Re: [Veritas-bu] NetApp VTL Direct Tape Creation and NetBackup
Agreed, great thread We currently have a SUN VTL that has NDMP functionality. i.e. the physical drives are zoned into the vtl only. Add the drives are configured as NDMP drives. The idea was to utilise SLP's for the primary write to the vtl and duplicate off to physical with the VTL acting as the data mover. In theory all this was great but it turns out that the VTL NDMP component is incredibly flakey and we have now had to resort back to traditional methods. Regards David Clooney From: veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu [mailto:veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu] On Behalf Of Conner, Neil Sent: 26 October 2009 22:47 To: Ed Wilts; hkyeak...@gmail.com Cc: Veritas List Subject: Re: [Veritas-bu] NetApp VTL Direct Tape Creation and NetBackup This is a great analysis... However, one thing a VTL is good for is handling slow clients. For me, backing up about a hundred clients to 12 virtual tape drives significantly shortened my backup window compared to backing up to 4 LTO3 drives (I have quite a few slow clients to contend with so backing up straight to the LTO3 drives was never an option anyway). I didn't like how NetApp implemented their direct to tape feature so I use Vault (soon to be Storage Lifecycle Policies) to duplicate images from the VTL to physical tape. I set aside a 5th LTO3 drive for restores. I get great throughput with the Vault jobs and it's pretty much trouble free. Neil On 10/26/09 11:42 AM, Ed Wilts ewi...@ewilts.org wrote: On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 1:00 PM, Heathe Kyle Yeakley hkyeak...@gmail.com wrote: Here's my current layout: Hardware: Spectra Logic T380 with 12 IBM LTO4 tape drives. * I'm told the theoretical bandwidth of an LTO4 tape drive is approximately 120 MB/s. If I have 12 drives, I'm assuming I can say that my library should theoretically be able to handle data at (12 x 120 MB/s) 1,440 MB/s. Not quite true. You can theoretically deliver UNCOMPRESSED data to tape at 1.4GB/sec. However, if you are getting 2:1 compression, you can deliver twice that rate - 2.88GB/sec. If you're getting 3:1 compression, you can deliver 360MB/sec per tape drive. That's 1 dedicated 4Gbps fiber channel port per drive. For 12 drives, you can possible write at 4.3GB/sec depending on your compression ratio. NetBackup: 1 Master (linux), 2 Media (linux), and 3 San Media Servers (Tru64). I suspect you don't have enough media servers to be able to deliver the data rate to keep the tape drives busy. * I have a library that can receive data much faster than my network can deliver it. Welcome to the club :-( The first misunderstanding is that disk is faster than tape. In general, it isn't. You'd be hard pressed to find a disk subsystem that your management is willing to pay for that can actually write at 4.3GB/sec. Management typically thinks that just because they're backups, you can use cheap (SATA) disks without really acknowledging that backups can have the highest I/O workloads of any application that the company runs. Assuming your master server does no tape I/O, you have 5 media servers to put data to tape. That's 2-3 tape drives per media server. You will need at an absolute minimum a pair of HBAs dedicated to tape work - and pray that NetBackup actually will give you 1 tape drive per HBA, which it doesn't even try to do - and you'll need to receive at least 240MB/sec of network traffic - i.e. 3 GigE connections for those non-SAN media servers. Performance management is tough and unless you can clearly identify the bottlenecks you have now, buying hardware is NOT the right answer. You may very likely be throwing money at the wrong problem. If, for example, you don't have enough media servers, you'll have wasted the money on the VTLs. Without de-dupe and assuming 2:1 compression, the VTL 1400 can injest 8.2TB per hour. That's 2.3GB/sec and is actually *LESS* than what your 12 LTO-4 drives are capable of with 2:1 compression (2.8GB/sec). With de-dupe running, you'll get about half that performance out of the VTL (4.3TB/hr) On top of all that, the direct tape creation speed is rated at 3.0TB/hr. That's 0.8GB/sec and now you're significantly less than what your existing tape drives are capable of. why did I buy a VTL? I haven't gained anything from what I see. It depends on the problem you're trying to solve. Assumptions: One of the principle reasons anyone deploys a VTL is because: * Disk is faster than tape at the expense of disk not being removeable and having a lower Mean Time Between Failures than tape. * Backup windows are shrinking. A VTL allows you to create several virtual drives that allow you to write more backups concurrently, thus shrinking your backup window. Both assumptions are actually false. Disk is not faster than tape (see the math above) and although your backup windows are shrinking, a VTL may not allow you to write more backups concurrently. VTLs may solve
