Re: [Videolib] 13th and Streaming Distribution w/o EducationalAvailability

[Randy Pitman]

This is the big issue and I agree with everything that has been said so far. 
This was always going to be the dark side of digital—controlled access that 
made the First Sale Doctrine moot. We will need to find a solution that will 
work for all libraries—K-12, academic, public, special. 

Physical copies are still the gold standard but obviously not the future. If 
Netflix and Amazon balk at creating library-friendly platforms, I wonder 
whether an option of sublicensing to existing platforms (Alexander Street 
Press, Films on Demand, hoopla, Kanopy, etc.) would be a viable possibility? 
Although as Mat from Passion River has just pointed out, Netflix and Amazon may 
not necessarily hold various rights to titles.

We do need to be more vocal—letters, petitions, etc. And NMM 2017 sounds like a 
great venue for hashing out details.

Best,

Randy

Randy Pitman
Publisher/Editor
Video Librarian
3435 NE Nine Boulder Dr.
Poulsbo, WA 98370
Tel: (360) 626-1259
Fax (360) 626-1260
E-mail: vid...@videolibrarian.com
Web: www.videolibrarian.com

From: Brian W Boling 
Sent: Friday, December 02, 2016 9:10 AM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu 
Subject: Re: [Videolib] 13th and Streaming Distribution w/o 
EducationalAvailability

I agree that the issue of digital-only copies is becoming a critical one for 
libraries, both for us video folks and in music librarianship.


At the VRT Business meeting in Orlando, we learned that a high-level ALA group 
tasked with meeting with streaming content providers was on hold, but would 
likely gain traction again during the ALA Presidency of Jim Neal.  This 
high-level group was a subcommittee of the same group that negotiated e-book 
licensing terms with the Big Six--or is it now down to Five?--publishers.  I'd 
volunteered to continue work on this topic in the interim, as did several 
others, but I have not heard additional information or requests for help.  Has 
anyone else who volunteered for this ad hoc VRT committee been contacted?


I like the ideas that have been discussed in this thread and would be glad to 
participate in them further.  Still, going on the "strength in numbers" 
principle, it might make sense to also bring in support from the Music 
Libraries Association, big ALA (especially their Office of Information and 
Technology Policy), and other groups besides VRT/NMM that I'm be forgetting.  
For instance, don't libraries that are under-represented on Videolib (K-12, for 
instance) also face this issue?


I'm glad to see some constructive suggestions for moving forward on this issue!


Brian 


Brian Boling

Past-chair, Video Round Table

Media Services Librarian

Temple University Libraries

brian.bol...@temple.edu

Schedule a meeting during my office hours

Brian Boling

Media Services Librarian

Temple University Libraries

brian.bol...@temple.edu

Schedule a meeting during my office hours


On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 11:37 AM, meredith miller 
 wrote:

  I love this idea! I've been pursuing this on individual basis with both 
Netflix and Amazon. My argument has been that this type of licensing is another 
potential revenue stream that they are not considering. I think there is a 
general misunderstanding about the educational licensing market and the value 
that it has - so I think educating them on who we are and why we are important 
is crucial.  

  I'm happy to dive into this! I think it would be good to discuss strategy 
first. Is anyone interested in a conference call early next week?

  Meredith

  On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 11:12 AM, Susan Albrecht  wrote:

I think these are genius ideas from Meghann.  I especially like the idea of 
a joint letter from VRT and NMM and having an “all set” statement with many 
signatures ready to attach to an email we’re sending.



So who’s the drafter? ;)



Susan Albrecht

Graduate Fellowship Advisor

Library Media Acquisitions Manager

Wabash College Lilly Library

765-361-6216 (acquisitions) / 765-361-6297 (fellowships)

765-361-6295 fax

albre...@wabash.edu

Twitter:  @Wab_Fellowships

www.facebook.com/wabashcollegelibrary.films



***

"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice." --Neil Peart

***



From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Meghann Matwichuk
Sent: Friday, December 02, 2016 10:59 AM


To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: [Videolib] 13th and Streaming Distribution w/o Educational 
Availability


I like the idea of a petition.  Who would we target?  Amazon (Prime) and 
Netflix seem to be the primary 'offenders' right now.  (But there are 
individual / self-distributors who are also only selling to individuals via 
stream.)

Another possibility -- maybe a joint lett

Re: [Videolib] 13th and Streaming Distribution w/o EducationalAvailability

[Jessica Rosner]

I agree that sub licensing is far more likely then them ever agreeing to
physical copies. I can say from experience that for MOST things Netflix and
Amazon do not own EDU rights but they almost surely do for series they
produce and I think for certain films they buy. I have actually had to
convince some rights holders that they don't own those rights and sure
enough they check with Netflix/Amazon and find that "closed" educational
streaming does not conflict with their contract.



On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 12:44 PM, Randy Pitman 
wrote:

> This is the big issue and I agree with everything that has been said so
> far. This was always going to be the dark side of digital—controlled access
> that made the First Sale Doctrine moot. We will need to find a solution
> that will work for all libraries—K-12, academic, public, special.
>
> Physical copies are still the gold standard but obviously not the future.
> If Netflix and Amazon balk at creating library-friendly platforms, I wonder
> whether an option of sublicensing to existing platforms (Alexander Street
> Press, Films on Demand, hoopla, Kanopy, etc.) would be a viable
> possibility? Although as Mat from Passion River has just pointed out,
> Netflix and Amazon may not necessarily hold various rights to titles.
>
> We do need to be more vocal—letters, petitions, etc. And NMM 2017 sounds
> like a great venue for hashing out details.
>
> Best,
>
> Randy
>
> Randy Pitman
> Publisher/Editor
> Video Librarian
> 3435 NE Nine Boulder Dr.
> Poulsbo, WA 98370
> Tel: (360) 626-1259
> Fax (360) 626-1260
> E-mail: vid...@videolibrarian.com
> Web: www.videolibrarian.com
>
> *From:* Brian W Boling 
> *Sent:* Friday, December 02, 2016 9:10 AM
> *To:* videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
> *Subject:* Re: [Videolib] 13th and Streaming Distribution w/o
> EducationalAvailability
>
> I agree that the issue of digital-only copies is becoming a critical one
> for libraries, both for us video folks and in music librarianship.
>
> At the VRT Business meeting in Orlando, we learned that a high-level ALA
> group tasked with meeting with streaming content providers was on hold, but
> would likely gain traction again during the ALA Presidency of Jim Neal.
> This high-level group was a subcommittee of the same group that negotiated
> e-book licensing terms with the Big Six--or is it now down to
> Five?--publishers.  I'd volunteered to continue work on this topic in the
> interim, as did several others, but I have not heard additional information
> or requests for help.  Has anyone else who volunteered for this ad hoc VRT
> committee been contacted?
>
> I like the ideas that have been discussed in this thread and would be glad
> to participate in them further.  Still, going on the "strength in numbers"
> principle, it might make sense to also bring in support from the Music
> Libraries Association, big ALA (especially their Office of Information and
> Technology Policy), and other groups besides VRT/NMM that I'm be
> forgetting.  For instance, don't libraries that are under-represented on
> Videolib (K-12, for instance) also face this issue?
>
> I'm glad to see some constructive suggestions for moving forward on this
> issue!
>
> Brian
>
> Brian Boling
> Past-chair, Video Round Table
> Media Services Librarian
> Temple University Libraries
> brian.bol...@temple.edu
> Schedule a meeting during my office hours
> <http://paleystudy.temple.edu/appointment/8617>
>
> Brian Boling
> Media Services Librarian
> Temple University Libraries
> brian.bol...@temple.edu
> Schedule a meeting during my office hours
> <http://paleystudy.temple.edu/appointment/8617>
>
> On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 11:37 AM, meredith miller <
> meredithlynnemil...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I love this idea! I've been pursuing this on individual basis with both
>> Netflix and Amazon. My argument has been that this type of licensing is
>> another potential revenue stream that they are not considering. I think
>> there is a general misunderstanding about the educational licensing market
>> and the value that it has - so I think educating them on who we are and why
>> we are important is crucial.
>>
>> I'm happy to dive into this! I think it would be good to discuss strategy
>> first. Is anyone interested in a conference call early next week?
>>
>> Meredith
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 11:12 AM, Susan Albrecht 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I think these are genius ideas from Meghann.  I especially like the idea
>>> of a joint letter from VRT and NMM and having an “all set” statement with
>>> many signatures ready to attach t

Re: [Videolib] 13th and Streaming Distribution w/o EducationalAvailability

[Nell J Chenault]

This is an issue which the Music Library Association has been trying to
address for several years, with great music being distributed only through
individual online music distribution sources.  They have been looking to
ALA for support with this issue.

Nell Chenault
VCU Libraries



On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 12:51 PM, Jessica Rosner 
wrote:

> I agree that sub licensing is far more likely then them ever agreeing to
> physical copies. I can say from experience that for MOST things Netflix and
> Amazon do not own EDU rights but they almost surely do for series they
> produce and I think for certain films they buy. I have actually had to
> convince some rights holders that they don't own those rights and sure
> enough they check with Netflix/Amazon and find that "closed" educational
> streaming does not conflict with their contract.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 12:44 PM, Randy Pitman 
> wrote:
>
>> This is the big issue and I agree with everything that has been said so
>> far. This was always going to be the dark side of digital—controlled access
>> that made the First Sale Doctrine moot. We will need to find a solution
>> that will work for all libraries—K-12, academic, public, special.
>>
>> Physical copies are still the gold standard but obviously not the future.
>> If Netflix and Amazon balk at creating library-friendly platforms, I wonder
>> whether an option of sublicensing to existing platforms (Alexander Street
>> Press, Films on Demand, hoopla, Kanopy, etc.) would be a viable
>> possibility? Although as Mat from Passion River has just pointed out,
>> Netflix and Amazon may not necessarily hold various rights to titles.
>>
>> We do need to be more vocal—letters, petitions, etc. And NMM 2017 sounds
>> like a great venue for hashing out details.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Randy
>>
>> Randy Pitman
>> Publisher/Editor
>> Video Librarian
>> 3435 NE Nine Boulder Dr.
>> Poulsbo, WA 98370
>> Tel: (360) 626-1259
>> Fax (360) 626-1260
>> E-mail: vid...@videolibrarian.com
>> Web: www.videolibrarian.com
>>
>> *From:* Brian W Boling 
>> *Sent:* Friday, December 02, 2016 9:10 AM
>> *To:* videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
>> *Subject:* Re: [Videolib] 13th and Streaming Distribution w/o
>> EducationalAvailability
>>
>> I agree that the issue of digital-only copies is becoming a critical one
>> for libraries, both for us video folks and in music librarianship.
>>
>> At the VRT Business meeting in Orlando, we learned that a high-level ALA
>> group tasked with meeting with streaming content providers was on hold, but
>> would likely gain traction again during the ALA Presidency of Jim Neal.
>> This high-level group was a subcommittee of the same group that negotiated
>> e-book licensing terms with the Big Six--or is it now down to
>> Five?--publishers.  I'd volunteered to continue work on this topic in the
>> interim, as did several others, but I have not heard additional information
>> or requests for help.  Has anyone else who volunteered for this ad hoc VRT
>> committee been contacted?
>>
>> I like the ideas that have been discussed in this thread and would be
>> glad to participate in them further.  Still, going on the "strength in
>> numbers" principle, it might make sense to also bring in support from the
>> Music Libraries Association, big ALA (especially their Office of
>> Information and Technology Policy), and other groups besides VRT/NMM that
>> I'm be forgetting.  For instance, don't libraries that are
>> under-represented on Videolib (K-12, for instance) also face this issue?
>>
>> I'm glad to see some constructive suggestions for moving forward on this
>> issue!
>>
>> Brian
>>
>> Brian Boling
>> Past-chair, Video Round Table
>> Media Services Librarian
>> Temple University Libraries
>> brian.bol...@temple.edu
>> Schedule a meeting during my office hours
>> <http://paleystudy.temple.edu/appointment/8617>
>>
>> Brian Boling
>> Media Services Librarian
>> Temple University Libraries
>> brian.bol...@temple.edu
>> Schedule a meeting during my office hours
>> <http://paleystudy.temple.edu/appointment/8617>
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 11:37 AM, meredith miller <
>> meredithlynnemil...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I love this idea! I've been pursuing this on individual basis with both
>>> Netflix and Amazon. My argument has been that this type of licensing is
>>> another potential revenue stream that they are not considering.

Re: [Videolib] 13th and Streaming Distribution w/o EducationalAvailability

[John Vallier]

The optimist in me hopes DuVernay’s advocacy for non-profit screenings, and 
Netflix’s apparent agreement to facilitate such use, will kick-start a new .edu 
friendly approach to provide access to restrictively licensed content. However, 
my more realistically grounded experience with trying to negotiate with 
Amazon.com, Universal Music Group, and Apple for .edu access to online-only 
music, gives me reason to doubt a new trend is in the works (e.g., see 
http://bit.ly/1k5QpEZ). I hope I’m wrong. 

I like the idea of working with ALA’s Digital Content & Libraries Working Group 
(DCWG), creators of the “ebook license scorecard.” While they focus on the 
e-book issue, their charge isn’t limited to print. That said, they probably 
won’t focus on audio/video unless we advocate. When ALA Mid-Winter was last in 
Seattle (2013), I went to the DCWG meeting and spoke up about the online-only 
media issue. Carrie Russell (Director, ALA Program on Public Access to 
Information) and Cliff Lynch (CNI) were there, and both (among many others) 
have been very supportive of raising awareness about the issue—-and seeking a 
range of solutions (e.g., not just paying increasingly unaffordable licensing 
costs). 

Erika Linke and Carolyn Anthony are now DCWG co-chairs.  

Do we need our own scorecard for streaming media providers, even if they 
already provide .edu access? 

I’m glad to see so many riled up about this issue. Advocacy leads to change!  

- John 


John Vallier
Head, Distrib Media Svcs
Affl Asst Prof, Ethnomusicology
U of Washington Libraries, Media Lab+Arcade
http://guides.lib.uw.edu/research/vallier





VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.

Re: [Videolib] 13th and Streaming Distribution w/o EducationalAvailability

[Meghann Matwichuk]

Thank you for the additional perspective, John -- and to all who've 
added to this conversation over the past several days.  The blog posting 
you link to 
 
does a great job of outlining what's at stake here, for both video and 
music librarians.  The DCWG feedback is very valuable, too.  I agree 
that there are some really pernicious forces at work here that are not 
likely to dissolve in near future (understatement of the year award?).  
I think many of us are used to dealing with requests on a title-by-title 
basis -- big picture this is overwhelming, but in the title-by-title 
realm, it may be that we can push some awareness / advocacy that 
trickles up.  It's worth at least a solid push, and the feedback of 
other librarians and our vendor colleagues is crucial to the effort.  
Towards that end, Meredith and I are working on details for a conference 
call in the coming days that should give those of us who can attend an 
opportunity to sketch out first steps with, hopefully, an initial 
'product' (advocacy letter?) not far behind.  Stay tuned, all!


Best,

--

Meghann Matwichuk, M.S.
Associate Librarian
Coordinator, Film & Video Collection
Morris Library, University of Delaware
181 S. College Ave.
Newark, DE 19717
(302) 831-1475
https://library.udel.edu/filmandvideo

On 12/3/2016 5:52 PM, John Vallier wrote:

The optimist in me hopes DuVernay’s advocacy for non-profit screenings, and 
Netflix’s apparent agreement to facilitate such use, will kick-start a new .edu 
friendly approach to provide access to restrictively licensed content. However, 
my more realistically grounded experience with trying to negotiate with 
Amazon.com, Universal Music Group, and Apple for .edu access to online-only 
music, gives me reason to doubt a new trend is in the works (e.g., see 
http://bit.ly/1k5QpEZ). I hope I’m wrong.

I like the idea of working with ALA’s Digital Content & Libraries Working Group 
(DCWG), creators of the “ebook license scorecard.” While they focus on the e-book 
issue, their charge isn’t limited to print. That said, they probably won’t focus on 
audio/video unless we advocate. When ALA Mid-Winter was last in Seattle (2013), I 
went to the DCWG meeting and spoke up about the online-only media issue. Carrie 
Russell (Director, ALA Program on Public Access to Information) and Cliff Lynch 
(CNI) were there, and both (among many others) have been very supportive of raising 
awareness about the issue—-and seeking a range of solutions (e.g., not just paying 
increasingly unaffordable licensing costs).

Erika Linke and Carolyn Anthony are now DCWG co-chairs.

Do we need our own scorecard for streaming media providers, even if they 
already provide .edu access?

I’m glad to see so many riled up about this issue. Advocacy leads to change!

- John


John Vallier
Head, Distrib Media Svcs
Affl Asst Prof, Ethnomusicology
U of Washington Libraries, Media Lab+Arcade
http://guides.lib.uw.edu/research/vallier




VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.