Re: need "please wait" notice for slow loading pages
It looks as you add the content to it's body. An example is here: http://www.resa-air.com/a5/be Len On Thu, 2006-12-07 at 20:09 +0530, Karthik N wrote: > len, > > on your blog can you please post a screen shot of how the "Please wait" > component display looks? > > Thanks
Re: need "please wait" notice for slow loading pages
len, on your blog can you please post a screen shot of how the "Please wait" component display looks? Thanks
Re: Re: Re: need "please wait" notice for slow loading pages
if you can get the first bytes of the second (slow) page loaded you can start that page with the html for a div to appear in the centre of the screen in front of the "real" content. The last thing on the page should be the html which moves this either away to the left (negative coordinates) of the screen or "to the back" behind the real content. this e.g works in ie (but not f-fox, that is left as an exercise for the reader) : http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd";> http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml";> Untitled Document Please Wait http://www.direct.gov.uk/assetRoot/04/01/85/19/04018519.jpg"; width="100" height="100" /> http://www.arroyofest.org/images/T-shirt%20back.JPG"; width="100" height="100" /> http://www.direct.gov.uk/assetRoot/04/01/85/19/04018519.jpg"; width="100" height="100" /> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 07/12/2006 12:17:16: > On 12/7/06, Fred Janon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >>It's probably more typing than my solution because of the number of > > onClick handlers I'll have to add > > > > Not sure if you can do it in your context, but instead of calling the JS > > function in all buttons onClick, you could just call it in the FORM > > onSubmit... > > > > > > Unfortunately, my problem is that I need it on plain links as well as > in forms. Nothing I can't fix by just assigning a new class to any > link that needs the handler and then adding the handler via a > javascript method which iterates over all elements with the > 'pleaseWait' class. > > --sam > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > *** The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient please delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limited. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: Re: need "please wait" notice for slow loading pages
Unfortunately, my problem is that I need it on plain links as well as in forms. Nothing I can't fix by just assigning a new class to any link that needs the handler and then adding the handler via a javascript method which iterates over all elements with the 'pleaseWait' class. --sam Sounds like the 'best' solution in your case...
Re: Re: need "please wait" notice for slow loading pages
To avoid making multiple changes you could wrap your @Submit component into a @CustomSubmit which passes all informal parameters and add's the onClick and then overwritting the @Submit with @CustomSubmit in the .application (worked in 3.* don't know about 4.*) Len www.len.ro On Thu, 2006-12-07 at 20:56 +0900, Fred Janon wrote: > >>It's probably more typing than my solution because of the number of > onClick handlers I'll have to add > > Not sure if you can do it in your context, but instead of calling the JS > function in all buttons onClick, you could just call it in the FORM > onSubmit...
Re: Re: Re: need "please wait" notice for slow loading pages
On 12/7/06, Fred Janon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>It's probably more typing than my solution because of the number of onClick handlers I'll have to add Not sure if you can do it in your context, but instead of calling the JS function in all buttons onClick, you could just call it in the FORM onSubmit... Unfortunately, my problem is that I need it on plain links as well as in forms. Nothing I can't fix by just assigning a new class to any link that needs the handler and then adding the handler via a javascript method which iterates over all elements with the 'pleaseWait' class. --sam - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: need "please wait" notice for slow loading pages
On Thu, 2006-12-07 at 03:45 -0800, Sam Gendler wrote: > I thought about doing that, but I wasn't convinced I could rely on all > browsers leaving the page visible until it received content for the > next page. Have you used this in IE 6 and 7, Firefox 1.5 and 2, and > Safari 2 by any chance? If not, I guess I'll check it out. It's > probably more typing than my solution because of the number of onClick > handlers I'll have to add, but it is a lot simpler and less likely to > have side effects. Thanks. When I developed the site last year I tested it in Firefox 1.5, IE 6, and IE 5 (as the one installed at airline company at that moment). I think the only problem might arrise if the long waiting part is somewhere in a component. As far as I understand the process if the response takes some time to arrive then it's ok, if part of the page is rendered then a long wait occurs until the rest is fetched then it's not ok. I payed some attention to get into the first case. I did not got any complaints since then. Len www.len.ro > --sam > > > On 12/7/06, Marilen Corciovei <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Here it is: > > http://www.len.ro/work/articles/please-wait-tapestry-component/view > > > > hope it helps, > > Len > > > > On Thu, 2006-12-07 at 01:53 -0800, Stefan Esterer wrote: > > > > > Hi! > > > > > > thx for your helpful description! > > > if you cound create a little simple example it would be great. > > > > > > thx for your effort > > > stefan > > > > > > > > > Marilen Corciovei wrote: > > > > > > > > The concept is simple. You have 2 pages. The one from which you go and > > > > the one which is supposed to follow which is rather slow. The first page > > > > contains a hidden div which gets visible when the user submits the form. > > > > This div is the one which you see with the animated gif. When the slow > > > > page has finished it's load it will replace the first page. This is > > > > based on the fact that the browser will keep the old page until the new > > > > one is loaded. > > > > > > > > > > > listener="ognl:listeners.validateAction" > > > > value="message:validate" > > > > onClick="doWait(this, false);" > > > > /> > > > > > > > > The doWait just shows the hidden div/iframe. The only complicated part > > > > was to make the div/iframe about the combo boxes. If this is what you > > > > need I could create a working simple example. > > > > > > > > Len > > > > www.len.ro > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, 2006-12-07 at 01:24 -0800, Stefan Esterer wrote: > > > > > > > >> Hi.. > > > >> > > > >> and how did you get this working? > > > >> > > > >> thx > > > >> stefan > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> Marilen Corciovei wrote: > > > >> > > > > >> > I implemented something js based here: http://www.resa-air.com/a5/be > > > >> > while wanting