Re: Session Persistence Problems -- Epilog
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 Jerry, On 4/11/19 19:34, Jerry Malcolm wrote: > > On 4/11/2019 5:05 PM, Jerry Malcolm wrote: >> On 4/11/2019 4:22 PM, Christopher Schultz wrote: >>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 >>> >>> Jerry, >>> >>> On 4/11/19 15:29, Jerry Malcolm wrote: Alternatively, if I had a better understanding of how sessions are managed by both TC and the browser, it might help me figure out what is going wrong. I know a session key is generated by TC and sent back in a response. And I'm assuming that the browser must return that session key on subsequent calls. But if there are several webapps on domain, how does the browser differentiate which session key to send back on a subsequent response? Is it just understood that the first 'folder' level under the domain (i.e. context name) is always a different session key? (myDomain.com/order vs. myDomain/account)? Or does the browser send all session keys back per domain and let TC figure out which one, if any, to use? Again, just looking for a little education here >>> Do you know if HTTP cookies or URL-parameters are being used >>> for session-management? If you aren't sure, try logging-in to >>> your application and look at the URLs and cookies. >>> >>> Typically, a web application will use cookies with the name >>> JSESSIONID. If the session identifier is tracked in the URL, >>> then you'll see ";jsessionid=[id]" in your URLs after the path >>> but before the query string. >>> >>> It's very easy to "lose" a URL-tracked session id because every >>> single URL generated by your application must include that >>> parameter. A sinle miss can cause the session to be lost by the >>> client. If you are using SSO (always with a cookie), it can >>> mask the dropping of the session in this way. >>> >>> It's harder to "lose" a session cookie since the browser >>> typically manages that. Cookies are tracked per web-application >>> using each application's path. The browser should only return a >>> single cookie for a given path. If you have applications that >>> share a URL space (e.g. /master and /master/sub and >>> /master/sub2) then things can get very confusing for the >>> browser and the server. It's best not to overlap URL-spaces in >>> this way. >>> >>> Are you using clustering or anything else like that which might >>> also cause session-ids to change? >>> >>> - -chris >> >> Thank you so much for the info... I think we're getting >> somewhere I am definitely using cookies and not url parms for >> the session id. (no clustering). I went into the firefox >> debugger and located the cookie storage for the site. I found a >> cookie for each webapp context that I am using. That makes >> sense. I think I know what is happening. Correct my >> assumptions here: >> >> I have a webapp with context /order. There is a JSESSIONID >> cookie for /order as expected. I assume that every time I send a >> URL from the browser with the /order context, the browser will >> correctly send the /order session cookie. So far, so good... >> >> But I have a rewrite rule "/storefront" that maps to one of >> the /order urls. I assume the browser knows nothing about >> rewrites, so the browser is going to assume that "/storefront" is >> simply a different webapp context that it doesn't have a session >> id cookie for, and therefore doesn't send anything. Therefore, >> when the rewritten url becomes another /order url, TC gets an >> /order request but with no session id, and therefore creates a >> new session and sends it back for the browser to store (replace) >> as the /order session id. >> >> So assuming I have analyzed this correctly, that can explain >> precisely what I'm seeing. Understanding the problem is a big >> step... But now I have to figure out how to get around it and >> make it do what I want. At this point, I see three options: >> >> 1) remove all rewrites from httpd. That is going to be massive, >> very difficult, and non-trivial. And I'll also have to come up >> with way to handle multi-client variations, etc. that I have been >> mapping by simply using different rewrites on each site. This >> one is not even close to my first choice >> >> 2) Could I perhaps send my own additional JSESSIONID cookies with >> the current "/order" session id for the rewrite 'fake contexts' >> such as "/storefront" so that the browser will basically send a >> copy of the /order session id with the /storefront url? >> >> 3) I really don't care to have separate sessions for each webapp >> context anyway. In fact, I'd prefer it if there was one session >> / sessionId for the enter application (all 10 contexts). Is >> there any way to send the session id cookie keyed as simply "/" >> instead of "/"? All URLs to the domain whether rewrite >> aliases or actually urls would match this one JSESSIONID cookie >> and therefore would
Re: Session Persistence Problems
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 Jerry, On 4/11/19 18:05, Jerry Malcolm wrote: > On 4/11/2019 4:22 PM, Christopher Schultz wrote: >> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 >> >> Jerry, >> >> On 4/11/19 15:29, Jerry Malcolm wrote: >>> Alternatively, if I had a better understanding of how sessions >>> are managed by both TC and the browser, it might help me figure >>> out what is going wrong. I know a session key is generated by >>> TC and sent back in a response. And I'm assuming that the >>> browser must return that session key on subsequent calls. But >>> if there are several webapps on domain, how does the browser >>> differentiate which session key to send back on a subsequent >>> response? Is it just understood that the first 'folder' level >>> under the domain (i.e. context name) is always a different >>> session key? (myDomain.com/order vs. myDomain/account)? Or >>> does the browser send all session keys back per domain and let >>> TC figure out which one, if any, to use? Again, just looking >>> for a little education here >> Do you know if HTTP cookies or URL-parameters are being used for >> session-management? If you aren't sure, try logging-in to your >> application and look at the URLs and cookies. >> >> Typically, a web application will use cookies with the name >> JSESSIONID. If the session identifier is tracked in the URL, >> then you'll see ";jsessionid=[id]" in your URLs after the path >> but before the query string. >> >> It's very easy to "lose" a URL-tracked session id because every >> single URL generated by your application must include that >> parameter. A sinle miss can cause the session to be lost by the >> client. If you are using SSO (always with a cookie), it can mask >> the dropping of the session in this way. >> >> It's harder to "lose" a session cookie since the browser >> typically manages that. Cookies are tracked per web-application >> using each application's path. The browser should only return a >> single cookie for a given path. If you have applications that >> share a URL space (e.g. /master and /master/sub and /master/sub2) >> then things can get very confusing for the browser and the >> server. It's best not to overlap URL-spaces in this way. >> >> Are you using clustering or anything else like that which might >> also cause session-ids to change? >> >> - -chris > > Thank you so much for the info... I think we're getting > somewhere