[VIHUELA] Re: Any b-guitar repertoire in all re-entrant accepted by all?
In my experience, I would say nearly all Sanz definitely *works* with fully re-entrant tuning. I find only one fugue that gives me any problems... Every other piece I have tried so far sounds absolutely great, and makes perfect sense in a fully re-entrant tuning. It takes a little getting used to... Probably the most difficult pieces to play are the ones you have played previously on a modern guitar. The logic of the pieces may prove to be different than you initially thought. But for all that, the logic is generally consistent... Except that one darned fugue! cud __ From: Stuart Walsh s.wa...@ntlworld.com To: wikla wi...@cs.helsinki.fi Cc: vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sat, November 20, 2010 5:29:16 PM Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Any b-guitar repertoire in all re-entrant accepted by all? Dear flat-back lutenists, is there any repertoire/composer of baroque guitar that/who without any modern disagreement definitely used the double re-entrant tuning - the 5th and 4th having only in the upper octaves? De Visee perhaps? An interesting question. I'd like to see a list too. And a more contested list of what may well be music for this tuning, but not actually specified. I think these are definitely for the fully re-entrant tuning: Valdambrini Carre some (?) Sanz and? Stuart To a theorbist with two top strings lowered an octave that setting sounds really interesting - the opposite way of putting the fingerboard strings sound a lot in the same octave! In a therbo in a from A to b, in b-guitar in e from g to e'. In this interesting light just considering of getting a b-guitar... :) Arto To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] Re: Any b-guitar repertoire in all re-entrant accepted by all?
Which fugue is it? Monica - Original Message - From: Chris Despopoulos despopoulos_chr...@yahoo.com To: wikla wi...@cs.helsinki.fi Cc: vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 3:54 PM Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Any b-guitar repertoire in all re-entrant accepted by all? In my experience, I would say nearly all Sanz definitely *works* with fully re-entrant tuning. I find only one fugue that gives me any problems... Every other piece I have tried so far sounds absolutely great, and makes perfect sense in a fully re-entrant tuning. It takes a little getting used to... Probably the most difficult pieces to play are the ones you have played previously on a modern guitar. The logic of the pieces may prove to be different than you initially thought. But for all that, the logic is generally consistent... Except that one darned fugue! cud __ From: Stuart Walsh s.wa...@ntlworld.com To: wikla wi...@cs.helsinki.fi Cc: vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sat, November 20, 2010 5:29:16 PM Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Any b-guitar repertoire in all re-entrant accepted by all? Dear flat-back lutenists, is there any repertoire/composer of baroque guitar that/who without any modern disagreement definitely used the double re-entrant tuning - the 5th and 4th having only in the upper octaves? De Visee perhaps? An interesting question. I'd like to see a list too. And a more contested list of what may well be music for this tuning, but not actually specified. I think these are definitely for the fully re-entrant tuning: Valdambrini Carre some (?) Sanz and? Stuart To a theorbist with two top strings lowered an octave that setting sounds really interesting - the opposite way of putting the fingerboard strings sound a lot in the same octave! In a therbo in a from A to b, in b-guitar in e from g to e'. In this interesting light just considering of getting a b-guitar... :) Arto To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] Re: Any b-guitar repertoire in all re-entrant accepted by all?
Fuga Primera, por primer Tono al ayre Espanyol, the open G string in measures (counting from the tablaltura, and not counting the notated theme): 5 19 23 25 (Note the open G in 24 is not a problem, even though its leading is very similar) In these cases, I simply cannot hear a logical leading into the lower G... to my ear it desperately wants the upper octave G. I can play that upper octave on the E string, but that's not how it's written. There are other instances of ambiguous leading in this piece (and many others) where either octave could make sense. In those cases the lower octave is not a problem for me, and I find a careful emphasis makes those notes settle perfectly well into the piece. But these cited cases just don't work for me, no matter how hard I try to hear it. So far this is the only piece that troubles me in the Sanz books. But it really troubles me... I love it and want to fully understand it. Some people have suggested there's evidence that Sanz approved of and possibly used an octave-strung G course. I'm not convinced -- Anyway, that just pushes the whole issue onto another course and really doesn't help solve this raging argument about stringing/playing the guitar. Any advice you can offer on this piece is quite welcome! Cheers cud __ From: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk To: Chris Despopoulos despopoulos_chr...@yahoo.com Cc: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Mon, November 22, 2010 11:29:50 AM Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Any b-guitar repertoire in all re-entrant accepted by all? Which fugue is it? Monica - Original Message - From: Chris Despopoulos [1]despopoulos_chr...@yahoo.com To: wikla [2]wi...@cs.helsinki.fi Cc: [3]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 3:54 PM Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Any b-guitar repertoire in all re-entrant accepted by all? In my experience, I would say nearly all Sanz definitely *works* with fully re-entrant tuning. I find only one fugue that gives me any problems... Every other piece I have tried so far sounds absolutely great, and makes perfect sense in a fully re-entrant tuning. It takes a little getting used to... Probably the most difficult pieces to play are the ones you have played previously on a modern guitar. The logic of the pieces may prove to be different than you initially thought. But for all that, the logic is generally consistent... Except that one darned fugue! cud __ From: Stuart Walsh [4]s.wa...@ntlworld.com To: wikla [5]wi...@cs.helsinki.fi Cc: [6]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sat, November 20, 2010 5:29:16 PM Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Any b-guitar repertoire in all re-entrant accepted by all? Dear flat-back lutenists, is there any repertoire/composer of baroque guitar that/who without any modern disagreement definitely used the double re-entrant tuning - the 5th and 4th having only in the upper octaves? De Visee perhaps? An interesting question. I'd like to see a list too. And a more contested list of what may well be music for this tuning, but not actually specified. I think these are definitely for the fully re-entrant tuning: Valdambrini Carre some (?) Sanz and? Stuart To a theorbist with two top strings lowered an octave that setting sounds really interesting - the opposite way of putting the fingerboard strings sound a lot in the same octave! In a therbo in a from A to b, in b-guitar in e from g to e'. In this interesting light just considering of getting a b-guitar... :) Arto To get on or off this list see list information at [1][7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. [8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:despopoulos_chr...@yahoo.com 2. mailto:wi...@cs.helsinki.fi 3. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. mailto:s.wa...@ntlworld.com 5. mailto:wi...@cs.helsinki.fi 6. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu 7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html 8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] Re: Any b-guitar repertoire in all re-entrant accepted by all?
That is why some people do argue that octave stringing on the 3rd course is intended. Gordon Ferries plays it on his CD with the re-entrant tuning. It works after a fashion but it is not the best track. I think the point is that Sanz doesn't explicitly say that all his music is intended to be played with the re-entrant tuning. All he really doing is generally saying which tuning he thinks works best for which type of music. I think you can exercise a bit of discretion in these matters. Monica - Original Message - From: [1]Chris Despopoulos To: [2]Monica Hall Cc: [3]Vihuelalist Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 5:18 PM Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Any b-guitar repertoire in all re-entrant accepted by all? Fuga Primera, por primer Tono al ayre Espanyol, the open G string in measures (counting from the tablaltura, and not counting the notated theme): 5 19 23 25 (Note the open G in 24 is not a problem, even though its leading is very similar) In these cases, I simply cannot hear a logical leading into the lower G... to my ear it desperately wants the upper octave G. I can play that upper octave on the E string, but that's not how it's written. There are other instances of ambiguous leading in this piece (and many others) where either octave could make sense. In those cases the lower octave is not a problem for me, and I find a careful emphasis makes those notes settle perfectly well into the piece. But these cited cases just don't work for me, no matter how hard I try to hear it. So far this is the only piece that troubles me in the Sanz books. But it really troubles me... I love it and want to fully understand it. Some people have suggested there's evidence that Sanz approved of and possibly used an octave-strung G course. I'm not convinced -- Anyway, that just pushes the whole issue onto another course and really doesn't help solve this raging argument about stringing/playing the guitar. Any advice you can offer on this piece is quite welcome! Cheers cud __ From: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk To: Chris Despopoulos despopoulos_chr...@yahoo.com Cc: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Mon, November 22, 2010 11:29:50 AM Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Any b-guitar repertoire in all re-entrant accepted by all? Which fugue is it? Monica - Original Message - From: Chris Despopoulos [4]despopoulos_chr...@yahoo.com To: wikla [5]wi...@cs.helsinki.fi Cc: [6]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 3:54 PM Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Any b-guitar repertoire in all re-entrant accepted by all? In my experience, I would say nearly all Sanz definitely *works* with fully re-entrant tuning. I find only one fugue that gives me any problems... Every other piece I have tried so far sounds absolutely great, and makes perfect sense in a fully re-entrant tuning. It takes a little getting used to... Probably the most difficult pieces to play are the ones you have played previously on a modern guitar. The logic of the pieces may prove to be different than you initially thought. But for all that, the logic is generally consistent... Except that one darned fugue! cud __ From: Stuart Walsh [7]s.wa...@ntlworld.com To: wikla [8]wi...@cs.helsinki.fi Cc: [9]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sat, November 20, 2010 5:29:16 PM Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Any b-guitar repertoire in all re-entrant accepted by all? Dear flat-back lutenists, is there any repertoire/composer of baroque guitar that/who without any modern disagreement definitely used the double re-entrant tuning - the 5th and 4th having only in the upper octaves? De Visee perhaps? An interesting question. I'd like to see a list too. And a more contested list of what may well be music for this tuning, but not actually specified. I think these are definitely for the fully re-entrant tuning: Valdambrini Carre some (?) Sanz and? Stuart To a theorbist with two top strings lowered an octave that setting sounds really interesting - the opposite way of putting the fingerboard strings sound a lot in the same octave! In a therbo in a from A to b, in b-guitar in e from g to e'. In this interesting light just considering of getting a b-guitar... :) Arto To get on or off this list see list information at [1][10]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1.
[VIHUELA] Re: Info G.P. Foscarini
i? It seems someone has made a CD of Foscarini - on the RaumKlang label. I have ordered a copy (how could I not). Has anyone heard it. I listened to a bit of it. Jazzed up with heavy metal but I though it might help me sort out the rhythm of some of the pieces that are not yet done. This is the amazon link [1]http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bon-Voyage-Foscarni-Experience/dp/B0044EVPYS /ref=pd_rhf_p_img_1 but if you just put in Foscarni (sic) Experience you will get various dealers. Enjoy Monica -- References 1. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bon-Voyage-Foscarni-Experience/dp/B0044EVPYS/ref=pd_rhf_p_img_1 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] Re: Any b-guitar repertoire in all re-entrant accepted by all?
Thanks for the blessing of sorts... discretion being in the eye of the beholder and all that. Well then, I think it's either put a bordon on the D string, or sneak the upper octave G into my fingering for those passages. It's not a technical problem to accomplish either. What strikes me as so odd is that this is the only Sanz piece I found so far that causes any serious problems. I did play for a real Baroque guitarist (as opposed to myself -- an amateur) who suggested I try the French stringing, and who echoed your statement that Sanz is not writing anything in stone about stringing the instrument. But in general I like having the G as the lowest note for this music. cud __ From: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk To: Chris Despopoulos despopoulos_chr...@yahoo.com Cc: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Mon, November 22, 2010 2:22:36 PM Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Any b-guitar repertoire in all re-entrant accepted by all? That is why some people do argue that octave stringing on the 3rd course is intended. Gordon Ferries plays it on his CD with the re-entrant tuning. It works after a fashion but it is not the best track. I think the point is that Sanz doesn't explicitly say that all his music is intended to be played with the re-entrant tuning. All he really doing is generally saying which tuning he thinks works best for which type of music. I think you can exercise a bit of discretion in these matters. Monica - Original Message - From: [1]Chris Despopoulos To: [2]Monica Hall Cc: [3]Vihuelalist Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 5:18 PM Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Any b-guitar repertoire in all re-entrant accepted by all? Fuga Primera, por primer Tono al ayre Espanyol, the open G string in measures (counting from the tablaltura, and not counting the notated theme): 5 19 23 25 (Note the open G in 24 is not a problem, even though its leading is very similar) In these cases, I simply cannot hear a logical leading into the lower G... to my ear it desperately wants the upper octave G. I can play that upper octave on the E string, but that's not how it's written. There are other instances of ambiguous leading in this piece (and many others) where either octave could make sense. In those cases the lower octave is not a problem for me, and I find a careful emphasis makes those notes settle perfectly well into the piece. But these cited cases just don't work for me, no matter how hard I try to hear it. So far this is the only piece that troubles me in the Sanz books. But it really troubles me... I love it and want to fully understand it. Some people have suggested there's evidence that Sanz approved of and possibly used an octave-strung G course. I'm not convinced -- Anyway, that just pushes the whole issue onto another course and really doesn't help solve this raging argument about stringing/playing the guitar. Any advice you can offer on this piece is quite welcome! Cheers cud __ From: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk To: Chris Despopoulos despopoulos_chr...@yahoo.com Cc: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Mon, November 22, 2010 11:29:50 AM Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Any b-guitar repertoire in all re-entrant accepted by all? Which fugue is it? Monica - Original Message - From: Chris Despopoulos [4]despopoulos_chr...@yahoo.com To: wikla [5]wi...@cs.helsinki.fi Cc: [6]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 3:54 PM Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Any b-guitar repertoire in all re-entrant accepted by all? In my experience, I would say nearly all Sanz definitely *works* with fully re-entrant tuning. I find only one fugue that gives me any problems... Every other piece I have tried so far sounds absolutely great, and makes perfect sense in a fully re-entrant tuning. It takes a little getting used to... Probably the most difficult pieces to play are the ones you have played previously on a modern guitar. The logic of the pieces may prove to be different than you initially thought. But for all that, the logic is generally consistent... Except that one darned fugue! cud __ From: Stuart Walsh [7]s.wa...@ntlworld.com To: wikla [8]wi...@cs.helsinki.fi Cc: [9]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sat, November 20, 2010 5:29:16 PM Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Any b-guitar repertoire in all re-entrant accepted by all? Dear flat-back lutenists, is there any repertoire/composer of baroque guitar that/who without any
