Re: [videoblogging] Re: we should all enter this one
Charles, are you implying normal people don't want to watch (let alone make) art or arty things? There's a lot of art and arty as well in the videoblogging world and among those in this group. The phrasing of your question is pretty insulting. Brook On 2/19/08, Charles Iliya Krempeaux [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What type of works are they looking for? Only artsy type stuff? Or are they accepting the type of things that normal people would watch. See ya -- Charles Iliya Krempeaux, B.Sc. http://ChangeLog.ca/ ___ Brook Hinton film/video/audio art www.brookhinton.com studio vlog/blog: www.brookhinton.com/temporalab
Re: [videoblogging] Re: we should all enter this one
Whoops just saw your followup. Gosh golly, you're right, I guess I don't have any layman or common people in my audience. Only royalty and criminals/ Sheesh. Brook ___ Brook Hinton film/video/audio art www.brookhinton.com studio vlog/blog: www.brookhinton.com/temporalab
[videoblogging] Re: we should all enter this one
There are a ton of festivals going around some cater to mainstream, some don't, I thought that was what Charles was talking aboutI mean there is arty stuff out there, that people don't get, heck there is mainstream stuff, I don't get Heath http://heathparks.com http://batmangeek.com --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Brook Hinton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Whoops just saw your followup. Gosh golly, you're right, I guess I don't have any layman or common people in my audience. Only royalty and criminals/ Sheesh. Brook ___ Brook Hinton film/video/audio art www.brookhinton.com studio vlog/blog: www.brookhinton.com/temporalab
Re: [videoblogging] Re: we should all enter this one
I'm sorry you were insulted by what I said. I didn't mean to insult. The way it looks like to me is that whatever you want to call them... the vast majority of the people I know seem to have certain tastes in videos. I was trying to use a monicker that described them. I thought putting normal in quotes would be sufficient, and people would know what I meant. Maybe I should have used something like... the common blue collar person. I thought normal would be a good monicker since you often hear terms like the real people used in political discourse to describe the same group. (Please note the quotes around the real people... and that I'm not the one who came up the phrase the real people.) Again, sorry if I insulted you. -- Charles Iliya Krempeaux, B.Sc. http://ChangeLog.ca/ Motorsport Videos http://TireBiterZ.com/ Vlog Razor... Vlogging News... http://vlograzor.com/ On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 8:08 AM, Brook Hinton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Whoops just saw your followup. Gosh golly, you're right, I guess I don't have any layman or common people in my audience. Only royalty and criminals/ Sheesh. Brook ___ Brook Hinton film/video/audio art www.brookhinton.com studio vlog/blog: www.brookhinton.com/temporalab
[videoblogging] Re: we should all enter this one
Yes. Of course. the common blue collar person has no appreciation for art or arty things. How about you just stop with the labels. Your hole is already deep enough. --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Charles Iliya Krempeaux [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm sorry you were insulted by what I said. I didn't mean to insult. The way it looks like to me is that whatever you want to call them... the vast majority of the people I know seem to have certain tastes in videos. I was trying to use a monicker that described them. I thought putting normal in quotes would be sufficient, and people would know what I meant. Maybe I should have used something like... the common blue collar person. I thought normal would be a good monicker since you often hear terms like the real people used in political discourse to describe the same group. (Please note the quotes around the real people... and that I'm not the one who came up the phrase the real people.) Again, sorry if I insulted you. -- Charles Iliya Krempeaux, B.Sc. http://ChangeLog.ca/ Motorsport Videos http://TireBiterZ.com/ Vlog Razor... Vlogging News... http://vlograzor.com/ On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 8:08 AM, Brook Hinton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Whoops just saw your followup. Gosh golly, you're right, I guess I don't have any layman or common people in my audience. Only royalty and criminals/ Sheesh. Brook ___ Brook Hinton film/video/audio art www.brookhinton.com studio vlog/blog: www.brookhinton.com/temporalab
[videoblogging] Re: we should all enter this one
I'm stunned at the responses I've seen here. Here's something to think about. When Alan J. Lerner was working on some new lyrics for Camelot, he was struggling with one line - for a week. Jack Warner wondered what was going on, so he stopped in to see what the hold up was with his movie. Alan explained what was happening, and Jack Warner responded, Alan, stop trying so hard to different - being good is different enough I stand by Charles. Milt Lee
[videoblogging] Re: we should all enter this one
Huh. I got what you meant. Didn't find it insulting. But now I'm curious - there has to be a more precise way to say it. Heath used the term mainstream, which seems closer and doesn't add a word implying social status (like blue collar does). How about people who only drink the pop-culture kool-aid? No, too weird, like me... Off to seek advice from the next wordsmith I see. Cheryl --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Charles Iliya Krempeaux [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm sorry you were insulted by what I said. I didn't mean to insult. The way it looks like to me is that whatever you want to call them... the vast majority of the people I know seem to have certain tastes in videos. I was trying to use a monicker that described them. I thought putting normal in quotes would be sufficient, and people would know what I meant. Maybe I should have used something like... the common blue collar person. I thought normal would be a good monicker since you often hear terms like the real people used in political discourse to describe the same group. (Please note the quotes around the real people... and that I'm not the one who came up the phrase the real people.) Again, sorry if I insulted you. -- Charles Iliya Krempeaux, B.Sc. http://ChangeLog.ca/ Motorsport Videos http://TireBiterZ.com/ Vlog Razor... Vlogging News... http://vlograzor.com/ On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 8:08 AM, Brook Hinton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Whoops just saw your followup. Gosh golly, you're right, I guess I don't have any layman or common people in my audience. Only royalty and criminals/ Sheesh. Brook ___ Brook Hinton film/video/audio art www.brookhinton.com studio vlog/blog: www.brookhinton.com/temporalab
Re: [videoblogging] Re: we should all enter this one
To David Howell's objection: I think what David is saying is that using normal or real or some class-based term as the alternative to artsy tends to imply that artsy therefore has some odd, fake, or obscure measure of worth. (correct me if I'm wrong and putting words in your mouth, David.) However, I agree with Cheryl ... I don't see what Charles said as all that bad ... I like artsy stuff and I wasn't insulted. There is a reason the term artsy has common use (and it DOES have common use). In terms of film/video, I have believed that the term artsy is used because it's generally describing a subset of stuff out there that is often outside of mainstream consumption/expectation ... perhaps normal is a poor term to use for mainstream but cut him some slack ... he did quote it - which has the generally accepted implication of for my lack of a better word - and he has since apologized for not having a better word for it. It's the nature of the human brain to classify and categorize and label ... Charles didn't create the distinction of mainstream or artsy ... and he's hardly the first to recognize it. All that being said ... I'd love to see some vlogger win this contest no matter their style! :-) - Dave On Feb 20, 2008 2:40 PM, Cheryl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Huh. I got what you meant. Didn't find it insulting. But now I'm curious - there has to be a more precise way to say it. Heath used the term mainstream, which seems closer and doesn't add a word implying social status (like blue collar does). How about people who only drink the pop-culture kool-aid? No, too weird, like me... Off to seek advice from the next wordsmith I see. Cheryl --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Charles Iliya Krempeaux [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm sorry you were insulted by what I said. I didn't mean to insult. The way it looks like to me is that whatever you want to call them... the vast majority of the people I know seem to have certain tastes in videos. I was trying to use a monicker that described them. I thought putting normal in quotes would be sufficient, and people would know what I meant. Maybe I should have used something like... the common blue collar person. I thought normal would be a good monicker since you often hear terms like the real people used in political discourse to describe the same group. (Please note the quotes around the real people... and that I'm not the one who came up the phrase the real people.) Again, sorry if I insulted you. -- Charles Iliya Krempeaux, B.Sc. http://ChangeLog.ca/ Motorsport Videos http://TireBiterZ.com/ Vlog Razor... Vlogging News... http://vlograzor.com/ On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 8:08 AM, Brook Hinton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Whoops just saw your followup. Gosh golly, you're right, I guess I don't have any layman or common people in my audience. Only royalty and criminals/ Sheesh. Brook ___ Brook Hinton film/video/audio art www.brookhinton.com studio vlog/blog: www.brookhinton.com/temporalab Yahoo! Groups Links -- http://www.DavidMeade.com
