Re: [Veritas-bu] MS SQL Agents
We do a mix and match, but for our 1TB+ DB's we use the online agents for SQL. Saved doing offline dumps to disk, when space is limiting. Plus backups speeds are quite good. But if you do not want the agent, then the SQL DBA will have to ensure the SQL Dumps are set to goto disks and the ownership is for them to recover SQL, rather than NBU Admin. All you need to do is ensure you are doing a file level backup of the path\location where the .bak files reside. Simon From: veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu [mailto:veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu] On Behalf Of Shekel Tal Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 12:46 PM To: Bryan Bahnmiller; Wilcox, Donald A (GE, Research) Cc: veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu Subject: Re: [Veritas-bu] MS SQL Agents I suppose its personal preference. I prefer using agents because: 1. It avoids a two stage recovery if your backup is not on local disk. 2. It puts more control and understanding in the hands of the backup administrator (and more work unfortunately) 3. It avoids scheduling issues - so you don't start backing up to NetBackup before sql has finished dumping the data (although I suppose you could also get around this using a scripted approach) 4. lighter on client resources - you don't have to dump the database and then still have to read it into NetBackup 5. In a large DB environment you can save on storage costs by not having to allocate db dump areas 6. If the DB server is not a media server you can still get pretty good performance, perhaps even better than reading off and writing to direct attached disk, while GigE NW and Jumbo frames The downside is the extra training and as someone pointed out the finger pointing between DBA and backup admins - and of course the cost of the agent From: veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu [mailto:veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu] On Behalf Of Bryan Bahnmiller Sent: 23 October 2009 20:11 To: Wilcox, Donald A (GE, Research) Cc: veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu Subject: Re: [Veritas-bu] MS SQL Agents Don, It entirely depends on your priorities. If you can't afford the cost of the agent, well, that's one way to do it. Although you better be figuring in the total ownership cost of 3X the disk space of having your live db and 2 backup copies online. That is not cheap either. I've always heard the DBA argument that we always want to have fast access to the disk for restores. I can't rebut the argument that the disk is more highly available than the backup system. However, I can say a SQL server backup to local disk, or restore from local disk, using native SQLserver tools has never been as fast as the NetBackup agent backup - that I have ever seen. Not that it is impossible, but in my years I haven't seen it. Also, if you have to go further back for a restore than what you have on disk, it is going to take you several times longer with more potential for errors - restore backup to disk, then restore the db from the disk restore. One more thing I'll say for the NetBackup SQL agent (or Oracle too.) Once I have introduced DBA's to the agent, demonstrated how the agent works, how the DBA's can now completely manage their own backups and restores, they have never gone back. Bryan All, I am currently looking for info on backing up MS SQL boxes and wondered if the agent actually does any type of snapshotting or are there scripts that have to pause the database and then the backup begins? We currently have local scripts in place that put the database in a mainteneance mode and copies data to a data directory. Then the script starts up the database and our Netbackup server comes in and does a regular backup of the box, which includes the data directory. Why would I spend money for an agent when we get backups with this method? _ DTCC DISCLAIMER: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error, please notify us immediately and delete the email and any attachments from your system. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The company accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. This email (including any attachments) may contain confidential and/or privileged information or information otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately, do not copy this message or any attachments and do not use it for any purpose or disclose its content to any person, but delete this message and any attachments from your system. Astrium disclaims any and all liability if this email transmission was virus corrupted, altered or falsified. -o- Astrium
Re: [Veritas-bu] MS SQL Agents
I suppose its personal preference. I prefer using agents because: 1. It avoids a two stage recovery if your backup is not on local disk. 2. It puts more control and understanding in the hands of the backup administrator (and more work unfortunately) 3. It avoids scheduling issues - so you don't start backing up to NetBackup before sql has finished dumping the data (although I suppose you could also get around this using a scripted approach) 4. lighter on client resources - you don't have to dump the database and then still have to read it into NetBackup 5. In a large DB environment you can save on storage costs by not having to allocate db dump areas 6. If the DB server is not a media server you can still get pretty good performance, perhaps even better than reading off and writing to direct attached disk, while GigE NW and Jumbo frames The downside is the extra training and as someone pointed out the finger pointing between DBA and backup admins - and of course the cost of the agent From: veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu [mailto:veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu] On Behalf Of Bryan Bahnmiller Sent: 23 October 2009 20:11 To: Wilcox, Donald A (GE, Research) Cc: veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu Subject: Re: [Veritas-bu] MS SQL Agents Don, It entirely depends on your priorities. If you can't afford the cost of the agent, well, that's one way to do it. Although you better be figuring in the total ownership cost of 3X the disk space of having your live db and 2 backup copies online. That is not cheap either. I've always heard the DBA argument that we always want to have fast access to the disk for restores. I can't rebut the argument that the disk is more highly available than the backup system. However, I can say a SQL server backup to local disk, or restore from local disk, using native SQLserver tools has never been as fast as the NetBackup agent backup - that I have ever seen. Not that it is impossible, but in my years I haven't seen it. Also, if you have to go further back for a restore than what you have on disk, it is going to take you several times longer with more potential for errors - restore backup to disk, then restore the db from the disk restore. One more thing I'll say for the NetBackup SQL agent (or Oracle too.) Once I have introduced DBA's to the agent, demonstrated how the agent works, how the DBA's can now completely manage their own backups and restores, they have never gone back. Bryan All, I am currently looking for info on backing up MS SQL boxes and wondered if the agent actually does any type of snapshotting or are there scripts that have to pause the database and then the backup begins? We currently have local scripts in place that put the database in a mainteneance mode and copies data to a data directory. Then the script starts up the database and our Netbackup server comes in and does a regular backup of the box, which includes the data directory. Why would I spend money for an agent when we get backups with this method? _ DTCC DISCLAIMER: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error, please notify us immediately and delete the email and any attachments from your system. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The company accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu
Re: [Veritas-bu] MS SQL Agents
On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 02:23:09PM -0400, Wilcox, Donald A (GE, Research) wrote: Doesn't appear to have anything to do with shared libraries, so I changed the subject. All, I am currently looking for info on backing up MS SQL boxes and wondered if the agent actually does any type of snapshotting or are there scripts that have to pause the database and then the backup begins? It doesn't have to pause for the entire backup period. The impact is similar to doing a local SQL backup to disk while the database is up. We currently have local scripts in place that put the database in a mainteneance mode and copies data to a data directory. Then the script starts up the database and our Netbackup server comes in and does a regular backup of the box, which includes the data directory. Why would I spend money for an agent when we get backups with this method? You may not want to. But there are features you get from the agent. * Don't have to maintain local scripts. They can break and people can forget about them. I've been called in to places that had 4 months of good backups on tape that were worthless because the local script had been disabled and the files being backed up weren't current. * DBA visibility of backups, ability to restore directly. Don't have to do a file restore followed by a DB restore. DBA can easily tell which tape backup has what data on it. * No local storage required for a second copy. Can roll straight to your media device. * Agent can tie into other NBU features like Advanced/Snapshot client for low I/O impact of backup and fast restores. I'm sure there are other features that assist DBAs more than backup admins like me. -- Darren ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu
Re: [Veritas-bu] MS SQL Agents
Don, It entirely depends on your priorities. If you can't afford the cost of the agent, well, that's one way to do it. Although you better be figuring in the total ownership cost of 3X the disk space of having your live db and 2 backup copies online. That is not cheap either. I've always heard the DBA argument that we always want to have fast access to the disk for restores. I can't rebut the argument that the disk is more highly available than the backup system. However, I can say a SQL server backup to local disk, or restore from local disk, using native SQLserver tools has never been as fast as the NetBackup agent backup - that I have ever seen. Not that it is impossible, but in my years I haven't seen it. Also, if you have to go further back for a restore than what you have on disk, it is going to take you several times longer with more potential for errors - restore backup to disk, then restore the db from the disk restore. One more thing I'll say for the NetBackup SQL agent (or Oracle too.) Once I have introduced DBA's to the agent, demonstrated how the agent works, how the DBA's can now completely manage their own backups and restores, they have never gone back. Bryan All, I am currently looking for info on backing up MS SQL boxes and wondered if the agent actually does any type of snapshotting or are there scripts that have to pause the database and then the backup begins? We currently have local scripts in place that put the database in a mainteneance mode and copies data to a data directory. Then the script starts up the database and our Netbackup server comes in and does a regular backup of the box, which includes the data directory. Why would I spend money for an agent when we get backups with this method? BR_ FONT size=2BR DTCC DISCLAIMER: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error, please notify us immediately and delete the email and any attachments from your system. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The company accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email./FONT___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu
