Re: English language pack install installed PuP malware

[Matthew Ford]

p.s. the hashes below are for another download, since I deleted the 
first one after the malware problem.


On 19/10/2023 11:20, Matthew Ford wrote:


Observed problem.

1 Downloaded and installed 4.1.44 Full installation for Windows,  
installed and updated earlier version.
As part of this install all other programs where exited, eg Chrome and 
an Android emulator, JEdit etc  were closed


2 Downloaded and installed 
Apache_OpenOffice_4.1.14_Win_x86_langpack_en-US.exe
At start of installation install found V4.1.14 language pack and said 
it would update to V4.1.14 language pack


On clicking install, Windows10 raised a security exception
msiexec.exe accessing \Device\HarddiskVolume3  (the C: drive)
I approved this exception.

Later Windows10 raised another security exception
SrTasks.exe access to \Device\HarddiskVolumeShadowCopy22

I denied this exception and ran MalwareBytes which found a PuP malware.


*1)* The exact file name of the downloaded installation file.

Apache_OpenOffice_4.1.14_Win_x86_langpack_en-US

*2)* The value of the downloaded signature/hash file.

4744101c5252dae3567012016a8e48671afec744d121ffcd87479aeab4b12612

*3)* The processed signature/hash from your computer.

4744101c5252dae3567012016a8e48671afec744d121ffcd87479aeab4b12612

*4)* The exact size of the installation file in byte.

18,705,656

*5)* Have you used a proxy server (yes/no)? No

*6)* The exact URL from the server from where the files was downloaded.

https://sourceforge.net/projects/openofficeorg.mirror/files/4.1.14/binaries/en-US/Apache_OpenOffice_4.1.14_Win_x86_langpack_en-US.exe/download

English language pack install installed PuP malware

[Matthew Ford]

Observed problem.

1 Downloaded and installed 4.1.44 Full installation for Windows, 
installed and updated earlier version.
As part of this install all other programs where exited, eg Chrome and 
an Android emulator, JEdit etc  were closed


2 Downloaded and installed 
Apache_OpenOffice_4.1.14_Win_x86_langpack_en-US.exe
At start of installation install found V4.1.14 language pack and said it 
would update to V4.1.14 language pack


On clicking install, Windows10 raised a security exception
msiexec.exe accessing \Device\HarddiskVolume3  (the C: drive)
I approved this exception.

Later Windows10 raised another security exception
SrTasks.exe access to \Device\HarddiskVolumeShadowCopy22

I denied this exception and ran MalwareBytes which found a PuP malware.


*1)* The exact file name of the downloaded installation file.

Apache_OpenOffice_4.1.14_Win_x86_langpack_en-US

*2)* The value of the downloaded signature/hash file.

4744101c5252dae3567012016a8e48671afec744d121ffcd87479aeab4b12612

*3)* The processed signature/hash from your computer.

4744101c5252dae3567012016a8e48671afec744d121ffcd87479aeab4b12612

*4)* The exact size of the installation file in byte.

18,705,656

*5)* Have you used a proxy server (yes/no)? No

*6)* The exact URL from the server from where the files was downloaded.

https://sourceforge.net/projects/openofficeorg.mirror/files/4.1.14/binaries/en-US/Apache_OpenOffice_4.1.14_Win_x86_langpack_en-US.exe/download

Keeps crashing and says this is malware

[Kathryn Kumzi]

Hi,for some reason lately the open office keeps crashing and when I first 
downloaded it kept saying it was malware.
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Re: Malware InstantSupport and other evil harm

[Lloyd Prentice]

