Re: [vdr] Any really working HD video output systems for VDR?
On Wed, 2009-06-10 at 00:50 +0200, Georg Acher wrote: On Tue, Jun 09, 2009 at 11:44:29AM +0200, Mattia Rossi wrote: Is there any other setting we can work on regarding the eHd outputs, even if they are not listed in the reelbox-3 setup ? Not really. You can either use upscaling without deinterlacing (and get tearing for real interlaced moving signals) or use the chips deinterlacer. That is effectively independent scaling of both fields, so the field order is correct, but fine details show horizontal ghost lines as the interpolation doesn't know anything about the full context. It depends a bit on the display how visible these lines can be seen, some displays seem to have their own filtering and hide them better. Ok, will try to improve a little bit on the display side (i.e. bring my test machine to a couple of friend's houses and test with different VPRs, plasmas). I haven't found much documentation for my particular hardware, but it looks like scaling from 480i and 576i isn't really what it is best at There is a third possibility that is currently not settable: Blending. That mixes both fields together. So still pictures are sharp and movements are only blurred and not teared. I can enable it in a experimental linux.bin. That would be great, and if you manage to get a test build I would be willing to experiment BTW: We chose the DeCypher despite a real deinterlacer was missing at the time, because we were told that it will be enabled later. The rest is history... Alas, that happens too often with manufacturers You can output 576i over HDMI and let the display do the deinterlacing. But there is a dependency with the analog output that allows only 576p when the analog port should emit 576i (CVBS etc.). For 576i over HDMI you need to switch the analog port completely off. Understood. I guess the vdr 1.7 has it's own intelligence about frame-precise playback for TS that doesn't match the requirements of the plugin... It took us quite a while to make it work almost as responsive as on the FF, maybe there are some dependencies with our old 1.4. But up to now, I had no time to try 1.7... Well, while this looks like a show stopper for other users, it really isn't for me (and my users) since we mainly use the skip fwd and skip backward functions when replaying Thanks and regards Mattia -- ---MR.- ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Any really working HD video output systems for VDR?
On Mon, 2009-06-08 at 21:54 +0200, Georg Acher wrote: On Mon, Jun 08, 2009 at 09:40:04PM +0200, Mattia Rossi wrote: The need for time in such a discovery process, at least on my part, is fully understood, I only wish that sometimes the guys from Reel would provide a little more documentation (in english) about how they do some things in the avantgarde, but this is probably what is actually giving the avantgarde the edge over a normal vdr install, so I won't complain. Just ask, there are no secrets ;) There's just not enough time to guess what will be of interest... Hi Georg, sorry if that came out as 'they are hiding something', I was really thinking more in terms of 'there are so many variables that the best combination is probably achieved in an environment where the user has much less control as we have in a custom vdr compiled environment, without even taking into account the endless combinations of display devices that people will want to connect to the eHd' That said, I really really would like a different option than 'don't use the scaler on the eHd-HDMI output, it's crap', is there a way to change the scaling algorithm it uses ? Is there any other setting we can work on regarding the eHd outputs, even if they are not listed in the reelbox-3 setup ? For example, I am using the coax digital output on the eHd mini-din, instead of the pass through HDMI (the HDMI cable goes straight to the VPR, the coax cable goes to my main amp), I had to change a couple of lines in the reelbox-3 plugin in order to allow for AC3 to pass through the digital output. The option was there, it just wasn't compiled in because of REELBOXLITE ifdefs What I would like to achieve is decent quality (either scaled or unscaled) SD MPEG-2 output, and by decent I mean at least at the same quality of the MPEG-2 output of a FF card without having to use a 2Keuro deinterlacer. Please note that I'm talking about MPEG processing quality, not still image quality I understand that this is not easy to fine tune because of all the different variables and because of all the 'not straightforward' test environments every single vdr user will have set up. At the moment my vdr 1.7.x install is really basic (vdr, extensions patch, reelbox3 filebrowser xinemediaplayer and menuorg plugins) and I am completely satisfied by the stability (both of vdr and of the eHd) , I even don't notice the problems with the recordings handling (the single frame forward in a recording isn't really working, it looks like it is skipping from i-frame to i-frame (doesnt'do that when going backwards, it is the opposite behaviour as with the ff card, where forward skipping works, while backward skipping goes from i_frame to i-frame ..) If this is still not technical enough I'll go back to my test machine, experiment some more, and come back with more detailed questions ... Thanks Mattia -- ---MR.- ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Any really working HD video output systems for VDR?
On Fri, 2009-06-05 at 23:40 +0300, Vesa wrote: -Original Message- I have not seen those kinds issues with eHD card. But I use on my setup separate video processor (DVDO VP30 with abt102) for deinterlacing and scaling to 1080P. Well, your setup is a little different than what I have. I can get jagged lines when I use eHD own deinterlacer, it seems to miss even/odd field detection sometimes. Also TV:s own deinterlacer seems to lost half of resolution when video is 576i when comparing to DVDO. Are you absolutely sure that signal is 576i on HDMI? What TV tells about video? It can be that also Mitsubishi sends 576P signal. True 576i/486i support is rare on HDMI devices, specification recommend always to use at least 576P, sd resolutions are possible but not recommended.. I am reasonably sure since it is a supported resolution in the VPR manual, and it is the listed resolution on the VPR on screen display. At this point there can be three different explanations: 1 - the internal scaler of my VPR behaves differently when it receives 576i from the s-video port and the HDMI port 2 - I'm doing something wrong with the eHd output 3 - The ehd output - in my conditions - is really worse than the ff card Will experiment further, and will let you know when/if I come to any conclusion Thanks and regards Mattia -- ---MR.- ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Any really working HD video output systems for VDR?
On Fri, 5 Jun 2009 08:49:02 -0700 VDR User user@gmail.com wrote: --- snip - On a side note I just want to say that I see some posts here about peoples expectations.. I want to record X, and Y, while playing Z with no dropped frames, etc etc. I hope you guys understand that things like that are not only related to software. Your hardware is a factor and if your hardware can't do it then it can't do it and doesn't automatically mean there's a problem with your software. Your signal matters too. I can't speak for the other participants of this thread, but I consider myself an 'old hand' of vdr having started fiddling with this great piece of software since version 1.0 (2002) and I am used to what for users of a full featured dvb-s card is normal: rock solid stability, excellent video quality, no dropped frames whatsoever, up to the bandwidth limit of the card (about 20Mbit/s), great zapping time, time shifting as the norm, multiple card installations without conflicts and so on. The only thing the FF card won't do is play/replay HD content and while this is still not so important at the moment (at least in Italy) since we're used to such a great level of quality it will be hard to obtain the same results with a new generation solution. The need for time in such a discovery process, at least on my part, is fully understood, I only wish that sometimes the guys from Reel would provide a little more documentation (in english) about how they do some things in the avantgarde, but this is probably what is actually giving the avantgarde the edge over a normal vdr install, so I won't complain. Regards Mattia ---MR.--- ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Any really working HD video output systems for VDR?
On Fri, 05 Jun 2009 09:35:19 +0200 Nicolas Huillard nico...@huillard.net wrote: Gerald Dachs a écrit : VDR User schrieb: VDR + hdtv has been pretty stable for me for some time now. The few problems I ran into (with VDPAU) were quickly fixed by the xine-vdpau devs. I'm not the only one either, I know a bunch of guys doing the same. It's a highly discussed topic and I'm honestly surprised to hear someone suggest it's in an unstable/crashing/unusable state. My experience has been basically the opposite of that. I would recommend you make sure to have a nice good signal, proper configurations, etc. I agree with VDR User, I use it for months now without problems. Could you please both detail a bit the DVB sources, software versions, plugins, patches, etc. related to HD, that you actually use now ? (DVB-T, DVB-S or S2, DVB kernel patches, VDR core, xineliboutput or xine plugin, xinelib patches...) I think it would also help if we could reach an agreement over the terms stable and good quality and everything is working because they are highly subjective. For me a stable configuration of vdr is one where (I have a dual ff card setup at the moment): - I can record two streams from two different transponders and watch a third one (either from one of the two transponders, a recorded one, or with mplayer) without pixelation, without skips and with no audio/video desyncing - The osd is fast and clear - Zapping from one channel to another takes less then .5 seconds - everything is controlled from the remote good quality in an SD environment means that I am used to the video quality of the s-video output of the FF card to a Mitsubishi VPR with a 100 screen (it isn't blue-ray I know, but except for the resolution, the output quality is really exceptional) everything is working means that I have a computer that I use as an stb (no keyboard, no mouse, no video) and that I can power up with my remote, that is completely controlled via my remote, where vdr is able to autostart and record on its own, where I can burn shows either to DVD or Xvid files, where I can play every media file mplayer can, with PCM or AC3 audio depending on the media, with subtitles in mplayer media, and the occasional streaming to a vlc client around the house I do have an eHd card I'm playing with, together with an s2-3200 card on a separate machine, I haven't played with xine-vdpau yet, and until I can find a video card that will be able to run vdpau with 10W consumption I don't think I will be tempted to try it ... we'll see At the moment I have a running system with one s2-3200, vdr1.7.5, extensions patch, reelbox3, filebrowser,xinemediaplayer (took me about a weekend of fiddling with patches, drivers, small corrections to the reel code, lurking the german boards and swearing, lots of swearing) and some other plugins, hd output on the eHd is really nice, I am not so happy with the quality of SD output either at native resolution or scaled to 1080i the non scaled quality is in my opinion much worse than what I have on my FF card, and the scaled quality depends on the media, but it is generally bad, in my opinion. From what I have understood lurking on the German folders (I'm italian so German is a no-no for me) low sd quality on the ehd is a common complaint from eHd users, and one that won't probably be tackled from Reel since apparently it is a hardware/firmware limitation of the chip used on the eHd and production and support for the this chip has been terminated from the original manufacturer Also, it doesn't look like there will be an 'Oliver Endriss' that takes the situation in hand like it happened with the FF cards firmware and releases updates even if the original chip developer has ceased support. (on the other hand, since I can understand about one word in ten of german and usually use google translator to understand the meaning of the posts, it may be that sd quality output can be fine-tuned to FF quality and I simply don't know how) This means that if the situation doesn't change (reel multimedia gets the source code for the embedded chip in the eHd and tries to improve on it) the next version of the eHd won't use the same chip/there won't be and eHd anymore, and sd quality won't improve, unless Reel finds a way to improve it using other methods. Since here in Italy the selection of HD channels not related to football is non-existent (and I'm not interested in football), there has been no incentive for me (so far) to move from a stable, good quality and working sd solution to an equivalent hd one with lower quality sd. Also, I am not using file sharing programs to download hd content and I am not ready to tackle blu-ray yet . Maybe there is an english howto somewhere ? Hmm, not that I'm aware of, the most reliable howto is on the german VDR wiki: http://www.vdr-wiki.de/wiki/index.php/OpenSUSE_VDR_DVB-S2_-_Teil2.1:_eHD#Vorbereitungen this covers the ehd and vdr basic
Re: [vdr] Any really working HD video output systems for VDR?
On Fri, 2009-06-05 at 13:19 +0300, Vesa wrote: -Original Message- Behalf Of Mattia Rossi Subject: Re: [vdr] Any really working HD video output systems for VDR? At the moment I have a running system with one s2-3200, vdr1.7.5, extensions patch, reelbox3, filebrowser,xinemediaplayer (took me about a weekend of fiddling with patches, drivers, small corrections to the reel code, lurking the german boards and swearing, lots of swearing) and some other plugins, hd output on the eHd is really nice, I am not so happy with the quality of SD output either at native resolution or scaled to 1080i the non scaled quality is in my opinion much worse than what I have on my FF card, and the scaled quality depends on the media, but it is generally bad, in my opinion. Reelbox eHD DA is poor, so there is no any reason to use analog output. HDMI output is ok, but there is couple items to remember: chipset have only one scaler/video processor. So if analog output is active, video is for it. HDMI gets same - video is not pixel to pixel, it is always scaled! To get right quality out of HDMI, turn off analog output completely. Second issue is caused by HDMI itself, there is very few displays with 576i/480i support. With HDMI eHD reads display capabilities and end result is most of cases 576P/480P even that ui tels 576i/480i. eHD internal processing for i-P is poor, so SD looks quit bad. When you get combination where eHD outputs pixel to pixel 576i (or what native resolution of video is) signal over HDMI/DVI and TV scales it properly, quality is perfect. Much beter than FF card with RGB, it is clear with comparison how DA-AD process lost one bit of every color channels. If reelbox-3 plugins would work better (working FF/FR, no delays on replay commands) it is the best video output currently. It outputs original video/audio as it is with out micro stuttering. First of all, thanks for the explanation, I believe it is the first time I manage to understand why these settings are needed, the automatic translation from google is borderline between funny and completely useless. Here is proper settings for eHD, when you have HDMI/DVI display and it support all resolutions (576i, 720p and 1080i in Europe) Output: HDMI Analog Output: off Display Type: 16:9 Aspect Rations: Fill to Aspect Resolution: 1080 Refresh Rate: 50Hz Deinsterlacer for SDTV: Off Resolution change: Media resolution OSD scaling: Fill to screen With proper display, digital video is now 1:1 on pixel/frame level. Well, I have to say that I already used this setup since after trying almost all the combinations this was giving me best results. I have a mitsubishi HC-4900 VPR that has no problems displaying 576i/480i through the HDMI connection. That said, while I agree that for still images and for videos with very small amounts of panning the eHd image is much better (color definition, sharpness) in all other cases , and much more evident with low bitrate streams (that alas are almost the norm with Sky Italy), the mpeg rendering of the FF card is much more smooth than the eHd, the eHD also has problems with the rendering of white lines and/or characters (jagged lines, blurry borders) . So, either something's still not working with my setup (no pixel to pixel output from the eHd, is there any way I can check ?) or I stand with my s_subjective_ opinion that the FF output, in terms of MPEG rendering is much more polished than the eHd output for SD content I sincerely hope that I'm wrong, and that I still have to find the correct setup for the eHd that will allow it to output an unprocessed/uninterlaced image Regards Mattia -- ---MR.- ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] VDR + extension HD, mediaplayer
Hi Per, you really really want to follow the section Die Reelbox-Plugin´s installieren at this link: http://www.htpc-forum.de/forum/index.php?showtopic=4568st=0 it will show you step by step how to compile the necessary plugins (xinemediaplayer and filebrowser), and how to compile the xine library to allow the xine output to be processed by the eHd card (xineplug_hde.so). Have fun Mattia P.S. Don't mind the fact that the page is in German ;) On Tue, 2008-11-18 at 16:46 +0100, Per Mellander wrote: I'm succesfully running VDR-1.7.0 + Extension HD-card I would like to get a mediaplayer ( as mplayer plugin ) working but I'm not sure how to accomplish this. The reelbox checkout contains filebrowser and erfplayer which I can compile and add to my startup script. This is not enough to get the mediaplayer functionaity and here I'm stuck. I can't find any info on how it's supposed to interact with vdr. In my logs it refers to xine, but how should this install look like. Anybody? Sincerely, /Per ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr -- ---MR.- ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] VDR + extension HD, mediaplayer
On Tue, 18 Nov 2008 17:20:15 + Morfsta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can anyone get the xine plugin and player to work with Matroska video (MKV) HD files, or is this a known bug (it stutters badly). Thanks, Morfsta Hi Morfsta, do you have a link to a test file to play with ? Mattia ---MR.--- ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] for ffmpeg-devels needs the problem h.264 samples
On Mon, 2008-10-06 at 16:30 +0100, Morfsta wrote: Anyway, I have moved to Reel Multimedia's eHD card in my VDR box ... which is nice. I might write up my experiences on it thus far if anyone is actually interested. There's not much English chat out there on this card, mostly in German on vdr portal and reel's own portal. Cheers, Morfsta Hi Morfsta, I would definitely be interested in 'Comparing notes'. I have bought an eHD card too, and got as far as having video out both the hdmi and s-video connector, but cannot, for the life of me, have both audio (analog and dolby digital) out, either on the dedicated eHD output pin, or in the motherboard sound card. I also tried choosing audio out over the hdmi connector and buying an HDMI audio/video splittre, but with that route I get no audio at all. I tried looking for some documentation but, sadly, it doesn't look like it exists, and the forum are all for German speakers. I also tried looking at the plugin code but there are no evident comments, and the only parameter I was able to play with was the AC3 one, that causes either only analog or only digital audio to be output over either the sound card or the s/pdif out of the eHD card. So far, I haven't dedicated a lot of time at the issue (I still have everything in my vdr test machine, and have another one perfectly working ;) but I would really like to dig a little bit deeper into the issue Cheers Mattia -- ---MR.- ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] no channel update on vdr 1.7.0
On Wed, 21 May 2008 16:57:33 +0400 Igor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- snip - could you explain please how it's possible to connect 3 cards in VDR to 3 LNB's for Hotbird, Sirius, Astra for example with DiSEq-Cswitch Hmm, using this switch ? http://www.spaun.de/?lang=enmodul=productsproduct=842379productname=SBK9935NF Mattia -- ---MR.- ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Straw poll: stable version 1.6.0 now?
On Sun, 03 Feb 2008 11:17:05 +0100 Klaus Schmidinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So, here's the straw poll: Should there be a stable version 1.6.0 now, based on what's in version 1.5.14, but without DVB-S2 or even H.264 support? Yes or No? Yes. The HDTV stuff and possibly a new recording format will be a huge change, I think freezing whatever improvements have gone into 1.5.x is a Good Thing. Yes, there will be some stuff missing but, like when we have to buy a new PC, in theory there's always something with a better price to performance ratio coming in a few months ... we just don;t care and buy whatever is better now, or keep waiting forever .. Mattia -- ---MR.- ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] FF card A/V sync suggestion
On Mon, 23 Oct 2006 17:49:38 +0200 Joerg Knitter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Udo Richter wrote: Just talking about the case that I've reported. I experience such issues only very rarely, and mostly related to bad reception. The reported issue related to blackness is very specific to this channel. Do you mean that this is e.g. just related to ATV+? Does Lost on ProSieben play without problems? This problems also appeared with 24 from ATV+ (also black fades on counter jumps). Anybody commenting if there are also problems with 24 recordings from RTL2? If it can help to better pinpoint the problem, I have same symptoms, and same cause (loss of audio/video sync on black fades - dark scenes) with almost all recordings of C.S.I from Fox Crime - Sky Italia and a lot of Battlestar Galactica episodes from Fox - Sky Italia in the last two years. I do not have the same symptoms from other Sky Italia recordings, mainly sport events. One factor that can compound the problem is that the channels I am recording are encrypted and the decoding is done through a real smartcard, real subscription connected to a serial smartcard reader. I'll try to isolate a couple of recordings and pass them through mplayer to check whether they come out clear. I do not have the dropouts when I burn the recordings to dvd with the burn plugin, but I am digressing. Cheers Mattia -- ---MR.- ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