[videoblogging] Re: we should all enter this one
Its always hard to talk in terms of generalisations and labels. Its understandable that people resent it sometimes, but sometimes generalisations and stereotypes have some truth to them, they just dont apply to people quite as broadly as solid words suggest. I mean there are a lot of 'scenes' that have their own culture, vocabulary, and feel like they are mostly made of a certain group of people, even if this is only a superficial impresion, it still means something if thats what lots of people see. I think there a lot of people who can appreciate art and culture and creativity of many sorts, but do not necessarily have the formal training/education to join in with the 'experts' or others who represent and talk about the scene publicly. But at the same time I have talked about how the BBC during the early decades of TV, had a paternatistic instinct, trying to bring 'high culture' to the 'great unwashed', and how by 'dumbing down' and offering more light entertainment, the first commercial rival was able to better satisfy the needs of the masses. And in this group we sometimes see people from different spheres of life, have awkward moments when their worlds collide. The business, entertainment, techie, academic, political, creative, arts and other angles of approach to the human condition, have all been represented here, sometimes for mutual benefit and understanding, and other times we may as well have been talking in completely different languages. From snobbishness about 'worthless crap' on youtube to labes that paint the masses as philistines, it is a minefield for sure, still better to talk about it and risk slipping and annoying someone, than be silent for fear of erring. Cheers Steve Elbows --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Cheryl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Huh. I got what you meant. Didn't find it insulting. But now I'm curious - there has to be a more precise way to say it. Heath used the term mainstream, which seems closer and doesn't add a word implying social status (like blue collar does). How about people who only drink the pop-culture kool-aid? No, too weird, like me... Off to seek advice from the next wordsmith I see. Cheryl --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Charles Iliya Krempeaux supercanadian@ wrote: I'm sorry you were insulted by what I said. I didn't mean to insult. The way it looks like to me is that whatever you want to call them... the vast majority of the people I know seem to have certain tastes in videos. I was trying to use a monicker that described them. I thought putting normal in quotes would be sufficient, and people would know what I meant. Maybe I should have used something like... the common blue collar person. I thought normal would be a good monicker since you often hear terms like the real people used in political discourse to describe the same group. (Please note the quotes around the real people... and that I'm not the one who came up the phrase the real people.) Again, sorry if I insulted you. -- Charles Iliya Krempeaux, B.Sc. http://ChangeLog.ca/ Motorsport Videos http://TireBiterZ.com/ Vlog Razor... Vlogging News... http://vlograzor.com/ On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 8:08 AM, Brook Hinton bhinton@ wrote: Whoops just saw your followup. Gosh golly, you're right, I guess I don't have any layman or common people in my audience. Only royalty and criminals/ Sheesh. Brook ___ Brook Hinton film/video/audio art www.brookhinton.com studio vlog/blog: www.brookhinton.com/temporalab
[videoblogging] Re: we should all enter this one
Yeah. This comes up all the time in my house: the relationship/lack of relationship between class and artsy as a label. Oh, yes. So familiar. This is the conversation that comes up when my artsy fiancee gives me (reasonably good-natured) grief about not understanding whatever artsy static he bought from Aquarius Records that he likes to pretend is music, or an artsy painting painting I don't get or a sculpture I just plain don't like. Suddenly, in his eyes I'm put in the category of The Masses (that's the term I use instead of mainstream or normal, by the way). The Masses watch movies that star The Rock. They listen to Z100. They shop at Wal-Mart and buy all their clean CDs there, too. They subscribe to Us magazine. Now, I don't actually do any of these things, not that there's anything really wrong with them (except for movies with The Rock. That's truly unforgivable.). But I get pissy about it. I'm being categorized and i don't like it. So I do it right back, and call him a snob. Why? Because he's a snob. An artsy snob. Artsy people watch 2001: A Space Odyssey over and over and over and when you ask questions about what the hell is going on, they roll their eyes. They really dig Duchamp. The only good music is music that absolutely no one else is listening too. I could go on. But why does my fiancee the Sensitive Artist hate the artsy label? Because he is, in fact a blue collar and normal person who got in many a nose-breaking fight in South Boston as a youth for being so artsy. Fair enough. There's a lot of crossover between artsy and The Masses. Mr. Artsy recently rented Night at the Museum and no, I'll never, ever, EVER let him live it down. I think he's even claimed he thought it was a documentary. As humans (and more specifically, I think American humans have a worse time of it) our brains jump to labels. We label, we classify, we file, we pigeonhole. Makes things easier, and frequently it's just wrong. But it's better to try and make a go of it with air quotes, than not. Carry on, Bekah -- http://www.missbhavens.com --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, David Meade [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To David Howell's objection: I think what David is saying is that using normal or real or some class-based term as the alternative to artsy tends to imply that artsy therefore has some odd, fake, or obscure measure of worth. (correct me if I'm wrong and putting words in your mouth, David.) However, I agree with Cheryl ... I don't see what Charles said as all that bad ... I like artsy stuff and I wasn't insulted. There is a reason the term artsy has common use (and it DOES have common use). In terms of film/video, I have believed that the term artsy is used because it's generally describing a subset of stuff out there that is often outside of mainstream consumption/expectation ... perhaps normal is a poor term to use for mainstream but cut him some slack ... he did quote it - which has the generally accepted implication of for my lack of a better word - and he has since apologized for not having a better word for it. It's the nature of the human brain to classify and categorize and label ... Charles didn't create the distinction of mainstream or artsy ... and he's hardly the first to recognize it. All that being said ... I'd love to see some vlogger win this contest no matter their style! :-) - Dave On Feb 20, 2008 2:40 PM, Cheryl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Huh. I got what you meant. Didn't find it insulting. But now I'm curious - there has to be a more precise way to say it. Heath used the term mainstream, which seems closer and doesn't add a word implying social status (like blue collar does). How about people who only drink the pop-culture kool-aid? No, too weird, like me... Off to seek advice from the next wordsmith I see. Cheryl --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Charles Iliya Krempeaux supercanadian@ wrote: I'm sorry you were insulted by what I said. I didn't mean to insult. The way it looks like to me is that whatever you want to call them... the vast majority of the people I know seem to have certain tastes in videos. I was trying to use a monicker that described them. I thought putting normal in quotes would be sufficient, and people would know what I meant. Maybe I should have used something like... the common blue collar person. I thought normal would be a good monicker since you often hear terms like the real people used in political discourse to describe the same group. (Please note the quotes around the real people... and that I'm not the one who came up the phrase the real people.) Again, sorry if I insulted you. -- Charles Iliya Krempeaux, B.Sc. http://ChangeLog.ca/ Motorsport Videos http://TireBiterZ.com/ Vlog Razor... Vlogging News... http://vlograzor.com/ On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 8:08 AM, Brook Hinton bhinton@
[videoblogging] Re: we should all enter this one
Artsy people watch 2001: A Space Odyssey over and over and over and when you ask questions about what the hell is going on, they roll their eyes. I could watch 2001 over and over and over again, but I'd seriously have to take the scissors to that interminably long psychedelic fly-over of Jupiter (or wherever the hell it was supposed to be). The rest of the movie - even the inscrutable stuff - is great fun. :) Chris
Re: [videoblogging] Re: we should all enter this one
What the fuck?? An interminably long psychedelic fly-over of Jupiter?!? *rolls eyes* Fuck you Chris. On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 4:38 PM, Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Artsy people watch 2001: A Space Odyssey over and over and over and when you ask questions about what the hell is going on, they roll their eyes. I could watch 2001 over and over and over again, but I'd seriously have to take the scissors to that interminably long psychedelic fly-over of Jupiter (or wherever the hell it was supposed to be). The rest of the movie - even the inscrutable stuff - is great fun. :) Chris
[videoblogging] Re: we should all enter this one
Sorry... I can only take so many rolling shots of solarized terrain before going, Okay, I'm not getting anything new here. :) Chris --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Delongchamp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What the fuck?? An interminably long psychedelic fly-over of Jupiter?!? *rolls eyes* Fuck you Chris.
