to click the above link, if necessary sign into Codeplex, and then click the Vote button? ;-) :D -- /M:D M. David Peterson http://mdavid.name | http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/2354 | http://dev.aol.com/blog/3155 ___ users mailing list users@lists.ironpython.com http://lists.ironpython.com/listinfo.cgi/users-ironpython.com
Re: [IronPython] [Kamaelia-list] Kamaelia and IronPython (was: Hosting IronPython 2.X in .NET app)
On 7/11/07, Michael Sparks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wednesday 11 July 2007 10:25, M. David Peterson wrote: File HTTPClient, line unknown, in Initialize SyntaxError: yield in more than one try blocks This is a bug in the IronPython implementation of python's generators - this has been legal in python since python 2.2.2. I'm guessing it's a known bug by the sounds of things. Yep, I believe so. IronPython team: Are there any known concerns that might keep this from making into the final IP2.0 release? The reason incidentally we focus on compatibility with python 2.2.2 is because that also happens to be the version of python ported to Nokia mobile phones, and we'd like to retain the option of running Kamaelia on such platforms. (Having done so in the past and found we can do some fun things as a result! :) Which leads me to wonder how much of an impact Silverlight/DLR in the mobile device space might have? The notion of decentralized concurrent inbox/outbox operations taking place over, for example, a Kamaelia-based mesh network sounds WAY TOO COOL not to get excited about. Michael: FYI The Dynamic Language Runtime is what IronPython 2.0 as well as IronRuby, a new JScript.NET implementation, as well as a new language referred to as Dynamic VB are built upon. If not mistaken, once Kamaelia can be run successfully on IronPython 2.0, then all of Kamaelia would be accessible via this same base of languages as well as other DLR-based projects such as Vista Smalltalk/DLR The nice thing about the above code is that it looks pretty linear, but has the cross platform scalabilty benefits of state machine approach. (which is *why* we use generators rather than threads) Nice! I wasn't aware of this until now, but it makes complete sense! -- /M:D M. David Peterson http://mdavid.name | http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/2354 | http://dev.aol.com/blog/3155 ___ users mailing list users@lists.ironpython.com http://lists.ironpython.com/listinfo.cgi/users-ironpython.com
