Re: [Veritas-bu] Synthetic Backups

[W. Curtis Preston]

Nope.  You verified what I believed to be the case.  Although the
documentation suggests otherwise, and something that the original poster is
experiencing does as well, it's nice to see that it works as I thought it
should -- at least somewhere. ;)

Thanks.

-Original Message-
From: veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
[mailto:veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu] On Behalf Of Crowey
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 10:52 PM
To: VERITAS-BU@MAILMAN.ENG.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: [Veritas-bu] Synthetic Backups



cpreston wrote:
> And you're verifying that the original full does not need to be kept
around?
> 


OK ... I missed two important points I guess.  With a 1 month retention
period, I always have 4 (weekly) synthetic backups in my library, and so yes
I've never had any problem about recovering files very quickly that were/are
less than one month old.

However, we do also have another separate policy that duplicates the most
recent synthetic copy to another set of tapes for our EOM set.

And, again, I've restored from our EOM tapes (from various months/years)
more than enough times to know that the process works just fine.

And I do know for sure that we do not keep an initial full backup - it
expires (after one month) like any other backup.  Its the seed for the
initial synthetic, but then its no longer required - moreover, its no longer
useful (in the synthetic backup process) if you don't have differentials
that date back to the creation of that 'seed' full backup.

Is that clearer? Anything else that I missed?

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[Veritas-bu] Synthetic Backups

[Crowey]

cpreston wrote:
> And you're verifying that the original full does not need to be kept around?
> 


OK ... I missed two important points I guess.  With a 1 month retention period, 
I always have 4 (weekly) synthetic backups in my library, and so yes I've never 
had any problem about recovering files very quickly that were/are less than one 
month old.

However, we do also have another separate policy that duplicates the most 
recent synthetic copy to another set of tapes for our EOM set.

And, again, I've restored from our EOM tapes (from various months/years) more 
than enough times to know that the process works just fine.

And I do know for sure that we do not keep an initial full backup - it expires 
(after one month) like any other backup.  Its the seed for the initial 
synthetic, but then its no longer required - moreover, its no longer useful (in 
the synthetic backup process) if you don't have differentials that date back to 
the creation of that 'seed' full backup.

Is that clearer? Anything else that I missed?

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Re: [Veritas-bu] Synthetic Backups

[W. Curtis Preston]

And you're verifying that the original full does not need to be kept around?

-Original Message-
From: veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
[mailto:veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu] On Behalf Of Crowey
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 5:55 PM
To: VERITAS-BU@MAILMAN.ENG.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: [Veritas-bu] Synthetic Backups


Gidday, I've been running synthetics for nearly two years now to backup
about 3/3.5 TBs and have to say has generally run extremely well.

Within the same policy I have 3 schedules.

The first is an ad-hoc full - I used this to create the first full backup,
and on the very few occasions when the synthetic has stuffed up and I needed
to start again.  It has a 1 month retention.

Second is a daily differential that runs every three hours and goes to disc.
They have a two week retention period.

Lastly, I have the synthetic full backup.  Runs every saturday and also has
a 1 month retention.

Like I said, it occasionaly stuffs up, but works 99% of the time, and
appears to run 3 to 4 times faster than a traditional full.

I HIGHLY recommend it.

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Re: [Veritas-bu] Synthetic Backups Or May A Red Herring.

[Jim Horalek (Federal Edge)]

Unfortunately my test showed you do.(or do they?). I'm to understand why 
expiring the full backup triggered another full backup (not synthetic). There 
maybe an obsure reason that my test failed or it may be a bug.

Maybe the Full backup running has nothing to do with the synthetics but is 
actually a scheduling or retension issue. Since all my Fulls are "manual" this 
is a bit perplexing as to why a Full ran automatically.

Something to do with running a manual backup and the system thinks it hasn't 
run since the image was expired?


jim




From: Dean 
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 5:11 PM
To: Jim Horalek 
Cc: VERITAS-BU@mailman.eng.auburn.edu 
Subject: Re: [Veritas-bu] Synthetic Backups


>From what I've read, and from what Curtis says below, you DON'T need to keep 
>the original full backup around, once you've created at least one more 
>synethtic full backup. You can do just one full backup, then keep creating 
>synthetic fulls by merging the previous synthetic full with incrementals, 
>forever. The original full backup does not need to be retained as long is 
>there is always at least one unexpired synthetic full available.

Regards
Dean


On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 9:28 AM, Jim Horalek  wrote:

  Thanks all,

  Though keeping the orginal full around(to create other synthetics) does seem
  a bit strange. Hopefully Netbackup will mature to elimnate the constraint.

  Jim


  -Original Message-
  From: veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
  [mailto:veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu] On Behalf Of cpreston
  Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 1:39 PM
  To: VERITAS-BU@MAILMAN.ENG.AUBURN.EDU
  Subject: [Veritas-bu] Synthetic Backups




  > I've been testing it myself. I think you do need to keep that full
  > backup around. The "synthetic" part of a synthetic backup is the
  > consolidation of the full backup and the incrementals into a single
  > image. This is done via duplication.


  What makes it synthetic is that it is created tape to tape instead of
  transferring a bunch of non-changed data from the client again.  Once that
  new (synthetic) full is created, there is no need for previous fulls (other
  than for retention).  The new full DOES NOT rely on the old full once it's
  created.

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[Veritas-bu] Synthetic Backups

[Crowey]

Gidday, I've been running synthetics for nearly two years now to backup about 
3/3.5 TBs and have to say has generally run extremely well.

Within the same policy I have 3 schedules.

The first is an ad-hoc full - I used this to create the first full backup, and 
on the very few occasions when the synthetic has stuffed up and I needed to 
start again.  It has a 1 month retention.

Second is a daily differential that runs every three hours and goes to disc.  
They have a two week retention period.

Lastly, I have the synthetic full backup.  Runs every saturday and also has a 1 
month retention.

Like I said, it occasionaly stuffs up, but works 99% of the time, and appears 
to run 3 to 4 times faster than a traditional full.

I HIGHLY recommend it.

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Re: [Veritas-bu] Synthetic Backups

[Dean]

I see what you mean. But I suspect that's just a poorly worded paragraph.

The diagram on page 200 of the Admin Guide (Vol 1, Windows version)
indicates the original full is not required ongoing.

I wish I could say for sure from experience, but I've never been able to get
synthetic backups working at all :(

Cheers,
Dean

On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 10:21 AM, A Darren Dunham  wrote:

> On Wed, Jul 08, 2009 at 10:11:46AM +1000, Dean wrote:
> > >From what I've read, and from what Curtis says below, you DON'T need to
> keep
> > the original full backup around, once you've created at least one more
> > synethtic full backup. You can do just one full backup, then keep
> creating
> > synthetic fulls by merging the previous synthetic full with incrementals,
> > forever. The original full backup does not need to be retained as long is
> > there is always at least one unexpired synthetic full available.
>
> That is not what the admin guide says (I'm looking at Admin guide 1 for
> UNIX NBU 6.5, page 128).  I had assumed this would be possible, but it
> says a non-synthetic full must be used as the source.
>
> Synthetic backup
>A synthetic full or synthetic cumulative incremental backup is a
>backup assembled from previous backups. The backups include one
>previous, traditional full backup, and subsequent differential
>backups and/or a cumulative incremental backup. (A traditional full
>backup means a non-synthesized, full backup.) A client can then use
>the synthesized backup to restore files and directories in the same
>way that a client restores from a traditional backup.
>
> --
> Darren
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Re: [Veritas-bu] Synthetic Backups

[A Darren Dunham]

On Wed, Jul 08, 2009 at 10:11:46AM +1000, Dean wrote:
> >From what I've read, and from what Curtis says below, you DON'T need to keep
> the original full backup around, once you've created at least one more
> synethtic full backup. You can do just one full backup, then keep creating
> synthetic fulls by merging the previous synthetic full with incrementals,
> forever. The original full backup does not need to be retained as long is
> there is always at least one unexpired synthetic full available.

That is not what the admin guide says (I'm looking at Admin guide 1 for
UNIX NBU 6.5, page 128).  I had assumed this would be possible, but it
says a non-synthetic full must be used as the source.

Synthetic backup
A synthetic full or synthetic cumulative incremental backup is a
backup assembled from previous backups. The backups include one
previous, traditional full backup, and subsequent differential
backups and/or a cumulative incremental backup. (A traditional full
backup means a non-synthesized, full backup.) A client can then use
the synthesized backup to restore files and directories in the same
way that a client restores from a traditional backup.

-- 
Darren
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Re: [Veritas-bu] Synthetic Backups

[Dean]

>From what I've read, and from what Curtis says below, you DON'T need to keep
the original full backup around, once you've created at least one more
synethtic full backup. You can do just one full backup, then keep creating
synthetic fulls by merging the previous synthetic full with incrementals,
forever. The original full backup does not need to be retained as long is
there is always at least one unexpired synthetic full available.

Regards
Dean

On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 9:28 AM, Jim Horalek  wrote:

> Thanks all,
>
> Though keeping the orginal full around(to create other synthetics) does
> seem
> a bit strange. Hopefully Netbackup will mature to elimnate the constraint.
>
> Jim
>
> -Original Message-
> From: veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
> [mailto:veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu] On Behalf Of cpreston
> Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 1:39 PM
> To: VERITAS-BU@MAILMAN.ENG.AUBURN.EDU
> Subject: [Veritas-bu] Synthetic Backups
>
>
>
>
> > I've been testing it myself. I think you do need to keep that full
> > backup around. The "synthetic" part of a synthetic backup is the
> > consolidation of the full backup and the incrementals into a single
> > image. This is done via duplication.
>
>
> What makes it synthetic is that it is created tape to tape instead of
> transferring a bunch of non-changed data from the client again.  Once that
> new (synthetic) full is created, there is no need for previous fulls (other
> than for retention).  The new full DOES NOT rely on the old full once it's
> created.
>
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[Veritas-bu] Revert Clustered Master Server to Stand Alone

[Mase, Vince]

Anyone have experience converting a clustered Master running 6.5 on
Windows back to a stand alone configuration?

 

Thanks

 

Vincent Mase

 



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Re: [Veritas-bu] Synthetic Backups

[Jim Horalek]

Thanks all,

Though keeping the orginal full around(to create other synthetics) does seem
a bit strange. Hopefully Netbackup will mature to elimnate the constraint.

Jim

-Original Message-
From: veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
[mailto:veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu] On Behalf Of cpreston
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 1:39 PM
To: VERITAS-BU@MAILMAN.ENG.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: [Veritas-bu] Synthetic Backups




> I've been testing it myself. I think you do need to keep that full 
> backup around. The "synthetic" part of a synthetic backup is the 
> consolidation of the full backup and the incrementals into a single 
> image. This is done via duplication.


What makes it synthetic is that it is created tape to tape instead of
transferring a bunch of non-changed data from the client again.  Once that
new (synthetic) full is created, there is no need for previous fulls (other
than for retention).  The new full DOES NOT rely on the old full once it's
created.

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[Veritas-bu] Synthetic Backups

[cpreston]

> I've been testing it myself. I think you do need to keep that full backup 
> around. The "synthetic" part of a synthetic backup is the consolidation of 
> the full backup and the incrementals into a single image. This is done via 
> duplication. 


What makes it synthetic is that it is created tape to tape instead of 
transferring a bunch of non-changed data from the client again.  Once that new 
(synthetic) full is created, there is no need for previous fulls (other than 
for retention).  The new full DOES NOT rely on the old full once it's created.

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Re: [Veritas-bu] Using multiple drives with NDMP.

[Jeff Cleverley]

Boris,

When I was doing some testing earlier I could see in the logs that the 
buffer sizes were only changing when I modified the 
size_data_buffers_ndmp value.  If there is a way to set the size on the 
Celera I would guess that would work as well.  I haven't figured out how 
to set the MOVER_RECORD_SIZE on the NetApp.  I'm kind of hoping that the 
value being passed by Veritas using the size_data_buffers_ndmp value is 
setting it.