I am definitely using cookies and not url parms for > the session id. (no clustering). I went into the firefox debugger > and located the cookie storage for the site. I found a cookie for > each webapp context that I am using. That makes sense. I think I > know what is happening. Correct my assumptions here: > > I have a webapp with context /order. There is a JSESSIONID cookie > for /order as expected. I assume that every time I send a URL from > the browser with the /order context, the browser will correctly > send the /order session cookie. So far, so good... > > But I have a rewrite rule "/storefront" that maps to one of > the /order urls. Hmm... > I assume the browser knows nothing about rewrites, so the browser > is going to assume that "/storefront" is simply a different webapp > context that it doesn't have a session id cookie for, and therefore > doesn't send anything. Yes, exactly. > Therefore, when the rewritten url becomes another /order url, TC > gets an /order request but with no session id, and therefore > creates a new session and sends it back for the browser to store > (replace) as the /order session id. Correct. Had the rewrite been done as a REDIRECT, the browser would have made a second request which would have included the (correct) session cookie. Since your rewriting happens exclusively on the server-end, the cookie is not available. > So assuming I have analyzed this correctly, that can explain > precisely what I'm seeing. Understanding the problem is a big > step... But now I have to figure out how to get around it and make > it do what I want. At this point, I see three options: > > 1) remove all rewrites from httpd. That is going to be massive, > very difficult, and non-trivial. And I'll also have to come up > with way to handle multi-client variations, etc. that I have been > mapping by simply using different rewrites on each site. This one > is not even close to my first choice You may not have to give-up ALL rewrites. Just the problematic ones. you might even be able to convert the rewrites into redirects. That doesn't help you with SEO (lol) but it will take a broken application and make it work again without too much hassle. > 2) Could I perhaps send my own additional JSESSIONID cookies with > the current "/order" session id for the rewrite 'fake contexts' > such as "/storefront" so that the browser will basically send a > copy of the /order session id with the /storefront url? That would be very difficult to accomplish.
Re: Session Persistence Problems
Thanks, Luis. I tried that. And it indeed does store only one session cookie for the entire domain. But it does not change the fact that if you have two webapps in the same domain (contexts), you still have two different sessions and therefore two different session ids. You now just have one place to store both, and the cookie will always be replaced with id from the last call, throwing away the session id from the previous call. When you call context A, the cookie is set to context A session id. When you next call context B, the cookie is replaced with context B session id. The you call context A again, it has to create a new session since it doesn't recognize context B's session id. If it was possible to have all contexts share the SAME session (and session id), this would be perfect. But from what I understand it is not possible to share the same session across multiple contexts. Am I correct, or is there indeed a way to have one session for all contexts (not crosscontext access to other sessions... truly only ONE session used by all contexts)? Jerry On 4/12/2019 2:17 AM, Luis Rodríguez Fernández wrote: Hello Jerry, Sure, you can always set the path of your cookies to "/" via the cookie-config element [1] in your web.xml descriptor: / Or via your context.xml [2] Hope it helps, Luis [1] https://javaee.github.io/servlet-spec/downloads/servlet-4.0/servlet-4_0_FINAL.pdf [2] https://tomcat.apache.org/tomcat-9.0-doc/config/context.html El vie., 12 abr. 2019 a las 0:14, Jerry Malcolm () escribió: On 4/11/2019 4:22 PM, Christopher Schultz wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 Jerry, On 4/11/19 15:29, Jerry Malcolm wrote: Alternatively, if I had a better understanding of how sessions are managed by both TC and the browser, it might help me figure out what is going wrong. I know a session key is generated by TC and sent back in a response. And I'm assuming that the browser must return that session key on subsequent calls. But if there are several webapps on domain, how does the browser differentiate which session key to send back on a subsequent response? Is it just understood that the first 'folder' level under the domain (i.e. context name) is always a different session key? (myDomain.com/order vs. myDomain/account)? Or does the browser send all session keys back per domain and let TC figure out which one, if any, to use? Again, just looking for a little education here Do you know if HTTP cookies or URL-parameters are being used for session-management? If you aren't sure, try logging-in to your application and look at the URLs and cookies. Typically, a web application will use cookies with the name JSESSIONID. If the session identifier is tracked in the URL, then you'll see ";jsessionid=[id]" in your URLs after the path but before the query string. It's very easy to "lose" a URL-tracked session id because every single URL generated by your application must include that parameter. A sinle miss can cause the session to be lost by the client. If you are using SSO (always with a cookie), it can mask the dropping of the session in this way. It's harder to "lose" a session cookie since the browser typically manages that. Cookies are tracked per web-application using each application's path. The browser should only return a single cookie for a given path. If you have applications that share a URL space (e.g. /master and /master/sub and /master/sub2) then things can get very confusing for the browser and the server. It's best not to overlap URL-spaces in this way. Are you using clustering or anything else like that which might also cause session-ids to change? - -chris Thank you so much for the info... I think we're getting somewhere I am definitely using cookies and not url parms for the session id. (no clustering). I went into the firefox debugger and located the cookie storage for the site. I found a cookie for each webapp context that I am using. That makes sense. I think I know what is happening. Correct my assumptions here: I have a webapp with context /order. There is a JSESSIONID cookie for /order as expected. I assume that every time I send a URL from the browser with the /order context, the browser will correctly send the /order session cookie. So far, so good... But I have a rewrite rule "/storefront" that maps to one of the /order urls. I assume the browser knows nothing about rewrites, so the browser is going to assume that "/storefront" is simply a different webapp context that it doesn't have a session id cookie for, and therefore doesn't send anything. Therefore, when the rewritten url becomes another /order url, TC gets an /order request but with no session id, and therefore creates a new session and sends it back for the browser to store (replace) as the /order session id. So assuming I have analyzed this correctly, that can explain precisely what I'm seeing.
Re: Session Persistence Problems
Hello Jerry, Sure, you can always set the path of your cookies to "/" via the cookie-config element [1] in your web.xml descriptor: / Or via your context.xml [2] Hope it helps, Luis [1] https://javaee.github.io/servlet-spec/downloads/servlet-4.0/servlet-4_0_FINAL.pdf [2] https://tomcat.apache.org/tomcat-9.0-doc/config/context.html El vie., 12 abr. 2019 a las 0:14, Jerry Malcolm () escribió: > On 4/11/2019 4:22 PM, Christopher Schultz wrote: > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > > Hash: SHA256 > > > > Jerry, > > > > On 4/11/19 15:29, Jerry Malcolm wrote: > >> Alternatively, if I had a better understanding of how sessions are > >> managed by both TC and the browser, it might help me figure out > >> what is going wrong. I know a session key is generated by TC and > >> sent back in a response. And I'm assuming that the browser must > >> return that session key on subsequent calls. But if there are > >> several webapps on domain, how does the browser differentiate which > >> session key to send back on a subsequent response? Is it just > >> understood that the first 'folder' level under the domain (i.e. > >> context name) is always a different session key? > >> (myDomain.com/order vs. myDomain/account)? Or does the browser > >> send all session keys back per domain and let TC figure out which > >> one, if any, to use? Again, just looking for a little education > >> here > > Do you know if HTTP cookies or URL-parameters are being used for > > session-management? If you aren't sure, try logging-in to your > > application and look at the URLs and cookies. > > > > Typically, a web application will use cookies with the name > > JSESSIONID. If the session identifier is tracked in the URL, then > > you'll see ";jsessionid=[id]" in your URLs after the path but before > > the query string. > > > > It's very easy to "lose" a URL-tracked session id because every single > > URL generated by your application must include that parameter. A sinle > > miss can cause the session to be lost by the client. If you are using > > SSO (always with a cookie), it can mask the dropping of the session in > > this way. > > > > It's harder to "lose" a session cookie since the browser typically > > manages that. Cookies are tracked per web-application using each > > application's path. The browser should only return a single cookie for > > a given path. If you have applications that share a URL space (e.g. > > /master and /master/sub and /master/sub2) then things can get very > > confusing for the browser and the server. It's best not to overlap > > URL-spaces in this way. > > > > Are you using clustering or anything else like that which might also > > cause session-ids to change? > > > > - -chris > > Thank you so much for the info... I think we're getting somewhere I > am definitely using cookies and not url parms for the session id. (no > clustering). I went into the firefox debugger and located the cookie > storage for the site. I found a cookie for each webapp context that I > am using. That makes sense. I think I know what is happening. > Correct my assumptions here: > > I have a webapp with context /order. There is a JSESSIONID cookie for > /order as expected. I assume that every time I send a URL from the > browser with the /order context, the browser will correctly send the > /order session cookie. So far, so good... > > But I have a rewrite rule "/storefront" that maps to one of the > /order urls. I assume the browser knows nothing about rewrites, so the > browser is going to assume that "/storefront" is simply a different > webapp context that it doesn't have a session id cookie for, and > therefore doesn't send anything. Therefore, when the rewritten url > becomes another /order url, TC gets an /order request but with no > session id, and therefore creates a new session and sends it back for > the browser to store (replace) as the /order session id. > > So assuming I have analyzed this correctly, that can explain precisely > what I'm seeing. Understanding the problem is a big step... But now I > have to figure out how to get around it and make it do what I want. At > this point, I see three options: > > 1) remove all rewrites from httpd. That is going to be massive, very > difficult, and non-trivial. And I'll also have to come up with way to > handle multi-client variations, etc. that I have been mapping by simply > using different rewrites on each site. This one is not even close to my > first choice > > 2) Could I perhaps send my own additional JSESSIONID cookies with the > current "/order" session id for the rewrite 'fake contexts' such as > "/storefront" so that the browser will basically send a copy of the > /order session id with the /storefront url? > > 3) I really don't care to have separate sessions for each webapp context > anyway. In fact, I'd prefer it if there was one session / sessionId for > the enter application (all
Re: Session Persistence Problems -- Epilog
On 4/11/2019 5:05 PM, Jerry Malcolm wrote: On 4/11/2019 4:22 PM, Christopher Schultz wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 Jerry, On 4/11/19 15:29, Jerry Malcolm wrote: Alternatively, if I had a better understanding of how sessions are managed by both TC and the browser, it might help me figure out what is going wrong. I know a session key is generated by TC and sent back in a response. And I'm assuming that the browser must return that session key on subsequent calls. But if there are several webapps on domain, how does the browser differentiate which session key to send back on a subsequent response? Is it just understood that the first 'folder' level under the domain (i.e. context name) is always a different session key? (myDomain.com/order vs. myDomain/account)? Or does the browser send all session keys back per domain and let TC figure out which one, if any, to use? Again, just looking for a little education here Do you know if HTTP cookies or URL-parameters are being used for session-management? If you aren't sure, try logging-in to your application and look at the URLs and cookies. Typically, a web application will use cookies with the name JSESSIONID. If the session identifier is tracked in the URL, then you'll see ";jsessionid=[id]" in your URLs after the path but before the query string. It's very easy to "lose" a URL-tracked session id because every single URL generated by your application must include that parameter. A sinle miss can cause the session to be lost by the client. If you are using SSO (always with a cookie), it can mask the dropping of the session in this way. It's harder to "lose" a session cookie since the browser typically manages that. Cookies are tracked per web-application using each application's path. The browser should only return a single cookie for a given path. If you have applications that share a URL space (e.g. /master and /master/sub and /master/sub2) then things can get very confusing for the browser and the server. It's best not to overlap URL-spaces in this way. Are you using clustering or anything else like that which might also cause session-ids to change? - -chris Thank you so much for the info... I think we're getting somewhere I am definitely using cookies and not url parms for the session id. (no clustering). I went into the firefox debugger and located the cookie storage for the site. I found a cookie for each webapp context that I am using. That makes sense. I think I know what is happening. Correct my assumptions here: I have a webapp with context /order. There is a JSESSIONID cookie for /order as expected. I assume that every time I send a URL from the browser with the /order context, the browser will correctly send the /order session cookie. So far, so good... But I have a rewrite rule "/storefront" that maps to one of the /order urls. I assume the browser knows nothing about rewrites, so the browser is going to assume that "/storefront" is simply a different webapp context that it doesn't have a session id cookie for, and therefore doesn't send anything. Therefore, when the rewritten url becomes another /order url, TC gets an /order request but with no session id, and therefore creates a new session and sends it back for the browser to store (replace) as the /order session id. So assuming I have analyzed this correctly, that can explain precisely what I'm seeing. Understanding the problem is a big step... But now I have to figure out how to get around it and make it do what I want. At this point, I see three options: 1) remove all rewrites from httpd. That is going to be massive, very difficult, and non-trivial. And I'll also have to come up with way to handle multi-client variations, etc. that I have been mapping by simply using different rewrites on each site. This one is not even close to my first choice 2) Could I perhaps send my own additional JSESSIONID cookies with the current "/order" session id for the rewrite 'fake contexts' such as "/storefront" so that the browser will basically send a copy of the /order session id with the /storefront url? 3) I really don't care to have separate sessions for each webapp context anyway. In fact, I'd prefer it if there was one session / sessionId for the enter application (all 10 contexts). Is there any way to send the session id cookie keyed as simply "/" instead of "/"? All URLs to the domain whether rewrite aliases or actually urls would match this one JSESSIONID cookie and therefore would always send the JSESSIONID. If that would work, that would solve everything and all rewrites would still work as they do now. Recommendation for which way to go? #3 is my favorite (but I like to dream...). But if #2 will work, I'll go with it. Just desperately trying to prevent having to do #1 Thanks again for all the help. Jerry I found the 'perfect' answer to my problem (I thought)
Re: Session Persistence Problems
This is a great information. I'd like to stray a little off topic if that's okay .. still in the same ballpark. I like to invent new doodads in software and see if I can do it better. Over the years, like many, I built-up a library of things that worked best for me over the years. One of those was the delegation of context management to my own code. I have Alias and Domain objects in my database that allow me to map URL's to domains (HTML5 applications that use some really lightweight server side JSON components). It works great and I can change configuration by updating the database. Awesome for deployment and configuration management. For now, I put a "deviceId" in localStorage on the browser (I'm only concerned in supporting modern browsers), and I send that with every request. Device is an object in my database as well, and I look up the device ID at the start of processing, which then can be associated with any number of other data/field level security measures. Rest assured, now, I've worked all this out, and I have developed dozens of applications that all work great. I could move deviceId to the header if I wanted to, or maybe a cookie. So far, I like it, it's fast, it's simple, and works great to solve session affinity problems. Local storage is mapped to the root domain, so I have access to my deviceId regardless of the context. My question is this .. how could this come back to bite me? I've enjoyed the convenience of SSO for all contexts deployed under a particular domain, but I would have a little code to write to do single sign on across domains because of the way the browser manages localStorage (I would do a simple token exchange to SSO, but I haven't had that use case, yet). I have always struggled to shoe-horn some of the session management into my (sometimes admittedly advanced and unpredictable) application requirements. Would love to hear your thoughts. Have a good one, John DB2DOM.COM On 4/11/19, Jerry Malcolm wrote: > On 4/11/2019 4:22 PM, Christopher Schultz wrote: >> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- >> Hash: SHA256 >> >> Jerry, >> >> On 4/11/19 15:29, Jerry Malcolm wrote: >>> Alternatively, if I had a better understanding of how sessions are >>> managed by both TC and the browser, it might help me figure out >>> what is going wrong. I know a session key is generated by TC and >>> sent back in a response. And I'm assuming that the browser must >>> return that session key on subsequent calls. But if there are >>> several webapps on domain, how does the browser differentiate which >>> session key to send back on a subsequent response? Is it just >>> understood that the first 'folder' level under the domain (i.e. >>> context name) is always a different session key? >>> (myDomain.com/order vs. myDomain/account)? Or does the browser >>> send all session keys back per domain and let TC figure out which >>> one, if any, to use? Again, just looking for a little education >>> here >> Do you know if HTTP cookies or URL-parameters are being used for >> session-management? If you aren't sure, try logging-in