Dr. Knaack, MD, and others,I have been attacked several times over the last months by viruses or other malware. The one that I found today is called “scanner5244513087” which came in by email to our old address. We use AVAST Mac Security, which found the infection and blocked it. Attached below is the brief report captured as a tiff file by the “Grab” application. Lloyd Prentice__On May 16, 2016, at 8:28 PM, Wade Smart <wadesm...@gmail.com> wrote:On Mon, May 16, 2016 at 6:37 PM, Rudolph H. Knaack, MD<r...@knaackfarm.com> wrote:Sirs:I am reporting that I acquired the InstantSupport mal-adware while downloading OpenOffice 4.0 from your download site.I have been a user of OpenOffice for 2 years, however, it has taken several days of attention to weed this thing out of my computer.  It is unlikely I will attempt downloading it again.I believe it is important that you are aware of stuff that is piggy-backed onto your software.Sincerely,R.KnaackYou downloaded from where?-To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.orgFor additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.apache.org{\rtf1\ansi\ansicpg1252\cocoartf1348\cocoasubrtf170
{\fonttbl\f0\fswiss\fcharset0 Helvetica;}
{\colortbl;\red255\green255\blue255;}
\margl1440\margr1440\vieww10800\viewh8400\viewkind0
\pard\tx720\tx1440\tx2160\tx2880\tx3600\tx4320\tx5040\tx5760\tx6480\tx7200\tx7920\tx8640\pardirnatural

\f0\fs30 \cf0 Infection blocked!  5-16-2016\
\
Avast Mail shield has bloced a threat.\
\
Infection: 	JS:LockyDownloader [Trj]\
Subject:	Attached Doc\
From:	scanner5244513...@frontiernet.net\
To:		\'93lcprent...@frontiernet.net\'94\
		<lcprent...@frontiernet.net>\
\pard\tx720\tx1440\tx2160\tx2880\tx3600\tx4320\tx5040\tx5760\tx6480\tx7200\tx7920\tx8640\pardirnatural
\cf0 File:		lcprentice@frontiernet.net_7635689890 \'85\
		\'85 \'85\
Process:	/Applications/Mail.app/Contents/MacOS/Mail\
\pard\tx720\tx1440\tx2160\tx2880\tx3600\tx4320\tx5040\tx5760\tx6480\tx7200\tx7920\tx8640\pardirnatural
\cf0 		 \
  }

Re: Malware InstantSupport

[Gary Frost]

I also did get the same malware, but downloaded add ons 


> On May 16, 2016, at 6:28 PM, Wade Smart <wadesm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> On Mon, May 16, 2016 at 6:37 PM, Rudolph H. Knaack, MD
> <r...@knaackfarm.com> wrote:
>> Sirs:
>> 
>> I am reporting that I acquired the InstantSupport mal-adware while 
>> downloading OpenOffice 4.0 from your download site.
>> I have been a user of OpenOffice for 2 years, however, it has taken several 
>> days of attention to weed this thing out of my computer.  It is unlikely I 
>> will attempt downloading it again.
>> I believe it is important that you are aware of stuff that is piggy-backed 
>> onto your software.
>> 
>> Sincerely,
>> R.Knaack
> 
> You downloaded from where?
> 
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> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.apache.org
> 


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Re: Malware InstantSupport

[Wade Smart]

On Mon, May 16, 2016 at 6:37 PM, Rudolph H. Knaack, MD
 wrote:
> Sirs:
>
> I am reporting that I acquired the InstantSupport mal-adware while 
> downloading OpenOffice 4.0 from your download site.
> I have been a user of OpenOffice for 2 years, however, it has taken several 
> days of attention to weed this thing out of my computer.  It is unlikely I 
> will attempt downloading it again.
> I believe it is important that you are aware of stuff that is piggy-backed 
> onto your software.
>
> Sincerely,
> R.Knaack

You downloaded from where?

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Malware InstantSupport

[Rudolph H. Knaack, MD]

Sirs:

I am reporting that I acquired the InstantSupport mal-adware while downloading 
OpenOffice 4.0 from your download site.
I have been a user of OpenOffice for 2 years, however, it has taken several 
days of attention to weed this thing out of my computer.  It is unlikely I will 
attempt downloading it again.
I believe it is important that you are aware of stuff that is piggy-backed onto 
your software.

Sincerely,
R.Knaack

Re: How to get Open Office without Malware

[user]

Hello MJ,

one question, because i dont get it.

you are able to write email to official apache mailing list, but you are 
NOT able to download official OpenOffice from this website


i really dont understand that!

it was called openoffice.org, this is also the official link of 
website...


google makes stupid i suggest.



greetings

-- Originalnachricht --
Von: Marilyn Jackson marilynejack...@sbcglobal.net
An: users@openoffice.apache.org users@openoffice.apache.org
Gesendet: 17.12.2014 23:39:34
Betreff: How to get Open Office without Malware

Hi. I recently had trouble by downloading Open Office with malware. How 
can I get a version that's safe to use? I see someone is selling CDs of 
3.2 on Ebay for the software.


