[VIHUELA] Re: What is the historical vihuela?
--- Alexander Batov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Corrubias (1611) sums it up rather neatly as the guitar is a vihuela, small in size and also of less strings, since it has no more than five and sometimes only four. there's quite a lot in your answer - but for now, thanks heaps for the above. - bill and thus i made...a small vihuela from the shell of a creepy crawly... - Don Gonzalo de Guerrero (1512), Historias de la Conquista del Mayab by Fra Joseph of San Buenaventura. go to: http://www.charango.cl/paginas/quieninvento.htm ___ How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos http://uk.photos.yahoo.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] Re: What is the historical vihuela?
At 05:07 PM 11/1/2005, bill kilpatrick wrote: --- Alexander Batov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Corrubias (1611) sums it up rather neatly as the guitar is a vihuela, small in size and also of less strings, since it has no more than five and sometimes only four. there's quite a lot in your answer - but for now, thanks heaps for the above. This quote, of course, is a very late perception in the life of the 16th c. (and a little beyond) vihuela, and I'm pretty certain it's been cited here before, Bill. I believe there was a more clear distinction between the two concepts early on, before burgeoning guitar popularity began to swallow up the concept of vihuela. Best, Eugene To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] Playing with passion
Got hold of Antonio Corona's excellent PhD thesis, which contains nearly 300 quotations (with translation into English) of citations for vihuela, guitar and lute from 15th to 17th-century Spanish literature. Here are a few of my favourites: Now of my sweet instrument each string is a garrote, and, instead of a vihuela, it is a rack to torture... Luis de Gongora y Argote, 1595 (?) ...when the night came, tortured by the usual melancholy of my thoughts, taking a vihuela, I went out by a back door to the fields, to put aside my worries, and to enjoy the fresh wind that was blowing... Rojas, 1603 ...he threw them into the fire with the greatest sobs and tears that could be described, and with that he arose taking up the vihuela, and with the consumate skill that he had in playing and singing, he sang this copla: Ardan mis tristes membranzas [...] And when he had finished singing the copla, he threw his vihuela into the fire... Anon, 16th century With all this passion going on, no wonder the authorities clamped down onit: ...after the curfew bell, or, if there was no bell, after 9 o'clock, even though the sun might not have set, any person who was found with a vihuela or another musical instrument should be taken prisoner, and should lose his vihuela, weapons and dress, except, of course, in the case of weddings or feasts with a large number of people, well-lit with torches and candles. Decree of Alfonso V, 1459 Ah, the good old days.. Rob MacKillop www.musicintime.co.uk To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] Re: vaulted/fluted back
On Wednesday, October 26, 2005 8:24 PM bill kilpatrick wrote: i merely guess ... you know. I know you do. but i would have thought that the wooden bowl was one of the first instrument sound chambers (drums, hollow logs, etc.). No doubt that most traditional instruments were made like this. presumably, a thin bowl would resonate better than a thick one and undulating ribs would add strength to the structure - and beauty. great care is taken with the carving of charangos to get it right. In properly established traditions of musical instrument making there is no place for things that simply don't work. A resonating chamber bowl can have either thin or thick walls (whether it is carved or build-up), it all depends what it makes as a whole. And one can't transfer a carved body features directly to a build-up type. I very much doubt if undulating ribs can add strenth to a carved type of body, while for the build-up construction this can be rather crutial. i'm sorry, what experiment? To your initial query: does the vaulted, fluted back of the vihuela serve any purpose other than bellezza? On Tuesday, October 18, 2005 8:22 PM I answered this: The best way to answer this question would be to construct two vihuelas (one with a vaulted and the other with a fluted back) that would have to have identical string lengths and body / soundboard parameters (i.e. equal air volumes enclosed in their bodies, closely matched soundboard material, soundboard thickness and rose design etc). I was thinking of conducting such experiment myself but the motivation have not yet reached a desired level. Anybody fancies a sponsorship ... :) ...? Perhaps after the olive season is over ... Sorry for the repeat. just out of curiosity - have you ever carved an instrument from a solid piece of wood? i'm negotiating with someone in mexico at the moment for a jarana. I atually did but it was a simple one, in fact a copy of the 12th century psaltery-like seven-string instrument that was excavated in the ancient city of Novgorod in Russia (a very beautiful place by the way). It's a sort of blend between Chinese Guqin and Welsh Crwth ... Alexander www.vihuelademano.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] Re: What is the historical vihuela?
Here are a couple of late quotes from Corona's thesis: Vihuela or lute, they are the same although not in the shape, whether they are of four, five, six or more courses Mateo Aleman, Ortografia castellana (Mexico City, 1609) Vihuela fn. Stringed musical instrument which according to Covarrubias was the lyre of antiquity, but today it commonly means the same as the guitar Diccionario de Autoridades, Madrid 1726-39 In other words, a vihuela is both a lute and a guitar. Take your pick - or fingers. Seriously, If Alexander is saying (and I may have misunderstood him) that the vihuela and the guitar are one and the same, is Fuenllana's 5c vihuela music (in baroque guitar tuning) the earliest 5c guitar music? And should it therefore be played on a 5c guitar? [I am avoiding using the term 'baroque guitar' as the word 'baroque' is misleading and is of course a modern name, which should be dropped from the nomenclature.] If you were to make a 5c vihuela, Alexander, how might it differ from a 5c guitar? I'm not trying to catch you out - I am still a wee bit confused. Rob To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] vihuela and viola
vihuela and viola Today, the 16th century Spanish vihuela tends to almost completely eclipse the Italian viola. Some (not uncontroversial) vihuelas actually survive and, of course, theres a distinctive body of music composed for the vihuela, starting with Milans publication in 1536. On the other hand, no violas survive - but there are representations of them and they are sometimes specified in Italian tablatures (for lute or viola). According to Tyler, the so-called Bottegari lute book (1574) is really for the viola. There are depictions of violas back into the late 15th century and even some fragments of music in tablature from that time. There seem to be at least two kinds of viola. One is only very slightly waisted with a sickle-shaped pegbox. Stephen Barber and Sandy Harris make a reproduction of one - no.9 on this page: http://www.lutesandguitars.co.uk/htm/cat12.htm Obviously Barber and Harris are much more interested in the vihuela than the viola. But theres another kind of viola with deeply incurved sides. This kind of viola looks very like its bowed counterpart. I recently came across this reproduction of an instrument from c1520. http://www.anselmus.ch/fr/guitares/guitare_general.htm#signet_01 Although bowed violas and plucked violas look superficially similar, I would expect they are significantly different in construction(?) The bowed violas have a tail piece, and, at least sometimes, have a visibly curved bridge. The plucked violas Ive seen all have the players arm and hand obscuring details of bridge or tail piece. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] Re: What is the historical vihuela?
Hi Rob, I'd suggest that in 1609, whether in Mexico or Spain itself, the term vihuela still haeld a primary association with the high art, lute-like repertoire of the Spanish Golden Age, while by 1730, the term had returned to one of its more generic meanings (although in Portugal at that time, as still today in Brazil, the term viola seems to have been associated particularly with what we would call the guitar). Stanley On 11/1/05 4:43 PM, Rob MacKillop [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here are a couple of late quotes from Corona's thesis: Vihuela or lute, they are the same although not in the shape, whether they are of four, five, six or more courses Mateo Aleman, Ortografia castellana (Mexico City, 1609) Vihuela fn. Stringed musical instrument which according to Covarrubias was the lyre of antiquity, but today it commonly means the same as the guitar Diccionario de Autoridades, Madrid 1726-39 In other words, a vihuela is both a lute and a guitar. Take your pick - or fingers. Seriously, If Alexander is saying (and I may have misunderstood him) that the vihuela and the guitar are one and the same, is Fuenllana's 5c vihuela music (in baroque guitar tuning) the earliest 5c guitar music? And should it therefore be played on a 5c guitar? [I am avoiding using the term 'baroque guitar' as the word 'baroque' is misleading and is of course a modern name, which should be dropped from the nomenclature.] If you were to make a 5c vihuela, Alexander, how might it differ from a 5c guitar? I'm not trying to catch you out - I am still a wee bit confused. Rob To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] Re: What is the historical vihuela?
On Tuesday, November 01, 2005 10:43 PM Rob MacKillop wrote: Seriously, If Alexander is saying (and I may have misunderstood him) that the vihuela and the guitar are one and the same, is Fuenllana's 5c vihuela music (in baroque guitar tuning) the earliest 5c guitar music? Can't see why not. Acoustically the vihuela and the guitar at that particular time were serving the same purpose (i.e. were both used for playing polyphonic music). In fact as it was the case with the four-course guitar. I don't think there is anything new in this. And should it therefore be played on a 5c guitar? [I am avoiding using the term 'baroque guitar' as the word 'baroque' is misleading and is of course a modern name, which should be dropped from the nomenclature.] If you were to make a 5c vihuela, Alexander, how might it differ from a 5c guitar? I'm not trying to catch you out - I am still a wee bit confused. This is where, as I see it, the crucial difference between the two guitars occurs. The early 17th century 5-course guitar is a strummed instrument with a larger size body volume (as it indeed appears on its earliest representations, such as Lionello Spada's painting c.1615) while its earlier predecessor (for the music of Fuenllana for instance) could have had shallower body (much in lines with the Dias). The lower body volume allows to shift the frequency response towards the mid-range of the instrument, thus making it more suitable for polyphonic music where clear voice leading is essential. This is of course my speculation (with only one historical instrument surviving - the Dias) but there is also vihuela's earlier companion - the viola da mano that seems to have had a rather shallow body and this might have been transferred on to the vihuela (whether in its five- or six-course configuration). Alexander www.vihuelademano.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] Re: What is the historical vihuela?
) but there is also vihuela's earlier companion - the viola da mano that seems to have had a rather shallow body and this might have been transferred on to the vihuela (whether in its five- or six-course configuration). http://www.anselmus.ch/images/icon_dai_libri.jpg This isn't so shallow. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] Re: vihuela and viola
The weakest point in any of the two ways of the viola da mano reconstruction
that you mention is that we have absolutely no idea (because of lack of
surviving instruments) what sort of barring arrangement the original
instruments had. And this is a major set back whichever external shape is
chosen for the reconstruction.
Alexander
www.vihuelademano.com
- Original Message -
From: Stuart Walsh [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 9:59 PM
Subject: [VIHUELA] vihuela and viola
vihuela and viola
Today, the 16th century Spanish vihuela tends to almost completely
eclipse the Italian viola. Some (not uncontroversial) vihuelas actually
survive and, of course, there's a distinctive body of music composed for
the vihuela, starting with Milan's publication in 1536.
On the other hand, no violas survive - but there are representations of
them and they are sometimes specified in Italian tablatures ('for lute
or viola'). According to Tyler, the so-called Bottegari lute book (1574)
is really for the viola. There are depictions of violas back into the
late 15th century and even some fragments of music in tablature from
that time.
There seem to be at least two kinds of viola. One is only very slightly
waisted with a sickle-shaped pegbox. Stephen Barber and Sandy Harris
make a reproduction of one - no.9 on this page:
http://www.lutesandguitars.co.uk/htm/cat12.htm
Obviously Barber and Harris are much more interested in the vihuela than
the viola.
But there's another kind of viola with deeply incurved sides. This kind
of viola looks very like its bowed counterpart. I recently came across
this reproduction of an instrument from c1520.
http://www.anselmus.ch/fr/guitares/guitare_general.htm#signet_01
Although bowed violas and plucked violas look superficially similar, I
would expect they are significantly different in construction(?) The
bowed violas have a tail piece, and, at least sometimes, have a visibly
curved bridge. The plucked violas I've seen all have the player's arm
and hand obscuring details of bridge or tail piece.
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
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