[VIHUELA] 3 short pieces from the Ulm MS for mandore
Nice playing Stuart. I have made both 4 and 5 course mandores (photo on my picture on lute.ning). 4 course for plectrum, 5 course for fingers. A 5 course playing Skene, etc is on several CDs by Rob McKillop - 6 strings using an octave on the 5th as suggested by Donald Gill. Size and appearance derived from the well-known painting by Baugin. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] Re: 3 short pieces from the Ulm MS for mandore
On 08/01/2012 12:48, Monica Hall wrote: The Scottish, Skene mandore MS is more well known but the Ulm MS of French mandore music (of the same time) is very good too. And the pieces are much more carefully notated. Here are a couple of courantes and a gavotte - played on a very small guitar with a string length of 37 cms. Perhaps there were at least two sizes of mandore: the really tiny (c. 30cm string length), four-course mandore (some Ulm stuff, Chancy) , played with a plectrum and a slightly larger, five course instrument ((Skene, Ulm, Gallot) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnC0b9w8QyU Stuart Very nice but what is mandore tuning in this context? Thanks. I don't know what you mean 'context'? I think the tuning of the mandore at the time of its popularity was more or less fixed... apart from the first course. So a four-course mandore was 5-4-5 (e.g.: g-d-g-d) and a five-course instrument was 4-5-4-5 (e.g.: d-g-d-g-d). Of course the actual pitch might be different. But on either four- or five-course instruments the top course could be re-tuned: e.g. a tone lower. But the bottom courses were not re-tuned. So the mandore tuning is quite different from the mandolino tuning in fourths (but not that that difference makes it a different instrument). Stuart Stuart Monica To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] Re: 3 short pieces from the Ulm MS for mandore
- Original Message - From: Stuart Walsh s.wa...@ntlworld.com To: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk Cc: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2012 4:12 PM Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: 3 short pieces from the Ulm MS for mandore On 08/01/2012 12:48, Monica Hall wrote: The Scottish, Skene mandore MS is more well known but the Ulm MS of French mandore music (of the same time) is very good too. And the pieces are much more carefully notated. Here are a couple of courantes and a gavotte - played on a very small guitar with a string length of 37 cms. Perhaps there were at least two sizes of mandore: the really tiny (c. 30cm string length), four-course mandore (some Ulm stuff, Chancy) , played with a plectrum and a slightly larger, five course instrument ((Skene, Ulm, Gallot) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnC0b9w8QyU Stuart Very nice but what is mandore tuning in this context? Thanks. I don't know what you mean 'context'? I think the tuning of the mandore at the time of its popularity was more or less fixed... apart from the first course. So a four-course mandore was 5-4-5 (e.g.: g-d-g-d) and a five-course instrument was 4-5-4-5 (e.g.: d-g-d-g-d). Of course the actual pitch might be different. But on either four- or five-course instruments the top course could be re-tuned: e.g. a tone lower. But the bottom courses were not re-tuned. So the mandore tuning is quite different from the mandolino tuning in fourths (but not that that difference makes it a different instrument). and different from the guitar (and incidentally lute) which almost always has a 3rd somewhere in the series. I wonder if this is because instruments play more chords and counterpoint rather than simple melodic things. Monica Stuart Monica To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] Re: 15th century dance: Anello (lute/gittern duo)
- Original Message - From: Stuart Walsh s.wa...@ntlworld.com To: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk Cc: Lutelist l...@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2012 4:30 PM Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: 15th century dance: Anello (lute/gittern duo) On 08/01/2012 12:53, Monica Hall wrote: - Original Message - From: Stuart Walsh s.wa...@ntlworld.com To: Lute Net l...@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2012 10:19 PM Subject: [LUTE] 15th century dance: Anello (lute/gittern duo) Very nice too - but it seems to me that you could dance to just the single line. The lute does sound a bit bumpy in the recording. Where does the picture come from? Yes, the lute isn't so good! I was wholly focused on the gittern and the rough lute playing maybe makes the gittern sound better. In fact I'm much more confident playing fingerstyle lute than anything with a plectrum. But I do like the sound of a plectrum. It's another colour to play with. There seems to be lots of evidence of lute duos (inc lute and gittern) in the 15th century and it's fascinating to speculate what kind of things they (not the internationally famed virtuosi!) may have played. Maybe dances -just for listening, or for small numbers of dancers? In the arrangement I played, the tune was the top line of the lute part. The top line, the gittern part was composed by Ian Gatiss. (And Ian was very keen to have people evolve their own lines. But that's quite a task!). There is another dance tenor, Giloxia, which is quite a strong tune in itself but Ian nevertheless thought that it would have had a fancier line above and a simple bass part below. I don't know what the issues are! I pinched the picture from google images, which turns out to be from gutenberg thingy, so presumably copyright free. Actually I didn't know that until I looked just now. http://www.clipart-history.com/index.php?id=791pic=9615 And you can see I've cropped out the actual musicians in the image, playing a transverse flute and a drum. I thought -and still think - that this is modern pastiche but the website says its from 1493! Nice picture. Pipe and tabor seems to me more appropriate to dance to. I know there are lots of illustrations of one sort or another of the lute and gittern playing together - but I wonder whether anything so elaborate as three parts with fancy lute parts would really be danced to. but I am not a medieval specialist. I seem to remember that in Mansfield Park when they have a dance one of the servants just plays the violin. We have a tendency today to over egg the pudding. (IMHO). And a happy New Year. Have just returned home from a beautiful candlelit Epiphany Carol Service. No lutes but we did have a rather nice modern setting of the Lute Book Lullaby and some Tallis. Monica Stuart You must have a whole house full of instruments - a veritable museum! All I have is a baroque guitar and a vihuela which is now unplayable, I feel quite deprived. Monica To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] Re: 3 short pieces from the Ulm MS for mandore
I really enjoyed these, Stuart. I'm listening to it for the 3rd time now; can't help but smile with this music. Thanks for posting. Best, Jocelyn From: Stuart Walsh [1]s.wa...@ntlworld.com Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2012 00:06:26 + To: Vihuelalist [2]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [VIHUELA] 3 short pieces from the Ulm MS for mandore The Scottish, Skene mandore MS is more well known but the Ulm MS of French mandore music (of the same time) is very good too. And the pieces are much more carefully notated. Here are a couple of courantes and a gavotte - played on a very small guitar with a string length of 37 cms. Perhaps there were at least two sizes of mandore: the really tiny (c. 30cm string length), four-course mandore (some Ulm stuff, Chancy) , played with a plectrum and a slightly larger, five course instrument ((Skene, Ulm, Gallot) [3]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnC0b9w8QyU Stuart To get on or off this list see list information at [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:s.wa...@ntlworld.com 2. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnC0b9w8QyU 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
