Re: JumpStart v1.6 - for Tapestry 4.1.2
Hi Renat, I should have re-read that thread sooner - you are quite right, EJB 3 doesn't solve that problem at all. Regards, Geoff On 04/08/2007, at 12:54 AM, Renat Zubairov wrote: BTW Could you, Geoff, comment on how EJB 3 solve Hibernate detached object multi-thread access problem? I didn't got your point in this case. Renat On 03/08/07, Geoff Callender [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Kalle, I guess my starting point is that I really like the discipline of building a business facade for my system ie. a layer that says what the system can do for you, irrespective of UIs. So then the question for me is where to put that layer. Since EJB3 arrived, I've opted to put the business layer in a container because: - the configuration is almost nil - the transaction boundary is clear and usually you have to do nothing. - you get remoting for free. - you get JTA (transactions across multiple resources) for free. - you get declarative security for free - you get basic AOP for free - the DAO pattern disappears - I treat each session bean as a business service that manipulates entities directly. DAOs came into existence to hide the persistence details. but now JPA does that for you. No DAOs means one less layer of plumbing. - the old concern of creating masses of DTOs that mimic your domain model is gone, thanks to detached entities. - session beans get their own thread, so you don't get complicated problems like http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.java.tapestry.user/49915/ focus=50023 - you can turn a session bean into a web service with ease I'm sure there's more that I can't think of right now. The only downside I've come across is that testing relies on the container running, but it looks like there are solutions to that just around the corner. HTH Geoff On 03/08/2007, at 1:27 PM, Kalle Korhonen wrote: Hey Geoff, could you comment on the reasons why you require an J2EE container. Is it just so that you don't need to deal with initializing the EntityManager yourself or do you see other compelling benefits in using the container? I'm asking because while we use EJB3 Hibernate annotations in Trails ( trailsframework.org), we don't use an EntityManager at all (the work had started before EntityManager was born, much less the stand alone EntityManager spec finalized), but we've been thinking of moving to using it as we start working on supporting transaction management patterns other than session-per-request. Kalle On 7/25/07, Geoff Callender [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Naz, Is it possible for you to put some tips to use tomcat with your JumpStart? Sorry but I don't have any plans for doing a Tomcat-only implementation, so the short answer is no. The reason is that JumpStart uses EJB3 for the business layer. That pretty much means an application server has to be involved. Today, the instructions cover just one app server: JBoss (note that JBoss has Tomcat embedded in it to handle the web layer, and the instructions cover this). In future, instructions are planned for other EJB3 implementations: Glassfish, JBoss MicroContainer, and perhaps one other app server (JOnAS? OC4J?). If someone else would like to do instructions then I'd really appreciate it, as my time for JumpStart is very limited. I'm sure it would benefit many in the Tapestry community. Regards, Geoff On 24/07/2007, at 10:51 AM, Bhuiyan, Nazmul wrote: Hi, Is it possible for you to put some tips to use tomcat with your JumpStart? Thanks Naz -Original Message- From: Geoff Callender [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 24 July 2007 2:18 a.m. To: Tapestry users Subject: JumpStart v1.6 - for Tapestry 4.1.2 Hi all, JumpStart v1.6.0 is now available. New features include: it works with Tapestry 4.1.2, it has a more Maven-like project structure, and it builds its exploded EAR file on the fly. You'll find it at the usual place: http://files.doublenegative.com.au/jumpstart JumpStart v1.5.0 has also been released today for those wanting to stay with Tapestry 4.0.2 but get the other new features. Comments and suggestions welcomed. Be brutal or helpful - I don't care which, because it all helps to make this stuff more useful. Cheers, Geoff Callender -- -- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- -- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Best regards, Renat Zubairov
Re: JumpStart v1.6 - for Tapestry 4.1.2
Hello Geoff, We had the same trade offs for our system but still we prefer Hivemind implementation of DI over EJB3 implementation, because of the following reasons: 1. DI from Hivemind has better integration and less infrastructure requirements - jetty much simpler than full blown EJB container. 2. Hivemind configuration capabilities with extension points are far better than any standard container provided options. 3. Simpler packaging and maven project structure. Main drawback is offcourse XML files, but we hope it will be fixed with T5 IOC and/or HM2 Renat On 03/08/07, Geoff Callender [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Kalle, I guess my starting point is that I really like the discipline of building a business facade for my system ie. a layer that says what the system can do for you, irrespective of UIs. So then the question for me is where to put that layer. Since EJB3 arrived, I've opted to put the business layer in a container because: - the configuration is almost nil - the transaction boundary is clear and usually you have to do nothing. - you get remoting for free. - you get JTA (transactions across multiple resources) for free. - you get declarative security for free - you get basic AOP for free - the DAO pattern disappears - I treat each session bean as a business service that manipulates entities directly. DAOs came into existence to hide the persistence details. but now JPA does that for you. No DAOs means one less layer of plumbing. - the old concern of creating masses of DTOs that mimic your domain model is gone, thanks to detached entities. - session beans get their own thread, so you don't get complicated problems like http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.java.tapestry.user/49915/focus=50023 - you can turn a session bean into a web service with ease I'm sure there's more that I can't think of right now. The only downside I've come across is that testing relies on the container running, but it looks like there are solutions to that just around the corner. HTH Geoff On 03/08/2007, at 1:27 PM, Kalle Korhonen wrote: Hey Geoff, could you comment on the reasons why you require an J2EE container. Is it just so that you don't need to deal with initializing the EntityManager yourself or do you see other compelling benefits in using the container? I'm asking because while we use EJB3 Hibernate annotations in Trails ( trailsframework.org), we don't use an EntityManager at all (the work had started before EntityManager was born, much less the stand alone EntityManager spec finalized), but we've been thinking of moving to using it as we start working on supporting transaction management patterns other than session-per-request. Kalle On 7/25/07, Geoff Callender [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Naz, Is it possible for you to put some tips to use tomcat with your JumpStart? Sorry but I don't have any plans for doing a Tomcat-only implementation, so the short answer is no. The reason is that JumpStart uses EJB3 for the business layer. That pretty much means an application server has to be involved. Today, the instructions cover just one app server: JBoss (note that JBoss has Tomcat embedded in it to handle the web layer, and the instructions cover this). In future, instructions are planned for other EJB3 implementations: Glassfish, JBoss MicroContainer, and perhaps one other app server (JOnAS? OC4J?). If someone else would like to do instructions then I'd really appreciate it, as my time for JumpStart is very limited. I'm sure it would benefit many in the Tapestry community. Regards, Geoff On 24/07/2007, at 10:51 AM, Bhuiyan, Nazmul wrote: Hi, Is it possible for you to put some tips to use tomcat with your JumpStart? Thanks Naz -Original Message- From: Geoff Callender [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 24 July 2007 2:18 a.m. To: Tapestry users Subject: JumpStart v1.6 - for Tapestry 4.1.2 Hi all, JumpStart v1.6.0 is now available. New features include: it works with Tapestry 4.1.2, it has a more Maven-like project structure, and it builds its exploded EAR file on the fly. You'll find it at the usual place: http://files.doublenegative.com.au/jumpstart JumpStart v1.5.0 has also been released today for those wanting to stay with Tapestry 4.0.2 but get the other new features. Comments and suggestions welcomed. Be brutal or helpful - I don't care which, because it all helps to make this stuff more useful. Cheers, Geoff Callender - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: JumpStart v1.6 - for Tapestry 4.1.2
