Re: Tomcat 7.0.50 tldValidation
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 23/01/2014 15:25, Christopher Schultz wrote: On 1/23/14, 10:17 AM, Mark Thomas wrote: On 23/01/2014 15:11, Christopher Schultz wrote: If that's true, then the Digester should be using the public namespace id of the schema and ignoring the (incomplete) URL provided by the XML document in order to locate the Schema in the local catalog. (I inadvertently said system id in my previous message, but I meant public namespace id... that is, http://java.sun.com/xml/ns/j2ee;). There are a couple of difficulties with that. 1. The namespace does not identify a single schema - it is associated with several. 2. The namespace is not available to the EntityResolver. Given the XML document in the original post, what is causing Tomcat /not/ to load that local XML Schema? The way the new custom resolver is written. As per my original response, we could look at better handling for this case. I'd need to go back to the archives and research if there is a reason for the current behaviour. Okay. Having written a few custom resolvers for just this purpose, I recall them being a total PITA to get right. The resolver only has the incomplete location web-jsptaglibrary_2_0.xsd to work with. Such a location is normally resolved as relative to the location of the document using it. Since the document containing this reference is a TLD in a web app, that isn't going to work unless the schemas are located alongside the TLDs. Given that later versions of the standard tag libraries use an absolute location of http://java.sun.com/xml/ns/j2ee/web-jsptaglibrary_2_0.xsd; (which Tomcat recognises and directs the parser to its local copy) I'm minded to view this as an implementation bug in that tag library that can be worked around by disabling TLD validation. We could take the view that if we see a location of web-jsptaglibrary_2_0.xsd (or any other schema name in the j2ee namespace) we can assume it is a j2ee schema and resolve it as such. As long as this is a fall-back position (i.e. the relative to current resource location is checked first) then I don't think there is any risk associated with it. Mark -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJS4in3AAoJEBDAHFovYFnnCX0QAOnm6Ubdt3rqdt2LL9sf7oCM YJqHpHD732iHexKWxLg8oKZfNEup7oYXDGOmtNtNSI/Ulk9kzWsLrRvxCA4X+Jfw de13jdn1nE+5J+twx6j/29cM9PdW2R24zNBZowM0Rf3+Enlr8x5G1sgOA3Xh5Yh4 +yU4tWhX924lgM4bk7+fN8cNqdw9c48QWstH+1SkUzFmvIxl088Fo3foHEaG/YH+ 3vDL6116if0yg/k3uMHBVrytZ6fXudf3EO/GcrBZl6m8FyMfekZ4Y/DLktRPuDdu RadZoFdXU1HRV9gtn4GqlV/ozNU9DBcP45jra1rW4/i/1qCY9/TrY8dkKySG/toq 8UPabQxM+06wkkoGcmaR3xFgJw1cJ/cTiINjecSrTX+5jco2dKAdr4vN7ZCz9Lfe 1yqXpPBRf2yE/ZWf9o+UV5QpbUugetgAe/rhpRSZiJR7AvJTKagXI4R6SUo8xwZT yjYg9AW3EkMAtZHun4W1eKtlqGf3OBxZJY/EeQvtODinBC7KRRvRMsGxdleSYp1o xTtRBOwlp1hzajSzZZnh51ZyzKBu1fU9fDwIfitwTO5AznUBLAqA1gLnz35EE2+l ETv62Y+I+CDRNFezQ/IoFWbh/eDkShya69mLSXTG+gmm9kH0VbLJCMKXz/uhyOaN 7yQVo+5zAT1wz6CzHxXd =D6nW -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org
Re: Deny Put Delete
I've dealt with similar nonsensical compliance scans before, and my response was: You believe you can PUT or DELETE files on this installation? ** makes popcorn ** Please proceed. I'll sit here and watch. Take your time. Morons. Bane of productive peoples' existence. Also, a special place in hell for the writers of these scanners... /rant -- Maybe even more stupid with this scanner could be that it only test for the options request to see what it returns but does not do an actual test of it really works? Maybe i can have a server that only replies that it accepts a GET but when i actually do fire a PUT or a DELETE the code does do something... johan
Re: Tomcat 7.0.50 tldValidation
2014/1/24 Mark Thomas ma...@apache.org:
On 23/01/2014 15:25, Christopher Schultz wrote:
On 1/23/14, 10:17 AM, Mark Thomas wrote:
On 23/01/2014 15:11, Christopher Schultz wrote:
If that's true, then the Digester should be using the public
namespace id of the schema and ignoring the (incomplete) URL
provided by the XML document in order to locate the Schema in
the local catalog. (I inadvertently said system id in my
previous message, but I meant public namespace id... that is,
http://java.sun.com/xml/ns/j2ee;).
There are a couple of difficulties with that.
1. The namespace does not identify a single schema - it is associated
with several.
2. The namespace is not available to the EntityResolver.
Given the XML document in the original post, what is causing
Tomcat /not/ to load that local XML Schema?
The way the new custom resolver is written. As per my original
response, we could look at better handling for this case. I'd
need to go back to the archives and research if there is a reason
for the current behaviour.
Okay. Having written a few custom resolvers for just this purpose,
I recall them being a total PITA to get right.
The resolver only has the incomplete location
web-jsptaglibrary_2_0.xsd to work with. Such a location is normally
resolved as relative to the location of the document using it. Since
the document containing this reference is a TLD in a web app, that
isn't going to work unless the schemas are located alongside the TLDs.
Given that later versions of the standard tag libraries use an
absolute location of
http://java.sun.com/xml/ns/j2ee/web-jsptaglibrary_2_0.xsd; (which
Tomcat recognises and directs the parser to its local copy) I'm minded
to view this as an implementation bug in that tag library that can be
worked around by disabling TLD validation.
We could take the view that if we see a location of
web-jsptaglibrary_2_0.xsd (or any other schema name in the j2ee
namespace) we can assume it is a j2ee schema and resolve it as such.
As long as this is a fall-back position (i.e. the relative to current
resource location is checked first) then I don't think there is any
risk associated with it.
Specification:
http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema-1/#xsi_schemaLocation
http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema-1/#schema-loc
Personally, I feel safer to use our local copy of the schema over one
loaded from elsewhere.
I suspect that if needed our schemas can be overwritten by placing
unpacked resources into ${catalina.base}/lib.
AFAIR from debugging, loading a schema for web.xml involves loading a
dozen of xsd resources. This loading is repeated for each
web-fragment.xml. I wonder whether such Schema objects could be
cached.
(Given that such loading is performed internally by XML processor in
JRE, I do not see an easy way here.
A possible way is that it is possible to create a
javax.xml.validation.Schema explicitly and explicitly perform
Schema.newValidator().validate(...) on the document).
Best regards,
Konstantin Kolinko
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Re: [OT] Out of memory exception - top posting
On 23 January 2014 20:08, André Warnier a...@ice-sa.com wrote: Ray Holme wrote: Doing anything as root conceals the errors. Tomcat is no exception and changing it to a real user makes your testing complete. Guys, I think that the rule (or should I say suggestion ?) on this list to *not* top-post is not working. Either people don't read the rules, or they do not understand the rule, or they just ignore it. personally i don't like bottom posting, for me that reads way more annoying But that is because i use gmail, and that one already nests it very nicely and collapse all the bottom So you read it already perfectly as if it was a bottom post. So i really find all this in between and bottom post harder to read for this list then any other list i used just because of that i must scan way more through all the replies where the actual replies are I don't mind for this list, so i do what others like to have, but i am very happy that this is one of the few doing this... -- Johan Compagner Servoy
Re: [OT] Out of memory exception - top posting
There are probably lots of reasons for top-posting, and I don't think we can lay the blame on the MS Outlook world. The people I work with use a mixture of Thunderbird, web-based interfaces, and Outlook. Every one of them top-posts :-(. When you click reply in these email clients, they insert the caret at the top of the email with the original email indented below. This is the out of the box default. It can be changed, but most people won't know how/care to/prefer it this way. I think top-posting says a lot about the thought process of the poster. To me it says, my issue, problem, answer, concern is of paramount importance. You should remember everything about my issue. After all, I remember everything about my issue. The attitude is probably not malicious, but more along the lines of a lack of perspective. As long as you can visually distinguish the reply from the original, does it really matter if that reply is above or below the original? When people reply to a thread, as long as their email client indents, you have that clear visual indication. As a programmer, I have seen arguments about indentation and brace position. This smacks to me as one of those. Personally I think that life really is too short to get hung up about this. People want help. I joined this mailing list to help them, to kind of pay back for people that had helped me with previous problems. Lets help them. Save your own time and the time of everyone else on the list (and the archives, where useless messages can't be removed) and just skip that step. +1 Personally I find replies to threads that are more conversational, far more offensive than top posting. This isn't facebook. If the reply doesn't provide help to the issue at hand, don't send 2C Chris - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org
Re: Tomcat 7 not honoring maxThreads configuration in catalina.properties and activeCount not going beyond 200
Through some trials found that its not enough to increase the Executors thread count(maxThreads for Executor element) but also need to increase the Connectors thread count(maxThreads for Connector element). This behavior is not actually clearly captured in tomcat documentation says A reference to the name in an Executor element. If this attribute is set, and the named executor exists, the connector will use the executor, and all the other thread attributes will be ignored. Note that if a shared executor is not specified for a connector then the connector will use a private, internal executor to provide the thread pool. all the other thread attributes will be ignored makes impression that its enough to increase the Executor thread count. As executor is a shared thread pool and connector is using that but what I seen is Referencing the Executor in Connector element and setting maxThreads for Executor is not enough. If we do that tomcat creates no. of threads as per maxThread configuration of Executor but not all threads are actually used for request processing. Even if we put more load the activeCount will never go above 200 that is default maxThreads value of Connector. To get threads more than 200 we have to additionally set the maxThread attribute for Connectors element as well. (irrespective of Executor reference) When I explicitly set maxThreads for Connectors activeCount actually went UP to the maxThreads limit. Now I'm able to reach activeCounts beyond 250 see attachment. On Thursday, January 23, 2014 8:45 PM, Christopher Schultz ch...@christopherschultz.net wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 akshay, On 1/23/14, 9:07 AM, akshay hiremath wrote: We have this HP load runner running a load of requests on this system. We don't see request rejected by Tomcat but if I monitor the activeCount attribute of Mbean Catalina:type=Executor,name=tomcatThreadPool over the period of test why the activeCount is not going above 200. if I continuously track activeCount and currentThreadsBusy of MBean Catalina:type=ThreadPool,name=http-bio-8080 I see the graph reahes 200 and flat lines there. Please find monitored graph attached during one of the tests. See time frm start of graph to the 13:30 when test ended. ignore the in between part and rest graph that is of another ongoing test. Attachments are stripped from the list. Find another way to express your thoughts. Is it possible that you are simply not generating enough load? If Tomcat is responding to all of your requests (e.g. none of them are failing to connect, failing to respond, or responding very slowly -- as if queued) than it sounds like your Tomcat instance is handling all the load you are throwing at it. - -chris On Thursday, January 23, 2014 7:06 PM, Mark Thomas ma...@apache.org wrote: On 23/01/2014 13:30, akshay hiremath wrote: Why tomcat is not able to have more than 200 active Threads (parallel threads) processng my requests? It can. The issue is that the combination of the requests you are making (which you fail to describe), your load testing framework (which you fail to describe) and the scheduling in the CPUs of your hardware (which you also fail to describe) mean that the chances of there actually being 300 concurrent requests for Tomcat to process is pretty much zero. Mark - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org mailto:users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org mailto:users-h...@tomcat.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1 Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJS4TH3AAoJEBzwKT+lPKRY1vQP/01g9bL731iYBYV9MQtDhLMJ LeBXfV2996qnpX2VftnltPGXq2V9/l93tjRMiDxrcaGIrdzebkzv+PegRdhIxto1 JeIJh9xBFKd+J/aWTmzDYLzE9/eGoGRW+R+G3MuqqBs3KSXaNbEDHtdB/5zzQ0Bj Ht7iWTvPyEkp3JeKBo/FM/nZG2cnBNwC+kNWkdzlOqPIWUVOPmbqQky2qkM86s+d 65trfkDDSkez1ws2bZJ42TbW3IR9Qv1H/YlMzMmr2BJpGUnTAIKwu0l+bD+kH8pT QQo7anuTpuygwsE30zO3FcgkwzTuPcccHTh0G1XvzCYFJJ+tnAa4h+0Z6GAu7q6E 5ltIyHZjp4KJoLulNFQfqlItjabi6XIUwwQk/Ob4pRpgfsORIwapusY1vFThwhJv m3M0fVgWmxCHc41ed+mMhUPewXqqv0iaXKj4oxuW9GSPfdlQ7wCECwcIR11K39aU Ff9dbEEFuT7yvKgQy589dsSycgydCONTS+4b/25stwR1VgxA2MlvhcF8LBNN3o8L kPefjrOQVGLAuwrSgBiAVsD9dNDis5UhQ0sdGUKoLSuI3HSy1KMANVUWjYmig4bP fUmhGlKiM9CknxUpDK/rdAGWUOQU06rXeWVitQ/2p42UQibtAhXuM+1ymw/v4zou SBh0nxrR6K0AVV8KhomP =TIpT -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org
Re: Apache Tomcat Summit at ApacheCon NA 2014
On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 9:36 AM, Mark Thomas ma...@apache.org wrote: On 24/01/2014 06:06, Niki Dokovski wrote: On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 3:29 PM, Mark Thomas ma...@apache.org wrote: ApacheCon NA will be in Denver 7th to 11th April. The schedule for ApacheCon NA 2014 has been firmed up. There is an opportunity for a project summit on either the Thursday or the Friday. Since the BarCamp has been scheduled for the Thursday the Friday seems like the better option. We have complete flexibility as to the organisation of the Summit. One possible topic is with the Java EE 7 work pretty much complete, what new features is the community interested in between now and when the Java EE 8 work starts? Other suggestions for topics welcome. May I ask to share a summary for those who can't attend? The topic is interesting. Of course. To quote one of the rules of the Apache Way, If it didn't happen on the mailing list, it didn't happen. Thanks Mark By the way are there any plans to have ApacheCon in Europe? No definite plans I am aware of but I believe there is a desire to do so. Mark - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org
Re: Tomcat 7 not honoring maxThreads configuration in catalina.properties and activeCount not going beyond 200
2014/1/24 akshay hiremath akshay...@yahoo.com: Through some trials found that its not enough to increase the Executors thread count(maxThreads for Executor element) but also need to increase the Connectors thread count(maxThreads for Connector element). This behavior is not actually clearly captured in tomcat documentation says 1. The rules: http://tomcat.apache.org/lists.html#tomcat-users - 6. do not top-post, 7. do not send attachments 2. Are you sure that you are actually using an Executor? In your original port there is no guarantee that the executor attribute of your Connector matches the name of an Executor that you declared. If the Executor does not exist, the attribute will be ignored. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org
information: fedora/firefox/tomcat brain melt
I run fedora and use firefox. I also update my system weekly using yum. Recently I was testing something (directory linking) on my own local web using tomcat and one application. I kept getting a total white screen with a particular test popup (using any of the 3 linking style and then even normal directories with NO linking). I tried the same application on another server using my local browser and got the same result. So I tried another machine with another browser and found NO problems - both my server or the other one did things right. Checking my version of firefox against that box, I discovered I was running v-25 versus it had v-26. I actually was fully up to date but had not brought up the new version of firefox after a system update (no warning was given to do so and no OS update so no reboot requirement was obvious). I killed firefox and tried to restart, but a reboot was required (firefox said it was still running - ??? - and yea a kill -9 probably would have fixed that, but reboot is what I did). Anyway, after rebooting, ALL WORKED again - the blank white screens are gone. Apparently firefox was keeping something somewhere that made it fail with apache tomcat requests under certain conditions. The version running was confused as the next version was actually installed. This took me a couple days to find as I was not looking in the right places. I am just posting this in case anyone else has a similar problem.
RE: [OT] Out of memory exception - top posting
From: cjder...@gmail.com [mailto:cjder...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of chris derham Subject: Re: [OT] Out of memory exception - top posting As long as you can visually distinguish the reply from the original, does it really matter if that reply is above or below the original? Always bottom-posting is pretty much as useless and lazy as always top-posting. Many, possibly most, of the messages on this list contain multiple points which need to be answered individually. Neither top- nor bottom-posting works for these; inline responses are required to make sense of the answers. When people reply to a thread, as long as their email client indents, you have that clear visual indication. Except for the few people who like to indent their responses, turning everything into gibberish. - Chuck THIS COMMUNICATION MAY CONTAIN CONFIDENTIAL AND/OR OTHERWISE PROPRIETARY MATERIAL and is thus for use only by the intended recipient. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the e-mail and its attachments from all computers. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org
Re: [OT] Out of memory exception - top posting
If I can't figure out what the post is talking about by looking at the first 50-60 lines, I usually just hit D and move on. If, by some miracle, the poster really needed to reach *me*, he may eventually ask why I don't respond, and then I can tell him privately why I find his messages unintelligible. This also limits the effort I waste on messages that are all quotation, with no original content. I suspect that lots of email users expect the UA to do the Right Thing, while UA designers understand that this is a thing which the UA cannot do because it requires understanding of the content. So the UA punts, leaving the cursor at the top of the message, and the trusting user thinks this is what should happen. The *adept* user knows that editing and composition make his work more effective, and is guided by training and experience rather than the UA. -- Mark H. Wood, Lead System Programmer mw...@iupui.edu Machines should not be friendly. Machines should be obedient. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: [OT] Out of memory exception - top posting
