Re: [OT] of the different methods to get a user-id
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Peter, On 2/17/2009 5:08 AM, Peter Crowther wrote: From: Christopher Schultz [mailto:ch...@christopherschultz.net] IMHO, you either have control of your production environment yourself (and can do whatever you want) or you have an ops team with complete control of your production environment (and they ought to be able to handle scary stuff like scheduling cron jobs and running shell scripts) or you have no control whatsoever and therefore do not have a production environment. Chris, how would you handle the case of writing software for installation by third parties in environments over which you have no control? Those third parties' environments are still production environments, but you have no control over them. I see that situation as a special case of you have an OPS team. If your customers want to control their boxes, they should know how to do thing like schedule jobs. Maintaining server software just isn't as simple as babysitting something like Microsoft Office. Customers have to understand that. Those customers who aren't qualified to maintain their installations of your server software should start paying YOU to maintain them properly. That's another revenue stream for you. Be happy! - -chris -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkmcWVcACgkQ9CaO5/Lv0PCu4gCgs/GdyLEtpfatGosImZtlPs5N uyEAoKxUcaZNt8PnMpWZcEBsovhSrMq9 =y5MR -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org
RE: [OT] of the different methods to get a user-id
From: Christopher Schultz [mailto:ch...@christopherschultz.net] IMHO, you either have control of your production environment yourself (and can do whatever you want) or you have an ops team with complete control of your production environment (and they ought to be able to handle scary stuff like scheduling cron jobs and running shell scripts) or you have no control whatsoever and therefore do not have a production environment. Chris, how would you handle the case of writing software for installation by third parties in environments over which you have no control? Those third parties' environments are still production environments, but you have no control over them. - Peter - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org
Re: [OT] of the different methods to get a user-id
Just in case it was missed in the subsequent conflagration (and I always marvel at how easy it is to start a conflagration by saying something like language X is better than language Y), I would just like to state that my blurb was meant to be taken lightly, with ;-) and so on. Comparing programming languages is a lot like comparing Microsoft software to Open Source, or comparing car brands, or (in my younger times) comparing stereo brands, etc.. One more thing I would like to add however to all the Java crazies around here, at least the open-minded subset of them : perl is fun. I am not saying that it is the ideal language to develop a large application with a team of people, and I am not saying that it is faster or better or uses less memory or any of these things (though it does, really). But it is, definitely, more /fun/ than Java. And you can do serious things with it too. And a serious tip : if you are ever in the situation of having to start a new project on some theme you know nothing about (say, credit card payments, or talking to Amazon, or filtering emails, or reading meta-data in photos, or stemming German words, or authenticating against OpenId,..), then you could do worse than first having a look at the Perl module library (http://kobesearch.cpan.org/), and perusing the perl modules documentation. Even if you know nothing of perl and don't want to know anything about it, the documentation of these (hundreds of) modules, all in one place and searchable, is one of the best sources of information I know. It is like a Wikipedia of everything one can do with software. And if in addition to be a Java fan, you're also an OO fan, search for class. Don't the names just sound like fun ? Is there, by the way, any comparable source for Java libraries ? - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org
RE: [OT] of the different methods to get a user-id
From: Ken Bowen [mailto:kbo...@als.com] The only thing more fiery than language X is better than language Y is editor Z is better than editor W :-) To skip a few levels in the inevitable impending debate... Well I edited the inodes by hand. With magnets. (http://www.userfriendly.org) - Peter - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org
Re: [OT] of the different methods to get a user-id
The only thing more fiery than language X is better than language Y is editor Z is better than editor W :-) On Feb 17, 2009, at 9:45 AM, André Warnier wrote: language X is better than language Y - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org
Re: [OT] of the different methods to get a user-id
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Chuck, On 2/12/2009 10:27 PM, Caldarale, Charles R wrote: From: Christopher Schultz [mailto:ch...@christopherschultz.net] Subject: Re: [OT] of the different methods to get a user-id I don't understand that, either. I suppose this works differently in different languages, though: return i++; return (i++); Not any that I'm aware of; the value of the i++ expression is the same, regardless of the number of parentheses you wrap it in. But sometimes the value is surprising. For instance. i = i++ yields different results depending on what language you are using. C and Java produce different outputs (which really surprised me!). What I also don't understand is why userPrincipal is used directly instead of this.getUserPrincipal, which would allow some measure of extensibility of the class. Since the userPrincipal field is protected, not private, the subclass can just use it to store its Principal object, so I don't see a real problem. I'm not saying it's not legal, I'm just saying it's not extensible. If a superclass wants to override getUserPrincipal for some reason, the subclass doesn't benefit (or doesn't work, in certain situations). Thsi is one of the reasons I hate using protected members: members become part of the interface, which is ... weird. - -chris -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkmZ1jkACgkQ9CaO5/Lv0PAu7ACeKb+mqxYgZbHC8VDd+PRQAsvZ B4MAnRYVo2/2eMA5ILWXGWvZik/2lJDo =5EcI -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org
