[VIHUELA] Re: Moravsky MS (CZ Brno D189) - a fresh tack! 2
Martyn I am not going to comment in detail on your pathetic attempt to discredit everything that I say. If you think that your rant at the beginning of your message of 14th January, sent to both the vihuela and baroque lute lists, constitutes general politeness you have very strange ideas as to what is good manners. I am now trying to reply to what you have said in your previous message but I am not sure that it is worth the effort. Monica Original Message From: hodgsonmar...@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: 30/01/2018 10:35 To: "mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk", "vihuela@cs. dartmouth.edu" Subj: [VIHUELA] Re: Moravsky MS (CZ Brno D189) - a fresh tack! 2 Dear Monica, I don't usually 'knee-jerk' these things but was truly astonished at your wild reaction (below) to my calm email yesterday in which I had carefully tried to avoid our earlier combative exchanges and present a different (ie non-subjective) approach in a non-confrontational manner - 'a fresh tack'.. I'll also be interested to see what communications you privately sent to me that I've leaked in an open public forum in my mailing of yesterday. As far as I can see, the only intimation to anybody else that you've privately communicated is my opening phrase in this email "As you now know" I have already explained that reading our previous communications has so far clearly failed to influence each other - but just because I disagreed with you doesn't mean I didn't read them! In fact yesterday I raised this very matter and intentionally wrote (see below) "Our exchanges of 'textual analysis' have clearly failed to persuade each other of our respective cases and therefore, to make any progress, another tack is now required: one more forensic perhaps and closer related to contemporary organological, musicological and source evidence." All the quotations I used from you are from your open public mailings to this forum and are taken verbatim and were not edited - perhaps you changed your mind subsequently. Finally, I do think general politeness is important in these exchanges and thus I'll be interested to read of the "torrent of personal abuse" directed towards you - other than, naturally, simply fair comment. regards Martyn __ From: "mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu" To: VihuelaList Cc: Martyn Hodgson Sent: Monday, 29 January 2018, 20:28 Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Moravsky MS (CZ Brno D189) - a fresh tack! Obviously it will take me some time to reply to this message which in part is a response to a message which I sent to Martyn privately. It will be all the more difficult because he has clearly not read any of my messages and has consistently misrepresented everything that I have said in them. I will just say at this juncture that he may be entitled to send his messages to all of the lists if he wishes to but I don't think that he is entitled to send a torrent of personal abuse to any of them. Watch this space! As ever Monica Original Message From: [1]hodgsonmar...@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: 29/01/2018 17:16 To: "[2]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu"<[3]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu> Subj: [VIHUELA] Re: Moravsky MS (CZ Brno D189) - a fresh tack! - Forwarded Message - From: Martyn Hodgson <[4]hodgsonmar...@cs.dartmouth.edu> To: Monica Hall <[5]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>; VihuelaList <[6]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>; Baroque Lute List <[7]baroque-l...@cs.dartmouth.edu> Sent: Monday, 29 January 2018, 17:01 Subject: Moravsky MS (CZ Brno D189) - a fresh tack! Dear Monica, As you now know, I haven't yet replied to your latest open mailings since these had both ended by saying that you 'were going to leave it for now' and I therefore took this as meaning I might soon expect something further. Accordingly, not wishing to respond in a piecemeal and disjointed manner, I deliberately delayed replying and awaited your further thoughts. However, I shall do so now. --- Regarding copying things to other lists, just to be quite clear, I generally copy things to other of Wayne's lists if they're relevant there. Hence why gallichon/mandora stuff (but usually not guitar) can find its way onto the lute lists (or, indeed, elsewhere) - it's not a fiendish plot of any kind! But on with the motley.. --- Our exchanges of 'textual analysis' have clearly failed to persuade each other of our respective cases and therefore, to make any progress, another tack is now required: one more forensic perhaps and closer related to contemporary organological, musicological and s
[VIHUELA] Re: Moravsky MS (CZ Brno D189) - a fresh tack! 2
Dear Monica, I don't usually 'knee-jerk' these things but was truly astonished at your wild reaction (below) to my calm email yesterday in which I had carefully tried to avoid our earlier combative exchanges and present a different (ie non-subjective) approach in a non-confrontational manner - 'a fresh tack'.. I'll also be interested to see what communications you privately sent to me that I've leaked in an open public forum in my mailing of yesterday. As far as I can see, the only intimation to anybody else that you've privately communicated is my opening phrase in this email "As you now know" I have already explained that reading our previous communications has so far clearly failed to influence each other - but just because I disagreed with you doesn't mean I didn't read them! In fact yesterday I raised this very matter and intentionally wrote (see below) "Our exchanges of 'textual analysis' have clearly failed to persuade each other of our respective cases and therefore, to make any progress, another tack is now required: one more forensic perhaps and closer related to contemporary organological, musicological and source evidence." All the quotations I used from you are from your open public mailings to this forum and are taken verbatim and were not edited - perhaps you changed your mind subsequently. Finally, I do think general politeness is important in these exchanges and thus I'll be interested to read of the "torrent of personal abuse" directed towards you - other than, naturally, simply fair comment. regards Martyn __ From: "mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu" To: VihuelaList Cc: Martyn Hodgson Sent: Monday, 29 January 2018, 20:28 Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Moravsky MS (CZ Brno D189) - a fresh tack! Obviously it will take me some time to reply to this message which in part is a response to a message which I sent to Martyn privately. It will be all the more difficult because he has clearly not read any of my messages and has consistently misrepresented everything that I have said in them. I will just say at this juncture that he may be entitled to send his messages to all of the lists if he wishes to but I don't think that he is entitled to send a torrent of personal abuse to any of them. Watch this space! As ever Monica Original Message From: [1]hodgsonmar...@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: 29/01/2018 17:16 To: "[2]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu"<[3]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu> Subj: [VIHUELA] Re: Moravsky MS (CZ Brno D189) - a fresh tack! - Forwarded Message - From: Martyn Hodgson <[4]hodgsonmar...@cs.dartmouth.edu> To: Monica Hall <[5]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>; VihuelaList <[6]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>; Baroque Lute List <[7]baroque-l...@cs.dartmouth.edu> Sent: Monday, 29 January 2018, 17:01 Subject: Moravsky MS (CZ Brno D189) - a fresh tack! Dear Monica, As you now know, I haven't yet replied to your latest open mailings since these had both ended by saying that you 'were going to leave it for now' and I therefore took this as meaning I might soon expect something further. Accordingly, not wishing to respond in a piecemeal and disjointed manner, I deliberately delayed replying and awaited your further thoughts. However, I shall do so now. --- Regarding copying things to other lists, just to be quite clear, I generally copy things to other of Wayne's lists if they're relevant there. Hence why gallichon/mandora stuff (but usually not guitar) can find its way onto the lute lists (or, indeed, elsewhere) - it's not a fiendish plot of any kind! But on with the motley.. --- Our exchanges of 'textual analysis' have clearly failed to persuade each other of our respective cases and therefore, to make any progress, another tack is now required: one more forensic perhaps and closer related to contemporary organological, musicological and source evidence. Firstly though, to summarise our respective positions: - as I understand it from what you have written, your position is that the vast majority (about 98%) of the some 124 works for plucked instruments in this MS are for a six course gytarra and that just three are for a mandora (according to you a twelve course instrument with five fingered courses and seven free basses - you stated that "The mandora has seven unstopped basses" ); - mine is that the 28 pieces notated with a sixth course are for mandora and that the remainder requiring just five courses are principally for gytarra (although, as I was