for the flights results to come up. > > > >> > > > > >> > Len > > > >> > www.len.ro > > > >> > > > > >> > On Wed, 2006-12-06 at 13:07 -0800, Sam Gendler wrote: > > > >> > > > > >> >> Does anyone have a mechanism for displaying some kind of please wait > > > >> >> mechanism while waiting for a slow loading page to be rendered? I > > > >> >> can > > > >> >> think of a couple of potential solutions: > > > >> >> > > > >> >> 1. Submit form, have listener send to a please wait page which does > > > >> >> nothing but send another request which will actually load the page > > > >> >> in > > > >> >> question. The problems with this include pages that require lots of > > > >> >> data in the form submission. I'd have to stick it in the session or > > > >> >> throw it in a hidden form. If it is a lot of data, it could be > > > >> >> quite > > > >> >> slow. No control over when the browser stops displaying the > > > >> >> message - > > > >> >> usually first byte in. If there is network latency, that could > > > >> >> still > > > >> >> leave several seconds without the message in view. > > > >> >> > > > >> >> 2. If Tapestry supports it, I can render the header of the page, > > > >> >> including a div that says please wait, then flush to the browser > > > >> >> before initializing the model. At the end of the page, render some > > > >> >> js > > > >> >> that will hide the div. Only problem here is flushing before the > > > >> >> page > > > >> >> is completely rendered. Is this possible in Tapestry? > > > >> >> > > > >> >> Note: I cannot use an ajax update of the entire page and use the > > > >> >> effects available in an AjaxForm to render the message. At least, I > > > >> >> don't think I can. I haven't done an analysis of the pages in > > > >> >> question, but I'd really prefer top have my solution work on any > > > >> >> page, > > > >> >> rather than just on ajax-y ones. It would, however, be nice to > > > >> >> have a > > > >> >> solution which looks the same whether dong an ajax update (using > > > >> >> preEffect and effect) and when doing a full page reload after a > > > >> >> normal > > > >> >> POST. > > > >> >> > > > >> >> Thanks
Re: Re: need "please wait" notice for slow loading pages
It's probably more typing than my solution because of the number of onClick handlers I'll have to add Not sure if you can do it in your context, but instead of calling the JS function in all buttons onClick, you could just call it in the FORM onSubmit...
Re: Re: need "please wait" notice for slow loading pages
I thought about doing that, but I wasn't convinced I could rely on all browsers leaving the page visible until it received content for the next page. Have you used this in IE 6 and 7, Firefox 1.5 and 2, and Safari 2 by any chance? If not, I guess I'll check it out. It's probably more typing than my solution because of the number of onClick handlers I'll have to add, but it is a lot simpler and less likely to have side effects. Thanks. --sam On 12/7/06, Marilen Corciovei <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Here it is: http://www.len.ro/work/articles/please-wait-tapestry-component/view hope it helps, Len On Thu, 2006-12-07 at 01:53 -0800, Stefan Esterer wrote: > Hi! > > thx for your helpful description! > if you cound create a little simple example it would be great. > > thx for your effort > stefan > > > Marilen Corciovei wrote: > > > > The concept is simple. You have 2 pages. The one from which you go and > > the one which is supposed to follow which is rather slow. The first page > > contains a hidden div which gets visible when the user submits the form. > > This div is the one which you see with the animated gif. When the slow > > page has finished it's load it will replace the first page. This is > > based on the fact that the browser will keep the old page until the new > > one is loaded. > > > > > listener="ognl:listeners.validateAction" > > value="message:validate" > > onClick="doWait(this, false);" > > /> > > > > The doWait just shows the hidden div/iframe. The only complicated part > > was to make the div/iframe about the combo boxes. If this is what you > > need I could create a working simple example. > > > > Len > > www.len.ro > > > > > > On Thu, 2006-12-07 at 01:24 -0800, Stefan Esterer wrote: > > > >> Hi.. > >> > >> and how did you get this working? > >> > >> thx > >> stefan > >> > >> > >> Marilen Corciovei wrote: > >> > > >> > I implemented something js based here: http://www.resa-air.com/a5/be > >> > while wanting for the flights results to come up. > >> > > >> > Len > >> > www.len.ro > >> > > >> > On Wed, 2006-12-06 at 13:07 -0800, Sam Gendler wrote: > >> > > >> >> Does anyone have a mechanism for displaying some kind of please wait > >> >> mechanism while waiting for a slow loading page to be rendered? I can > >> >> think of a couple of potential solutions: > >> >> > >> >> 1. Submit form, have listener send to a please wait page which does > >> >> nothing but send another request which will actually load the page in > >> >> question. The problems with this include pages that require lots of > >> >> data in the form submission. I'd have to stick it in the session or > >> >> throw it in a hidden form. If it is a lot of data, it could be quite > >> >> slow. No control over when the browser stops displaying the message - > >> >> usually first byte in. If there is network latency, that could still > >> >> leave several seconds without the message in view. > >> >> > >> >> 2. If Tapestry supports it, I can render the header of the page, > >> >> including a div that says please wait, then flush to the browser > >> >> before initializing the model. At the end of the page, render some js > >> >> that will hide the div. Only problem here is flushing before the page > >> >> is completely rendered. Is this possible in Tapestry? > >> >> > >> >> Note: I cannot use an ajax update of the entire page and use the > >> >> effects available in an AjaxForm to render the message. At least, I > >> >> don't think I can. I haven't done an analysis of the pages in > >> >> question, but I'd really prefer top have my solution work on any page, > >> >> rather than just on ajax-y ones. It would, however, be nice to have a > >> >> solution which looks the same whether dong an ajax update (using > >> >> preEffect and effect) and when doing a full page reload after a normal > >> >> POST. > >> >> > >> >> Thanks > >> >> > >> >> --sam > >> >> > >> >> - > >> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> >> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: need "please wait" notice for slow loading pages