Re: [OT] of the different methods to get a user-id
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 André, What the hell.. let's start a holy war?! On 2/13/2009 10:25 AM, André Warnier wrote: Their merit is all the greater since they work in the obscure non-graphical background, they never get any of the attention, and they have to share machines with some Java programs, which means they get only the usage of a tiny fraction of the RAM and CPU cycles, although they do most of the real work and have to do it with a single thread each. Hear, hear! Even some of the old-school programmers, mostly in their later years, succumb to the what-the-heck syndrome and come to appreciate the sense of security and comfort provided by strongly-typed and rigidly object-oriented languages Heck, lots of folks on this list won't even use cron to schedule jobs. Instead, they write web applications wrapped around Quartz because it's just easier to deploy or some other such nonsense. IMHO, you either have control of your production environment yourself (and can do whatever you want) or you have an ops team with complete control of your production environment (and they ought to be able to handle scary stuff like scheduling cron jobs and running shell scripts) or you have no control whatsoever and therefore do not have a production environment. There, I said it. :p On the other hand, seeing object-oriented perl really makes me queasy. - -chris -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkmZ2FIACgkQ9CaO5/Lv0PDOQgCeJno3T9D2GnoWpTFswcvInUCn zpcAnijMpytndgIfPe6knYmum47WOj56 =QFoD -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org
Re: [OT] of the different methods to get a user-id
Chris, I offer my opinions here as a real grey beard (literally). I certainly agree with you that people should have a breath of skills allowing them to use the right tool at the right time. However, notwithstanding the fact that the other day I worked out that I have actually used about 15 different programming languages in anger (that is, part of code used by other people) I have to admit that my occasional brush with Perl has been unrewarding (for both me and the language...) My biggest problem is that I've never seen a little bit of typing as a big issue, but reading and trying to understand something a few weeks/months/years later is always fraught with difficulties. The main problem with perl is that I can never remember exactly what #...@!$% means whereas something like getUserPrincipal() works for me! Regards Alan Chaney Christopher Schultz wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 André, What the hell.. let's start a holy war?! On 2/13/2009 10:25 AM, André Warnier wrote: Their merit is all the greater since they work in the obscure non-graphical background, they never get any of the attention, and they have to share machines with some Java programs, which means they get only the usage of a tiny fraction of the RAM and CPU cycles, although they do most of the real work and have to do it with a single thread each. Hear, hear! Even some of the old-school programmers, mostly in their later years, succumb to the what-the-heck syndrome and come to appreciate the sense of security and comfort provided by strongly-typed and rigidly object-oriented languages Heck, lots of folks on this list won't even use cron to schedule jobs. Instead, they write web applications wrapped around Quartz because it's just easier to deploy or some other such nonsense. IMHO, you either have control of your production environment yourself (and can do whatever you want) or you have an ops team with complete control of your production environment (and they ought to be able to handle scary stuff like scheduling cron jobs and running shell scripts) or you have no control whatsoever and therefore do not have a production environment. There, I said it. :p On the other hand, seeing object-oriented perl really makes me queasy. - -chris -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkmZ2FIACgkQ9CaO5/Lv0PDOQgCeJno3T9D2GnoWpTFswcvInUCn zpcAnijMpytndgIfPe6knYmum47WOj56 =QFoD -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org !DSPAM:4999da4713771562881678! - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org
RE: [OT] of the different methods to get a user-id
From: Christopher Schultz [mailto:ch...@christopherschultz.net] Subject: Re: [OT] of the different methods to get a user-id For instance. i = i++ yields different results depending on what language you are using. C and Java produce different outputs (which really surprised me!). Java explicitly defines the behavior of the above statement, whereas the C standard does not, and leaves it up to the implementation to decide what to do. However, on almost every platform I have access to right at this moment (Windows, Linux, proprietary), printing the value of i after your test statement in both C and Java displayed the original value of i (as expected), not the increment thereof. The one problematic environment that gave the unexpected answer was Visual C++ 6.0 on Windows (gee, Microsoft ignores standard practice? who would a-thunk it); gcc on Windows worked properly. - Chuck THIS COMMUNICATION MAY CONTAIN CONFIDENTIAL AND/OR OTHERWISE PROPRIETARY MATERIAL and is thus for use only by the intended recipient. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the e-mail and its attachments from all computers. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org
Re: [OT] of the different methods to get a user-id
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Chuck,
On 2/16/2009 5:19 PM, Caldarale, Charles R wrote:
From: Christopher Schultz [mailto:ch...@christopherschultz.net]
Subject: Re: [OT] of the different methods to get a user-id
For instance.
i = i++
yields different results depending on what language
you are using. C and Java produce different outputs
(which really surprised me!).
Java explicitly defines the behavior of the above statement, whereas
the C standard does not, and leaves it up to the implementation to
decide what to do. However, on almost every platform I have access to
right at this moment (Windows, Linux, proprietary), printing the value
of i after your test statement in both C and Java displayed the original
value of i (as expected), not the increment thereof.
$ java -version
java version 1.5.0_13
Java(TM) 2 Runtime Environment, Standard Edition (build 1.5.0_13-b05)
Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM (build 1.5.0_13-b05, mixed mode)
$ javac PostIncrementTest.java (see below)
$ java PostIncrementTest
0
0
0
$ cc --version
gcc (GCC) 4.1.2 (Gentoo 4.1.2 p1.1)
Copyright (C) 2006 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
This is free software; see the source for copying conditions. There is NO
warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.
$ cc -o post_increment_test post_increment_test.c (see below)
$ ./post_increment_test
0 0 1
$
I'm not sure what to say. Here are the sources:
post_increment_test.c:
#include stdio.h
int main() {
printf(%d %d %d\n, test1(), test2(), test3());
return 0;
}
int test1() {
int i = 0;
return i++;
}
int test2() {
int i = 0;
return (i++);
}
int test3() {
int i = 0;
i = i++;
return i;
}
PostIncrementTest.java:
public class PostIncrementTest
{
public static void main(String[] args)
{
System.out.println(test1());
System.out.println(test2());
System.out.println(test3());
}
public static int test1()
{
int i=0;
return i++;
}
public static int test2()
{
int i=0;
return (i++);
}
public static int test3()
{
int i=0;
i = i++;
return i;
}
}
The one problematic environment that gave the unexpected answer was
Visual C++ 6.0 on Windows (gee, Microsoft ignores standard practice?
who would a-thunk it); gcc on Windows worked properly.
Do you mean gcc on win32 worked as you expected? As you said, C does not
define this behavior, so proper is in the eye...
- -chris
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RE: [OT] of the different methods to get a user-id
From: Christopher Schultz [mailto:ch...@christopherschultz.net] Subject: Re: [OT] of the different methods to get a user-id Do you mean gcc on win32 worked as you expected? Yes, it produced the same results as Java. - Chuck THIS COMMUNICATION MAY CONTAIN CONFIDENTIAL AND/OR OTHERWISE PROPRIETARY MATERIAL and is thus for use only by the intended recipient. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the e-mail and its attachments from all computers. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org
Re: [OT] of the different methods to get a user-id
Caldarale, Charles R wrote: From: Christopher Schultz [mailto:ch...@christopherschultz.net] Subject: Re: [OT] of the different methods to get a user-id I don't understand that, either. I suppose this works differently in different languages, though: return i++; return (i++); Not any that I'm aware of; the value of the i++ expression is the same, regardless of the number of parentheses you wrap it in. I tried in C and Java and got the same result (both return the original value of i), though I would have expected something different. Nope; the parentheses in such a statement control only operator precedence, not anything else. Don't confuse parentheses used in an expression with those used for function calls or if/while statements - they're syntactically different, even if they share the same code point. I was going to let that one pass, but now I'm provoked. The expressions above do work differently in Perl. 1) caller side : a) my $var = getRemoteUser(); sets a /scalar/ context for the call. Means that the caller expects a single value in return. b) my @var = getRemoteUser(); sets a /list/ context for the call. Indicates that the caller expects a list (an array) in return. 2) callee side : a) return i++; Returns the value of i prior to the post-increment, as a scalar value. So it fits with 1a. b) return (i++); Returns a list composed of 1 element : the value of i before the post-increment. So it fits with 1b. But.. if you combine the call 1a my $var = getRemoteUser(); with the version 2b : return (i++) then when you get in $var is 1, always. That is because since my $var = getRemoteUser(); expects a scalar, but what it gets is a list, it does an implicit my $var = (list), which equivalent to my $var = scalar(list) which returns the number of elements present in the array/list. However, the calle sub can be cleverer and anticipate this, by doing : return wantarray ? (i++) : i++; thus checking in which context it is being called, and returning the appropriate form of response. Perl is great ! - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org
RE: [OT] of the different methods to get a user-id
From: André Warnier [mailto:a...@ice-sa.com] I was going to let that one pass, but now I'm provoked. The expressions above do work differently in Perl. [...] However, the calle sub can be cleverer and anticipate this, by doing : return wantarray ? (i++) : i++; thus checking in which context it is being called, and returning the appropriate form of response. Perl is great ! Thank you. Although I don't need any further reasons to avoid that camel of a language whenever I can, it's always nice to find another really good reason to avoid it... - Peter - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org
RE: [OT] of the different methods to get a user-id
From: Peter Crowther [mailto:peter.crowt...@melandra.com] Subject: RE: [OT] of the different methods to get a user-id Thank you. Although I don't need any further reasons to avoid that camel of a language whenever I can, it's always nice to find another really good reason to avoid it... Hear, hear! In a past life, a guy I know actually wrote a suite of production programs in APL - which was even more cryptic (but also more logical) than Perl. - Chuck THIS COMMUNICATION MAY CONTAIN CONFIDENTIAL AND/OR OTHERWISE PROPRIETARY MATERIAL and is thus for use only by the intended recipient. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the e-mail and its attachments from all computers. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org
RE: [OT] of the different methods to get a user-id
From: Caldarale, Charles R [mailto:chuck.caldar...@unisys.com] Hear, hear! In a past life, a guy I know actually wrote a suite of production programs in APL - which was even more cryptic (but also more logical) than Perl. Dedication indeed! Did he need the custom golfball for the teletype with the special symbols, or was the interface a little more modern than that? - Peter - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org
Re: [OT] of the different methods to get a user-id
Peter Crowther wrote: From: Caldarale, Charles R [mailto:chuck.caldar...@unisys.com] Hear, hear! In a past life, a guy I know actually wrote a suite of production programs in APL - which was even more cryptic (but also more logical) than Perl. Dedication indeed! Did he need the custom golfball for the teletype with the special symbols, or was the interface a little more modern than that? I have to admit that we have several production applications written almost entirely in Perl. They chug along since several years, processing several thousand documents a day, from MS-Word through PDFs to CAD/CAM drawings and emails, digesting them and making them searchable for grateful users. Their merit is all the greater since they work in the obscure non-graphical background, they never get any of the attention, and they have to share machines with some Java programs, which means they get only the usage of a tiny fraction of the RAM and CPU cycles, although they do most of the real work and have to do it with a single thread each. But such is the the deplorable state of our educational systems nowadays that one can no longer find real sharp logical young minds capable of designing efficient and reliable systems from scratch. So one has to depend instead on rigid frameworks and on programming languages like Java, which severely constrain the programmer's imagination, but make it less likely that one would land in trouble. Even some of the old-school programmers, mostly in their later years, succumb to the what-the-heck syndrome and come to appreciate the sense of security and comfort provided by strongly-typed and rigidly object-oriented languages, with which one can just dedicate one thread to collect the memory garbage left over by sloppy programs, another to collect loose database connections, another to kill off poor abandoned objects, another to optimise badly-written lines of code etc. One has to wonder however if some day, the same kind of meltdown as we are currently seeing in the bloated world of finance, will not strike these over-engineered monsters, and if there will not be massive thread and memory layoffs. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org
Re: [OT] of the different methods to get a user-id
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Chuck,
On 2/12/2009 1:22 PM, Caldarale, Charles R wrote:
As Pid surmised, it's not Tomcat that is giving you different
answers.
Here's Tomcat's implementation of HttpServletRequest.getRemoteUser():
public String getRemoteUser() {
if (userPrincipal != null) {
return (userPrincipal.getName());
} else {
return (null);
}
}
[Aside: Don't know why people think return statements need
parentheses; maybe they get paid for programming based on the number of
characters used.]
I don't understand that, either. I suppose this works differently in
different languages, though:
return i++;
return (i++);
I tried in C and Java and got the same result (both return the original
value of i), though I would have expected something different. Not sure
what, though.
What I also don't understand is why userPrincipal is used directly
instead of this.getUserPrincipal, which would allow some measure of
extensibility of the class.
Oh, well.
- -chris
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RE: [OT] of the different methods to get a user-id
From: Christopher Schultz [mailto:ch...@christopherschultz.net] Subject: Re: [OT] of the different methods to get a user-id I don't understand that, either. I suppose this works differently in different languages, though: return i++; return (i++); Not any that I'm aware of; the value of the i++ expression is the same, regardless of the number of parentheses you wrap it in. I tried in C and Java and got the same result (both return the original value of i), though I would have expected something different. Nope; the parentheses in such a statement control only operator precedence, not anything else. Don't confuse parentheses used in an expression with those used for function calls or if/while statements - they're syntactically different, even if they share the same code point. What I also don't understand is why userPrincipal is used directly instead of this.getUserPrincipal, which would allow some measure of extensibility of the class. Since the userPrincipal field is protected, not private, the subclass can just use it to store its Principal object, so I don't see a real problem. - Chuck THIS COMMUNICATION MAY CONTAIN CONFIDENTIAL AND/OR OTHERWISE PROPRIETARY MATERIAL and is thus for use only by the intended recipient. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the e-mail and its attachments from all computers. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org
