Re: [videoblogging] The Vloggies (was Re: irina gone)
yes. On 7/26/07, JADonnelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nice to see we are all just getting along. jad madpod.com dummycast.com --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com, Richard Bluestein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I''m sorry that you're sorry that Jeffrey feels that way. Richard --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com, John Furrier john@ wrote: Thanks Jeffrey. I'm sorry that you feel that way. We stand up for video producers and people investing in the space. It can get commercial and I understand the perceptions there. As the net accepts more and more independent producers new talent will emerge. That is my opinion and I'm behind that. PodTech is far from old media and in fact we'll experiment and innovate as much as we can to push the envelope on ideas and creativity. I know others feel the same way - create content, innovate, and push the envelope on new ideas. From: videoblogging@yahoogroups.com videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:videoblogging@yahoogroups.com videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Taylor Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 8:57 AM To: videoblogging@yahoogroups.com videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [videoblogging] The Vloggies (was Re: irina gone) The whole Podtech Affair (Irina, Lan, Vloggies, the public defenses from Scoble and Furrier) reeks of traditional (old) media, old business. Instead of standing up for something or for other people, we are left with nothing but a diluted, tasteless word salad. On 24/07/07, J. Rhett Aultman wlight@mailto:wlight%40weatherlight.com wrote: I strongly agree with this. I realize it's business as usual for more traditional media businesses to use award shows as a way to scratch the backs of their VIPs and biggest stakeholders, but I find something like that entirely disingenuous in the case of PodTech and the Vloggies. Not only that, but it's bad business sense in a market where the largest stakeholders are ill defined and change every few months. -- Rhett. http://www.weatherlight.com/freetime http://www.weatherlight.com/greentime John, this is why you have to talk about this here and not on the phone with someone. If you want to engage this community then engage us. You can't have private, offline conversations about things like this. For everyone else, if you don't like the way PodTech is handling things then DON'T LET THEM HANDLE IT. Don't participate in their awards show and don't accept any awards. If nobody recognizes The Vloggies then it doesn't matter who owns the trademark. If you still want awards then someone will have to organize the community to do it. - Verdi On 7/24/07, Kent Nichols digitalfilmmaker@mailto:digitalfilmmaker%40gmail.com digitalfilmmaker%40gmail.com wrote: Off-list? If you want to engage my professional services, contact my agents. Barrett Garese at UTA. If you want to talk about the Vloggies, let's talk about the Vloggies here in public. I support an open awards show that is owned by no company. I think that Trademarking Vloggies gives your company too much control. The Oscars are owned by the film industry, and the Emmys are owned by the TV industry. There were several sponsors last year, don't they also have as much right to the mark of the Vloggies as PodTech? Oh but you have more rights don't you? Because the person that came up with the idea, the person that organized it and made it a success was on your dime... The person that was just let go, right after the Trademark was filed... By landgrabbing Vloggies, you are trying to own an industry, which is unconscionable. You guys are smart, you're just caught in a lot of bad decisions. You should donate that mark to the Creative Commons, or EFF, or create a new non-profit that will run the awards. That would be the right thing to do, and might start repairing the PR nightmare you guys are experiencing right now. -Kent, askaninja.com --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com videoblogging%40yahoogroups.commailto: videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com, John Furrier john@ wrote: Kent, Email me if you'd like to get involved and we can chat off list John -- http://michaelverdi.com http://spinxpress.com http://freevlog.org Author of Secrets Of Videoblogging - http://tinyurl.com/me4vs Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non
[videoblogging] The Vloggies (was Re: irina gone)
I''m sorry that you're sorry that Jeffrey feels that way. Richard --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, John Furrier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks Jeffrey. I'm sorry that you feel that way. We stand up for video producers and people investing in the space. It can get commercial and I understand the perceptions there. As the net accepts more and more independent producers new talent will emerge. That is my opinion and I'm behind that. PodTech is far from old media and in fact we'll experiment and innovate as much as we can to push the envelope on ideas and creativity. I know others feel the same way - create content, innovate, and push the envelope on new ideas. From: videoblogging@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Taylor Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 8:57 AM To: videoblogging@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [videoblogging] The Vloggies (was Re: irina gone) The whole Podtech Affair (Irina, Lan, Vloggies, the public defenses from Scoble and Furrier) reeks of traditional (old) media, old business. Instead of standing up for something or for other people, we are left with nothing but a diluted, tasteless word salad. On 24/07/07, J. Rhett Aultman [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:wlight%40weatherlight.com wrote: I strongly agree with this. I realize it's business as usual for more traditional media businesses to use award shows as a way to scratch the backs of their VIPs and biggest stakeholders, but I find something like that entirely disingenuous in the case of PodTech and the Vloggies. Not only that, but it's bad business sense in a market where the largest stakeholders are ill defined and change every few months. -- Rhett. http://www.weatherlight.com/freetime http://www.weatherlight.com/greentime John, this is why you have to talk about this here and not on the phone with someone. If you want to engage this community then engage us. You can't have private, offline conversations about things like this. For everyone else, if you don't like the way PodTech is handling things then DON'T LET THEM HANDLE IT. Don't participate in their awards show and don't accept any awards. If nobody recognizes The Vloggies then it doesn't matter who owns the trademark. If you still want awards then someone will have to organize the community to do it. - Verdi On 7/24/07, Kent Nichols [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:digitalfilmmaker%40gmail.comdigitalfilmmaker%40gmail.com wrote: Off-list? If you want to engage my professional services, contact my agents. Barrett Garese at UTA. If you want to talk about the Vloggies, let's talk about the Vloggies here in public. I support an open awards show that is owned by no company. I think that Trademarking Vloggies gives your company too much control. The Oscars are owned by the film industry, and the Emmys are owned by the TV industry. There were several sponsors last year, don't they also have as much right to the mark of the Vloggies as PodTech? Oh but you have more rights don't you? Because the person that came up with the idea, the person that organized it and made it a success was on your dime... The person that was just let go, right after the Trademark was filed... By landgrabbing Vloggies, you are trying to own an industry, which is unconscionable. You guys are smart, you're just caught in a lot of bad decisions. You should donate that mark to the Creative Commons, or EFF, or create a new non-profit that will run the awards. That would be the right thing to do, and might start repairing the PR nightmare you guys are experiencing right now. -Kent, askaninja.com --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.commailto:videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com, John Furrier john@ wrote: Kent, Email me if you'd like to get involved and we can chat off list John -- http://michaelverdi.com http://spinxpress.com http://freevlog.org Author of Secrets Of Videoblogging - http://tinyurl.com/me4vs Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[videoblogging] The Vloggies (was Re: irina gone)
Jeffrey, you couldn´t be more accurate on your comparison, no mather how different Podtech and Blip are. Podtech people, think about this: if anyone on this list had a similar job offer (or whatever offer ) from both companies, who do you think we would trust more? And maybe I´m just dumb, but whats with this we can´t discuss it publicly, but will talk about it in private or to someone that whants to report about it? Whats this about, PR in China? Schlomo, your heart is in the right place. Miguel. Wow. Valerie was rather..erm...brazen. I'd have needed a shower after reading such self-serving tripe. When will people get that forcing outcomes like this just. doesn't. work in the long-term? Perhaps PodTech might want to get consulting from the consistently forthright, diplomatic and direct (warts and all) Blip.tv, who has my neverending respect. They've had to deal with tough decisions, technical warts and all sorts of snafus and I have yet to see them surmount a challenge with any degree of nastiness, contrived sentiment or lack of grace. As an ad/PR person, I can tell you that they've generated PR that companies pay tens of millions to agencies for by just being organic, respectful and honest. They make it look very easy, and perhaps that's because common sense and respect IS easy. Thanks to Michael and all ye who put up with such nonsense hoping it will pay dividends for vloggers. On 24/07/07, Michael Verdi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Personally, I don't like the idea of an awards show at all. Last year I tried to argue that point but it was clear that so many people... . - Verdi
[videoblogging] The Vloggies (was Re: irina gone)
Nice to see we are all just getting along. jad madpod.com dummycast.com --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Richard Bluestein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I''m sorry that you're sorry that Jeffrey feels that way. Richard --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, John Furrier john@ wrote: Thanks Jeffrey. I'm sorry that you feel that way. We stand up for video producers and people investing in the space. It can get commercial and I understand the perceptions there. As the net accepts more and more independent producers new talent will emerge. That is my opinion and I'm behind that. PodTech is far from old media and in fact we'll experiment and innovate as much as we can to push the envelope on ideas and creativity. I know others feel the same way - create content, innovate, and push the envelope on new ideas. From: videoblogging@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Taylor Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 8:57 AM To: videoblogging@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [videoblogging] The Vloggies (was Re: irina gone) The whole Podtech Affair (Irina, Lan, Vloggies, the public defenses from Scoble and Furrier) reeks of traditional (old) media, old business. Instead of standing up for something or for other people, we are left with nothing but a diluted, tasteless word salad. On 24/07/07, J. Rhett Aultman wlight@mailto:wlight%40weatherlight.com wrote: I strongly agree with this. I realize it's business as usual for more traditional media businesses to use award shows as a way to scratch the backs of their VIPs and biggest stakeholders, but I find something like that entirely disingenuous in the case of PodTech and the Vloggies. Not only that, but it's bad business sense in a market where the largest stakeholders are ill defined and change every few months. -- Rhett. http://www.weatherlight.com/freetime http://www.weatherlight.com/greentime John, this is why you have to talk about this here and not on the phone with someone. If you want to engage this community then engage us. You can't have private, offline conversations about things like this. For everyone else, if you don't like the way PodTech is handling things then DON'T LET THEM HANDLE IT. Don't participate in their awards show and don't accept any awards. If nobody recognizes The Vloggies then it doesn't matter who owns the trademark. If you still want awards then someone will have to organize the community to do it. - Verdi On 7/24/07, Kent Nichols digitalfilmmaker@mailto:digitalfilmmaker%40gmail.comdigitalfilmmaker%40gmail.com wrote: Off-list? If you want to engage my professional services, contact my agents. Barrett Garese at UTA. If you want to talk about the Vloggies, let's talk about the Vloggies here in public. I support an open awards show that is owned by no company. I think that Trademarking Vloggies gives your company too much control. The Oscars are owned by the film industry, and the Emmys are owned by the TV industry. There were several sponsors last year, don't they also have as much right to the mark of the Vloggies as PodTech? Oh but you have more rights don't you? Because the person that came up with the idea, the person that organized it and made it a success was on your dime... The person that was just let go, right after the Trademark was filed... By landgrabbing Vloggies, you are trying to own an industry, which is unconscionable. You guys are smart, you're just caught in a lot of bad decisions. You should donate that mark to the Creative Commons, or EFF, or create a new non-profit that will run the awards. That would be the right thing to do, and might start repairing the PR nightmare you guys are experiencing right now. -Kent, askaninja.com --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.commailto:videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com, John Furrier john@ wrote: Kent, Email me if you'd like to get involved and we can chat off list John -- http://michaelverdi.com http://spinxpress.com http://freevlog.org Author of Secrets Of Videoblogging - http://tinyurl.com/me4vs Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[videoblogging] The Vloggies (was Re: irina gone)
Personally, I don't like the idea of an awards show at all. Last year I tried to argue that point but it was clear that so many people wanted one and that PodTech was determined to put one on that I tried to help make it good by offering suggestions and by being a judge. The main factor that had it be successful (though I guess PodTech lost money on it) was Irina. She was really the keeper of the Vloggies soul. Had it been left up to others at PodTech, we would have seen something much different. Here's a quote by PodTech's Valerie Cunningham (emphasis is her's) from the vloggies wiki back in August last year - http://vloggies.pbwiki.com/FrontPage.2006-08-21-17-50-17 : VALERIE: [snip] - To be clear: there are two awards per category: Favorite category name and Community Choice Award We are giving OUR chosen favorite an award, and then announcing the community's choice. [snip] - We need to think of the categories in line with PodTech's affiliate content roadmap, ie Tech, News, Entertainment, Politics, Lifestyle – pretty much in that order. Also, we need to think global. PodTech India is in the content roadmap. Obviously it's pretty broad. WE SHOULD KNOW WHO OUR FAVORITE CATEGORY WINNERS ARE – RIGHT NOW. Simple – who are our target affiliate/sister videoblog sites? Top 50 – across all the categories. [snip] - So let's refine these categories please with above in mind and I'd like to see the top 50 list or whatever – we should know who we want to come to this event, who PodTech's VIPs are in this community, so to speak – again in line with our affiliate goals, etc. Can we see that list by Wed this week, Irina? This is the direction things were headed before we started talking about it here. With Irina no longer at PodTech is this how things will go this time? John, this is why you have to talk about this here and not on the phone with someone. If you want to engage this community then engage us. You can't have private, offline conversations about things like this. For everyone else, if you don't like the way PodTech is handling things then DON'T LET THEM HANDLE IT. Don't participate in their awards show and don't accept any awards. If nobody recognizes The Vloggies then it doesn't matter who owns the trademark. If you still want awards then someone will have to organize the community to do it. - Verdi On 7/24/07, Kent Nichols [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Off-list? If you want to engage my professional services, contact my agents. Barrett Garese at UTA. If you want to talk about the Vloggies, let's talk about the Vloggies here in public. I support an open awards show that is owned by no company. I think that Trademarking Vloggies gives your company too much control. The Oscars are owned by the film industry, and the Emmys are owned by the TV industry. There were several sponsors last year, don't they also have as much right to the mark of the Vloggies as PodTech? Oh but you have more rights don't you? Because the person that came up with the idea, the person that organized it and made it a success was on your dime... The person that was just let go, right after the Trademark was filed... By landgrabbing Vloggies, you are trying to own an industry, which is unconscionable. You guys are smart, you're just caught in a lot of bad decisions. You should donate that mark to the Creative Commons, or EFF, or create a new non-profit that will run the awards. That would be the right thing to do, and might start repairing the PR nightmare you guys are experiencing right now. -Kent, askaninja.com --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, John Furrier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kent, Email me if you'd like to get involved and we can chat off list John -- http://michaelverdi.com http://spinxpress.com http://freevlog.org Author of Secrets Of Videoblogging - http://tinyurl.com/me4vs Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [videoblogging] The Vloggies (was Re: irina gone)
Wow. Valerie was rather..erm...brazen. I'd have needed a shower after reading such self-serving tripe. When will people get that forcing outcomes like this just. doesn't. work in the long-term? Perhaps PodTech might want to get consulting from the consistently forthright, diplomatic and direct (warts and all) Blip.tv, who has my neverending respect. They've had to deal with tough decisions, technical warts and all sorts of snafus and I have yet to see them surmount a challenge with any degree of nastiness, contrived sentiment or lack of grace. As an ad/PR person, I can tell you that they've generated PR that companies pay tens of millions to agencies for by just being organic, respectful and honest. They make it look very easy, and perhaps that's because common sense and respect IS easy. Thanks to Michael and all ye who put up with such nonsense hoping it will pay dividends for vloggers. On 24/07/07, Michael Verdi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Personally, I don't like the idea of an awards show at all. Last year I tried to argue that point but it was clear that so many people wanted one and that PodTech was determined to put one on that I tried to help make it good by offering suggestions and by being a judge. The main factor that had it be successful (though I guess PodTech lost money on it) was Irina. She was really the keeper of the Vloggies soul. Had it been left up to others at PodTech, we would have seen something much different. Here's a quote by PodTech's Valerie Cunningham (emphasis is her's) from the vloggies wiki back in August last year - http://vloggies.pbwiki.com/FrontPage.2006-08-21-17-50-17 : VALERIE: [snip] - To be clear: there are two awards per category: Favorite category