Re: Technically not spam
On 29 May 2020, at 11:11, Benny Pedersen wrote: > On 2020-05-29 17:40, @lbutlr wrote: > >> I can't just blacklist the IPs because some people want these emails. > > http://squirrelmail.org/ have support for list-* headers They generally do not have list headers, of course. At least not List-unsubscribe. Most of them pretend they are not mailing lists at all, as is the case with nearly all marketing email. > round-cube and others web-mail missing it, Roundcube has plugins that support list headers (Roundcube has plugins for most things). I believe Horde does as well, but I am less sure there. > oh dear is software from 2011 still stable ? Squirrelmail is not supported and I would definitely not recommend anyone run it, especially since you have to run a version of PHP that hasn’t been supported in 4 years and has known exploits that will never be fixed. -- 'I think, if you want thousands, you've got to fight for one.'
Re: Technically not spam
On 29 May 2020, at 10:57, Anne P. Mitchell, Esq. wrote: > "an e-mail recipient cannot be required to pay a fee, provide information > other than his or her e-mail address and opt-out preferences, or take any > steps other than sending a reply e-mail message or visiting a single Internet > Web page to opt out of receiving future e-mail from a sender." > > It's this: > > "or take any steps other than sending a reply e-mail message or visiting a > single Internet Web page to opt out of receiving future e-mail from a sender" Thank you! -- "Are you pondering what I'm pondering?" "I think so, Brain, but don't you need a swimming pool to play Marco Polo?"
Re: Technically not spam
Personally, I mark and categorize them as SPAM, IF they do not have 1-2 clicks unsubscribing. Then they are spam. 99% of the times these are senders who opt you in automatically to few lists without double opt-in whilst never giving you a choice of what to ask for, or even when they do, they do not abide by it. If they are not decent enough to at least let you get off their spam list with a 1-2 clicks, I'm gonna mark write rules against them, teach spamassassin and for some persistent ones, I'll even report them. (Most of Google Groups, Twitter and Facebook emails go to the same category coincidentally because even if the mail addresses do not exist, you can not get out of the list and can't report address as fake) -- M. Omer GOLGELI May 29, 2020 6:40 PM, "@lbutlr" wrote: > How do people deal with lists that a user subscribed to that require logging > in to an account to > unsubscribe? I seem to be seeing a lot more complaints from users who cannot > get off lists > (probably because they didn't realize they were creating an account for > getting multiple-mails per > day). > > Most legitimate mails have a simple unsubscribes list, but many online stores > seem to "forget" to > do this. > > I can't just blacklist the IPs because some people want these emails. > > -- > Stomach in! Chest out! on your marks! get set! GO! Now, now that > you're free, what are you gonna be? Who are you gonna see? And > where, where will you go, and how will you know you didn't get it > all wrong?
Re: Technically not spam
On 2020-05-29 17:40, @lbutlr wrote: I can't just blacklist the IPs because some people want these emails. http://squirrelmail.org/ have support for list-* headers round-cube and others web-mail missing it, oh dear is software from 2011 still stable ?
RE: Technically not spam
@lbutlr wrote: > How do people deal with lists that a user subscribed to that require > logging in to an account to unsubscribe? I seem to be seeing a lot > more complaints from users who cannot get off lists (probably because > they didn't realize they were creating an account for getting > multiple-mails per day). > > Most legitimate mails have a simple unsubscribes list, but many > online stores seem to "forget" to do this. > > I can't just blacklist the IPs because some people want these emails. You don't mention your MTA but I have to believe all have the ability to handle a from->to blacklist. I know that if you use MailScanner it can also be done there, if you use MailWatch For MailScanner it can be done there by the user themselves. Our users can login to their accounts and add an email address to their personal blacklist so everyone can receive emails from a particular address except them. Where and how you inject this into the delivery would depend on the MTA or backend you are using.
Re: Technically not spam
> Really? Does it specific that the user dodoesn’t have to be logged in to the > site? > > Do you have the law handy, I'd like to add it to some boilerplate. It was part of the FTC's 2008 update to CAN-SPAM, using their rulemaking authority, so it's not directly in the text of the original CAN-SPAM (which was brought online in 2003). What the FTC said in that update in 2008 is: "an e-mail recipient cannot be required to pay a fee, provide information other than his or her e-mail address and opt-out preferences, or take any steps other than sending a reply e-mail message or visiting a single Internet Web page to opt out of receiving future e-mail from a sender." It's this: "or take any steps other than sending a reply e-mail message or visiting a single Internet Web page to opt out of receiving future e-mail from a sender" that creates the one-step rule. Having to visit a page, and then enter a password, and then opt-out is 3 steps. The somewhat plain English explanation of this and the other new 2008 rules/clarifications is here: https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2008/05/ftc-approves-new-rule-provision-under-can-spam-act The more in-depth version is here: https://www.ftc.gov/sites/default/files/documents/federal_register_notices/definitions-and-implementation-under-can-spam-act-16-cfr-part-316/080521canspamact.pdf Anne -- Anne P. Mitchell, Esq. Dean of Cyberlaw & Cybersecurity, Lincoln Law School CEO, SuretyMail Email Reputation Certification Advisor, Governor's Innovation Response Team Task Force Author: Section 6 of the CAN-SPAM Act of 2003 (the Federal anti-spam law) Legislative Consultant, GDPR, CCPA (CA) & CCDPA (CO) Compliance Consultant Board of Directors, Denver Internet Exchange Former Counsel: Mail Abuse Prevention System (MAPS)
Re: Technically not spam
On 29 May 2020, at 10:16, Anne P. Mitchell, Esq. wrote: >> Probably not, but the user doesn't care, just wants the mail gone and to >> stop showing up. Telling them to go to the site, jump through password >> recovery hoop and then unsubscribe (which on some sites is quite difficult, >> as you will be signed up for 5 or 6 different mailings, each of which you >> have to seek out individually) is … well, not going to work with many users, >> especially the less technical. > > Not to mention that it is a violation of Federal law. Federal law requires a > "one-step" unsubscribe method. Really? Does it specific that the user dodoesn’t have to be logged in to the site? Do you have the law handy, I'd like to add it to some boilerplate. -- "The person, be it gentleman or lady, who has not pleasure in a good novel, must be intolerably stupid".
Re: Technically not spam
> Probably not, but the user doesn't care, just wants the mail gone and to stop > showing up. Telling them to go to the site, jump through password recovery > hoop and then unsubscribe (which on some sites is quite difficult, as you > will be signed up for 5 or 6 different mailings, each of which you have to > seek out individually) is … well, not going to work with many users, > especially the less technical. Not to mention that it is a violation of Federal law. Federal law requires a "one-step" unsubscribe method. Anne -- Anne P. Mitchell, Esq. Dean of Cyberlaw & Cybersecurity, Lincoln Law School CEO, SuretyMail Email Reputation Certification Advisor, Governor's Innovation Response Team Task Force Author: Section 6 of the CAN-SPAM Act of 2003 (the Federal anti-spam law) Legislative Consultant, GDPR, CCPA (CA) & CCDPA (CO) Compliance Consultant Board of Directors, Denver Internet Exchange Former Counsel: Mail Abuse Prevention System (MAPS)
Re: Technically not spam
On 29 May 2020, at 09:51, Antony Stone wrote: > On Friday 29 May 2020 at 17:40:42, @lbutlr wrote: >> How do people deal with lists that a user subscribed to that require >> logging in to an account to unsubscribe? > > Well, as you say in your Subject, this isn't spam; it's just email that the > user asked for but has decided they no longer want. "Asked for" may be a bit strong. >> Most legitimate mails have a simple unsubscribes list, but many online >> stores seem to "forget" to do this. > > Surely they do not forget to have a "forgot my password" option, though? Probably not, but the user doesn't care, just wants the mail gone and to stop showing up. Telling them to go to the site, jump through password recovery hoop and then unsubscribe (which on some sites is quite difficult, as you will be signed up for 5 or 6 different mailings, each of which you have to seek out individually) is … well, not going to work with many users, especially the less technical. >> I can't just blacklist the IPs because some people want these emails. > > My opinion is: it's not your (as email admin) problem - it's the user's > problem. They signed up for it; they can sign out of it. If they no longer > know their password, they can use the "forgot password" mechanism to get back > in again, and turn off the emails they no longer want. That may work in a corporate environment where the users can't really get mad at you for not fixing it. > Basically, I don't think this is a problem you need to try to solve, because > it's something the users did themselves - it's not like some miscreant has > discovered their email address and is sending stuff they *really* don't want > to > see (and is probably sending to several other of your users too) - that you > can block, but this is genuine email which the user signed up for, and is > responsible for signing out of. Well, "genuine" and "signed up" are *technically* correct, but in many cases only technically. "We will snd you emails about your order and future orders" seems like something you want, until you get 4 or 5 emails a day every day from them, exactly one of which was about your order. -- 'Can't argue with the truth, sir.' 'In my experience, Vimes, you can argue with anything.'
Re: Technically not spam
On Friday 29 May 2020 at 17:40:42, @lbutlr wrote: > How do people deal with lists that a user subscribed to that require > logging in to an account to unsubscribe? Well, as you say in your Subject, this isn't spam; it's just email that the user asked for but has decided they no longer want. > Most legitimate mails have a simple unsubscribes list, but many online > stores seem to "forget" to do this. Surely they do not forget to have a "forgot my password" option, though? > I can't just blacklist the IPs because some people want these emails. My opinion is: it's not your (as email admin) problem - it's the user's problem. They signed up for it; they can sign out of it. If they no longer know their password, they can use the "forgot password" mechanism to get back in again, and turn off the emails they no longer want. Basically, I don't think this is a problem you need to try to solve, because it's something the users did themselves - it's not like some miscreant has discovered their email address and is sending stuff they *really* don't want to see (and is probably sending to several other of your users too) - that you can block, but this is genuine email which the user signed up for, and is responsible for signing out of. Antony. -- 3 logicians walk into a bar. The bartender asks "Do you all want a drink?" The first logician says "I don't know." The second logician says "I don't know." The third logician says "Yes!" Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me.
Technically not spam
How do people deal with lists that a user subscribed to that require logging in to an account to unsubscribe? I seem to be seeing a lot more complaints from users who cannot get off lists (probably because they didn't realize they were creating an account for getting multiple-mails per day). Most legitimate mails have a simple unsubscribes list, but many online stores seem to "forget" to do this. I can't just blacklist the IPs because some people want these emails. -- Stomach in! Chest out! on your marks! get set! GO! Now, now that you're free, what are you gonna be? Who are you gonna see? And where, where will you go, and how will you know you didn't get it all wrong?
Re: Why does sa-compile access the bayes db?
On 2020-05-28 15:32, Bert Van de Poel wrote: Almost all of the email we process are forwarders. It doesn't really make sense for us to do a non-global bayes db. The large majority of email we process is also for a uniform group: student organizations at our local university. On 28.05.20 21:05, Benny Pedersen wrote: does not matter if bayes database have no write access missing write access can lead to warning or error messages too. Luckily this problem is solved now as reported by OP. -- Matus UHLAR - fantomas, uh...@fantomas.sk ; http://www.fantomas.sk/ Warning: I wish NOT to receive e-mail advertising to this address. Varovanie: na tuto adresu chcem NEDOSTAVAT akukolvek reklamnu postu. WinError #9: Out of error messages.