MJ



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Re: How to get Open Office without Malware

[Brian Barker]

At 15:52 18/12/2014 +, Nobody Noname wrote:
one question, because i don't get it... you are able to write email 
to official apache mailing list, but you are NOT able to download 
official OpenOffice from this website?


Well, this is not a web site, of course.


i really don't understand that!


I do.


it was called openoffice.org, this is also the official link of website...


People called it Open Office. It's now called Apache OpenOffice. 
There are no orgs about.



google makes stupid i suggest.


If you search for open office you will indeed get all sorts of 
unfortunate references. But after downloading something 
inappropriate, a user may then find the real site when searching 
further for assistance.


As you may realise, www.openoffice.org redirects to soureceforge.net 
for the actual download. On the actual Sourceforge download page, 
there is a small legend at the top saying that the download will 
start shortly. It will. But there are various large green Download 
buttons on that page which lead to other, no doubt unwanted, material 
- which may well be considered malware. I wonder how many users 
imagine that to download the product they need to click such a 
Download button: that would be a not unreasonable idea! This way, 
they will receive the unwanted material along with the real thing.


I trust this helps.

Brian Barker


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Re[2]: How to get Open Office without Malware

[user]

-- Originalnachricht --
Von: Brian Barker b.m.bar...@btinternet.com
An: users@openoffice.apache.org
Gesendet: 18.12.2014 17:28:24
Betreff: Re: How to get Open Office without Malware


At 15:52 18/12/2014 +, Nobody Noname wrote:
one question, because i don't get it... you are able to write email to 
official apache mailing list, but you are NOT able to download 
official OpenOffice from this website?


Well, this is not a web site, of course.

Yes, of course its no website, but to find this mailinglist you have to 
go to official apache website.



i really don't understand that!


I do.

it was called openoffice.org, this is also the official link of 
website...


People called it Open Office. It's now called Apache OpenOffice. There 
are no orgs about.


maybe its because im using OpenOffice since version 1.0 (oay, since 1996 
when you count from StarOffice 4.0) and it was alway www.openoffice.org.


old users should have learn this... maybe MJ is new user.


google makes stupid i suggest.


If you search for open office you will indeed get all sorts of 
unfortunate references. But after downloading something inappropriate, 
a user may then find the real site when searching further for 
assistance.


As you may realise, www.openoffice.org redirects to soureceforge.net 
for the actual download. On the actual Sourceforge download page, there 
is a small legend at the top saying that the download will start 
shortly. It will. But there are various large green Download buttons 
on that page which lead to other, no doubt unwanted, material - which 
may well be considered malware. I wonder how many users imagine that to 
download the product they need to click such a Download button: that 
would be a not unreasonable idea! This way, they will receive the 
unwanted material along with the real thing.


I trust this helps.

Brian Barker


what can apache do, that google dont offer websites with 
malware-versions first on search-results? this damn malware versions can 
damage the name of the software over time.

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Re: How to get Open Office without Malware

[Andrea Pescetti]

user wrote:

what can apache do, that google dont offer websites with
malware-versions first on search-results?


It can assert its trademark. It takes time, but sometimes we manage.


this damn malware versions can damage the name of the software over time.


This is why we try, with mixed success, to block misleading 
advertisement in search engines from time to time. If you see 
unacceptable sites when you search for an Apache trademark (like 
OpenOffice.org, or Apache OpenOffice, or, to these purposes, even simply 
OpenOffice) in a search engine please report it to the PMC: 
https://openoffice.apache.org/trademarks.html


Advertisement on search engines, unfortunately, depends a lot on 
context, so it's important that you include information about language 
and country.


Regards,
  Andrea.

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How to get Open Office without Malware

[Marilyn Jackson]

Hi.  I recently had trouble by downloading Open Office with malware. How can I 
get a version that's safe to use?  I see someone is selling CDs of 3.2 on Ebay 
for the software.

MJ

Re: How to get Open Office without Malware

[Jim McLaughlin]

Current version is 4.1.1.

Download safely only from www.openoffice.org

On Wed, Dec 17, 2014 at 2:39 PM, Marilyn Jackson 
marilynejack...@sbcglobal.net wrote:

 Hi.  I recently had trouble by downloading Open Office with malware. How
 can I get a version that's safe to use?  I see someone is selling CDs of
 3.2 on Ebay for the software.

 MJ

Re: How to get Open Office without Malware

[Tosha Alani :o)]

How may I unsubscibe from the questions thread? Thanks!

Blessings!,
~Tosha

*Tosha Alani :o)* *Real Estate Broker*
p/t:* 206.353.5525 *f:* 206-905-0245*
*Serving the Beautiful Pacific Northwest!* www.talanirealty.com
*Visit Me On Facebook:* www.facebook.com/KingCountyRealEstate

*How Wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting
to improve the World. -Anne Frank*





On Wed, Dec 17, 2014 at 3:28 PM, Jim McLaughlin jjim.mclaugh...@gmail.com
wrote:

 Current version is 4.1.1.

 Download safely only from www.openoffice.org

 On Wed, Dec 17, 2014 at 2:39 PM, Marilyn Jackson 
 marilynejack...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
 
  Hi.  I recently had trouble by downloading Open Office with malware. How
  can I get a version that's safe to use?  I see someone is selling CDs of
  3.2 on Ebay for the software.
 
  MJ

Re: How to get Open Office without Malware

[Martin Groenescheij]

On 18/12/2014 11:14 AM, Tosha Alani :o) wrote:

How may I unsubscibe from the questions thread? Thanks!


Go to the bottom of this email and follow the instructions.

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malware

[Bill Finn]

Greetings,
I use Open Office on my 2 desktop computers and love it.  I have an older Dell 
laptop that I use only occasionally.  I downloaded Open Office to it yesterday. 
 It runs Windows XP.  I had to disable the anti-virus program to download.  
Your download program deposited several annoying “extras” to my computer.  One 
of them called Lasaoren has infected my computer and taken over my web browser. 
 Why do you do that?  All I wanted was a clean download of your product.   How 
can I get rid of Lasaoren?
Thanks,
Bill

Re: malware

[James Knott]

On 11/06/2014 07:43 AM, Bill Finn wrote:
 Greetings,
 I use Open Office on my 2 desktop computers and love it.  I have an older 
 Dell laptop that I use only occasionally.  I downloaded Open Office to it 
 yesterday.  It runs Windows XP.  I had to disable the anti-virus program to 
 download.  Your download program deposited several annoying “extras” to my 
 computer.  One of them called Lasaoren has infected my computer and taken 
 over my web browser.  Why do you do that?  All I wanted was a clean download 
 of your product.   How can I get rid of Lasaoren?
 Thanks,
 Bill


I expect you downloaded from other than www.openoffice.org.  There are
other sites that load it up with crapware, as you apparently discovered.


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Re: Malware

[japples]

Great advice and, like you, I have never gotten malware from a download 
whether OO or ?? as I always research first.


Unfortunately, your comments are kind of hindsight as these people 
won't find your wise words until they start searching for someone to blast.


A quest for those of us who understand safe downloading is to help 
others learn how important it is to ensure downloads are from an 
official site. 

I am not computer literate enough to know how to spread this type of 
message.  Is there something like Twitter or Facebook or ?? to pass 
learning thus prevent bad experience?


Thank you for listening
Jack

Gary Frost wrote:

Greetings all:

It has been repeated on this list time and time again to only download Open 
Office from the actual official site. You must make sure you have the correct 
URL. And asking before you endeavor to strike out on the download may be a good 
idea if you have the least little doubt. There are many download sites, even 
from what you would expect would be malware free, but they are not. Please, ask 
if you have any doubt and think before you press that download to make sure you 
are getting what you expect to get. I have NEVER had any difficultY with 
malware of any sort from the official site and I have been using the product 
for years.

G Frost
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-
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2241 / Virus Database: 3722/6976 - Release Date: 05/11/14



  

Re: Malware

[japples]

That sounds great, Martin. 

Could a download script be smart enough to recognize (via non-editable 
script section) if it is being downloaded from an authentic site/page 
and flash a nauseating Warning - download only from . . .  (blurb 
similar to your suggestion) if it wasn't?  

Flashing a warning large enough to fill at least 1/3 of the screen would 
definitely get some attention and, probably, scare a lot of people!


Thanks for listening
Jack


Martin Groenescheij wrote:
The easiest way to warn novice users is a warning message in the 
installation script.

Maybe something like:


Make sure you have downloaded OpenOffice from one of these
   sites Apache http://www.apache.openoffice.org/ or Sourceforge
   http://sourceforge.net




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Re: Malware

[Martin Groenescheij]

On 12-5-2014 19:43, japples wrote:

That sounds great, Martin.
Could a download script be smart enough to recognize (via non-editable 
script section) if it is being downloaded from an authentic site/page 
and flash a nauseating Warning - download only from . . .  (blurb 
similar to your suggestion) if it wasn't?
Flashing a warning large enough to fill at least 1/3 of the screen 
would definitely get some attention and, probably, scare a lot of people!
Why not display it to all, no difficult programming is required. And by 
the way you only install it once.


Thanks for listening
Jack


Martin Groenescheij wrote:
The easiest way to warn novice users is a warning message in the 
installation script.

Maybe something like:


Make sure you have downloaded OpenOffice from one of these
   sites Apache http://www.apache.openoffice.org/ or Sourceforge
   http://sourceforge.net




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Re: Malware

[TN Patriot]

On Sun, 11 May 2014 23:59:31 -0600
Gary Frost gary_fr...@rocketmail.com wrote:

 Greetings all:
 
 It has been repeated on this list time and time again to only download Open 
 Office
 from the actual official site. You must make sure you have the correct URL. 
 And
 asking before you endeavor to strike out on the download may be a good idea 
 if you
 have the least little doubt. There are many download sites, even from what you
 would expect would be malware free, but they are not. Please, ask if you have 
 any
 doubt and think before you press that download to make sure you are getting 
 what
 you expect to get. I have NEVER had any difficultY with malware of any sort 
 from
 the official site and I have been using the product for years.
 
 G Frost

  You're trying to get people who shouldn't have a computer in the first place 
to
  'get a little smarter and think before acting'...good luck with that because 
there
  will *always* be those who refuse to think first and *then* put the car in 
gear.


-- 
http://www.lawcollective.org/  Learn your rights through cartoons!

http://www.roadblock.org/rights/  Know your rights about and at roadblocks!

http://fija.org/  Learn about Jury Nullification! Take back your rights from the
over-reaching: police, justice system and government!

Why does the government want to ban you owning weapons? Because you won’t get 
in the box car willingly.

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Re: Malware

[Gary Frost]

I agree and have thought about that too, but the evildoers would remove it 
most likely.

Sent from my iPhone

 On May 12, 2014, at 1:21 AM, Martin Groenescheij mar...@groenescheij.com 
 wrote:
 
 The easiest way to warn novice users is a warning message in the installation 
 script.
 Maybe something like:
 
 
Make sure you have downloaded OpenOffice from one of these
   sites Apache http://www.apache.openoffice.org/ or Sourceforge
   http://sourceforge.net
 
 
 On 12-5-2014 16:40, japples wrote:
 Great advice and, like you, I have never gotten malware from a download 
 whether OO or ?? as I always research first.
 
 Unfortunately, your comments are kind of hindsight as these people won't 
 find your wise words until they start searching for someone to blast.
 
 A quest for those of us who understand safe downloading is to help others 
 learn how important it is to ensure downloads are from an official site.
 I am not computer literate enough to know how to spread this type of 
 message.  Is there something like Twitter or Facebook or ?? to pass learning 
 thus prevent bad experience?
 
 Thank you for listening
 Jack
 
 Gary Frost wrote:
 Greetings all:
 
 It has been repeated on this list time and time again to only download Open 
 Office from the actual official site. You must make sure you have the 
 correct URL. And asking before you endeavor to strike out on the download 
 may be a good idea if you have the least little doubt. There are many 
 download sites, even from what you would expect would be malware free, but 
 they are not. Please, ask if you have any doubt and think before you press 
 that download to make sure you are getting what you expect to get. I have 
 NEVER had any difficultY with malware of any sort from the official site 
 and I have been using the product for years.
 