name and Community Choice Award We are giving OUR chosen favorite an award, and then announcing the community's choice. [snip] - We need to think of the categories in line with PodTech's affiliate content roadmap, ie Tech, News, Entertainment, Politics, Lifestyle pretty much in that order. Also, we need to think global. PodTech India is in the content roadmap. Obviously it's pretty broad. WE SHOULD KNOW WHO OUR FAVORITE CATEGORY WINNERS ARE RIGHT NOW. Simple who are our target affiliate/sister videoblog sites? Top 50 across all the categories. [snip] - So let's refine these categories please with above in mind and I'd like to see the top 50 list or whatever we should know who we want to come to this event, who PodTech's VIPs are in this community, so to speak again in line with our affiliate goals, etc. Can we see that list by Wed this week, Irina? This is the direction things were headed before we started talking about it here. With Irina no longer at PodTech is this how things will go this time? John, this is why you have to talk about this here and not on the phone with someone. If you want to engage this community then engage us. You can't have private, offline conversations about things like this. For everyone else, if you don't like the way PodTech is handling things then DON'T LET THEM HANDLE IT. Don't participate in their awards show and don't accept any awards. If nobody recognizes The Vloggies then it doesn't matter who owns the trademark. If you still want awards then someone will have to organize the community to do it. - Verdi On 7/24/07, Kent Nichols [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Off-list? If you want to engage my professional services, contact my agents. Barrett Garese at UTA. If you want to talk about the Vloggies, let's talk about the Vloggies here in public. I support an open awards show that is owned by no company. I think that Trademarking Vloggies gives your company too much control. The Oscars are owned by the film industry, and the Emmys are owned by the TV industry. There were several sponsors last year, don't they also have as much right to the mark of the Vloggies as PodTech? Oh but you have more rights don't you? Because the person that came up with the idea, the person that organized it and made it a success was on your dime... The person that was just let go, right after the Trademark was filed... By landgrabbing Vloggies, you are trying to own an industry, which is unconscionable. You guys are smart, you're just caught in a lot of bad decisions. You should donate that mark to the Creative Commons, or EFF, or create a new non-profit that will run the awards. That would be the right thing to do, and might start repairing the PR nightmare you guys are experiencing right now. -Kent, askaninja.com --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, John Furrier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kent, Email me if you'd like to get involved and we can chat off list John -- http://michaelverdi.com http://spinxpress.com http://freevlog.org Author of Secrets Of Videoblogging - http://tinyurl.com/me4vs Yahoo! Groups Links
RE: [videoblogging] The Vloggies (was Re: irina gone)
Michael, I'm happy to talk in public about this. I remember your point last year and the Vloggies concept started out as a PodTech specific event (where you cherry picked Valerie's comments) we quickly saw that it was an opportunity for a community event. There were many people involved in the Vloggies not one person or company. It's cool to see how far the Vloggies came from some of our original posts on the wiki from valerie. I'm sure that the Vloggies will take on an even more expanded view this year due to all the growth in video. I'm happy to have private and public conversations my email is john at podtech dot net -Original Message- From: videoblogging@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Verdi Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 6:06 AM To: videoblogging@yahoogroups.com Subject: [videoblogging] The Vloggies (was Re: irina gone) Personally, I don't like the idea of an awards show at all. Last year I tried to argue that point but it was clear that so many people wanted one and that PodTech was determined to put one on that I tried to help make it good by offering suggestions and by being a judge. The main factor that had it be successful (though I guess PodTech lost money on it) was Irina. She was really the keeper of the Vloggies soul. Had it been left up to others at PodTech, we would have seen something much different. Here's a quote by PodTech's Valerie Cunningham (emphasis is her's) from the vloggies wiki back in August last year - http://vloggies.pbwiki.com/FrontPage.2006-08-21-17-50-17 : VALERIE: [snip] - To be clear: there are two awards per category: Favorite category name and Community Choice Award We are giving OUR chosen favorite an award, and then announcing the community's choice. [snip] - We need to think of the categories in line with PodTech's affiliate content roadmap, ie Tech, News, Entertainment, Politics, Lifestyle - pretty much in that order. Also, we need to think global. PodTech India is in the content roadmap. Obviously it's pretty broad. WE SHOULD KNOW WHO OUR FAVORITE CATEGORY WINNERS ARE - RIGHT NOW. Simple - who are our target affiliate/sister videoblog sites? Top 50 - across all the categories. [snip] - So let's refine these categories please with above in mind and I'd like to see the top 50 list or whatever - we should know who we want to come to this event, who PodTech's VIPs are in this community, so to speak - again in line with our affiliate goals, etc. Can we see that list by Wed this week, Irina? This is the direction things were headed before we started talking about it here. With Irina no longer at PodTech is this how things will go this time? John, this is why you have to talk about this here and not on the phone with someone. If you want to engage this community then engage us. You can't have private, offline conversations about things like this. For everyone else, if you don't like the way PodTech is handling things then DON'T LET THEM HANDLE IT. Don't participate in their awards show and don't accept any awards. If nobody recognizes The Vloggies then it doesn't matter who owns the trademark. If you still want awards then someone will have to organize the community to do it. - Verdi On 7/24/07, Kent Nichols [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Off-list? If you want to engage my professional services, contact my agents. Barrett Garese at UTA. If you want to talk about the Vloggies, let's talk about the Vloggies here in public. I support an open awards show that is owned by no company. I think that Trademarking Vloggies gives your company too much control. The Oscars are owned by the film industry, and the Emmys are owned by the TV industry. There were several sponsors last year, don't they also have as much right to the mark of the Vloggies as PodTech? Oh but you have more rights don't you? Because the person that came up with the idea, the person that organized it and made it a success was on your dime... The person that was just let go, right after the Trademark was filed... By landgrabbing Vloggies, you are trying to own an industry, which is unconscionable. You guys are smart, you're just caught in a lot of bad decisions. You should donate that mark to the Creative Commons, or EFF, or create a new non-profit that will run the awards. That would be the right thing to do, and might start repairing the PR nightmare you guys are experiencing right now. -Kent, askaninja.com --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, John Furrier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kent, Email me if you'd like to get involved and we can chat off list John -- http://michaelverdi.com http://spinxpress.com http://freevlog.org Author of Secrets Of Videoblogging - http://tinyurl.com/me4vs Yahoo! Groups Links
[videoblogging] The Vloggies (was Re: irina gone)
I had the opportunity to purchase some buddy passes about a month ago...I have missed so many vlogging get togeteher's I was detirmed, not to miss another one. I S wanted to go to the vloggies last yearso I bought the buddy passes for my wife and I and set an open date for LA to go to the vloggies this year. Now I wonder if I didn't just waste a bunch of moneyI have kept my mouth shut through most of this debate but I can't hold my tounge any longer. (be warned, my spelling will probably suck and I may not always be liner here cause I am flying off the cuff)... Thismess... and let's be frank and honest, this is a mess...makes me sad and angryit started with Lan's picture and continues with this, in my opinion, spin machine working in full forceI don't know John or Robert or anyone at Podtech personaly but based on your comments and actions it seems to be alot of CYA going on here and quite franky it's making you all look like jerks...you want examples? 