BTW Could you, Geoff, comment on how EJB 3 solve Hibernate detached object multi-thread access problem? I didn't got your point in this case. Renat On 03/08/07, Geoff Callender [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Kalle, I guess my starting point is that I really like the discipline of building a business facade for my system ie. a layer that says what the system can do for you, irrespective of UIs. So then the question for me is where to put that layer. Since EJB3 arrived, I've opted to put the business layer in a container because: - the configuration is almost nil - the transaction boundary is clear and usually you have to do nothing. - you get remoting for free. - you get JTA (transactions across multiple resources) for free. - you get declarative security for free - you get basic AOP for free - the DAO pattern disappears - I treat each session bean as a business service that manipulates entities directly. DAOs came into existence to hide the persistence details. but now JPA does that for you. No DAOs means one less layer of plumbing. - the old concern of creating masses of DTOs that mimic your domain model is gone, thanks to detached entities. - session beans get their own thread, so you don't get complicated problems like http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.java.tapestry.user/49915/focus=50023 - you can turn a session bean into a web service with ease I'm sure there's more that I can't think of right now. The only downside I've come across is that testing relies on the container running, but it looks like there are solutions to that just around the corner. HTH Geoff On 03/08/2007, at 1:27 PM, Kalle Korhonen wrote: Hey Geoff, could you comment on the reasons why you require an J2EE container. Is it just so that you don't need to deal with initializing the EntityManager yourself or do you see other compelling benefits in using the container? I'm asking because while we use EJB3 Hibernate annotations in Trails ( trailsframework.org), we don't use an EntityManager at all (the work had started before EntityManager was born, much less the stand alone EntityManager spec finalized), but we've been thinking of moving to using it as we start working on supporting transaction management patterns other than session-per-request. Kalle On 7/25/07, Geoff Callender [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Naz, Is it possible for you to put some tips to use tomcat with your JumpStart? Sorry but I don't have any plans for doing a Tomcat-only implementation, so the short answer is no. The reason is that JumpStart uses EJB3 for the business layer. That pretty much means an application server has to be involved. Today, the instructions cover just one app server: JBoss (note that JBoss has Tomcat embedded in it to handle the web layer, and the instructions cover this). In future, instructions are planned for other EJB3 implementations: Glassfish, JBoss MicroContainer, and perhaps one other app server (JOnAS? OC4J?). If someone else would like to do instructions then I'd really appreciate it, as my time for JumpStart is very limited. I'm sure it would benefit many in the Tapestry community. Regards, Geoff On 24/07/2007, at 10:51 AM, Bhuiyan, Nazmul wrote: Hi, Is it possible for you to put some tips to use tomcat with your JumpStart? Thanks Naz -Original Message- From: Geoff Callender [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 24 July 2007 2:18 a.m. To: Tapestry users Subject: JumpStart v1.6 - for Tapestry 4.1.2 Hi all, JumpStart v1.6.0 is now available. New features include: it works with Tapestry 4.1.2, it has a more Maven-like project structure, and it builds its exploded EAR file on the fly. You'll find it at the usual place: http://files.doublenegative.com.au/jumpstart JumpStart v1.5.0 has also been released today for those wanting to stay with Tapestry 4.0.2 but get the other new features. Comments and suggestions welcomed. Be brutal or helpful - I don't care which, because it all helps to make this stuff more useful. Cheers, Geoff Callender - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Best regards, Renat Zubairov
Re: JumpStart v1.6 - for Tapestry 4.1.2
Hi Kalle, I guess my starting point is that I really like the discipline of building a business facade for my system ie. a layer that says what the system can do for you, irrespective of UIs. So then the question for me is where to put that layer. Since EJB3 arrived, I've opted to put the business layer in a container because: - the configuration is almost nil - the transaction boundary is clear and usually you have to do nothing. - you get remoting for free. - you get JTA (transactions across multiple resources) for free. - you get declarative security for free - you get basic AOP for free - the DAO pattern disappears - I treat each session bean as a business service that manipulates entities directly. DAOs came into existence to hide the persistence details. but now JPA does that for you. No DAOs means one less layer of plumbing. - the old concern of creating masses of DTOs that mimic your domain model is gone, thanks to detached entities. - session beans get their own thread, so you don't get complicated problems like http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.java.tapestry.user/49915/focus=50023 - you can turn a session bean into a web service with ease I'm sure there's more that I can't think of right now. The only downside I've come across is that testing relies on the container running, but it looks like there are solutions to that just around the corner. HTH Geoff On 03/08/2007, at 1:27 PM, Kalle Korhonen wrote: Hey Geoff, could you comment on the reasons why you require an J2EE container. Is it just so that you don't need to deal with initializing the EntityManager yourself or do you see other compelling benefits in using the container? I'm asking because while we use EJB3 Hibernate annotations in Trails ( trailsframework.org), we don't use an EntityManager at all (the work had started before EntityManager was born, much less the stand alone EntityManager spec finalized), but we've been thinking of moving to using it as we start working on supporting transaction management patterns other than session-per-request. Kalle On 7/25/07, Geoff Callender [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Naz, Is it possible for you to put some tips to use tomcat with your JumpStart? Sorry but I don't have any plans for doing a Tomcat-only implementation, so the short answer is no. The reason is that JumpStart uses EJB3 for the business layer. That pretty much means an application server has to be involved. Today, the instructions cover just one app server: JBoss (note that JBoss has Tomcat embedded in it to handle the web layer, and the instructions cover this). In future, instructions are planned for other EJB3 implementations: Glassfish, JBoss MicroContainer, and perhaps one other app server (JOnAS? OC4J?). If someone else would like to do instructions then I'd really appreciate it, as my time for JumpStart is very limited. I'm sure it would benefit many in the Tapestry community. Regards, Geoff On 24/07/2007, at 10:51 AM, Bhuiyan, Nazmul wrote: Hi, Is it possible for you to put some tips to use tomcat with your JumpStart? Thanks Naz -Original Message- From: Geoff Callender [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 24 July 2007 2:18 a.m. To: Tapestry users Subject: JumpStart v1.6 - for Tapestry 4.1.2 Hi all, JumpStart v1.6.0 is now available. New features include: it works with Tapestry 4.1.2, it has a more Maven-like project structure, and it builds its exploded EAR file on the fly. You'll find it at the usual place: http://files.doublenegative.com.au/jumpstart JumpStart v1.5.0 has also been released today for those wanting to stay with Tapestry 4.0.2 but get the other new features. Comments and suggestions welcomed. Be brutal or helpful - I don't care which, because it all helps to make this stuff more useful. Cheers, Geoff Callender - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: JumpStart v1.6 - for Tapestry 4.1.2
On Fri, 03 Aug 2007 11:11:23 -0300, Renat Zubairov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Main drawback is offcourse XML files, but we hope it will be fixed with T5 IOC and/or HM2 Tapestry-IoC requires no XML files and is very easy and powerful. Most people here already discovered the pleasure of Tapestry 5 web framework, but have not yet discovered Tapestry IoC. ;) I'm even using Tapestry-IoC in a Tapestry 4.1 project . . . :) Thiago - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: JumpStart v1.6 - for Tapestry 4.1.2
Hey Geoff, could you comment on the reasons why you require an J2EE container. Is it just so that you don't need to deal with initializing the EntityManager yourself or do you see other compelling benefits in using the container? I'm asking because while we use EJB3 Hibernate annotations in Trails ( trailsframework.org), we don't use an EntityManager at all (the work had started before EntityManager was born, much less the stand alone EntityManager spec finalized), but we've been thinking of moving to using it as we start working on supporting transaction management patterns other than session-per-request. Kalle On 7/25/07, Geoff Callender [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Naz, Is it possible for you to put some tips to use tomcat with your JumpStart? Sorry but I don't have any plans for doing a Tomcat-only implementation, so the short answer is no. The reason is that JumpStart uses EJB3 for the business layer. That pretty much means an application server has to be involved. Today, the instructions cover just one app server: JBoss (note that JBoss has Tomcat embedded in it to handle the web layer, and the instructions cover this). In future, instructions are planned for other EJB3 implementations: Glassfish, JBoss MicroContainer, and perhaps one other app server (JOnAS? OC4J?). If someone else would like to do instructions then I'd really appreciate it, as my time for JumpStart is very limited. I'm sure it would benefit many in the Tapestry community. Regards, Geoff On 24/07/2007, at 10:51 AM, Bhuiyan, Nazmul wrote: Hi, Is it possible for you to put some tips to use tomcat with your JumpStart? Thanks Naz -Original Message- From: Geoff Callender [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 24 July 2007 2:18 a.m. To: Tapestry users Subject: JumpStart v1.6 - for Tapestry 4.1.2 Hi all, JumpStart v1.6.0 is now available. New features include: it works with Tapestry 4.1.2, it has a more Maven-like project structure, and it builds its exploded EAR file on the fly. You'll find it at the usual place: http://files.doublenegative.com.au/jumpstart JumpStart v1.5.0 has also been released today for those wanting to stay with Tapestry 4.0.2 but get the other new features. Comments and suggestions welcomed. Be brutal or helpful - I don't care which, because it all helps to make this stuff more useful. Cheers, Geoff Callender - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: JumpStart v1.6 - for Tapestry 4.1.2
Hi Naz, Is it possible for you to put some tips to use tomcat with your JumpStart? Sorry but I don't have any plans for doing a Tomcat-only implementation, so the short answer is no. The reason is that JumpStart uses EJB3 for the business layer. That pretty much means an application server has to be involved. Today, the instructions cover just one app server: JBoss (note that JBoss has Tomcat embedded in it to handle the web layer, and the instructions cover this). In future, instructions are planned for other EJB3 implementations: Glassfish, JBoss MicroContainer, and perhaps one other app server (JOnAS? OC4J?). If someone else would like to do instructions then I'd really appreciate it, as my time for JumpStart is very limited. I'm sure it would benefit many in the Tapestry community. Regards, Geoff On 24/07/2007, at 10:51 AM, Bhuiyan, Nazmul wrote: Hi, Is it possible for you to put some tips to use tomcat with your JumpStart? Thanks Naz -Original Message- From: Geoff Callender [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 24 July 2007 2:18 a.m. To: Tapestry users Subject: JumpStart v1.6 - for Tapestry 4.1.2 Hi all, JumpStart v1.6.0 is now available. New features include: it works with Tapestry 4.1.2, it has a more Maven-like project structure, and it builds its exploded EAR file on the fly. You'll find it at the usual place: http://files.doublenegative.com.au/jumpstart JumpStart v1.5.0 has also been released today for those wanting to stay with Tapestry 4.0.2 but get the other new features. Comments and suggestions welcomed. Be brutal or helpful - I don't care which, because it all helps to make this stuff more useful. Cheers, Geoff Callender - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: JumpStart v1.6 - for Tapestry 4.1.2
Hi, Is it possible for you to put some tips to use tomcat with your JumpStart? Thanks Naz -Original Message- From: Geoff Callender [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 24 July 2007 2:18 a.m. To: Tapestry users Subject: JumpStart v1.6 - for Tapestry 4.1.2 Hi all, JumpStart v1.6.0 is now available. New features include: it works with Tapestry 4.1.2, it has a more Maven-like project structure, and it builds its exploded EAR file on the fly. You'll find it at the usual place: http://files.doublenegative.com.au/jumpstart JumpStart v1.5.0 has also been released today for those wanting to stay with Tapestry 4.0.2 but get the other new features. Comments and suggestions welcomed. Be brutal or helpful - I don't care which, because it all helps to make this stuff more useful. Cheers, Geoff Callender - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