Here it is: http://www.len.ro/work/articles/please-wait-tapestry-component/view hope it helps, Len On Thu, 2006-12-07 at 01:53 -0800, Stefan Esterer wrote: > Hi! > > thx for your helpful description! > if you cound create a little simple example it would be great. > > thx for your effort > stefan > > > Marilen Corciovei wrote: > > > > The concept is simple. You have 2 pages. The one from which you go and > > the one which is supposed to follow which is rather slow. The first page > > contains a hidden div which gets visible when the user submits the form. > > This div is the one which you see with the animated gif. When the slow > > page has finished it's load it will replace the first page. This is > > based on the fact that the browser will keep the old page until the new > > one is loaded. > > > > > listener="ognl:listeners.validateAction" > > value="message:validate" > > onClick="doWait(this, false);" > > /> > > > > The doWait just shows the hidden div/iframe. The only complicated part > > was to make the div/iframe about the combo boxes. If this is what you > > need I could create a working simple example. > > > > Len > > www.len.ro > > > > > > On Thu, 2006-12-07 at 01:24 -0800, Stefan Esterer wrote: > > > >> Hi.. > >> > >> and how did you get this working? > >> > >> thx > >> stefan > >> > >> > >> Marilen Corciovei wrote: > >> > > >> > I implemented something js based here: http://www.resa-air.com/a5/be > >> > while wanting for the flights results to come up. > >> > > >> > Len > >> > www.len.ro > >> > > >> > On Wed, 2006-12-06 at 13:07 -0800, Sam Gendler wrote: > >> > > >> >> Does anyone have a mechanism for displaying some kind of please wait > >> >> mechanism while waiting for a slow loading page to be rendered? I can > >> >> think of a couple of potential solutions: > >> >> > >> >> 1. Submit form, have listener send to a please wait page which does > >> >> nothing but send another request which will actually load the page in > >> >> question. The problems with this include pages that require lots of > >> >> data in the form submission. I'd have to stick it in the session or > >> >> throw it in a hidden form. If it is a lot of data, it could be quite > >> >> slow. No control over when the browser stops displaying the message - > >> >> usually first byte in. If there is network latency, that could still > >> >> leave several seconds without the message in view. > >> >> > >> >> 2. If Tapestry supports it, I can render the header of the page, > >> >> including a div that says please wait, then flush to the browser > >> >> before initializing the model. At the end of the page, render some js > >> >> that will hide the div. Only problem here is flushing before the page > >> >> is completely rendered. Is this possible in Tapestry? > >> >> > >> >> Note: I cannot use an ajax update of the entire page and use the > >> >> effects available in an AjaxForm to render the message. At least, I > >> >> don't think I can. I haven't done an analysis of the pages in > >> >> question, but I'd really prefer top have my solution work on any page, > >> >> rather than just on ajax-y ones. It would, however, be nice to have a > >> >> solution which looks the same whether dong an ajax update (using > >> >> preEffect and effect) and when doing a full page reload after a normal > >> >> POST. > >> >> > >> >> Thanks > >> >> > >> >> --sam > >> >> > >> >> - > >> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> >> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > >
Re: need "please wait" notice for slow loading pages
Hi! thx for your helpful description! if you cound create a little simple example it would be great. thx for your effort stefan Marilen Corciovei wrote: > > The concept is simple. You have 2 pages. The one from which you go and > the one which is supposed to follow which is rather slow. The first page > contains a hidden div which gets visible when the user submits the form. > This div is the one which you see with the animated gif. When the slow > page has finished it's load it will replace the first page. This is > based on the fact that the browser will keep the old page until the new > one is loaded. > > listener="ognl:listeners.validateAction" > value="message:validate" > onClick="doWait(this, false);" > /> > > The doWait just shows the hidden div/iframe. The only complicated part > was to make the div/iframe about the combo boxes. If this is what you > need I could create a working simple example. > > Len > www.len.ro > > > On Thu, 2006-12-07 at 01:24 -0800, Stefan Esterer wrote: > >> Hi.. >> >> and how did you get this working? >> >> thx >> stefan >> >> >> Marilen Corciovei wrote: >> > >> > I implemented something js based here: http://www.resa-air.com/a5/be >> > while wanting for the flights results to come up. >> > >> > Len >> > www.len.ro >> > >> > On Wed, 2006-12-06 at 13:07 -0800, Sam Gendler wrote: >> > >> >> Does anyone have a mechanism for displaying some kind of please wait >> >> mechanism while waiting for a slow loading page to be rendered? I can >> >> think of a couple of potential solutions: >> >> >> >> 1. Submit form, have listener send to a please wait page which does >> >> nothing but send another request which will actually load the page in >> >> question. The problems with this include pages that require lots of >> >> data in the form submission. I'd have to stick it in the session or >> >> throw it in a hidden form. If it is a lot of data, it could be quite >> >> slow. No control over when the browser stops displaying the message - >> >> usually first byte in. If there is network latency, that could still >> >> leave several seconds without the message in view. >> >> >> >> 2. If Tapestry supports it, I can render the header of the page, >> >> including a div that says please wait, then flush to the browser >> >> before initializing the model. At the end of the page, render some js >> >> that will hide the div. Only problem here is flushing before the page >> >> is completely rendered. Is this possible in Tapestry? >> >> >> >> Note: I cannot use an ajax update of the entire page and use the >> >> effects available in an AjaxForm to render the message. At least, I >> >> don't think I can. I haven't done an analysis of the pages in >> >> question, but I'd really prefer top have my solution work on any page, >> >> rather than just on ajax-y ones. It would, however, be nice to have a >> >> solution which looks the same whether dong an ajax update (using >> >> preEffect and effect) and when doing a full page reload after a normal >> >> POST. >> >> >> >> Thanks >> >> >> >> --sam >> >> >> >> - >> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> >> > >> > >> > > -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/need-%22please-wait%22-notice-for-slow-loading-pages-tf2770707.html#a7736096 Sent from the Tapestry - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: need "please wait" notice for slow loading pages