On Friday, January 24, 2014 9:46 AM, Caldarale, Charles R chuck.caldar...@unisys.com wrote: From: cjder...@gmail.com [mailto:cjder...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of chris derham Subject: Re: [OT] Out of memory exception - top posting As long as you can visually distinguish the reply from the original, does it really matter if that reply is above or below the original? Always bottom-posting is pretty much as useless and lazy as always top-posting. Many, possibly most, of the messages on this list contain multiple points which need to be answered individually. Neither top- nor bottom-posting works for these; inline responses are required to make sense of the answers. MY REPLY: In this case, the reply seemed to make sense there, BUT if it makes you happier I will just slap myself again. I get it. When people reply to a thread, as long as their email client indents, you have that clear visual indication. Except for the few people who like to indent their responses, turning everything into gibberish. MY REPLY: Agreed. And by the way - it appears that yahoo is not properly indenting this or my above reply as it ought to. It seems like kind of overkill for me to go and do it for the mailer - but I did it so you can see. So not sure what I will do in the future. - Ray - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org
Re: [OT] Out of memory exception - top posting
Since this is part of a thread, neither top nor bottom posting makes sense, why include the previous post if we all have access to it in our conversation thread. the only time it makes sense to include it, would be when you reply in line to multiple questions with multiple answers. there, that should put a lid on it ;)
Re: [OT] Out of memory exception - top posting
On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 09:24:41PM -0500, Howard W. Smith, Jr. wrote: On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 2:08 PM, André Warnier a...@ice-sa.com wrote: Either people don't read the rules, or they do not understand the rule, or they just ignore it. I agree. As a tomcat/tomee user, I joined the list, primarily, to listen in on topics (that interest me), so I learned, very quickly, that top-posting is not preferred, here. I may have said this before, but: too bad there is no standard List-Rules: header to provide machine-readable hints, so that a conforming UA could remember them from the subscription response or latest-read message and at least give the user some suggestions. Rules like no attachments could be acted on by the UA; rules like no top-posting require human judgment but could be advertized by the UI. -- Mark H. Wood, Lead System Programmer mw...@iupui.edu Machines should not be friendly. Machines should be obedient. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: [OT] Out of memory exception - top posting
All good ideas. I like the general rule of: be nice or ignore the post. Why should we let a user's post turn our day lousy? I'd hate to see this place turn into what other user forums have become, not naming names. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org
RE: [OT] RE: Cannot connect from outside using Tomcat 7/APR/SSL on AWS Windows system
Hi, -Original Message- From: Howard W. Smith, Jr. [mailto:smithh032...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, January 24, 2014 5:31 AM To: Tomcat Users List Subject: Re: [OT] RE: Cannot connect from outside using Tomcat 7/APR/SSL on AWS Windows system On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 10:07 PM, Christopher Schultz ch...@christopherschultz.net wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 Howard, On 1/23/14, 9:05 PM, Howard W. Smith, Jr. wrote: [...] +1 chris, and for these reasons/features (and more), I LOVE WINDOWS (SERVER 2008)!!! :) It's firewall notwithstanding, Microsoft Windows is a really terrible server OS. At least Powershell gave admins the capability to do things without having to use a GUI for every damn thing, but there is just too much BS in a Windows box for me to ever consider it for a server. You are definitely entitled to your opinion and OS preference. Since majority of my experience has been Windows (and even though I love being a keyboard user and hate to operate a mouse), the GUI does not bother me, since I have learned to use keyboard shortcuts to help me operate Windows apps (or GUI, as you call it), been doing those keyboard shortcuts for almost 20 years now. :) I can also be considered as being a windows guy, as I worked with Windows as long as I can think back. The current server versions of Windows (2008, 2012) appear very stable to me and I normally also work with the GUI on a Server OS to set it up, so I don't have any problems with it (for Windows Server, there is also a Core edition which doesn't have a Explorer GUI etc. so you can only use PowerShell or other command lines, but I can't do anything useful with it so I always install the full (GUI) variant). So, I would say that my impression is that Windows Server 2012 is a great server OS (at least, if one doesn't count the licence fees...) ;-) (But I think the first really reliable/secure Windows Server OS is Win Server 2008 (with IIS 7 being the first sane web server from Microsoft with ASP.Net support)- e.g. AFAIK Svr 2003 did not have network authentication support and SSL/TLS support for RDP (remote desktop) which could lead to security problems if you remotely administer your server). What I also like on a Windows Server OS is the availablility of the MS implementation of .Net Framework and the IIS web server (I know there is Mono for Linux, but as it is not developed form MS I don't know if it is as stable as the reference implementation for Windows). My personal impression of C#/.Net is that it could be described as a better Java, as I find it to be more flexible and powerful for programming client and also server applications. For example, the new Async programming model in .Net 4.5 makes it very easy to program scalable async code (which is also possible in ASP.Net web applications, but there only the old asnyc model is available so you have to do a few tricks), whereas in Java I find this quite complicated and depends on the available API (e.g. NIO model in Servlet 3.1). E.g. also for WebSocket applications in ASP.Net, you have more control over the WebSocket endpoint than with Java Servlet. This is why I also consider switching from Java/Tomcat to C# and ASP.Net for programming web applications in the future. Of course, this doesn't mean that I dislike Linux/Unix OSes, as my KVM-virtualized Windows Server 2012 runs on a Linux OS by an external hoster, using the VirtIO drivers from Fedora/Red Hat. Add to that the fact that you have to pay insane license fees, though you would also have to do that I suppose if you used SCO, AIX, etc. Solaris, BSD, and Linux are all free and have entire ecosystems that aren't dominated by the closed-source paradigm. Actually, I have found Linux to be 'attractive', since it is 'free' and since there is less GUI and more command-line there. I had some exposure to Linux and Unix in the past, and I fell in love with UNIX just before I graduated from college, and it was at that point that I made that statement, I can see myself doing this (SPARC machine, Unix OS, and keyboard, programming etc...) for the next 5 to 10 years (as a career)...I was really in love with the keyboard (most of all, in the computer lab). :) Instead of downloading Linux and trying it out, on my own, I just decided to stay with Windows. it just works (for me). And I usually only need 1 or 2 client access licenses (CALs) per server, since I am the primary person that remotely access the server. The servers are primarily used as file servers, until recently, when I developed my first Java EE web application within the last 2 years, so now 1 of the 2 Windows servers are used only as a web (app) server. I hope things have changed, but everyone I ever knew that ran Windows Server OSs in production had scheduled rolling-reboots of their servers because things just tended to work when they did
