Re: [Veritas-bu] Question for NetBackup 7.0 Dedup user ORData Domain users
Using the ddboost ost plugin from Data Domain in conjunction with Netbackup moves the metabase comparisons from the data domain appliance to the media server. This dramatically reduces the amount of backup traffic being sent to the data domain and speeds up the backups considerably. We looked at NBU 7's built in dedupe and saw ok numbers on small file, OS type backup data but for applications like exchange where we currently store around 40 full copies in 1.8TB of space on our data domains, we couldn't get 4 copies in the same amount of space using netbackup's dedupe. The fixed block dedupe algorithm of netbackups built in dedupe cannot handle large files as well as the variable block compression algorithms of the data domain. Also.. from a licensing point of view we worked out it was essentially $1000 per TB to license dedupe in Netbackup (Enterprise disk option and dedupe is licensed per TB). This is something you have to factor in, especially if you have a large environment. Replication of this backed up data is something else you'd need to devise a solution for. With data Domain, the replication part is easy. Mark Glazerman Desk: 314-889-8282 Cell: 618-520-3401 please don't print this e-mail unless you really need to -Original Message- From: veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu [mailto:veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu] On Behalf Of stefanos Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 3:02 AM To: 'Travis Kelley'; judy_hinchcli...@administaff.com; cal...@kforce.com; veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu Subject: Re: [Veritas-bu] Question for NetBackup 7.0 Dedup user ORData Domain users The big difference between DataDomain (and all appliances) and nebackup deduplication option is that netbackup can do the process on the client. This will speed up the time of the backup. With DD and netbackup media server deduplication, nothing will change at your backup time, as all your data will travel to the media server. Do not listen to the companies about the deduplication ratio. Your data is unique, and nobody can predict the ratio. Ask for a demo from both companies. -Original Message- From: veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu [mailto:veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu] On Behalf Of Travis Kelley Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 12:38 AM To: judy_hinchcli...@administaff.com; cal...@kforce.com; veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu Subject: Re: [Veritas-bu] Question for NetBackup 7.0 Dedup user OR Data Domain users Data domain also has a limit to the amount of data one of their units can track but its fairly high. If you need more than 32TB of deduped data in PD you do need to deploy a seperate puredisk environment. Then PD just splits the hash space into chunks and stores data on whichever node it hases to. I'm not sure what their upper limit is but it can scale quite high also. On 8/24/10, judy_hinchcli...@administaff.com wrote: > Remember that the built in de-dup as a limit on the amount of data it can > keep track of. > Over that amount you need to use a de-dup appliance. > > > From: veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu > [mailto:veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu] On Behalf Of Alley, Chris > Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 4:09 PM > To: veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu > Subject: [Veritas-bu] Question for NetBackup 7.0 Dedup user OR Data Domain > users > > We are looking to change our backups to a disk based deduplication solution, > and 2 of our options are to utilize NetBackup 7.0's built in dedupe (Client > and Media server) or to put a Data Domain box in. I wanted to see if I > could get some real world feedback on what you guys have been seeing in > terms of dedupe rates, performance, etc. For example Data Domain claims we > would only see about 5:1 dedupe rate using NetBackup, which seems quite a > bit lower than what I would expectand of course they claim they would > get about 20:1. I realize that all data is different, which is why I have > hopes that several people will reply with what they are seeing. Thanks for > your time! > ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu
Re: [Veritas-bu] Question for NetBackup 7.0 Dedup user ORData Domain users
As I've written previously on this list, I'm a Quantum 6550 customer ... smaller than the questioner's system, backing up about 10T from 120 or so clients on NetBackup v6.5 and OST. I'm a big fan of OST if you go with a Data Domain or Quantum appliance. I looked at Quantum OST a year ago, but it's significantly improved through 2010. While NetBackup v7.0 wasn't available when we were acquiring our current setup, we don't have experience with the new offering for VMWare backup. Previous versions did not work well for us, so we're using NetApp SnapVault for the most of the VM backups. File-level and client restore isn't what it could be, but we're writing tools to overcome that. The very low impact to VMWare production of snapshots is a big win over traditional backup. We're migrating our Oracle DB backups from NetBackup agent backups to homegrown RMAN scripts writing to a Quantum NAS share, with a separate share for each of our DB groups. IMHO, the NetBackup Oracle agent is overpriced and underdeveloped (at least through v6.5), so this is a winner for us. The new scripts are nearly the same as the agent scripts we used. It appears the biggest problem with this new solution is monitoring, as we no longer have NetBackup and StorageConsole (StorageScape in our case) to do the heavy lifting. Cheers, Wayne ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu
Re: [Veritas-bu] Question for NetBackup 7.0 Dedup user ORData Domain users
We wouldn't be able to do our backup replication to DR without the de-dupe levels we get from DD. We are seeing 30x dedupe on nightly backups which are mostly Incr backups, and full backups for DBs and Exchange. If you are concerned about minimizing your data utilization for your site to site replication, DD is king. On 8/25/2010 7:25 AM, Lightner, Jeff wrote: > On the flip side because things like NetBackup do the work on the system > being backed up it increases CPU resource consumption. For us that > would be a killer. We've been using Data Domain for a couple of years > on UNIX/Linux/Windows and have been quite happy with the dedupe ratios > we get on everything including Oracle and MS-SQL databases. > Additionally restores from the dedupe devices as compared to tape are > incredibly fast. > > As others pointed out it does depend on what you're backing up. Dedupe > is great for environments where the preponderance of what you're backing > up isn't changing. Note that on the DD it is block level rather than > file level so this doesn't mean your database files can't change (as > they do every time they're update). I'm not sure how NBU's dedupe does > it (file or block). > > -Original Message- > From: veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu > [mailto:veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu] On Behalf Of stefanos > Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 4:02 AM > To: 'Travis Kelley'; judy_hinchcli...@administaff.com; > cal...@kforce.com; veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu > Subject: Re: [Veritas-bu] Question for NetBackup 7.0 Dedup user ORData > Domain users > > The big difference between DataDomain (and all appliances) and nebackup > deduplication option is that netbackup can do the process on the client. > This will speed up the time of the backup. > With DD and netbackup media server deduplication, nothing will change at > your backup time, as all your data will travel to the media server. > > Do not listen to the companies about the deduplication ratio. Your data > is > unique, and nobody can predict the ratio. > Ask for a demo from both companies. > > -Original Message- > From: veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu > [mailto:veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu] On Behalf Of Travis > Kelley > Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 12:38 AM > To: judy_hinchcli...@administaff.com; cal...@kforce.com; > veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu > Subject: Re: [Veritas-bu] Question for NetBackup 7.0 Dedup user OR Data > Domain users > > Data domain also has a limit to the amount of data one of their units > can track but its fairly high. If you need more than 32TB of deduped > data in PD you do need to deploy a seperate puredisk environment. Then > PD just splits the hash space into chunks and stores data on whichever > node it hases to. I'm not sure what their upper limit is but it can > scale quite high also. > > On 8/24/10, judy_hinchcli...@administaff.com > wrote: >> Remember that the built in de-dup as a limit on the amount of data it > can >> keep track of. >> Over that amount you need to use a de-dup appliance. >> >> >> From: veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu >> [mailto:veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu] On Behalf Of Alley, > Chris >> Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 4:09 PM >> To: veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu >> Subject: [Veritas-bu] Question for NetBackup 7.0 Dedup user OR Data > Domain >> users >> >> We are looking to change our backups to a disk based deduplication > solution, >> and 2 of our options are to utilize NetBackup 7.0's built in dedupe > (Client >> and Media server) or to put a Data Domain box in. I wanted to see if > I >> could get some real world feedback on what you guys have been seeing > in >> terms of dedupe rates, performance, etc. For example Data Domain > claims > we >> would only see about 5:1 dedupe rate using NetBackup, which seems > quite a >> bit lower than what I would expectand of course they claim they > would >> get about 20:1. I realize that all data is different, which is why I > have >> hopes that several people will reply with what they are seeing. > Thanks > for >> your time! >> > ___ > Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu > http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu > > ___ > Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu > http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu > > Proud partner. Susan G. Komen for the Cure. > >
Re: [Veritas-bu] Question for NetBackup 7.0 Dedup user ORData Domain users
On the flip side because things like NetBackup do the work on the system being backed up it increases CPU resource consumption. For us that would be a killer. We've been using Data Domain for a couple of years on UNIX/Linux/Windows and have been quite happy with the dedupe ratios we get on everything including Oracle and MS-SQL databases. Additionally restores from the dedupe devices as compared to tape are incredibly fast. As others pointed out it does depend on what you're backing up. Dedupe is great for environments where the preponderance of what you're backing up isn't changing. Note that on the DD it is block level rather than file level so this doesn't mean your database files can't change (as they do every time they're update). I'm not sure how NBU's dedupe does it (file or block). -Original Message- From: veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu [mailto:veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu] On Behalf Of stefanos Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 4:02 AM To: 'Travis Kelley'; judy_hinchcli...@administaff.com; cal...@kforce.com; veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu Subject: Re: [Veritas-bu] Question for NetBackup 7.0 Dedup user ORData Domain users The big difference between DataDomain (and all appliances) and nebackup deduplication option is that netbackup can do the process on the client. This will speed up the time of the backup. With DD and netbackup media server deduplication, nothing will change at your backup time, as all your data will travel to the media server. Do not listen to the companies about the deduplication ratio. Your data is unique, and nobody can predict the ratio. Ask for a demo from both companies. -Original Message- From: veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu [mailto:veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu] On Behalf Of Travis Kelley Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 12:38 AM To: judy_hinchcli...@administaff.com; cal...@kforce.com; veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu Subject: Re: [Veritas-bu] Question for NetBackup 7.0 Dedup user OR Data Domain users Data domain also has a limit to the amount of data one of their units can track but its fairly high. If you need more than 32TB of deduped data in PD you do need to deploy a seperate puredisk environment. Then PD just splits the hash space into chunks and stores data on whichever node it hases to. I'm not sure what their upper limit is but it can scale quite high also. On 8/24/10, judy_hinchcli...@administaff.com wrote: > Remember that the built in de-dup as a limit on the amount of data it can > keep track of. > Over that amount you need to use a de-dup appliance. > > > From: veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu > [mailto:veritas-bu-boun...@mailman.eng.auburn.edu] On Behalf Of Alley, Chris > Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 4:09 PM > To: veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu > Subject: [Veritas-bu] Question for NetBackup 7.0 Dedup user OR Data Domain > users > > We are looking to change our backups to a disk based deduplication solution, > and 2 of our options are to utilize NetBackup 7.0's built in dedupe (Client > and Media server) or to put a Data Domain box in. I wanted to see if I > could get some real world feedback on what you guys have been seeing in > terms of dedupe rates, performance, etc. For example Data Domain claims we > would only see about 5:1 dedupe rate using NetBackup, which seems quite a > bit lower than what I would expectand of course they claim they would > get about 20:1. I realize that all data is different, which is why I have > hopes that several people will reply with what they are seeing. Thanks for > your time! > ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu Proud partner. Susan G. Komen for the Cure. Please consider our environment before printing this e-mail or attachments. -- CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail may contain privileged or confidential information and is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this information is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please reply immediately to the sender that you have received the message in error, and delete it. Thank you. -- ___ Veritas-bu maillist - Veritas-bu@mailman.eng.auburn.edu http://mailman.eng.auburn.edu/mailman/listinfo/veritas-bu