1 when the mess with Lan came to the attention of this group, you used the death of a loved one of someone who worked for you as an excuseTHAT IS SICKINGsomeone lost a loved one and it was used to try and garner sympathyI am left speachless at such a thoughtless act 2 you admitted your mistake with conditions attached, paraphrasing here, yeah, we were wrong but there is more to the story, we can't talk about itdamnit be a man and just say we messed up and we will make it right...everytime I heard a yeah, but from you guys, it made me think YOU had something to hide, not anyone else 3 you have the nerve in the middle of all this to talk about how much money you lost on the vloggies and how people should be cutting you slack for all the good you have doneperhaps you have done a lot of good, perhaps you will do good in the future but right know, you are doing damage to yourself and Podtechright or wrong we are judged by our every actionyour actions are speaking loud and clear... Heck even if you don't believe you did anything wrong, if you had just sucked it up and put on a good face you could have avoided most of the ill will that you are experiencing now with this communtiy.the people on this list care about what happens in this community, they care about their friends and they care about this medium and we are passionate about it. We arn't just making silly video's we believe in what the promise of the medium represents you can continue to operate the way you always have and hope to ride this outor you can start listening and learningthe choice is yours Podtech.. Heath http://batmangeek.com --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Michael Verdi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Personally, I don't like the idea of an awards show at all. Last year I tried to argue that point but it was clear that so many people wanted one and that PodTech was determined to put one on that I tried to help make it good by offering suggestions and by being a judge. The main factor that had it be successful (though I guess PodTech lost money on it) was Irina. She was really the keeper of the Vloggies soul. Had it been left up to others at PodTech, we would have seen something much different. Here's a quote by PodTech's Valerie Cunningham (emphasis is her's) from the vloggies wiki back in August last year - http://vloggies.pbwiki.com/FrontPage.2006-08-21-17-50- 17 : VALERIE: [snip] - To be clear: there are two awards per category: Favorite category name and Community Choice Award We are giving OUR chosen favorite an award, and then announcing the community's choice. [snip] - We need to think of the categories in line with PodTech's affiliate content roadmap, ie Tech, News, Entertainment, Politics, Lifestyle pretty much in that order. Also, we need to think global. PodTech India is in the content roadmap. Obviously it's pretty broad. WE SHOULD KNOW WHO OUR FAVORITE CATEGORY WINNERS ARE RIGHT NOW. Simple who are our target affiliate/sister videoblog sites? Top 50 across all the categories. [snip] - So let's refine these categories please with above in mind and I'd like to see the top 50 list or whatever we should know who we want to come to this event, who PodTech's VIPs are in this community, so to speak again in line with our affiliate goals, etc. Can we see that list by Wed this week, Irina? This is the direction things were headed before we started talking about it here. With Irina no longer at PodTech is this how things will go this time? John, this is why you have to talk about this here and not on the phone with someone. If you want to engage this community then engage us. You can't have private, offline conversations about things like this. For everyone else, if you don't like the way PodTech is handling things then DON'T LET THEM HANDLE IT. Don't participate in their awards show and
Re: [videoblogging] The Vloggies (was Re: irina gone)
On 7/24/07, Heath [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I S wanted to go to the vloggies last yearso I bought the buddy passes for my wife and I and set an open date for LA to go to the vloggies this year. Now I wonder if I didn't just waste a bunch of money Not to worry, Heath, at this rate I think its safe to say some alternative community event will be happening in LA at about the same time. :-P I think its interesting how PodTech says in one breath how they want the vloggies to be a community event ... but it seems to me (and I've been in this community far longer than they have) that PodTech never talks to the 'community' except to toss out vague insinuations that Lan was somehow partly to blame for their violating his license. I've seen nothing from PodTech (EVER, not just in this mess) to suggest to me that the above quotes from 'valerie' isn't going to be their standard operating procedure now that Irina isn't there. Irina did them a great service as liaison to the community ... the folks who are trying to pick up the role at the moment aren't nearly as effective. I'm sure PodTech is working very closely with the money bags in the world to make sure the 'vloggies' is going to be just exactly what the sponsors want it to be, and reward those vloggers which the sponsors want to promote. blah blah blah ... same old thing I guess. - Dave -- http://www.DavidMeade.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
RE: [videoblogging] The Vloggies (was Re: irina gone)
Heath, There is no CYA or spin machine only honest conversation. I'm sorry that you feel that way Heath. I don't think people want a rehash of the Lan issue but to your points 1) There is no issue with Lan we made a mistake and it was resolved. I don't know if you're referring to my moms death last month but the Lan issue was before then. 2) The only thing that I'm hiding on the Lan issue is my private conversation with Lan that resolved the matter before it was even talked about beyond his blog post. That is a private conversation between me and Lan. 3) The vloggies was a great event for all and yes we spent money and didn't make a profit - it was an investment to support the growing community and industry that was forming .. I'd rather talk with folks about how people are working together to innovate the formats, support advertising, new studio ideas, emerging networks forming ... there is much to discuss ...I agree with you Heath it's not about silly videos but emerging producers and good content. From: videoblogging@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Heath Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 7:19 AM To: videoblogging@yahoogroups.com Subject: [videoblogging] The Vloggies (was Re: irina gone) I had the opportunity to purchase some buddy passes about a month ago...I have missed so many vlogging get togeteher's I was detirmed, not to miss another one. I S wanted to go to the vloggies last yearso I bought the buddy passes for my wife and I and set an open date for LA to go to the vloggies this year. Now I wonder if I didn't just waste a bunch of moneyI have kept my mouth shut through most of this debate but I can't hold my tounge any longer. (be warned, my spelling will probably suck and I may not always be liner here cause I am flying off the cuff)... Thismess... and let's be frank and honest, this is a mess...makes me sad and angryit started with Lan's picture and continues with this, in my opinion, spin machine working in full forceI don't know John or Robert or anyone at Podtech personaly but based on your comments and actions it seems to be alot of CYA going on here and quite franky it's making you all look like jerks...you want examples? 1 when the mess with Lan came to the attention of this group, you used the death of a loved one of someone who worked for you as an excuseTHAT IS SICKINGsomeone lost a loved one and it was used to try and garner sympathyI am left speachless at such a thoughtless act 2 you admitted your mistake with conditions attached, paraphrasing here, yeah, we were wrong but there is more to the story, we can't talk about itdamnit be a man and just say we messed up and we will make it right...everytime I heard a yeah, but from you guys, it made me think YOU had something to hide, not anyone else 3 you have the nerve in the middle of all this to talk about how much money you lost on the vloggies and how people should be cutting you slack for all the good you have doneperhaps you have done a lot of good, perhaps you will do good in the future but right know, you are doing damage to yourself and Podtechright or wrong we are judged by our every actionyour actions are speaking loud and clear... Heck even if you don't believe you did anything wrong, if you had just sucked it up and put on a good face you could have avoided most of the ill will that you are experiencing now with this communtiy.the people on this list care about what happens in this community, they care about their friends and they care about this medium and we are passionate about it. We arn't just making silly video's we believe in what the promise of the medium represents you can continue to operate the way you always have and hope to ride this outor you can start listening and learningthe choice is yours Podtech.. Heath http://batmangeek.com --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.commailto:videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com, Michael Verdi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Personally, I don't like the idea of an awards show at all. Last year I tried to argue that point but it was clear that so many people wanted one and that PodTech was determined to put one on that I tried to help make it good by offering suggestions and by being a judge. The main factor that had it be successful (though I guess PodTech lost money on it) was Irina. She was really the keeper of the Vloggies soul. Had it been left up to others at PodTech, we would have seen something much different. Here's a quote by PodTech's Valerie Cunningham (emphasis is her's) from the vloggies wiki back in August last year - http://vloggies.pbwiki.com/FrontPage.2006-08-21-17-50- 17 : VALERIE: [snip] - To be clear: there are two awards per category: Favorite category name and Community Choice Award We are giving OUR chosen favorite an award, and then announcing the community's choice. [snip] - We
Re: [videoblogging] The Vloggies (was Re: irina gone)