Re: [Veritas-bu] Prepare to Restore Retrieve a Point in TimeConfiguration
Adrian Its best to ensure the clients and Master / BMR Server is at the same patch and revision levels at all times, where possible. Simon -Original Message- From: veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu [mailto:veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu] On Behalf Of Adrian Soetanto Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 5:11 AM To: VERITAS-BU@mailman.eng.auburn.edu Subject: Re: [Veritas-bu] Prepare to Restore Retrieve a Point in TimeConfiguration I run Netbackup v6.5.0 and both the server client (Windows Server 2003 SE) are using the same version. The FULL BMR backup was successfully completed without error at all and the BMR information transfer was successful too. Perhaps there's some bugs in NBU 6.5 ? The weird thing is, when I did the Retrieve a Point in Time Configuration through command line (bmrs -operation import -resource config -path C:\restore_test\bundle.dat -client bmr-cl1ent -destination bmr-cl1ent_2_config), the PIT configuration was created successfully and I was able to do the Prepare to Restore as well. Will it be solved if I patch the Netbackup using NB_6.5.3.winnt.x86_314591.exe or NB_6.5.4.winnt.x86_326385.exe ? Thank you all. -Original Message- From: veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu [mailto:veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu] On Behalf Of RyanV Sent: 22 Oktober 2009 1:17 To: VERITAS-BU@MAILMAN.ENG.AUBURN.EDU Subject: [Veritas-bu] Prepare to Restore Retreive a Point in Timequot What version of Netbackup is the client you are trying to restore sitting at? Have you run a FULL backup? Have you verified that there are no errors in the BMR parent job? It will have this in the logs- bmr tranfer successful if the BMR data was sent to the master. Also need to ake sure there are no dirty errors in that BMR parent job. I think both jobs are failing because the backup wasn't clean. Is the boot server at the same NBU patch level as the master server? +-- |This was sent by rv...@ercot.com via Backup Central. |Forward SPAM to ab...@backupcentral.com. +-- ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu This email (including any attachments) may contain confidential and/or privileged information or information otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately, do not copy this message or any attachments and do not use it for any purpose or disclose its content to any person, but delete this message and any attachments from your system. Astrium disclaims any and all liability if this email transmission was virus corrupted, altered or falsified. -o- Astrium Limited, Registered in England and Wales No. 2449259 Registered Office: Gunnels Wood Road, Stevenage, Hertfordshire, SG1 2AS, England ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu
Re: [Veritas-bu] MS SQL Agents
We do a mix and match, but for our 1TB+ DB's we use the online agents for SQL. Saved doing offline dumps to disk, when space is limiting. Plus backups speeds are quite good. But if you do not want the agent, then the SQL DBA will have to ensure the SQL Dumps are set to goto disks and the ownership is for them to recover SQL, rather than NBU Admin. All you need to do is ensure you are doing a file level backup of the path\location where the .bak files reside. Simon From: veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu [mailto:veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu] On Behalf Of Shekel Tal Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 12:46 PM To: Bryan Bahnmiller; Wilcox, Donald A (GE, Research) Cc: veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu Subject: Re: [Veritas-bu] MS SQL Agents I suppose its personal preference. I prefer using agents because: 1. It avoids a two stage recovery if your backup is not on local disk. 2. It puts more control and understanding in the hands of the backup administrator (and more work unfortunately) 3. It avoids scheduling issues - so you don't start backing up to NetBackup before sql has finished dumping the data (although I suppose you could also get around this using a scripted approach) 4. lighter on client resources - you don't have to dump the database and then still have to read it into NetBackup 5. In a large DB environment you can save on storage costs by not having to allocate