The concept is simple. You have 2 pages. The one from which you go and the one which is supposed to follow which is rather slow. The first page contains a hidden div which gets visible when the user submits the form. This div is the one which you see with the animated gif. When the slow page has finished it's load it will replace the first page. This is based on the fact that the browser will keep the old page until the new one is loaded. The doWait just shows the hidden div/iframe. The only complicated part was to make the div/iframe about the combo boxes. If this is what you need I could create a working simple example. Len www.len.ro On Thu, 2006-12-07 at 01:24 -0800, Stefan Esterer wrote: > Hi.. > > and how did you get this working? > > thx > stefan > > > Marilen Corciovei wrote: > > > > I implemented something js based here: http://www.resa-air.com/a5/be > > while wanting for the flights results to come up. > > > > Len > > www.len.ro > > > > On Wed, 2006-12-06 at 13:07 -0800, Sam Gendler wrote: > > > >> Does anyone have a mechanism for displaying some kind of please wait > >> mechanism while waiting for a slow loading page to be rendered? I can > >> think of a couple of potential solutions: > >> > >> 1. Submit form, have listener send to a please wait page which does > >> nothing but send another request which will actually load the page in > >> question. The problems with this include pages that require lots of > >> data in the form submission. I'd have to stick it in the session or > >> throw it in a hidden form. If it is a lot of data, it could be quite > >> slow. No control over when the browser stops displaying the message - > >> usually first byte in. If there is network latency, that could still > >> leave several seconds without the message in view. > >> > >> 2. If Tapestry supports it, I can render the header of the page, > >> including a div that says please wait, then flush to the browser > >> before initializing the model. At the end of the page, render some js > >> that will hide the div. Only problem here is flushing before the page > >> is completely rendered. Is this possible in Tapestry? > >> > >> Note: I cannot use an ajax update of the entire page and use the > >> effects available in an AjaxForm to render the message. At least, I > >> don't think I can. I haven't done an analysis of the pages in > >> question, but I'd really prefer top have my solution work on any page, > >> rather than just on ajax-y ones. It would, however, be nice to have a > >> solution which looks the same whether dong an ajax update (using > >> preEffect and effect) and when doing a full page reload after a normal > >> POST. > >> > >> Thanks > >> > >> --sam > >> > >> - > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > > > > >
Re: need "please wait" notice for slow loading pages
Hi.. and how did you get this working? thx stefan Marilen Corciovei wrote: > > I implemented something js based here: http://www.resa-air.com/a5/be > while wanting for the flights results to come up. > > Len > www.len.ro > > On Wed, 2006-12-06 at 13:07 -0800, Sam Gendler wrote: > >> Does anyone have a mechanism for displaying some kind of please wait >> mechanism while waiting for a slow loading page to be rendered? I can >> think of a couple of potential solutions: >> >> 1. Submit form, have listener send to a please wait page which does >> nothing but send another request which will actually load the page in >> question. The problems with this include pages that require lots of >> data in the form submission. I'd have to stick it in the session or >> throw it in a hidden form. If it is a lot of data, it could be quite >> slow. No control over when the browser stops displaying the message - >> usually first byte in. If there is network latency, that could still >> leave several seconds without the message in view. >> >> 2. If Tapestry supports it, I can render the header of the page, >> including a div that says please wait, then flush to the browser >> before initializing the model. At the end of the page, render some js >> that will hide the div. Only problem here is flushing before the page >> is completely rendered. Is this possible in Tapestry? >> >> Note: I cannot use an ajax update of the entire page and use the >> effects available in an AjaxForm to render the message. At least, I >> don't think I can. I haven't done an analysis of the pages in >> question, but I'd really prefer top have my solution work on any page, >> rather than just on ajax-y ones. It would, however, be nice to have a >> solution which looks the same whether dong an ajax update (using >> preEffect and effect) and when doing a full page reload after a normal >> POST. >> >> Thanks >> >> --sam >> >> - >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > > -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/need-%22please-wait%22-notice-for-slow-loading-pages-tf2770707.html#a7735720 Sent from the Tapestry - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: need "please wait" notice for slow loading pages
I implemented something js based here: http://www.resa-air.com/a5/be while wanting for the flights results to come up. Len www.len.ro On Wed, 2006-12-06 at 13:07 -0800, Sam Gendler wrote: > Does anyone have a mechanism for displaying some kind of please wait > mechanism while waiting for a slow loading page to be rendered? I can > think of a couple of potential solutions: > > 1. Submit form, have listener send to a please wait page which does > nothing but send another request which will actually load the page in > question. The problems with this include pages that require lots of > data in the form submission. I'd have to stick it in the session or > throw it in a hidden form. If it is a lot of data, it could be quite > slow. No control over when the browser stops displaying the message - > usually first byte in. If there is network latency, that could still > leave several seconds without the message in view. > > 2. If Tapestry supports it, I can render the header of the page, > including a div that says please wait, then flush to the browser > before initializing the model. At the end of the page, render some js > that will hide the div. Only problem here is flushing before the page > is completely rendered. Is this possible in Tapestry? > > Note: I cannot use an ajax update of the entire page and use the > effects available in an AjaxForm to render the message. At least, I > don't think I can. I haven't done an analysis of the pages in > question, but I'd really prefer top have my solution work on any page, > rather than just on ajax-y ones. It would, however, be nice to have a > solution which looks the same whether dong an ajax update (using > preEffect and effect) and when doing a full page reload after a normal > POST. > > Thanks > > --sam > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >
Re: Re: Re: Re: RE: need "please wait" notice for slow loading pages
If only it were easy to just turn to the PM and say "no, you're wrong. We have a much bigger underlying issue that we'll be covering up with this kind of fix. Instead of making users feel better as good conservative use of wait/progress/etc indicators can do when not abused - it will become a huge annoyance and may be attributed with some level of retardation of the system by users after a while. " Oh yeah. I've been there, done that. It goes nowhere. I'd say more, but its a public forum ;-) And in this case, I'm not sure it is a MUCH bigger underlying issue. There is a certain minimum latency we get from some services. It doesn't increase significantly with dataset size, so it isn't likely to get much worse in the near future. But it is enough to warrant letting the user know what's up. Much like waiting for a plane ticket response from expedia. No one expects to get a list of fares in 100ms, so they throw a progress indicator up there while you wait. --sam - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: Re: RE: need "please wait" notice for slow loading pages