I am racing off to a shoot this morning so I will probably chime in a bit more later, but I have been very disturbed by so much in these threads. Before leaving, I wanted to note two things: 1) The repeated references to videoblogging as the industry. 2) The reference in a recent podtech post to more content from video pros. I have nothing - NOTHING - against people making money, or people making GOOD money, from videoblogging, or any other media activity. I would be a hypocrite otherwise: while I am not what one would call a commercial filmmaker or musician based on what I produce, my living is made in those worlds, some of if directly or indirectly from my own work, and while I continue to eschew advertising (I *might* feel differently if I got to pick who the advertisers were), I am all for artists, entertainers, and alternative media people making a living at it if they want to. I also shiver at the words talent and content, but the people placed in those categories by those holding the pursestrings have been at the bottom of the food chain for way way way way way too long. The relationships need to move from the parasitic to the symbiotic side of the scale. But if media companies succeed in narrowing the general perception of videoblogging down to an industry of pros, the potential of this revolutionary medium to do so many things for so many - opening up new channels of expression for the previously unheard, the development of communities based on new forms of communication, the advancement of the art of the moving image and its language, and perhaps most importantly the breaking down of the stifling, narrow, suffocatingly dull range of media options and opportunities economically dictated in their mania for predictable financial outcomes by old media, by the high-finance side of the art world, and by the now star-driven field of independent film - will be lost. (oh, and apparently the need to create run on sentences like the one above ;-) I don't want to have to find another word besides videoblogging to describe that side of what I do, but much of the recent dialog makes me worry that I will soon have to. A couple of other things: 3) Blip is indeed a wonderful model of what businesses in this new world can be. 4) Irina, who I have never met, seems to be a force of nature in this community - the good kind - and I hope in the long term this opens up more opportunities for her. 5) I remain optimistic about the potential for this medium. I want to be clear - this is not an anti-moneymaking rant. But please please please lets keep videoblogging from going down the road indie film went: becoming a slightly edgier copycat of the same world it hoped to be an alternative to. Sure there's room for blatantly commercial and old-media-like work, but let's keep the term, the field, the form, viably and visibly open, so that new voices, new possibiities, and alternative and groundbreaking work - in whatever form they take - are the point rather than the exceptions. Brook ___ Brook Hinton film/video/audio art www.brookhinton.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [videoblogging] The Vloggies (was Re: irina gone)
I don't get you John. Cherry picked Valerie's comments? Look at what she said - I included almost everything. I was trying to keep the email as short and relevant as possible. I also linked to the whole page so anyone could go read it for themselves. BTW, Scoble didn't think it was cherry picking when I brought it up last year: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/message/48448 Again, here's the page with Valerie's coments: http://vloggies.pbwiki.com/FrontPage.2006-08-21-17-50-17 Maybe you're right and you guys are better off not talking about things publicly. You certainly aren't helping your situation. Oh and for the record, the vloggies didn't start out as a PodTech specific event - Irina was talking about the vloggies before she went to work at PodTech. You guys saw the opportunity for a community event after people started hearing about your plans. On 7/24/07, John Furrier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I remember your point last year and the Vloggies concept started out as a PodTech specific event (where you cherry picked Valerie's comments) we quickly saw that it was an opportunity for a community event. - Verdi -- http://michaelverdi.com http://spinxpress.com http://freevlog.org Author of Secrets Of Videoblogging - http://tinyurl.com/me4vs
[videoblogging] The Vloggies (was Re: irina gone)
John - I owe you an apology, I did not realize until after I sent the message it was your mother who had passed away. I got confused and did not realize it was Robert who had made the comment. It may not mean much now but I am truely sorry for your loss. I should have checked before I wrote my note, no excuse on my part... Heath http://batmangeek.com --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, John Furrier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Heath, There is no CYA or spin machine only honest conversation. I'm sorry that you feel that way Heath. I don't think people want a rehash of the Lan issue but to your points 1) There is no issue with Lan we made a mistake and it was resolved. I don't know if you're referring to my moms death last month but the Lan issue was before then. 2) The only thing that I'm hiding on the Lan issue is my private conversation with Lan that resolved the matter before it was even talked about beyond his blog post. That is a private conversation between me and Lan. 3) The vloggies was a great event for all and yes we spent money and didn't make a profit - it was an investment to support the growing community and industry that was forming .. I'd rather talk with folks about how people are working together to innovate the formats, support advertising, new studio ideas, emerging networks forming ... there is much to discuss ...I agree with you Heath it's not about silly videos but emerging producers and good content. From: videoblogging@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Heath Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 7:19 AM To: videoblogging@yahoogroups.com Subject: [videoblogging] The Vloggies (was Re: irina gone) I had the opportunity to purchase some buddy passes about a month ago...I have missed so many vlogging get togeteher's I was detirmed, not to miss another one. I S wanted to go to the vloggies last yearso I bought the buddy passes for my wife and I and set an open date for LA to go to the vloggies this year. Now I wonder if I didn't just waste a bunch of moneyI have kept my mouth shut through most of this debate but I can't hold my tounge any longer. (be warned, my spelling will probably suck and I may not always be liner here cause I am flying off the cuff)... Thismess... and let's be frank and honest, this is a mess...makes me sad and angryit started with Lan's picture and continues with this, in my opinion, spin machine working in full forceI don't know John or Robert or anyone at Podtech personaly but based on your comments and actions it seems to be alot of CYA going on here and quite franky it's making you all look like jerks...you want examples? 1 when the mess with Lan came to the attention of this group, you used the death of a loved one of someone who worked for you as an excuseTHAT IS SICKINGsomeone lost a loved one and it was used to try and garner sympathyI am left speachless at such a thoughtless act 2 you admitted your mistake with conditions attached, paraphrasing here, yeah, we were wrong but there is more to the story, we can't talk about itdamnit be a man and just say we messed up and we will make it right...everytime I heard a yeah, but from you guys, it made me think YOU had something to hide, not anyone else 3 you have the nerve in the middle of all this to talk about how much money you lost on the vloggies and how people should be cutting you slack for all the good you have doneperhaps you have done a lot of good, perhaps you will do good in the future but right know, you are doing damage to yourself and Podtechright or wrong we are judged by our every actionyour actions are speaking loud and clear... Heck even if you don't believe you did anything wrong, if you had just sucked it up and put on a good face you could have avoided most of the ill will that you are experiencing now with this communtiy.the people on this list care about what happens in this community, they care about their friends and they care about this medium and we are passionate about it. We arn't just making silly video's we believe in what the promise of the medium represents you can continue to operate the way you always have and hope to ride this outor you can start listening and learningthe choice is yours Podtech.. Heath http://batmangeek.com --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.commailto:videoblogging% 40yahoogroups.com, Michael Verdi michaelverdi@ wrote: Personally, I don't like the idea of an awards show at all. Last year I tried to argue that point but it was clear that so many people wanted one and that PodTech was determined to put one on that I tried to help make it good by offering suggestions and by being a judge. The main factor that had it be successful (though I guess PodTech lost money on it) was Irina. She was really
RE: [videoblogging] The Vloggies (was Re: irina gone)
Michael, Sorry about the choice of word there...I meant to say that it was discussed as podtech event and Valerie works in marketing so she was taking a podtech oriented stance... sorry From: videoblogging@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Verdi Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 7:58 AM To: videoblogging@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [videoblogging] The Vloggies (was Re: irina gone) I don't get you John. Cherry picked Valerie's comments? Look at what she said - I included almost everything. I was trying to keep the email as short and relevant as possible. I also linked to the whole page so anyone could go read it for themselves. BTW, Scoble didn't think it was cherry picking when I brought it up last year: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/message/48448 Again, here's the page with Valerie's coments: http://vloggies.pbwiki.com/FrontPage.2006-08-21-17-50-17 Maybe you're right and you guys are better off not talking about things publicly. You certainly aren't helping your situation. Oh and for the record, the vloggies didn't start out as a PodTech specific event - Irina was talking about the vloggies before she went to work at PodTech. You guys saw the opportunity for a community event after people started hearing about your plans. On 7/24/07, John Furrier [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:john%40podtech.net wrote: I remember your point last year and the Vloggies concept started out as a PodTech specific event (where you cherry picked Valerie's comments) we quickly saw that it was an opportunity for a community event. - Verdi -- http://michaelverdi.com http://spinxpress.com http://freevlog.org Author of Secrets Of Videoblogging - http://tinyurl.com/me4vs [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[videoblogging] The Vloggies (was Re: irina gone)
