Re: [Videolib] License Restriction?
I actually don't have a problem with purchasing an institutional copy. Had they listed the information they sent me in the e-mail on the Amazon site, I likely would have gone to their site and purchased an institutional copy there. However, to tell me this after the item has shipped causes quite a bit of inconvenience on my part to return it via Amazon and purchase it again through their site and delay getting it to the person who requested it. Thanks for confirming what I believed to be the case. Thanks Mark On 9/15/16 1:59 PM, Susan Albrecht wrote: To me, that is perfect, Dennis. It’s clearly spelled out and it doesn’t deny rights libraries and educators have by US law/court case. As I mentioned to a couple of folks off-list, I understand the draw to distribute through Amazon because its reach is so wide and the films are probably much more discoverable. But yeah, the tradeoff is the loss of control over pricing to institutional customers. It *is* sometimes an awkward situation. There are companies like yours and First Run Features, which never seem to mind selling at home use prices because you understand usage needs vary, and that if we don’t need a public performance license or broadcast rights, we prefer not to pay for them. But there are other companies which clearly do not like for college and university purchasers to go with home use. I do defend my right to do so while simultaneously feeling guilty about it. But our budget is stinking small, and I have to maximize those dollars the best I can. (Shameless plug: This is one of the many reasons I love National Media Market! It allows me to preview films so I can ensure I’m purchasing just what I need and the highest quality content. Plus, discounts. J) Susan *From:*videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu [mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] *On Behalf Of *Dennis Doros *Sent:* Thursday, September 15, 2016 1:41 PM *To:* Video Library questions *Subject:* Re: [Videolib] License Restriction? We sell a lot through Amazon and it's amazing how many schools prefer that method because they either they can buy all in one place (most likely) or they are afraid a company won't sell them at home rates if they buy directly. (I suspect there's some of this.) As lovers of libraries, media centers and education, we don't care where you buy from. (Though if someone buys directly from us and the disc is scratched later or doesn't work, we tend to replace it for free. Not so if they buy elsewhere because we never know who the seller is.) What we have done when a college or institution purchases from us at the home video price we add a note: This purchase is for home use only. Classroom use in the US is permitted as per US Copyright Law 110(1): registered class of a non-profit educational institution; not open to anyone outside the class; single class face-to-face with teacher present. Any other use including streaming or public performance is not permitted unless Institutional Rights are licensed from Milestone. No broadcast use is permitted under any circumstance. For further institutional rights, please see our Terms of Service on the Milestone website at http://milestonefilms.com/pages/ordering <http://milestonefilms.com/pages/ordering> We feel it's fair to have the buyer understand their rights while protecting ours. Any thoughts on this? Best regards, Dennis Doros Milestone Film & Video PO Box 128 / Harrington Park, NJ 07640 Phone: 201-767-3117 / Fax: 201-767-3035 / Email: milefi...@gmail.com <mailto:milefi...@gmail.com> www.milestone.film <http://www.milestone.film> JOIN OUR MAILING LIST TODAY! <http://milestonefilms.us3.list-manage1.com/subscribe/post?u=4a0b9e434a9f3e8603c29806e&id=f30d1906e2> Support us on Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/pages/Milestone-Film/22348485426> and Twitter <https://twitter.com/#%21/MilestoneFilms>! On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 12:37 PM, Susan Albrecht <mailto:albre...@wabash.edu>> wrote: I mean no disrespect, but I’m not sure this is actually a legitimate way of restricting usage. There ARE companies who list tiered pricing – including a home use option – on their websites. IF they are the exclusive distributor for the film, then the purchaser understands the options are restricted and s/he will need to decide whether to proceed with the purchase or not at the institutional price. However, once a company elects to use a secondary source - such as Amazon, B&N or Midwest - to sell the home use version, however, then frankly there IS a home use edition out there that libraries can legitimately purchase. Library purchases, when no prior legal restrictions are arranged, DO legally allow for circulation, and the face-to-face teaching exemption allows for instructors to screen the film to
Re: [Videolib] License Restriction?
All, Just want to clarify something about 110(1) in Dennis’ description. The criteria in 110(1) are not quite as rigid/explicit as Dennis notes. It does not say anything about a registered class, but that it must be “in the course of the face to face teaching activities of a non-profit educational institution.” One could certainly understand the “teaching activities of a non-profit educational institution” as being broader than just teaching activities within registered classes (e.g., as part of co- and extracurricular learning - workshops, seminars, study sessions, etc.) but still in a “classroom or similar place devoted to instruction.” It also says nothing about the instructor being present. Just that the performance or display may be by instructors or pupils and be face to face. In today’s active and peer learning environments, one could imagine a scenario where the pupil and instructor roles are more blurred. I’m not advocating splitting hairs in the law to try to justify recreational screenings on campuses, but I do think it is important not to conflate the criteria from 110(1) and 110(2) (which is much more narrow). mb Here is the full text of the law: Notwithstanding the provisions of section 106, the following are not infringements of copyright: (1) performance or display of a work by instructors or pupils in the course of face-to-face teaching activities of a nonprofit educational institution, in a classroom or similar place devoted to instruction, unless, in the case of a motion picture or other audiovisual work, the performance, or the display of individual images, is given by means of a copy that was not lawfully made under this title, and that the person responsible for the performance knew or had reason to believe was not lawfully made; Michael Brewer | Librarian | Head, Research & Learning | (520) 307-2771 | brew...@email.arizona.edu<mailto:brew...@email.arizona.edu> From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu [mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Dennis Doros Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 10:41 AM To: Video Library questions Subject: Re: [Videolib] License Restriction? We sell a lot through Amazon and it's amazing how many schools prefer that method because they either they can buy all in one place (most likely) or they are afraid a company won't sell them at home rates if they buy directly. (I suspect there's some of this.) As lovers of libraries, media centers and education, we don't care where you buy from. (Though if someone buys directly from us and the disc is scratched later or doesn't work, we tend to replace it for free. Not so if they buy elsewhere because we never know who the seller is.) What we have done when a college or institution purchases from us at the home video price we add a note: This purchase is for home use only. Classroom use in the US is permitted as per US Copyright Law 110(1): registered class of a non-profit educational institution; not open to anyone outside the class; single class face-to-face with teacher present. Any other use including streaming or public performance is not permitted unless Institutional Rights are licensed from Milestone. No broadcast use is permitted under any circumstance. For further institutional rights, please see our Terms of Service on the Milestone website at http://milestonefilms.com/pages/ordering We feel it's fair to have the buyer understand their rights while protecting ours. Any thoughts on this? Best regards, Dennis Doros Milestone Film & Video PO Box 128 / Harrington Park, NJ 07640 Phone: 201-767-3117 / Fax: 201-767-3035 / Email: milefi...@gmail.com<mailto:milefi...@gmail.com> www.milestone.film<http://www.milestone.film> JOIN OUR MAILING LIST TODAY!<http://milestonefilms.us3.list-manage1.com/subscribe/post?u=4a0b9e434a9f3e8603c29806e&id=f30d1906e2> Support us on Facebook<http://www.facebook.com/pages/Milestone-Film/22348485426> and Twitter<https://twitter.com/#!/MilestoneFilms>! On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 12:37 PM, Susan Albrecht mailto:albre...@wabash.edu>> wrote: I mean no disrespect, but I’m not sure this is actually a legitimate way of restricting usage. There ARE companies who list tiered pricing – including a home use option – on their websites. IF they are the exclusive distributor for the film, then the purchaser understands the options are restricted and s/he will need to decide whether to proceed with the purchase or not at the institutional price. However, once a company elects to use a secondary source - such as Amazon, B&N or Midwest - to sell the home use version, however, then frankly there IS a home use edition out there that libraries can legitimately purchase. Library purchases, when no prior legal restrictions are arranged, DO legally allow for circulation, and the face-to-face teaching exemption allows for instructor
Re: [Videolib] License Restriction?
To me, that is perfect, Dennis. It’s clearly spelled out and it doesn’t deny rights libraries and educators have by US law/court case. As I mentioned to a couple of folks off-list, I understand the draw to distribute through Amazon because its reach is so wide and the films are probably much more discoverable. But yeah, the tradeoff is the loss of control over pricing to institutional customers. It *is* sometimes an awkward situation. There are companies like yours and First Run Features, which never seem to mind selling at home use prices because you understand usage needs vary, and that if we don’t need a public performance license or broadcast rights, we prefer not to pay for them. But there are other companies which clearly do not like for college and university purchasers to go with home use. I do defend my right to do so while simultaneously feeling guilty about it. But our budget is stinking small, and I have to maximize those dollars the best I can. (Shameless plug: This is one of the many reasons I love National Media Market! It allows me to preview films so I can ensure I’m purchasing just what I need and the highest quality content. Plus, discounts. ☺) Susan From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu [mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Dennis Doros Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 1:41 PM To: Video Library questions Subject: Re: [Videolib] License Restriction? We sell a lot through Amazon and it's amazing how many schools prefer that method because they either they can buy all in one place (most likely) or they are afraid a company won't sell them at home rates if they buy directly. (I suspect there's some of this.) As lovers of libraries, media centers and education, we don't care where you buy from. (Though if someone buys directly from us and the disc is scratched later or doesn't work, we tend to replace it for free. Not so if they buy elsewhere because we never know who the seller is.) What we have done when a college or institution purchases from us at the home video price we add a note: This purchase is for home use only. Classroom use in the US is permitted as per US Copyright Law 110(1): registered class of a non-profit educational institution; not open to anyone outside the class; single class face-to-face with teacher present. Any other use including streaming or public performance is not permitted unless Institutional Rights are licensed from Milestone. No broadcast use is permitted under any circumstance. For further institutional rights, please see our Terms of Service on the Milestone website at http://milestonefilms.com/pages/ordering We feel it's fair to have the buyer understand their rights while protecting ours. Any thoughts on this? Best regards, Dennis Doros Milestone Film & Video PO Box 128 / Harrington Park, NJ 07640 Phone: 201-767-3117 / Fax: 201-767-3035 / Email: milefi...@gmail.com<mailto:milefi...@gmail.com> www.milestone.film<http://www.milestone.film> JOIN OUR MAILING LIST TODAY!<http://milestonefilms.us3.list-manage1.com/subscribe/post?u=4a0b9e434a9f3e8603c29806e&id=f30d1906e2> Support us on Facebook<http://www.facebook.com/pages/Milestone-Film/22348485426> and Twitter<https://twitter.com/#!/MilestoneFilms>! On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 12:37 PM, Susan Albrecht mailto:albre...@wabash.edu>> wrote: I mean no disrespect, but I’m not sure this is actually a legitimate way of restricting usage. There ARE companies who list tiered pricing – including a home use option – on their websites. IF they are the exclusive distributor for the film, then the purchaser understands the options are restricted and s/he will need to decide whether to proceed with the purchase or not at the institutional price. However, once a company elects to use a secondary source - such as Amazon, B&N or Midwest - to sell the home use version, however, then frankly there IS a home use edition out there that libraries can legitimately purchase. Library purchases, when no prior legal restrictions are arranged, DO legally allow for circulation, and the face-to-face teaching exemption allows for instructors to screen the film to their classes. That’s just the way it works. So, if a company really doesn’t want libraries to purchase home use, then it seems to me the company must “force” the secondary company to state the usage restriction prior to sale OR the company needs to retain sole rights to distribute home use DVD so that it can specify a refusal to sell home use to an institutional purchaser. There are those on the list (hi, Anthony!) who always try to purchase an institutional edition, even when home use is available and a legal option, and I say more power to those folks who are committed to that and whose budgets allow for it. For others of us who know that usage will be standard solo checkout or in-class use, and w
Re: [Videolib] License Restriction?
We sell a lot through Amazon and it's amazing how many schools prefer that method because they either they can buy all in one place (most likely) or they are afraid a company won't sell them at home rates if they buy directly. (I suspect there's some of this.) As lovers of libraries, media centers and education, we don't care where you buy from. (Though if someone buys directly from us and the disc is scratched later or doesn't work, we tend to replace it for free. Not so if they buy elsewhere because we never know who the seller is.) What we have done when a college or institution purchases from us at the home video price we add a note: This purchase is for home use only. Classroom use in the US is permitted as per US Copyright Law 110(1): registered class of a non-profit educational institution; not open to anyone outside the class; single class face-to-face with teacher present. Any other use including streaming or public performance is not permitted unless Institutional Rights are licensed from Milestone. No broadcast use is permitted under any circumstance. For further institutional rights, please see our Terms of Service on the Milestone website at http://milestonefilms.com/pages/ordering We feel it's fair to have the buyer understand their rights while protecting ours. Any thoughts on this? Best regards, Dennis Doros Milestone Film & Video PO Box 128 / Harrington Park, NJ 07640 Phone: 201-767-3117 / Fax: 201-767-3035 / Email: milefi...@gmail.com www.milestone.film JOIN OUR MAILING LIST TODAY! <http://milestonefilms.us3.list-manage1.com/subscribe/post?u=4a0b9e434a9f3e8603c29806e&id=f30d1906e2> Support us on Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/pages/Milestone-Film/22348485426> and Twitter <https://twitter.com/#!/MilestoneFilms>! On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 12:37 PM, Susan Albrecht wrote: > I mean no disrespect, but I’m not sure this is actually a legitimate way > of restricting usage. There ARE companies who list tiered pricing – > including a home use option – on their websites. IF they are the exclusive > distributor for the film, then the purchaser understands the options are > restricted and s/he will need to decide whether to proceed with the > purchase or not at the institutional price. However, once a company elects > to use a secondary source - such as Amazon, B&N or Midwest - to sell the > home use version, however, then frankly there IS a home use edition out > there that libraries can legitimately purchase. Library purchases, when no > prior legal restrictions are arranged, DO legally allow for circulation, > and the face-to-face teaching exemption allows for instructors to screen > the film to their classes. That’s just the way it works. So, if a company > really doesn’t want libraries to purchase home use, then it seems to me the > company must “force” the secondary company to state the usage restriction > prior to sale OR the company needs to retain sole rights to distribute home > use DVD so that it can specify a refusal to sell home use to an > institutional purchaser. > > > > There are those on the list (hi, Anthony!) who always try to purchase an > institutional edition, even when home use is available and a legal option, > and I say more power to those folks who are committed to that and whose > budgets allow for it. For others of us who know that usage will be > standard solo checkout or in-class use, and we see a home use copy > available for purchase without restriction, we may well elect to go that > route. > > > > Susan Albrecht > > Graduate Fellowship Advisor > > Library Media Acquisitions Manager > > Wabash College Lilly Library > > 765-361-6216 (acquisitions) / 765-361-6297 (fellowships) > > 765-361-6295 fax > > albre...@wabash.edu > > Twitter: @Wab_Fellowships > > www.facebook.com/wabashcollegelibrary.films > > > > *** > > "If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice." --Neil Peart > > *** > > > > *From:* videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu [mailto:videolib-bounces@ > lists.berkeley.edu] *On Behalf Of *Re:Voir video > *Sent:* Thursday, September 15, 2016 12:24 PM > *To:* videolib@lists.berkeley.edu > *Subject:* Re: [Videolib] License Restriction? > > > > We sell our DVDs on our website and also through Amazon. > > On our website we give the option to buy institutional rights, but Amazon > does not allow this. > > Therefore, when we receive a sales notification from Amazon for an address > at a university we always inquire if this is for school use or home use, > and we ask the institution to purchase the educational rights separately on
Re: [Videolib] License Restriction?
I mean no disrespect, but I'm not sure this is actually a legitimate way of restricting usage. There ARE companies who list tiered pricing - including a home use option - on their websites. IF they are the exclusive distributor for the film, then the purchaser understands the options are restricted and s/he will need to decide whether to proceed with the purchase or not at the institutional price. However, once a company elects to use a secondary source - such as Amazon, B&N or Midwest - to sell the home use version, however, then frankly there IS a home use edition out there that libraries can legitimately purchase. Library purchases, when no prior legal restrictions are arranged, DO legally allow for circulation, and the face-to-face teaching exemption allows for instructors to screen the film to their classes. That's just the way it works. So, if a company really doesn't want libraries to purchase home use, then it seems to me the company must "force" the secondary company to state the usage restriction prior to sale OR the company needs to retain sole rights to distribute home use DVD so that it can specify a refusal to sell home use to an institutional purchaser. There are those on the list (hi, Anthony!) who always try to purchase an institutional edition, even when home use is available and a legal option, and I say more power to those folks who are committed to that and whose budgets allow for it. For others of us who know that usage will be standard solo checkout or in-class use, and we see a home use copy available for purchase without restriction, we may well elect to go that route. Susan Albrecht Graduate Fellowship Advisor Library Media Acquisitions Manager Wabash College Lilly Library 765-361-6216 (acquisitions) / 765-361-6297 (fellowships) 765-361-6295 fax albre...@wabash.edu<mailto:albre...@wabash.edu> Twitter: @Wab_Fellowships www.facebook.com/wabashcollegelibrary.films<http://www.facebook.com/wabashcollegelibrary.films> *** "If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice." --Neil Peart *** From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu [mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Re:Voir video Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 12:24 PM To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu Subject: Re: [Videolib] License Restriction? We sell our DVDs on our website and also through Amazon. On our website we give the option to buy institutional rights, but Amazon does not allow this. Therefore, when we receive a sales notification from Amazon for an address at a university we always inquire if this is for school use or home use, and we ask the institution to purchase the educational rights separately on our website. That's the best we can do since Amazon is no help in these situations. I would assume the publisher in question has agreed to all uses since your DVD came through with no further requests by the seller. -Pip Chodorov http://re-voir.com At 12:10 -0400 15/09/16, Jessica Rosner wrote: We ordered a DVD via Amazon with the intention of using it for classroom/educational purposes only. No lending off campus. There were no license restrictions indicated on the Amazon site for the item. After it shipped I received an e-mail indicating it was for home use only, no educational, library use, etc. When it arrived there is a sticker on the plastic wrap indicating this as well. What are people's opinions about these having the weight of licensing? VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors.
Re: [Videolib] License Restriction?
We sell our DVDs on our website and also through Amazon. On our website we give the option to buy institutional rights, but Amazon does not allow this. Therefore, when we receive a sales notification from Amazon for an address at a university we always inquire if this is for school use or home use, and we ask the institution to purchase the educational rights separately on our website. That's the best we can do since Amazon is no help in these situations. I would assume the publisher in question has agreed to all uses since your DVD came through with no further requests by the seller. -Pip Chodorov http://re-voir.com At 12:10 -0400 15/09/16, Jessica Rosner wrote: We ordered a DVD via Amazon with the intention of using it for classroom/educational purposes only. No lending off campus. There were no license restrictions indicated on the Amazon site for the item. After it shipped I received an e-mail indicating it was for home use only, no educational, library use, etc. When it arrived there is a sticker on the plastic wrap indicating this as well. What are people's opinions about these having the weight of licensing? VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors.
Re: [Videolib] License Restriction?
I¹ve been out of the game for a while, but if I remember correctly, the face to face teaching rule applies. All movies usually come with a warning at the start that says home use only but they can be shown in an official class setting. Cheers jhs On 9/15/16, 8:10 AM, "Mark Gooch" wrote: >We ordered a DVD via Amazon with the intention of using it for >classroom/educational purposes only. No lending off campus. There were >no license restrictions indicated on the Amazon site for the item. >After it shipped I received an e-mail indicating it was for home use >only, no educational, library use, etc. When it arrived there is a >sticker on the plastic wrap indicating this as well. What are people's >opinions about these having the weight of licensing? > >Thanks >Mark > >-- >Mark Gooch >Collection Management & Discovery Services Librarian >The College of Wooster Libraries >1140 Beall Avenue >Wooster, Ohio 44691 >Phone: 330/263-2522 >FAX: 330/263-2253 >mgo...@wooster.edu > > >VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of >issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic >control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in >libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve >as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel >of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video >producers and distributors. VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors.
Re: [Videolib] License Restriction?
Unless you specifically signed ( either on paper or online) an agreement you have every right to use any legally obtained DVD in a class. No I am assuming for this that you plan to use the physical copy as streaming rights would not be included at least for an entire work I don't know the nature of the title ( non fiction, feature etc) but while I understand filmmakers desire to recoup costs and actually survive, you can't basically have your cake and eat it too. You can control how your film is used by tightly regulating sales and insisting on signed agreements ( again an online agreement would be valid but it would require the kind of " I have read and agree " type box check) you can't sell it an then try to dictate how it can be used. This has come up before and I think someone had a kind of proforma polite response letter. Jessica On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 11:10 AM, Mark Gooch wrote: > We ordered a DVD via Amazon with the intention of using it for > classroom/educational purposes only. No lending off campus. There were > no license restrictions indicated on the Amazon site for the item. > After it shipped I received an e-mail indicating it was for home use > only, no educational, library use, etc. When it arrived there is a > sticker on the plastic wrap indicating this as well. What are people's > opinions about these having the weight of licensing? > > Thanks > Mark > > -- > Mark Gooch > Collection Management & Discovery Services Librarian > The College of Wooster Libraries > 1140 Beall Avenue > Wooster, Ohio 44691 > Phone: 330/263-2522 > FAX: 330/263-2253 > mgo...@wooster.edu > > > VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of > issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic > control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in > libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as > an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of > communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video > producers and distributors. > -- Jessica Rosner Media Consultant 224-545-3897 (cell) 212-627-1785 (land line) jessicapros...@gmail.com VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors.
[Videolib] License Restriction?
We ordered a DVD via Amazon with the intention of using it for classroom/educational purposes only. No lending off campus. There were no license restrictions indicated on the Amazon site for the item. After it shipped I received an e-mail indicating it was for home use only, no educational, library use, etc. When it arrived there is a sticker on the plastic wrap indicating this as well. What are people's opinions about these having the weight of licensing? Thanks Mark -- Mark Gooch Collection Management & Discovery Services Librarian The College of Wooster Libraries 1140 Beall Avenue Wooster, Ohio 44691 Phone: 330/263-2522 FAX: 330/263-2253 mgo...@wooster.edu VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors.
