Re: [Veritas-bu] Legato vs. NetBackup
Hear, hear! What he said! Curtis Preston | VP Data Protection GlassHouse Technologies, Inc. T: +1 760 710 2004 | C: +1 760 419 5838 | F: +1 760 710 2009 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | www.glasshouse.com Infrastructure :: Optimized -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of spaldam Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 1:00 PM To: VERITAS-BU@mailman.eng.auburn.edu Subject: [Veritas-bu] Legato vs. NetBackup I've see this issue come up before: ""Our Backup environment doesn't work very well!!"", and for some reason they think software is the answer; ignoring the fact that the new software also gets new hardware, a newly engineered strategy, and a fresh new install to go with it. NetBackup will also run a lot better if you do the same upgrades, and clean up all the old crap you don't need any more. When I first started working with NetBackup, it was because or vendor for Legato had messed up our agreement and backed out of the deal. I'm glad that it happened which allowed me to now be the experienced NetBackup Administrator I am today. I don't think legato would have given me the opportunities to do many of the wonderful things I've done with NetBackup. But that's more of an emotional reason then a factual one. Just make sure your manager understands that you have to demo Legato with a similar load and infrastructure you NetBackup environment is currently on, or it's not a fair comparison. +-- |This was sent by [EMAIL PROTECTED] via Backup Central. |Forward SPAM to [EMAIL PROTECTED] +-- This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu
[Veritas-bu] Legato vs. NetBackup
I've see this issue come up before: ""Our Backup environment doesnt work very well!!"", and for some reason they think software is the answer; ignoring the fact that the new software also gets new hardware, a newly engineered strategy, and a fresh new install to go with it. NetBackup will also run a lot better if you do the same upgrades, and clean up all the old crap you don't need any more. When I first started working with NetBackup, it was because or vendor for Legato had messed up our agreement and backed out of the deal. Im glad that it happened which allowed me to now be the experienced NetBackup Administrator I am today. I dont think legato would have given me the opportunities to do many of the wonderful things Ive done with NetBackup. But thats more of an emotional reason then a factual one. Just make sure your manager understands that you have to demo Legato with a similar load and infrastructure you NetBackup environment is currently on, or its not a fair comparison. +-- |This was sent by [EMAIL PROTECTED] via Backup Central. |Forward SPAM to [EMAIL PROTECTED] +-- ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu
[Veritas-bu] Legato vs. NetBackup
We have 152 Master backup servers here. We backup just over 2.7PB per month. We have the following backup products: Netbackup - 71 Networker - 52 BackEx - 28 Tivoli TSM - 1 Legato 7.4.2 is stable and the new GUI front-end is nice. I've been doing data protection and disaster recovery for several years now. To sum it all up? If you could roll Netbackup, Networker, and BackEx into a single backup product? You would have one dyno-mite backup product. In short, every backup product has it's problems. Just some have problems more than others. Right now, Netbackup is our problem chiild. [Wink] +-- |This was sent by [EMAIL PROTECTED] via Backup Central. |Forward SPAM to [EMAIL PROTECTED] +-- ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu
Re: [Veritas-bu] Legato vs. NetBackup
I agree :) and I guess we're lucky because our maximum backup retpd is 2 months (data requiring longer periods are done using more generic utilities like dump and tar). When we switched, we ran on new equipment in parallel with the old (system) until the old media expired. Being "locked in" to a particular vendor doesn't have a nice feeling (IMHO) especially considering what other users are experiencing with the latest releases etc (my experience was with NBU6.0 up to MP4), and the vendor's ability to make easier pricing changes. /Steve On Wed, 1 Oct 2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think what he meant is, in a general sense, you're going to be locked in to pretty much any vendor, not just Symantec/NBU, due to how it operates with the library and tape media. Not very many installed solutions will allow sharing the library, and they definitely won't allow you to share media or servers. So at a minimum you'll have to buy new tapes and servers, plus the software costs. Hence, locked in. Rusty Major, MCSE, BCFP, VCS ??? Sr. Storage Engineer ??? SunGard Availability Services ??? 757 N. Eldridge Suite 200, Houston TX 77079 ??? 