Re: [VFB] Wing Things 2.0 Tips
Good write up Don, I'm in the middle of a order for 2500 streamers, crazy but I decided to try one shop order. I use parchment paper and build all the wings first, the paper releases the glue and the wing stays together. Four dozen fit on a bakers half sheet with paper, I may have to get some straws and try the wing things. I do use a foam block with slits cut when selecting feathers, 4 matching to the slit and it holds over a dozen. Peggy On Sun, Mar 5, 2017 at 12:20 PM, DonO wrote: > Rene, > > I hope it’s a *good job* that keeps you on the go. Lots of . > > I don’t use the Wing Things to attach the wings to the hook, although I > actually could if needed. > > Easiest thing is to list the things I do with them, which will all be in > the Wing Things 2.0 extension of the article. And I’ll probably do a > You-tube video. I’ll try to list them in order. (I’ll be using this as the > outline for *Ver 2.0 Wing Things* on my website with lots more photos.) > > 1. *Group bulk feathers left and right**, (off of one cape) trimmed and > set to length, size, color, webbieness, etc. So if I want big presentation > streamers I group all the big feathers at the back of the cape, trim the > downy butt ends and insert as many will fit in the wing thing. I have > bigger straws to accommodate large groups of thick feathers. For smaller > fishing flies, I start in the middle of the cape. > > Depending on whether I’m tying a bunch or similar patterns for a swap or > designing individual flies, this grouping of large quantities of L/R > hackles is useful. Sometimes I use the tubes, and sometimes I have extras > stored in small plastic pockets, especially when I’m designing. (Photos in > WT 2.0) > > **2.* I have many necks that dried ‘weird’ and *don’t have equal rights > and lefts* (especially old Chinese capes). Also, the modern drying > techniques for bagging actually set a reverse curve (or even a twist) in > the feathers from the natural, so what you think is a left is actually a > right. The vendor hot dying & drying process re-sets the curves, so > another hot water bath will reset the curves the way you want them- > regardless of L/R bends, in a Wing Thing. So set an *equal number* of L/R > feathers in the Wing Thing (ignore curves & twists) and run it through hot > water and lay the whole group on a blotter with the shape you want to let > it dry. This will also expose non-color-fast dyes used, and you can see > from my blotter in the photos. When they dry you will have equal #s of > properly curved rights and lefts OR all straight if that’s what you need. > For presentation flies, I always use a slight graceful curve. The wing will > dry dense, still looking wet, but *combing it out with a small brush* > will restore the dry bulk of the wing. > > Note that this *so far is for a single bulk color*. Once the finished > multi-wing wing is built, or the fly is finished, another dredge through > the hot water helps to control unruly feathers, along with some other > techniques I’ll mention. Sometimes I’ll be able to wait until the fly is > finished before I dredge it. *Depends on how the feathers are > cooperating.* > > *3. For grouping/holding/controlling feathers while designing*. The > article explains this pretty well, for both wings and cheeks. But if the > feathers aren’t cooperating, there’s more you can do. > > *4.* Once I have my wing ‘dead to rights’, *I tie the tips together* with > about 6-10 tight wraps, *no knot or glue*, before inserting into the > WTs. This keeps the wing feathers from sliding back and forth as I insert > cheek groups or individual feathers. I do this cheek-matching many times > and the thread knot controls my wing layering. If I want to change the > layering, the thread slides right off and I can re-design the wing. > > *5.* Once I have the wing-set I want, or if I have a lot of wing feathers > that may try to rotate around as I tie the group down, *I’ll drop in some > head cement into the back end of the Wing Thing tube* and watch it > penetrate into the wing feather tips just a little, catching some barbs, > before setting it on a pin. Don’t worry if you over-do it a little, the > cheeks cover the glue area. *Once it dries, pull it out and trim the > front tips to a short wedge* so there’s no hump in the head when you tie > it down. Re-insert or tie down onto the hook.** If you are having a hard > time keeping the wing feathers stable while gluing, use a reverse tweezers > to grab the fly at the cheek area to flatten it out while drying. (will > have photos) > > **I like to tie the belly fibers before tying the wing- helps position the > wing better with a larger base. > > To Answer Rene’s question about using the wing things to attach the wing > to the hook, If you didn’t use glue, you could tie the loaded wing-ting > down real tight, pull off the wing thing, trim the butt ends, and finish > tying the head. Pre-gluing would alleviate this. > > (This is also a
