Moving to Subversion for PL-SQL development
First of all let me tell you that I don't know much of how PL-SQL development works so I might say something really obvious to you or more likely just wrong. Please forgive me. I have a team that uses StarTeam as their VCS and we are now working on moving the project to Subversion. We are planning to use an importer for the initial load of the repository which seems to do what they want (I'm not looking after that part). I have a problem though with their releasing process. As I understand it, a major release is formed by all the packages and scripts, plus some table initialisation and sometime some data (I presume for defaults and stuff like that). Minor releases are done with patches which included only the packages that have changed from the previous patch. So, if I want 5.4.0 (major release), I get everything. I unpack the kit, install it, run it, whatever it take and I'm done. If I am already on 5.4.0 and I want 5.4.3 (a minor release) I will be sent 3 patches: to 5.4.1, then 5.4.2 and finally 5.4.3. Apparently I just need to unzip them and I'm done. Now, I might not be clear in the above process, so if someone with more experience with PL-SQL development and release wants to correct me, please do. I know there isn't one way to do things, but it's more likely that I understood wrong than we are doing it in a special way. Anyway, if I am right, I'm struggling to come up with a process using Subversion. It seems they do not want to tag everything in trunk because that would be like a major release (apparently it would include those table and data things). Maybe we could re-organised the code to separate the packages from the data and then we could tag the packages, which is more what they want. And this way, to go to 5.4.3 I won't need 5.4.1 and 5.4.2 at all, which in my opinion is even better. In the end what I am looking for with this email is some advice on how to proceed from people with more experience than me in projects using PL-SQL. Thanks Giulio Troccoli Linedata Limited Registered Office: 85 Gracechurch St., London, EC3V 0AA Registered in England and Wales No 3475006 VAT Reg No 710 3140 03
RES: Moving to Subversion for PL-SQL development
Hi Giulio, I'm curious about how you manage your PL/SQL development and identify packages and its versions and how do you manage concurrency. Until were I know Oracle won't manage concurrency when two developers edit the same package and once broke, the entire package stop working. I used, in a past project, to ask the team to save packages as text files in the repository and lock them to signalize someone is working on it. The live package being edited should be edited with a different name like package_name_plus_developers_user_name so that the package won't be broken for other developers. Once the developer finished to edit the package and make his own tests he would increase its version number (a simple comment in the package interface and body), write a small changelog as a comment, submit it to the repository, release de lock, update package with its real name and delete the temporary one. Sounds a little troublesome, but I couldn't think of a better process. Later I included a version function inside each package so I could check packages versions using an sql script. It seems they do not want to tag everything in trunk because that would be like a major release (apparently it would include those table and data things). Maybe we could re-organised the code to separate the packages from the data and then we could tag the packages, which is more what they want. Yes, you can have a BTT (branch, tags, trunk) structure for the database DDL including packages, another BTT for documentation and another for source code and manage their evolution separately if it fits better to your team. Instead of one big configuration item now you have 3 to care about. The database definition versions can have patches to update a live database from version a to version b. But anyway you will need to build your high level configuration item, which will represent your entire software package including database, code, documentation etc in its specific compatible version. This set, you can release software. Your installer can check each configuration item version to decide what to do (database version updates, documentation version). There are things that can be just deleted and overwritten (like binaries and help), but database will usually need to be patched. Having the database and plsql code as an independent configuration item sounds good to me. I'm not sure I'm helping... lol Luiz Guilherme M. Kimel -Mensagem original- De: Giulio Troccoli [mailto:giulio.trocc...@uk.linedata.com] Enviada em: sexta-feira, 29 de outubro de 2010 10:11 Para: users@subversion.apache.org Assunto: Moving to Subversion for PL-SQL development First of all let me tell you that I don't know much of how PL-SQL development works so I might say something really obvious to you or more likely just wrong. Please forgive me. I have a team that uses StarTeam as their VCS and we are now working on moving the project to Subversion. We are planning to use an importer for the initial load of the repository which seems to do what they want (I'm not looking after that part). I have a problem though with their releasing process. As I understand it, a major release is formed by all the packages and scripts, plus some table initialisation and sometime some data (I presume for defaults and stuff like that). Minor releases are done with patches which included only the packages that have changed from the previous patch. So, if I want 5.4.0 (major release), I get everything. I unpack the kit, install it, run