Re: [OT] RE: Cannot connect from outside using Tomcat 7/APR/SSL on AWS Windows system
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 Howard, On 1/23/14, 11:31 PM, Howard W. Smith, Jr. wrote: Instead of downloading Linux and trying it out, on my own, I just decided to stay with Windows. it just works (for me). I'm honestly glad to hear that you are having a good experience with it. Do you manage a lot of machines, or just one or two? Until recently, the *NIX world didn't have great (maybe just inexpensive/free) cluster-management utilities like Puppet. I believe Windows had that capability (e.g. Tivoli) much earlier, though I think it was initially aimed at administering fleets of workstations, not servers. Extending that capability to manage servers was probably trivial. I hope things have changed, but everyone I ever knew that ran Windows Server OSs in production had scheduled rolling-reboots of their servers because things just tended to work when they did that. Otherwise, stuff would fail with some regularity (like every 3 days). It's not clear to be whether restarting the OS or restarting the application did the trick -- as we all know, most Tomcat problems are actually webapp problems. In all my time working with Linux servers, I've never had to resort to such foolishness, nor has anyone else I have known. I've had servers running for over a year without a reboot. (They usually get a reboot for certain software upgrades, so years-running servers don't really exist... or shouldn't). I have seen posts on this list about people experiencing issues with Windows updates and their tomcat/database not starting or shutting down successfully (or as expected)... i do not experience these things...at all. Yes, I did send several emails to the tomee list, asking why did my tomee/tomcat server restart at night around 3am. I, then, learned it was the automatic Windows updates that I configured. So, after I learned that it was the automatic updates and that my app shutdown properly and restarted automatically (since I configured the tomcat/tomee service to start, automatically on/after boot), and no database corruption and no errors in the log. My Java EE app and tomcat/tomee shuts down and restarts gracefully inspite/through-it all. Great! I wish you the best of luck. - -chris -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1 Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJS4pehAAoJEBzwKT+lPKRYrMAQAJH9Jyz6V1C2Cx913B//NdKI rzSZOgBDRMLwi3eORY/cE5FJ0bW+5khP9BryIJ/AeHxY4zDyMgx8ICJot/wtI1QI Ru2hdjr+YMjE4TZmtpI9khBgKwb5HKJ7q27RQaxgN08BzH/t0tPQOmrIxO0+Z1lO mxiEw7DomEG0Xbsv4u2oAlu8GlBYOMWZ5AC4a/ag1u2k65kS/JEneLYSBNepuMlJ aIRfd4WUE+qjoykHo9uSR6XLaJEj5igozuCCrCcIL7u5NuBzeH3Gc56GGnV0V9Ye Qygpr+T0j6MS+Yza92ybng7g7QcKB6lh5maMYalnj/G/bU2I1Q4mcBtZsxsrevin NB5QJgvbZ+wZJeWQMH5h92v//zh0c8r0WZrVTF81ZYxXYo8HAwRFagKzY6qBxBeS njnXim86JBooPW1JhxYalrNgKV1pK7MxfTNkfvmK18L3ALMhf5A2qhd8Q3BIsWOQ Yi6t4JUlOGM32/3NcYcIT6/rYdIEZLOv9VEabV5WvcMQnq++ViUHjV64hWlknvCB hoRHN45ipj51vC6VRY6nq/FZ+L5gIWzb9q719sVGjwfLiFkF63biVppwYO5adWD+ pubXRs7Toxd1uYGM0bi3ruq/dL9B6m9EzIKN6nZsW4wrTWIvVNU/i0IWoNXHffJw ygFownq0oWKSG86riRfZ =6Aq+ -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org
Re: [OT] RE: Cannot connect from outside using Tomcat 7/APR/SSL on AWS Windows system
On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 11:41 AM, Christopher Schultz ch...@christopherschultz.net wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 Howard, On 1/23/14, 11:31 PM, Howard W. Smith, Jr. wrote: Instead of downloading Linux and trying it out, on my own, I just decided to stay with Windows. it just works (for me). I'm honestly glad to hear that you are having a good experience with it. Do you manage a lot of machines, or just one or two? Just 2 servers for now. Until recently, the *NIX world didn't have great (maybe just inexpensive/free) cluster-management utilities like Puppet. I believe Windows had that capability (e.g. Tivoli) much earlier, though I think it was initially aimed at administering fleets of workstations, not servers. Extending that capability to manage servers was probably trivial. I hope things have changed, but everyone I ever knew that ran Windows Server OSs in production had scheduled rolling-reboots of their servers because things just tended to work when they did that. Otherwise, stuff would fail with some regularity (like every 3 days). It's not clear to be whether restarting the OS or restarting the application did the trick -- as we all know, most Tomcat problems are actually webapp problems. In all my time working with Linux servers, I've never had to resort to such foolishness, nor has anyone else I have known. I've had servers running for over a year without a reboot. (They usually get a reboot for certain software upgrades, so years-running servers don't really exist... or shouldn't). I have seen posts on this list about people experiencing issues with Windows updates and their tomcat/database not starting or shutting down successfully (or as expected)... i do not experience these things...at all. Yes, I did send several emails to the tomee list, asking why did my tomee/tomcat server restart at night around 3am. I, then, learned it was the automatic Windows updates that I configured. So, after I learned that it was the automatic updates and that my app shutdown properly and restarted automatically (since I configured the tomcat/tomee service to start, automatically on/after boot), and no database corruption and no errors in the log. My Java EE app and tomcat/tomee shuts down and restarts gracefully inspite/through-it all. Great! I wish you the best of luck. Thanks. At the moment, I don't have a need for cluster management, because the app performs really well, but I'm hoping to refactor the app (quite) a bit, so I can market the app to other businesses. After all that, i may need to consider cluster management, more servers etc. Also, some day, I may consider migrating to Linux. On the to-do list when I have bandwidth to do so. - -chris -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1 Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJS4pehAAoJEBzwKT+lPKRYrMAQAJH9Jyz6V1C2Cx913B//NdKI rzSZOgBDRMLwi3eORY/cE5FJ0bW+5khP9BryIJ/AeHxY4zDyMgx8ICJot/wtI1QI Ru2hdjr+YMjE4TZmtpI9khBgKwb5HKJ7q27RQaxgN08BzH/t0tPQOmrIxO0+Z1lO mxiEw7DomEG0Xbsv4u2oAlu8GlBYOMWZ5AC4a/ag1u2k65kS/JEneLYSBNepuMlJ aIRfd4WUE+qjoykHo9uSR6XLaJEj5igozuCCrCcIL7u5NuBzeH3Gc56GGnV0V9Ye Qygpr+T0j6MS+Yza92ybng7g7QcKB6lh5maMYalnj/G/bU2I1Q4mcBtZsxsrevin NB5QJgvbZ+wZJeWQMH5h92v//zh0c8r0WZrVTF81ZYxXYo8HAwRFagKzY6qBxBeS njnXim86JBooPW1JhxYalrNgKV1pK7MxfTNkfvmK18L3ALMhf5A2qhd8Q3BIsWOQ Yi6t4JUlOGM32/3NcYcIT6/rYdIEZLOv9VEabV5WvcMQnq++ViUHjV64hWlknvCB hoRHN45ipj51vC6VRY6nq/FZ+L5gIWzb9q719sVGjwfLiFkF63biVppwYO5adWD+ pubXRs7Toxd1uYGM0bi3ruq/dL9B6m9EzIKN6nZsW4wrTWIvVNU/i0IWoNXHffJw ygFownq0oWKSG86riRfZ =6Aq+ -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org
Tomcat JDBC Error
Good morning Apache team! It's been a while since I installed tomcat and having some jdbc errors with version 6.0.20. We don't have a mysql.jdbc.driver and uncertain why its trying to register this. However we do have the oracle.jdbc.driver and the connections and driver location are accurate, though still having the following error and cannot crank start the application. I would sincerely appreciate any assistance. Thanks and kind regards, Leo Output from the catalina.2014-01-24.log Jan 24, 2014 9:25:22 AM org.apache.catalina.core.AprLifecycleListener init INFO: The APR based Apache Tomcat Native library which allows optimal performance in production environments was not found on the java.library.path: /apps/jdk1.6.0_16/jre/lib/amd64/server:/apps/jdk1.6.0_16/jre/lib/amd64:/apps/jdk1.6.0_16/jre/../lib/amd64:/usr/java/packages/lib/amd64:/lib:/usr/lib Jan 24, 2014 9:25:22 AM org.apache.coyote.http11.Http11Protocol init INFO: Initializing Coyote HTTP/1.1 on http-8081 Jan 24, 2014 9:25:22 AM org.apache.catalina.startup.Catalina load INFO: Initialization processed in 1287 ms Jan 24, 2014 9:25:22 AM org.apache.catalina.core.StandardService start INFO: Starting service Catalina Jan 24, 2014 9:25:22 AM org.apache.catalina.core.StandardEngine start INFO: Starting Servlet Engine: Apache Tomcat/6.0.26 Jan 24, 2014 9:25:22 AM org.apache.catalina.startup.HostConfig deployDescriptor INFO: Deploying configuration descriptor host-manager.xml Jan 24, 2014 9:25:23 AM org.apache.catalina.startup.HostConfig deployDescriptor INFO: Deploying configuration descriptor manager.xml Jan 24, 2014 9:25:23 AM org.apache.catalina.startup.HostConfig deployWAR INFO: Deploying web application archive rbacx.war Jan 24, 2014 9:25:27 AM org.apache.catalina.core.StandardContext start SEVERE: Error listenerStart Jan 24, 2014 9:25:27 AM org.apache.catalina.core.StandardContext start SEVERE: Context [/rbacx] startup failed due to previous errors Jan 24, 2014 9:25:27 AM org.apache.catalina.loader.WebappClassLoader clearReferencesJdbc SEVERE: A web application registered the JBDC driver [oracle.jdbc.OracleDriver] but failed to unregister it when the web application was stopped. To prevent a memory leak, the JDBC Driver has been forcibly unregistered. Jan 24, 2014 9:25:27 AM org.apache.catalina.loader.WebappClassLoader clearReferencesJdbc SEVERE: A web application registered the JBDC driver [com.mysql.jdbc.Driver] but failed to unregister it when the web application was stopped. To prevent a memory leak, the JDBC Driver has been forcibly unregistered. Jan 24, 2014 9:25:27 AM org.apache.catalina.startup.HostConfig deployDirectory INFO: Deploying web application directory ROOT Jan 24, 2014 9:25:27 AM org.apache.catalina.startup.HostConfig deployDirectory INFO: Deploying web application directory docs Jan 24, 2014 9:25:27 AM org.apache.catalina.startup.HostConfig deployDirectory INFO: Deploying web application directory examples Jan 24, 2014 9:25:27 AM org.apache.coyote.http11.Http11Protocol start INFO: Starting Coyote HTTP/1.1 on http-8081 Jan 24, 2014 9:25:28 AM org.apache.jk.common.ChannelSocket init INFO: Port busy 8009 java.net.BindException: Address already in use Jan 24, 2014 9:25:28 AM org.apache.jk.common.ChannelSocket init INFO: JK: ajp13 listening on /0.0.0.0:8010 Jan 24, 2014 9:25:28 AM org.apache.jk.server.JkMain start INFO: Jk running ID=1 time=0/37 config=null Jan 24, 2014 9:25:28 AM org.apache.catalina.startup.Catalina start INFO: Server startup in 5524 ms
Re: Tomcat JDBC Error
On 24/01/2014 18:24, Leo Medina wrote: It's been a while since I installed tomcat and having some jdbc errors with version 6.0.20. Time to upgrade. We don't have a mysql.jdbc.driver com.mysql.jdbc.Driver must be present in one of your webapps. I'd expect it to be in a JAR that has mysql in the name. If you don't need it remove it. and uncertain why its trying to register this. Registration happens automatically when the app starts (the JVM does this). The warning you are seeing is about de-registration when the app stops. However we do have the oracle.jdbc.driver and the connections and driver location are accurate, though still having the following error and cannot crank start the application. Same as for mysql but obviously no need to remove it. Those memory leak problems are not what you need to worry about. They are triggered when Tomcat is trying to shut the app down after it fails to start. What you need to worry about is why it fails to start. Output from the catalina.2014-01-24.log Jan 24, 2014 9:25:22 AM org.apache.catalina.core.AprLifecycleListener init INFO: The APR based Apache Tomcat Native library which allows optimal performance in production environments was not found on the java.library.path: /apps/jdk1.6.0_16/jre/lib/amd64/server:/apps/jdk1.6.0_16/jre/lib/amd64:/apps/jdk1.6.0_16/jre/../lib/amd64:/usr/java/packages/lib/amd64:/lib:/usr/lib Jan 24, 2014 9:25:22 AM org.apache.coyote.http11.Http11Protocol init INFO: Initializing Coyote HTTP/1.1 on http-8081 Jan 24, 2014 9:25:22 AM org.apache.catalina.startup.Catalina load INFO: Initialization processed in 1287 ms Jan 24, 2014 9:25:22 AM org.apache.catalina.core.StandardService start INFO: Starting service Catalina Jan 24, 2014 9:25:22 AM org.apache.catalina.core.StandardEngine start INFO: Starting Servlet Engine: Apache Tomcat/6.0.26 Jan 24, 2014 9:25:22 AM org.apache.catalina.startup.HostConfig deployDescriptor INFO: Deploying configuration descriptor host-manager.xml Jan 24, 2014 9:25:23 AM org.apache.catalina.startup.HostConfig deployDescriptor INFO: Deploying configuration descriptor manager.xml Jan 24, 2014 9:25:23 AM org.apache.catalina.startup.HostConfig deployWAR INFO: Deploying web application archive rbacx.war Jan 24, 2014 9:25:27 AM org.apache.catalina.core.StandardContext start SEVERE: Error listenerStart Jan 24, 2014 9:25:27 AM org.apache.catalina.core.StandardContext start SEVERE: Context [/rbacx] startup failed due to previous errors ^ This is the important bit. If you look in your log files you should see more detailed errors including stack traces. They will tell you what is going wrong. HTH, Mark - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org
Re: Notification strategy for OutOfMemoryError
On 1/23/2014 5:21 PM, Christopher Schultz wrote:
If you'd care to post your code to either the list or onto the wiki, I'm
sure it would be useful to someone. Feel free to trim-out huge sections
of the code and say make this fit your environment, etc. if you don't
want to show everyone how bad your email-assembling code looks ;)
Yeah, I don't really want to show my email code. Sending email
will be left as an exercise for the reader.
The filter part of it is barely anything. The method
handleError(Error,ServletRequest) does the work of logging and
sending email. I synchronized that method so that only one can
run at a time in order to minimize memory usage by the filter
if I'm getting multiple Error's thrown.
ErrorNotifier.java
/**
* Catch all {@link Throwable}s and notify on {@link Error}s.
*
* @see Filter#doFilter(ServletRequest, ServletResponse, FilterChain)
*/
public void doFilter( ServletRequest request, ServletResponse response,
FilterChain chain ) throws IOException, ServletException
{
try{
chain.doFilter(request, response);
}catch ( Throwable t ){
if ( t instanceof Error ){
try{
handleError((Error)t, request);
}catch ( Throwable tx ){
m_log.fatal(tx.getMessage(), tx);
}
}
throw t;
}
}
private static synchronized void handleError( Error error, ServletRequest
request ) throws UnsupportedEncodingException, MessagingException
{
log and check the error and send email
}
There are also destroy() and init(FilterConfig) methods but they are stubs
that do nothing and are only there because they are required by the Filter
interface.
WEB-INF/web.xml:
!-- Filter to catch java.lang.Error and send emails --
filter
display-nameErrorNotifier/display-name
filter-nameErrorNotifier/filter-name
filter-classcom.mydomain.filters.ErrorNotifier/filter-class
/filter
filter-mapping
filter-nameErrorNotifier/filter-name
url-pattern/*/url-pattern
/filter-mapping
-
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Status of the current IIS ISAPI Redirector for Tomcat
Hi all, for my Java Servlet web applications which run on Tomcat (currently 8.0.0-RC 10) on various Windows Server OSes (currently Windows Server 2012 R2), I use the ISAPI Redirector to forward requests from IIS to Tomcat over AJP. I use IIS as primary web server because I also host other websites that use different technologies like ASP.Net and PHP (and because IIS allows to run web applications as different processes as different user accounts, and because I can configure the SSL settings over IIS, and so on). The ISAPI Redirector has its job done well in the past and currently I'm still using it. Note that I'm only using it to forward requests from a single IIS instance to a single Tomcat instance, but not for load-balancing or other features. However, over the time I found some issues which seem to result from the changes that Win Server, IIS and other components have experienced over time, which I wanted to list here and see how these could be changed. A possibility that I see is to use an ASP.Net (C#) based redirector instead of an ISAPI based redirector as that will have a number of advantages - see below. 1. The ISAPI Redirector seems to be quite complicate to configure. You have to: 1) place the ISAPI redirector DLL in some arbitrary path (the docs suggest to place them in your Tomcat\bin directory) 2) create a virtual directory in your IIS web application which points to this path 3) change the handler settings for the virtual directory to allow to execute ISAPI dlls 4) add the ISAPI redirector DLL to the list of CGI and ISAPI restrictions in IIS 5) add the ISAPI redirector DLL to your web app as ISAPI filter 6) create some registry entries at HKLM\Software\Apache Software Foundation\Jakarta Isapi Redirector\1.0 to specify the path of the virtual directory, path to configuration files etc. 7) create configuration files (uriworkersmap.properties, worker.properties) and but them in some arbitrary path (the docs suggest to place them in your Tomcat\conf directory) I see a few problems here. First, you have to place the ISAPI redirector DLL in some external arbitrary path. This can introduce additional maintenance issues as you always have to remember this when e.g. moving the server. Because the docs suggest to place them in your Tomcat\bin directory, you might delete that file by mistake when you delete your Tomcat installation and create a new one. The same is true for the config files - if you place them in your Tomcat directory, you might delete them when you change your Tomcat config. Normally, these files do not belong to Tomcat, but to the ISAPI redirector, so I would expect to place them somewhere in your IIS web application. E.g, ASP.Net web applications have a web.config file in their root directory for configuration, and a bin directory where .Net assemblies can be placed. If you were using an ASP.Net based redirector for example (implemented as a managed module), you can place the binary into the bin directory of your IIS webapp and configure it by adding it to the web.config file. This would also mean that you don't have to create a virtual directory any more. I also got problems with the system-wide registry keys that you need to set up for the ISAPI redirector, as they don't allow separate configs for different IIS webapps. I once tried to create a isapi_redirect.properties with the configuration (instead of using the registry) like it is described on the Tomcat Connectors IIS reference page [1], but I didn't have success, so I reverted back to the registry settings. Note also that Microsoft has deprecated ISAPI filters and extensions in favor of native http modules [2]. 