Duly noted Sam, sorry for any assumptions I made. If only it were easy to just turn to the PM and say "no, you're wrong. We have a much bigger underlying issue that we'll be covering up with this kind of fix. Instead of making users feel better as good conservative use of wait/progress/etc indicators can do when not abused - it will become a huge annoyance and may be attributed with some level of retardation of the system by users after a while. " On 12/7/06, Sam Gendler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: -- Jesse Kuhnert Tapestry/Dojo team member/developer Open source based consulting work centered around dojo/tapestry/tacos/hivemind. http://blog.opencomponentry.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: Re: RE: need "please wait" notice for slow loading pages
You are making some wild assumptions. My only performance problem is waiting for some potentially latent web services to return some data in real time and in performing some really huge db queries on an already overworked database server. None of those slow loading pages are spending any significant time in Tapestry. You are also making some assumptions about my own professional skillset without knowing the slightest thing about it. My database optimization skills (coupled with those of a DBA, at least), are more than sufficient in keeping the database running at peak efficiency. But it is simply the nature of the application that some of the queries (reports) being run require some time in the db. It happens sometimes. And the web service latency is out of my hands, other than to implement a caching strategy, but that isn't compatible with the business model or our partners. The problems aren't intractable, but nor are they trivial to solve in an architecturally clean manner. Regardless, I have a requirement that is out of my hands which states that EVERY page should display a notification while the next page is loading, no matter how short or long that process may take. Pointing out the animated browser icon didn't satisfy the requirement from PM, so now I'm solving the requirement by implementing the feature. It's not as though every page in the app is so slow as to require the notice, but what PM wants, PM gets. From your assumptions, it seems likely to me that you have no experience with an application on the scale of the app I am building. This is a core enterprise application that is supporting a multinational corporation and handling the data from several hundred million hits per day in a system that is scaling up by several tens of millions of impressions per day every week. It is both internally and externally facing, is internationalized into multiple languages, handling reporting on data that is well into the billions of rows, and is functioning across a cluster of many tens of hosts, multiple db servers, caches, file servers, CDNs, and with webservices integration as both client and server. For you to make any assumptions about the structure or efficiency of my application based on a couple of emails to a mailing list is a hell of an imposition, quite frankly. I certainly don't have any idea where you get the impression that I am not using key expressions the way they are intended to be used in Tapestry, that my dbs are suboptimally configured or that I am using a suboptimal hibernate config. As it happens, the app is still fairly immature, so the hibernate config has been left intentionally simple in order to avoid premature optimization, but hibernate isn't the source of my performance problems, in any case. I've got maybe 10 pages in the entire app that take more than 300 ms to render, with maybe 3 of those over 500ms. The biggest problem, quite frankly, is merely dealing with transoceanic or (god forbid) satellite latency, something that I'm guessing isn't a problem you've had to deal with directly. When you combine that latency with an occasional lag populating a model for a component, you get a situation where PM has decided that they'd prefer to remove any doubt that the system is working while the user waits You seem to be under the impression that I'm some kind of novice programmer who is just learning how to build a webapp. Let me disabuse you of the notion. I've been neck deep in high performance web and network technologies for 11 years now. I was the architect on the team at Cisco systems that built the first high performance HTTP proxy appliance and invented the protocol that allows transparent caching on the network (whether you are fond of the idea or not, it is a useful performance enhancement). I then spent a number of years at Akamai, as the architect reponsible for building their dynamic content assembly service from scratch. I spent time at Software.com/Openwave building highly scalable email systems (these are the servers being run by tier 1 isps around the world) somewhere in there, too. I am very familiar with many of the methods needed to extract every once of efficiency out of a network application, and I certainly continue to pick up useful new information, but learning the necessity of optimizing a db config and schema isn't exactly news. --sam On 12/6/06, Jesse Kuhnert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I hope you don't mind me saying so - and I know you will - but it sounds to me like you have a lot more problems than what your current web framework does/does not supposedly support. I was afraid of as much while writing my last response on this thread but held back to give you the benefit of a doubt. The fact that you think there is "one" solution to your overall performance problem is even more disturbing simply because of the amount of enterprise experience you have under your belt. There is no single solution for all problems. There just
Re: Re: RE: need "please wait" notice for slow loading pages