281-584-4693 Keeping People and Information Connected?? ??? http://availability.sungard.com/ P Think before you print CONFIDENTIALITY: This e-mail (including any attachments) may contain confidential, proprietary and privileged information, and unauthorized disclosure or use is prohibited. If you received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender and delete this e-mail from your system. Steve Quan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/01/2008 03:53 PM To Ed Wilts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cc veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu, "BeDour, Wayne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject Re: [Veritas-bu] Legato vs. NetBackup I'm surprised about the "locked in" comment. Can you explain ? We were a Legato NetWorker shop that was persuaded to go the Veritas NetBackup route because of their pricing. Seems that they've gotten more expensive and our experience since NetBackup 6.0 didn't help either. Other backup vendors are starting to get more attention ... /Steve --- On Wed, 1 Oct 2008, Ed Wilts wrote: On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 2:16 PM, BeDour, Wayne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: EMC has grabbed my managers ear and wants to demo Legato. We've been running NetBackup since 3.4 and I'm in no hurry to change. Anyone out there with any Legato vs. NetBackup thoughts? Ask your manager if he's willing to purchase a new robot, all new backup servers, and licenses for all of your clients, and discard all of your old backup tapes. Unless NetBackup is really, really broken for you, you're kind of locked in. .../Ed Ed Wilts, RHCE, BCFP, BCSD, SCSP, SCSE [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu
Re: [Veritas-bu] Legato vs. NetBackup
You may find this article useful : http://searchstorage.techtarget.co.uk/news/column/0,294698,sid181_gci1321159,00.html?track=sy60 Cheers, Dean On Thu, Oct 2, 2008 at 6:40 AM, Ed Wilts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 3:25 PM, Steve Quan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> I'm surprised about the "locked in" comment. Can you explain ? > > It's actually hard and expensive to migrate from one platform to another. > For example, if I wanted to switch to CommVault, I couldn't, because they > don't support all of the platforms we currently have. We've also got tapes > out there with a 10-year retention - rewriting and re-cataloging those in a > new format would be a massive undertaking. I wouldn't want to install 2 > backup agents on each client so that they could restore from an old > environment while writing to a new one. And running them in parallel > doubles your costs for robots, drives, media, and backup servers. Not to > mention the re-training of your staff, including new staff you may hire in > the future that now needs to know 2 backup systems, not just 1. > >> >> Other backup vendors are starting to get more attention ... > > And they probably deserve some attention. However, as a new installation, > not a migration, unless you want to run multiple backup systems at the same > time. > > >> >> >> /Steve >> --- >> On Wed, 1 Oct 2008, Ed Wilts wrote: >> >>> On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 2:16 PM, BeDour, Wayne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> EMC has grabbed my managers ear and wants to demo Legato. We've been running NetBackup since 3.4 and I'm in no hurry to change. Anyone out there with any Legato vs. NetBackup thoughts? >>> >>> Ask your manager if he's willing to purchase a new robot, all new backup >>> servers, and licenses for all of your clients, and discard all of your >>> old >>> backup tapes. >>> >>> Unless NetBackup is really, really broken for you, you're kind of locked >>> in. >>> >>> >>> .../Ed >>> >>> Ed Wilts, RHCE, BCFP, BCSD, SCSP, SCSE >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> > > > .../Ed > > Ed Wilts, RHCE, BCFP, BCSD, SCSP, SCSE > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > ___ > Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu > http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu > > ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu
Re: [Veritas-bu] Legato vs. NetBackup
Don't forget the massive hit your SLAs are going to take while your staff figure out how to troubleshoot just the simple Networker errors (i.e. client backup failed), let alone anything complex that may hit your environment (i.e. Networker Master stops functioning for non-obvious reasons). Even if consulting services are provided for the transition period, will it be long enough for you and your team to become Networker experts like the consultants (hopefully) are ? After the transition is complete, how many years will it take for your backup staff to achieve the same level of expertise with Networker that they have with NetBackup ? Got any custom backup-related scripts ? You'll have to rewrite them. Any custom reporting ? Plan on rewriting that too. Commercial reporting solutions probably won't be too hard to cutover though, just install the new agent(s) on the new infrastructure. Couch any arguments into language management understands : additional hardware costs, software licenses, H/W & S/W maintenance costs, any additional SAN space needed, SLA issues, training classes, any additional FTEs, man hours, etc. - John Nardello -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 1:00 PM To: veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu Subject: Re: [Veritas-bu] Legato vs. NetBackup > EMC has grabbed my managers ear and wants to demo Legato. We've > been running NetBackup since 3.4 and I'm in no hurry to change. > Anyone out there with any Legato vs. NetBackup thoughts? Be sure to ask what the cost would be to purchase all the required Legato licenses, and extra media to use while your environment transitions from one backup product to another (you'll probably want to set aside all your NetBackup tapes until they retire, while maintaining a server that can restore from them). We previously had both a NetBackup and a NetWorker installation here. The deciding factor for which one to consolidate on came down to the cost of purchasing the additional licenses: we'd have needed to purchase a lot more NetWorker licenses than NetBackup licenses due to the asymmetry of the installations. - Bluejay Adametz I like long walks, especially when they are taken by people who annoy me. -Noel Coward ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu
Re: [Veritas-bu] Legato vs. NetBackup
I think what he meant is, in a general sense, you're going to be locked in to pretty much any vendor, not just Symantec/NBU, due to how it operates with the library and tape media. Not very many installed solutions will allow sharing the library, and they definitely won't allow you to share media or servers. So at a minimum you'll have to buy new tapes and servers, plus the software costs. Hence, locked in. Rusty Major, MCSE, BCFP, VCS ▪ Sr. Storage Engineer ▪ SunGard Availability Services ▪ 757 N. Eldridge Suite 200, Houston TX 77079 ▪ 281-584-4693 Keeping People and Information Connected® ▪ http://availability.sungard.com/ P Think before you print CONFIDENTIALITY: This e-mail (including any attachments) may contain confidential, proprietary and privileged information, and unauthorized disclosure or use is prohibited. If you received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender and delete this e-mail from your system. Steve Quan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/01/2008 03:53 PM To Ed Wilts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cc veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu, "BeDour, Wayne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject Re: [Veritas-bu] Legato vs. NetBackup I'm surprised about the "locked in" comment. Can you explain ? We were a Legato NetWorker shop that was persuaded to go the Veritas NetBackup route because of their pricing. Seems that they've gotten more expensive and our experience since NetBackup 6.0 didn't help either. Other backup vendors are starting to get more attention ... /Steve --- On Wed, 1 Oct 2008, Ed Wilts wrote: > On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 2:16 PM, BeDour, Wayne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> EMC has grabbed my managers ear and wants to demo Legato. We've been >> running NetBackup since 3.4 and I'm in no hurry to change. Anyone out there >> with any Legato vs. NetBackup thoughts? >> > > Ask your manager if he's willing to purchase a new robot, all new backup > servers, and licenses for all of your clients, and discard all of your old > backup tapes. > > Unless NetBackup is really, really broken for you, you're kind of locked in. > > >.../Ed > > Ed Wilts, RHCE, BCFP, BCSD, SCSP, SCSE > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu
Re: [Veritas-bu] Legato vs. NetBackup
Unless Netbackup is really, really broken, why bother changing? What is it that Legato can do that NBU can't? I'd ask your manager what he thinks the problem is with NBU and why he'd consider a new application, and go from there addressing those issues. Rusty Major, MCSE, BCFP, VCS ▪ Sr. Storage Engineer ▪ SunGard Availability Services ▪ 757 N. Eldridge Suite 200, Houston TX 77079 ▪ 281-584-4693 Keeping People and Information Connected® ▪ http://availability.sungard.com/ P Think before you print CONFIDENTIALITY: This e-mail (including any attachments) may contain confidential, proprietary and privileged information, and unauthorized disclosure or use is prohibited. If you received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender and delete this e-mail from your system. "Ed Wilts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/01/2008 03:46 PM To "BeDour, Wayne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cc veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu Subject Re: [Veritas-bu] Legato vs. NetBackup On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 2:16 PM, BeDour, Wayne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: EMC has grabbed my managers ear and wants to demo Legato. We've been running NetBackup since 3.4 and I'm in no hurry to change. Anyone out there with any Legato vs. NetBackup thoughts? Ask your manager if he's willing to purchase a new robot, all new backup servers, and licenses for all of your clients, and discard all of your old backup tapes. Unless NetBackup is really, really broken for you, you're kind of locked in. .../Ed Ed Wilts, RHCE, BCFP, BCSD, SCSP, SCSE [EMAIL PROTECTED] Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu
Re: [Veritas-bu] Legato vs. NetBackup
On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 3:25 PM, Steve Quan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'm surprised about the "locked in" comment. Can you explain ? It's actually hard and expensive to migrate from one platform to another. For example, if I wanted to switch to CommVault, I couldn't, because they don't support all of the platforms we currently have. We've also got tapes out there with a 10-year retention - rewriting and re-cataloging those in a new format would be a massive undertaking. I wouldn't want to install 2 backup agents on each client so that they could restore from an old environment while writing to a new one. And running them in parallel doubles your costs for robots, drives, media, and backup servers. Not to mention the re-training of your staff, including new staff you may hire in the future that now needs to know 2 backup systems, not just 1. > Other backup vendors are starting to get more attention ... And they probably deserve some attention. However, as a new installation, not a migration, unless you want to run multiple backup systems at the same time. > > > /Steve > --- > > On Wed, 1 Oct 2008, Ed Wilts wrote: > > On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 2:16 PM, BeDour, Wayne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> EMC has grabbed my managers ear and wants to demo Legato. We've been >>> running NetBackup since 3.4 and I'm in no hurry to change. Anyone out >>> there >>> with any Legato vs. NetBackup thoughts? >>> >>> >> Ask your manager if he's willing to purchase a new robot, all new backup >> servers, and licenses for all of your clients, and discard all of your old >> backup tapes. >> >> Unless NetBackup is really, really broken for you, you're kind of locked >> in. >> >> >> .../Ed >> >> Ed Wilts, RHCE, BCFP, BCSD, SCSP, SCSE >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> .../Ed Ed Wilts, RHCE, BCFP, BCSD, SCSP, SCSE [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu
Re: [Veritas-bu] Legato vs. NetBackup
I'm surprised about the "locked in" comment. Can you explain ? We were a Legato NetWorker shop that was persuaded to go the Veritas NetBackup route because of their pricing. Seems that they've gotten more expensive and our experience since NetBackup 6.0 didn't help either. Other backup vendors are starting to get more attention ... /Steve --- On Wed, 1 Oct 2008, Ed Wilts wrote: > On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 2:16 PM, BeDour, Wayne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> EMC has grabbed my managers ear and wants to demo Legato. We've been >> running NetBackup since 3.4 and I'm in no hurry to change. Anyone out there >> with any Legato vs. NetBackup thoughts? >> > > Ask your manager if he's willing to purchase a new robot, all new backup > servers, and licenses for all of your clients, and discard all of your old > backup tapes. > > Unless NetBackup is really, really broken for you, you're kind of locked in. > > >.../Ed > > Ed Wilts, RHCE, BCFP, BCSD, SCSP, SCSE > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu
Re: [Veritas-bu] Legato vs. NetBackup
> EMC has grabbed my managers ear and wants to demo Legato. We’ve > been running NetBackup since 3.4 and I’m in no hurry to change. > Anyone out there with any Legato vs. NetBackup thoughts? Be sure to ask what the cost would be to purchase all the required Legato licenses, and extra media to use while your environment transitions from one backup product to another (you'll probably want to set aside all your NetBackup tapes until they retire, while maintaining a server that can restore from them). We previously had both a NetBackup and a NetWorker installation here. The deciding factor for which one to consolidate on came down to the cost of purchasing the additional licenses: we'd have needed to purchase a lot more NetWorker licenses than NetBackup licenses due to the asymmetry of the installations. - Bluejay Adametz I like long walks, especially when they are taken by people who annoy me. -Noel Coward ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu
Re: [Veritas-bu] Legato vs. NetBackup
On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 2:16 PM, BeDour, Wayne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > EMC has grabbed my managers ear and wants to demo Legato. We've been > running NetBackup since 3.4 and I'm in no hurry to change. Anyone out there > with any Legato vs. NetBackup thoughts? > Ask your manager if he's willing to purchase a new robot, all new backup servers, and licenses for all of your clients, and discard all of your old backup tapes. Unless NetBackup is really, really broken for you, you're kind of locked in. .../Ed Ed Wilts, RHCE, BCFP, BCSD, SCSP, SCSE [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu
[Veritas-bu] Legato vs. NetBackup
EMC has grabbed my managers ear and wants to demo Legato. We've been running NetBackup since 3.4 and I'm in no hurry to change. Anyone out there with any Legato vs. NetBackup thoughts? Thanks in advance... Wayne BeDour Unix System Administrator PH: 313-593-9876 Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** ** LEGAL DISCLAIMER ** ** This E-mail message and any attachments may contain legally privileged, confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient(s), or the employee or agent responsible for delivery of this message to the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this E-mail message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender and delete this E-mail message from your computer.___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu
