Re: [Veritas-bu] Deduping with Tape as a final destination
All of the deduplication products available currently provide deduplication only at the disk STU. Whether you use their mechanisms or NetBackup Vault to later copy that data off onto tape media, the data written to tape will be reduplicated. A DataDomain sales rep mentioned, when a coworker pursued this same question some time ago, that they knew of various customer requests to maintain deduplication on tape media, but it's not something NetBackup currently provides a way to manage (remember that deduplication devices are essentially black boxes for NetBackup: they're taking care of the hashing of data, but on recovery they're recovering the full data set, and the same thing when you run a duplication job to tape), and it's a questionable desire with regards to DR strategy. I certainly see how it sounds attractive for media purchasing and slot space at Iron Mountain, but it does change the meaning of a tape back for DR purposes and the way you'd use that backup. -- gabriel rosenkoetter Radian Group Inc, Unix/Linux/VMware Sysadmin / Backup Recovery [EMAIL PROTECTED], 215 231 1556 -Original Message- From: mbpettis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 3:55 PM To: VERITAS-BU@mailman.eng.auburn.edu Subject: [Veritas-bu] Deduping with Tape as a final destination So, ultimately, the data copied to the tape will be the full amount of the data and not the deduped data? For example, the original 100GB deduped down to 20GB will be the full 100GB and not the 20GB? Or will it be the 20GB, with Netbackup referring back to the index and/or base data? Thanks, Michael +-- |This was sent by [EMAIL PROTECTED] via Backup Central. |Forward SPAM to [EMAIL PROTECTED] +-- ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu
Re: [Veritas-bu] Deduping with Tape as a final destination
Actually - EMC just gave a presentation here of their BURA (BackUP/Recovery/Archive) stuff. I gather the deduplication device they sell will allow you to backup to tape if you want but not with NBU unfortunately. To use NBU you'd still have to do standard duplication/vaulting. We're doing vaulting from our dedupe Data Domain devices to tape. If you really only want to store deduped data remotely you might want to look at putting a unit at offsite storage or your DR site. Both Data Domain and EMC allow you to push the deduped data across WAN that way. I'm guessing the other vendors do as well. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rosenkoetter, Gabriel Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 10:35 AM To: VERITAS-BU@mailman.eng.auburn.edu Subject: Re: [Veritas-bu] Deduping with Tape as a final destination All of the deduplication products available currently provide deduplication only at the disk STU. Whether you use their mechanisms or NetBackup Vault to later copy that data off onto tape media, the data written to tape will be reduplicated. A DataDomain sales rep mentioned, when a coworker pursued this same question some time ago, that they knew of various customer requests to maintain deduplication on tape media, but it's not something NetBackup currently provides a way to manage (remember that deduplication devices are essentially black boxes for NetBackup: they're taking care of the hashing of data, but on recovery they're recovering the full data set, and the same thing when you run a duplication job to tape), and it's a questionable desire with regards to DR strategy. I certainly see how it sounds attractive for media purchasing and slot space at Iron Mountain, but it does change the meaning of a tape back for DR purposes and the way you'd use that backup. -- gabriel rosenkoetter Radian Group Inc, Unix/Linux/VMware Sysadmin / Backup Recovery [EMAIL PROTECTED], 215 231 1556 -Original Message- From: mbpettis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 3:55 PM To: VERITAS-BU@mailman.eng.auburn.edu Subject: [Veritas-bu] Deduping with Tape as a final destination So, ultimately, the data copied to the tape will be the full amount of the data and not the deduped data? For example, the original 100GB deduped down to 20GB will be the full 100GB and not the 20GB? Or will it be the 20GB, with Netbackup referring back to the index and/or base data? Thanks, Michael +-- |This was sent by [EMAIL PROTECTED] via Backup Central. |Forward SPAM to [EMAIL PROTECTED] +-- ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu -- CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail may contain privileged or confidential information and is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this information is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please reply immediately to the sender that you have received the message in error, and delete it. Thank you. -- ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu
Re: [Veritas-bu] Deduping with Tape as a final destination
Correct. You do not want to be dependant on the index of your de-dupe appliance to recover from tape. -- -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of mbpettis Sent: April 26, 2008 3:55 PM To: VERITAS-BU@mailman.eng.auburn.edu Subject: [Veritas-bu] Deduping with Tape as a final destination So, ultimately, the data copied to the tape will be the full amount of the data and not the deduped data? For example, the original 100GB deduped down to 20GB will be the full 100GB and not the 20GB? La version française suit le texte anglais. This email may contain privileged and/or confidential information, and the Bank of Canada does not waive any related rights. Any distribution, use, or copying of this email or the information it contains by other than the intended recipient is unauthorized. If you received this email in error please delete it immediately from your system and notify the sender promptly by email that you have done so. Le présent courriel peut contenir de l'information privilégiée ou confidentielle. La Banque du Canada ne renonce pas aux droits qui s'y rapportent. Toute diffusion, utilisation ou copie de ce courriel ou des renseignements qu'il contient par une personne autre que le ou les destinataires désignés est interdite. Si vous recevez ce courriel par erreur, veuillez le supprimer immédiatement et envoyer sans délai à l'expéditeur un message électronique pour l'aviser que vous avez éliminé de votre ordinateur toute copie du courriel reçu. ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu
Re: [Veritas-bu] Deduping with Tape as a final destination
CommVault is doing file-level dedupe. Their point is that we already have the file on tape, why back it up again. What you're asking about is sub-file-level dedupe, which would be silly to copy to tape in it's deduped format, for all the reasons others have stated. --- W. Curtis Preston Backup Blog @ www.backupcentral.com VP Data Protection, GlassHouse Technologies -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:veritas-bu- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jon Bousselot Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 7:30 PM To: VERITAS-BU@mailman.eng.auburn.edu Subject: Re: [Veritas-bu] Deduping with Tape as a final destination As I understand the PureDisk product, yes. The copy that goes to tape will be the full data set. I believe the product is positioned save space and time from the client and on the equivalent of a DSU. You can run PureDisk along with NBU, so the stream of data that comes from the client is inspected for duplicate data (on the media server), and then space is saved. As a PD client, it inspects data at even smaller chunks, but does the work at the client and sends the changes to the PD repository. I looked at the Commvault 7 documentation, and it was not obvious to me what the contents of the final tape copy would be. If I were going to use tape as a final resting place, and use slow cheap disk as a de-dup location, I would like the tape copy to be the simplest format possible for reading in the future. And it would be nice if those archive tapes did not need a complex road map of re-dup chunks to assemble the data. On a PureDisk server, you can eliminate duplicate data from all your client images, because at any time you can get that data back from the single instance which lives on your random access media. I'm having a hard time conceptualizing the process by which a 100G client de-duped down to a 20G backup tape would be processed for a restore. The bits have to come from somewhere, which is why I'm a bit confused on how Commvault is doing it. I need to read their docs again. -Jon So, ultimately, the data copied to the tape will be the full amount of the data and not the deduped data? For example, the original 100GB deduped down to 20GB will be the full 100GB and not the 20GB? Or will it be the 20GB, with Netbackup referring back to the index and/or base data? Thanks, Michael ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu
Re: [Veritas-bu] Deduping with Tape as a final destination
As I understand the PureDisk product, yes. The copy that goes to tape will be the full data set. I believe the product is positioned save space and time from the client and on the equivalent of a DSU. You can run PureDisk along with NBU, so the stream of data that comes from the client is inspected for duplicate data (on the media server), and then space is saved. As a PD client, it inspects data at even smaller chunks, but does the work at the client and sends the changes to the PD repository. I looked at the Commvault 7 documentation, and it was not obvious to me what the contents of the final tape copy would be. If I were going to use tape as a final resting place, and use slow cheap disk as a de-dup location, I would like the tape copy to be the simplest format possible for reading in the future. And it would be nice if those archive tapes did not need a complex road map of re-dup chunks to assemble the data. On a PureDisk server, you can eliminate duplicate data from all your client images, because at any time you can get that data back from the single instance which lives on your random access media. I'm having a hard time conceptualizing the process by which a 100G client de-duped down to a 20G backup tape would be processed for a restore. The bits have to come from somewhere, which is why I'm a bit confused on how Commvault is doing it. I need to read their docs again. -Jon So, ultimately, the data copied to the tape will be the full amount of the data and not the deduped data? For example, the original 100GB deduped down to 20GB will be the full 100GB and not the 20GB? Or will it be the 20GB, with Netbackup referring back to the index and/or base data? Thanks, Michael ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu
[Veritas-bu] Deduping with Tape as a final destination
Hi, All. Just trying to get some clarification here. We currently have NBU 6.0MP6 on Win2003, with a Sepaton VTL and a Dell tape library with FC. We're looking at two possible directions at this time: 1) Going to NBU6.5 or 2) Going to CommVault as our backup options and, in either case looking to Dedupe. Whether to use Sepaton's target based or the backup app's source based Dedupe solution, is still being pondered. My question is actually rather simple; if we are backing up/deduping to the Sepaton and want to then copy the data to tape, will it be a matter of a straight copy from VTL to tape? Or will this require un-deduping from the VTL and the re-deduping to tape? Thanks, Michael +-- |This was sent by [EMAIL PROTECTED] via Backup Central. |Forward SPAM to [EMAIL PROTECTED] +-- ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu
Re: [Veritas-bu] Deduping with Tape as a final destination
The VTL will redupe it when handing it to NBU to copy to tape, but that should happen at line speed and not affect the speed of your copy. --- W. Curtis Preston Backup Blog @ www.backupcentral.com VP Data Protection, GlassHouse Technologies -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:veritas-bu- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of mbpettis Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 11:45 AM To: VERITAS-BU@mailman.eng.auburn.edu Subject: [Veritas-bu] Deduping with Tape as a final destination Hi, All. Just trying to get some clarification here. We currently have NBU 6.0MP6 on Win2003, with a Sepaton VTL and a Dell tape library with FC. We're looking at two possible directions at this time: 1) Going to NBU6.5 or 2) Going to CommVault as our backup options and, in either case looking to Dedupe. Whether to use Sepaton's target based or the backup app's source based Dedupe solution, is still being pondered. My question is actually rather simple; if we are backing up/deduping to the Sepaton and want to then copy the data to tape, will it be a matter of a straight copy from VTL to tape? Or will this require un-deduping from the VTL and the re-deduping to tape? Thanks, Michael +-- |This was sent by [EMAIL PROTECTED] via Backup Central. |Forward SPAM to [EMAIL PROTECTED] +-- ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu
