Re: [Videolib] Humor? DVD Licensing

[Jessica Rosner]

Not a lot of sales with those restrictions.
 #2 and 3 are  bizarre mishmosh of various uses.

Also are they selling this title retail or through third party vendors to
individuals? As I posted many times they can restrict a sale by contract
but they can't do it after the fact or reduce rights otherwise acceptable
under 209 & 210 unless they make it explicit at point of sale and control
all sales.

I assume you are taking a pass.

On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 4:21 PM, Bergman, Barbara J <
barbara.berg...@mnsu.edu> wrote:

> Yes, these are the exact words found on the website for a newly released
> DVD. After generously (sarcasm font) granting me classroom screening
> rights, they un-grant PPR in bullet 3, and forbid library lending in bullet
> 4. This is me beating head on desk before contacting them to talk about
> sections 109 & 110 and normal acceptable terms of sale.
>
> "1. The institutional price comes with the license to screen the film for
> audiences, unlike a home video fee which only includes the license to watch
> the film in your home.
>
> 2. Purchase effectively means lease for the life of the DVD. Price
> includes public performance rights for classroom, organizational, or
> library use by the acquiring institution for non-paying audiences only.
>
> 3. Any screenings that are open to the public or where admission is
> charged will result in additional rental fees. Please specify on the order
> form if this applies.
>
> 4. DVD must not leave custody of the licensor, no lending out (from
> library location or otherwise), absolutely no copying.
>
> 5. Proof of institute status required."
>
>
> Barb Bergman | Media Services & Interlibrary Loan Librarian | Minnesota
> State University, Mankato | (507) 389-5945 | barbara.berg...@mnsu.edu
>
>
>
> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
> issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
> control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
> libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as
> an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of
> communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
> producers and distributors.
>
VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.

Re: [Videolib] Humor? DVD Licensing

[Sarah E. McCleskey]

Barb I'm so glad you posted this. Last week I returned a DVD for a refund after 
seeing the licensing terms. The vendor was really unhappy and didn't want to 
give me a refund but thank goodness it worked out. Are people just randomly 
making up their terms??? I think "yes."

Sarah

Sent from my iPad

On Dec 13, 2012, at 4:43 PM, "Jessica Rosner" 
mailto:maddux2...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Not a lot of sales with those restrictions.
 #2 and 3 are  bizarre mishmosh of various uses.

Also are they selling this title retail or through third party vendors to 
individuals? As I posted many times they can restrict a sale by contract but 
they can't do it after the fact or reduce rights otherwise acceptable under 209 
& 210 unless they make it explicit at point of sale and control all sales.

I assume you are taking a pass.

On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 4:21 PM, Bergman, Barbara J 
mailto:barbara.berg...@mnsu.edu>> wrote:
Yes, these are the exact words found on the website for a newly released DVD. 
After generously (sarcasm font) granting me classroom screening rights, they 
un-grant PPR in bullet 3, and forbid library lending in bullet 4. This is me 
beating head on desk before contacting them to talk about sections 109 & 110 
and normal acceptable terms of sale.

"1. The institutional price comes with the license to screen the film for 
audiences, unlike a home video fee which only includes the license to watch the 
film in your home.

2. Purchase effectively means lease for the life of the DVD. Price includes 
public performance rights for classroom, organizational, or library use by the 
acquiring institution for non-paying audiences only.

3. Any screenings that are open to the public or where admission is charged 
will result in additional rental fees. Please specify on the order form if this 
applies.

4. DVD must not leave custody of the licensor, no lending out (from library 
location or otherwise), absolutely no copying.

5. Proof of institute status required."


Barb Bergman | Media Services & Interlibrary Loan Librarian | Minnesota State 
University, Mankato | (507) 389-5945 | 
barbara.berg...@mnsu.edu



VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.

VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.
VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.

Re: [Videolib] Humor? DVD Licensing

[Jessica Rosner]

Slightly OT Sarah but years ago I produced a DVD series of silent films by
women directors (I hope you all have a copy) and it was about the only Kino
title that you could NOT buy retail or through a third party ( an
experiment of sorts) Anyway I sold a copy to a state school in CA and they
insisted before they would pay for it that I sign a statement affirming
Kino was a "drug free environment" I refused on civil liberties grounds
that it was absurd, what next I sign a statement affirming it was a rape
and murder free environment? So I told them to return it if they could not
pay. The librarian actually threatened to report me to state authorities (
as this was some rule of theirs) and get Kino cut off from sales to CA
institutions but she did pay and I never signed the form.

On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 5:03 PM, Sarah E. McCleskey <
sarah.e.mccles...@hofstra.edu> wrote:

>  Barb I'm so glad you posted this. Last week I returned a DVD for a
> refund after seeing the licensing terms. The vendor was really unhappy and
> didn't want to give me a refund but thank goodness it worked out. Are
> people just randomly making up their terms??? I think "yes."
>
>  Sarah
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Dec 13, 2012, at 4:43 PM, "Jessica Rosner" 
> wrote:
>
>  Not a lot of sales with those restrictions.
>  #2 and 3 are  bizarre mishmosh of various uses.
>
> Also are they selling this title retail or through third party vendors to
> individuals? As I posted many times they can restrict a sale by contract
> but they can't do it after the fact or reduce rights otherwise acceptable
> under 209 & 210 unless they make it explicit at point of sale and control
> all sales.
>
> I assume you are taking a pass.
>
> On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 4:21 PM, Bergman, Barbara J <
> barbara.berg...@mnsu.edu> wrote:
>
>> Yes, these are the exact words found on the website for a newly released
>> DVD. After generously (sarcasm font) granting me classroom screening
>> rights, they un-grant PPR in bullet 3, and forbid library lending in bullet
>> 4. This is me beating head on desk before contacting them to talk about
>> sections 109 & 110 and normal acceptable terms of sale.
>>
>> "1. The institutional price comes with the license to screen the film for
>> audiences, unlike a home video fee which only includes the license to watch
>> the film in your home.
>>
>> 2. Purchase effectively means lease for the life of the DVD. Price
>> includes public performance rights for classroom, organizational, or
>> library use by the acquiring institution for non-paying audiences only.
>>
>> 3. Any screenings that are open to the public or where admission is
>> charged will result in additional rental fees. Please specify on the order
>> form if this applies.
>>
>> 4. DVD must not leave custody of the licensor, no lending out (from
>> library location or otherwise), absolutely no copying.
>>
>> 5. Proof of institute status required."
>>
>>
>> Barb Bergman | Media Services & Interlibrary Loan Librarian | Minnesota
>> State University, Mankato | (507) 389-5945 | barbara.berg...@mnsu.edu
>>
>>
>>
>> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
>> issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
>> control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
>> libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as
>> an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of
>> communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
>> producers and distributors.
>>
>
>   VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
> issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
> control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
> libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as
> an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of
> communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
> producers and distributors.
>
>
> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
> issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
> control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
> libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as
> an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of
> communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
> producers and distributors.
>
>
VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.

Re: [Videolib] Humor? DVD Licensing

[Deg Farrelly]

Though Barbara doesn't mention the title of the video, pasting the license
terms into Google quickly returned the link to the vendor.

My immediate reactionŠ. What is there in this film that is not already
covered in a number of other videos, particularly the Media Education
Foundation titles Sext up Kids and Price of Pleasure or the CBC title also
distributed by FMG:  Buying into Sexy.

Not questioning Barb on the selection of the titleŠ I think it's
interesting too.  But if distributors make it too difficult for usŠ. Often
there is comparable alternative content available.

-deg

deg farrelly, Media Librarian
Arizona State University Libraries
Hayden Library C1H1
P.O. Box 871006
Tempe, Arizona  85287-1006
Phone:  602.332.3103






On 12/13/12 3:14 PM, "videolib-requ...@lists.berkeley.edu"
 wrote:

>
>Yes, these are the exact words found on the website for a newly released
>DVD. After generously (sarcasm font) granting me classroom screening
>rights, they un-grant PPR in bullet 3, and forbid library lending in
>bullet 4. This is me beating head on desk before contacting them to talk
>about sections 109 & 110 and normal acceptable terms of sale.


VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.

Re: [Videolib] Humor? DVD Licensing

[Bergman, Barbara J]

Title and its content wasn't my point. The film was requested by the Women's 
Center because they'll like to do a campus screening. I've warned her that they 
may need to pick something else. 

I'm guessing filmmaker is trying to do everything independently instead of 
going through one of our fine distributors and they doesn't understand that 
library DVD sales are different than theatrical distribution. We'll see...
Barb



VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.

Re: [Videolib] Humor? DVD Licensing

[Jessica Rosner]

Now I am a bit more confused. The director was not willing to sell you a
copy with "REAL" PPR rights for a reasonable fee? What fee did they want
for purchase with rights to show on campus or did they have one?

On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 6:25 PM, Bergman, Barbara J <
barbara.berg...@mnsu.edu> wrote:

> Title and its content wasn't my point. The film was requested by the
> Women's Center because they'll like to do a campus screening. I've warned
> her that they may need to pick something else.
>
> I'm guessing filmmaker is trying to do everything independently instead of
> going through one of our fine distributors and they doesn't understand that
> library DVD sales are different than theatrical distribution. We'll see...
> Barb
>
>
>
> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
> issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
> control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
> libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as
> an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of
> communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
> producers and distributors.
>
VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.

Re: [Videolib] Humor? DVD Licensing

[Meghann Matwichuk]

Aaaand I think we're all about to get more requests for this title -- 
looks like they have a good publicity push behind the film:


http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2012/12/14/sexy_baby_a_new_documentary_explores_sex_and_the_internet.html

I've found that one of the more challenging parts of my job can be to 
get an instructor to shift focus once they've decided on a film. If they 
get a title in their head, they tend to want that and only that -- even 
if there are equal or even better alternatives.   I'm hoping that after 
this independent distributor starts to hear from more and more potential 
customers explaining why these terms make no sense and they can't buy 
the dvd, they'll revise them.


Best,

*
Meghann Matwichuk, M.S.
Associate Librarian
Film and Video Collection Department
Morris Library, University of Delaware
181 S. College Ave.
Newark, DE 19717
(302) 831-1475
http://www.lib.udel.edu/filmandvideo


On 12/13/2012 6:25 PM, Bergman, Barbara J wrote:

Title and its content wasn't my point. The film was requested by the Women's 
Center because they'll like to do a campus screening. I've warned her that they 
may need to pick something else.

I'm guessing filmmaker is trying to do everything independently instead of 
going through one of our fine distributors and they doesn't understand that 
library DVD sales are different than theatrical distribution. We'll see...
Barb



VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.


VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.

Re: [Videolib] Humor? DVD Licensing

[Jessica Rosner]

You could tell them to watch it on HULU?

On Fri, Dec 14, 2012 at 10:37 AM, Meghann Matwichuk  wrote:

>  Aaaand I think we're all about to get more requests for this title --
> looks like they have a good publicity push behind the film:
>
>
> http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2012/12/14/sexy_baby_a_new_documentary_explores_sex_and_the_internet.html
>
> I've found that one of the more challenging parts of my job can be to get
> an instructor to shift focus once they've decided on a film.  If they get a
> title in their head, they tend to want that and only that -- even if there
> are equal or even better alternatives.   I'm hoping that after this
> independent distributor starts to hear from more and more potential
> customers explaining why these terms make no sense and they can't buy the
> dvd, they'll revise them.
>
> Best,
>
> *
> Meghann Matwichuk, M.S.
> Associate Librarian
> Film and Video Collection Department
> Morris Library, University of Delaware
> 181 S. College Ave.
> Newark, DE 19717
> (302) 831-1475
> http://www.lib.udel.edu/filmandvideo
>
>
> On 12/13/2012 6:25 PM, Bergman, Barbara J wrote:
>
> Title and its content wasn't my point. The film was requested by the Women's 
> Center because they'll like to do a campus screening. I've warned her that 
> they may need to pick something else.
>
> I'm guessing filmmaker is trying to do everything independently instead of 
> going through one of our fine distributors and they doesn't understand that 
> library DVD sales are different than theatrical distribution. We'll see...
> Barb
>
>
>
> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
> relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
> preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
> related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
> working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
> between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
> distributors.
>
>
>
> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
> issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
> control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
> libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as
> an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of
> communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
> producers and distributors.
>
>
VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.

Re: [Videolib] Humor? DVD Licensing

[Bergman, Barbara J]

Follow-up: I talked with the filmmaker and clarified their intentions. All is 
good now. As I suspected, they just really haven't done DVD sales to libraries 
before.
~Barb

VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.

Re: [Videolib] Humor? DVD Licensing

[Jessica Rosner]

I kind of suspected that too. The language was kind of like a mixed up cut
and paste. Glad it worked out.

On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 5:29 PM, Bergman, Barbara J <
barbara.berg...@mnsu.edu> wrote:

>  Follow-up: I talked with the filmmaker and clarified their intentions.
> All is good now. As I suspected, they just really haven’t done DVD sales to
> libraries before.
>
> ~Barb
>
> ** **
>
> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
> issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
> control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
> libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as
> an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of
> communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
> producers and distributors.
>
>
VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.

Re: [Videolib] Humor? DVD Licensing

[Sarah E. McCleskey]

Barb, were they willing to alter the license terms?

Sent from my iPad

On Dec 17, 2012, at 5:38 PM, "Bergman, Barbara J" 
mailto:barbara.berg...@mnsu.edu>> wrote:

Follow-up: I talked with the filmmaker and clarified their intentions. All is 
good now. As I suspected, they just really haven’t done DVD sales to libraries 
before.
~Barb

VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.
VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.