 G Frost
 --
 No virus found in this message.
 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
 Version: 2012.0.2241 / Virus Database: 3722/6976 - Release Date: 05/11/14
 

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Re: Malware

[japples]

Martin wrote:  Why not display it to all, no difficult programming is 
required. And by the way you only install it once. (Moved your comment 
for clarity.)


My thought was to keep dignity and refinement for the authorized 
download site / pages but add the tacky flashing warning for those sites 
adding malware and/or ?? thus making life miserable for the unaware 
(serves the unkind sites right for promoting other than OO written).


I am not sure what And by the way you only install it once fits into 
our chat about ways to warn newbies to ensure they get the correct 
download to start with.


Jack


Martin Groenescheij wrote:


On 12-5-2014 19:43, japples wrote:

That sounds great, Martin.
Could a download script be smart enough to recognize (via 
non-editable script section) if it is being downloaded from an 
authentic site/page and flash a nauseating Warning - download only 
from . . .  (blurb similar to your suggestion) if it wasn't?
Flashing a warning large enough to fill at least 1/3 of the screen 
would definitely get some attention and, probably, scare a lot of 
people!
Why not display it to all, no difficult programming is required. And 
by the way you only install it once.


Thanks for listening
Jack






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Re: Malware

[Martin Groenescheij]

Sent from my mobile device.

 On 12 May 2014, at 11:38 pm, Gary Frost glfr...@me.com wrote:
 
 I agree and have thought about that too, but the evildoers would remove it 
 most likely.
If the evildoers change the code without making users aware you Apache can 
sue them.
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On May 12, 2014, at 1:21 AM, Martin Groenescheij mar...@groenescheij.com 
 wrote:
 
 The easiest way to warn novice users is a warning message in the 
 installation script.
 Maybe something like:
 
 
   Make sure you have downloaded OpenOffice from one of these
  sites Apache http://www.apache.openoffice.org/ or Sourceforge
  http://sourceforge.net
 
 
 On 12-5-2014 16:40, japples wrote:
 Great advice and, like you, I have never gotten malware from a download 
 whether OO or ?? as I always research first.
 
 Unfortunately, your comments are kind of hindsight as these people won't 
 find your wise words until they start searching for someone to blast.
 
 A quest for those of us who understand safe downloading is to help others 
 learn how important it is to ensure downloads are from an official site.
 I am not computer literate enough to know how to spread this type of 
 message.  Is there something like Twitter or Facebook or ?? to pass 
 learning thus prevent bad experience?
 
 Thank you for listening
 Jack
 
 Gary Frost wrote:
 Greetings all:
 
 It has been repeated on this list time and time again to only download 
 Open Office from the actual official site. You must make sure you have the 
 correct URL. And asking before you endeavor to strike out on the download 
 may be a good idea if you have the least little doubt. There are many 
 download sites, even from what you would expect would be malware free, but 
 they are not. Please, ask if you have any doubt and think before you press 
 that download to make sure you are getting what you expect to get. I have 
 NEVER had any difficultY with malware of any sort from the official site 
 and I have been using the product for years.
 
 G Frost
 --
 No virus found in this message.
 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
 Version: 2012.0.2241 / Virus Database: 3722/6976 - Release Date: 05/11/14
 
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Re: Malware

[Julian Thomas]

On 12 May 2014, at 05:43, japples japp...@europa.com wrote:

 Could a download script be smart enough to recognize (via non-editable script 
 section) if it is being downloaded from an authentic site/page and flash a 
 nauseating Warning - download only from . . .  (blurb similar to your 
 suggestion) if it wasn't?  
 Flashing a warning large enough to fill at least 1/3 of the screen would 
 definitely get some attention and, probably, scare a lot of people!

You probably should protect against the bad site editing out the warning.  jt
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Re: Malware

[Martin Groenescheij]

On 13-5-2014 8:47, Julian Thomas wrote:

On 12 May 2014, at 05:43, japples japp...@europa.com wrote:


Could a download script be smart enough to recognize (via non-editable script section) if 
it is being downloaded from an authentic site/page and flash a nauseating Warning - 
download only from . . .  (blurb similar to your suggestion) if it wasn't?
Flashing a warning large enough to fill at least 1/3 of the screen would 
definitely get some attention and, probably, scare a lot of people!

You probably should protect against the bad site editing out the warning.  jt
Developers have no control over bad sites, but they have control over 
their code.

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