it, whatever it take and I'm done. If I am already on 5.4.0 and I want 5.4.3 (a minor release) I will be sent 3 patches: to 5.4.1, then 5.4.2 and finally 5.4.3. Apparently I just need to unzip them and I'm done. Now, I might not be clear in the above process, so if someone with more experience with PL-SQL development and release wants to correct me, please do. I know there isn't one way to do things, but it's more likely that I understood wrong than we are doing it in a special way. Anyway, if I am right, I'm struggling to come up with a process using Subversion. It seems they do not want to tag everything in trunk because that would be like a major release (apparently it would include those table and data things). Maybe we could re-organised the code to separate the packages from the data and then we could tag the packages, which is more what they want. And this way, to go to 5.4.3 I won't need 5.4.1 and 5.4.2 at all, which in my opinion is even better. In the end what I am looking for with this email is some advice on how to proceed from people with more experience than me in projects using PL-SQL. Thanks Giulio Troccoli Linedata Limited Registered Office: 85 Gracechurch St., London, EC3V 0AA Registered in England and Wales No 3475006 VAT Reg No 710 3140 03
RE: Moving to Subversion for PL-SQL development
Giulio, I'm not sure if I correctly understood all the details of your questions but I have been using Subversion in an environment that mostly consists of C/C++, Java and an Oracle Database for quite some time and would be happy to share my experience. From my general perspective managing PL/SQL in a version control system is quite the same as managing any other sources. The real complex thing is how to manage and upgrade the different revisions/version of the database structure itself. In our environment each shippable (alpha, beta, production) version of our database structure (including PL/SQL) is tagged in Subversion. The tag contains a snapshot of the scripts (SQL and PL/SQL) needed to create a new database and additionally contains the appropriate update scripts (typically a set of SQL Scripts executed in SQL*Plus) needed to update the last revision to this one. For an update we then use a custom developed application that determines the source revision of the database and to witch revision to update, extracts all the needed tags and executes the appropriate update scripts in each tagged revision in the proper order. I hope this helps a little. Cheers, Dieter -Original Message- From: Giulio Troccoli [mailto:giulio.trocc...@uk.linedata.com] Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 15:11 To: users@subversion.apache.org Subject: Moving to Subversion for PL-SQL development First of all let me tell you that I don't know much of how PL-SQL development works so I might say something really obvious to you or more likely just wrong. Please forgive me. I have a team that uses StarTeam as their VCS and we are now working on moving the project to Subversion. We are planning to use an importer for the initial load of the repository which seems to do what they want (I'm not looking after that part). I have a problem though with their releasing process. As I understand it, a major release is formed by all the packages and scripts, plus some table initialisation and sometime some data (I presume for defaults and stuff like that). Minor releases are done with patches which included only the packages that have changed from the previous patch. So, if I want 5.4.0 (major release), I get everything. I unpack the kit, install it, run it, whatever it take and I'm done. If I am already on 5.4.0 and I want 5.4.3 (a minor release) I will be sent 3 patches: to 5.4.1, then 5.4.2 and finally 5.4.3. Apparently I just need to unzip them and I'm done. Now, I might not be clear in the above process, so if someone with more experience with PL-SQL development and release wants to correct me, please do. I know there isn't one way to do things, but it's more likely that I understood wrong than we are doing it in a special way. Anyway, if I am right, I'm struggling to come up with a process using Subversion. It seems they do not want to tag everything in trunk because that would be like a major release (apparently it would include those table and data things). Maybe we could re-organised the code to separate the packages from the data and then we could tag the packages, which is more what they want. And this way, to go to 5.4.3 I won't need 5.4.1 and 5.4.2 at all, which in my opinion is even better. In the end what I am looking for with this email is some advice on how to proceed from people with more experience than me in projects using PL-SQL. Thanks Giulio Troccoli Linedata Limited Registered Office: 85 Gracechurch St., London, EC3V 0AA Registered in England and Wales No 3475006 VAT Reg No 710 3140 03
Re: Moving to Subversion for PL-SQL development
On 10/29/2010 1:06 PM, Dieter Oberkofler wrote: Giulio, I'm not sure if I correctly understood all the details of your questions but I have been using Subversion in an environment that mostly consists of C/C++, Java and an Oracle Database for quite some time and would be happy to share my experience. From my general perspective managing PL/SQL in a version control system is quite the same as managing any other sources. The real complex thing is how to manage and upgrade the different revisions/version of the database structure itself. In our environment each shippable (alpha, beta, production) version of our database structure (including PL/SQL) is tagged in Subversion. The tag contains a snapshot of the scripts (SQL and PL/SQL) needed to create a new database and additionally contains the appropriate update scripts (typically a set of SQL Scripts executed in SQL*Plus) needed to update the last revision to this one. For an update we then use a custom developed application that determines the source revision of the database and to witch revision to update, extracts all the needed tags and executes the appropriate update scripts in each tagged revision in the proper order. There's something called liquibase (http://www.liquibase.org) that is supposed to manage this for you. I don't know much about it other than that it is used by the OpenNMS project and run as an update step to fix schema changes between versions. -- Les Mikesell lesmikes...@gmail.com
RES: Moving to Subversion for PL-SQL development
Dieter, For an update we then use a custom developed application that determines the source revision of the database and to witch revision to update, extracts all the needed tags and executes the appropriate update scripts in each tagged revision in the proper order Sounds perfect! But how do you manage daily work on Oracle packages? Does your developers work in local Oracle instances or a shared development Oracle instance? Does your PL/SQL development tool integrates to SVN in some way? Could you describe it briefly? I'm interested in how you manage it. Thank you! -Mensagem original- De: Dieter Oberkofler [mailto:doberkofler.li...@gmail.com] Enviada em: sexta-feira, 29 de outubro de 2010 15:07 Para: 'Giulio Troccoli' Cc: users@subversion.apache.org Assunto: RE: Moving to Subversion for PL-SQL development Giulio, I'm not sure if I correctly understood all the details of your questions but I have been using Subversion in an environment that mostly consists of C/C++, Java and an Oracle Database for quite some time and would be happy to share my experience. From my general perspective managing PL/SQL in a version control system is quite the same as managing any other sources. The real complex thing is how to manage and upgrade the different revisions/version of the database structure itself. In our environment each shippable (alpha, beta, production) version of our database structure (including PL/SQL) is tagged in Subversion. The tag contains a snapshot of the scripts (SQL and PL/SQL) needed to create a new database and additionally contains the appropriate update scripts (typically a set of SQL Scripts executed in SQL*Plus) needed to update the last revision to this one. For an update we then use a custom developed application that determines the source revision of the database and to witch revision to update, extracts all the needed tags and executes the appropriate update scripts in each tagged revision in the proper order. I hope this helps a little. Cheers, Dieter -Original Message- From: Giulio Troccoli [mailto:giulio.trocc...@uk.linedata.com] Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 15:11 To: users@subversion.apache.org Subject: Moving to Subversion for PL-SQL development First of all let me tell you that I don't know much of how PL-SQL development works so I might say something really obvious to you or more likely just wrong. Please forgive me. I have a team that uses StarTeam as their VCS and we are now working on moving the project to Subversion. We are planning to use an importer for the initial load of the repository which seems to do what they want (I'm not looking after that part). I have a problem though with their releasing process. As I understand it, a major release is formed by all the packages and scripts, plus some table initialisation and sometime some data (I presume for defaults and stuff like that). Minor releases are done with patches which included only the packages that have changed from the previous patch. So, if I want 5.4.0 (major release), I get everything. I unpack the kit, install it, run it, whatever it take and I'm done. If I am already on 5.4.0 and I want 5.4.3 (a minor release) I will be sent 3 patches: to 5.4.1, then 5.4.2 and finally 5.4.3. Apparently I just need to unzip them and I'm done. Now, I might not be clear in the above process, so if someone with more experience with PL-SQL development and release wants to correct me, please do. I know there isn't one way to do things, but it's more likely that I understood wrong than we are doing it in a special way. Anyway, if I am right, I'm struggling to come up with a process using Subversion. It seems they do not want to tag everything in trunk because that would be like a major release (apparently it would include those table and data things). Maybe we could re-organised the code to separate the packages from the data and then we could tag the packages, which is more what they want. And this way, to go to 5.4.3 I won't need 5.4.1 and 5.4.2 at all, which in my opinion is even better. In the end what I am looking for with this email is some advice on how to proceed from people with more experience than me in projects using PL-SQL. Thanks Giulio Troccoli Linedata Limited Registered Office: 85 Gracechurch St., London, EC3V 0AA Registered in England and Wales No 3475006 VAT Reg No 710 3140 03
RES: Moving to Subversion for PL-SQL development
Wow! This sounds really very good. I will try it here! PS: OpenNMS also looks a very nice finding. Thank you! (twice) -Mensagem original- De: Les Mikesell [mailto:lesmikes...@gmail.com] Enviada em: sexta-feira, 29 de outubro de 2010 15:19 Para: users@subversion.apache.org Assunto: Re: Moving to Subversion for PL-SQL development There's something called liquibase (http://www.liquibase.org) that is supposed to manage this for you. I don't know much about it other than that it is used by the OpenNMS project and run as an update step to fix schema changes between versions. -- Les Mikesell lesmikes...@gmail.com
