[VIHUELA] Fuenllana
Does anyone have any dates for Fuenllana. I have just come across a source which gives them as c.1500-1579. It seems unlikely to me that he would have lived to be 79... Groves gives fl. 1553-1578. Monica -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] Re: Fuenllana
Well, Orphenica Lyra is 1554 and I'd not think he'd be much younger than around 30 for such a prestigious (and large - ie expensive) publication. So I'd put his date of birth around 1520. I suspect the c 1500 - 1579 means that 1500 is a guess but 1579 is evidenced. 1579 also fits with average adult lifespan of the period of around 60 (ie excluding children with their extremely high early mortality rate). Is there nothing in the extensive prologue, dedication, notes which give some idea of his history? Martyn --- On Wed, 2/1/13, Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote: From: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk Subject: [VIHUELA] Fuenllana To: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Wednesday, 2 January, 2013, 14:33 Does anyone have any dates for Fuenllana. I have just come across a source which gives them as c.1500-1579. It seems unlikely to me that he would have lived to be 79... Groves gives fl. 1553-1578. Monica -- To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] Re: Fuenllana
I don't think there is anything in the prologue - they weren't very worried about things like dates of birth! I agree - 1520 seems more likely for his birth. I think there might be some evidence that he was till alive in 1579. I'm sure I read something to that effect recently. Monica - Original Message - From: [1]Martyn Hodgson To: [2]Vihuelalist ; [3]Monica Hall Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 5:21 PM Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Fuenllana Well, Orphenica Lyra is 1554 and I'd not think he'd be much younger than around 30 for such a prestigious (and large - ie expensive) publication. So I'd put his date of birth around 1520. I suspect the c 1500 - 1579 means that 1500 is a guess but 1579 is evidenced. 1579 also fits with average adult lifespan of the period of around 60 (ie excluding children with their extremely high early mortality rate). Is there nothing in the extensive prologue, dedication, notes which give some idea of his history? Martyn --- On Wed, 2/1/13, Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote: From: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk Subject: [VIHUELA] Fuenllana To: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Wednesday, 2 January, 2013, 14:33 Does anyone have any dates for Fuenllana. I have just come across a source which gives them as c.1500-1579. It seems unlikely to me that he would have lived to be 79... Groves gives fl. 1553-1578. Monica -- To get on or off this list see list information at [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk 2. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] Re: Fuenllana
I know of a recording (I do realize that program notes on Cd's may or may not be accurate) of all works of Fuenllana, by the group Orphenica Lyra, directed by Jose Miguel Moreno. The program notes were written by Ivan Moody. In it, he states that Fuenllana was born in Navalcarnero, in the province of Madrid. He provides no dates for the birth. He also states, he died at some point before 1591 (the dates 1568 and 1579 have been suggested, probably in Madrid. This statement has a footnote, stating a convenient biographical resume of Fuellana may be found in Samuel Rubio: Historiia de la Musica Espanola 2: Desde el ars nova hasta 2600 (Madrid, 1983) pp. 229-230. I hope this helps. ed At 11:40 AM 1/2/2013, Monica Hall wrote: I don't think there is anything in the prologue - they weren't very worried about things like dates of birth! I agree - 1520 seems more likely for his birth. I think there might be some evidence that he was till alive in 1579. I'm sure I read something to that effect recently. Monica - Original Message - From: [1]Martyn Hodgson To: [2]Vihuelalist ; [3]Monica Hall Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 5:21 PM Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Fuenllana Well, Orphenica Lyra is 1554 and I'd not think he'd be much younger than around 30 for such a prestigious (and large - ie expensive) publication. So I'd put his date of birth around 1520. I suspect the c 1500 - 1579 means that 1500 is a guess but 1579 is evidenced. 1579 also fits with average adult lifespan of the period of around 60 (ie excluding children with their extremely high early mortality rate). Is there nothing in the extensive prologue, dedication, notes which give some idea of his history? Martyn --- On Wed, 2/1/13, Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote: From: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk Subject: [VIHUELA] Fuenllana To: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Wednesday, 2 January, 2013, 14:33 Does anyone have any dates for Fuenllana. I have just come across a source which gives them as c.1500-1579. It seems unlikely to me that he would have lived to be 79... Groves gives fl. 1553-1578. Monica -- To get on or off this list see list information at [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk 2. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com voice: (218) 728-1202 http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871ref=name http://www.myspace.com/edslute http://magnatune.com/artists/edward_martin
[VIHUELA] Re: Fuenllana