I hope you don't mind me saying so - and I know you will - but it sounds to me like you have a lot more problems than what your current web framework does/does not supposedly support. I was afraid of as much while writing my last response on this thread but held back to give you the benefit of a doubt. The fact that you think there is "one" solution to your overall performance problem is even more disturbing simply because of the amount of enterprise experience you have under your belt. There is no single solution for all problems. There just isn't. There are "good" solutions for a set of very specific problems, but I've yet to come across any single software development concept / framework / methodology / etc that has solved all of my problems. In your particular case I'd make the bold assumption / guess that your problem has to do with one (or all) of the following: -) You aren't using the keyExpression type parameters that almost all Tapestry components interacting with any sort of model provide. This is just going to be huge in terms of performance impact on your application. -) Your database (not even getting into hibernate here yet) isn't being optimized/utilized properly. There is soo much more that goes into a good database design than just normalizing tables and giving them good primary/foreign keys/ etc... Each specific database vendor has very specific - and crutial - things that you can do to dramatically increase the performance of your operations against a database. I've personally witnessed one such specific scenario where a report that used to take almost 4 hours to complete was reduced to about 30 seconds with about 1 minutes worth of work from someone who knew how to use the database they were working with. -) You're not declaring the right kinds of optimization strategies with your hibernate entities. Besides the multitude of options available for each specific entity/properties of that entitiy/relationships into and out of the entity / etc there are also all of the many ways you can utilize your secondary cache to really make your application scream. I think if given enough time I could probably make any application perform reasonably fast in almost any modern(stable) web framework given to me. It's all in how you attack each problem one at a time. my 2 cents anyways On 12/6/06, Sam Gendler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On 12/6/06, Jesse Kuhnert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It's hard to tell which problem you are trying to solve through your comments. Well, I've got a lot of pages that just plain take a while (1-2 secs, with a max at maybe 5 seconds for one particularly nasty page that will eventually get some custom schema to alleviate the mess of joins) to collect all of the data necessary to render them, even without a form submission. I've also got an enterprise app where the data center is in Munich, but half the users are in the US and other distant locations, so I've got two problems to solve - general transfer latency of rich pages and compute latency. I need to nail both with a single solution. In most cases, I don't have the ability to render an empty page and then fill it in with ajax because tap just doesn't appear to be flexible enough in that regard, unfortunately. Rewind cycle strikes again. Trying to load up an 'empty' page which can then be populated with ajax is difficult because any form component that uses a complex model (table, property selection, etc) must at least have enough data in the model to be successfully rewound during the ajax request unless I want to store all the submitted values via persistence to the client or session so that I can render the page without any form fields at all, initially. That probably means a special version of the model which contains only the values I know will be submitted during the ajax request. To me, that's just architecturally ugly, since every page that needs a please wait notice must have custom engineering to support it, and the engineering required is different for every instance. That'll be both bug prone and time consuming. What I am looking for is something that can be applied at the framework or base class level (or added as a component, but I know that isn't going to work), so I don't have to go back and re-engineer a couple hundred fairly sophisticated pages just to get processing notices added to them all. The only solution I see, and one which appears to work quite nicely, is to use a servlet filter to provide a fake request to render a progress notifier and then replace that with the original request via a javascript redirect after the "please wait" notice is displayed. It handles all non-ajax cases except file upload form submissions and it can be easily enabled and disabled on a per-page basis declaratively through a number of methods - custom params in the request, special headers, path identification, and probably others. The only thing I don't like is that it is 'outside the a
Re: Re: RE: need "please wait" notice for slow loading pages
On 12/6/06, Jesse Kuhnert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: It's hard to tell which problem you are trying to solve through your comments. Well, I've got a lot of pages that just plain take a while (1-2 secs, with a max at maybe 5 seconds for one particularly nasty page that will eventually get some custom schema to alleviate the mess of joins) to collect all of the data necessary to render them, even without a form submission. I've also got an enterprise app where the data center is in Munich, but half the users are in the US and other distant locations, so I've got two problems to solve - general transfer latency of rich pages and compute latency. I need to nail both with a single solution. In most cases, I don't have the ability to render an empty page and then fill it in with ajax because tap just doesn't appear to be flexible enough in that regard, unfortunately. Rewind cycle strikes again. Trying to load up an 'empty' page which can then be populated with ajax is difficult because any form component that uses a complex model (table, property selection, etc) must at least have enough data in the model to be successfully rewound during the ajax request unless I want to store all the submitted values via persistence to the client or session so that I can render the page without any form fields at all, initially. That probably means a special version of the model which contains only the values I know will be submitted during the ajax request. To me, that's just architecturally ugly, since every page that needs a please wait notice must have custom engineering to support it, and the engineering required is different for every instance. That'll be both bug prone and time consuming. What I am looking for is something that can be applied at the framework or base class level (or added as a component, but I know that isn't going to work), so I don't have to go back and re-engineer a couple hundred fairly sophisticated pages just to get processing notices added to them all. The only solution I see, and one which appears to work quite nicely, is to use a servlet filter to provide a fake request to render a progress notifier and then replace that with the original request via a javascript redirect after the "please wait" notice is displayed. It handles all non-ajax cases except file upload form submissions and it can be easily enabled and disabled on a per-page basis declaratively through a number of methods - custom params in the request, special headers, path identification, and probably others. The only thing I don't like is that it is 'outside the application' since it lives in a servlet filter, but I can live with that. Sure, it will suffer a little for users on high latency connections (especially the folks down under), but so long as the processing notice is very small, it shouldn't be too bad, since the bytes transferred should fit within a single packet, if I'm careful. And the notice will be visible and remain visible whether the lag is due to network or server i/o. I'm just posting this so others can use the idea. I've already determined that the concept is sound. --sam The mention of a File upload area being a good place to have a wait indicator would be a perfect scenario for the suggestion of throwing up some sort of shared "wait" dialog via javascript. (as was outlined in more detail previously) For data intensive things with potentially many nodes there are other options. For instance, you will notice that the tacos tree demo does exactly this. It renders the page out initially and displays a wait cursor after that is completed while it fetched all of the data to display all of the tree nodes, http://opencomponentry.com:8080/tacos/ajax/TreeExample.html . I don't think you are going to find a solution that fits all scenarios. (at least not one that works well from a user/developer perspective) You may have to just treat each page on a case by case basis. Probably more work but definitely a better experience for your users. On 12/6/06, Sam Gendler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I think that functions by loading the page entirely without data and > then firing off an ajax request to get the data. I'm seriously > considering reworkgin my pages in a manner that alows this. By > default, the page renders a page that does no work, including > populating models and such. The content area gets wrapped in a great > big div that can be replaced by an ajax request. When the ajax > request fires, I can then populate the models, knowing that a please > wait dialog is visible. The trick will be in ensuring that all the > models are instantiated with at least enough data to rewind correctly > during the ajax request - I'm concerned that doing that will be very > labour intensive and may well require lots of custom code on every > page, to take into account that page's particular requirements. > > I'm thinking I need to get really sneaky and do something with a > servlet filter, such as interce
Re: RE: need "please wait" notice for slow loading pages
It's hard to tell which problem you are trying to solve through your comments. The mention of a File upload area being a good place to have a wait indicator would be a perfect scenario for the suggestion of throwing up some sort of shared "wait" dialog via javascript. (as was outlined in more detail previously) For data intensive things with potentially many nodes there are other options. For instance, you will notice that the tacos tree demo does exactly this. It renders the page out initially and displays a wait cursor after that is completed while it fetched all of the data to display all of the tree nodes, http://opencomponentry.com:8080/tacos/ajax/TreeExample.html . I don't think you are going to find a solution that fits all scenarios. (at least not one that works well from a user/developer perspective) You may have to just treat each page on a case by case basis. Probably more work but definitely a better experience for your users. On 12/6/06, Sam Gendler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I think that functions by loading the page entirely without data and then firing off an ajax request to get the data. I'm seriously considering reworkgin my pages in a manner that alows this. By default, the page renders a page that does no work, including populating models and such. The content area gets wrapped in a great big div that can be replaced by an ajax request. When the ajax request fires, I can then populate the models, knowing that a please wait dialog is visible. The trick will be in ensuring that all the models are instantiated with at least enough data to rewind correctly during the ajax request - I'm concerned that doing that will be very labour intensive and may well require lots of custom code on every page, to take into account that page's particular requirements. I'm thinking I need to get really sneaky and do something with a servlet filter, such as intercepting all incoming requests, instantiating a new Request object which tells tapestry to render a page that does nothing but display a please wait dialog before sending an ajax request with a particular identifier in it. When the filter sees that identifier, it can replace the incoming Request object with the original Request object, allowing the page to render correctly. I have no idea whether this is truly feasible, but I suspect it is the only truly viable solution that works in all cases (except file upload, I imagine, which is a shame, cause that'd be a real handy place to have a pleae wait dialog). --sam -- Jesse Kuhnert Tapestry/Dojo team member/developer Open source based consulting work centered around dojo/tapestry/tacos/hivemind. http://blog.opencomponentry.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: RE: need "please wait" notice for slow loading pages
I think that functions by loading the page entirely without data and then firing off an ajax request to get the data. I'm seriously considering reworkgin my pages in a manner that alows this. By default, the page renders a page that does no work, including populating models and such. The content area gets wrapped in a great big div that can be replaced by an ajax request. When the ajax request fires, I can then populate the models, knowing that a please wait dialog is visible. The trick will be in ensuring that all the models are instantiated with at least enough data to rewind correctly during the ajax request - I'm concerned that doing that will be very labour intensive and may well require lots of custom code on every page, to take into account that page's particular requirements. I'm thinking I need to get really sneaky and do something with a servlet filter, such as intercepting all incoming requests, instantiating a new Request object which tells tapestry to render a page that does nothing but display a please wait dialog before sending an ajax request with a particular identifier in it. When the filter sees that identifier, it can replace the incoming Request object with the original Request object, allowing the page to render correctly. I have no idea whether this is truly feasible, but I suspect it is the only truly viable solution that works in all cases (except file upload, I imagine, which is a shame, cause that'd be a real handy place to have a pleae wait dialog). --sam On 12/6/06, Firas Adiler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Check the Panel component, from the YUI Library: http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/examples/container/panelwait/2.html Regards, -Original Message- From: Sam Gendler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 10:07 PM To: Tapestry users Subject: need "please wait" notice for slow loading pages Does anyone have a mechanism for displaying some kind of please wait mechanism while waiting for a slow loading page to be rendered? I can think of a couple of potential solutions: ... Thanks --sam - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: need "please wait" notice for slow loading pages
Check the Panel component, from the YUI Library: http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/examples/container/panelwait/2.html Regards, -Original Message- From: Sam Gendler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 10:07 PM To: Tapestry users Subject: need "please wait" notice for slow loading pages Does anyone have a mechanism for displaying some kind of please wait mechanism while waiting for a slow loading page to be rendered? I can think of a couple of potential solutions: ... Thanks --sam - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: need "please wait" notice for slow loading pages
The problem is that tapestry waits for the complete page to render server-side before starting sending the response... This is because it needs to gather all those js fragments that the components of a page might contribute. The only way to disable this (that I know of) is to use neither @Shell nor @Body in that page Jesse Kuhnert wrote: > There are a lot of different ways to handle this. > > A very quick and dirty way I've done it is by adding a dojo dialog > widget init block to my border and providing a global javascript > function call like "yourappname.showProgress()" that I can easily add > in to any potentially slow running form submissions via onClick or > similar. This has worked out just fine for server submissions that > take a long time to complete. > > For a more general "page loading" where you expect the page to take a > long time loading period the solution becomes slightly more delicate. > You probably want this loading indicator to be visible ASAP so I'd > probably just write a very tiny fragment of javacscript in that > made some sort of decorated "loading" div block visible ~until~ > dojo.addOnLoad() fires off. (or whatever mechanism you want to use to > know that a particular portion of the document loading process in your > browser is finished) > > On 12/6/06, Sam Gendler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Does anyone have a mechanism for displaying some kind of please wait >> mechanism while waiting for a slow loading page to be rendered? I can >> think of a couple of potential solutions: >> >> 1. Submit form, have listener send to a please wait page which does >> nothing but send another request which will actually load the page in >> question. The problems with this include pages that require lots of >> data in the form submission. I'd have to stick it in the session or >> throw it in a hidden form. If it is a lot of data, it could be quite >> slow. No control over when the browser stops displaying the message - >> usually first byte in. If there is network latency, that could still >> leave several seconds without the message in view. >> >> 2. If Tapestry supports it, I can render the header of the page, >> including a div that says please wait, then flush to the browser >> before initializing the model. At the end of the page, render some js >> that will hide the div. Only problem here is flushing before the page >> is completely rendered. Is this possible in Tapestry? >> >> Note: I cannot use an ajax update of the entire page and use the >> effects available in an AjaxForm to render the message. At least, I >> don't think I can. I haven't done an analysis of the pages in >> question, but I'd really prefer top have my solution work on any page, >> rather than just on ajax-y ones. It would, however, be nice to have a >> solution which looks the same whether dong an ajax update (using >> preEffect and effect) and when doing a full page reload after a normal >> POST. >> >> Thanks >> >> --sam >> >> - >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> > > -- Andreas Andreou - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://andyhot.di.uoa.gr Tapestry / Tacos developer Open Source / J2EE Consulting - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: need "please wait" notice for slow loading pages
There are a lot of different ways to handle this. A very quick and dirty way I've done it is by adding a dojo dialog widget init block to my border and providing a global javascript function call like "yourappname.showProgress()" that I can easily add in to any potentially slow running form submissions via onClick or similar. This has worked out just fine for server submissions that take a long time to complete. For a more general "page loading" where you expect the page to take a long time loading period the solution becomes slightly more delicate. You probably want this loading indicator to be visible ASAP so I'd probably just write a very tiny fragment of javacscript in that made some sort of decorated "loading" div block visible ~until~ dojo.addOnLoad() fires off. (or whatever mechanism you want to use to know that a particular portion of the document loading process in your browser is finished) On 12/6/06, Sam Gendler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Does anyone have a mechanism for displaying some kind of please wait mechanism while waiting for a slow loading page to be rendered? I can think of a couple of potential solutions: 1. Submit form, have listener send to a please wait page which does nothing but send another request which will actually load the page in question. The problems with this include pages that require lots of data in the form submission. I'd have to stick it in the session or throw it in a hidden form. If it is a lot of data, it could be quite slow. No control over when the browser stops displaying the message - usually first byte in. If there is network latency, that could still leave several seconds without the message in view. 2. If Tapestry supports it, I can render the header of the page, including a div that says please wait, then flush to the browser before initializing the model. At the end of the page, render some js that will hide the div. Only problem here is flushing before the page is completely rendered. Is this possible in Tapestry? Note: I cannot use an ajax update of the entire page and use the effects available in an AjaxForm to render the message. At least, I don't think I can. I haven't done an analysis of the pages in question, but I'd really prefer top have my solution work on any page, rather than just on ajax-y ones. It would, however, be nice to have a solution which looks the same whether dong an ajax update (using preEffect and effect) and when doing a full page reload after a normal POST. Thanks --sam - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Jesse Kuhnert Tapestry/Dojo team member/developer Open source based consulting work centered around dojo/tapestry/tacos/hivemind. http://blog.opencomponentry.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