I wasn't trying to rehash the Lan issue, but my frustration has been building since then, there were a ton and I do feel like it was a ton of mistakes in how that issue was handled, you're right though, as far as Lan and you are concerned (to my knowledge) it is resolved. But try and understand, that it went from Lan, straight to Irina and now the concern with the vloggies3 major things in about a month's timeyou are talking, that's greatbut actions will always speak louder than words Maybe you've just had a bad month or soI don't know, things happen and there is generaly a cycle to events...but I don't know any of you personaly, I only know what I read and my opinions are being formed by that.and to be honest I don't know what to think Heath http://batmangeek.com --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, John Furrier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Heath, There is no CYA or spin machine only honest conversation. I'm sorry that you feel that way Heath. I don't think people want a rehash of the Lan issue but to your points 1) There is no issue with Lan we made a mistake and it was resolved. I don't know if you're referring to my moms death last month but the Lan issue was before then. 2) The only thing that I'm hiding on the Lan issue is my private conversation with Lan that resolved the matter before it was even talked about beyond his blog post. That is a private conversation between me and Lan. 3) The vloggies was a great event for all and yes we spent money and didn't make a profit - it was an investment to support the growing community and industry that was forming .. I'd rather talk with folks about how people are working together to innovate the formats, support advertising, new studio ideas, emerging networks forming ... there is much to discuss ...I agree with you Heath it's not about silly videos but emerging producers and good content. From: videoblogging@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Heath Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 7:19 AM To: videoblogging@yahoogroups.com Subject: [videoblogging] The Vloggies (was Re: irina gone) I had the opportunity to purchase some buddy passes about a month ago...I have missed so many vlogging get togeteher's I was detirmed, not to miss another one. I S wanted to go to the vloggies last yearso I bought the buddy passes for my wife and I and set an open date for LA to go to the vloggies this year. Now I wonder if I didn't just waste a bunch of moneyI have kept my mouth shut through most of this debate but I can't hold my tounge any longer. (be warned, my spelling will probably suck and I may not always be liner here cause I am flying off the cuff)... Thismess... and let's be frank and honest, this is a mess...makes me sad and angryit started with Lan's picture and continues with this, in my opinion, spin machine working in full forceI don't know John or Robert or anyone at Podtech personaly but based on your comments and actions it seems to be alot of CYA going on here and quite franky it's making you all look like jerks...you want examples? 1 when the mess with Lan came to the attention of this group, you used the death of a loved one of someone who worked for you as an excuseTHAT IS SICKINGsomeone lost a loved one and it was used to try and garner sympathyI am left speachless at such a thoughtless act 2 you admitted your mistake with conditions attached, paraphrasing here, yeah, we were wrong but there is more to the story, we can't talk about itdamnit be a man and just say we messed up and we will make it right...everytime I heard a yeah, but from you guys, it made me think YOU had something to hide, not anyone else 3 you have the nerve in the middle of all this to talk about how much money you lost on the vloggies and how people should be cutting you slack for all the good you have doneperhaps you have done a lot of good, perhaps you will do good in the future but right know, you are doing damage to yourself and Podtechright or wrong we are judged by our every actionyour actions are speaking loud and clear... Heck even if you don't believe you did anything wrong, if you had just sucked it up and put on a good face you could have avoided most of the ill will that you are experiencing now with this communtiy.the people on this list care about what happens in this community, they care about their friends and they care about this medium and we are passionate about it. We arn't just making silly video's we believe in what the promise of the medium represents you can continue to operate the way you always have and hope to ride this outor you can start listening and learningthe choice is yours Podtech.. Heath http://batmangeek.com --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.commailto:videoblogging
Re: [videoblogging] The Vloggies (was Re: irina gone)
Group Hug love Schlomo On 7/24/07, John Furrier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael, Sorry about the choice of word there...I meant to say that it was discussed as podtech event and Valerie works in marketing so she was taking a podtech oriented stance... sorry From: videoblogging@yahoogroups.com videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com[mailto: videoblogging@yahoogroups.com videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Verdi Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 7:58 AM To: videoblogging@yahoogroups.com videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [videoblogging] The Vloggies (was Re: irina gone) I don't get you John. Cherry picked Valerie's comments? Look at what she said - I included almost everything. I was trying to keep the email as short and relevant as possible. I also linked to the whole page so anyone could go read it for themselves. BTW, Scoble didn't think it was cherry picking when I brought it up last year: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/message/48448 Again, here's the page with Valerie's coments: http://vloggies.pbwiki.com/FrontPage.2006-08-21-17-50-17 Maybe you're right and you guys are better off not talking about things publicly. You certainly aren't helping your situation. Oh and for the record, the vloggies didn't start out as a PodTech specific event - Irina was talking about the vloggies before she went to work at PodTech. You guys saw the opportunity for a community event after people started hearing about your plans. On 7/24/07, John Furrier [EMAIL PROTECTED] john%40podtech.netmailto: john% john%2540podtech.net wrote: I remember your point last year and the Vloggies concept started out as a PodTech specific event (where you cherry picked Valerie's comments) we quickly saw that it was an opportunity for a community event. - Verdi -- http://michaelverdi.com http://spinxpress.com http://freevlog.org Author of Secrets Of Videoblogging - http://tinyurl.com/me4vs [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[videoblogging] The Vloggies (was Re: irina gone)
I just thought since everyone is talking on this post I should too. Just for fun. I don't understand why everyone is a little mad about the whole Vloggies thing. It is a little shady if they did get the trademark name that Irina made up and worked so hard on The Vloggies. But if they have the rights to it, just like before, ( i think Kent said something) the awards shows will be handled just like the history of the emmy's other popular award shows. So if they say they are going to handle it like that, I mean what can we do? Nothing, except like a protest.That is kind of what it sounds like Verdi mentioned in previous e mails. Oh well..I just think the power is out of each individuals hands and is more in the power or PodTech for them to do whatev they want. oh yea what was the reasoning for me to post this? oh.. just for fun...
[videoblogging] The Vloggies (was Re: irina gone)
Word.. thank for the hug Scholmo.. we all needed it
Re: [videoblogging] The Vloggies (was Re: irina gone)
Ok great. Now with Irina not at PodTech this year, what are your plans? My impression of last year was that it was Irina that kept it from being the kind of thing that Valerie was talking about. - Verdi On 7/24/07, John Furrier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael, Sorry about the choice of word there...I meant to say that it was discussed as podtech event and Valerie works in marketing so she was taking a podtech oriented stance... sorry -- http://michaelverdi.com http://spinxpress.com http://freevlog.org Author of Secrets Of Videoblogging - http://tinyurl.com/me4vs
Re: [videoblogging] The Vloggies (was Re: irina gone)
I strongly agree with this. I realize it's business as usual for more traditional media businesses to use award shows as a way to scratch the backs of their VIPs and biggest stakeholders, but I find something like that entirely disingenuous in the case of PodTech and the Vloggies. Not only that, but it's bad business sense in a market where the largest stakeholders are ill defined and change every few months. -- Rhett. http://www.weatherlight.com/freetime http://www.weatherlight.com/greentime John, this is why you have to talk about this here and not on the phone with someone. If you want to engage this community then engage us. You can't have private, offline conversations about things like this. For everyone else, if you don't like the way PodTech is handling things then DON'T LET THEM HANDLE IT. Don't participate in their awards show and don't accept any awards. If nobody recognizes The Vloggies then it doesn't matter who owns the trademark. If you still want awards then someone will have to organize the community to do it. - Verdi On 7/24/07, Kent Nichols [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Off-list? If you want to engage my professional services, contact my agents. Barrett Garese at UTA. If you want to talk about the Vloggies, let's talk about the Vloggies here in public. I support an open awards show that is owned by no company. I think that Trademarking Vloggies gives your company too much control. The Oscars are owned by the film industry, and the Emmys are owned by the TV industry. There were several sponsors last year, don't they also have as much right to the mark of the Vloggies as PodTech? Oh but you have more rights don't you? Because the person that came up with the idea, the person that organized it and made it a success was on your dime... The person that was just let go, right after the Trademark was filed... By landgrabbing Vloggies, you are trying to own an industry, which is unconscionable. You guys are smart, you're just caught in a lot of bad decisions. You should donate that mark to the Creative Commons, or EFF, or create a new non-profit that will run the awards. That would be the right thing to do, and might start repairing the PR nightmare you guys are experiencing right now. -Kent, askaninja.com --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, John Furrier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kent, Email me if you'd like to get involved and we can chat off list John -- http://michaelverdi.com http://spinxpress.com http://freevlog.org Author of Secrets Of Videoblogging - http://tinyurl.com/me4vs Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [videoblogging] The Vloggies (was Re: irina gone)
Thanks I needed that. Sent from my BlackBerry wireless handheld. -Original Message- From: schlomo rabinowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 08:24:07 To:videoblogging@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [videoblogging] The Vloggies (was Re: irina gone) Group Hug love Schlomo On 7/24/07, John Furrier [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:john%40podtech.net net wrote: Michael, Sorry about the choice of word there...I meant to say that it was discussed as podtech event and Valerie works in marketing so she was taking a podtech oriented stance... sorry From: videoblogging@ mailto:videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com[mailto: videoblogging@ mailto:videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Verdi Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 7:58 AM To: videoblogging@ mailto:videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [videoblogging] The Vloggies (was Re: irina gone) I don't get you John. Cherry picked Valerie's comments? Look at what she said - I included almost everything. I was trying to keep the email as short and relevant as possible. I also linked to the whole page so anyone could go read it for themselves. BTW, Scoble didn't think it was cherry picking when I brought it up last year: http://tech. http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/message/48448 groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/message/48448 Again, here's the page with Valerie's coments: http://vloggies. http://vloggies.pbwiki.com/FrontPage.2006-08-21-17-50-17 pbwiki.com/FrontPage.2006-08-21-17-50-17 Maybe you're right and you guys are better off not talking about things publicly. You certainly aren't helping your situation. Oh and for the record, the vloggies didn't start out as a PodTech specific event - Irina was talking about the vloggies before she went to work at PodTech. You guys saw the opportunity for a community event after people started hearing about your plans. On 7/24/07, John Furrier [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:john%40podtech.net net john%40podtech.netmailto: john% john%2540podtech.net wrote: I remember your point last year and the Vloggies concept started out as a PodTech specific event (where you cherry picked Valerie's comments) we quickly saw that it was an opportunity for a community event. - Verdi -- http://michaelverdi http://michaelverdi.com .com http://spinxpress. http://spinxpress.com com http://freevlog. http://freevlog.org org Author of Secrets Of Videoblogging - http://tinyurl. http://tinyurl.com/me4vs com/me4vs [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Messages in this topic http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/message/62897;_ylc=X3oDMTM3NzdpNmdyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEyODA1NjY2BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTU1NDAyMQRtc2dJZAM2MjkyMARzZWMDZnRyBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzExODUyOTA2NDkEdHBjSWQDNjI4OTc- (0) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJyYjVodGozBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEyODA1NjY2BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTU1NDAyMQRtc2dJZAM2MjkyMARzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzExODUyOTA2NDk-?act=replymessageNum=62920 Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJmZTluNHVuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEyODA1NjY2BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTU1NDAyMQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNudHBjBHN0aW1lAzExODUyOTA2NDk- Messages http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/messages;_ylc=X3oDMTJmcXFmdDRpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEyODA1NjY2BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTU1NDAyMQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNtc2dzBHN0aW1lAzExODUyOTA2NDk- | Links http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/links;_ylc=X3oDMTJnY3VoZnEzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEyODA1NjY2BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTU1NDAyMQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNsaW5rcwRzdGltZQMxMTg1MjkwNjQ5 | Polls http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/polls;_ylc=X3oDMTJnYWx0ZnFuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEyODA1NjY2BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTU1NDAyMQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNwb2xscwRzdGltZQMxMTg1MjkwNjQ5 http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJlbnF1OTlpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEyODA1NjY2BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTU1NDAyMQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNnZnAEc3RpbWUDMTE4NTI5MDY0OQ-- Change settings via the Web http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/join;_ylc=X3oDMTJnNmE2N2FyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEyODA1NjY2BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTU1NDAyMQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNzdG5ncwRzdGltZQMxMTg1MjkwNjQ5 (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Delivery: Digest | Switch format to Traditional mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Delivery Format: Traditional Visit Your Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging;_ylc
Re: [videoblogging] The Vloggies (was Re: irina gone)
The whole Podtech Affair (Irina, Lan, Vloggies, the public defenses from Scoble and Furrier) reeks of traditional (old) media, old business. Instead of standing up for something or for other people, we are left with nothing but a diluted, tasteless word salad. On 24/07/07, J. Rhett Aultman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I strongly agree with this. I realize it's business as usual for more traditional media businesses to use award shows as a way to scratch the backs of their VIPs and biggest stakeholders, but I find something like that entirely disingenuous in the case of PodTech and the Vloggies. Not only that, but it's bad business sense in a market where the largest stakeholders are ill defined and change every few months. -- Rhett. http://www.weatherlight.com/freetime http://www.weatherlight.com/greentime John, this is why you have to talk about this here and not on the phone with someone. If you want to engage this community then engage us. You can't have private, offline conversations about things like this. For everyone else, if you don't like the way PodTech is handling things then DON'T LET THEM HANDLE IT. Don't participate in their awards show and don't accept any awards. If nobody recognizes The Vloggies then it doesn't matter who owns the trademark. If you still want awards then someone will have to organize the community to do it. - Verdi On 7/24/07, Kent Nichols [EMAIL PROTECTED]digitalfilmmaker%40gmail.com wrote: Off-list? If you want to engage my professional services, contact my agents. Barrett Garese at UTA. If you want to talk about the Vloggies, let's talk about the Vloggies here in public. I support an open awards show that is owned by no company. I think that Trademarking Vloggies gives your company too much control. The Oscars are owned by the film industry, and the Emmys are owned by the TV industry. There were several sponsors last year, don't they also have as much right to the mark of the Vloggies as PodTech? Oh but you have more rights don't you? Because the person that came up with the idea, the person that organized it and made it a success was on your dime... The person that was just let go, right after the Trademark was filed... By landgrabbing Vloggies, you are trying to own an industry, which is unconscionable. You guys are smart, you're just caught in a lot of bad decisions. You should donate that mark to the Creative Commons, or EFF, or create a new non-profit that will run the awards. That would be the right thing to do, and might start repairing the PR nightmare you guys are experiencing right now. -Kent, askaninja.com --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com, John Furrier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kent, Email me if you'd like to get involved and we can chat off list John -- http://michaelverdi.com http://spinxpress.com http://freevlog.org Author of Secrets Of Videoblogging - http://tinyurl.com/me4vs Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[videoblogging] The Vloggies (was Re: irina gone)
yea i don't like word salad.. that much Although. Schlomo hugs are nice.. --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Jeffrey Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The whole Podtech Affair (Irina, Lan, Vloggies, the public defenses from Scoble and Furrier) reeks of traditional (old) media, old business. Instead of standing up for something or for other people, we are left with nothing but a diluted, tasteless word salad.
Re: [videoblogging] The Vloggies (was Re: irina gone)
Yeah, I know what you mean - I'm not a huge fan of awards shows either (except when I win lots of money by betting on the Oscars), but I don't like the idea of community awards - I'd rather they were handled by Podtech (or whoever) and treated honestly for what they are. Whatever community love Irina brought to the table, that thing you quoted from the wiki just goes to show that Awards Shows are pretty much a commercial concept at heart. They're not a level-playing-field community thing to reward individuals for individual artistic achievement. Popular shows win, because they get more votes. Popular shows tend to be commercial show concepts rather than, say, personal videoblogs. So in the end the main benefactors of awards are popular shows who can then put up banners saying Winner of 5 vloggies and tell that to their viewers and the press. That might help Ask A Ninja or Galacticast or Ze Frank who benefit from being seen by the maximum number of people because they have mass appeal. Personally, i don't feel that if I won an award (best shouting into a cellphone camera on the streets of London?) it would boost my audience in any lasting way, since the very few people who want to watch and subscribe to some british tit shouting into his phone over the internet are pretty much going to find me anyway. I like my community to be without judgement and ranking. I don't want my community to tell me that there's some other london cellphone shouter they like more than me, or to tell that person that they like me more. What does that mean? It probably means the winner was able to marshal more friends and family to go online and vote. So I'd prefer it if we didn't have a community awards. I'm quite happy for Podtech and the corporate mass-appeal boys and girls to do their commercial Awards thing and compete for promotional opportunities, while the rest of us just get on with making our videos and connecting with people, for whatever bizarre reasons. Then if any awards drop out of the sky, it's easier to accept them while taking a moment to be humble enough to know that it doesn't mean we're the best at anything - just that some people voted. Rupert http://twittervlog.tv On 24 Jul 2007, at 14:06, Michael Verdi wrote: Personally, I don't like the idea of an awards show at all. Last year I tried to argue that point but it was clear that so many people wanted one and that PodTech was determined to put one on that I tried to help make it good by offering suggestions and by being a judge. The main factor that had it be successful (though I guess PodTech lost money on it) was Irina. She was really the keeper of the Vloggies soul. Had it been left up to others at PodTech, we would have seen something much different. Here's a quote by PodTech's Valerie Cunningham (emphasis is her's) from the vloggies wiki back in August last year - http://vloggies.pbwiki.com/FrontPage.2006-08-21-17-50-17 : VALERIE: [snip] - To be clear: there are two awards per category: Favorite category name and Community Choice Award We are giving OUR chosen favorite an award, and then announcing the community's choice. [snip] - We need to think of the categories in line with PodTech's affiliate content roadmap, ie Tech, News, Entertainment, Politics, Lifestyle pretty much in that order. Also, we need to think global. PodTech India is in the content roadmap. Obviously it's pretty broad. WE SHOULD KNOW WHO OUR FAVORITE CATEGORY WINNERS ARE RIGHT NOW. Simple who are our target affiliate/sister videoblog sites? Top 50 across all the categories. [snip] - So let's refine these categories please with above in mind and I'd like to see the top 50 list or whatever we should know who we want to come to this event, who PodTech's VIPs are in this community, so to speak again in line with our affiliate goals, etc. Can we see that list by Wed this week, Irina? This is the direction things were headed before we started talking about it here. With Irina no longer at PodTech is this how things will go this time? John, this is why you have to talk about this here and not on the phone with someone. If you want to engage this community then engage us. You can't have private, offline conversations about things like this. For everyone else, if you don't like the way PodTech is handling things then DON'T LET THEM HANDLE IT. Don't participate in their awards show and don't accept any awards. If nobody recognizes The Vloggies then it doesn't matter who owns the trademark. If you still want awards then someone will have to organize the community to do it. - Verdi On 7/24/07, Kent Nichols [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Off-list? If you want to engage my professional services, contact my agents. Barrett Garese at UTA. If you want to talk about the Vloggies, let's talk about the Vloggies here in public. I support an open awards show that is owned by no company. I think that
Re: [videoblogging] The Vloggies (was Re: irina gone)
For what it's worth, Freetime is profoundly unpopular, and we still won a People's Choice for Best Documentary, so this isn't necessarily true. Also, having the Vloggy definitely improved our viewership, as we went from being completely unknown to being only moderately unknown. -- Rhett. http://www.weatherlight.com/freetime http://www.weatherlight.com/greentime Popular shows win, because they get more votes. Popular shows tend to be commercial show concepts rather than, say, personal videoblogs. So in the end the main benefactors of awards are popular shows who can then put up banners saying Winner of 5 vloggies and tell that to their viewers and the press. That might help Ask A Ninja or Galacticast or Ze Frank who benefit from being seen by the maximum number of people because they have mass appeal.
RE: [videoblogging] The Vloggies (was Re: irina gone)
Thanks Jeffrey. I'm sorry that you feel that way. We stand up for video producers and people investing in the space. It can get commercial and I understand the perceptions there. As the net accepts more and more independent producers new talent will emerge. That is my opinion and I'm behind that. PodTech is far from old media and in fact we'll experiment and innovate as much as we can to push the envelope on ideas and creativity. I know others feel the same way - create content, innovate, and push the envelope on new ideas. From: videoblogging@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Taylor Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 8:57 AM To: videoblogging@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [videoblogging] The Vloggies (was Re: irina gone) The whole Podtech Affair (Irina, Lan, Vloggies, the public defenses from Scoble and Furrier) reeks of traditional (old) media, old business. Instead of standing up for something or for other people, we are left with nothing but a diluted, tasteless word salad. On 24/07/07, J. Rhett Aultman [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:wlight%40weatherlight.com wrote: I strongly agree with this. I realize it's business as usual for more traditional media businesses to use award shows as a way to scratch the backs of their VIPs and biggest stakeholders, but I find something like that entirely disingenuous in the case of PodTech and the Vloggies. Not only that, but it's bad business sense in a market where the largest stakeholders are ill defined and change every few months. -- Rhett. http://www.weatherlight.com/freetime http://www.weatherlight.com/greentime John, this is why you have to talk about this here and not on the phone with someone. If you want to engage this community then engage us. You can't have private, offline conversations about things like this. For everyone else, if you don't like the way PodTech is handling things then DON'T LET THEM HANDLE IT. Don't participate in their awards show and don't accept any awards. If nobody recognizes The Vloggies then it doesn't matter who owns the trademark. If you still want awards then someone will have to organize the community to do it. - Verdi On 7/24/07, Kent Nichols [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:digitalfilmmaker%40gmail.comdigitalfilmmaker%40gmail.com wrote: Off-list? If you want to engage my professional services, contact my agents. Barrett Garese at UTA. If you want to talk about the Vloggies, let's talk about the Vloggies here in public. I support an open awards show that is owned by no company. I think that Trademarking Vloggies gives your company too much control. The Oscars are owned by the film industry, and the Emmys are owned by the TV industry. There were several sponsors last year, don't they also have as much right to the mark of the Vloggies as PodTech? Oh but you have more rights don't you? Because the person that came up with the idea, the person that organized it and made it a success was on your dime... The person that was just let go, right after the Trademark was filed... By landgrabbing Vloggies, you are trying to own an industry, which is unconscionable. You guys are smart, you're just caught in a lot of bad decisions. You should donate that mark to the Creative Commons, or EFF, or create a new non-profit that will run the awards. That would be the right thing to do, and might start repairing the PR nightmare you guys are experiencing right now. -Kent, askaninja.com --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.commailto:videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com videoblogging%40yahoogroups.com, John Furrier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kent, Email me if you'd like to get involved and we can chat off list John -- http://michaelverdi.com http://spinxpress.com http://freevlog.org Author of Secrets Of Videoblogging - http://tinyurl.com/me4vs Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [videoblogging] The Vloggies (was Re: irina gone)
it's interesting though how this list has changed.. when I first joined, the threads were shorter and the conversations were done on video and there was less text. whatever happened to that. awards seem strange for personal media to me also. awards/more people seem to lead to increased business-like behaviour, a more traditional mail list and less video conversations? are they all on utube now in video responses perhaps. On 7/24/07, Rupert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, I know what you mean - I'm not a huge fan of awards shows either (except when I win lots of money by betting on the Oscars), but I don't like the idea of community awards - I'd rather they were handled by Podtech (or whoever) and treated honestly for what they are. Whatever community love Irina brought to the table, that thing you quoted from the wiki just goes to show that Awards Shows are pretty much a commercial concept at heart. They're not a level-playing-field community thing to reward individuals for individual artistic achievement. Popular shows win, because they get more votes. Popular shows tend to be commercial show concepts rather than, say, personal videoblogs. So in the end the main benefactors of awards are popular shows who can then put up banners saying Winner of 5 vloggies and tell that to their viewers and the press. That might help Ask A Ninja or Galacticast or Ze Frank who benefit from being seen by the maximum number of people because they have mass appeal. Personally, i don't feel that if I won an award (best shouting into a cellphone camera on the streets of London?) it would boost my audience in any lasting way, since the very few people who want to watch and subscribe to some british tit shouting into his phone over the internet are pretty much going to find me anyway. I like my community to be without judgement and ranking. I don't want my community to tell me that there's some other london cellphone shouter they like more than me, or to tell that person that they like me more. What does that mean? It probably means the winner was able to marshal more friends and family to go online and vote. So I'd prefer it if we didn't have a community awards. I'm quite happy for Podtech and the corporate mass-appeal boys and girls to do their commercial Awards thing and compete for promotional opportunities, while the rest of us just get on with making our videos and connecting with people, for whatever bizarre reasons. Then if any awards drop out of the sky, it's easier to accept them while taking a moment to be humble enough to know that it doesn't mean we're the best at anything - just that some people voted. Rupert http://twittervlog.tv On 24 Jul 2007, at 14:06, Michael Verdi wrote: Personally, I don't like the idea of an awards show at all. Last year I tried to argue that point but it was clear that so many people [snip] -- http://www.aliak.com