Dear Monica, List Charles Jacobs, in his edition of Orphenica Lyra (OUP, 1978), says something about Fuenllana's date(s) of death. Apparently there's some problem, because certain documents imply an earlier death, but her daughter latter mentions him as alive at a latter date, or something like that. I don't have this book at hand, but a soon as I can find it, I'll try to find out what it really says. Regards eloy Monica Hall 1/2/13 11:40 AM mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk I don't think there is anything in the prologue - they weren't very worried about things like dates of birth! I agree - 1520 seems more likely for his birth. I think there might be some evidence that he was till alive in 1579. I'm sure I read something to that effect recently. Monica - Original Message - From: [1]Martyn Hodgson To: [2]Vihuelalist ; [3]Monica Hall Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 5:21 PM Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Fuenllana Well, Orphenica Lyra is 1554 and I'd not think he'd be much younger than around 30 for such a prestigious (and large - ie expensive) publication. So I'd put his date of birth around 1520. I suspect the c 1500 - 1579 means that 1500 is a guess but 1579 is evidenced. 1579 also fits with average adult lifespan of the period of around 60 (ie excluding children with their extremely high early mortality rate). Is there nothing in the extensive prologue, dedication, notes which give some idea of his history? Martyn --- On Wed, 2/1/13, Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote: From: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk Subject: [VIHUELA] Fuenllana To: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Wednesday, 2 January, 2013, 14:33 Does anyone have any dates for Fuenllana. I have just come across a source which gives them as c.1500-1579. It seems unlikely to me that he would have lived to be 79... Groves gives fl. 1553-1578. Monica -- To get on or off this list see list information at [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk 2. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] Re: Fuenllana
Alas - I don't have Jacobs book either - too expensive. Trawling through my own library it seems that Fuenllana was employed as a músico de cámera by the Portuguese monarch D. Sebastião in 1574, and therefore he was still alive and active after his service with Isabel de Valois terminated in 1568. 1578 seems a probable death date but I don't think he can have been born in 1500. 1510 or later seems more likely doesn't it. MOnica - Original Message - From: Eloy Cruz eloyc...@gmail.com To: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk Cc: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 6:06 PM Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Fuenllana Dear Monica, List Charles Jacobs, in his edition of Orphenica Lyra (OUP, 1978), says something about Fuenllana's date(s) of death. Apparently there's some problem, because certain documents imply an earlier death, but her daughter latter mentions him as alive at a latter date, or something like that. I don't have this book at hand, but a soon as I can find it, I'll try to find out what it really says. Regards eloy Monica Hall 1/2/13 11:40 AM mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk I don't think there is anything in the prologue - they weren't very worried about things like dates of birth! I agree - 1520 seems more likely for his birth. I think there might be some evidence that he was till alive in 1579. I'm sure I read something to that effect recently. Monica - Original Message - From: [1]Martyn Hodgson To: [2]Vihuelalist ; [3]Monica Hall Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 5:21 PM Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Fuenllana Well, Orphenica Lyra is 1554 and I'd not think he'd be much younger than around 30 for such a prestigious (and large - ie expensive) publication. So I'd put his date of birth around 1520. I suspect the c 1500 - 1579 means that 1500 is a guess but 1579 is evidenced. 1579 also fits with average adult lifespan of the period of around 60 (ie excluding children with their extremely high early mortality rate). Is there nothing in the extensive prologue, dedication, notes which give some idea of his history? Martyn --- On Wed, 2/1/13, Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote: From: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk Subject: [VIHUELA] Fuenllana To: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Wednesday, 2 January, 2013, 14:33 Does anyone have any dates for Fuenllana. I have just come across a source which gives them as c.1500-1579. It seems unlikely to me that he would have lived to be 79... Groves gives fl. 1553-1578. Monica -- To get on or off this list see list information at [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk 2. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] Re: Fuenllana
Feel free to stir...Certainly his 5-course vihuela was tuned to the same intervals as the guitar.. and this seems a bit odd because it is a vihuela without the 1st course rather than without the 6th course. But what about the story that Vicente Espinel added the 5th course? Doisi de Velasco claims to have known Espinel in Madrid. He says is What I have been able to discover is that it (the guitar) is a very ancient instrument in Spain, although having only four strings (I say four, although it should be understood that these may be doubled in unisons and octaves) and Espinel (whom I knew in Madrid) added the fifth course which we call the first. which is also a bit odd. An eye witness nevertheless. Another of life's mysteries. MOnica - Original Message - From: Rob MacKillop robmackil...@gmail.com To: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk Cc: Eloy Cruz eloyc...@gmail.com; Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 7:57 PM Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Fuenllana Can I stir things up by suggesting he was the first to publish 5c 'guitar' music? Rob www.robmackillop.net On 2 Jan 2013, at 19:35, Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote: Alas - I don't have Jacobs book either - too expensive. Trawling through my own library it seems that Fuenllana was employed as a músico de cámera by the Portuguese monarch D. Sebastião in 1574, and therefore he was still alive and active after his service with Isabel de Valois terminated in 1568. 1578 seems a probable death date but I don't think he can have been born in 1500. 1510 or later seems more likely doesn't it. MOnica - Original Message - From: Eloy Cruz eloyc...@gmail.com To: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk Cc: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 6:06 PM Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Fuenllana Dear Monica, List Charles Jacobs, in his edition of Orphenica Lyra (OUP, 1978), says something about Fuenllana's date(s) of death. Apparently there's some problem, because certain documents imply an earlier death, but her daughter latter mentions him as alive at a latter date, or something like that. I don't have this book at hand, but a soon as I can find it, I'll try to find out what it really says. Regards eloy Monica Hall 1/2/13 11:40 AM mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk I don't think there is anything in the prologue - they weren't very worried about things like dates of birth! I agree - 1520 seems more likely for his birth. I think there might be some evidence that he was till alive in 1579. I'm sure I read something to that effect recently. Monica - Original Message - From: [1]Martyn Hodgson To: [2]Vihuelalist ; [3]Monica Hall Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 5:21 PM Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Fuenllana Well, Orphenica Lyra is 1554 and I'd not think he'd be much younger than around 30 for such a prestigious (and large - ie expensive) publication. So I'd put his date of birth around 1520. I suspect the c 1500 - 1579 means that 1500 is a guess but 1579 is evidenced. 1579 also fits with average adult lifespan of the period of around 60 (ie excluding children with their extremely high early mortality rate). Is there nothing in the extensive prologue, dedication, notes which give some idea of his history? Martyn --- On Wed, 2/1/13, Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote: From: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk Subject: [VIHUELA] Fuenllana To: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Wednesday, 2 January, 2013, 14:33 Does anyone have any dates for Fuenllana. I have just come across a source which gives them as c.1500-1579. It seems unlikely to me that he would have lived to be 79... Groves gives fl. 1553-1578. Monica -- To get on or off this list see list information at [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk 2. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] Re: Fuenllana
On 02/01/2013 22:25, Monica Hall wrote: Feel free to stir...Certainly his 5-course vihuela was tuned to the same intervals as the guitar.. and this seems a bit odd because it is a vihuela without the 1st course rather than without the 6th course. But what about the story that Vicente Espinel added the 5th course? Doisi de Velasco claims to have known Espinel in Madrid. He says is What I have been able to discover is that it (the guitar) is a very ancient instrument in Spain, although having only four strings (I say four, although it should be understood that these may be doubled in unisons and octaves) and Espinel (whom I knew in Madrid) added the fifth course which we call the first. which is also a bit odd. An eye witness nevertheless. Another of life's mysteries. MOnica Well, you like a mystery Monica. I've read Susan Herre's piece in the latest Lute News. I don't think she addresses Meucchi's ideas. Anyway, supposing the 'ancient instrument in Spain' is the gittern (maybe that's not right?) how did it get a body makeover and a waist in the 1550s and take off in a completely new direction as the guitar we now know - and yet get re-invented in its old body shape in the 1580s, but now called a mandore? Stuart - Original Message - From: Rob MacKillop robmackil...@gmail.com To: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk Cc: Eloy Cruz eloyc...@gmail.com; Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 7:57 PM Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Fuenllana Can I stir things up by suggesting he was the first to publish 5c 'guitar' music? Rob www.robmackillop.net On 2 Jan 2013, at 19:35, Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote: Alas - I don't have Jacobs book either - too expensive. Trawling through my own library it seems that Fuenllana was employed as a músico de cámera by the Portuguese monarch D. Sebastião in 1574, and therefore he was still alive and active after his service with Isabel de Valois terminated in 1568. 1578 seems a probable death date but I don't think he can have been born in 1500. 1510 or later seems more likely doesn't it. MOnica - Original Message - From: Eloy Cruz eloyc...@gmail.com To: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk Cc: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 6:06 PM Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Fuenllana Dear Monica, List Charles Jacobs, in his edition of Orphenica Lyra (OUP, 1978), says something about Fuenllana's date(s) of death. Apparently there's some problem, because certain documents imply an earlier death, but her daughter latter mentions him as alive at a latter date, or something like that. I don't have this book at hand, but a soon as I can find it, I'll try to find out what it really says. Regards eloy Monica Hall 1/2/13 11:40 AM mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk I don't think there is anything in the prologue - they weren't very worried about things like dates of birth! I agree - 1520 seems more likely for his birth. I think there might be some evidence that he was till alive in 1579. I'm sure I read something to that effect recently. Monica - Original Message - From: [1]Martyn Hodgson To: [2]Vihuelalist ; [3]Monica Hall Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2013 5:21 PM Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Fuenllana Well, Orphenica Lyra is 1554 and I'd not think he'd be much younger than around 30 for such a prestigious (and large - ie expensive) publication. So I'd put his date of birth around 1520. I suspect the c 1500 - 1579 means that 1500 is a guess but 1579 is evidenced. 1579 also fits with average adult lifespan of the period of around 60 (ie excluding children with their extremely high early mortality rate). Is there nothing in the extensive prologue, dedication, notes which give some idea of his history? Martyn --- On Wed, 2/1/13, Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote: From: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk Subject: [VIHUELA] Fuenllana To: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Wednesday, 2 January, 2013, 14:33 Does anyone have any dates for Fuenllana. I have just come across a source which gives them as c.1500-1579. It seems unlikely to me that he would have lived to be 79... Groves gives fl. 1553-1578. Monica -- To get on or off this list see list information at [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk 2. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