2. When using the ISAPI redirector with IIS 7, I got a few problems with response buffering - it seemed that IIS buffered the complete response body before starting to send it to the client. However, when I tried this again on IIS 8.5 today, then IIS only buffered a few MB before sending it to the client, so I think this is not a problem any more. Note that you can manually specify the amount that IIS should buffer, by adding the following in web.config (in configuration , system.webServer): handlers remove name=ISAPI-dll / add name=ISAPI-dll path=*.dll verb=* modules=IsapiModule resourceType=File requireAccess=Execute allowPathInfo=true responseBufferLimit=1 / /handlers 3. Chunked encoding is disabled by default. Personally I think every web server should use chunked encoding if the client specifies connection: keep-alive and the content-length is unknown, so that the server doesn't have to close the connection to signal EOF. It seems that this is a bit difficult in an ISAPI extension as this feature was being considered experimental until a few years ago. However, for example if you code a managed HTTP module using C#, you can just write bytes to the response without having to think about chunked encoding,
Re: [OT] Out of memory exception - top posting
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 Filip, On 1/24/14, 10:02 AM, Filip Hanik wrote: Since this is part of a thread, neither top nor bottom posting makes sense, why include the previous post if we all have access to it in our conversation thread. the only time it makes sense to include it, would be when you reply in line to multiple questions with multiple answers. That works great in Gmail, but nowhere else I know. Unless you like opening all dozen messages of a thread in separate windows so you can see them all at once. Not for me, thanks. there, that should put a lid on it ;) I'm assuming that was supposed to be a joke. In either case, I laughed. - -chris -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1 Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJS4sZIAAoJEBzwKT+lPKRYQbsQALsHgZp1quK5DAvIo7P0+996 VNl4SwIc6TEYGHEmWJIbpdEcvR/aaDA8RGzx4oZ9iHIDfQ4yGvR3HiycllQQjdtU Y5s3fvK9wYlDKx+pVWBQIYMSTrhSV3YYtPR8Z7OCBFSBonS0lYvN3OEfOa/f1bSh stT7YoOhiGWNfiG7Urbc5SQwQF1+pLQZNWM3D8GCRqkBUmzRhT5p3SatwGJJHdcS MCaj/ywPJQtwWO5sn1m1Emu+coxNdZj9p7CenwNIFv2JL96Najq5lyooIMNH758q JkwrBeNRS/moHxwRUSST0UDRQN9ftTmNo+8uxPf933KOE8Ijhr06fh8GxevK8HVd iCUJ7bEouBCDv7lZWcfgAlu6Zi/nsJQK3mLwPikN4dQnO3Z5Jtdz1UPrC+LXc+3R zZIw9TmhGEZobRf/A+fG/n4f5OqXzLplwzAZaoq9w/9yv46EMzagXbnS+xltrtbi JMPsj/3diaWJoKEGo5rew3BoryFdXd9cDrb9Z6K9wg2i7JTdaxbtEATHFK8pSz8J jQBwTKDhjd1mt1xxcUGPul88aSP+aLvS1UmteLHEBI/2TUVKhrtFLM9AK152JVsW Gc21YtAO7wPkgJHDuCmiFxaVX2kKwzBlXyf05weHxlRw9hiCI68RNbSL8LteAvKb n7jEq7N9BOtDPZ+aRX+9 =uUQe -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org
Re: [OT] Out of memory exception - top posting
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 Mark, On 1/24/14, 10:18 AM, Mark H. Wood wrote: On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 09:24:41PM -0500, Howard W. Smith, Jr. wrote: On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 2:08 PM, André Warnier a...@ice-sa.com wrote: Either people don't read the rules, or they do not understand the rule, or they just ignore it. I agree. As a tomcat/tomee user, I joined the list, primarily, to listen in on topics (that interest me), so I learned, very quickly, that top-posting is not preferred, here. I may have said this before, but: too bad there is no standard List-Rules: header to provide machine-readable hints, so that a conforming UA could remember them from the subscription response or latest-read message and at least give the user some suggestions. Rules like no attachments could be acted on by the UA; rules like no top-posting require human judgment but could be advertized by the UI. Slow down, maverick: let mail UA's properly handle existing standards, first. Then invent new ones. So we'll be ready for this kind of thing in maybe AD 2197. Just what we need: a bunch of nerds all using Eudora, Thunderbird, and Pine yelling at the whole world of people still using Apple Mail, Outlook, etc. whose UAs don't auto-handle those standards. We'd just be moving the problem from users who won't follow the rules to UAs who won't follow the rules. Also, it's hard to enforce context-specific replies (which, to me, are the most useful) rather than strict top-posting versus bottom-posting. That being said, it would be really cool if it were practical to have such list hints. - -chris -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1 Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJS4sd0AAoJEBzwKT+lPKRYN9YP/iDsH0ZVa5QVmA4dnXkKVpp+ nF/MEhvc5ZjmQkg+e+zOJdJzgbcDMJqbEP5iLC0VWUQdEdUYhh3J1uibRbDOhcXp Q9GTn9V/EqEG45g8sPZ8qc7ZynWLytJNX5HIRZ1nLTNOQLbNGy1IuE+9Vyf+r3+8 fGcNiGdZvy1l5+Xi+9j5vJmz1YyEShvzNGGBwW9E4KzLSI6j/njTGYIj3FtGDJYA QzMvky1X++ig0NNCDQRHYu/MYPdy2jVfWtetBUK++tStfeMvDTSpjSE/R6xg0cdR jeh1Q1uCOgNNuL9Fb+w8jMGIZA5agLCLy+1ehgCu3BqwycijdY9dHcJedKNJDuO5 OsK6CktE/N2XiDdYif4d8yGQ16xnEFR1OGyIfKfSDEnqFtxIo7pbOluwOhC0XgIz jfN/yYi52JFw7hIsfQuvXoWZ3QZeEbXJWTUcW8quBaWY+xPMCPPi544YFTRoBjJr 1ylY4rcHH+fa78gYX29bK2t8dUG7/0bsZdOs49Ps6Q2XiZE7wqT6xJT30Wow+2w6 gUBMBaD5Zynl/wigExN5tPZMWV9KrW0RNtXuz6JRI5lUW/P30CrPNIpUTH4szfNC LuZFeMc1L20U5AwykbzMlkGzR4GB/1TuExvESVKt0Ux9Q/k9nOXBQ15yjvgd4leq 5ChZHDksqLMIXqcADs3L =OiyX -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org