Re: [VFB] Wing Things 2.0 Tips
Hi Don, It is indeed a very interesting and challenging project, but I cannot talk in public about it. However, as I'm just a regular employee, it neither increases nor decreases my pay-check. It just ensures that it is paid. Thanks for putting it all together, was a nice and recreational hour to read carefully through it. Your trick with the hot water is something I'd like to try, however this will be later. If you treat the finished fly with the hot water: What is your experience regarding the durability of the paint? Is there a risk that some of the dye will add color to additional feathers? Rene On 03/05/2017 06:20 PM, DonO wrote: Rene, I hope it’s a *good job* that keeps you on the go. Lots of . I don’t use the Wing Things to attach the wings to the hook, although I actually could if needed. Easiest thing is to list the things I do with them, which will all be in the Wing Things 2.0 extension of the article. And I’ll probably do a You-tube video. I’ll try to list them in order. (I’ll be using this as the outline for /Ver 2.0 Wing Things/ on my website with lots more photos.) 1. *Group bulk feathers left and right**, (off of one cape) trimmed and set to length, size, color, webbieness, etc. So if I want big presentation streamers I group all the big feathers at the back of the cape, trim the downy butt ends and insert as many will fit in the wing thing. I have bigger straws to accommodate large groups of thick feathers. For smaller fishing flies, I start in the middle of the cape. Depending on whether I’m tying a bunch or similar patterns for a swap or designing individual flies, this grouping of large quantities of L/R hackles is useful. Sometimes I use the tubes, and sometimes I have extras stored in small plastic pockets, especially when I’m designing. (Photos in WT 2.0) **2.* I have many necks that dried ‘weird’ and *don’t have equal rights and lefts* (especially old Chinese capes). Also, the modern drying techniques for bagging actually set a reverse curve (or even a twist) in the feathers from the natural, so what you think is a left is actually a right. The vendor hot dying & drying process re-sets the curves, so another hot water bath will reset the curves the way you want them- regardless of L/R bends, in a Wing Thing. So set an *equal number* of L/R feathers in the Wing Thing (ignore curves & twists) and run it through hot water and lay the whole group on a blotter with the shape you want to let it dry. This will also expose non-color-fast dyes used, and you can see from my blotter in the photos. When they dry you will have equal #s of properly curved rights and lefts OR all straight if that’s what you need. For presentation flies, I always use a slight graceful curve. The wing will dry dense, still looking wet, but *combing it out with a small brush* will restore the dry bulk of the wing. Note that this /so far is for a single bulk color/. Once the finished multi-wing wing is built, or the fly is finished, another dredge through the hot water helps to control unruly feathers, along with some other techniques I’ll mention. Sometimes I’ll be able to wait until the fly is finished before I dredge it. /Depends on how the feathers are cooperating./ *3. For grouping/holding/controlling feathers while designing*. The article explains this pretty well, for both wings and cheeks. But if the feathers aren’t cooperating, there’s more you can do. *4.* Once I have my wing ‘dead to rights’, *I tie the tips together* with about 6-10 tight wraps, /no knot or glue/, before inserting into the WTs. This keeps the wing feathers from sliding back and forth as I insert cheek groups or individual feathers. I do this cheek-matching many times and the thread knot controls my wing layering. If I want to change the layering, the thread slides right off and I can re-design the wing. *5.* Once I have the wing-set I want, or if I have a lot of wing feathers that may try to rotate around as I tie the group down, *I’ll drop in some head cement into the back end of the Wing Thing tube* and watch it penetrate into the wing feather tips just a little, catching some barbs, before setting it on a pin. Don’t worry if you over-do it a little, the cheeks cover the glue area. *Once it dries, pull it out and trim the front tips to a short wedge* so there’s no hump in the head when you tie it down. Re-insert or tie down onto the hook.** If you are having a hard time keeping the wing feathers stable while gluing, use a reverse tweezers to grab the fly at the cheek area to flatten it out while drying. (will have photos) **I like to tie the belly fibers before tying the wing- helps position the wing better with a larger base. To Answer Rene’s question about using the wing things to attach the wing to the hook, If you didn’t use glue, you could tie the loaded wing-ting down real tight, pull off the wing thing, trim the butt ends, and finish tyi
Re: [VFB] Wing Things 2.0 Tips, streamer tips
Rene, Glad for your ‘stability’ then. ;o) Good question on the dye color bleed, as you can see the feather colors on my blotters. Whiting’s feathers are color-fast, so I don’t worry about them. The old Chinese necks are not. Since it takes very hot water to SET dyes, I haven’t seen any cross-over from the Chinese to the Whiting hackles. Even if it did, the blend wouldn’t take away anything, since the layered colors are intended to blend for the final appeal. What does happen is that all shape outlines, curves, etc. are trained to match so that the contour of the fly is common and in the shape I want. So round-tip hackles match sharp-tipped hackles. Shorter layered hackles are more apt to stay where I want them. Barred underneath hackles show up better, as the ‘marry’ gets tighter. When I want a more dispersed outline for the artistic ‘paint-brushed look’, I brush out the wing with an old tooth-brush so that the feathers separate more, giving a ‘free-style’ effect. Again, this is for tying presentation flies – mine I’ll present in plastic foam-backed boxes. For commercial streamer-flies by the dozen, it would add to the professional presentation to have the hackle curves neatly match. And it’s pretty quick to do, and you can re-use the paper towel blotter. Makes a nice photo back-ground. Fishing a streamer is as much presentation as anything else. Hence the spey rod approach. Watch the streamer as it ‘swims’ past you. Now you’re seeing what the fish sees. Does the weight of the hook drop it down below the wing? Does it swim tilted? Is the head a lot larger than the wing, not fitting the contour? All of this can be addressed when tying the fly. On many I tie the two inside hackles with longer brighter hackles so there’s a ‘tail’ out the back, and it usually wiggles during the retrieve. One extra thing is weight. Streamers are hammered when bit so weight is not an issue with the fly itself. There’s no ‘feeling-out’ like with a heavily weighted nymph. Lead wrap at the front end of the shank helps the fly dive into the pools and deep runs. And I tie many of my fishing streamers as articulated tandems, using the braid over the connection leader to create the long body. I’ll also use circle hooks for the rear hook, and sometime cut off the front hook altogether. I’m hoping to have lots of how-to and tying tips on my web site as it develops. DonO From: Rene Zillmann Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2017 3:26 AM To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [VFB] Wing Things 2.0 Tips Hi Don, It is indeed a very interesting and challenging project, but I cannot talk in public about it. However, as I'm just a regular employee, it neither increases nor decreases my pay-check. It just ensures that it is paid. Thanks for putting it all together, was a nice and recreational hour to read carefully through it. Your trick with the hot water is something I'd like to try, however this will be later. If you treat the finished fly with the hot water: What is your experience regarding the durability of the paint? Is there a risk that some of the dye will add color to additional feathers? Rene On 03/05/2017 06:20 PM, DonO wrote: Rene, I hope it’s a good job that keeps you on the go. Lots of . I don’t use the Wing Things to attach the wings to the hook, although I actually could if needed. Easiest thing is to list the things I do with them, which will all be in the Wing Things 2.0 extension of the article. And I’ll probably do a You-tube video. I’ll try to list them in order. (I’ll be using this as the outline for Ver 2.0 Wing Things on my website with lots more photos.) 1. Group bulk feathers left and right*, (off of one cape) trimmed and set to length, size, color, webbieness, etc. So if I want big presentation streamers I group all the big feathers at the back of the cape, trim the downy butt ends and insert as many will fit in the wing thing. I have bigger straws to accommodate large groups of thick feathers. For smaller fishing flies, I start in the middle of the cape. Depending on whether I’m tying a bunch or similar patterns for a swap or designing individual flies, this grouping of large quantities of L/R hackles is useful. Sometimes I use the tubes, and sometimes I have extras stored in small plastic pockets, especially when I’m designing. (Photos in WT 2.0) *2. I have many necks that dried ‘weird’ and don’t have equal rights and lefts (especially old Chinese capes). Also, the modern drying techniques for bagging actually set a reverse curve (or even a twist) in the feathers from the natural, so what you think is a left is actually a right. The vendor hot dying & drying process re-sets the curves, so another hot water bath will reset the curves the way you want them- regardless of L/R bends, in a Wing Thing. So set an equal number of L/R feathers in the Wing Thing (ignore curves & t