Thanks,

Jeff

sysadminz...@gmail.com wrote:

Hello Jeff,

I just have SIZE_DATA_BUFFERS on the netbackup media servers and the 
buffer size on our EMC Celerras set to 256k. I don't have 
SIZE_DATA_BUFFERS_NDMP set at all, and I can see quite good 
performance on my LTO3 tape drives, as I pointed out 75mg/s on the 
UNIX and 65mg/s on Windows.


Boris

On Jun 25, 2009 11:16am, Jeff Cleverley  
wrote:

>
>
>
>
> Boris,
>
>
>
> Just to clarify.  When you set the data buffers settings for the filer,
> were you changing the SIZE_DATA_BUFFERS_NDMP or was it something else? 
> I was unclear whether the ndmp buffer size was actually passing that
> size for the dump command to use for a block size. 
>

>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
> Boris Kraizman wrote:
> Jeff, good point. You need to tune the data buffer size as
> well. I changed the data buffer settings on the filer and the backup
> media servers to 256k, runs really fast in my case. I noted the Solaris
> media server runs backups faster then the Windows media servers.
>
>
>
> Boris
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 12:26 PM, Jeff
> Cleverley jeff.clever...@avagotech.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> The clients max job was set
> to 1.  I changed it to 10 for now.  The
> policy with 3 file systems in the includes grabbed 3 drives and started
> writing.  Performance now needs to start getting tuned to see what we
> can get but at least I can use all the drives.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
>
>
> Jon Bousselot wrote:
> What do
> you have set for "maximum jobs per client" under the global attributes
> of the properties tab of the master server?
>
>
>
> by the CLI...
>
>
>
> Check it
>
> /usr/openv/netbackup/bin/admincmd/bpconfig -L
>
>
>
> Set it
>
> /usr/openv/netbackup/bin/admincmd/bpconfig -mj 4
>
>
>
> NDMP will multi-stream, but not multiplex.
>
>
>
> -Jon
>
> Greetings,
>
>
>
> I've got just about all the bugs worked out of the new test environment
> except 1.  I can get my NDMP policies to back up more than one file
> system at a time.
>
>
>
> I've got a 6.5.3 environment running on linux.  I've got a library
> (tld0) with 4 Gen 3 Ultrium drives.  I've defined a media manager
> storage unit because I'm doing remote NDMP.  I've set up 3 test
> policies, 1 standard and 2 NDMP.  All policies work fine one at a time,
> or either NDMP policy will run at the same time as the standard
> policy.  The storage unit is set to allow the use of 4 drives and also
> allow multiplexing (for the standard policy).  The policies vary on the
> number of jobs per policy.  One is set to 9 and the other is not set. 
> One NDMP policy has 3 file systems to back up and the other has 1.

>
>
>
> When I run the policy with 3 file systems, it only runs one at a time
> to one tape.  The other 2 just queue.  I've tried putting in the new
> stream directive between them in the includes file but it didn't help. 
> I can get them all to work one at a time but can't get them to backup

> more than one NDMP file system at a time.  Is there some bp.conf
> directive I need to create?
>
> Any help pointing down the correct path would be appreciated.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Jeff
>
> -- 
>

>
>
> Jeff Cleverley
>
> Unix Systems Administrator
>
> 4380 Ziegler Road
>
> Fort Collins, Colorado 80525
>
> 970-288-4611
>
> jeff.clever...@avagotech.com
>
>
>  
> 

>
>
>
>
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>  
>

>
>
> --
>
> Jeff Cleverley
> Unix Systems Administrator
> 4380 Ziegler Road
> Fort Collins, Colorado 80525
> 970-288-4611
> jeff.clever...@avagotech.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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> Unix Systems Administrator
> 4380 Ziegler Road
> Fort Collins, Colorado 80525
> 970-288-4611
> jeff.clever...@avagotech.com
>
>
> 


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4380 Ziegler Road
Fort Collins, Colorado 80525
970-288-4611
jeff.clever...@avagotech.com

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[Veritas-bu] Synthetic Backups

[tsimerson]

Jim,

I've been testing it myself.  I think you do need to keep that full backup 
around.  The "synthetic" part of a synthetic backup is the consolidation of the 
full backup and the incrementals into a single image.  This is done via 
duplication.

The test scenario I'm working with is the following:
Full backup taken every 4 weeks and kept for 2 months
Incremental every night kept for 2 months
Synthetic full every week which is kept for 1 month (offsite retention only)

This seems to be working fine.  I see a "full" backup during in the backup 
image list for the test client.  I've not actually trying doing a restore of 
this "full" backup to see what tapes are loaded and how long it will take.


> I have a bit of an oddity.
> 
> I'm testing Synthetic Backups.
> 
> I have
> 
> Day 1 Full backup. Day 2 Incremental
> Day 3 Synthetic-Full Day 4 Incremental (and manually expire the Day 1 Full) 
> Day 5 Full backup runs
> 
> So it appears I need to keep the Full backup around even though the Synthetic 
> Full is suppose to be its equivalent.
> 
> The Full backup runs on Day 5 even though I don't have it scheduled. In Fact 
> Full are manual. Synthetics are scheduled.
> 
> Is this normal?
> 
> Running 6.5.4 


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Re: [Veritas-bu] NBU Certification

[Pedro Moranga Gonçalves]

Hi Steven,

The exam is not difficult, if you are used with pre 6.0 versions, you should 
get a good look to the inter-process documentation, becouse it changed a lot 
from pre 6.x to 6x.



Good luck,

Pedro




From: veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu 
[mailto:veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu] On Behalf Of Jenner, Steven
Sent: terça-feira, 7 de julho de 2009 05:40
To: Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu
Subject: [Veritas-bu] NBU Certification

Hi All,

 I am thinking of taking the NBU certification exams 250-265 and 250-365.

I have experience of all versions of NetBackup from 3.4 to 6.5.3.1; however the 
majority of my time has been spent using NBU 4.5 and 5.1 (I completed the 
official VERITAS courses on those versions). I only upgraded to 6.5.3.1 three 
weeks ago and as such could do with a refresher regarding the new version.

Does anyone have any advice with regard to the exams other than the practise 
exam and details on the Symantec website?

I would also appreciate any study docs or websites that I could use to help me 
prepare.

Finally how useful do you think these certifications are?

Thanks in advance,
Steve.


Steven Jenner, NCDA
Senior Operations Engineer
Telstra International EMEA
DDI:+44 (0) 845 685 5644
Facsimile:+44 (0) 845 685 5646
Email:   
steven.jen...@intl.telstra.com
Web:  
www.telstra-international.co.uk
Give your feedback:  
www.telstrainternational.co.uk/survey

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[Veritas-bu] NBU Certification

[Jenner, Steven]

Hi All,

 I am thinking of taking the NBU certification exams 250-265 and 250-365.

I have experience of all versions of NetBackup from 3.4 to 6.5.3.1; however the 
majority of my time has been spent using NBU 4.5 and 5.1 (I completed the 
official VERITAS courses on those versions). I only upgraded to 6.5.3.1 three 
weeks ago and as such could do with a refresher regarding the new version.

Does anyone have any advice with regard to the exams other than the practise 
exam and details on the Symantec website?

I would also appreciate any study docs or websites that I could use to help me 
prepare.

Finally how useful do you think these certifications are?

Thanks in advance,
Steve.


Steven Jenner, NCDA
Senior Operations Engineer
Telstra International EMEA
DDI:+44 (0) 845 685 5644
Facsimile:+44 (0) 845 685 5646
Email:   
steven.jen...@intl.telstra.com
Web:  
www.telstra-international.co.uk
Give your feedback:  
www.telstrainternational.co.uk/survey

Telstra International trades in the UK and EMEA through Telstra Limited, a 
company registered in England and Wales with company number 03830643. Our 
registered address is Telstra House, 21 Tabernacle Street, London EC2A 4DE.

This communication may contain confidential information.  It may also be the 
subject of legal professional privilege and/or under copyright. If you are not 
an intended recipient, you must not keep, forward, copy, use, save or rely on 
this communication, and any such action is unauthorised and prohibited. If you 
have received this communication in error, please reply to this e-mail to 
notify the sender of its incorrect delivery, and then delete both it and your 
reply.
PPlease consider the environment before printing this e-mail.



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