[videoblogging] Re: we should all enter this one
Tell me who your friends are and I'll tell you who you are :) Renat --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, David Howell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes. Of course. the common blue collar person has no appreciation for art or arty things. How about you just stop with the labels. Your hole is already deep enough. --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Charles Iliya Krempeaux supercanadian@ wrote: I'm sorry you were insulted by what I said. I didn't mean to insult. The way it looks like to me is that whatever you want to call them... the vast majority of the people I know seem to have certain tastes in videos. I was trying to use a monicker that described them. I thought putting normal in quotes would be sufficient, and people would know what I meant. Maybe I should have used something like... the common blue collar person. I thought normal would be a good monicker since you often hear terms like the real people used in political discourse to describe the same group. (Please note the quotes around the real people... and that I'm not the one who came up the phrase the real people.) Again, sorry if I insulted you. -- Charles Iliya Krempeaux, B.Sc. http://ChangeLog.ca/ Motorsport Videos http://TireBiterZ.com/ Vlog Razor... Vlogging News... http://vlograzor.com/ On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 8:08 AM, Brook Hinton bhinton@ wrote: Whoops just saw your followup. Gosh golly, you're right, I guess I don't have any layman or common people in my audience. Only royalty and criminals/ Sheesh. Brook ___ Brook Hinton film/video/audio art www.brookhinton.com studio vlog/blog: www.brookhinton.com/temporalab
[videoblogging] Re: we should all enter this one
--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Renat Zarbailov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Your hole is already deep enough. That phrase should only ever be uttered to the accompaniment of bad 1970's porn music. ;) Chris
Re: [videoblogging] Re: we should all enter this one
On Feb 20, 2008, at 5:42 PM, Chris wrote: --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Renat Zarbailov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Your hole is already deep enough. That phrase should only ever be uttered to the accompaniment of bad 1970's porn music. ;) Wakka Chikka Wakka Chikka: Porn Music For The Masses Volume 1 http://www.archive.org/details/csr049 good stuff via cheryl colan [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[videoblogging] Re: we should all enter this one
What the fuck?? Normal!?!? You have got to be kidding me. Fuck you Charles. --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Charles Iliya Krempeaux [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What type of works are they looking for? Only artsy type stuff? Or are they accepting the type of things that normal people would watch. See ya -- Charles Iliya Krempeaux, B.Sc. http://ChangeLog.ca/ Motorsport Videos http://TireBiterZ.com/ Vlog Razor... Vlogging News... http://vlograzor.com/ On Feb 19, 2008 4:28 PM, Irina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ALICE'S 3-MINUTE INDEPENDENT FILM FESTIVAL Alice's 3-Minute Independent Film Festival announces its CALL FOR ENTRIES Deadline for submissions is March 24, 2008 5PM. Entry is FREE The 3-Minute Film Festival and Awards ceremony will be held April 11th at Bimbo's 365 Club, San Francisco. With $16,000 in cash and prizes, radio exposure and more, Alice's film festival offers filmmakers a unique opportunity to showcase their short cinematic masterpieces in front of a live audience. This year, Alice's 3-Minutes film festival is honored to have judges from Pixar Animation Studios, Dreamworks, Lucasfilm, and the SF Film Society. Accepting 25 minute films in four categories: Drama/Documentary, Comedy, Animation and Original Music Video. Submission must be sent in DVD format to Alice Radio 865 Battery Street, San Francisco, CA 94111. Official entry forms and film festival details at www.radioalice.com. -- http://geekentertainment.tv [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [videoblogging] Re: we should all enter this one
Calm down that's why I put normal in quotes. I don't know a better word to use. Would you prefer layman? Basically the common person. -- Charles Iliya Krempeaux, B.Sc. http://ChangeLog.ca/ Motorsport Videos http://TireBiterZ.com/ Vlog Razor... Vlogging News... http://vlograzor.com/ On Feb 19, 2008 5:58 PM, David Howell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What the fuck?? Normal!?!? You have got to be kidding me. Fuck you Charles. --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Charles Iliya Krempeaux [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What type of works are they looking for? Only artsy type stuff? Or are they accepting the type of things that normal people would watch. See ya -- Charles Iliya Krempeaux, B.Sc. http://ChangeLog.ca/ Motorsport Videos http://TireBiterZ.com/ Vlog Razor... Vlogging News... http://vlograzor.com/ On Feb 19, 2008 4:28 PM, Irina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ALICE'S 3-MINUTE INDEPENDENT FILM FESTIVAL Alice's 3-Minute Independent Film Festival announces its CALL FOR ENTRIES Deadline for submissions is March 24, 2008 5PM. Entry is FREE The 3-Minute Film Festival and Awards ceremony will be held April 11th at Bimbo's 365 Club, San Francisco. With $16,000 in cash and prizes, radio exposure and more, Alice's film festival offers filmmakers a unique opportunity to showcase their short cinematic masterpieces in front of a live audience. This year, Alice's 3-Minutes film festival is honored to have judges from Pixar Animation Studios, Dreamworks, Lucasfilm, and the SF Film Society. Accepting 2–5 minute films in four categories: Drama/Documentary, Comedy, Animation and Original Music Video. Submission must be sent in DVD format to Alice Radio 865 Battery Street, San Francisco, CA 94111. Official entry forms and film festival details at www.radioalice.com. -- http://geekentertainment.tv Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[videoblogging] Re: we should all enter this one
Sounds like an excellent motto to ME! :D --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Irina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i think its ANYTHING GOES :) On 2/19/08, Charles Iliya Krempeaux [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What type of works are they looking for? Only artsy type stuff? Or are they accepting the type of things that normal people would watch. See ya -- Charles Iliya Krempeaux, B.Sc. http://ChangeLog.ca/ Motorsport Videos http://TireBiterZ.com/ Vlog Razor... Vlogging News... http://vlograzor.com/ On Feb 19, 2008 4:28 PM, Irina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ALICE'S 3-MINUTE INDEPENDENT FILM FESTIVAL Alice's 3-Minute Independent Film Festival announces its CALL FOR ENTRIES Deadline for submissions is March 24, 2008 5PM. Entry is FREE The 3-Minute Film Festival and Awards ceremony will be held April 11th at Bimbo's 365 Club, San Francisco. With $16,000 in cash and prizes, radio exposure and more, Alice's film festival offers filmmakers a unique opportunity to showcase their short cinematic masterpieces in front of a live audience. This year, Alice's 3-Minutes film festival is honored to have judges from Pixar Animation Studios, Dreamworks, Lucasfilm, and the SF Film Society. Accepting 25 minute films in four categories: Drama/Documentary, Comedy, Animation and Original Music Video. Submission must be sent in DVD format to Alice Radio 865 Battery Street, San Francisco, CA 94111. Official entry forms and film festival details at www.radioalice.com. -- http://geekentertainment.tv [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links -- http://geekentertainment.tv [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