to your >> application and look at the URLs and cookies. >> >> Typically, a web application will use cookies with the name >> JSESSIONID. If the session identifier is tracked in the URL, then >> you'll see ";jsessionid=[id]" in your URLs after the path but before >> the query string. >> >> It's very easy to "lose" a URL-tracked session id because every single >> URL generated by your application must include that parameter. A sinle >> miss can cause the session to be lost by the client. If you are using >> SSO (always with a cookie), it can mask the dropping of the session in >> this way. >> >> It's harder to "lose" a session cookie since the browser typically >> manages that. Cookies are tracked per web-application using each >> application's path. The browser should only return a single cookie for >> a given path. If you have applications that share a URL space (e.g. >> /master and /master/sub and /master/sub2) then things can get very >> confusing for the browser and the server. It's best not to overlap >> URL-spaces in this way. >> >> Are you using clustering or anything else like that which might also >> cause session-ids to change? >> >> - -chris > > Thank you so much for the info... I think we're getting somewhere I > am definitely using cookies and not url parms for the session id. (no > clustering). I went into the firefox debugger and located the cookie > storage for the site. I found a cookie for each webapp context that I > am using. That makes sense. I think I know what is happening. > Correct my assumptions here: > > I have a webapp with context /order. There is a JSESSIONID cookie for > /order as expected. I assume that every time I send a URL from the > browser with the /order context, the browser will correctly send the > /order session cookie. So far, so good... > > But I have a rewrite rule "/storefront" that maps to one
Re: Session Persistence Problems
On 4/11/2019 4:22 PM, Christopher Schultz wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 Jerry, On 4/11/19 15:29, Jerry Malcolm wrote: Alternatively, if I had a better understanding of how sessions are managed by both TC and the browser, it might help me figure out what is going wrong. I know a session key is generated by TC and sent back in a response. And I'm assuming that the browser must return that session key on subsequent calls. But if there are several webapps on domain, how does the browser differentiate which session key to send back on a subsequent response? Is it just understood that the first 'folder' level under the domain (i.e. context name) is always a different session key? (myDomain.com/order vs. myDomain/account)? Or does the browser send all session keys back per domain and let TC figure out which one, if any, to use? Again, just looking for a little education here Do you know if HTTP cookies or URL-parameters are being used for session-management? If you aren't sure, try logging-in to your application and look at the URLs and cookies. Typically, a web application will use cookies with the name JSESSIONID. If the session identifier is tracked in the URL, then you'll see ";jsessionid=[id]" in your URLs after the path but before the query string. It's very easy to "lose" a URL-tracked session id because every single URL generated by your application must include that parameter. A sinle miss can cause the session to be lost by the client. If you are using SSO (always with a cookie), it can mask the dropping of the session in this way. It's harder to "lose" a session cookie since the browser typically manages that. Cookies are tracked per web-application using each application's path. The browser should only return a single cookie for a given path. If you have applications that share a URL space (e.g. /master and /master/sub and /master/sub2) then things can get very confusing for the browser and the server. It's best not to overlap URL-spaces in this way. Are you using clustering or anything else like that which might also cause session-ids to change? - -chris Thank you so much for the info... I think we're getting somewhere I am definitely using cookies and not url parms for the session id. (no clustering). I went into the firefox debugger and located the cookie storage for the site. I found a cookie for each webapp context that I am using. That makes sense. I think I know what is happening. Correct my assumptions here: I have a webapp with context /order. There is a JSESSIONID cookie for /order as expected. I assume that every time I send a URL from the browser with the /order context, the browser will correctly send the /order session cookie. So far, so good... But I have a rewrite rule "/storefront" that maps to one of the /order urls. I assume the browser knows nothing about rewrites, so the browser is going to assume that "/storefront" is simply a different webapp context that it doesn't have a session id cookie for, and therefore doesn't send anything. Therefore, when the rewritten url becomes another /order url, TC gets an /order request but with no session id, and therefore creates a new session and sends it back for the browser to store (replace) as the /order session id. So assuming I have analyzed this correctly, that can explain precisely what I'm seeing. Understanding the problem is a big step... But now I have to figure out how to get around it and make it do what I want. At this point, I see three options: 1) remove all rewrites from httpd. That is going to be massive, very difficult, and non-trivial. And I'll also have to come up with way to handle multi-client variations, etc. that I have been mapping by simply using different rewrites on each site. This one is not even close to my first choice 2) Could I perhaps send my own additional JSESSIONID cookies with the current "/order" session id for the rewrite 'fake contexts' such as "/storefront" so that the browser will basically send a copy of the /order session id with the /storefront url? 3) I really don't care to have separate sessions for each webapp context anyway. In fact, I'd prefer it if there was one session / sessionId for the enter application (all 10 contexts). Is there any way to send the session id cookie keyed as simply "/" instead of "/"? All URLs to the domain whether rewrite aliases or actually urls would match this one JSESSIONID cookie and therefore would always send the JSESSIONID. If that would work, that would solve everything and all rewrites would still work as they do now. Recommendation for which way to go? #3 is my favorite (but I like to dream...). But if #2 will work, I'll go with it. Just desperately trying to prevent having to do #1 Thanks again for all the help. Jerry - To unsubscribe, e-mail:
Re: Session Persistence Problems
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 Jerry, On 4/11/19 15:29, Jerry Malcolm wrote: > Alternatively, if I had a better understanding of how sessions are > managed by both TC and the browser, it might help me figure out > what is going wrong. I know a session key is generated by TC and > sent back in a response. And I'm assuming that the browser must > return that session key on subsequent calls. But if there are > several webapps on domain, how does the browser differentiate which > session key to send back on a subsequent response? Is it just > understood that the first 'folder' level under the domain (i.e. > context name) is always a different session key? > (myDomain.com/order vs. myDomain/account)? Or does the browser > send all session keys back per domain and let TC figure out which > one, if any, to use? Again, just looking for a little education > here Do you know if HTTP cookies or URL-parameters are being used for session-management? If you aren't sure, try logging-in to your application and look at the URLs and cookies. Typically, a web application will use cookies with the name JSESSIONID. If the session identifier is tracked in the URL, then you'll see ";jsessionid=[id]" in your URLs after the path but before the query string. It's very easy to "lose" a URL-tracked session id because every single URL generated by your application must include that parameter. A sinle miss can cause the session to be lost by the client. If you are using SSO (always with a cookie), it can mask the dropping of the session in this way. It's harder to "lose" a session cookie since the browser typically manages that. Cookies are tracked per web-application using each application's path. The browser should only return a single cookie for a given path. If you have applications that share a URL space (e.g. /master and /master/sub and /master/sub2) then things can get very confusing for the browser and the server. It's best not to overlap URL-spaces in this way. Are you using clustering or anything else like that which might also cause session-ids to change? - -chris -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - https://www.enigmail.net/ iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEMmKgYcQvxMe7tcJcHPApP6U8pFgFAlyvr/kACgkQHPApP6U8 pFg4KBAAi0qYZDxX0TGApjLOhwTqtP3u22tT9+JXEjcwylIfx+WaURgNTTgEUQQJ rJMkwBBugCU1cgusveBsAJUtuDhe9QMkmx0BKI4JF12hzy+nk8BN/yC0crcvfgfz NIfHWOHV2eczu5ZMDaYeyYOiUM27b+k4Xl0YR0xRtYeJ7/HdnxaklfPojXzFNUhJ vRa6GSjtgCI6JcW+eHPy5T2OmLtdYatHcY+S9qtOJvNsf3mf1WFDHCV6iHR+9NTP 2artOzKAOWe/HLoKo9h8tjSuzgMrodE2dnzdu/DUs1JJjDLl5INXp7WXR6z5BshB oK/op5+e7dV/7BONc9HHEh/99kivgEu86DQ3H6OfQF2+oNVy5kuyzY12/OMvJusg oppLZYV6XCVAUduwkP5W1SjBJWjDuUkQwtSRQ6O2Vren1wI3GIZtSvfZHygEM2Ht X67QyMLJQEh9yZedtdUF9gGJzkREnibxScBtFJc4HpuBezs1HQ4eOk2WTnTpmiAL w38IEM6b/9snSzHcqxXSkkx3vZjf3EuEfZKJwymzC5iHADo6KZsW+aYB4dzrFoJa E5xtJRKZT5i5CHLr7l5bmV4QifZrQa50UA47fe+KvfQiQJW5xZG2lTFl2as6bNGW 4EgcPk6yHDVaGF4xqBN84kp1fqJ++G0c32b/Ogm0Hwfm/ShOvCc= =9pTl -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org
Re: Session Persistence Problems
I'm looking forward to hearing from the dev folks on this. I suspect it has something to do with the context configuration. A long time ago, I started doing my own session management, but then I don't mind building out the pieces I needed for clustering. In fact, I decided to store session information in the database (persistent). That makes scaling easy. On 4/11/19, Jerry Malcolm wrote: > Alternatively, if I had a better understanding of how sessions are > managed by both TC and the browser, it might help me figure out what is > going wrong. I know a session key is generated by TC and sent back in a > response. And I'm assuming that the browser must return that session > key on subsequent calls. But if there are several webapps on domain, > how does the browser differentiate which session key to send back on a > subsequent response? Is it just understood that the first 'folder' > level under the domain (i.e. context name) is always a different session > key? (myDomain.com/order vs. myDomain/account)? Or does the browser > send all session keys back per domain and let TC figure out which one, > if any, to use? Again, just looking for a little education here > > Thx. > > Jerry > > On 4/11/2019 9:35 AM, Jerry Malcolm wrote: >> Thanks for the quick response, Luis. Answers below: >> >> On 4/11/2019 3:22 AM, Luis Rodríguez Fernández wrote: >>> Hello Jerry, >>> I'm using single sign-on >>> Do you mean tomcat Single Sign On valve? [1], a third party solution or >>> your custom implementation? That can change the game completely :) >> Yes, standard Tomcat-provided single sign on valve >>> some RewriteRules in httpd >>> Can you share them? That could change the game also :) >> >> Here's some of my rewrite rules from httpd.conf for this virtualhost: >> >> RewriteRule ^/create_user$ >> /idmanager/jsp/guest/createuser.jsp? [PT] >> RewriteRule ^/forgot_password$ >> /idmanager/jsp/guest/forgotpassword.jsp? [PT] >> RewriteRule ^/logoff$ /idmanager/jsp/guest/logoff.jsp [PT] >> RewriteRule ^/change_password$ >> /idmanager/jsp/user/changepassword.jsp? [PT] >> RewriteRule ^/login$ /idmanager/jsp/user/home.jsp [PT] >> RewriteRule ^/userhome$ /idmanager/jsp/user/home.jsp? [PT] >> RewriteRule ^/cart$ /order/jsp/guest/cart.jsp? [PT,QSA] >> RewriteRule ^/checkout$ /order/jsp/guest/checkout.jsp? [PT] >> RewriteRule ^/submitOrder$ /order/jsp/guest/orderSubmit.jsp? >> [PT,QSA] >> RewriteRule ^/displayImage$ /order/jsp/guest/productPage.jsp? >> [PT,QSA] >> RewriteRule ^/product$ /order/jsp/guest/productPage.jsp? >> [PT,QSA] >> RewriteRule ^/storeFront$ /order/jsp/guest/storeFront.jsp [PT] >> RewriteRule ^/orders$ /order/jsp/user/orderList.jsp? [PT] >> RewriteRule ^/pay$ /payment/jsp/user/flcPayProvision.jsp [PT] >> RewriteRule ^/projectlist$ >> /projectmanager/jsp/user/projectlist3.jsp? [PT] >> RewriteRule ^/about$ /upartyrental/jsp/guest/about.jsp? [PT] >> RewriteRule ^/$ /upartyrental/jsp/guest/uprHome.jsp [PT] >> >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Luis >>> >>> [1] >>> https://tomcat.apache.org/tomcat-9.0-doc/config/valve.html#Single_Sign_On_Valve >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> El jue., 11 abr. 2019 a las 5:57, Jerry Malcolm >>> () >>> escribió: >>> I have a TC host that is running about 10 separate webapps that interact with each other. I understand that sessions are per-webapp. But within one webapp, with the same browser just making different calls to the same webapp is starting new sessions about 30% of the time. I've put a debug statement at the beginning of all of my JSPs that logs session.isNew(). It'll start a new session, then use it for 10 or so subsequent calls. But then it'll decide to drop that session and start a new one that it'll subsequently use for a while. The setup is nothing fancy. It's just calling several different JSPs within the same webapp (context). I am keeping data in the session that really needs to persist for the duration of the 'real' session between the user and the site. So this is a serious problem. (This is happening both with Firefox and Chrome). I'm using TC 9.0.1 on Windows. I definitely could have some misunderstandings here. But my first understanding is that once a browser makes a call to a webapp, a session is created, and that session remains around until invalidated on a logout or a timeout occurred, and that webapp uses that session for the remainder of the activity between that browser and that webapp. If that's not the case, then please set me straight. If that assumption is correct, what could possibly be causing the sessions to keep dropping and new ones created? Interestingly, logon state is not being dropped with the new sessions. I'm using single
Re: Session Persistence Problems
Alternatively, if I had a better understanding of how sessions are managed by both TC and the browser, it might help me figure out what is going wrong. I know a session key is generated by TC and sent back in a response. And I'm assuming that the browser must return that session key on subsequent calls. But if there are several webapps on domain, how does the browser differentiate which session key to send back on a subsequent response? Is it just understood that the first 'folder' level under the domain (i.e. context name) is always a different session key? (myDomain.com/order vs. myDomain/account)? Or does the browser send all session keys back per domain and let TC figure out which one, if any, to use? Again, just looking for a little education here Thx. Jerry On 4/11/2019 9:35 AM, Jerry Malcolm wrote: Thanks for the quick response, Luis. Answers below: On 4/11/2019 3:22 AM, Luis Rodríguez Fernández wrote: Hello Jerry, I'm using single sign-on Do you mean tomcat Single Sign On valve? [1], a third party solution or your custom implementation? That can change the game completely :) Yes, standard Tomcat-provided single sign on valve some RewriteRules in httpd Can you share them? That could change the game also :) Here's some of my rewrite rules from httpd.conf for this virtualhost: RewriteRule ^/create_user$ /idmanager/jsp/guest/createuser.jsp? [PT] RewriteRule ^/forgot_password$ /idmanager/jsp/guest/forgotpassword.jsp? [PT] RewriteRule ^/logoff$ /idmanager/jsp/guest/logoff.jsp [PT] RewriteRule ^/change_password$ /idmanager/jsp/user/changepassword.jsp? [PT] RewriteRule ^/login$ /idmanager/jsp/user/home.jsp [PT] RewriteRule ^/userhome$ /idmanager/jsp/user/home.jsp? [PT] RewriteRule ^/cart$ /order/jsp/guest/cart.jsp? [PT,QSA] RewriteRule ^/checkout$ /order/jsp/guest/checkout.jsp? [PT] RewriteRule ^/submitOrder$ /order/jsp/guest/orderSubmit.jsp? [PT,QSA] RewriteRule ^/displayImage$ /order/jsp/guest/productPage.jsp? [PT,QSA] RewriteRule ^/product$ /order/jsp/guest/productPage.jsp? [PT,QSA] RewriteRule ^/storeFront$ /order/jsp/guest/storeFront.jsp [PT] RewriteRule ^/orders$ /order/jsp/user/orderList.jsp? [PT] RewriteRule ^/pay$ /payment/jsp/user/flcPayProvision.jsp [PT] RewriteRule ^/projectlist$ /projectmanager/jsp/user/projectlist3.jsp? [PT] RewriteRule ^/about$ /upartyrental/jsp/guest/about.jsp? [PT] RewriteRule ^/$ /upartyrental/jsp/guest/uprHome.jsp [PT] Cheers, Luis [1] https://tomcat.apache.org/tomcat-9.0-doc/config/valve.html#Single_Sign_On_Valve El jue., 11 abr. 2019 a las 5:57, Jerry Malcolm () escribió: I have a TC host that is running about 10 separate webapps that interact with each other. I understand that sessions are per-webapp. But within one webapp, with the same browser just making different calls to the same webapp is starting new sessions about 30% of the time. I've put a debug statement at the beginning of all of my JSPs that logs session.isNew(). It'll start a new session, then use it for 10 or so subsequent calls. But then it'll decide to drop that session and start a new one that it'll subsequently use for a while. The setup is nothing fancy. It's just calling several different JSPs within the same webapp (context). I am keeping data in the session that really needs to persist for the duration of the 'real' session between the user and the site. So this is a serious problem. (This is happening both with Firefox and Chrome). I'm using TC 9.0.1 on Windows. I definitely could have some misunderstandings here. But my first understanding is that once a browser makes a call to a webapp, a session is created, and that session remains around until invalidated on a logout or a timeout occurred, and that webapp uses that session for the remainder of the activity between that browser and that webapp. If that's not the case, then please set me straight. If that assumption is correct, what could possibly be causing the sessions to keep dropping and new ones created? Interestingly, logon state is not being dropped with the new sessions. I'm using single sign-on. So that may be ensuring the logon doesn't drop. The only thing I can come up with is that I'm using some RewriteRules in httpd to map the complex url paths to single words like "/product". (SEO advisor told me to do that...) I'm trying to see in the logs if there is a correlation between rewrites and the new sessions. But I can't really tell if that's what's causing it. Am I missing or do I have some sort of errant configuration setting that is causing the sessions to keep reinitiating? Is there something else I'm missing? I really need to have sessions that last as long as the user is on the site. Suggestions? Help?? Thx. Jerry
Re: Session Persistence Problems
Thanks for the quick response, Luis. Answers below: On 4/11/2019 3:22 AM, Luis Rodríguez Fernández wrote: Hello Jerry, I'm using single sign-on Do you mean tomcat Single Sign On valve? [1], a third party solution or your custom implementation? That can change the game completely :) Yes, standard Tomcat-provided single sign on valve some RewriteRules in httpd Can you share them? That could change the game also :) Here's some of my rewrite rules from httpd.conf for this virtualhost: RewriteRule ^/create_user$ /idmanager/jsp/guest/createuser.jsp? [PT] RewriteRule ^/forgot_password$ /idmanager/jsp/guest/forgotpassword.jsp? [PT] RewriteRule ^/logoff$ /idmanager/jsp/guest/logoff.jsp [PT] RewriteRule ^/change_password$ /idmanager/jsp/user/changepassword.jsp? [PT] RewriteRule ^/login$ /idmanager/jsp/user/home.jsp [PT] RewriteRule ^/userhome$ /idmanager/jsp/user/home.jsp? [PT] RewriteRule ^/cart$ /order/jsp/guest/cart.jsp? [PT,QSA] RewriteRule ^/checkout$ /order/jsp/guest/checkout.jsp? [PT] RewriteRule ^/submitOrder$ /order/jsp/guest/orderSubmit.jsp? [PT,QSA] RewriteRule ^/displayImage$ /order/jsp/guest/productPage.jsp? [PT,QSA] RewriteRule ^/product$ /order/jsp/guest/productPage.jsp? [PT,QSA] RewriteRule ^/storeFront$ /order/jsp/guest/storeFront.jsp [PT] RewriteRule ^/orders$ /order/jsp/user/orderList.jsp? [PT] RewriteRule ^/pay$ /payment/jsp/user/flcPayProvision.jsp [PT] RewriteRule ^/projectlist$ /projectmanager/jsp/user/projectlist3.jsp? [PT] RewriteRule ^/about$ /upartyrental/jsp/guest/about.jsp? [PT] RewriteRule ^/$ /upartyrental/jsp/guest/uprHome.jsp [PT] Cheers, Luis [1] https://tomcat.apache.org/tomcat-9.0-doc/config/valve.html#Single_Sign_On_Valve El jue., 11 abr. 2019 a las 5:57, Jerry Malcolm () escribió: I have a TC host that is running about 10 separate webapps that interact with each other. I understand that sessions are per-webapp. But within one webapp, with the same browser just making different calls to the same webapp is starting new sessions about 30% of the time. I've put a debug statement at the beginning of all of my JSPs that logs session.isNew(). It'll start a new session, then use it for 10 or so subsequent calls. But then it'll decide to drop that session and start a new one that it'll subsequently use for a while. The setup is nothing fancy. It's just calling several different JSPs within the same webapp (context). I am keeping data in the session that really needs to persist for the duration of the 'real' session between the user and the site. So this is a serious problem. (This is happening both with Firefox and Chrome). I'm using TC 9.0.1 on Windows. I definitely could have some misunderstandings here. But my first understanding is that once a browser makes a call to a webapp, a session is created, and that session remains around until invalidated on a logout or a timeout occurred, and that webapp uses that session for the remainder of the activity between that browser and that webapp. If that's not the case, then please set me straight. If that assumption is correct, what could possibly be causing the sessions to keep dropping and new ones created? Interestingly, logon state is not being dropped with the new sessions. I'm using single sign-on. So that may be ensuring the logon doesn't drop. The only thing I can come up with is that I'm using some RewriteRules in httpd to map the complex url paths to single words like "/product". (SEO advisor told me to do that...) I'm trying to see in the logs if there is a correlation between rewrites and the new sessions. But I can't really tell if that's what's causing it. Am I missing or do I have some sort of errant configuration setting that is causing the sessions to keep reinitiating? Is there something else I'm missing? I really need to have sessions that last as long as the user is on the site. Suggestions? Help?? Thx. Jerry - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org
Re: Session Persistence Problems
Hello Jerry, > I'm using single sign-on Do you mean tomcat Single Sign On valve? [1], a third party solution or your custom implementation? That can change the game completely :) > some RewriteRules in httpd Can you share them? That could change the game also :) Cheers, Luis [1] https://tomcat.apache.org/tomcat-9.0-doc/config/valve.html#Single_Sign_On_Valve El jue., 11 abr. 2019 a las 5:57, Jerry Malcolm () escribió: > I have a TC host that is running about 10 separate webapps that interact > with each other. I understand that sessions are per-webapp. But within > one webapp, with the same browser just making different calls to the > same webapp is starting new sessions about 30% of the time. I've put a > debug statement at the beginning of all of my JSPs that logs > session.isNew(). It'll start a new session, then use it for 10 or so > subsequent calls. But then it'll decide to drop that session and start a > new one that it'll subsequently use for a while. The setup is nothing > fancy. It's just calling several different JSPs within the same webapp > (context). I am keeping data in the session that really needs to > persist for the duration of the 'real' session between the user and the > site. So this is a serious problem. (This is happening both with > Firefox and Chrome). I'm using TC 9.0.1 on Windows. > > I definitely could have some misunderstandings here. But my first > understanding is that once a browser makes a call to a webapp, a session > is created, and that session remains around until invalidated on a > logout or a timeout occurred, and that webapp uses that session for the > remainder of the activity between that browser and that webapp. If > that's not the case, then please set me straight. If that assumption is > correct, what could possibly be causing the sessions to keep dropping > and new ones created? > > Interestingly, logon state is not being dropped with the new sessions. > I'm using single sign-on. So that may be ensuring the logon doesn't drop. > > The only thing I can come up with is that I'm using some RewriteRules in > httpd to map the complex url paths to single words like "/product". (SEO > advisor told me to do that...) I'm trying to see in the logs if there is > a correlation between rewrites and the new sessions. But I can't really > tell if that's what's causing it. > > Am I missing or do I have some sort of errant configuration setting that > is causing the sessions to keep reinitiating? Is there something else > I'm missing? I really need to have sessions that last as long as the > user is on the site. > > Suggestions? Help?? > > Thx. > > Jerry > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org > > -- "Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett
