[VIHUELA] Re: Corbetta 1639

[DANIEL SHOSKES]

The pdf I have is not bad and there is nothing visible above the bottom line 
(top course) for the N chord. 3 or 5 possible although 5 1 1 1 1 would be a 
nasty stretch (at least for me!)

> On Aug 3, 2018, at 5:36 AM, mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu wrote:
> 
> Has anyone got a decent digital copy of Corbetta's 1639 book?
> 
> His "alfabeto falso" includes a version of Chord N* with the fifth 
> course clearly left unfretted but the note on the first course is 
> unclear. Most people including Pinnell and Gary Boye have interpreted 
> this as being G played at the third fret but the shape of what is 
> actually visible resembles the figure 5 rather than 3 when compared 
> with Chords N3 and N5.
> 
> One version would be - top down
> 
> 3
> 1
> 1
> 1
> 1
> 
> The other
> 
> 5
> 1
> 1
> 1
> 1
> 
> Any thoughts welcome.
> 
> Monica
> 
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: Yet more Re: [VIHUELAR) Re: Moravsky Manuscript AND five course guitar stringing

[DANIEL SHOSKES]

I really appreciate all the comments and feedback. Here is how 2 of the pieces 
sound on baroque guitar in “conventional” french baroque stringing.

https://youtu.be/RuTddcGOLRg <https://youtu.be/RuTddcGOLRg>


> On Jan 7, 2018, at 4:40 PM, mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote:
> 
> 
> It seems that this message and Martyn's which preceded it were sent to 
> the baroque lute list but not to this list. In the interests of 
> continuity I am forwarding my reply with his message below.  Enjoy!
> Original Message
> From: mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
> Date: 07/01/2018 15:58 
> To: , "Daniel Shoskes", 
> "VihuelaList", "Baroque Lute List" l...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> Subj: Re: Yet more Re: [VIHUELAR) Re: Moravsky Manuscript AND five 
> course guitar stringing
> 
> I can't possibly respond to all of this.  You seem to be so muddled 
> that it is difficult to grasp what you actually mean..
> I think your interpretation of the tablature tuning checks is simply 
> wrong. The fact that much of the music does not use the sixth 
> unstopped 
> course,(or for that matter the seven unstopped courses of the mandora) 
> is irrelevant.  The tablature tuning check for the gytara indicates 
> that it has 5 stopped courses and one unstopped bass. You are muddling 
> up two different facets of the manuscript. None of this has any 
> bearing 
> on how the 5-course guitar was strung.
> 
> My analysis of the keys of the pieces is as accurate as I could make 
> in 
> the time available.The pieces which use the sixth course are in C 
> major 
> or flat keys and the ones which do not are almost all in A major, with 
> a few in D major.   The manuscript was obviously copied over a period 
> of time.  The pieces from f.76v form a new section with pieces 
> numbered 
> 1-56, probably copied at a later date.  The manuscript is a very 
> complex document.
> 
> You also seem to be confused about Stradivarius. It is not clear 
> whether these instruments are lute shaped or figure of 8 shaped. The 
> surviving patterns are of the neck and pegboxes only. The stringing 
> instructions for the one of them indicate that the high octave strings 
> are on the thumb side of the course.  
> 
> I will have to leave it there.
> 
> As ever
> Monica
> 
> Original Message
> From: hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
> Date: 07/01/2018 14:48 
> To: "Monica Hall", "Daniel Shoskes"
>  com>, "VihuelaList", "Baroque Lute List"
> 
> Subj: Yet more Re: [VIHUELAR) Re: Moravsky Manuscript AND five course 
> guitar stringing
> 
> Dear Monica.
> My responses are interposed below in bold, new roman and italic for 
> clear differentiation (sadly, though, not in my preferred typeface for 
> the others on the list version which only goes to them in standard 
> typeface and no spacing but, from what Wayne tells me, it'll reach you 
> with correct typeface etc)
> I think we must still agree to disagree about much of 
> this!..
> Best wishes,
> Martyn
>  From: "mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk" 
> To: hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk; Daniel Shoskes ; 
> VihuelaList  
> Sent: Saturday, 6 January 2018, 16:41
> Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Further to Re: Moravsky Manuscript AND five 
> course guitar stringing
> 
> Unfortunately the folio numbers are not very clear in the pdf. Some of 
> the pages seem to have been cropped on the right- hand side when the 
> film was made and the recto and verso of each folio is on a single 
> page 
> of the pdf.-[MH: Yes - it's a shame about this]-   I will try to refer 
> to the correct ones.
> To recapFolio 48r is headed “Fundamenta Gytarra”. -[MH: Indeed, and 
> not 
> as just 'Cytarra' (or Chytarra) as correctly pointed out in my last]
> - The tablature checks indicate that this instrument has five stopped 
> courses and one additional unstopped bass course. Folio 48v is headed 
> “Accordo Gytarra et Mandora”. -[MH: This is an incorrect assumption. 
> The overwhelming bulk of pieces of pieces in this MS are clearly 
> written for just a five course instrument  (see my telling note 
> earlier 
> about the transcription for a five course instrument  - I naturally 
> suggest for gytarra for this version of the same (Losy?) 
> piece presented earlier for a six course instrument, the mandora).-You 
> are right – I agree that these are two different instruments. The 
> Gytarra has five 
> stopped courses and one unstopped bass as shown in the first section 
> of 
> the tablature.  -
> {MH: No, you've got this mixed up, as explained earlier and again in 
> this mail. The gytarra has five courses, the madora six. The theor

[VIHUELA] Re: Moravsky Manuscript

[DANIEL SHOSKES]

Thanks for all your insights Monica!

> On Jan 4, 2018, at 4:59 AM, mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote:
> 
> Updating it yet again - I keep getting interrupted - but the tuning 
> chart seems to indicate that the 5th course is tuned in unison with the 
> third course stopped at the 2nd fret which would make it re-entrant.
> Monica
> 
> Original Message
> From: mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
> Date: 04/01/2018 9:51 
> To: "VihuelaList"
> Subj: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Moravsky Manuscript
> 
> Updating my previous message - and having looked more carefully at the 
> manuscript I am not sure that all the music in tablature is for 5-
> course guitar. The pieces on p.50-61 seem to require an unstopped 6th 
> course and one piece on p.91 requires 5 open corse. On p.97 there is a 
> table of alfabeto chords and a tuning chart apparently for 5-course 
> guitar.
> 
> Original Message
> From: mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
> Date: 04/01/2018 9:48 
> To: "VihuelaList"
> Subj: [VIHUELA] Re: Moravsky Manuscript
> 
> 
> 
> I had a bit more time to look at this - I actually have a pdf of it 
> already. It is (or was) in the 
> Moravské zemské muzeum in Brno in the Czech Republic.
> 
> I don't think we can assume that all the music is by Losy or that all 
> of it was originally composed for guitar. I never had time to look at 
> all the pieces - about 50 pages of them.  Maybe one day.
> Monica
> 
> 
> 
> Original Message
> From: dshos...@mac.com
> Date: 04/01/2018 0:17 
> To: 
> Cc: "VihuelaList"
> Subj: [VIHUELA] Re: Moravsky Manuscript
> 
> Sadly the only info is what the pdf file contains. One piece that 
> mentions “Logi”. A couple pieces with lute concordances by other 
> composers.
> 
>> On Jan 3, 2018, at 3:27 PM, mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote:
>> 
>> The music in tablature appears to be for 5-course guitar.  There are 
> a 
>> few 5-part chords which could be strummed but it seems to be mainly 
> in 
>> lute style and perhaps mid 18th century. How do we know that the 
> music 
>> is actually by Losy? Which library owns it today?
>> The rest seems to be for mandora or gallichon.  Martyn may know more 
>> about it if he has read this.
>> 
>> Monica
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Original Message
>> From: dshos...@mac.com
>> Date: 03/01/2018 19:02 
>> To: "WALSH STUART"
>> Cc: "VihuelaList", "Monica Hall"
>> 
>> Subj: [VIHUELA] Re: Moravsky Manuscript
>> 
>> Sorry, let’s try a dropbox: 
>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/oaqfczqgfio4gao/Losy-GuitareEtMandore.pdf?dl=0
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> <https://www.dropbox.com/s/oaqfczqgfio4gao/Losy-GuitareEtMandore.pdf?dl=0>
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jan 3, 2018, at 1:57 PM, WALSH STUART  
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> On 1/3/2018 5:07 PM, DANIEL SHOSKES wrote:
>>>> I’ve come across the Moravsky manuscript which is an 
>> interesting mix of bandora, baroque guitar, “6 string/courseâ
> â‚
>> ¬Â guitar and other works in standard notation. Much music of Losy 
>> (Logy).
>>>> 
>>>> A link is here: http://www.classicalguitardelcamp.com/viewtopic.php?t=67271
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> <http://www.classicalguitardelcamp.com/viewtopic.php?t=67271>
>>> 
>>> I get the following message:
>>> 
>>> You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached 
>> to this post.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> If anyone has info on the Ms, I’d like to ask the following:
>>>> 
>>>> 1) On page 48 there is a page of tuning for guitar and mandora. 
>> While note values aren't given for the guitar the sixth course for 
> the 
>> mandora is a G and that seems to work for the guitar pieces. Is 
> there 
>> evidence for a 6 course guitar that Losy composed for? I've tried 
> them 
>> on my Romantic guitar just playing the E string stopped at the 3rd 
>> fret.
>>>> 
>>>> 2) Any sources for the tuning that Losy used? Switching between 
> the 
>> Romatic guitar and my baroque guitar in re-entrant tuning some 
> pieces 
>> seem better suited to one of the other.
>>>> 
>>>> 3) How clear are the attributions to Losy? I did find one Rondeau 
>> that says Logi but appears in the Haslemere lute MS attributed to 
> Weiss 
>> and in another attributed to von Bohrenfels.
>>>> 
>>>> 4) None of the guitar works have strumming indications. All 
> plucked 
>> or would the performance practice to be strum away?
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks
>>>> 
>>>> Danny
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> 
>>>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>>>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ---
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

[VIHUELA] Re: Moravsky Manuscript

[DANIEL SHOSKES]

Sadly the only info is what the pdf file contains. One piece that mentions 
“Logi”. A couple pieces with lute concordances by other composers.

> On Jan 3, 2018, at 3:27 PM, mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote:
> 
> The music in tablature appears to be for 5-course guitar.  There are a 
> few 5-part chords which could be strummed but it seems to be mainly in 
> lute style and perhaps mid 18th century. How do we know that the music 
> is actually by Losy? Which library owns it today?
> The rest seems to be for mandora or gallichon.  Martyn may know more 
> about it if he has read this.
> 
> Monica
> 
> 
> 
> Original Message
> From: dshos...@mac.com
> Date: 03/01/2018 19:02 
> To: "WALSH STUART"
> Cc: "VihuelaList", "Monica Hall"
> 
> Subj: [VIHUELA] Re: Moravsky Manuscript
> 
> Sorry, let’s try a dropbox: 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/oaqfczqgfio4gao/Losy-GuitareEtMandore.pdf?dl=0
> <https://www.dropbox.com/s/oaqfczqgfio4gao/Losy-GuitareEtMandore.pdf?dl=0>
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jan 3, 2018, at 1:57 PM, WALSH STUART  
> wrote:
>> 
>> On 1/3/2018 5:07 PM, DANIEL SHOSKES wrote:
>>> I’ve come across the Moravsky manuscript which is an 
> interesting mix of bandora, baroque guitar, “6 string/courseââ‚
> ¬Â guitar and other works in standard notation. Much music of Losy 
> (Logy).
>>> 
>>> A link is here: http://www.classicalguitardelcamp.com/viewtopic.php?t=67271
> <http://www.classicalguitardelcamp.com/viewtopic.php?t=67271>
>> 
>> I get the following message:
>> 
>> You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached 
> to this post.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> If anyone has info on the Ms, I’d like to ask the following:
>>> 
>>> 1) On page 48 there is a page of tuning for guitar and mandora. 
> While note values aren't given for the guitar the sixth course for the 
> mandora is a G and that seems to work for the guitar pieces. Is there 
> evidence for a 6 course guitar that Losy composed for? I've tried them 
> on my Romantic guitar just playing the E string stopped at the 3rd 
> fret.
>>> 
>>> 2) Any sources for the tuning that Losy used? Switching between the 
> Romatic guitar and my baroque guitar in re-entrant tuning some pieces 
> seem better suited to one of the other.
>>> 
>>> 3) How clear are the attributions to Losy? I did find one Rondeau 
> that says Logi but appears in the Haslemere lute MS attributed to Weiss 
> and in another attributed to von Bohrenfels.
>>> 
>>> 4) None of the guitar works have strumming indications. All plucked 
> or would the performance practice to be strum away?
>>> 
>>> Thanks
>>> 
>>> Danny
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> 
>>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>> 
> 
> 
> --
> 
> 

[VIHUELA] Re: Moravsky Manuscript

[DANIEL SHOSKES]

Sorry, let’s try a dropbox: 
https://www.dropbox.com/s/oaqfczqgfio4gao/Losy-GuitareEtMandore.pdf?dl=0 
<https://www.dropbox.com/s/oaqfczqgfio4gao/Losy-GuitareEtMandore.pdf?dl=0>


> On Jan 3, 2018, at 1:57 PM, WALSH STUART  wrote:
> 
> On 1/3/2018 5:07 PM, DANIEL SHOSKES wrote:
>> I’ve come across the Moravsky manuscript which is an interesting mix 
>> of bandora, baroque guitar, “6 string/course” guitar and other 
>> works in standard notation. Much music of Losy (Logy).
>> 
>> A link is here: http://www.classicalguitardelcamp.com/viewtopic.php?t=67271 
>> <http://www.classicalguitardelcamp.com/viewtopic.php?t=67271>
> 
> I get the following message:
> 
> You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this 
> post.
> 
> 
> 
>> 
>> If anyone has info on the Ms, I’d like to ask the following:
>> 
>> 1) On page 48 there is a page of tuning for guitar and mandora. While note 
>> values aren't given for the guitar the sixth course for the mandora is a G 
>> and that seems to work for the guitar pieces. Is there evidence for a 6 
>> course guitar that Losy composed for? I've tried them on my Romantic guitar 
>> just playing the E string stopped at the 3rd fret.
>> 
>> 2) Any sources for the tuning that Losy used? Switching between the Romatic 
>> guitar and my baroque guitar in re-entrant tuning some pieces seem better 
>> suited to one of the other.
>> 
>> 3) How clear are the attributions to Losy? I did find one Rondeau that says 
>> Logi but appears in the Haslemere lute MS attributed to Weiss and in another 
>> attributed to von Bohrenfels.
>> 
>> 4) None of the guitar works have strumming indications. All plucked or would 
>> the performance practice to be strum away?
>> 
>> Thanks
>> 
>> Danny
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>> 
> 
> 
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> 


--

[VIHUELA] Moravsky Manuscript

[DANIEL SHOSKES]

I’ve come across the Moravsky manuscript which is an interesting mix of 
bandora, baroque guitar, “6 string/course” guitar and other works in 
standard notation. Much music of Losy (Logy). 

A link is here: http://www.classicalguitardelcamp.com/viewtopic.php?t=67271 


If anyone has info on the Ms, I’d like to ask the following:

1) On page 48 there is a page of tuning for guitar and mandora. While note 
values aren't given for the guitar the sixth course for the mandora is a G and 
that seems to work for the guitar pieces. Is there evidence for a 6 course 
guitar that Losy composed for? I've tried them on my Romantic guitar just 
playing the E string stopped at the 3rd fret. 

2) Any sources for the tuning that Losy used? Switching between the Romatic 
guitar and my baroque guitar in re-entrant tuning some pieces seem better 
suited to one of the other.

3) How clear are the attributions to Losy? I did find one Rondeau that says 
Logi but appears in the Haslemere lute MS attributed to Weiss and in another 
attributed to von Bohrenfels.

4) None of the guitar works have strumming indications. All plucked or would 
the performance practice to be strum away?

Thanks

Danny


--

To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: Notation software recommendations?

[DANIEL SHOSKES]

I run Fronimo and Django on a Mac using VMware Fusion and it also is a good 
solution.

> On Jul 20, 2017, at 7:21 PM, Nelson, Jocelyn  wrote:
> 
>   Thanks; I also see that the Fuenllana solos are there, which is great,
>   but not the songs.
> 
>   Again, this is another designed for PC or Windows. Does anyone find
>   success using it with supported systems as they show on the Fandango
>   site? [1]http://fandango.musickshandmade.com/pages/fandango​
> 
>   Since I'm using my university's computer (and my dept will pay for it),
>   I'm checking in with my IT folks about Parallels, which Rob
>   suggested, to make sure it's approved.
> 
>   I really appreciate all this quick help, thanks!
> 
>   Jocelyn
> __
> 
>   From: Azalais 
>   Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2017 1:09 PM
>   To: Nelson, Jocelyn
>   Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Notation software recommendations?
> 
>   ps.  I just checked the Fandango library and the Fuenllana pieces are
>   not there...  yet.  sorry.
>   On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 1:02 PM, Azalais <[2]azal...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>   Fandango (Formerly known as Django)  Is excellent and also gives you
>   access to an extensive library of pieces.
>   It also allows you to import midi files,  and allows for tweaking the
>   string tuning, staves, and instrument configuration to suit your
>   tablature preferences. (There are also interesting fonts and glyphs for
>   making the sheets look very much like the original facsimiles, or
>   standard notation (or both).  The author and many members of this group
>   use it, so help is always available too.  [In fact, I would guess that
>   the Fuenllana pieces are already in the library for immediate download!
>   [3]http://fandango.musickshandmade.com/
> 
>   On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 12:51 PM, Nelson, Jocelyn <[4]nels...@ecu.edu>
>   wrote:
> 
> Does Fronimo work on mac? I used it some years ago on a PC, but I'm
> using a mac now.
> J
> 
> From: Rob MacKillop <[5]robmackil...@gmail.com>
> Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2017 12:47 PM
> To: Nelson, Jocelyn
> Cc: Vihuelalist
> Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Notation software recommendations?
> Hi Jocelyn,
> Sibelius can't automatically show minims (half notes) or longer. To
> do so requires a lot of palaver, and even then never looks good. In
> short, it's a pain.
> Why not try Fronimo? It's cheapish, has a support forum populated by
> lute and baroque guitar players, and does automatic conversion to
> standard notation. Lots of nice fonts too, and has
> four-five-six-course tab staves to choose from.
> Rob MacKillop
>> On 20 Jul 2017, at 17:27, Nelson, Jocelyn <[6]nels...@ecu.edu>
> wrote:
>> 
>>  Hi Everyone,
>> 
>>  Does anyone on the list recommend any particular brand of
> notation
>>  software for our early guitar purposes? I'm transcribing the
> Fuenllana
>>  guitar songs for myself (on 4-course) and a singer to perform in
>>  September. So far I'm looking at Guitar
>>  Pro: [1][7]https://www.guitar-pro.com/en/index.php?pg=home​
> because it
> 
>>  converts tab into standard notation and I'm not sure whether
>   Sibelius
>>  does that. I'd like my score to have both tablature and standard
>>  notation.
>> 
>>  What notation software brands have worked best for you?
>> 
>>  Many thanks and happy summer,
>> 
>>  Jocelyn
>> 
>>  Jocelyn Nelson, DMA
>>  Teaching Assistant Professor
>>  Early Guitar, Music History
>>  Lute Society of America Board Member
>>  506 School of Music
>>  East Carolina University
>>  [8]252-328-1255 Office
>>  [9]252-328-6258 Fax
>>  [10]nels...@ecu.edu
>> 
>>  --
>> 
>> References
>> 
>>  1. [11]https://www.guitar-pro.com/en/index.php?pg=home
>> 
>> 
>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>> [12]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> 
>   --
> 
> References
> 
>   1. http://fandango.musickshandmade.com/pages/fandango
>   2. mailto:azal...@gmail.com
>   3. http://fandango.musickshandmade.com/
>   4. mailto:nels...@ecu.edu
>   5. mailto:robmackil...@gmail.com
>   6. mailto:nels...@ecu.edu
>   7. https://www.guitar-pro.com/en/index.php?pg=home
>   8. tel:252-328-1255
>   9. tel:252-328-6258
>  10. mailto:nels...@ecu.edu
>  11. https://www.guitar-pro.com/en/index.php?pg=home
>  12. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> 

[VIHUELA] Re: New recording of Bartolotti

[DANIEL SHOSKES]

Here is an iTunes link: 
https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/music-for-a-queen/id907266928


On Sep 25, 2014, at 10:06 AM, Monica Hall  wrote:

>   The Swedish lutenist Fredrik Bock has just released a very nice CD of
>   music from Bartolotti's Secondo Libro.  It's on the Swedish label Lawo
>   LWC 1065.
> 
>   Monicaq
> 
>   --
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html