db dump areas 6. If the DB server is not a media server you can still get pretty good performance, perhaps even better than reading off and writing to direct attached disk, while GigE NW and Jumbo frames The downside is the extra training and as someone pointed out the finger pointing between DBA and backup admins - and of course the cost of the agent From: veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu [mailto:veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu] On Behalf Of Bryan Bahnmiller Sent: 23 October 2009 20:11 To: Wilcox, Donald A (GE, Research) Cc: veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu Subject: Re: [Veritas-bu] MS SQL Agents Don, It entirely depends on your priorities. If you can't afford the cost of the agent, well, that's one way to do it. Although you better be figuring in the total ownership cost of 3X the disk space of having your live db and 2 backup copies online. That is not cheap either. I've always heard the DBA argument that we always want to have fast access to the disk for restores. I can't rebut the argument that the disk is more highly available than the backup system. However, I can say a SQL server backup to local disk, or restore from local disk, using native SQLserver tools has never been as fast as the NetBackup agent backup - that I have ever seen. Not that it is impossible, but in my years I haven't seen it. Also, if you have to go further back for a restore than what you have on disk, it is going to take you several times longer with more potential for errors - restore backup to disk, then restore the db from the disk restore. One more thing I'll say for the NetBackup SQL agent (or Oracle too.) Once I have introduced DBA's to the agent, demonstrated how the agent works, how the DBA's can now completely manage their own backups and restores, they have never gone back. Bryan All, I am currently looking for info on backing up MS SQL boxes and wondered if the agent actually does any type of snapshotting or are there scripts that have to pause the database and then the backup begins? We currently have local scripts in place that put the database in a mainteneance mode and copies data to a data directory. Then the script starts up the database and our Netbackup server comes in and does a regular backup of the box, which includes the data directory. Why would I spend money for an agent when we get backups with this method? _ DTCC DISCLAIMER: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error, please notify us immediately and delete the email and any attachments from your system. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The company accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. This email (including any attachments) may contain confidential and/or privileged information or information otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately, do not copy this message or any attachments and do not use it for any purpose or disclose its content to any person, but delete this message and any attachments from your system. Astrium disclaims any and all liability if this email transmission was virus corrupted, altered or falsified. -o- Astrium
[Veritas-bu] Odd problem with master server restore
Last week I posted a help me when our master server crashed. W2K3R2 enterprise with NBU 6.5.3. The folks out there helped us get rolling on the Hot Catalog restore which worked fine. However we came across another problem. The two obvious symptoms were error 42's on backups, and when mapping a drive you would occasionally get an out of system resources message. My boss dug through the MS KB's and focused on memory management. When he looked at the key below HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\Memory Management He found that the rebuilt server had the System Pages dword set to 0. On our media servers it was set to 798720 decimal. As soon as he hacked the registry the 42's went away. I suspect this dword is supposed to be modified by NBU but don't know for sure. Anyway, something to look out for. Thanks for everyone's help. David Spearman County of Henrico, Va. ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu
[Veritas-bu] NetApp Failover Question
We have clustered NetApp filers ma-atl08 and ma-atl09; both filers are connected to a brocade switch via fiber. Ma-atl09 has two tape drives attached to it. In a failover situation whereas ma-atl09 fails and ma-atl08 takes over, will ma-atl08 takeover control of the two tape drives that are attached to ma-atl09? Will Tucker | Storage Administrator Enterprise Technology Services Manhattan Associates, Inc. Direct +1 678.597.6644 Mobile +1 770.590.5404 wtuc...@manh.com http://www.manh.com/ _ The Supply Chain People(tm) Manhattan Associates -Original Message- From: veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu [mailto:veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu] On Behalf Of Wilkinson, Alex Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 1:51 AM To: veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu Subject: [Veritas-bu] [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]Re: SL500 Tape Library Issue 0n Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 01:45:59AM -0400, NBU wrote: Facing problem with SL500 Tape library as it goes in hang state and no medias get mounted. All backup remains in queue. This is observed once in 2 days time. During problem Console also doesn't fetches any data from library. Only after rebooting the library it does. Following error is received on the Master server during problem. --- -- Sep 13 01:02:05 P038XMST01 tldcd[17544]: [ID 466614 daemon.error] TLD(0) Mode_sense error Sep 13 01:02:32 P038XMST01 tldcd[17544]: [ID 782741 daemon.error] TLD(0) key = 0x2, asc = 0x4, ascq = 0x1, LOGICAL UNIT IS IN PROCESS OF BECOMING READY --- -- We have replaced the robot assembly, then also the problem persists. Any help/suggestions appreciated. What does SLconsole say ? [https://cds.sun.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/WFS/CDS-CDS_SMI-Site/en_U S/-/USD/ViewProductDetail-Start?ProductRef=SSTKSLConsoleFRS-4.10-OTH-G-F @CDS-CDS_SMI] What does robtest(1) say ? -Alex IMPORTANT: This email remains the property of the Australian Defence Organisation and is subject to the jurisdiction of section 70 of the CRIMES ACT 1914. If you have received this email in error, you are requested to contact the sender and delete the email. ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu
Re: [Veritas-bu] NetApp Failover Question
No, this will not happen. If you think about it, when atl09 fails that means this controller is actually down/offline. Since the tape drives are only connected to this controller, there's no way for atl08 to communicate with them. -Original Message- From: veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu [mailto:veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu] On Behalf Of Will Tucker Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 08:45 To: veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu Subject: [Veritas-bu] NetApp Failover Question We have clustered NetApp filers ma-atl08 and ma-atl09; both filers are connected to a brocade switch via fiber. Ma-atl09 has two tape drives attached to it. In a failover situation whereas ma-atl09 fails and ma-atl08 takes over, will ma-atl08 takeover control of the two tape drives that are attached to ma-atl09? Will Tucker | Storage Administrator Enterprise Technology Services Manhattan Associates, Inc. Direct +1 678.597.6644 Mobile +1 770.590.5404 wtuc...@manh.com http://www.manh.com/ _ The Supply Chain People(tm) Manhattan Associates -Original Message- From: veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu [mailto:veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu] On Behalf Of Wilkinson, Alex Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 1:51 AM To: veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu Subject: [Veritas-bu] [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]Re: SL500 Tape Library Issue 0n Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 01:45:59AM -0400, NBU wrote: Facing problem with SL500 Tape library as it goes in hang state and no medias get mounted. All backup remains in queue. This is observed once in 2 days time. During problem Console also doesn't fetches any data from library. Only after rebooting the library it does. Following error is received on the Master server during problem. --- -- Sep 13 01:02:05 P038XMST01 tldcd[17544]: [ID 466614 daemon.error] TLD(0) Mode_sense error Sep 13 01:02:32 P038XMST01 tldcd[17544]: [ID 782741 daemon.error] TLD(0) key = 0x2, asc = 0x4, ascq = 0x1, LOGICAL UNIT IS IN PROCESS OF BECOMING READY --- -- We have replaced the robot assembly, then also the problem persists. Any help/suggestions appreciated. What does SLconsole say ? [https://cds.sun.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/WFS/CDS-CDS_SMI-Site/en_U S/-/USD/ViewProductDetail-Start?ProductRef=SSTKSLConsoleFRS-4.10-OTH-G-F @CDS-CDS_SMI] What does robtest(1) say ? -Alex IMPORTANT: This email remains the property of the Australian Defence Organisation and is subject to the jurisdiction of section 70 of the CRIMES ACT 1914. If you have received this email in error, you are requested to contact the sender and delete the email. ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu
